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View Full Version : Will Kobe accept being second fiddle again?



NYSpirit1
08-09-2012, 11:38 PM
Now that Howard is a Laker, it seems that Kobe (if he gets it) will have another ring with an asterisk. With this trade, he's so far from Jordan at this point now. To have two different versions of your career be muddled by having a larger star big man, doesn't make you a top 5 player of all-time.

Do you think he will be able to accept being second fiddle? Had the Lakers not gotten Nash, I believe he would've been first option, but when you see what Nash did for his big men in Phoenix, I don't think Kobe will have the ball all that often.

I see his scoring average dropping down to 18 PPG and it's hard seeing him accept that.

Nash will have the ball in his hands full time and Gasol/Howard will need to get their touches.

Whatever the case, I think Kobe will play a supporting role in a championship this year if they get one.

C-Style
08-09-2012, 11:39 PM
haha U MAD! 3 FINALS MVP

lakers4sho
08-09-2012, 11:39 PM
:bla:

Avenged
08-09-2012, 11:40 PM
:dance: :dance: :dance:

Lakerhead4ever
08-09-2012, 11:41 PM
lol

NYKnicksAllDay
08-09-2012, 11:42 PM
Kobe will still average close to 25.

socalpkrbkr
08-09-2012, 11:44 PM
:laugh:
*Asterisk*

Haters gonna hate!

Chacarron
08-09-2012, 11:44 PM
:dance:

NYKnicksAllDay
08-09-2012, 11:46 PM
Do you think Kobe gives a **** if anyone puts a damn asterisk next to one of his titles? He just wants more championships. I doubt he gives a **** what anyone else thinks.

NYKnicksAllDay
08-09-2012, 11:46 PM
It wouldn't deserve an asterisk anyway.

socalpkrbkr
08-09-2012, 11:48 PM
Do you think Kobe gives a **** if anyone puts a damn asterisk next to one of his titles? He just wants more championships. I doubt he gives a **** what anyone else thinks.

Truth!

itscooljazz
08-09-2012, 11:49 PM
:facepalm: stop reaching bro!!!

Jarvo
08-09-2012, 11:49 PM
Omg how many Lakers threads we got now?

StinkEye
08-09-2012, 11:50 PM
he's the 3rd most important guy in the Lakers' lineup.

NYSpirit1
08-09-2012, 11:50 PM
Do you think Kobe gives a **** if anyone puts a damn asterisk next to one of his titles? He just wants more championships. I doubt he gives a **** what anyone else thinks.

Yes I do actually. It really bothered him when everyone said Shaq was the man on the Lakers.

You could tell when he won the first one without Shaq and then bragged about the second one having one more than Shaq.

Don't get it mixed up. Kobe wants to be the man on his team, which is why Howard didn't want to come here last year when Kobe reached out to him on his cell.

And it's going to be very hard for him to be the man with Nash and Howad on the team.

Gibby23
08-09-2012, 11:50 PM
lol Knicks signed Amare!!

KingOf215
08-09-2012, 11:52 PM
The Lakers have always been better with Kobe as Robin, rather than Batman.

Gibby23
08-09-2012, 11:53 PM
Yes I do actually. It really bothered him when everyone said Shaq was the man on the Lakers.

You could tell when he won the first one without Shaq and then bragged about the second one having one more than Shaq.

Don't get it mixed up. Kobe wants to be the man on his team, which is why Howard didn't want to come here last year when Kobe reached out to him on his cell.

And you want to see the Knicks win a ring.... lol,,, they won't.. How does that feel? Make a thread about it... Will knicks fans accept not winning a championship? Oh, wait, they do every year..... But you have Amare...

D12 fan
08-09-2012, 11:53 PM
lol Knicks signed Amare!!

:laugh::laugh::laugh::guns::guns::guns::burn:

Raph12
08-09-2012, 11:54 PM
If LA wins before Kobe retires, I have a hard time believing he'll average less than 20ppg and be anything less than instrumental in the team's results... He'll have been a #1/2 option on 6 championship teams, not may guys can say that.

Does Kareem get an asterisk for the rings he won with Magic? I don't think so.

Losoway
08-09-2012, 11:54 PM
where does it say howard is a laker

koberulesall
08-09-2012, 11:54 PM
how can the best player in the league thats about to collect his 6th ring be second fiddle here comes all the hate I LOVE IT hahahahahahha!!!

Ill21
08-09-2012, 11:54 PM
I love these threads

Jenceman
08-09-2012, 11:56 PM
He mother****ing mad

Jint.
08-09-2012, 11:57 PM
Dwight is not a 1st option.. doesnt create his own shot

Gagan136
08-09-2012, 11:58 PM
18 ppg is a little off

AsiandudePH
08-09-2012, 11:59 PM
Asterisk? Why? Because superstars joined team? Really? :facepalm:

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-09-2012, 11:59 PM
Now that Howard is a Laker, it seems that Kobe (if he gets it) will have another ring with an asterisk. With this trade, he's so far from Jordan at this point now. To have two different versions of your career be muddled by having a larger star big man, doesn't make you a top 5 player of all-time.

Do you think he will be able to accept being second fiddle? Had the Lakers not gotten Nash, I believe he would've been first option, but when you see what Nash did for his big men in Phoenix, I don't think Kobe will have the ball all that often.

I see his scoring average dropping down to 18 PPG and it's hard seeing him accept that.

Nash will have the ball in his hands full time and Gasol/Howard will need to get their touches.

Whatever the case, I think Kobe will play a supporting role in a championship this year if they get one.

Really dude Kobe having asterisk on his rings lol what did he take steroids?

Really stop hating man Kobe isn't Jordan never will be but he is damn close
He will go down as a top 5 player ever hell I'll say top 3 (not 1 tho) and will be the greatest laker to ever live

b@llhog24
08-10-2012, 12:01 AM
See my username. :D

rex.reyesiii
08-10-2012, 12:01 AM
...Or he could just play like LeBron.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/19/phil-jackson-says-he-wanted-kobe-to-play-more-like-lebron/

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-10-2012, 12:09 AM
The Lakers have always been better with Kobe as Robin, rather than Batman.

2009-2010 lakers championships say hi

Aust
08-10-2012, 12:20 AM
:dance:

JNA17
08-10-2012, 12:22 AM
Kobe's mind: "championships...cookies...MORE COOKIES=MORE CHAMPIONSHIPS!...IM TALKING ABOUT STOMACH GROWLING!"

I think Kobe and true lakers fans everywhere can care less lol.

Raph12
08-10-2012, 12:23 AM
How do you define Robin? Dwight is the better player, but as long as Kobe is the first option, he won't care.

CyborgMushroom
08-10-2012, 12:27 AM
U Mad, He Mad, She Mad, Dad's Mad, Erybody Mad.

CyborgMushroom
08-10-2012, 12:30 AM
Kobe is fine with it I am sure. The team is better, and has a really good shot at a title, you have to be happy with that. And it isn't like these guys are bad attitude kind of guys, Nash has always been a stud on and off and etc. The pieces will fit nicely.

beliges
08-10-2012, 12:35 AM
LOL...some of this is so funny. Kobe seems to get people titles. Hes done it throughout his entire career. Shaq never won a thing until teaming up with Kobe. Then boom he gets 3 in a row. Pau had never won a playoff game before teaming up with Kobe. Then boom! He gets 2 in a row. Now Dwight has never won anything before teaming up with Kobe, a and now we'll see what happens. Kobe's got a great shot to get his 6th and maybe even more than that before his career is done.

rickshaw
08-10-2012, 12:38 AM
His rings with Shaq don't have an asterisk, neither will one with Howard. He will never be Jordan, but neither has anyone else. A 6th ring does nothing to put him equal with MJ. If that's the criteria then Bill Russell is your GOAT and you can't refute that because 11 rings LOLZ.

BKdoubleStacker
08-10-2012, 12:41 AM
Now that Howard is a Laker, it seems that Kobe (if he gets it) will have another ring with an asterisk. With this trade, he's so far from Jordan at this point now. To have two different versions of your career be muddled by having a larger star big man, doesn't make you a top 5 player of all-time.

Do you think he will be able to accept being second fiddle? Had the Lakers not gotten Nash, I believe he would've been first option, but when you see what Nash did for his big men in Phoenix, I don't think Kobe will have the ball all that often.

I see his scoring average dropping down to 18 PPG and it's hard seeing him accept that.

Nash will have the ball in his hands full time and Gasol/Howard will need to get their touches.

Whatever the case, I think Kobe will play a supporting role in a championship this year if they get one.


hahaha tell em why you mad though

we are the heat of 2012-2013

Kobe was never going to be jordan anyway, so it doesnt matter. Outside of some noobs, who really argues this??

I guess Jordan had a **** team too huh? Scottie who?

beliges
08-10-2012, 12:43 AM
His rings with Shaq don't have an asterisk, neither will one with Howard. He will never be Jordan, but neither has anyone else. A 6th ring does nothing to put him equal with MJ. If that's the criteria then Bill Russell is your GOAT and you can't refute that because 11 rings LOLZ.

Kobe's Kobe and Jordan's Jordan. DOnt need to compare whether or not Kobe will be better than MJ. However, with a 6th ring, I would have to put Kobe among the top 3 ever. One thing he has proven time and time again, you give him a good team, and no doubt hes winning a title.

Gritz
08-10-2012, 12:48 AM
Lol Howard out in the street dougie'n right now

cssdmark
08-10-2012, 12:52 AM
Damn I am hating, all the other teams love to try and hand LA championships by trading them the best players. Damn this is like the economy when republicans are in office the rich get richer and $%^& everybody else. They just hired that GM in Orlando, I would fire him right after he made the trade, no I would have fired him when he mentioned making that trade. What did Orlando get again, two bags of chips and a fish taco.

Im_in_Mia_bish
08-10-2012, 12:54 AM
if kobe plays like how he did in the olympics, he will hold them back. lol

hopefully he continues to ballhog and less chances for nash to do anything.

seikou8
08-10-2012, 12:57 AM
Howard came to Kobe and Kobe will still be the first option buddy don't know what you are smoking

dalton749
08-10-2012, 12:57 AM
so gay that because kobe was lucky enough to start his career on the best franchise in basketball he's aloud to have super teams but because lebron got drafted to the worst team in the league he's the bad guy for having to go somewhere that can actually bring in talent to have a fair chance.

popo85
08-10-2012, 12:58 AM
2nd fiddle to who? Howard's job will be to anchor the defense, block shots, rebound and dunk everytime he gets an open look

BKdoubleStacker
08-10-2012, 01:06 AM
so gay that because kobe was lucky enough to start his career on the best franchise in basketball he's aloud to have super teams but because lebron got drafted to the worst team in the league he's the bad guy for having to go somewhere that can actually bring in talent to have a fair chance.

yea because no one bashes kobe right? especially on these forums?

beliges
08-10-2012, 01:09 AM
so gay that because kobe was lucky enough to start his career on the best franchise in basketball he's aloud to have super teams but because lebron got drafted to the worst team in the league he's the bad guy for having to go somewhere that can actually bring in talent to have a fair chance.

Yea but Kobe never left to join forces with a previous champion. None of the great players Kobes ever played with had won championships before playing with him. Now, he has the opportunity to do the same for Nash and Dwight.

JJ_JKidd
08-10-2012, 01:10 AM
Now that Howard is a Laker, it seems that Kobe (if he gets it) will have another ring with an asterisk. With this trade, he's so far from Jordan at this point now. To have two different versions of your career be muddled by having a larger star big man, doesn't make you a top 5 player of all-time.

Do you think he will be able to accept being second fiddle? Had the Lakers not gotten Nash, I believe he would've been first option, but when you see what Nash did for his big men in Phoenix, I don't think Kobe will have the ball all that often.

I see his scoring average dropping down to 18 PPG and it's hard seeing him accept that.

Nash will have the ball in his hands full time and Gasol/Howard will need to get their touches.

Whatever the case, I think Kobe will play a supporting role in a championship this year if they get one.

:facepalm:

So Lebron has two asterisks bec he had Wade and Bosh?

CHRIST GROW UP!

brucejenner
08-10-2012, 01:16 AM
Now that Howard is a Laker, it seems that Kobe (if he gets it) will have another ring with an asterisk. With this trade, he's so far from Jordan at this point now. To have two different versions of your career be muddled by having a larger star big man, doesn't make you a top 5 player of all-time.

Do you think he will be able to accept being second fiddle? Had the Lakers not gotten Nash, I believe he would've been first option, but when you see what Nash did for his big men in Phoenix, I don't think Kobe will have the ball all that often.

I see his scoring average dropping down to 18 PPG and it's hard seeing him accept that.

Nash will have the ball in his hands full time and Gasol/Howard will need to get their touches.

Whatever the case, I think Kobe will play a supporting role in a championship this year if they get one.

Dude, every thread you post in is hate/jealousy filled. Get over your insecurity about Los Angeles, Bryant, Howard, and the Lakers.

AndyfromNeptune
08-10-2012, 01:42 AM
Can we bump this thread after the Lakers win a championship this year?

AndyfromNeptune
08-10-2012, 01:43 AM
Also, as a Knicks fan, I am so excited to see the Lakers play the Knicks on Christmas Day.

It should be a great matchup.

BKLYNpigeon
08-10-2012, 01:54 AM
kobe is not 24 years old anymore, I dont think he needs to make a name for hims self anymore or if he cares.

TeamOfTheDecade
08-10-2012, 02:05 AM
so gay that because kobe was lucky enough to start his career on the best franchise in basketball he's aloud to have super teams but because lebron got drafted to the worst team in the league he's the bad guy for having to go somewhere that can actually bring in talent to have a fair chance.

LeBron is the bad guy because of the way he did it. Dan Gilbert put his faith in LeBron to sign back with Cleveland. To both have an HOUR LONG SPECIAL called the decision and to throw a big celebration party acting like you have already won it all. Predict to winning 8 to etc. championships after he just tore a hole in the heart of Cleveland makes him the BAD guy.

Did you also say, aloud? First of all Kobe wasn't ALLOWED to have CP3 on his team or do you not remember that? The infamous veto

Thanks for the hate, means we are doing something right. Lakers for life.

albertajaysfan
08-10-2012, 02:12 AM
He wants more rings than Jordan. I don't think he cares about what option he is. Plus Howard is not some offensive juggernaut. I would argue that Bynum has a more polished offensive game actually. Five years ago he might have cared now he just wants to win.

Either way bringing in Nash is what takes the ball out of his hands. Which will help him stay healthier over the course of the season because he no longer has to run the entire offence. Which will actually help his overall numbers.

The real loser I think in all of this might be Gasol unless he can find his role better then last year.

hidalgo
08-10-2012, 02:12 AM
he wasn't allowed to have cp3 cause this was rigged all along, the better option

basketfan4life
08-10-2012, 02:48 AM
People are really confused. Dwight is a better player than Kobe, but he is not better because of his scoring potential, Kobe>Dwight offensively, but Dwight >> Kobe defensively, hence Kobe will be the first option on offense, that keeps him happy.

Zefflin
08-10-2012, 03:55 AM
And it's going to be very hard for him to be the man with Nash and Howad on the team.

Oh it is??? hahahah

:dance:

hidalgo
08-10-2012, 04:05 AM
Yea but Kobe never left to join forces with a previous champion. None of the great players Kobes ever played with had won championships before playing with him. Now, he has the opportunity to do the same for Nash and Dwight.
no, they're doing it for him. that roster would win the title without KB, it's ridiculous. but OMG Stern did us soooooooo wrong! instead of cp3 you get Dwight Nash & Jamison, that's what Stern's plan was for LA. not a Laker fan alive would change it now. ha so pre meditated. but OMG wait, it's not a conspiracy if it goes our way like ALWAYS

fresh prince
08-10-2012, 04:06 AM
Now that Howard is a Laker, it seems that Kobe (if he gets it) will have another ring with an asterisk. With this trade, he's so far from Jordan at this point now. To have two different versions of your career be muddled by having a larger star big man, doesn't make you a top 5 player of all-time.

Do you think he will be able to accept being second fiddle? Had the Lakers not gotten Nash, I believe he would've been first option, but when you see what Nash did for his big men in Phoenix, I don't think Kobe will have the ball all that often.

I see his scoring average dropping down to 18 PPG and it's hard seeing him accept that.

Nash will have the ball in his hands full time and Gasol/Howard will need to get their touches.

Whatever the case, I think Kobe will play a supporting role in a championship this year if they get one.

:laugh2: I was taking you seriously till that...........

STL Don
08-10-2012, 04:07 AM
I'm sure when things play out, Kobe will still have his way, at least with his scoring numbers.
I still do not see him averaging under 23-24 ppg, minimum. He's going to have plenty of games where he still plays the role of hero and he has proven that he's not just the protypical athlete, he's worked himself into a place beyond that. I expect him to be on his game next season once again, more focused than ever.
I know he's immediately thinking title, and knows it's a very realistic possibility if LA can play their cards right. You know he's excited about being in the position he's in with 5 championships, 1 short of tying Jordan, and all the other achievements he can build on with the Lakers. This is a blessing

hidalgo
08-10-2012, 04:09 AM
KB is far too selfish to avg 18 ppg like he should with this team. he'll make sure to get 25 ppgg or higher. no way he lets d12 or gasol avg in the 20s like the should.

another few asterisk titles (the 3 Shaq titles, & the relying on Perkins to get hurt title) and Jerry west gave you Gasol for the somewhat 1 legit mega stacked frontcourt title (funny it was their farm team orlando they beat. point shaving?) get him 10 titles, he's still no MJ. 6 finals mvps

seikou8
08-10-2012, 07:02 AM
KB is far too selfish to avg 18 ppg like he should with this team. he'll make sure to get 25 ppgg or higher. no way he lets d12 or gasol avg in the 20s like the should.

another few asterisk titles (the 3 Shaq titles, & the relying on Perkins to get hurt title) and Jerry west gave you Gasol for the somewhat 1 legit mega stacked frontcourt title (funny it was their farm team orlando they beat. point shaving?) get him 10 titles, he's still no MJ. 6 finals mvps

:facepalm:

Aust
08-10-2012, 07:09 AM
KB is far too selfish to avg 18 ppg like he should with this team. he'll make sure to get 25 ppgg or higher. no way he lets d12 or gasol avg in the 20s like the should.

another few asterisk titles (the 3 Shaq titles, & the relying on Perkins to get hurt title) and Jerry west gave you Gasol for the somewhat 1 legit mega stacked frontcourt title (funny it was their farm team orlando they beat. point shaving?) get him 10 titles, he's still no MJ. 6 finals mvps

This proves it: You are the worst poster on this site. There are plenty of other horrible posters, but every now and then they contribute at least one decent post. This, you cannot even do. Please leave this forum and never come back.

D12 fan
08-10-2012, 07:10 AM
This proves it: You are the worst poster on this site. There are plenty of other horrible posters, but every now and then they contribute at least one decent post. This, you cannot even do. Please leave this forum and never come back.

:laugh:

LakersIn5
08-10-2012, 07:19 AM
kobe will still get 25. heck wade and bron averaged 25 each with bosh getting close to 20. i see kobe with 25 dwight 23 gasol 18.

FraziersKnicks
08-10-2012, 07:39 AM
:laugh2: at some of the Laker fans responses in this thread... How immature can you get.

FraziersKnicks
08-10-2012, 07:40 AM
:laugh:

Yo D12, you a Lakers fan now brah?

Aust
08-10-2012, 07:46 AM
:laugh2: at some of the Laker fans responses in this thread... How immature can you get.

Would you care to elaborate?

showtime24
08-10-2012, 08:16 AM
This thread! really? :facepalm:

LakersSaintsLSU
08-10-2012, 08:20 AM
Yo D12, you a Lakers fan now brah?

U MAD BRO...whut up d12 fan!!!!!!!


:dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance:: dance::dance::dance::dance::dance::dance:

Lakerfan In NY
08-10-2012, 08:57 AM
It's funny how Kobe win championship w/ different players (who never made if out of the 1st round or to a final) & everyone say that it's the players that help Kobe win NOT Kobe help the other players finally win. But Jordan (GOAT) wins with multiple Championships with multiple HOFers & everyone says that Jordan made those HOF players better. Intestesting!?!

TheScab
08-10-2012, 09:07 AM
It's funny how Kobe win championship w/ different players (who never made if out of the 1st round or to a final) & everyone say that it's the players that help Kobe win NOT Kobe help the other players finally win. But Jordan (GOAT) wins with multiple Championships with multiple HOFers & everyone says that Jordan made those HOF players better. Intestesting!?!

Really guy? Kobe got 3 rings playing with one of the best centers of all time, Shaquille Oneal, hall of famer.

JollyRanch
08-10-2012, 09:07 AM
Now that Howard is a Laker, it seems that Kobe (if he gets it) will have another ring with an asterisk. With this trade, he's so far from Jordan at this point now. To have two different versions of your career be muddled by having a larger star big man, doesn't make you a top 5 player of all-time.

Do you think he will be able to accept being second fiddle? Had the Lakers not gotten Nash, I believe he would've been first option, but when you see what Nash did for his big men in Phoenix, I don't think Kobe will have the ball all that often.

I see his scoring average dropping down to 18 PPG and it's hard seeing him accept that.

Nash will have the ball in his hands full time and Gasol/Howard will need to get their touches.

Whatever the case, I think Kobe will play a supporting role in a championship this year if they get one.

You're outta your mind.

Kobe's legacy was already intact before Dwight Howard got here. NO ONE wins with scrubs...not even MJ, Magic, Bird, Kareem, etc.

Dwight Howard is no Shaquille O'Neal down in the low post therefore he will NOT be the number one option on offense. That title STILL belongs to Kobe Bryant. Dwight Howard will excel defensively as he always does.

Kobe will average around 27/5/5, 47% FG

Heediot
08-10-2012, 09:11 AM
Can't blame Kobe one bit, blame the friggin' Orlando management, WTF they got pwned harder than an asa akira 4some.

Heediot
08-10-2012, 09:15 AM
But seriously, only Kobe homers think Kobe has more impact than Dwight. Kobe has heart, that's where he's elite, efficiency is not as good as you richriding fans believe.

younggunn113
08-10-2012, 09:17 AM
Really guy? Kobe got 3 rings playing with one of the best centers of all time, Shaquille Oneal, hall of famer.

Really guy? Jordan got 6 rings playing with Scottie Pippen (named to the 50 greatest players of all time list) and one of the best defensive/rebounding players of all time in Rodman. So Jordan played with at least 2 hall of famers... for 3 of his championships.

Kobe has 5 rings currently, 3 with Shaq. Pau is/was not a hall of famer before he came to LA, and he still might not even get in.

Avenged
08-10-2012, 10:12 AM
The fact that you guys think Kobe is going to be "second fiddle" is great for Laker fans. Seriously, Kobe as our #2?!?! LOL hell yeah! Who wouldn't want Kobe as their #2 option? That means there's another player on the same team better than him. :dance: :dance:

justinnum1
08-10-2012, 10:15 AM
The fact that you guys think Kobe is going to be "second fiddle" is great for Laker fans. Seriously, Kobe as our #2?!?! LOL hell yeah! Who wouldn't want Kobe as their #2 option? That means there's another player on the same team better than him. :dance: :dance:

Not quite.

Yes there will be someone on the team better than him, but will kobe accept that and let the better player be the first option? Or will he handicap dwight by doing more than he is capable of.

Avenged
08-10-2012, 10:19 AM
Not quite.

Yes there will be someone on the team better than him, but will kobe accept that and let the better player be the first option? Or will he handicap dwight by doing more than he is capable of.

We are so stacked at our starting 5 I really hope there is no option. With Nash running the team, we don't need anyone trying to be any type of option. Nash will be feeding everyone so I'm not really concerned. For the 1st time in a long time, we now have a true PG.

justinnum1
08-10-2012, 10:22 AM
We are so stacked at our starting 5 I really hope there is no option. With Nash running the team, we don't need anyone trying to be any type of option. Nash will be feeding everyone so I'm not really concerned. For the 1st time in a long time, we now have a true PG.

nash will be good, will be interesting if kobe takes on that ray allen type roll where he just runs around and is a spot up shooter

Avenged
08-10-2012, 10:23 AM
nash will be good, will be interesting if kobe takes on that ray allen type roll where he just runs around and is a spot up shooter

Lol now that I do doubt. Kobe will still be Kobe but I think Nash will somewhat limit that with him having the ball more and setting up everyone for easier looks.

NYflightboy
08-10-2012, 10:28 AM
I don't think he has to play second fiddle. It's not like Dwight is nearly as dominating as Shaq was in the paint (thought I think he should/can be). Unless Kobe starts showing his age then I would expect him to remain the #1 option and leading scorer for the Lakers. And why would there be an asterisk? I don't even get that.

Overall I think there will be stretches of games where they rely on Dwight (Nash/Dwight P&R combo will be sick) but I think Kobe will be THE man still.

Chronz
08-10-2012, 11:11 AM
They have assembled the perfect team for Kobe to chuck to his hearts content without sacrificing the teams chances of winning much. Dwight and Nash are 2 of the most efficient players at either end of the court. If he cant win now, then his days of winning with his style of play are over IMO.

hidalgo
08-10-2012, 11:16 AM
this Lakers team could win the title WITHOUT Kobe. it's pathetic to rely on an ultra mega stacked team with 4 HOF starters, & artest & jamison to bail you out. asterisk title *

PrettyBoyJ
08-10-2012, 11:32 AM
How would Kobe be second fiddle.. D. Howard is a beast but he's no Shaq on offense.. Kobe is still the Lakers best offensive player..

8kobe24
08-10-2012, 11:34 AM
Second fiddle? Not just yet...

KingPosey
08-10-2012, 11:51 AM
DH isnt a "larger star" than Kobe. And KB wont play second fiddle, it will hopefully just be a balanced attack with all their weapons. He will also still have the ball when it matters.

aztr0
08-10-2012, 01:16 PM
Kobe isn't second fiddle. Dwight Howard to be blunt, is a *****. Shaq on the other hand was alpha; which is what Kobe is.

fresh prince
08-10-2012, 01:27 PM
This proves it: You are the worst poster on this site. There are plenty of other horrible posters, but every now and then they contribute at least one decent post. This, you cannot even do. Please leave this forum and never come back.

Well played sir...

fresh prince
08-10-2012, 01:29 PM
this Lakers team could win the title WITHOUT Kobe. it's pathetic to rely on an ultra mega stacked team with 4 HOF starters, & artest & jamison to bail you out. asterisk title *

:crazy:

You know What is really pathetic?

Having a weird fascination / hatred toward another grown man you have never met.

Jenceman
08-10-2012, 01:30 PM
Watching highlights on sportscenter of a mix of Nash, Kobe, Pau, and Howard is giving me the world's biggest boner.

Lik a somboodee
08-10-2012, 02:18 PM
Hahaha like KoME is gonna accept second fiddle, he will still jack up his 25 shots and miss 15 of them

beliges
08-10-2012, 02:47 PM
this Lakers team could win the title WITHOUT Kobe. it's pathetic to rely on an ultra mega stacked team with 4 HOF starters, & artest & jamison to bail you out. asterisk title *

LOL. Lebron doesnt get an asterisk but Kobe should? Cant knock Kobe for players wanting to play with him and get rings. He got Shaq and Pau titles (none of them won a thing before playing with Kobe) and now hes gonna try to do the same for Dwight and Nash.

If youre a star player and youve never been able to win a title in the past, you join forces with Kobe and youll get your rings.

beliges
08-10-2012, 02:48 PM
Hahaha like KoME is gonna accept second fiddle, he will still jack up his 25 shots and miss 15 of them

Kobe has never accepted being second fiddle and it ended up getting him 5 rings. So why exactly is he gonna accept second fiddle now?

Toastyy
08-10-2012, 02:52 PM
Jordan had pippen?

Longhornfan1234
08-10-2012, 02:52 PM
Kobe > Howard.


Kobe is much better scorer, passer, play maker, and takes care of the ball better, and by far the better closer.

raiderposting
08-10-2012, 03:51 PM
I just heard Doc rivers say something about great athletes during the Olympics that i really agree with. He said the best of the best always find something to be mad at. usian bolt did it this year when people doubted him. Lebron used the hate to fuel him this year rather than trying to be liked last year. MJ had critics and used them to fuel him, and the same with kobe. Now kobe can use the criticism of the haters saying he's second fiddle to fuel him even more. If you aren't mad or have a chip on your shoulder, you have nothing to prove, which means you are basically satisfied with where you are at and don't need anything more. Kobe will win another title and he can give a damn what a couple of haters, yes haters think. People who try to belittle his career are haters. You don't have to like him, but to say he isn't one of the best ever is pure hate. You have to respect greatness and work ethic that kobe has. most of us dont work 1/10th as hard.

mrblisterdundee
08-10-2012, 04:27 PM
Who says Kobe is going to be the second fiddle? I doubt Dwight will ever crack 25 points per game. The distribution of scoring will be diluted enough to where Kobe is still the leading offensive threat.

knicks=love
08-10-2012, 04:58 PM
not sure what makes his next ring deserve an asterisk anyway? that's stupid to say though. he didn't do drugs or break any rules, so why would he have an asterisk? because his team's FO decided to actually give him a good supporting cast to win more championships?

Aust
08-10-2012, 07:53 PM
Kobe will be 2nd fiddle, perhaps even 3rd fiddle...... on defense

MrfadeawayJB
08-10-2012, 08:24 PM
yeah i think he will at this stage in his career. When shaq was there he was in his prime. Although i wouldnt necessarily say Dwight is the #1 option in LA

ee
08-10-2012, 08:27 PM
Dwight is no Shaq.....Dwight is a second offensive option or maybe third with gasol and kobe...

Lakerfan In NY
08-14-2012, 08:39 AM
Really guy? Kobe got 3 rings playing with one of the best centers of all time, Shaquille Oneal, hall of famer.

What about the other two rings?

Aust
08-14-2012, 08:44 AM
Cmon man don't necro threads

Andrew32
08-14-2012, 09:35 AM
LOL. Lebron doesnt get an asterisk but Kobe should? Cant knock Kobe for players wanting to play with him and get rings. He got Shaq and Pau titles (none of them won a thing before playing with Kobe) and now hes gonna try to do the same for Dwight and Nash.

If youre a star player and youve never been able to win a title in the past, you join forces with Kobe and youll get your rings.
You're a bad Troll.

Peak Shaq was arguably the GOAT / MDE.

Kobe even at his absolute best wasn't even 1/25th what Shaq was from 00-02 in terms of impact and value.

Kobe in 00 was just a low - mid level All-Star and was injured or useless for the majority of the Finals.
Kobe in 02 was just an All-Star and he was no better then Prime Pippen.

He was a sidekick all 3 years just like Pippen was to Jordan.

Before Gasol joined him he couldn't lead his teams out of the first round despite having a solid All-Star in Odom.
Gasol without Kobe led a team with no All-Stars into the playoffs in the West.

The fact is Kobe will always just be a borderline Top 10 player.
As a playoff performer in terms of production/impact, performances, consistency and longevity he isn't even in the same realm as players like Jordan, Kareem, Shaq, Magic, Russell or Duncan and he probably won't surpass the career values of Bird, Hakeem or Wilt either.

The fact that he got to play sidekick for 3 years and is probably the luckiest player in the history of the game in terms of supporting casts which allowed him to stockpile many "team accomplishments" like Rings does not increase his value as an individual.

He will still retire with only 1 Ring as the undisputed #1 and engine of his team (2009) while players like Shaq, Magic, Duncan have 3+ and Jordan who has 6+.

Kobe is a great, great player.
He is a legend and one of the best ever.

However as a playoff performer and in terms of career value he is borderline Top 10 and nothing he can do at this point (adding 1-3 All-Star level seasons) will really move him up even if he ends up winning a Title or Two thanks to a really great overall supporting cast.

Kobe2324
08-14-2012, 10:02 AM
asterisk....really??? 3 finals mvps and he could have been the man much sooner but decided to not be selfish and play his role of being the finisher and he played it well, also could have easily been mvp for one of shaq's finals mvp, Just because your a Kobe hater dont try to take anything away from him, you know dam well Kobe had a million times more talent than Shaq did when he was "the Man" but Kobe was told to chill and play his role and he did. Kobe will not be 2nd fiddle this year either, I just think him, dwight and nash will be equals and leaders in their own way. Kobe will still lead the team in scoring, dwight will anchor the D and Nash will be the floor general.

Andrew32
08-14-2012, 10:07 AM
asterisk....really??? 3 finals mvps and he could have been the man much sooner but decided to not be selfish and play his role of being the finisher and he played it well, also could have easily been mvp for one of shaq's finals mvp, you know dam well Kobe had a million times more talent than Shaq did when he was "the Man" but Kobe was told to chill and play his role and he did.
Chill man.

Shaq was at his absolute Peak from 00-02.
Shaq's Peak is arguably the best ever or at worst #2 only to Jordan.

Are you implying that 00-02 Kobe was on the same level as Peak Jordan / Peak Shaq but he was just holding back?

Kobe even at his absolute Peak was never even close to being on the same level as 00-02 Shaq
or early Late 80's / Early 90's Jordan.

Kobe's Peak is at best around Top #15 All-Time while Shaq had arguably the GOAT Peak and Kobe's Peak was in the late 00's, not the early 00's.

Seriously... quit overrating Young Kobe.
He was no better then Prime Pippen in 00 and 02 and he was a sidekick to a vastly superior player.

xxplayerxx23
08-14-2012, 10:09 AM
:pity: NY spirt has 70 percent of these stupid threads.

Kobe2324
08-14-2012, 10:23 AM
You're a bad Troll.

Peak Shaq was arguably the GOAT / MDE.

Kobe even at his absolute best wasn't even 1/25th what Shaq was from 00-02 in terms of impact and value.

Kobe in 00 was just a low - mid level All-Star and was injured or useless for the majority of the Finals.
Kobe in 02 was just an All-Star and he was no better then Prime Pippen.

He was a sidekick all 3 years just like Pippen was to Jordan.

Before Gasol joined him he couldn't lead his teams out of the first round despite having a solid All-Star in Odom.
Gasol without Kobe led a team with no All-Stars into the playoffs in the West.

The fact is Kobe will always just be a borderline Top 10 player.
As a playoff performer in terms of production/impact, performances, consistency and longevity he isn't even in the same realm as players like Jordan, Kareem, Shaq, Magic, Russell or Duncan and he probably won't surpass the career values of Bird, Hakeem or Wilt either.

The fact that he got to play sidekick for 3 years and is probably the luckiest player in the history of the game in terms of supporting casts which allowed him to stockpile many "team accomplishments" like Rings does not increase his value as an individual.

He will still retire with only 1 Ring as the undisputed #1 and engine of his team (2009) while players like Shaq, Magic, Duncan have 3+ and Jordan who has 6+.

Kobe is a great, great player.
He is a legend and one of the best ever.

However as a playoff performer and in terms of career value he is borderline Top 10 and nothing he can do at this point (adding 1-3 All-Star level seasons) will really move him up even if he ends up winning a Title or Two thanks to a really great overall supporting cast.


WTF! did Kobe bang your wife or something and you just want to hate on him now, Let's be clear, only one player is better than Kobe and that's Jordan, dont have to take my word for it, take MJ's word for it. The man himself said Kobe is the only player that deserves to be compared to him. Kobe is a better player than Shaq by far, no other player can compare with the exception of Jordan of course. Just crazyness...

Heatcheck
08-14-2012, 10:31 AM
asterisk....really??? 3 finals mvps and he could have been the man much sooner but decided to not be selfish and play his role of being the finisher and he played it well, also could have easily been mvp for one of shaq's finals mvp, Just because your a Kobe hater dont try to take anything away from him, you know dam well Kobe had a million times more talent than Shaq did when he was "the Man" but Kobe was told to chill and play his role and he did. Kobe will not be 2nd fiddle this year either, I just think him, dwight and nash will be equals and leaders in their own way. Kobe will still lead the team in scoring, dwight will anchor the D and Nash will be the floor general.

Stop being a Kobe homer and give shaq his due. You act like kobe was holding back to let shaq be the man, he got plenty of shots (wide open ones at that, because of shaq) and when he tried to be the man on that team, the pistons beat that ***. Talent means jack, plenty of people have had more talent than shaq and cant produce like him. Kobe never did when he was with him, alone, with 3 7fters, last year, and wont next year.

Andrew32
08-14-2012, 10:51 AM
WTF! did Kobe bang your wife or something.
Kobe is a better player than Shaq by far, no other player can compare with the exception of Jordan of course. Just crazyness...

Kobe did bang my wife, jk.
Kobe is not better then Shaq nor is he even close to Shaq.

Shaq is #2 All-Time in playoff production after Jordan who is #1.
Kobe is around #15 All-Time in playoff production.

Shaq led 5 teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine and won 3 Titles as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Kobe led 2 teams to the Finals as the undisputed #1 / engine and won 1 Title as the undisputed #1 / engine.

Shaq has 10 years of Super-Star level play.
Kobe has 4-5 years of Super-Star level play.

Shaq as a playoff performer when comparing them over 1, 3, 5, 7, 10 and even 13 years absolutely destroys Kobe in terms of production, performances, impact and especially consistency.

He was just a far better player and playoff performer.

Only Jordan, Kareem, Russell and Magic can compare to Shaq as playoff performers and when you look deeper into advanced stats which show individual impact on team potency then Shaq and Jordan stand above everyone else by a significant margin.

Kobe is a great player and is around #10 All-Time.
He can probably be argued even lower and when he retires you might be able to argue for him being slightly higher.

However Shaq is a Top 5 All-Time player and GOAT candidate.
Kobe will never compare to him no matter what he does before he retires.

I know you are probably young and your perspective is different from mine so its cool.
Enjoy the game, enjoy watching Kobe play. Basketball is awesome.
:clap:


#1.
Jordan : Post Season - PER
Peak : 32
Top 5 : 30.16
Top 7 : 29.61
Top 10 : 28.89
Top 13 : 28.6

------------------------------------------------------------

#2.
Shaq : Post Season - PER
Peak : 31
Top 5 : 30
Top 7 : 29.56
Top 10 : 28.52
Top 13 : 26.55
14th to 16th Season (Final 3 Seasons) - 18.33

------------------------------------------------------------

#4.
Duncan : Post Season - PER
Peak : 28.4
Top 5 : 26.96
Top 7 : 27.49
Top 10 : 26.67
Top 13 : 25.4

------------------------------------------------------------

#5.
Kareem : Post Season - PER
Peak : 32.4
Top 5 : 27.4
Top 7 : 25.64
Top 10 : 25.42
Top 13 : 24.7
14th to 16th Season (3 Seasons) - 20.9
Last 2 Seasons : 12.85 (26.65 MPG)

------------------------------------------------------------

#14.
KG : Post Season - PER
Peak : 25.5
Top 5 : 24.68
Top 7 : 24

------------------------------------------------------------

#15.
Kobe : Post Season - PER
Peak : 26.8
Top 5 : 24
Top 7 : 23
Top 10 : 22.98
Top 13 : 21.62

------------------------------------------------------------

beliges
08-14-2012, 12:21 PM
Here they come. Lol. People are already trying to make excuses as to how to diminish the rings that are probably coming to Kobe's way given that he has a championship team around him now. I love how this argument is only made for Kobe as if magic, bird, lebron,mj, Kareem.wilt, Russell never won with HOFers and multiple all-stars.. witness what may be the 2nd superstar to reach that elusive sixth title in modern NBA history. There's a reason why the only one to have done it this far is MJ.

JasonJohnHorn
08-14-2012, 01:03 PM
Will he accept being second fiddle AGAIN? I don't remember him accepting it the first time. I remember him hogging the ball and running Shaq out of LA. I order to accept it again, he would have had to accept it the first time ;-)

That said, NO! FAWK NO! Kobe is, and always will be, a ball hog. Unless the Lakers bring back Phil Jackson, there will be heads butting well before the trade deadline.

Heatcheck
08-14-2012, 03:06 PM
Here they come. Lol. People are already trying to make excuses as to how to diminish the rings that are probably coming to Kobe's way given that he has a championship team around him now. I love how this argument is only made for Kobe as if magic, bird, lebron,mj, Kareem.wilt, Russell never won with HOFers and multiple all-stars.. witness what may be the 2nd superstar to reach that elusive sixth title in modern NBA history. There's a reason why the only one to have done it this far is MJ.


yeah only kobe gets that criticism. i cant think of any other player, even in todays game, that has had that issue.

Heatcheck
08-14-2012, 03:10 PM
Will he accept being second fiddle AGAIN? I don't remember him accepting it the first time. I remember him hogging the ball and running Shaq out of LA. I order to accept it again, he would have had to accept it the first time ;-)

That said, NO! FAWK NO! Kobe is, and always will be, a ball hog. Unless the Lakers bring back Phil Jackson, there will be heads butting well before the trade deadline.

Time has a way of changing people. Kobes a diva but he's very intelligent. and im sure he realizes how much he really has left, regardless of what his fans, or he himself will let on because of the competitiveness. with shaq, he was still trying to prove himself, that causes conflict, but those days are over. he's got another team oriented star coming over, with whom he agreed to make certain concessions in his game and now another star is coming over, who is younger more important and is also a big man.

KB-Pau-DH2012
08-14-2012, 03:15 PM
Now that Howard is a Laker, it seems that Kobe (if he gets it) will have another ring with an asterisk. With this trade, he's so far from Jordan at this point now. To have two different versions of your career be muddled by having a larger star big man, doesn't make you a top 5 player of all-time.

Do you think he will be able to accept being second fiddle? Had the Lakers not gotten Nash, I believe he would've been first option, but when you see what Nash did for his big men in Phoenix, I don't think Kobe will have the ball all that often.

I see his scoring average dropping down to 18 PPG and it's hard seeing him accept that.

Nash will have the ball in his hands full time and Gasol/Howard will need to get their touches.

Whatever the case, I think Kobe will play a supporting role in a championship this year if they get one.


U Scuuuuuurrrrrrreeeeedddddddd :dance:

clydebino
08-14-2012, 03:32 PM
hahaha Kobe will not play second fiddle simply because Howard will never ever ever be as dominant as Shaq. Dwight's title as best C in the league is a very narrow lead.

dh144498
08-14-2012, 03:49 PM
Now that Howard is a Laker, it seems that Kobe (if he gets it) will have another ring with an asterisk. With this trade, he's so far from Jordan at this point now. To have two different versions of your career be muddled by having a larger star big man, doesn't make you a top 5 player of all-time.

Do you think he will be able to accept being second fiddle? Had the Lakers not gotten Nash, I believe he would've been first option, but when you see what Nash did for his big men in Phoenix, I don't think Kobe will have the ball all that often.

I see his scoring average dropping down to 18 PPG and it's hard seeing him accept that.

Nash will have the ball in his hands full time and Gasol/Howard will need to get their touches.

Whatever the case, I think Kobe will play a supporting role in a championship this year if they get one.


why would any of his rings have astericks, and would his next ring have an asterick?

and how would winning more championships actually make your legacy worse?
is this even logic? you have to enlighten everyone with your logic, or lack of.

I think you are just trolling, but then again, you really could be THIS stupid. I've seen some ridiculously stupid ones.

dtmagnet
08-14-2012, 03:53 PM
He's still their number one scorer... Unless Dwight magically learned offensive skills while he was injured.

Andrew32
08-14-2012, 03:56 PM
He's still their number one scorer... Unless Dwight magically learned offensive skills while he was injured.

He might lead the team in PPG but in terms of value and overall impact Dwight will be #1.
Dwight is a Super-Star, Kobe is an All-Star.

Rings are team accomplishments anyway they don't mean much when judging individuals.
If Kobe does win another one it'll be because he has a stacked cast and not because of his own individual ability.

If someone like Shaq, Kareem or Jordan had the career luck / casts Kobe had they'd have more Rings then Russell.

Luckiest player in league history in terms of career circumstances/supporting casts.

HouRealCoach
08-14-2012, 04:04 PM
This era is making sure Kobe gets his the guy went from Shaq to Gasol/Odom/Bynum to Dwight/Nash/Jamison/Metta

I could win rings with help like that

nicegoing
08-14-2012, 04:06 PM
The only people who care about this first option second option crap is you losers. If Kobe gets another ring he gets another ring. As long as he isn't garbage this year of course it will add to his legacy.

dh144498
08-14-2012, 04:22 PM
He might lead the team in PPG but in terms of value and overall impact Dwight will be #1.
Dwight is a Super-Star, Kobe is an All-Star.

Rings are team accomplishments anyway they don't mean much when judging individuals.
If Kobe does win another one it'll be because he has a stacked cast and not because of his own individual ability.

If someone like Shaq, Kareem or Jordan had the career luck / casts Kobe had they'd have more Rings then Russell.

Luckiest player in league history in terms of career circumstances/supporting casts.

Shaq played in the same team as kobe. wtf are you talking about?
Kareem didn't have stacked teams? rofl
Jordan didn't have stacked teams? LMFAO. yeah cause he won 6 of his rings all by himself right?

i understand how much you hate kobe, but those points you just made made you look like a complete idiot. you are talking with emotions and not with logic. rofl

8kobe24
08-14-2012, 04:29 PM
He might lead the team in PPG but in terms of value and overall impact Dwight will be #1.
Dwight is a Super-Star, Kobe is an All-Star.

Rings are team accomplishments anyway they don't mean much when judging individuals.
If Kobe does win another one it'll be because he has a stacked cast and not because of his own individual ability.

If someone like Shaq, Kareem or Jordan had the career luck / casts Kobe had they'd have more Rings then Russell.

Luckiest player in league history in terms of career circumstances/supporting casts.

U Dunk? Those guys all had great supporting cast. Shaq and Kobe were on the same team. Go to sleep now, I think you've had a little too much.

KB-Pau-DH2012
08-14-2012, 04:31 PM
Andrew32 is mad because he just got traded to Philly.

fingerbang
08-14-2012, 04:32 PM
What makes him the second fiddle? Furthermore, why the **** wouldn't he want the front office to improve the team in the offseason?

Andrew32
08-14-2012, 04:43 PM
U Dunk? Those guys all had great supporting cast. Shaq and Kobe were on the same team. Go to sleep now, I think you've had a little too much.
Are you comparing 97-04 Kobe to 97-04 Shaq?
I think you need some sleep.


Shaq played in the same team as kobe. wtf are you talking about?
Yeah they did and Shaq was light years better then Kobe when they played together.

The equivalent supporting cast / luck / circumstances for Shaq would be getting to play with Prime / Peak Jordan for his first 8 years in the league.

8kobe24
08-14-2012, 04:50 PM
Are you comparing 97-04 Kobe to 97-04 Shaq?
I think you need some sleep.


Seriously, think before you type. And don't forget to reference back to your last post that way you don't sound stupid or confusing.

Smc1174
08-14-2012, 04:52 PM
U Mad, He Mad, She Mad, Dad's Mad, Erybody Mad.


^hahahaha

Andrew32
08-14-2012, 04:54 PM
Seriously, think before you type. And don't forget to reference back to your last post that way you don't sound stupid or confusing.

I did think think.
You said Kobe didn't have better casts because Shaq had Kobe.

I told you that was stupid because 97-04 Shaq was 1000x better then 97-04 Kobe.

It isn't a comparable situation.

Thats like saying Jordan was just as lucky in terms of supporting casts as Pippen was because they both played with eachother.

Do you really not understand?

:facepalm:

Kobe got to play his first 8 years as a sidekick to one of the most dominant players in the history of the game and then he got two All-Stars (Gasol / Odom) + Elite Roleplayers like Ariza and Artest and now he has a Super-Star and two All-Stars. (Dwight, Pau, Nash).

No one in the history of the game has had anywhere near the same luck as Kobe in terms of supporting casts and ideal circumstances.

Maybe Kareem and Russell are in the same class but even that is pushing it.

smith&wesson
08-14-2012, 04:57 PM
Now that Howard is a Laker, it seems that Kobe (if he gets it) will have another ring with an asterisk. With this trade, he's so far from Jordan at this point now. To have two different versions of your career be muddled by having a larger star big man, doesn't make you a top 5 player of all-time.

Do you think he will be able to accept being second fiddle? Had the Lakers not gotten Nash, I believe he would've been first option, but when you see what Nash did for his big men in Phoenix, I don't think Kobe will have the ball all that often.

I see his scoring average dropping down to 18 PPG and it's hard seeing him accept that.

Nash will have the ball in his hands full time and Gasol/Howard will need to get their touches.

Whatever the case, I think Kobe will play a supporting role in a championship this year if they get one.

1. nash averages 12.5 ppg. the lakers still need kobe to score.

2. howard will be the defensive anchor of the team. nash needs him for help D. he will probably be the 2nd highest scorer on the team as well but he doesnt excell on the offensive end as much as he doesn on the defensive. also if he howard wants to play with elite players and compete for a ship. thats why he wanted out of orlando.

3. kobe is still the closer and best scoring option on the team in terms of offensive ability. he has the most offensive weapons in his arsenal.

4. kobe is aware that he is slowing down and has said that he can simply go back to being a scorer and closer. he obviously knows he needs help to win more ships which is all he is obsessed with. winning!

5. last and most important he still has a chance at another finals mvp.

Andrew32
08-14-2012, 05:02 PM
1. nash averages 12.5 ppg. the lakers still need kobe to score.

2. howard will be the defensive anchor of the team. nash needs him for help D. he will probably be the 2nd highest scorer on the team as well but he doesnt excell on the offensive end as much as he doesn on the defensive. also if he howard wants to play with elite players and compete for a ship. thats why he wanted out of orlando.

3. kobe is still the closer and best scoring option on the team in terms of offensive ability. he has the most offensive weapons in his arsenal.

4. kobe is aware that he is slowing down and has said that he can simply go back to being a scorer and closer. he obviously knows he needs help to win more ships which is all he is obsessed with. winning!

5. last and most important he still has a chance at another finals mvp.

In regards to #3.
Kobe's scoring ability is not close to what it used to be.

He was not very good offensively last season.
Nice volume but god awful efficiency and consistency and he needed to dominate the ball.

He had entire months where he shot below 40% from the field.

At this point he is most likely only capable of scoring 18-23ppg on decent efficiency unless Nash really helps him.
He hasn't really played off the ball in awhile so it'll be hard to see how it will effect him offensively to not be touching the ball nearly as often as he is used too.

The fact is high volume scoring is not beneficial when it comes paired with ball dominance and inefficiency/inconsistency.

The Lakers need to run a Celtic type offense with Kobe / Pau / Dwight sharing a similar load.

C-Style
08-14-2012, 05:06 PM
If u ask me Dwight is a better 2nd option, U can even argue that Pau would make a way better 2nd option. What makes Dwight more special is his defensive presence. He's like that much stronger villain that follows the masterind in Movies & cartoons

Andrew32
08-14-2012, 05:10 PM
Kobe can score his 18-24ppg and Dwight / Gasol will chip in 17-20ppg each.

Nash can be a 11 / 13apg type guy.

It won't be good if Dwight or Gasol get left out of the offense because come playoff time that will make them much easier to defend.

C-Style
08-14-2012, 05:12 PM
If u ask me Dwight is a better 2nd option, U can even argue that Pau would make a way better 2nd option. What makes Dwight more special is his defensive presence. He's like that much stronger villain that follows the masterind in Movies & cartoons

John Walls Era
08-14-2012, 05:14 PM
Kobe can score his 18-24ppg and Dwight / Gasol will chip in 17-20ppg each.

Nash can be a 11 / 13apg type guy.

It won't be good if Dwight or Gasol get left out of the offense because come playoff time that will make them much easier to defend.

kobe wont accept that

John Walls Era
08-14-2012, 05:15 PM
1. nash averages 12.5 ppg. the lakers still need kobe to score.

2. howard will be the defensive anchor of the team. nash needs him for help D. he will probably be the 2nd highest scorer on the team as well but he doesnt excell on the offensive end as much as he doesn on the defensive. also if he howard wants to play with elite players and compete for a ship. thats why he wanted out of orlando.

3. kobe is still the closer and best scoring option on the team in terms of offensive ability. he has the most offensive weapons in his arsenal.

4. kobe is aware that he is slowing down and has said that he can simply go back to being a scorer and closer. he obviously knows he needs help to win more ships which is all he is obsessed with. winning!

5. last and most important he still has a chance at another finals mvp.

Hero Ball sucks. Id give it to Nash and let him pick n roll on the last play. Whoever is open can take it.

topdog
08-14-2012, 05:17 PM
Why an asterisk? Because he plays in a large market, Knicks fan, but actually has a very good front office? If somehow, someway the Knicks won a title, would there be an asterisk about Melo demanding to go to New York?

Aside from that, I don't see Kobe's role being diminished. Dwight isn't suddenly going to be option #1. Nash should get everyone open looks. Don't forget how good of looks Nash got 3pt shooters as well.

C-Style
08-14-2012, 05:17 PM
This moron, u cant just make Gasol & Dwight da 1st options, teams will just pack the paint. Lakers are fine the way they are, they need Kobe to be a threat all over the floor to give everyone better looks.

akagiredsuns
08-14-2012, 05:44 PM
Had to be a Knicks fan to start a baiting thread about the Lakers. Kobe will NEVER be second fiddle to Howard. Anyone who thinks that is clueless about LA. It is his team. He's the main guy in LA. He will be the closer in the 4th quarter. Nash will spread the floor. Gasol will be more improved because of Nash. Howard will be his physical self under the rim, but enough of this Kobe second fiddle crap. :facepalm:

Andrew32
08-14-2012, 05:47 PM
He will be the closer in the 4th quarter.
He didn't do a very good job of that last season.
Did you watch the OKC series?

Nash is the new closer.
:cool:

smith&wesson
08-14-2012, 05:49 PM
In regards to #3.
Kobe's scoring ability is not close to what it used to be.

He was not very good offensively last season.
Nice volume but god awful efficiency and consistency and he needed to dominate the ball.

He had entire months where he shot below 40% from the field.

At this point he is most likely only capable of scoring 18-23ppg on decent efficiency unless Nash really helps him.
He hasn't really played off the ball in awhile so it'll be hard to see how it will effect him offensively to not be touching the ball nearly as often as he is used too.

The fact is high volume scoring is not beneficial when it comes paired with ball dominance and inefficiency/inconsistency.

The Lakers need to run a Celtic type offense with Kobe / Pau / Dwight sharing a similar load.

i said kobe still has the most offensive moves in his arsenal. the amount of ways kobe can score is not commparable to the amount of offensive weapons howard has. Howard is going to be more effecient obviously. alot of his points come off of put backs or come from with in the paint. but kobe can score from any where on the floor in a variety of ways. thats what i was referring too.

Andrew32
08-14-2012, 05:53 PM
i said kobe still has the most offensive moves in his arsenal. the amount of ways kobe can score is not commparable to the amount of offensive weapons howard has. Howard is going to be more effecient obviously. alot of his points come off of put backs or come from with in the paint. but kobe can score from any where on the floor in a variety of ways. thats what i was referring too.

Ok then, yeah I agree with that.
Kobe is the most skilled offensive player on the team with Nash.

However Dwight might be the best scorer.

In the end production, efficiency and results are what matters.
You want to run your offense through your more effective scorer, not your most skilled scorer.

I'll take 20-22ppg on 60% shooting over 25ppg on 43% shooting even if the 25ppg scorer is much more skilled and can score in more ways.

beliges
08-14-2012, 05:56 PM
He didn't do a very good job of that last season.
Did you watch the OKC series?

Nash is the new closer.
:cool:

Yup, because Nash closed the regular season really well last season.

The fact remains, Kobe is still the #1 option on this team. Except now, he doesnt have to rely on an inconsistent Bynum and Pau too much anymore. He has a consistent defensive center with limited offensive game in Dwight and finally, for the first time in his entire career, he has another perimeter player who can facilitate the offense and create their own shots. MJ always had one with Pippen; Magic had one in Worhty and Scott; Bird had a few in Ainge and DJ, and now finally Kobe has one. Its pretty crazy has Nash would be the very first perimeter player Kobe has played with that can create his own shot.

Should be interesting to watch Kobe lead this team. One thing thats been proven time and time again, you give the guy a good team, and he will deliver multiple championships.

Andrew32
08-14-2012, 05:59 PM
Should be interesting to watch Kobe lead this team. One thing thats been proven time and time again, you give the guy a good team, and he will deliver multiple championships.
When did he ever prove that?

He only won 1 Title as the clear #1 and engine of a team in 2009 despite having a Top 3-5 supporting cast from 08-12.

So... yeah he never proved anything close to that.

Shaq, Duncan and Jordan are the only players in recent history to lead multiple teams to titles as #1's.

Kobe may be the vocal/spiritual leader of this team but D12 is inarguably the best player on the team and will be the biggest reason for its success if they do end up winning it all.

smith&wesson
08-14-2012, 06:02 PM
He's still their number one scorer... Unless Dwight magically learned offensive skills while he was injured.

exactly.. ppl forget howard is not as effect on the offensive end as he is on the defensive.

sure howard will have high fg% when all his shots are dunks or come from with in the the paint. but kobe obviously has way more offensive moves in his arsenal.

doesnt mean howard cant still be the 2nd or 3rd scoring option.


Hero Ball sucks. Id give it to Nash and let him pick n roll on the last play. Whoever is open can take it.

Theres a difference between hero ball and having a go to scorer. p&r is just one play. your gonna run one play at the end of every game ?

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-14-2012, 06:09 PM
When did he ever prove that?

He only won 1 Title as the clear #1 and engine of a team in 2009 despite having a Top 3-5 supporting cast from 08-12.

So... yeah he never proved anything close to that.

Shaq, Duncan and Jordan are the only players in recent history to lead multiple teams to titles as #1's.

Kobe may be the vocal/spiritual leader of this team but D12 is inarguably the best player on the team and will be the biggest reason for its success if they do end up winning it all.

Kobe was the best player on the lakers in 09' 10' championship years! Smh if u think other wise...

Andrew32
08-14-2012, 06:11 PM
Kobe was the best player on the lakers in 09' 10' championship years! Smh if u think other wise...

Gasol was the MVP of the OKC / BOS series in 2010.
He also led the team in playoff WShares by a huge amount and had basically the same PER as Kobe.

It is debatable who the best player was in that playoff run but Gasol / Kobe were equal to eachother.

Peak Gasol was very, very good and 2010 Kobe was exiting his Prime and clearly was no longer the same player he was from 06-09.

smith&wesson
08-14-2012, 06:11 PM
Ok then, yeah I agree with that.
Kobe is the most skilled offensive player on the team with Nash.

However Dwight might be the best scorer.

In the end production, efficiency and results are what matters.
You want to run your offense through your more effective scorer, not your most skilled scorer.

I'll take 20-22ppg on 60% shooting over 25ppg on 43% shooting even if the 25ppg scorer is much more skilled and can score in more ways.

UMM ya but you dont think it makes a difference between positions ?

you really think you can compare shaq's fg% to larry birds fg%??
hmmmmmm....

its known that a C's fg% should be higher then wing players because they mostly score in the paint off of dunks, put backs, lay ups etc. .

Andrew32
08-14-2012, 06:15 PM
UMM ya but you dont think it makes a difference between positions ?

you really think you can compare shaq's fg% to larry birds fg%??
hmmmmmm....

its known that a C's fg% should be higher then wing players because they mostly score in the paint off of dunks, put backs, lay ups etc. .
Efficiency is efficiency.
A missed shot is a missed shot regardless of position.

There are not many C's capable of scoring on high volume while remaining efficient and most of the ones that were are All-Time great scorers like Shaq, Kareem and Hakeem/Wilt.

I am not necessarily even saying that Kobe can't lead the team in PPG only that he shouldn't shoot so much that he becomes inefficient like he was this past season.

John Walls Era
08-14-2012, 06:29 PM
Theres a difference between hero ball and having a go to scorer. p&r is just one play. your gonna run one play at the end of every game ?

Pick and Roll isn't just a play. Many different things can be added in the pick and roll. Giving Nash the ball and let him make the decision at the end of the game would be a good move.

Kobe isolation on the other hand is 1 play we've seen far too often. Yes hes capable, but statistically speaking its still a much lower % than a wide open shot. Depending on the situation, I might run a pick and roll play that gives Kobe a mid range shot.

LakersMaster24
08-14-2012, 06:42 PM
The team is not gonna have options. People are just gonna have roles. The guys know that. Stop trying to find ******** ways that make the Lakers look bad.

LoveMeOrHateMe
08-14-2012, 06:50 PM
Gasol was the MVP of the OKC / BOS series in 2010.
He also led the team in playoff WShares by a huge amount and had basically the same PER as Kobe.

It is debatable who the best player was in that playoff run but Gasol / Kobe were equal to eachother.

Peak Gasol was very, very good and 2010 Kobe was exiting his Prime and clearly was no longer the same player he was from 06-09.


Again Kobe was the best player on that team ever since joining the lakers pau has had bigger win shares then Kobe does that mean he was better? People forget sports analysts from espn and nba tv were even debating if Kobe should have won MVP even if the lakers lost to the celtics that year which they didn't because that's how great of a series he was having... Kobe was the undisputed best player on those 2 championship teams

mike_noodles
08-14-2012, 06:50 PM
Howard is still far from a #1 option on offense. Kobe will not be second fiddle. And comparing Dwight to Shaq is laughable.

Andrew32
08-14-2012, 06:54 PM
Again Kobe was the best player on that team ever since joining the lakers pau has had bigger win shares then Kobe does that mean he was better? People forget sports analysts from espn and nba tv were even debating if Kobe should have won MVP even if the lakers lost to the celtics that year which they didn't because that's how great of a series he was having... Kobe was the undisputed best player on those 2 championship teams
lol 99% of everything the media says is ******** and is based around popular storylines / money.

If your argument is : ESPN said it so its true then you don't have any legs to stand on.

I watch the games and judge for myself and Kobe was certainly not the undisputed on the 2010 team.
Gasol was just as valuable as Kobe was in that specific run.

You may not want to except it if you are a Kobe fan and it would be easier just to diminish or try to ignore Gasol but I won't.

AsiandudePH
08-14-2012, 07:19 PM
Kobe should take a seat back and play a mixed Pierce/Allen role this season with Dwight, Pau and Nash (respectively) filling in much of the scoring load in the first three quarters; and I believe that this has been mentioned in one of Kobe's most recent interviews (look for the link, I'm tardy.)

It's not just about preserving himself but Kobe showing respect to his peers - who undoubtedly can be trusted with the ball in their hands as well as his.

Also it has been mentioned that the offense will go through the post and go from there so the focal point will be the two bigs.

There's no who-eats-first in this version of the Lakers, just mutual respect all around.

C-Style
08-14-2012, 07:20 PM
Ok then, yeah I agree with that.
Kobe is the most skilled offensive player on the team with Nash.

However Dwight might be the best scorer.

In the end production, efficiency and results are what matters.
You want to run your offense through your more effective scorer, not your most skilled scorer.

I'll take 20-22ppg on 60% shooting over 25ppg on 43% shooting even if the 25ppg scorer is much more skilled and can score in more ways.


Does this mean Dwight is the best player in the league??

He shoots a way better FG% than Lebron and is by far the better defender.

C-Style
08-14-2012, 07:33 PM
lol 99% of everything the media says is ******** and is based around popular storylines / money.

If your argument is : ESPN said it so its true then you don't have any legs to stand on.

I watch the games and judge for myself and Kobe was certainly not the undisputed on the 2010 team.
Gasol was just as valuable as Kobe was in that specific run.

You may not want to except it if you are a Kobe fan and it would be easier just to diminish or try to ignore Gasol but I won't.

Gasol did not play well away. He needed to show up every game.

Game 3:

Gasol = 13/10/4
Bryant = 29/7/4

Game 4:

Gasol = 21/6/3
Bryant = 33/6/2

Game 5:

Gasol = 12/12/0
Bryant = 38/5/4


Both players FG% dropped by 6% in that series.

GREATNESS ONE
08-14-2012, 07:44 PM
Kobe should take a seat back and play a mixed Pierce/Allen role this season with Dwight, Pau and Nash (respectively) filling in much of the scoring load in the first three quarters; and I believe that this has been mentioned in one of Kobe's most recent interviews (look for the link, I'm tardy.)

It's not just about preserving himself but Kobe showing respect to his peers - who undoubtedly can be trusted with the ball in their hands as well as his.

Also it has been mentioned that the offense will go through the post and go from there so the focal point will be the two bigs.

There's no who-eats-first in this version of the Lakers, just mutual respect all around.


Let's Play ball :clap:

THE_LOGO
08-14-2012, 07:49 PM
You're a bad Troll.

Peak Shaq was arguably the GOAT / MDE.

Kobe even at his absolute best wasn't even 1/25th what Shaq was from 00-02 in terms of impact and value.

Kobe in 00 was just a low - mid level All-Star and was injured or useless for the majority of the Finals.
Kobe in 02 was just an All-Star and he was no better then Prime Pippen.

Kobe was so useless, he was the one closing out games while Shaq sat on the bench because he couldn't make free throws.

He was a sidekick all 3 years just like Pippen was to Jordan.

So Pippen closed the games like Kobe?

Before Gasol joined him he couldn't lead his teams out of the first round despite having a solid All-Star in Odom.
Gasol without Kobe led a team with no All-Stars into the playoffs in the West.

Odom is a SOLID all star?

The fact is Kobe will always just be a borderline Top 10 player.
As a playoff performer in terms of production/impact, performances, consistency and longevity he isn't even in the same realm as players like Jordan, Kareem, Shaq, Magic, Russell or Duncan and he probably won't surpass the career values of Bird, Hakeem or Wilt either.

The fact that he got to play sidekick for 3 years and is probably the luckiest player in the history of the game in terms of supporting casts which allowed him to stockpile many "team accomplishments" like Rings does not increase his value as an individual.

Says you...

He will still retire with only 1 Ring as the undisputed #1 and engine of his team (2009) while players like Shaq, Magic, Duncan have 3+ and Jordan who has 6+.

Kobe is a great, great player.
He is a legend and one of the best ever.

Does this not contradict everything you just said, specifically him being a sidekick and just a low-mid level all star?

However as a playoff performer and in terms of career value he is borderline Top 10 and nothing he can do at this point (adding 1-3 All-Star level seasons) will really move him up even if he ends up winning a Title or Two thanks to a really great overall supporting cast.

Perhaps after Kobe retires and maybe you'll realize how great Kobe's career was and still is. Hell, even as a Laker fan hating the Celtics, I gave Bird his due. You on the other hand is just negative negative negative.

smith&wesson
08-14-2012, 07:54 PM
Efficiency is efficiency.
A missed shot is a missed shot regardless of position.

There are not many C's capable of scoring on high volume while remaining efficient and most of the ones that were are All-Time great scorers like Shaq, Kareem and Hakeem/Wilt.

I am not necessarily even saying that Kobe can't lead the team in PPG only that he shouldn't shoot so much that he becomes inefficient like he was this past season.

so you see no difference in a C's fg% then a sg's or a sf's fg% :confused:

lets use kevin durant and andrew bynum as examples.

bynum and kevin durant will never have similar fg% because they play different positions. this means bynums shots are all high % compared to durant who can score from anyhwere. doesnt mean bynum is the better scorer.

howard is an over all better player then kobe right now. but he is def not a better scorer..

i would say bynum is a better offensive player then howard is.

duane v
08-14-2012, 08:03 PM
The team is not gonna have options. People are just gonna have roles. The guys know that. Stop trying to find ******** ways that make the Lakers look bad.

Sorry but we didnt pick up DH just to be a role player.... Dwight is in LA to make a big impact, and to replace Kobe as "the man in LA" after his contract ends in 2014.

duane v
08-14-2012, 08:08 PM
i would say bynum is a better offensive player then howard is.

We shall see when Bynum doesnt have Gasol and Kobe around

smith&wesson
08-14-2012, 08:23 PM
We shall see when Bynum doesnt have Gasol and Kobe around

all thats going to mean for bynum is more touches. . . dont get me wrong howard is the better two way and over all player. but bynum edges him out offensivley imo.

Bruno
08-14-2012, 09:04 PM
Another garbage thread by NYSpirit1. if there's ever been a poster who should have their thread making abilities suspended, it would be him. constant trash flooding the NBA forum with this guy.

RapOZo
08-14-2012, 09:52 PM
kobe used to score almost 30 along side shaq who also scored 30+

kobe averaged 28 ppg just LAST SEASON (2nd in the league and being scoring leader for several months of the season), that's with both pau and bynum right there at almost 20 ppg

what makes you think that kobe ppg will drop 10 points by replacing an 18 ppg with a 20 ppg???
I know he is aging, but without an injury his scoring won't drop more than 3-4 points, and if anything, dwight's stronger present and dominance in the low post could just open kobe a few more mid range shots than before.

so you are just cross fingered wishing that your hate-lead non-sense happens

Aust
08-14-2012, 09:56 PM
Lets let this thread die

Bishnoff
08-14-2012, 10:58 PM
Kobe is going to beast getting easy looks off Nash passes. Nash will make Kobe, Gasol, and Dwight better, but I still think that this is Kobe's team and he'll still be the #1 scoring option.

dh144498
08-15-2012, 10:22 AM
When did he ever prove that?

He only won 1 Title as the clear #1 and engine of a team in 2009 despite having a Top 3-5 supporting cast from 08-12.

So... yeah he never proved anything close to that.

Shaq, Duncan and Jordan are the only players in recent history to lead multiple teams to titles as #1's.

Kobe may be the vocal/spiritual leader of this team but D12 is inarguably the best player on the team and will be the biggest reason for its success if they do end up winning it all.


you have lost credibility long before this post, but after the bolded part you have proven yourself to be just a biased hater. You should speak with logic, not emotion.

Andrew32
08-15-2012, 11:12 AM
you have lost credibility long before this post, but after the bolded part you have proven yourself to be just a biased hater. You should speak with logic, not emotion.
Irony at its best. :clap:

The truth is that you are the one speaking from emotion and obvious bias for your favorite player and have lost your credibility.

I don't feel any emotion towards basketball players.
I am not a child and I do not "hate" any basketball player.

The simple facts, performances and the stats show that Gasol was at the very least just as important and valuable as Kobe was in that specific run.

He was the MVP of the two toughest series that year and led the team in playoff WShares by a huge margin.

I know you love Kobe and he da bess and you will choose ignorance over the truth so you can keep viewing him in the best possible light and keep pretending that he was better then he actually was.

I could care less what you think about me and believe it or not you aren't the guy who gives out or takes away credibility (nor am I).

-Take care. :hi5:

RaiderLakersA's
08-15-2012, 11:54 AM
Lets let this thread die

Amen

YankeesR#2
08-15-2012, 12:04 PM
I think this is a valid thread because it seems the only thing that can stop the lakers is kobe's ego. Gasol may buy K-9 jelly by the case but I think having Howard is going to make him a better basketball player. Nash has definitely lost a step and his defense is atrocious but he functions best on a team that scores a lot of points.

The only other thing that can stop the lakers is if kobe's dark side comes back out and he is arrested for rape again.

ztilzer31
08-15-2012, 12:05 PM
Once again Lakers fans can't handle the truth that Kobe will have problems playing with Nash.

Kobe quote "You think I'm going to hang around this league scoring 15 ppg? Heck no man!"

Kobe has no interest in stepping down from his role. He'll expect the ball often, and when they try to run the offense through Nash he'll complain. I see L.A. being a wreck this season, and I see them losing in the Western Conference Finals. It'll be funny hearing the excuses, but Nash is not as good as people are making him out to be, and Dwight is not that much better than Bynum. Also this team is old, without a lot of depth.

ztilzer31
08-15-2012, 12:07 PM
Oh and for the record Kobe has 2 Finals MVP's not 3 like some ****** said earlier.

AndyfromNeptune
08-15-2012, 12:27 PM
Guys, feel free to quote me on this.

Doesn't it seem clear that Nash will take the greatest hit in points per game because of this trade? I can see him averaging 10 ppg this season along with 11 or 12 assists.

Everyone else should probably maintain their levels of scoring. However, I wouldn't be surprised if their efficiency increased due to their points coming within the flow of the offense.

The Lakers pace will most likely dictate how much each player scores.

Kashmir13579
08-15-2012, 12:36 PM
Kobe will do what it takes to win. I truly believe that, now more than ever. He has the individual accolades. He has the individual glory. Now its time to put the icing on the cake. If Kobe doesn't let his box-score aspirations get in the way, there is no reason this Lakers team can't dominate all the way to the finals. (barring injuries of course)

Kashmir13579
08-15-2012, 12:40 PM
In my estimation, we will see Kobe's version of the Paul Pierce transformation.