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View Full Version : An idea to resolve how the draft rewards mediocrity



brebre82
08-01-2012, 12:52 PM
As we know, there is a structural flaw in the way teams receive their lottery chances... and a lack of reward in winning a championship.

In my opinion, the championship, and #1 overall draft pick should go together. Reward the team that does the best... in a tangible, team benefitting way.

So yes, this year, Miami should have draft rights to AD. OKC to the #2 and so on so forth. No lottery, no luck. The better you do, the higher your draft pick.

Yes maybe good teams will get better.

To counter this, when a team such as Cleveland or Toronto loses an all star to free agency, they are given compensation picks by Miami.. the number of which is determined by the tier of player lost, much like the system in place for baseball. Quantitatively determine the tier of a Lebron or KD, vs that of a Bosh. That way, the team that loses their player, benefits from the other team's success.

For example with Miami acquiring Bosh/Lebron.

Lebron = Tier 1 = Two years of first picks. (Mia's 2012 & 2013 1st pick)
Bosh = Tier 2 = 1 Yr of draft pick. (Mia's 2011 1st pick)

The player that signed first was Bosh. Last year, Miami finished second. Toronto gets the 2nd pick in the 2011 draft (Dallas would have gotten Kyrie.)

Lebron signed after. Miami won the title this year. Cavs get #1 pick i.e. Davis. As well as the pick equivalent of where Miami finishes next year.

And this is where OKC would have put their team together 'the right way'. Keeping high picks, and being competitive. While Miami could win as many titles, and not a high draft pick come their way.

I believe that this will make the league more competitive, encourage an even playing field, deter teams from forming overly superteams through FA, and most of all... eliminate the tanking mentality.

In my opinion, this problem needs to be remedied, even if not by the means I just mentioned.

Share your opinions! :)

Edit: Look, a championship team will attract free agents on the cheap. Look at Payton and Malone. Same thing with Mia. I for one, actually believe, that such teams may be more willing to part with their prospects (maybe not on a year when the next MJ is slated to arrive) because they are in compete mode. Not develop mode. So a rebuilding team could offer a competing team a package of established players for their rookie.

Just wanted to add, that most here are assuming that top pick will go to Mia or OKC or the Lakers.
What if was Dallas, or the Bulls, or San Antonio, or Boston got it? Clippers? Memphis?
Lets say Boston got #4 this year. And they wanted to push Mia... they could trade that #4 for veterans... they could take that gamble. So, it becomes an arms race at the top. Would Mia have to make similar moves with the only expendable asset they possess? It puts them in a situation to choose between current and future talent. And they could potentially offload their rookies to rebuilding teams for veterans to compete with Boston who just got 'right now' value for their #4.

And, because of the compensation system, when these rebuilding teams net a player of potential.. they can develop, AND keep him. Or her, if it's Bosh.

LongIslandIcedZ
08-01-2012, 12:57 PM
lol no thank you.

What chance do you have to compete if you're rebuilding and cant get a free agent to commit. Normally you'd build through the draft, but now you need to bank on getting a steal all-star with the 30th overall pick? First round picks would never be traded by top teams, making it even harder to rebuild.

You're of course entitled to your opinion, but I think you're crazy.

GoPacers33
08-01-2012, 12:57 PM
Lol what a terrible idea

dhopisthename
08-01-2012, 12:57 PM
lol the league would die in 3 years if you did this. no offense dude but this is just REALLY bad

JLynn943
08-01-2012, 01:00 PM
As we know, there is a structural flaw in the way teams receive their lottery chances... and a lack of reward in winning a championship.

In my opinion, the championship, and #1 overall draft pick should go together. Reward the team that does the best... in a tangible, team benefitting way.

So yes, this year, Miami should have draft rights to AD. OKC to the #2 and so on so forth. No lottery, no luck. The better you do, the higher your draft pick.

Yes maybe good teams will get better.

To counter this, when a team such as Cleveland or Toronto loses an all star to free agency, they are given compensation picks by Miami.. the number of which is determined by the tier of player lost, much like the system in place for baseball. Quantitatively determine the tier of a Lebron or KD, vs that of a Bosh. That way, the team that loses their player, benefits from the other team's success.

And this is where OKC would have put their team together 'the right way'. Keeping high picks, and being competitive. While Miami could win as many titles, and not a high draft pick come their way.

I believe that this will make the league more competitive, encourage an even playing field, deter teams from forming overly superteams through FA, and most of all... eliminate the tanking mentality.

In my opinion, this problem needs to be remedied, even if not by the means I just mentioned.

Share your opinions! :)

Edit: This is a simple idea, not completely original. And that it why is so baffling how the NBA does not implement a similar system.

Except within 5 years there will be no all-stars anywhere but on the top teams (because obviously not all top picks turn into all-stars). Thank God you have no say in how the league is run, because this would kill it. One of the stupidest ideas I've read on the NBA forum, and that's a serious accomplishment.

(of course you're entitled to your opinion and at least presented it well, but come on...)

NoahH
08-01-2012, 01:00 PM
Technically it makes sense and works on paper. Toronto and Cleveland would get high picks in 2011 and 2012 so since Miami came 2nd last year Cleveland would get 2 (not Kyrie) and Toronto might get 5? This year Cleveland would get 1 (AD) and Toronto would get 5ish again? But that's only for a S&T, can they really make a team give up picks to a team if the player simply leaves as a FA? I don't think so. Then you might have the Heat getting (AD) this year because they didn't do a S&T (hypothetically)

I don't think it could work in the NBA tho

b@llhog24
08-01-2012, 01:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHZnzFVZ3_o

brebre82
08-01-2012, 01:06 PM
lol no thank you.

What chance do you have to compete if you're rebuilding and cant get a free agent to commit. Normally you'd build through the draft, but now you need to bank on getting a steal all-star with the 30th overall pick? First round picks would never be traded by top teams, making it even harder to rebuild.

You're of course entitled to your opinion, but I think you're crazy.

I might be :D
But the thing here is: If you do land your star... you have a higher chance of retaining him.

The teams will no longer trade picks, but give them up when they sign a FA that falls into the all star category. And if, according to you, the top teams do not want to lose that pick... it will reduce the chances of them signing top free agents. That way, mediocre teams will maintain their core, instead of building around one player, and having what they build over the past few years blow up on them when they guys decides to leave. I think this way rebuilding will be accelerated, simply because you can concentrate on rebuilding without worrying about losing your centerpiece.

I Rock Shaqs
08-01-2012, 01:09 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHA If you read past the first sentence idk what to tell you lol.

brebre82
08-01-2012, 01:09 PM
Except within 5 years there will be no all-stars anywhere but on the top teams (because obviously not all top picks turn into all-stars). Thank God you have no say in how the league is run, because this would kill it. One of the stupidest ideas I've read on the NBA forum, and that's a serious accomplishment.

(of course you're entitled to your opinion and at least presented it well, but come on...)

And you are as well. But kindly explain as to why you think there won't be any all stars except the top teams

brebre82
08-01-2012, 01:13 PM
Technically it makes sense and works on paper. Toronto and Cleveland would get high picks in 2011 and 2012 so since Miami came 2nd last year Cleveland would get 2 (not Kyrie) and Toronto might get 5? This year Cleveland would get 1 (AD) and Toronto would get 5ish again? But that's only for a S&T, can they really make a team give up picks to a team if the player simply leaves as a FA? I don't think so. Then you might have the Heat getting (AD) this year because they didn't do a S&T (hypothetically)

I don't think it could work in the NBA tho

No, actually what I meant was.. for example with Miami and Bosh/Lebron.

Lebron = Tier 1 = Two years of first picks. (Mia's 2012 & 2013 1st pick)
Bosh = Tier 2 = 1 Yr of draft pick. (Mia's 2011 1st pick)

So, the player that signed first was Bosh. Last year, Miami finished second. Toronto gets the 2nd pick in the draft... Dallas would have gotten Kyrie.

Lebron signed after. Miami won the title this year. Cavs get #1 pick i.e. Davis. As well as the pick equivalent of where Miami finishes next year.

As a fan of a rebuilding team, I can see the benefit in such a scheme.

LakersIn5
08-01-2012, 01:15 PM
i like it

cue the "says a laker fan" comment

brebre82
08-01-2012, 01:16 PM
i like it

cue the "says a laker fan" comment

Thanks man... I was starting to worry that I may be an idiot :ohno:

LongIslandIcedZ
08-01-2012, 01:19 PM
I might be :D
But the thing here is: If you do land your star... you have a higher chance of retaining him.

The teams will no longer trade picks, but give them up when they sign a FA that falls into the all star category. And if, according to you, the top teams do not want to lose that pick... it will reduce the chances of them signing top free agents. That way, mediocre teams will maintain their core, instead of building around one player, and having what they build over the past few years blow up on them when they guys decides to leave. I think this way rebuilding will be accelerated, simply because you can concentrate on rebuilding without worrying about losing your centerpiece.

While that does make it at least more enticing, if a team cannot somehow land an all star, then they are screwed. The league was lose a ton of teams while 5 teams just become incredible lol.

brebre82
08-01-2012, 01:24 PM
While that does make it at least more enticing, if a team cannot somehow land an all star, then they are screwed. The league was lose a ton of teams while 5 teams just become incredible lol.

I'm actually thinking from a rebuilding perspective. I think the opposite, actually. I don't think a small of teams will be incredible... because right now Free Agency is determining the formation of super teams. If you make them pay a price, they will be less inclined to mortgage their future. And if you read my previous post... it's a long term mortgage.

I feel that sometimes we think too much for bottom of the barrel teams. What about the teams in the middle? Are they not entitled to as much, or more than bottomfeeder teams?

blackjack_119
08-01-2012, 01:26 PM
Dumbest suggestion I have seen in a while. The way the best teams should be rewarded is... THE CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

valade16
08-01-2012, 01:29 PM
The biggest problem I see with this system is what about the teams that become elite without getting the star FAs?

They'd just be stockpiling talent like crazy. OKC would've got the 2nd pick in this draft, and would probably get a Top 3 pick for the next 8 years.

I think that pretty much destroys any competitive fairness the league would have...

LongIslandIcedZ
08-01-2012, 01:30 PM
I'm actually thinking from a rebuilding perspective. I think the opposite, actually. I don't think a small of teams will be incredible... because right now Free Agency is determining the formation of super teams. If you make them pay a price, they will be less inclined to mortgage their future. And if you read my previous post... it's a long term mortgage.

I feel that sometimes we think too much for bottom of the barrel teams. What about the teams in the middle? Are they not entitled to as much, or more than bottomfeeder teams?

I'll definitely admit, it's not nearly as crazy as when I first read it. However, lets say the Heat win next year, not a great stretch. So they would end up with the number 1 pick and end up with Noels? They havent signed any marquee free agents, so I would assume that they would keep that number pick. So at that point Miami would be set. They would only make veterans minimum signings and build around Chalmers/Wade/Lebron/Bosh/Noel. Whats stopping them from losing their pick for the next 10 years?

brebre82
08-01-2012, 01:32 PM
The biggest problem I see with this system is what about the teams that become elite without getting the star FAs?

They'd just be stockpiling talent like crazy. OKC would've got the 2nd pick in this draft, and would probably get a Top 3 pick for the next 8 years.

I think that pretty much destroys any competitive fairness the league would have...

Exactly. But how often does a team like OKC come along? Scouting would be at a premium. OKC will be the king, no doubt about that. But they are an anomaly. You can't prepare for something that happens once in a lifetime.

brebre82
08-01-2012, 01:35 PM
I'll definitely admit, it's not nearly as crazy as when I first read it. However, lets say the Heat win next year, not a great stretch. So they would end up with the number 1 pick and end up with Noels? They havent signed any marquee free agents, so I would assume that they would keep that number pick. So at that point Miami would be set. They would only make veterans minimum signings and build around Chalmers/Wade/Lebron/Bosh/Noel. Whats stopping them from losing their pick for the next 10 years?

The fact that Wade Lebron and Bosh will not be able to sustain their level for 10 years. And they are favorites to get the #1 pick every year, but not a lock. And they have to develop that #1 talent, even if drafted. And, the draft is a hit and miss. And dynasties are fine. Look around, there will be the Barcelona FCs and Yankees of the world no matter what system. And just because of their presence, it doesn't mean the league isn't competitive.

Edit: tbh if a team becomes super this way, i can live with it better than crap one year, Miami Heat/Boston Cs the next.

JLynn943
08-01-2012, 01:38 PM
And you are as well. But kindly explain as to why you think there won't be any all stars except the top teams
What would most likely happen is that a team would lose their all-star, get some draft picks, and draft some good players as well as some that don't pan out. If they happen to draft an all-star, they'll be relevant for a little and then just lose him and be back to the gamble of the lottery. Their team just becomes less and less competitive as the championship teams are automatically either signing all-stars or getting top draft picks to keep them a superpower, and the trend keeps going until the top teams build an unstoppable legacy of all-stars. Every year would be the same 4 teams in the finals with the only real competition being for who gets to lose to them in the playoffs.

The current system is far from perfect, but at least there is a chance a team that is not as talented can become competitive. It's not like teams are trying to suck and should be punished, but that's what you're doing.

LongIslandIcedZ
08-01-2012, 01:42 PM
The fact that Wade Lebron and Bosh will not be able to sustain their level for 10 years. And they are favorites to get the #1 pick every year, but not a lock. And they have to develop that #1 talent, even if drafted. And, the draft is a hit and miss. And dynasties are fine. Look around, there will be the Barcelona FCs and Yankees of the world no matter what system. And just because of their presence, it doesn't mean the league isn't competitive.

Edit: tbh if a team becomes super this way, i can live with it better than crap one year, Miami Heat/Boston Cs the next.

I agree that Wade/Lebron/Bosh will not sustain their current level of play for 10 years. But if the Heat (or OKC/LAL/NYK/Chicago) win 3 of the next 5 championships, than that is 3 more number 1 overall picks and 2 top 5 picks. By the time Wade/Lebron/Bosh start to deteriorate and breakdown, the giant influx of number one overall picks will already be playing at a high level. That will just keep on happening until Miami picks a slew of busts and someone else gets some studs. I understand your argument that no draft pick is guaranteed, but with a top 5 pick 5 years in a row, I'm willing to bet they hit on a couple.

Again, I do like the thought process, and I think there will be a way to implement a system that is similar. This situation just benefits the top few teams way too much.

brebre82
08-01-2012, 01:44 PM
What would most likely happen is that a team would lose their all-star, get some draft picks, and draft some good players as well as some that don't pan out. If they happen to draft an all-star, they'll be relevant for a little and then just lose him and be back to the gamble of the lottery. Their team just becomes less and less competitive as the championship teams are automatically either signing all-stars or getting top draft picks to keep them a superpower, and the trend keeps going until the top teams build an unstoppable legacy of all-stars. Every year would be the same 4 teams in the finals with the only real competition being for who gets to lose to them in the playoffs.

The current system is far from perfect, but at least there is a chance a team that is not as talented can become competitive. It's not like teams are trying to suck and should be punished, but that's what you're doing.

They would receive a pick, in addition to their own. More than likely a higher pick? Isn't that accelerated rebuilding?

Which team are you referring to? Irrelevant teams in the current climate have been irrelevant for a long time. I can honestly tell you the only team that successfully rebuilt was OKC.

Dude, where have u been? Fyi, teams ARE trying to suck. To get that higher pick.

brebre82
08-01-2012, 01:47 PM
I agree that Wade/Lebron/Bosh will not sustain their current level of play for 10 years. But if the Heat (or OKC/LAL/NYK/Chicago) win 3 of the next 5 championships, than that is 3 more number 1 overall picks and 2 top 5 picks. By the time Wade/Lebron/Bosh start to deteriorate and breakdown, the giant influx of number one overall picks will already be playing at a high level. That will just keep on happening until Miami picks a slew of busts and someone else gets some studs. I understand your argument that no draft pick is guaranteed, but with a top 5 pick 5 years in a row, I'm willing to bet they hit on a couple.

Again, I do like the thought process, and I think there will be a way to implement a system that is similar. This situation just benefits the top few teams way too much.

Nah, definitely. I am not saying that this idea is foolproof. By no means an expert, but I think that the NBA needs to go laissez faire and just relinquish that control... let things take their own course, instead of forcefully attempting to balance the league

Gritz
08-01-2012, 01:57 PM
As we know, there is a structural flaw in the way teams receive their lottery chances... and a lack of reward in winning a championship.

In my opinion, the championship, and #1 overall draft pick should go together. Reward the team that does the best... in a tangible, team benefitting way.

So yes, this year, Miami should have draft rights to AD. OKC to the #2 and so on so forth. No lottery, no luck. The better you do, the higher your draft pick.

Yes maybe good teams will get better.

To counter this, when a team such as Cleveland or Toronto loses an all star to free agency, they are given compensation picks by Miami.. the number of which is determined by the tier of player lost, much like the system in place for baseball. Quantitatively determine the tier of a Lebron or KD, vs that of a Bosh. That way, the team that loses their player, benefits from the other team's success.

For example with Miami acquiring Bosh/Lebron.

Lebron = Tier 1 = Two years of first picks. (Mia's 2012 & 2013 1st pick)
Bosh = Tier 2 = 1 Yr of draft pick. (Mia's 2011 1st pick)

The player that signed first was Bosh. Last year, Miami finished second. Toronto gets the 2nd pick in the 2011 draft (Dallas would have gotten Kyrie.)

Lebron signed after. Miami won the title this year. Cavs get #1 pick i.e. Davis. As well as the pick equivalent of where Miami finishes next year.

And this is where OKC would have put their team together 'the right way'. Keeping high picks, and being competitive. While Miami could win as many titles, and not a high draft pick come their way.

I believe that this will make the league more competitive, encourage an even playing field, deter teams from forming overly superteams through FA, and most of all... eliminate the tanking mentality.

In my opinion, this problem needs to be remedied, even if not by the means I just mentioned.

Share your opinions! :)

Edit: This is a simple idea, not completely original. And that it why is so baffling how the NBA does not implement a similar system.

This is positively the worse idea I've ever read on a sports forum or any forum in general. If any portion of this is serious, may God have mercy on your soul.

Thegame187
08-01-2012, 01:59 PM
Thanks man... I was starting to worry that I may be an idiot :ohno:


I would still worry........

JLynn943
08-01-2012, 02:01 PM
They would receive a pick, in addition to their own. More than likely a higher pick? Isn't that accelerated rebuilding?

Which team are you referring to? Irrelevant teams in the current climate have been irrelevant for a long time. I can honestly tell you the only team that successfully rebuilt was OKC.

Dude, where have u been? Fyi, teams ARE trying to suck. To get that higher pick.

Maybe one or two, but why punish those who are trying to get better? I'm a Kings fan, and trust me, we don't try to suck, we just aren't that good. We're on our way back up though courtesy of the draft.

Accelerated rebuilding, sure, unless of course the picks you get don't turn into an all-star. Then you're a bad team with absolutely zero means of improving. It's a system that promotes players deserting their teams. Teams will be constantly rebuilding until they miss on picks and are doomed to suck for eternity.

As for what team I'm referring to: LeBron was drafted by Cleveland and made them contenders almost instantly. Durant even without Westbrook or Harden would likely have done the same for OKC. These franchise-changing players, while rare, do exist. However, now even the possibility of a team getting them other than a championship team, is basically gone. You could even argue that the Clippers getting a star in a high draft pick Blake Griffin made them an attractive place for Paul (and another pick gave them the ammo for the trade), so the draft helped them as well.

And what teams have been irrelevant for a long time? The Kings, Hornets, Bobcats, Raptors, Cavs, etc were all relevant (playoff teams) in recent history. A couple of bad seasons should not doom a franchise for eternity.

scaramantula
08-01-2012, 02:04 PM
how would clevleand and toronto end up with lebron and bosh in the first place, if these rules were in place, lebron would have ended up with san antonio, and clevland would have no all star to get compensation for

Hawkeye15
08-01-2012, 02:10 PM
absolutely not. the balance of power would take decades to shift. So we are going to let Miami and OKC for instance reload on the top talent available over the next 5 years? Won't they just continue dominating?

I get that you are trying to come up with a way to have teams not tank, but its not possible in a sport where drafts are held. The lottery should be changed, and I have proposed the following:

Bottom 3 teams have a mini-lottery, even weighted.
Teams 4-10 have a mini-lottery, even weighted.
Teams 11-14 have a mini-lottery, even weighted.

It won't prevent tanking, but it would be pretty damn hard to drop from #9 to #4 in a span of 3 weeks, and my system would make that tank job completely unwarranted anyways. Teams would play out until almost the end, where the only jockeying would be in the #3-5, and #9-12 areas.

koreancabbage
08-01-2012, 02:18 PM
well it would definitely stop tanking LOL. which is great but there should be a strict salary cap and a defined # of Tier'd players. So each can have only 1-2 tier 1 players (like top 30 players) and (2 tier 2 players) etc etc. Stops the hoarding of superstar players and stuff.

might have to use a ESPN factor calculation in determining how well the player affects the game etc etc


iono just a suggestion.

brebre82
08-01-2012, 02:40 PM
Maybe one or two, but why punish those who are trying to get better? I'm a Kings fan, and trust me, we don't try to suck, we just aren't that good. We're on our way back up though courtesy of the draft.

Accelerated rebuilding, sure, unless of course the picks you get don't turn into an all-star. Then you're a bad team with absolutely zero means of improving. It's a system that promotes players deserting their teams. Teams will be constantly rebuilding until they miss on picks and are doomed to suck for eternity.

As for what team I'm referring to: LeBron was drafted by Cleveland and made them contenders almost instantly. Durant even without Westbrook or Harden would likely have done the same for OKC. These franchise-changing players, while rare, do exist. However, now even the possibility of a team getting them other than a championship team, is basically gone. You could even argue that the Clippers getting a star in a high draft pick Blake Griffin made them an attractive place for Paul (and another pick gave them the ammo for the trade), so the draft helped them as well.

And what teams have been irrelevant for a long time? The Kings, Hornets, Bobcats, Raptors, Cavs, etc were all relevant (playoff teams) in recent history. A couple of bad seasons should not doom a franchise for eternity.

Here's the flaw I am referring to. Yes, Cleveland did get Lebron, and he did turn the franchise around. But he left. And more importantly, the team he leaves for improves by such a margin that their picks dilute in value. Miami's picks that went to Cleveland didn't amount to much.

Imagine instead, that pick being proportional to where they finished in the playoffs. Cavs would have had #1, #2, and #4 in last year's draft. The transition from losing a star to a rebuild would take place much quicker.

brebre82
08-01-2012, 02:45 PM
absolutely not. the balance of power would take decades to shift. So we are going to let Miami and OKC for instance reload on the top talent available over the next 5 years? Won't they just continue dominating?

I get that you are trying to come up with a way to have teams not tank, but its not possible in a sport where drafts are held. The lottery should be changed, and I have proposed the following:

Bottom 3 teams have a mini-lottery, even weighted.
Teams 4-10 have a mini-lottery, even weighted.
Teams 11-14 have a mini-lottery, even weighted.

It won't prevent tanking, but it would be pretty damn hard to drop from #9 to #4 in a span of 3 weeks, and my system would make that tank job completely unwarranted anyways. Teams would play out until almost the end, where the only jockeying would be in the #3-5, and #9-12 areas.

That makes some sense. What about the teams on the cusp of the next tier? Wouldn't there still be some element of tanking?

Edit: missed the part you mentioned it won't prevent tanking. It would help, but the big picture remains largely unchanged. To build on that, how about having a playoff among non playoff-bound teams, to determine draft position? Or simply giving the top pick to the team with the best record over the season that didn't make the playoffs?

Theyhateme459
08-01-2012, 03:00 PM
how would clevleand and toronto end up with lebron and bosh in the first place, if these rules were in place, lebron would have ended up with san antonio, and clevland would have no all star to get compensation for


Exactly!!! This is why this is a horrible idea.

So 5 years later the top teams are drafting the top players... they will not need to sign them from a cleveland or toronto because they all ready drafted them! If anything when they can;t afford to keep all these players they will trade them to a team and under your system get two more 1st round picks to keep replishing their talent.

A for effort F for substance.

brebre82
08-01-2012, 03:04 PM
Exactly!!! This is why this is a horrible idea.

So 5 years later the top teams are drafting the top players... they will not need to sign them from a cleveland or toronto because they all ready drafted them! If anything when they can;t afford to keep all these players they will trade them to a team and under your system get two more 1st round picks to keep replishing their talent.

A for effort F for substance.

I appreciate that. But now we are getting into a chicken or egg argument. Whatever you said makes sense, and it will the that team's prerogative. But you are missing the fact that it takes two parties to agree to a trade, and the trade has to be beneficial enough to the other team that is giving up picks, too.

My initial suggestion, maybe I left it out.. was that for a Lebron caliber player, you get two picks.
For a Bosh caliber, you get 1.
For a JR smith, you get **** all.

brebre82
08-01-2012, 03:11 PM
well it would definitely stop tanking LOL. which is great but there should be a strict salary cap and a defined # of Tier'd players. So each can have only 1-2 tier 1 players (like top 30 players) and (2 tier 2 players) etc etc. Stops the hoarding of superstar players and stuff.

might have to use a ESPN factor calculation in determining how well the player affects the game etc etc


iono just a suggestion.

The man from Toronto knows what I'm talking about. Watching the raptor play the nets last year was brutal.

Hawkeye15
08-01-2012, 03:11 PM
well it would definitely stop tanking LOL. which is great but there should be a strict salary cap and a defined # of Tier'd players. So each can have only 1-2 tier 1 players (like top 30 players) and (2 tier 2 players) etc etc. Stops the hoarding of superstar players and stuff.

might have to use a ESPN factor calculation in determining how well the player affects the game etc etc


iono just a suggestion.

basketball communism?

Hawkeye15
08-01-2012, 03:15 PM
That makes some sense. What about the teams on the cusp of the next tier? Wouldn't there still be some element of tanking?

Edit: missed the part you mentioned it won't prevent tanking. It would help, but the big picture remains largely unchanged. To build on that, how about having a playoff among non playoff-bound teams, to determine draft position? Or simply giving the top pick to the team with the best record over the season that didn't make the playoffs?

there is no perfect idea. You can not prevent tanking. It sucks, because it's only beneficial to be really good, or really bad, unless you are in the progression stages of a young team in the middle. But the Houston Rockets are the ultimate modern example. 3 straight years with the #14 pick. They are totally stuck in neutral.

You have to "reward" or whatever you want to call it, because there is no reward for sucking and having no fans come to your game, teams that decided to rebuild, or that are just flat out bad. The poorly managed teams will never rise. You could add picks #10-15 have a mini-lottery, and picks #16-20 have a mini-lottery, but you need to make the cutoff somewhere.

THE MTL
08-01-2012, 03:17 PM
This is the dumbest idea ever. The point of the lottery is to give teams that suck a chance to rebuild through the draft. And no all bad teams have allstars to trade either. For example, the Bobcats would NEVER have a chance under ur rules

brebre82
08-01-2012, 03:18 PM
basketball communism?

Basketball communism is what we have right now. You don't get rewarded for winning a championship. How does a ring and a title improve the team that is on the court the next year?

People mentioned the Heat getting better because they have good players, and adding top picks will give them an unfair advantage. But they will have to earn it, it won't be given to them.

But no one mentions Dallas.. shouldn't they have a product on the court to show for their achievements as champions last year?

brebre82
08-01-2012, 03:24 PM
This is the dumbest idea ever. The point of the lottery is to give teams that suck a chance to rebuild through the draft. And no all bad teams have allstars to trade either. For example, the Bobcats would NEVER have a chance under ur rules

So why don't we just give everyone a championship then? Everyone's a winner! :eyebrow: This isnt kindergarten... if they wanna improve, play harder.. not for a championship, but for better draft position to start.

Do you guys fail to see how turbulent rebuilding is at the moment? Guy in guys out. You draft a potential all star, and lose him, all within the 'rebuilding' timeframe. You don't always need a Lebron or Durant to build a competitive team. Look at the way San Antonio built their team on crap picks. If the pieces fit, the team will be competitive. Bobcats have been getting good picks for a while, and they are still at the bottom. One word, management.

You guys want the league to be competitive, but you dont want them to compete.
Instead, you prefer spreading out the talent equally. Even if you do, teams won't be equal.. because more than anything how a team is put together and how they fit comes first.

RipCity32
08-01-2012, 03:29 PM
I dont like it

JLynn943
08-01-2012, 03:38 PM
So why don't we just give everyone a championship then? Everyone's a winner! :eyebrow: This isnt kindergarten... if they wanna improve, play harder.. not for a championship, but for better draft position to start.

Do you guys fail to see how turbulent rebuilding is at the moment? Guy in guys out. You draft a potential all star, and lose him, all within the 'rebuilding' timeframe. You don't always need a Lebron or Durant to build a competitive team. Look at the way San Antonio built their team on crap picks. If the pieces fit, the team will be competitive. Bobcats have been getting good picks for a while, and they are still at the bottom. One word, management.

You guys want the league to be competitive, but you dont want them to compete.
Instead, you prefer spreading out the talent equally. Even if you do, teams won't be equal.. because more than anything how a team is put together and how they fit comes first.

If a bad team doesn't tank, maybe they get the 24th pick instead of the 28th in your format. Either way they are ****ed and will never compete ever again. This would kill any hope of ever having competition. If you honestly want competition, this would be the worst thing you could do.

Your San Antonio comment is ridiculous. Crap picks? Where would they be without number 1 pick Tim Duncan?

brebre82
08-01-2012, 03:40 PM
there is no perfect idea. You can not prevent tanking. It sucks, because it's only beneficial to be really good, or really bad, unless you are in the progression stages of a young team in the middle. But the Houston Rockets are the ultimate modern example. 3 straight years with the #14 pick. They are totally stuck in neutral.

You have to "reward" or whatever you want to call it, because there is no reward for sucking and having no fans come to your game, teams that decided to rebuild, or that are just flat out bad. The poorly managed teams will never rise. You could add picks #10-15 have a mini-lottery, and picks #16-20 have a mini-lottery, but you need to make the cutoff somewhere.

I agree with you. There has to be a consolation for sucking. Still, not a reward like draft position. Maybe increase their cap space capabilities, have the all-star game, you catch my drift.

At the end of the day, just thinking out loud because what we have right now is a mess, and it becomes evident towards the end of each season. Funny, I just saw on the olympics that a bunch of badminton teams got thrown out for what was essentially, tanking :facepalm:

JLynn943
08-01-2012, 03:41 PM
Basketball communism is what we have right now. You don't get rewarded for winning a championship. How does a ring and a title improve the team that is on the court the next year?

People mentioned the Heat getting better because they have good players, and adding top picks will give them an unfair advantage. But they will have to earn it, it won't be given to them.

But no one mentions Dallas.. shouldn't they have a product on the court to show for their achievements as champions last year?

The reward is the championship itself. The proof that you are already the best team in the league. That is the yearly goal.

Dallas shouldn't have a superior product because they geared up for one last run basically. This is the consequence. I don't understand your logic in this whatsoever. Every year is a new year. Being the best team the previous team doesn't mean you deserve to stay the best team next year. Everyone should get a fair shot to improve and beat you.

brebre82
08-01-2012, 03:44 PM
If a bad team doesn't tank, maybe they get the 24th pick instead of the 28th in your format. Either way they are ****ed and will never compete ever again. This would kill any hope of ever having competition. If you honestly want competition, this would be the worst thing you could do.

Your San Antonio comment is ridiculous. Crap picks? Where would they be without number 1 pick Tim Duncan?

These 'bad' teams get to keep their parts. They are not in constant limbo. They get to improve as a team. This opinions are purely subjective, because we have no idea how things would otherwise turn out. Let's be honest here, the league is not competitive. Every year, going in, I know my team doesnt stand a chance. How is this different? At least I know that my best player isnt gonna bolt for peanuts.

Where was Parker drafted? Manu? Leonard? I got you 3 to 1.

brebre82
08-01-2012, 03:46 PM
The reward is the championship itself. The proof that you are already the best team in the league. That is the yearly goal.

Dallas shouldn't have a superior product because they geared up for one last run basically. This is the consequence. I don't understand your logic in this whatsoever. Every year is a new year. Being the best team the previous team doesn't mean you deserve to stay the best team next year. Everyone should get a fair shot to improve and beat you.

So these guys are playing for bragging rights, essentially. And people wonder why the NCAA is more exciting than the NBA - they have something to play for.

JLynn943
08-01-2012, 03:50 PM
These 'bad' teams get to keep their parts. They are not in constant limbo. They get to improve as a team. This opinions are purely subjective, because we have no idea how things would otherwise turn out. Let's be honest here, the league is not competitive. Every year, going in, I know my team doesnt stand a chance. How is this different? At least I know that my best player isnt gonna bolt for peanuts.

Where was Parker drafted? Manu? Leonard? I got you 3 to 1.

But these bad teams are almost by default less talented with this system. Give them all the time in the world, they aren't going to turn into a team that stands a chance against a team of all-stars and high draft picks.

As a fan of another bad team, there's no reason we can't improve every year. Adding top talent while developing your current roster is the best way to become competitive. If you don't develop your talent and tank instead, you will still fail. What OKC did would be impossible in your system, and they are by far the biggest draft success story in recent years. A team couldn't build a team of good players while developing on the way. They'd just get stuck building a team mostly made of role players.

Edit: And still, no Duncan = no championship

JLynn943
08-01-2012, 03:53 PM
So these guys are playing for bragging rights, essentially. And people wonder why the NCAA is more exciting than the NBA - they have something to play for.

Yes, they are playing for bragging rights. They also will likely get a better contract having won a championship. This is typical of every major professional sport in the US.

I disagree about the NCAA anyway. It's a sport of powerhouses with occasional upsets. Non-powerhouses don't even get a chance to build a good team over time because their good players leave before 4 years are up. Boring.

alexander_37
08-01-2012, 03:54 PM
As we know, there is a structural flaw in the way teams receive their lottery chances... and a lack of reward in winning a championship.

In my opinion, the championship, and #1 overall draft pick should go together. Reward the team that does the best... in a tangible, team benefitting way.

So yes, this year, Miami should have draft rights to AD. OKC to the #2 and so on so forth. No lottery, no luck. The better you do, the higher your draft pick.

Yes maybe good teams will get better.

To counter this, when a team such as Cleveland or Toronto loses an all star to free agency, they are given compensation picks by Miami.. the number of which is determined by the tier of player lost, much like the system in place for baseball. Quantitatively determine the tier of a Lebron or KD, vs that of a Bosh. That way, the team that loses their player, benefits from the other team's success.

For example with Miami acquiring Bosh/Lebron.

Lebron = Tier 1 = Two years of first picks. (Mia's 2012 & 2013 1st pick)
Bosh = Tier 2 = 1 Yr of draft pick. (Mia's 2011 1st pick)

The player that signed first was Bosh. Last year, Miami finished second. Toronto gets the 2nd pick in the 2011 draft (Dallas would have gotten Kyrie.)

Lebron signed after. Miami won the title this year. Cavs get #1 pick i.e. Davis. As well as the pick equivalent of where Miami finishes next year.

And this is where OKC would have put their team together 'the right way'. Keeping high picks, and being competitive. While Miami could win as many titles, and not a high draft pick come their way.

I believe that this will make the league more competitive, encourage an even playing field, deter teams from forming overly superteams through FA, and most of all... eliminate the tanking mentality.

In my opinion, this problem needs to be remedied, even if not by the means I just mentioned.

Share your opinions! :)

Edit: This is a simple idea, not completely original. And that it why is so baffling how the NBA does not implement a similar system.

This is worse than removing the out of bounds rule... At least that would be entertaining.

Lab Rat Robby
08-01-2012, 04:03 PM
the only way this system would work is if there was a wash of the deck so to speak. in one offseason there would need to be a fantasy draft. then a rookie draft. the order for both would have to be determined at random. the best teams and players would hate it and some would probably go to other leagues in protest. players would have to declare for the veteran draft by a certain day or else be ineligible to sign back into the nba for however many seasons. fans would love the unbelievable transaction fest but hate it when a guy like say tim duncan ends up anywhere else. the worst teams and players would get better and the league would be fairly distributed. competition would be at an all time high. no team would dare tank again. you could bet your life on another lockout, maybe even a strike. oh there would also need to be a consideration of voiding coaching and gm contracts. where is most ideal to build a completely new roster, furthermore who wants to coach that roster. basketball city usa could become new york or minneapolis. it would be a grand reboot and i admit it would be as beautiful as it is impossible.

sensei
08-01-2012, 04:04 PM
You have defended your argument very well but I still struggle to understand how a team like the Bobcats will ever get off the ground. On the other hand I fully agree with you that management is the biggest culprit.

b@llhog24
08-01-2012, 04:07 PM
I honestly don't see what's the big deal about tanking.

da ThRONe
08-01-2012, 04:11 PM
So let me get this striaght. You want to penalized bad times by making them worse?

The reason why bad teams are bad is because they can't acquire or keep their talent, and your solution is to not give them any talent at all? Sure poor team will keep their players because no other team would want them.

LongIslandIcedZ
08-01-2012, 04:13 PM
The idea of compensation for losing star players is an excellent idea, but some teams will just never get off the ground with this system. OKC would have just drafted Beal lol.

alexander_37
08-01-2012, 04:19 PM
Who even determines who is a "second tier" or "first tier" star....

brebre82
08-01-2012, 04:21 PM
the only way this system would work is if there was a wash of the deck so to speak. in one offseason there would need to be a fantasy draft. then a rookie draft. the order for both would have to be determined at random. the best teams and players would hate it and some would probably go to other leagues in protest. players would have to declare for the veteran draft by a certain day or else be ineligible to sign back into the nba for however many seasons. fans would love the unbelievable transaction fest but hate it when a guy like say tim duncan ends up anywhere else. the worst teams and players would get better and the league would be fairly distributed. competition would be at an all time high. no team would dare tank again. you could bet your life on another lockout, maybe even a strike. oh there would also need to be a consideration of voiding coaching and gm contracts. where is most ideal to build a completely new roster, furthermore who wants to coach that roster. basketball city usa could become new york or minneapolis. it would be a grand reboot and i admit it would be as beautiful as it is impossible.

That was an awesome read, like the back of a book.

sensei
08-01-2012, 04:26 PM
As previously mentioned tanking will never stop. With this in mind I believe the best thing to do would be to reward the better non playoff team with being able to offer free agents more money. For example a player like Eric Gordon, of course if hornets didn't match, would have been able to be offered more money from a team like the rockets or suns, and competitively lower max from the likes of a raptors or kings team. With this in mind teams can tank if they want the high picks but keep in mind they would not be able to offer more money to a player then the team who finished a spot ahead of them.

Wade>You
08-01-2012, 04:27 PM
Better idea (my own idea, I get credit for it)

Have playoffs for Lottery teams, one game elimination.

Draft order is determined by which teams finish highest

Reasons why it's a great idea:
-Encourages lottery teams to not tank and spend the season preparing for the playoffs or their chance to get a top pick.
-Fans of lottery teams get an extended season.
-No more conspiracies about rigging the lottery (although sketchy officiating will probably be a concern).
-Since teams have to compete, the more deserving team will get the chance to improve and turn themselves into a contender.

ThunderousDemon
08-01-2012, 04:27 PM
OP's idea, LOL!!!

brebre82
08-01-2012, 04:27 PM
But these bad teams are almost by default less talented with this system. Give them all the time in the world, they aren't going to turn into a team that stands a chance against a team of all-stars and high draft picks.

As a fan of another bad team, there's no reason we can't improve every year. Adding top talent while developing your current roster is the best way to become competitive. If you don't develop your talent and tank instead, you will still fail. What OKC did would be impossible in your system, and they are by far the biggest draft success story in recent years. A team couldn't build a team of good players while developing on the way. They'd just get stuck building a team mostly made of role players.

Edit: And still, no Duncan = no championship

Fair enough.

I never said that this system as is, would work. Just nice to have a discussion as to how we would tweak it, if given the opportunity... by weighing out the pros and cons.
We are all just trying to think of ways to improve the league in its entirety. Same goal, different opinions. Imagine being at the lockout negotiations :faint:

brebre82
08-01-2012, 04:30 PM
Better idea (my own idea, I get credit for it)

Have playoffs for Lottery teams, one game elimination.

Draft order is determined by which teams finish highest

Reasons why it's a great idea:
-Encourages lottery teams to not tank and spend the season preparing for their chance to get a top pick.
-Fans of lottery teams get an extended season.
-No more conspiracy about rigging the lottery (although sketchy officiating will probably be a concern).
-The more deserving teams get the chance to improve and turn themselves into a contender.

I think this is a great idea. As long as effort = reward. Eliminates the conundrum of being a middle of the pack team as well.

Aust
08-01-2012, 04:33 PM
I'm sorry but nothing else mattered when you wanted to give the Heat Anthony Davis...

Wade>You
08-01-2012, 04:34 PM
I think this is a great idea. As long as effort = reward. Eliminates the conundrum of being a middle of the pack team as well.Exactly, and thanks. Too many teams that are trying to compete that end up being average and stuck in the lottery every year get a chance to draft the player that takes them to the next level. These are the teams that the lottery should be rewarding, not the teams that tank.

brebre82
08-01-2012, 04:40 PM
I'm sorry but nothing else mattered when you wanted to give the Heat Anthony Davis...

You are disagreeing with the situation, and not the technique.

If I told you the Basketball League of Timbuktu had a champion, and the worst team last year. And that there is an up and coming talent who is about to join that league. Who would you think deserves that player?

Edit: I guess it is subjective. Champions because they earned it. Worst team because we want to even the playing field. I was trying to argue that things may even themselves out. Perhaps when teams are on a championship run, and need more established players over rookies or draft picks, they may help out the rebuilding process and hence help in leveling the playing field too. Think about it: By giving the top teams the draft picks, you are taking away their ability to sign free agents.

Think about the dynamics, a top team may be more inclined to give up their pick for an established player to a rebuilding team, than a team that is a threat to them - even at a lesser value.

BigBlueCrew
08-01-2012, 04:54 PM
Its weird, but I like it!

nate2usmc
08-01-2012, 04:57 PM
Should totally have the Champs pick #1 every year. That way in NBA 2k13, I can pick the Heat in association mode and they'll go undefeated every year :win:

allvalleychamp
08-01-2012, 05:00 PM
or you could just get rid of the draft and let the players go where they want

brebre82
08-01-2012, 05:03 PM
or you could just get rid of the draft and let the players go where they want

That's interesting too. It may benefit the small market teams when they have homegrown talent, but huge advantage to the larger markets for obvious reasons.

da ThRONe
08-01-2012, 05:32 PM
The best way to limit mediocrity is to make the rules fair.

Get rid of max contracts and add a cap limit on salaries. If a team can offer Lebron a contract that average 30 mil with a 70million dollar cap limit teams wouldn't be able to stock superstars.

fadedmario
08-01-2012, 08:56 PM
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

..

brebre82
08-01-2012, 10:10 PM
^

Care to elaborate?

NJrockPD
08-01-2012, 10:27 PM
Terrible idea. Who rates the values of free agents. Who decides that lebron is tier 1 and bosh is tier 2. The good teams continue to get better and bad teams would franchise their future for washed up stars.

So the heat get AD this year and win another championship. Then they get the #1 pick next year and continue to win. Let's say after aquiring AD and the 2013 #1 pick they decide they can move on from bosh and wade then AD, LBJ, and unnamed #1 pick team up and give the heat probably another high pick in 2014 plus at least 2 or 3 more first round picks from giving up wade and bosh. How would that ever work?

NJrockPD
08-01-2012, 10:47 PM
Just to give you a example the lakers would have drafted

Michael Beasley in 2008 #2 pick
Blake Griffin in 2009 #1 pick
John Wall in 2010 #1 pick

Pair that with Kobe and Bynum and that is a pretty dominant team.

brebre82
08-01-2012, 10:51 PM
Terrible idea. Who rates the values of free agents. Who decides that lebron is tier 1 and bosh is tier 2. The good teams continue to get better and bad teams would franchise their future for washed up stars.

So the heat get AD this year and win another championship. Then they get the #1 pick next year and continue to win. Let's say after aquiring AD and the 2013 #1 pick they decide they can move on from bosh and wade then AD, LBJ, and unnamed #1 pick team up and give the heat probably another high pick in 2014 plus at least 2 or 3 more first round picks from giving up wade and bosh. How would that ever work?

If every team is alloted two players they can tag as tier 1 & 2 respectively, would it not work? Why? So if Mia allocated those to James and AD as per your scenario... Bosh and Wade would not be eligible to bring them picks in return. Determine this at the start of each season. Protect your players, reward the teams that do well. I just don't buy the whole incentive of playing an entire season and playoffs for bragging rights alone.

Jint.
08-01-2012, 10:51 PM
turrible idea

brebre82
08-01-2012, 10:55 PM
Just to give you a example the lakers would have drafted

Michael Beasley in 2008 #2 pick
Blake Griffin in 2009 #1 pick
John Wall in 2010 #1 pick

Pair that with Kobe and Bynum and that is a pretty dominant team.

I think this is something that would look ridiculous short term, but would pan out in the long term. Just my opinion.

Let the market dictate itself, at the moment, this concerted effort to even out the playing field is not working. Some teams just have no chance, and have had no chance for the past decade. Again, just my opinion.

Some teams do not want a team of rookies. Such as the lakers in your example. Could they trade rookies for veteran talent? Yes. Would these contending teams be more willing to part with their rookies than rebuilding teams? Yes.

BlondeBomber41
08-01-2012, 11:38 PM
Awful idea. The only chance the bad teams have to ever compete with the good teams is to get those draft picks and get a Durant, a Rose, a Irving...

All this idea does is make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Giving the NBA Champions the best pick in the draft is ludacris.

joeboow90
08-02-2012, 12:03 AM
Sorry but this is the worst sports idea I've ever heard in my life. It doesn't even make sense at all. The best team gets the first pick? That's ridiculous how do the bad teams like the bobcats expect to get better? By hoping they get a good pick with the last pick of the first round? I don't understand how someone can even think this is logical

NoahH
08-02-2012, 03:05 AM
Technically it makes sense and works on paper. Toronto and Cleveland would get high picks in 2011 and 2012 so since Miami came 2nd last year Cleveland would get 2 (not Kyrie) and Toronto might get 5? This year Cleveland would get 1 (AD) and Toronto would get 5ish again? But that's only for a S&T, can they really make a team give up picks to a team if the player simply leaves as a FA? I don't think so. Then you might have the Heat getting (AD) this year because they didn't do a S&T (hypothetically)

I don't think it could work in the NBA tho

No, actually what I meant was.. for example with Miami and Bosh/Lebron.

Lebron = Tier 1 = Two years of first picks. (Mia's 2012 & 2013 1st pick)
Bosh = Tier 2 = 1 Yr of draft pick. (Mia's 2011 1st pick)

So, the player that signed first was Bosh. Last year, Miami finished second. Toronto gets the 2nd pick in the draft... Dallas would have gotten Kyrie.

Lebron signed after. Miami won the title this year. Cavs get #1 pick i.e. Davis. As well as the pick equivalent of where Miami finishes next year.

As a fan of a rebuilding team, I can see the benefit in such a scheme.

Ahhhh ok that makes sense now. Sorry just needed clarification. That COULD work. Obviously it'll never happy but hypothetically it could

NoahH
08-02-2012, 03:10 AM
This is the dumbest idea ever. The point of the lottery is to give teams that suck a chance to rebuild through the draft. And no all bad teams have allstars to trade either. For example, the Bobcats would NEVER have a chance under ur rules

Well yeah the bobcats have no good players so wouldn't they keep sucking and since no one good would go to Charlotte they would always have the 30th pick?

abe_froman
08-02-2012, 06:16 AM
well you never said it was a good idea and good thing because this one of the worst draft/stop tanking idea that i've ever seen brought up(and worse yet,your not the first to have it)

matt5354
08-02-2012, 06:40 AM
As we know, there is a structural flaw in the way teams receive their lottery chances... and a lack of reward in winning a championship.

In my opinion, the championship, and #1 overall draft pick should go together. Reward the team that does the best... in a tangible, team benefitting way.

So yes, this year, Miami should have draft rights to AD. OKC to the #2 and so on so forth. No lottery, no luck. The better you do, the higher your draft pick.

Yes maybe good teams will get better.

To counter this, when a team such as Cleveland or Toronto loses an all star to free agency, they are given compensation picks by Miami.. the number of which is determined by the tier of player lost, much like the system in place for baseball. Quantitatively determine the tier of a Lebron or KD, vs that of a Bosh. That way, the team that loses their player, benefits from the other team's success.

For example with Miami acquiring Bosh/Lebron.

Lebron = Tier 1 = Two years of first picks. (Mia's 2012 & 2013 1st pick)
Bosh = Tier 2 = 1 Yr of draft pick. (Mia's 2011 1st pick)

The player that signed first was Bosh. Last year, Miami finished second. Toronto gets the 2nd pick in the 2011 draft (Dallas would have gotten Kyrie.)

Lebron signed after. Miami won the title this year. Cavs get #1 pick i.e. Davis. As well as the pick equivalent of where Miami finishes next year.

And this is where OKC would have put their team together 'the right way'. Keeping high picks, and being competitive. While Miami could win as many titles, and not a high draft pick come their way.

I believe that this will make the league more competitive, encourage an even playing field, deter teams from forming overly superteams through FA, and most of all... eliminate the tanking mentality.

In my opinion, this problem needs to be remedied, even if not by the means I just mentioned.

Share your opinions! :)

Edit: This is a simple idea, not completely original. And that it why is so baffling how the NBA does not implement a similar system.

By All means, if this is the way for teams to stay competetive without tanking a season for lottery picks, then they should also remove luxury tax.

In another word, each team should have the same amount of money to spend on their players and not a single team can exceed that amount even if they want to pay tax.

This will also eliminating super trio, unless the players are willing to take a significant paycut, Other wise have you can have your trio, but the bench player will all be d-league players.

BALLER R
08-02-2012, 06:47 AM
Bad teams would stay bad unless they traded players to the good teams. But the good teams wouldn't need to make trades with any bad teams. They just have to continue being good and get a top 5 pick every year. You ever thought about how it affects the entire league.

BALLER R
08-02-2012, 06:48 AM
Well yeah the bobcats have no good players so wouldn't they keep sucking and since no one good would go to Charlotte they would always have the 30th pick?

Exactly

Sssmush
08-02-2012, 07:16 AM
As we know, there is a structural flaw in the way teams receive their lottery chances... and a lack of reward in winning a championship.

In my opinion, the championship, and #1 overall draft pick should go together. Reward the team that does the best... in a tangible, team benefitting way.

So yes, this year, Miami should have draft rights to AD. OKC to the #2 and so on so forth. No lottery, no luck. The better you do, the higher your draft pick.

Yes maybe good teams will get better.

To counter this, when a team such as Cleveland or Toronto loses an all star to free agency, they are given compensation picks by Miami.. the number of which is determined by the tier of player lost, much like the system in place for baseball. Quantitatively determine the tier of a Lebron or KD, vs that of a Bosh. That way, the team that loses their player, benefits from the other team's success.

For example with Miami acquiring Bosh/Lebron.

Lebron = Tier 1 = Two years of first picks. (Mia's 2012 & 2013 1st pick)
Bosh = Tier 2 = 1 Yr of draft pick. (Mia's 2011 1st pick)

The player that signed first was Bosh. Last year, Miami finished second. Toronto gets the 2nd pick in the 2011 draft (Dallas would have gotten Kyrie.)

Lebron signed after. Miami won the title this year. Cavs get #1 pick i.e. Davis. As well as the pick equivalent of where Miami finishes next year.

And this is where OKC would have put their team together 'the right way'. Keeping high picks, and being competitive. While Miami could win as many titles, and not a high draft pick come their way.

I believe that this will make the league more competitive, encourage an even playing field, deter teams from forming overly superteams through FA, and most of all... eliminate the tanking mentality.

In my opinion, this problem needs to be remedied, even if not by the means I just mentioned.

Share your opinions! :)

Edit: This is a simple idea, not completely original. And that it why is so baffling how the NBA does not implement a similar system.

Great idea. I'm all for it!

although a lot of teams wouldn't go for it, because they don't actually exist to get better, just to market "a product," and so without an influx of high draft picks, it's hard for them.

But yeah... if you consider the difference between #1 and #30 isn't THAT much really... anyway yea I'd be all for it.

thenaj17
08-02-2012, 08:16 AM
They would receive a pick, in addition to their own. More than likely a higher pick? Isn't that accelerated rebuilding?

Which team are you referring to? Irrelevant teams in the current climate have been irrelevant for a long time. I can honestly tell you the only team that successfully rebuilt was OKC.
Dude, where have u been? Fyi, teams ARE trying to suck. To get that higher pick.

Have you only been watching the NBA for 5 years?

Not too long ago, Cavaliers drafted Big Z and a few years after they got LeBron James and for 3 years, they were the best team in the league.

Years before that the Bulls drafted a couple of players you may have heard of called Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan...

As for the idea of Championship winning team getting first pick, it's just mad and makes the bottom half even less competitive. Drafting in reverse order gives teams a better chance to hit on a top prospect so giving the pick to a team that is already loaded is just asking for dynasty that could last forever.
There's a reason the Lakers have bowed out the last couple of years, because their aging squad isn't being replenished with talented youngsters but instead have had to settle with Andrew Goudelock, Darius Morris and other bums that don't even star in the summer league. After the 2009 Championship, Lakers would have been able to draft Blake Griffin, Harden or Rubio (who wouldn't have delayed 2 years to play for Lakers) and then on top of that LA won in 2010 so would have drafted either John Wall, Cousins or Monroe depending on who they drafted the year before. That's just 1 example. No more need for a Point guard so they wouldn't have traded for Nash. With that extra talent they may have won 2011 and 2012 titles aswell along with the top picks for each. 2011 they could have had Kyrie Irving had Wall been declared a lost cause (probably would have more success surrounded by Kobe, Gasol and Bynum and maybe Odom - as they wouldn't have needed to trade him). And 2012 they would add to this already amazing squad with Anthony Davis. Are you kidding me?!

king4day
08-02-2012, 08:27 AM
This is really a bad idea. Why would any player want to go anywhere but LA or Miami now.
The league would have to contract half its teams. Having no hope means there's no purpose in watching the NBA anymore.

If I'm a Bobcat fan and the Heat or Thunder ended up with MKG, meanwhile the 'Cats get Marcus Teague or Jeff Taylor as their number 1 pick, why watch? Just contract the team.

For this idea to work, winning teams' cap space would need to shrink bigtime. And bad teams that would normally have a high lottery chance should be given double the cap space. That's the only chance they'd have at luring anyone to their franchise.

thenaj17
08-02-2012, 08:39 AM
If every team is alloted two players they can tag as tier 1 & 2 respectively, would it not work? Why? So if Mia allocated those to James and AD as per your scenario... Bosh and Wade would not be eligible to bring them picks in return. Determine this at the start of each season. Protect your players, reward the teams that do well. I just don't buy the whole incentive of playing an entire season and playoffs for bragging rights alone.

The team could decide before the season to allocate those 2 players as Tier 1and Tier 2 knowing they are going to trade them and so get top picks.

Management and Players are playing the offseason for pride of winning, a sense of achievement plus they get paid extra money per round they go through.

Ownership is gaining by all the extra gate receipts they are collecting per game, the endorsements for winning etc.

People started playing sport because of pride for winning so i don't understand how you don't get that? The celebrations and pictures the last couple of years with Kobe beating Celtics in the Finals and LeBron holding the trophy should suggest something to you of how much it means to people.

GrumpyOldMan
08-02-2012, 08:50 AM
I hate the tanking as much as anyone, but there has to be a better way of reducing it than this. Maybe have a completely unweighted lottery of nonplayoff teams. That way finishing bottom 5 is no more beneficial draftwise than finishing 13th. Teams shouldn't be rewarded for tanking, but you can't penalize rebuilding franchises at the same time.

LongIslandIcedZ
08-02-2012, 08:54 AM
These guys are some of the most competitive people on earth, playing for pride and millions of dollars is fine for them. Most players wanna go out there and beat the best there is, it's why their in the NBA, super hard work.

Judging by this system, Cleveland would have just got Anthony Davis, OKC would have gotten Beal and Boston and San Antonio would have gotten Thomas Robinson and MKG. There would need to be a way to counter teams like Charlotte never being able to get an all star. They would only have the shittiest draft picks, and would never be able to land a top free agent because they suck. There would need to be a rule saying their allowed to offer a significant contract compared to other teams.

Again, I love the idea of compensation for losing free agents, especially since the cool thing to do now is all stars teaming up with other all stars. There is just a huge problem when it comes to keeping teams competitive. Like I said earlier, the Heat are now out of the compensation period for picks so there is nothing stopping them from getting Noel/Parker/Mohammed in the next 3 years lol.

LongIslandIcedZ
08-02-2012, 08:54 AM
These guys are some of the most competitive people on earth, playing for pride and millions of dollars is fine for them. Most players wanna go out there and beat the best there is, it's why their in the NBA, super hard work.

Judging by this system, Cleveland would have just got Anthony Davis, OKC would have gotten Beal and Boston and San Antonio would have gotten Thomas Robinson and MKG. There would need to be a way to counter teams like Charlotte never being able to get an all star. They would only have the shittiest draft picks, and would never be able to land a top free agent because they suck. There would need to be a rule saying their allowed to offer a significant contract compared to other teams.

Again, I love the idea of compensation for losing free agents, especially since the cool thing to do now is all stars teaming up with other all stars. There is just a huge problem when it comes to keeping teams competitive. Like I said earlier, the Heat are now out of the compensation period for picks so there is nothing stopping them from getting Noel/Parker/Mohammed in the next 3 years lol.

YoungOne
08-02-2012, 09:02 AM
maybe the 9th seeders get the highest chance at the no. 1 pick´?

faze38
08-02-2012, 09:30 AM
Dumbest idea ever!!! I mean basically what u are saying is keep the strong teams strong and let the others fail. If this was in place since the league started there would only be like 4 or 5 teams with rings.

brebre82
08-02-2012, 12:13 PM
The team could decide before the season to allocate those 2 players as Tier 1and Tier 2 knowing they are going to trade them and so get top picks.

Management and Players are playing the offseason for pride of winning, a sense of achievement plus they get paid extra money per round they go through.

Ownership is gaining by all the extra gate receipts they are collecting per game, the endorsements for winning etc.

People started playing sport because of pride for winning so i don't understand how you don't get that? The celebrations and pictures the last couple of years with Kobe beating Celtics in the Finals and LeBron holding the trophy should suggest something to you of how much it means to people.

Wouldn't the trading partner be aware that the player they are getting back would cost them 2 yrs worth of picks? So you designate tier 1 to JR smith thinking of trading him, you really think trading partners would bite?

Yes I agree with you to an extent. Some people place a lot of pride in playing. Some don't. To make a generalization that they all do is silly. And especially in basketball, I feel that the whole pride thing has been diluted by the fact that half these guys are in it for the paycheck. Look at the number of talented players that lack motivation and got cut from the league.

There shouldn't be a switch from regular season to playoffs. We should be able to see their best efforts night in night out. But the NBA is to blame for that as well. Does the NBA really need to be 82 games in order to decide which the best team is? I don't think so. I think to another extent, the structure of the NBA compromises the integrity of the game... because now guys get tired/injured/jaded, albeit throughout a longer season = more revenue.

Look, a championship team will attract free agents on the cheap. Look at Payton and Malone. Same thing with Mia. I for one, actually believe, that such teams may be more willing to part with their prospects (maybe not on a year when the next MJ is slated to arrive) because they are in compete mode. Not develop mode. So a rebuilding team could offer a competing team a package of established players for their rookie. Obviously I could be way off in left field, but it is a discussion nonetheless

brebre82
08-02-2012, 12:23 PM
These guys are some of the most competitive people on earth, playing for pride and millions of dollars is fine for them. Most players wanna go out there and beat the best there is, it's why their in the NBA, super hard work.

Judging by this system, Cleveland would have just got Anthony Davis, OKC would have gotten Beal and Boston and San Antonio would have gotten Thomas Robinson and MKG. There would need to be a way to counter teams like Charlotte never being able to get an all star. They would only have the shittiest draft picks, and would never be able to land a top free agent because they suck. There would need to be a rule saying their allowed to offer a significant contract compared to other teams.

Again, I love the idea of compensation for losing free agents, especially since the cool thing to do now is all stars teaming up with other all stars. There is just a huge problem when it comes to keeping teams competitive. Like I said earlier, the Heat are now out of the compensation period for picks so there is nothing stopping them from getting Noel/Parker/Mohammed in the next 3 years lol.

I guess it really comes down to this: So Toronto did poorly ever since their inception. As a less popular destination. So they had Carter and Bosh. That's great.. both high picks that the team built around. When they left, Raptors got nothing. Eric Williams? TPE? Mia's 1st which is as good as a 2nd?

The team was built around these guys. They left, netting nothing in return. Their departure renders the supporting players useless without the style of player they were meant to support. Rebuild from the ground. Blow the team up. Mediocrity for years.

Scenario B.

Toronto never sees a Carter or Bosh. They build a team of players that will stay with the team. No worries about them leaving for nothing. Call me crazy but I think a team that plays together without turbulence, would improve from year to year. A team that compliments each other well, and in years when they get lucky, have a talented player on their roster... Look at PJ3 this year. Sully. There is talent in the lower pool of draftees.

I feel like there is this gravitation towards instant gratification in the NBA. 'We drafted Lebron, he is our saviour'. 'Lebron left us... traitor'.
Do you guys not see a pattern? Why are smaller teams serving as a farm system for these guys? I would rather them develop the godam rookies if they were gonna have them anyways down the road. If you dont have time to develop the rookies because you are busy competing for a title, send him to a team that is rebuilding.

brebre82
08-02-2012, 12:37 PM
Just wanted to add, that everyone is assuming that top pick will go to Mia or OKC or the Lakers.
What if was Dallas, or the Bulls, or San Antonio, or Boston got it? Clippers? Memphis?
Lets say Boston got #4 this year. And they wanted to push Mia... they could trade that #4 for veterans... they could take that gamble. So, it becomes an arms race at the top. And they could potentially offload their rookies to rebuilding teams for veterans to compete at the moment.

And, because of the compensation system, when these rebuilding teams net a player of potential.. they can develop, AND keep him.

KingPosey
08-02-2012, 12:38 PM
I cant get on board with the OP, thats lunacy.

I do think it should be some sort of a penalty system though. If you stay in the "lottery range" you should lose the chance to get a top 3 pick after years, after 5 years a top 6, and at some point you arent eligible if it continues.

It would be tough to figure out, but penalizing teams for consistent laziness in putting together a competitive product would force teams to work harder.

lkingratedr
08-02-2012, 12:59 PM
I want to know who the OP coke dealer is

brebre82
08-02-2012, 01:08 PM
^

Clearly this website is a playground with kids who are too lazy to think, and are more interested in cracking wiseass comments, so, I'm done for now. For those who came up with counter-arguments, it has been much appreciated.

KnickNyKnick
08-02-2012, 01:42 PM
put it in writing. in a envelop addressed to David Stern. Then throw it in the garbage.