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View Full Version : 2012 Mock Offseason Playoffs: 4 Orlando Magic vs. 5 Toronto Raptors



Catfish1314
08-07-2012, 02:26 AM
Every summer, PSD holds a game which mocks that year's NBA offseason. This year, users from the site were randomly assigned the reigns of NBA franchises and had to utilize their skills via draft, trades, and free agency to improve their teams. At the end of the game, GMs voted on how they believed the regular season of this game would shake up. These are the playoffs of PSD's 2012 NBA Mock Offseason.

Please take the time to consider each line up, the match-up itself, and which team you believe would win in a seven game series.

The Magic have homecourt advantage in this Eastern Conference Quarterfinal series.

Magic Depth Chart:

C – Pau Gasol / Kurt Thomas / Bernard Scott
PF – Ryan Anderson / Marion / Jeremy Evans / Khris Middleton
SF – Shawn Marion / Brandon Roy
SG - Kevin Martin / Chauncey Billups / Roy
PG – Jrue Holliday / Derek Fisher

Raptors Depth Chart:

C-Al Jefferson / Timofey Mozgov
PF-Emeka Okafor / Matt Bonner / Josh McRoberts
SF-Tayshaun Prince / Quentin Richardson / Austin Daye
SG-Joe Johnson / C.J. Miles
PG-Mike Conley / Will Bynum

Raptors Write-up:


PG: Mike Conley VS Jrue Holiday
Mike Conley is one of the most underrated Point Guards in the game. He is the cog in the Grizzlies team that made a deep playoff run not 2 years ago. He’s a solid scorer, and a great young playmaker that makes things happen. He has an above average PER (average is 15) of 16.8, while Holliday has a sub average score of 14.7. Holliday has struggled offensively, while Conley continues to improve. ¬

SG: Joe Johnson VS Kevin Martin
We feel like this is one of our best matchups. Joe Johnson is a premier player at the SG position. PSD Ranked him as the 5th best SG in the NBA. Kevin Martin is a good offensive player, but he is completely one sided. Joe Johnson will be able to score at will against Kevin Martin, which gives us our strongest matchup. We feel like we have a sizable advantage here.

SF: Tayshaun Prince VS Shawn Marion
Both players are past their prime but Prince is still a solid contributor, and Marion has steadily slipped for the past. Honestly, this position is a wash between the two teams with no clear advantage. We also plan to rotate Prince over to Anderson while Anderson looks for 3’s. Marion is not a good 3 point shooter (sub .300 for the past 6 seasons) and will have trouble scoring against Okafor in the paint.

PF + C: Emeka Okafor + Al Jefferson VS Ryan Anderson + Pau Gasol
Defensively, we’re going to put Okafor on Gasol. Okafor is a much better defender and will really restrict Gasol from being the #1 option. Okafor will really slow down Gasol and force the ball elsewhere. Jefferson will cover Anderson, while we also rotate Prince over on Anderson to combat his effectiveness from behind the arc. Marion isn’t a great shooter, and has shot sub .300 from behind the arc for the past 6 seasons, so Jefferson will be able to handle his post game.

Overall
We feel that the Magic just don’t have the firepower to deal with us in the paint. Al Jefferson will abuse both Gasol and Anderson, and they don’t have any kind of defensive big man to stop him, not to mention that they have zero depth at the PF position. If Anderson or Gasol gets into foul trouble our big men will have no problem scoring inside. Joe Johnson is a premier scoring threat that will be able to abuse Kevin Martin and his terrible defense. Brandon Roy is their best bench player, and there’s no guarantee that his knees can hold up. Roy will most likely never be the player he once was.

We feel that we can beat the Magic both on the outside with Johnson, and in the paint with Jefferson, while Okafor and Prince lead the defensive attack.

PatsSoxKnicks
08-07-2012, 02:45 AM
Close matchup and not really leaning either way. Will wait for the Magic to counter

raiderposting
08-07-2012, 02:50 AM
I love the Gasol and Anderson combo for the magic.

The_Jamal
08-07-2012, 02:53 AM
finally, an actual match-up we can debate

juggla53
08-07-2012, 03:04 AM
very very close but i went with the magic because i think their bench is just a bit better with billups coming off the bench and if roy is at all healthy i still think he can give you 15/5/5

SugeKnight
08-07-2012, 03:15 AM
Im going Raptors. Orlando has no frontcourt size or depth. Jefferson would bully the Magic.

N3TS
08-07-2012, 03:39 AM
This is a hard one, but I would give the raptors a slight nod over the Magicc.

Corey
08-07-2012, 11:46 AM
I like Jefferson in the post against that frontcourt. I think Emeka would be able to contain and limit Gasol pretty effectively. Magic have a better bench, but the Raptors starting lineup is more balanced IMO.

Super.
08-07-2012, 12:48 PM
Who is going to stop Al Jefferson, the answer is no one. Marion is washed up and Joe Johnson would ****ing go off on Kevin Martin. Their best defender is Marion who's used up guarding Prince. The Magic legitimately have not a chance to stop Jefferson and Johnson with Martin and Gasol

DR_1
08-07-2012, 12:55 PM
Magic in 5

Super.
08-07-2012, 01:16 PM
Magic in 5

Oh please do explain, I'm, quite curious to see if you have any rational behind this or if your mad

B'sCeltsPatsSox
08-07-2012, 01:20 PM
This is a very tough vote. I'm leaning a little towards the Magic because I think their bench is a bit better than the Raptors



Oh please do explain, I'm, quite curious to see if you have any rational behind this or if your mad

:laugh2:

Corey
08-07-2012, 01:30 PM
:laugh:

DR_1
08-07-2012, 01:30 PM
Oh please do explain, I'm, quite curious to see if you have any rational behind this or if your mad

Sure thing
Pau>Al Jeff
Anderson>Okafor
Marion>Prince
Johnson<Martin
Jrue>Conley

Other than that, it's pretty close.

Hawkeye15
08-07-2012, 01:59 PM
Magic in 7 for me.

Super.
08-07-2012, 03:06 PM
Sure thing
Pau>Al Jeff
Anderson>Okafor
Marion>Prince
Johnson<Martin
Jrue>Conley

Other than that, it's pretty close.

Prince and Marion have nearly identical numbers, with Prince being a better shooter. Marion is not better than Prince.

Jrue Holliday scores less, gets less assists, and is less efficient. Conley is the playmaker for a team that just made a deep playoff run not two seasons ago and has since progressed since then.

Okafor will be playing defense on Gasol, and neither Gasol nor Anderson are remotely good enough on defense to stop Jefferson.

Not to mention that Joe Johnson would be going off on Martin

RocketsRule
08-07-2012, 03:27 PM
Sure thing
Pau>Al Jeff
Anderson>Okafor
Marion>Prince
Johnson<Martin
Jrue>Conley

Other than that, it's pretty close.

:laugh:

The_Jamal
08-07-2012, 03:28 PM
Prince and Marion have nearly identical numbers, with Prince being a better shooter. Marion is not better than Prince.

Jrue Holliday scores less, gets less assists, and is less efficient. Conley is the playmaker for a team that just made a deep playoff run not two seasons ago and has since progressed since then.

Okafor will be playing defense on Gasol, and neither Gasol nor Anderson are remotely good enough on defense to stop Jefferson.

Not to mention that Joe Johnson would be going off on Martin

You seem to have forgotten about something called "defense"

Jrue and Marion are 2 of the better perimeter defenders for their respective positions. Knowing KoB, he'll have Marion on JJ which severely limits his game and Martin guarding Prince who isn't beating anybody on either end. While I'd say Conley is a better PG than Jrue, he certainly isn't good enough to overcome Jrue's defensive excellence. Al Jeff on Pau is a nice match-up advantage for you on the offensive end, but I'd hate to see Al Jeff having to guard all the way out to the 3pt line on Anderson. Also, Pau would have as much as an advantage on Okafor as Jefferson would have on Pau.

Overall, the talent is quite close, but the Magic have several advantages that work in their favor. They can hide Martin on a horrible offensive player, Prince. Jrue and Marion can play superb defense on the Raptors 2nd and 3rd options. Al Jeff having to defend a perimeter player like Anderson is a disaster waiting to happen.

Great job to both teams, but the Magic win this in 7 games

KnicksorBust
08-07-2012, 03:29 PM
No GMs vote here section? Anyway, I think this would be a great matchup but I disagree with some of the statements the Raptors have been making.

First of all, Marion is still elite defensively. He'd be guarding Joe Johnson while Martin spent time on Prince.

Secondly, the Raptors repeatedly harped on Marion's lack of a perimeter game as if that would severely hurt my team. I have Jrue, Billups, Martin, and Ryan Anderson to space the floor. If anything, perimeter shooting is one of my biggest strengths.

Thirdly, Al Jefferson has had a carer of bad games vs. Gasol including a recent 2-16 outing last year. (and no Bynum did not play a minute in the game). http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jeffeal01&p2=gasolpa01

Fourth, Al Jefferson was 206th guarding spot-up shooters. Do they really believe he'd be effective as a 7 footer out on the wing guarding Ryan Anderson?

Overall I think this is a good matchup and I look forward to a good debate. GL to my opponent.

KnicksorBust
08-07-2012, 03:31 PM
You seem to have forgotten about something called "defense"

Jrue and Marion are 2 of the better perimeter defenders for their respective positions. Knowing KoB, he'll have Marion on JJ which severely limits his game and Martin guarding Prince who isn't beating anybody on either end. While I'd say Conley is a better PG than Jrue, he certainly isn't good enough to overcome Jrue's defensive excellence. Al Jeff on Pau is a nice match-up advantage for you on the offensive end, but I'd hate to see Al Jeff having to guard all the way out to the 3pt line on Anderson. Also, Pau would have as much as an advantage on Okafor as Jefferson would have on Pau.

Overall, the talent is quite close, but the Magic have several advantages that work in their favor. They can hide Martin on a horrible offensive player, Prince. Jrue and Marion can play superb defense on the Raptors 2nd and 3rd options. Al Jeff having to defend a perimeter player like Anderson is a disaster waiting to happen.

Great job to both teams, but the Magic win this in 7 games

Pretty much sums it up.

DR_1
08-07-2012, 03:42 PM
Jamal pretty much stole all of my reply :laugh2:

EDIT: Super I meant to put JJ>KMart

RocketsRule
08-07-2012, 03:43 PM
You seem to have forgotten about something called "defense"

Jrue and Marion are 2 of the better perimeter defenders for their respective positions. Knowing KoB, he'll have Marion on JJ which severely limits his game and Martin guarding Prince who isn't beating anybody on either end. While I'd say Conley is a better PG than Jrue, he certainly isn't good enough to overcome Jrue's defensive excellence. Al Jeff on Pau is a nice match-up advantage for you on the offensive end, but I'd hate to see Al Jeff having to guard all the way out to the 3pt line on Anderson. Also, Pau would have as much as an advantage on Okafor as Jefferson would have on Pau.

Overall, the talent is quite close, but the Magic have several advantages that work in their favor. They can hide Martin on a horrible offensive player, Prince. Jrue and Marion can play superb defense on the Raptors 2nd and 3rd options. Al Jeff having to defend a perimeter player like Anderson is a disaster waiting to happen.

Great job to both teams, but the Magic win this in 7 games

You're severely overrating both Holiday's and Marion's defensive abilities.

While Holiday is an above average defender due to his athletic ability, he is by no means going to hinder Conley's offensive ability that much. Conley higher IQ will and ability to play off of Joe Johnson and Al Jefferson will greatly open up his game. In fact he burned Holiday in a win versus the Sixers last year for 22 points on 9-17 shooting, while Holiday only had 10 points on 4-10 shooting from the field.

Marion also isn't the elite, lock-down defender he was years ago. He's 34 years old and has lost most of his athletic ability. He'll have a tough time slowing Johnson to a complete halt. In a head to head match-up against the Dallas Mavericks (not entirely sure if Marion guarded him) Johnson lit them up for 15 points on 7-11 shooting in only 24 minutes. So to say either of these players will be limited to a high degree by Marion or Holiday is simply not true.

You also should not assume that KoB is going to put Marion on Joe Johnson, because that's what a write-up is for. If he doesn't do one, you shouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt :shrug:

EDIT: Nevermind, now he said it.

Ill21
08-07-2012, 03:47 PM
Tough one but im going to take the Magic in 7

Sadds The Gr8
08-07-2012, 03:58 PM
You seem to have forgotten about something called "defense"

Jrue and Marion are 2 of the better perimeter defenders for their respective positions. Knowing KoB, he'll have Marion on JJ which severely limits his game and Martin guarding Prince who isn't beating anybody on either end. While I'd say Conley is a better PG than Jrue, he certainly isn't good enough to overcome Jrue's defensive excellence. Al Jeff on Pau is a nice match-up advantage for you on the offensive end, but I'd hate to see Al Jeff having to guard all the way out to the 3pt line on Anderson. Also, Pau would have as much as an advantage on Okafor as Jefferson would have on Pau.

Overall, the talent is quite close, but the Magic have several advantages that work in their favor. They can hide Martin on a horrible offensive player, Prince. Jrue and Marion can play superb defense on the Raptors 2nd and 3rd options. Al Jeff having to defend a perimeter player like Anderson is a disaster waiting to happen.

Great job to both teams, but the Magic win this in 7 games
this

Super.
08-07-2012, 05:24 PM
this

Did you not read the part where I said Prince will be rotating out on Anderson at the 3 point line?

Also, Marion just had the WORST shooting performance in his career in eFG%. Marion is not a good shooter, and would be forced to score down low against Jefferson, which is a terrible mismatch for Marion.

xxplayerxx23
08-07-2012, 05:31 PM
Very very close, But I went Raps in 7.

KnicksorBust
08-07-2012, 05:47 PM
Did you not read the part where I said Prince will be rotating out on Anderson at the 3 point line?

Also, Marion just had the WORST shooting performance in his career in eFG%. Marion is not a good shooter, and would be forced to score down low against Jefferson, which is a terrible mismatch for Marion.

Two quick thoughts:

1. Now you're putting your center on my SF?

2. Why are you so focused on trying to shut down my 5th option?

KnicksorBust
08-07-2012, 05:49 PM
You're severely overrating both Holiday's and Marion's defensive abilities.

While Holiday is an above average defender due to his athletic ability, he is by no means going to hinder Conley's offensive ability that much. Conley higher IQ will and ability to play off of Joe Johnson and Al Jefferson will greatly open up his game. In fact he burned Holiday in a win versus the Sixers last year for 22 points on 9-17 shooting, while Holiday only had 10 points on 4-10 shooting from the field.

Marion also isn't the elite, lock-down defender he was years ago. He's 34 years old and has lost most of his athletic ability. He'll have a tough time slowing Johnson to a complete halt. In a head to head match-up against the Dallas Mavericks (not entirely sure if Marion guarded him) Johnson lit them up for 15 points on 7-11 shooting in only 24 minutes. So to say either of these players will be limited to a high degree by Marion or Holiday is simply not true.

You also should not assume that KoB is going to put Marion on Joe Johnson, because that's what a write-up is for. If he doesn't do one, you shouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt :shrug:

EDIT: Nevermind, now he said it.

If anything Jrue's defense is underrated... For the season, Jrue held opponents to 33% from the field. He, Iggy, and Brand turned that Sixer's team to an elite defense.

The_Jamal
08-07-2012, 06:45 PM
Two quick thoughts:

1. Now you're putting your center on my SF?

2. Why are you so focused on trying to shut down my 5th option?

Exactly my thoughts lol. How is Al Jeff chasing the far more athletic Shawn Marion going to help?

broncosfan4eva
08-07-2012, 07:10 PM
after reading deeper into this i would say the magic would win haha, Raptors hurt themselves by talkin in this thread. LOL

DR_1
08-07-2012, 07:21 PM
after reading deeper into this i would say the magic would win haha, Raptors hurt themselves by talkin in this thread. LOL

:laugh2:

juggla53
08-07-2012, 08:19 PM
You're severely overrating both Holiday's and Marion's defensive abilities.

While Holiday is an above average defender due to his athletic ability, he is by no means going to hinder Conley's offensive ability that much. Conley higher IQ will and ability to play off of Joe Johnson and Al Jefferson will greatly open up his game. In fact he burned Holiday in a win versus the Sixers last year for 22 points on 9-17 shooting, while Holiday only had 10 points on 4-10 shooting from the field.

Marion also isn't the elite, lock-down defender he was years ago. He's 34 years old and has lost most of his athletic ability. He'll have a tough time slowing Johnson to a complete halt. In a head to head match-up against the Dallas Mavericks (not entirely sure if Marion guarded him) Johnson lit them up for 15 points on 7-11 shooting in only 24 minutes. So to say either of these players will be limited to a high degree by Marion or Holiday is simply not true.

You also should not assume that KoB is going to put Marion on Joe Johnson, because that's what a write-up is for. If he doesn't do one, you shouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt :shrug:

EDIT: Nevermind, now he said it.

so you are throwing out stats from a game where you claim to not have a clue if marion even guarded him? probabley should have left that one out of your response. i agree wth several others you kind of ruined this series for yourself

RocketsRule
08-07-2012, 08:29 PM
Two quick thoughts:

1. Now you're putting your center on my SF?

2. Why are you so focused on trying to shut down my 5th option?

Let me clarify this:

No, we are not putting Prince on Anderson while all three of them (three being Al Jefferson, Emeka Okafor and Tayshaun Prince) are on the floor. However, we can rotate Prince to the PF position simply to guard Anderson while he is out on the floor. Simply a better match-up.

I for one see no problem placing Jefferson on Anderson. All Anderson does is camp out at the three point line and all Jefferson would have to do is put a hand in his face. The reason why Jefferson is such a liability on defense is because he's so slow. By placing him on Anderson, who is just as slow, he will not have to move nearly as much, making it much easier on him on defense.

RocketsRule
08-07-2012, 08:32 PM
so you are throwing out stats from a game where you claim to not have a clue if marion even guarded him? probabley should have left that one out of your response. i agree wth several others you kind of ruined this series for yourself

Well, it's not unfair to think that Marion had to have guarded Joe Johnson for at least some duration of the time. He's there best defender and Joe Johnson was the Hawks best offensive player. I was just clarifying the point that I'm not sure how often Marion was used on Johnson.

Leaving it out would leave me with no basis what so ever, so I'd rather have some factual evidence to support my claim.

As for drose, you lost all of my basketball respect long ago. At this point I have no reason to think you are in here other than to insult and ridicule us.

RocketsRule
08-07-2012, 08:34 PM
If anything Jrue's defense is underrated... For the season, Jrue held opponents to 33% from the field. He, Iggy, and Brand turned that Sixer's team to an elite defense.

I'm not arguing that Holiday is a capable defender, I'm simply stating there is no way he would cancel out Mike Conley which was being assumed. Conley himself is just as capable defensively.

The_Jamal
08-07-2012, 08:57 PM
I'm not arguing that Holiday is a capable defender, I'm simply stating there is no way he would cancel out Mike Conley which was being assumed. Conley himself is just as capable defensively.

Actually, yes there is. Conley is a nice PG and severley underrated on PSD, but he is not elite at anything. I can make an argument for Holiday as a top 3 defensive PG without much of an effort. While Conley is a good defensive player, he means hell of a lot more to the Raptors than Holiday does to the Magic offensively.

RocketsRule
08-07-2012, 11:35 PM
Actually, yes there is. Conley is a nice PG and severley underrated on PSD, but he is not elite at anything. I can make an argument for Holiday as a top 3 defensive PG without much of an effort. While Conley is a good defensive player, he means hell of a lot more to the Raptors than Holiday does to the Magic offensively.

I already provided you with a game from this past season where the two PG's went head to head and Conley had no problem scoring the ball. Your claim that he will hinder him so severely is going unjustified. I acknowledge that he is a solid defender, but to go on to state that he will shut-down Conley is insane.

The_Jamal
08-08-2012, 01:18 AM
I already provided you with a game from this past season where the two PG's went head to head and Conley had no problem scoring the ball. Your claim that he will hinder him so severely is going unjustified. I acknowledge that he is a solid defender, but to go on to state that he will shut-down Conley is insane.

Why are you using a game from 2 seasons ago? Holiday dominated the match-up this season:

Holiday-22 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists on 9/18 shooting in 35 minutes
Conley- 9 points, 6 assists, 3 steals on 4/14 shooting in 36 minutes

I'd call that shutting down Conley fairly easily

PatsSoxKnicks
08-08-2012, 09:20 AM
A bit more convinced by the Magic argument- mainly because they seem to be a bit more focused on stats for the entire season while the Raptors are using stats from random games here and there (aka small sample size). If you're going to use head to head, at least use more than 1 game to give you more of a factual basis.

As for the matchup, like the Raptors backcourt against the Magic backcourt but actually like the Magic frontcourt with Pau more then I like the Raptors backcourt. Anderson is also a good floor spacer. Also, the 3-4-5 for the Raptors doesn't provide much floor spacing and I like the Magic bench better.