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View Full Version : Establish Who is Ultimately Untouchable and Who Can be Traded (Prospects)



papipapsmanny
07-30-2012, 10:11 PM
The deadline is tomorrow, yet as a forum have not answered this question. In Regards to prospects who is on your untouchable list and who can be traded.

I say we have to absolutely keep: JBJ, Owens, Barnes, Bogaerts

Prospects who I would give up only if it was a great player for us: Lavarnway

Available Assets for good trades: Brentz, Britton, Jacobs, Iglesias, Ranaudo, Workman, etc


my humble opinion

Crucis
07-30-2012, 10:21 PM
PPM, I suppose that I pretty much agree with your list. Personally, I'd rather trade Salty before Lavarnway, since I have high hopes that Lav will be a more consistent hitter than Salty. Also, I don't really know much of anything about the players in the third category.

Also, where would you place Kalish?

LasahShow14
07-30-2012, 10:21 PM
IMO, I would put Ranaudo in the untouchable category.

AI
07-30-2012, 10:26 PM
My untouchables would be:

Xander Bogaerts
Matt Barnes
Henry Owens
Jackie Bradley
Blake Swihart
Garin Cecchini
Ryan Lavarnway (Recently changed my mind)

Unknowns who might become untouchable, we should get an extended look at them before including them a trade:

Ty Buttrey
Jamie Callahan
Cody Kukuk
Pat Light
Travis Shaw
Manuel Margot

LasahShow14
07-30-2012, 10:28 PM
What kind of numbers has Ranaudo been putting up this year?

SirHizz
07-30-2012, 11:40 PM
Depends on what untouchable means. If someone comes around offering Mike Trout, I doubt anyone is off-limits.
But let's say for guys who are halfway realistic and available on the market:

Untouchable:
- Bogaerts
- Barnes
- Bradley jr.

Almost untouchable:
- Lavarnway (kinda love him and he has progressed every year in the minors. Kid is a workhorse and fast learner. I can see him staying behind the plate for the majority of his career)
- Swihart (because of his skillset)
- Owens (peripherals are great, I am reluctant to trade him and his 12+ k/9)
- Ranaudo (only because his value is extremely low right now)

"Would shed a tear if traded":
- Jacobs
- Cecchini
- Workman

quinnjack
07-31-2012, 08:43 AM
I think if Cherrington has the gusto to hang in there, and let this team develop over the course of the next season, and a half, leading in to 2014, than he needs to consider the following "untouchable":

Jackie Bradley, Jr. - If he continues to develop he looks like an absolutely outstanding player on both sides of the ball. He appears to be an heir apparant to Ellsbury, who will be challenging, at best, to re-sign, and would bring a major haul this time next season.

Matt Barnes - That type of stuff/polish as a combo doesn't grow on trees. You can have stuff, and not succeed (see: Bard, Daniel), or you can have presence, and not much stuff and be a middling back end of the rotation type. Barnes has both, and could very well develop in to an ace.

Xander Bogaerts - They say this kids work ethic is off the charts, that he's a good kid, always smiling, and eager to learn. Anybody will his skill set that isn't going to be a headache is worth holding on to, IMO.

Blake Swihart - Strong game skills, still learning, big offensive upside, switch hitter and a CATCHER. I wouldn't envision trading him unless he was part of a package for something major, and by major I mean Felix Hernandez, or someone similarly dominant and proven.

Henry Owens - A ways to go, but he's got the size, the body, and already has swing and miss stuff. A big, projectable lefty that throws hard, and already has nasty secondary stuff is hard to find.

Beyond that I don't see any other players I'd put in to that category.

Nomar
07-31-2012, 11:33 AM
Swihart isnt going anywhere and Kalish i would put in the same category as Lav

RedSoxtober
08-01-2012, 12:20 PM
IMO, I would put Ranaudo in the untouchable category.
1-3, 6.69ERA, 37.2IP/41H/27BB/27K and most of the season on the DL kinda sucks. He's hardly earned untouchable status.


My untouchables would be:

Xander Bogaerts
Matt Barnes
Henry Owens
Jackie Bradley
Blake Swihart
Garin Cecchini
Ryan Lavarnway (Recently changed my mind)

Unknowns who might become untouchable, we should get an extended look at them before including them a trade:

Ty Buttrey
Jamie Callahan
Cody Kukuk
Pat Light
Travis Shaw
Manuel Margot

I think I'd take mild exception with Owens. Like the kid overall but has enough work ahead of him before MLB ready that I'd include in him the right deal.

I'd be similarly open on Cecchini depending on where they project him and Bogaerts long term.

AI
08-01-2012, 12:24 PM
Might be the only one here, but I like Owens more than Barnes. Has a higher ceiling but Barnes has the higher floor.

RedSoxtober
08-01-2012, 01:43 PM
Might be the only one here, but I like Owens more than Barnes. Has a higher ceiling but Barnes has the higher floor.

From what I've seen, I disagree.

AI
08-01-2012, 01:51 PM
From what I've seen, I disagree.

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/alex-speier/2012/07/27/stacking-chips-what-red-sox-have-deal-and-why-

Nomar
08-01-2012, 04:02 PM
Owens has a crazy ceiling though. It's not like Barnes isnt really high either.

Crucis
08-01-2012, 08:49 PM
Owens has a crazy ceiling though. It's not like Barnes isnt really high either.

Owens also has the benefit of being a lefty, whereas Barnes is a righty.

bagwell368
08-01-2012, 09:36 PM
The deadline is tomorrow, yet as a forum have not answered this question. In Regards to prospects who is on your untouchable list and who can be traded.

I say we have to absolutely keep: JBJ, Owens, Barnes, Bogaerts

Prospects who I would give up only if it was a great player for us: Lavarnway

Available Assets for good trades: Brentz, Britton, Jacobs, Iglesias, Ranaudo, Workman, etc


my humble opinion

Pretty decent lists - except I would put Iglesias on the must trade list. Just get him ready, have him hit against AAAA pitching this September and hope his BA is over .250 - and deal him pronto.

RedSoxtober
08-02-2012, 10:42 AM
http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/alex-speier/2012/07/27/stacking-chips-what-red-sox-have-deal-and-why-

Notice that the article is heavy on quotes and insinuations, with no direct observations on the part of Speier? That's because he's never seen him pitch.

I like Owens. A lot. I've enjoyed watching him pitch. But I also see potential pitfalls. That's why I'll stick with seeing him as a very high ceiling, but equally low floor prospect. Color me with the conservative group that Speier mentions wanting to see results confirm potential. At the moment he's short on the former and long on the latter.

todu82
08-02-2012, 12:39 PM
Iglesias and Swihart would be my top 2 untouchables.

SirHizz
08-02-2012, 01:00 PM
By the way: most lists include JBJ, Barnes, Owens and to a certain degree Swihart. Add in some other promising guys like Kukuk, Noe Ramirez and Co. and you can say that the 2011 draft got a chance to become a special one.

Can't wait to see Bradley Jr. with the big club.

Edit: Where does suddely all the Iglesias-hate coming from? Guy hasn't hit so far, but I am willing to give him more time as he's still one of the younger prospects in AAA.
I mean, we are surviving with Ciriaco right now, of course he's hitting for average, but he's got zero OBP skills and basically no power at all.

AI
08-02-2012, 01:05 PM
Notice that the article is heavy on quotes and insinuations, with no direct observations on the part of Speier? That's because he's never seen him pitch.

I like Owens. A lot. I've enjoyed watching him pitch. But I also see potential pitfalls. That's why I'll stick with seeing him as a very high ceiling, but equally low floor prospect. Color me with the conservative group that Speier mentions wanting to see results confirm potential. At the moment he's short on the former and long on the latter.

I can agree with this. Haven't seen him pitch but I have read scouting report and advanced feel for pitching for a high schooler.

ZHawk1123
08-02-2012, 01:19 PM
I think if Cherrington has the gusto to hang in there, and let this team develop over the course of the next season, and a half, leading in to 2014, than he needs to consider the following "untouchable":

Jackie Bradley, Jr. - If he continues to develop he looks like an absolutely outstanding player on both sides of the ball. He appears to be an heir apparant to Ellsbury, who will be challenging, at best, to re-sign, and would bring a major haul this time next season.

Matt Barnes - That type of stuff/polish as a combo doesn't grow on trees. You can have stuff, and not succeed (see: Bard, Daniel), or you can have presence, and not much stuff and be a middling back end of the rotation type. Barnes has both, and could very well develop in to an ace.

Xander Bogaerts - They say this kids work ethic is off the charts, that he's a good kid, always smiling, and eager to learn. Anybody will his skill set that isn't going to be a headache is worth holding on to, IMO.

Blake Swihart - Strong game skills, still learning, big offensive upside, switch hitter and a CATCHER. I wouldn't envision trading him unless he was part of a package for something major, and by major I mean Felix Hernandez, or someone similarly dominant and proven.

Henry Owens - A ways to go, but he's got the size, the body, and already has swing and miss stuff. A big, projectable lefty that throws hard, and already has nasty secondary stuff is hard to find.

Beyond that I don't see any other players I'd put in to that category.

This is the perfect list IMO... Everyone else could be dealt in the right deal.

ZHawk1123
08-02-2012, 01:21 PM
Iglesias and Swihart would be my top 2 untouchables.

LOL... He is so tradeable its not even funny... Besides an amazing glove, he'll never be an impact player.

RedSoxtober
08-03-2012, 09:34 AM
I can agree with this. Haven't seen him pitch but I have read scouting report and advanced feel for pitching for a high schooler.

I'd agree with that. I'm more concerned with how he fills out than anything. He may be the one guy in the Sox system who could call Buchholz chubby. He also reminds me a bit of Andrew Miller with the height and long limbs. His delivery is better but I just wonder how it'll progress as he matures physically.

Station 13
08-05-2012, 07:21 AM
Buchholz! BUCHHOOLLE BUTTCHOLE

Fire everyone

Celtic AL
08-05-2012, 10:46 AM
My untouchables would be:

Xander Bogaerts
Matt Barnes
Henry Owens
Jackie Bradley
Blake Swihart
Garin Cecchini
Ryan Lavarnway (Recently changed my mind)

Unknowns who might become untouchable, we should get an extended look at them before including them a trade:

Ty Buttrey
Jamie Callahan
Cody Kukuk
Pat Light
Travis Shaw
Manuel Margot

I agree with your list! i like travis shaw alot!

What kind of numbers has Ranaudo been putting up this year?
he has a dead arm. but if healthy he could be saved next year.


Might be the only one here, but I like Owens more than Barnes. Has a higher ceiling but Barnes has the higher floor.

I'm Really High on Both Pitchers! especially Owens! i think once he gets a few years in his belt i expect him to get really hot & Climb the prospect rankings! hes a future #1 prospect Imo!


Swihart isnt going anywhere and Kalish i would put in the same category as Lav

To me i'm not impressed with Kalish. and as i said in the past i kinda think he's overrated. sure i like what i saw in his debut year but this year? i'm not really impressed with this year. I'm more High on Both Bradley JR & Brentz as are future CF & RF than kalish. i would trade him.

bagwell368
08-05-2012, 11:53 AM
Iglesias and Swihart would be my top 2 untouchables.

Iglesias heads my "must trade" list - as soon as he manages like a 3 for 10 stretch for the BRS with a 2B. Get him the heck gone. A NL style player headed for a career back-up or starter on the one of the worst 3-4 teams in the Majors. His career slash will be under .260/.295/.325 - take it to the bank.