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View Full Version : 90s Playoffs Sonic Conference: 2. Bristol vs 6. Las Vegas



NYKalltheway
07-28-2012, 06:06 AM
Welcome to the 90s redraft from the Knicks forum. This game involves players who have featured at any game between 1989-90 season until 1999-2000 season and players should be judged on their primes and not their 90s career.

Bristol


PG: Andre Miller
SG: Jerome Kersey
SF: Shawn Marion
PF: Cliff Robinson
C: Shaquille O'Neal
Bench:
PG: Johnny Moore
SG: Jason Terry
SF: Eddie Johnson
PF: Charles Smith
C: Michael Cage
SG: Dee Brown
SF: Todd Day

Offensive Philosophy:

Our offense was built strictly around Shaquille O誰eal. We believe we will have success on offense because we have a perfect balance of offense in the post and around the perimeter. We believe that we really do not have any weaknesses on offense. Everyone knows our dominate Shaquille O誰eal can be if he gets the ball. O誰eal during his prime could easily put up 27-29 points a night. We believe that with our offense he could even put up more. We added Andre Miller who was a terrific passer in his prime. Miller once led the league in Assists with 11 per game. We believe that if you gave him a guy like Shaq in a fast pace offense, Miller could easily do that again. We decided to pair Shaq up down low with Clifford Robinson. We believe the two of them together is a PERFECT fit. Robinson gives us a guy who can spread the floor and knock down both a 15 foot jump shot and a 3 pointer. Robinson was practically an earlier version of Dirk Nowitzki. He was a dynamic 3 point shooter can could score in a number of ways. This will allow Shaquille O誰eal to have the paint wide open to himself. With our fast pace offense, our other two starters, Jerome Kersey and Shawn Marion will put up huge numbers. They were both hustle players who could get up the court quickly. Marion in his prime could put up 21 points a night in the Suns fast pace offense. Kersey was also a strong scorer averaging 19 points per game during one season. We will be a strong team on the offensive glass with O誰eal, Marion痴 and Kersey痴 rebounding abilities.

Due to the fact that we do not have a strong outside shooting starting team, we added two prolific scorers as our 6th and 7th men. Both Eddie Johnson and Jason Terry have won 6th man of the year awards and have been instant threats offensively. With Johnny Moore being a terrific pass first point guard in his prime, we believe with this type of scoring from our bench, it will be hard to stop us.

Defensive Philosophy:

We believe we might just have the strongest defense in this whole game. Our frontcourt defense is scary. 3 out of our 5 starters have been named to multiple NBA defensive of teams. In his prime, O誰eal was one of the best defending Centers the NBA has ever seen. He could easily block 3 shots a game and could over power guys defensively in the post. Clifford Robinson throughout his whole career was a very underrated defender. Robinson was a good defender in both the post but on the perimeter as well. He was quick enough to guard even some Small Forwards and was good at clogging the lanes with his long arms and stealing passes. Shawn Marion was just a defensive stud. He could defend most PFs and most Guards. He flirted around 2 steals and 2 blocks a game and put up huge Defensive numbers in both Win Shares and Rating. Andre Miller was another solid defender. He was able to cover most PGs so we never will get abused by any star point guard. Finally like Marion, Kersey was a hustler. He wasn稚 the best defender skill wised, but his hustle and heart far made up for that. He could defend both SGs and SFs and was quick enough to get steals and make up if someone drove on him.

On our bench we also added guys like Johnny Moore who were dynamic stealers. Moore flirted with 3 SPG numerous times in his career. We also have Charles Smith and Michael Cage down low who were great defenders as well in their prime. Bottom line is we believe no team will be able to outscore us

Matchups

PG: Andre Miller vs Doc Rivers:

In his prime, Rivers was a solid player. He was a solid defender and a good shooter. But don稚 let that confuse you. What many people forget is that Miller could average around 11 assists in his prime. In our offense, we feel that although Rivers was a solid defender, Miller will be able to have success. Miller could thrive in a quick pace game with his court vision. For that reason alone, we believe we have the advantage at this position.
Advantage: Miller

SG: Shawn Marion vs Tracy McGrady

I知 not going to try to downgrade McGrady because I can稚. McGrady was such a stud in his prime. However, I feel a lot more comfortable with a very strong and athletic defender in Marion covering him. I know you are probably wondering can Marion play SG. Well Marion in his prime, could cover practically any position on the floor. He was also a terrific rebounder and a 20 point scorer. With our fast pace offense, we believe he will have success on McGrady in transition. In their matchups, Tracy actually shot 41% against Marion. McGrady obviously gets the advantage here, but by not as much as you would think.

Advantage: McGrady

SF: Jerome Kersey vs Bruce Bowen

Bowen was a terrific defender, but Kersey was a freak athlete. Kersey was the definition of a hustler. He hustled on offense and on defense. We feel that his athleticism would give Bowen problems. Neither players will be big scorers, but Kersey will be able to score more than Bowen in this matchup.

Advantage: Kersey

PF: Clifford Robinson vs Shawn Kemp

A good matchup here. Kemp was a beast but Robinson was always a nice defender making a few all defensive teams. Robinson could stretch the floor and knock down the 3. Obviously Kemp holds the rebound advantage, but that does not matter with O誰eal, Kersey, and Marion on the court. I値l still give Kemp the advantage, but again it is only a slight one.

Advantage: Kemp

C: Shaquille O誰eal vs Rony Seikaly

Bottom line is, Shaquille O誰eal is perhaps one of the most dominate players in NBA history. Rony Seikaly will struggle against him. With Robinson spreading the floor, O誰eal will have a lot of 1 on 1 situations in the post. Seikaly will have a tough time scoring on O誰eal as well.

Advantage: O誰eal




Stats:

PG: Andre Miller- Prime Season: 16.5 PPG 10.9 APG 4.7 RPG 1.6 SPG
SG: Jerome Kersey- Prime Season: 19.2 PPG 8.3 RPG 3.1 APG 1.6 SPG .8 BPG
SF: Shawn Marion- Prime Season: 21.8 PPG 11.8 RPG 2.0 SPG 1.7 BPG 54% FG
PF: Cliff Robinson- Prime Season: 20.1 PPG 6.7 RPG 1.4 SPG 1.4 BPG
C: Shaquille O'Neal- Prime Season: 29.7 PPG 13.6 RPG 3.0 BPG 57.4% FG 30.6 PER
Bench:
PG: Johnny Moore- Prime Season: 12.8 PPG 4.6 RPG 10.0 APG 2.8 SPG
SG: Jason Terry - Prime Season: 19.3 PPG 5.7 APG 1.8 SPG
SF: Eddie Johnson- Prime Season: 21.5 PPG 4.4 RPG 49.7% FG 41.3% 3P
PF: Charles Smith- Prime Season: 20.0 PPG 8.2 RPG 1.1 SPG 2.0 BPG
C: Michael Cage- Prime Season: 14.5 PPG 13.0 RPG 1.3 SPG .8 BPG
SG: Dee Brown- Prime Season: 15.5 PPG 4.5 APG 2.0 SPG 48% FG
SF: Todd Day- Prime Season: 14.5 PPG 4.1 RPG 1.3 SPG

Las Vegas


Depth Chart
PG - Doc Rivers / T-Mac / Charlie Ward
SG - Tracy McGrady / Bowen / T.R. Dunn
SF - Bruce Bowen / Detlef Schrempf / Rex Chapman
PF - Shawn Kemp / Robert Horry / Chris Gatling
C - Rony Seikaly / Kemp / Benoit Benjamin



Congrats to my opponent on winning in the first round. No speech I want to get right into this matchup.

PG Doc Rivers vs. Andre Miller
Andre Miller was his 2nd round pick. Andre Miller never even made an all-star team. Doc Rivers did. Andre Miller has never been as good a defender or shooter as Doc. Andre Miller痴 career high for 3pters made in a season is 23 when he shot 23 for 108 (21%) in 2002 (Keep this in mind for later). Rivers career high for 3痴 is 88 (34%). They both averaged over 10apg once but never more than 11. They are relatively equal players only I didn稚 have to use a 2nd round pick on Doc. By drafting Miller that early he severely capped the talent level of his team. This is a critical downfall of this team.

SG Tracy McGrady vs. Jerome Kersey
Tracy McGrady - 32ppg / 7rpg / 6apg / 2spg / 1bpg shooting 46%/39%/79% for a TS% of 56% and a PER of 30 (one of the highest seasons in NBA History)
In the early 2000s, T-Mac was one of the deadliest offensive players the game had ever seen. His ability to score from anywhere on the floor, create for teammates, and his microscopic turnover rate are legendary. The most underrated aspect of McGrady痴 career was his success in the post-season.
http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?t=712733
T-Mac has had the greatest improvement in his regular PER to post-season PER in nba history. More than any other player. Shocking but true. This should disprove any myth about his downfalls in the post-season.
Meanwhile, Jerome Kersey was a forward his entire career and played on an uptempo Blazers team (3rd in pace). His career high for 3痴 in a season is 17 for 65 (26%). He痴 playing out of a position on a slow it down pound it inside team. T-Mac has a huge advantage here.

SF Robert Horry/Bruce Bowen vs. Shawn Marion
Similarly to Kersey, Marion is an uptempo player playing without Steve Nash shackled in a half-court offense. How did that work once he left Phoenix? His limited handle and lack of a perimeter game make him half the player he should be. Plus Bowen and Horry are both good defenders and should slow him down more. Horry-Bowen space the floor nicely for Vegas with their perimeter games and clutch skills. Both are proven winners.

PF Shawn Kemp vs. Cliff Robinson
Shawn Kemp - 20ppg / 11rpg / 3apg / 2bpg / 1spg shooting 56% fg (63% TS%) averaging 8FTA on 75%FT.
Kemp was an elite all-nba player. Cliff Robinson was 1x all-star who was unfortunately an inefficient scorer. His TS% in his best overall season was a meager 51.7%. He would have a tough series matching up with Kemp who was quicker, stronger and more athletic. I see Kemp having a big series on Cliff and potentially getting Shaq into foul trouble.

C Rony Seikaly vs. Shaquille O誰eal
Rony Seikaly - 17ppg / 12rpg / 2bpg while shooting 49%fg (56% TS%)
Seikaly was a legit 70 center who could play on both ends of the floor and he might have a few games in the teens but it痴 clear Shaq would have a great series. To try to slow him down I壇 be using Benoit Benjamin (2bpg 250lbs center) for his 6 fouls and double teaming Shaq with Bowen/Horry constantly.

Bench: Robert Horry-Detlef Schrempf- Gatling-Dunn-Benjamin-Ward vs. Moore-Terry-Johnson-Smith-Cage
This is a significant advantage for Las Vegas who has one of the best benches in the redraft with two legit starters who have been wildly successful in their careers:
Detlef Schrempf - 19ppg / 6rpg / 4apg shooting 52%/51% 3pt / 84% FT

Robert Horry - 12ppg / 6rpg / 4apg / 2bpg / 2spg shooting 45%/37% 3pt

Overall:
In round 1 we went against a balanced talented team featuring 3 2nd round picks and Larry Bird and pulled out the W. That was a team. Bristol is ALL one player. That may be enough to win one round but it shouldn稚 be here. Keep in mind these points:

1. His backcourt does not space the floor for Shaq at all.
2. Miller is a halfcourt PG but Kersey/Marion are transition players. Kersey is also playing out of position at SG. It痴 a clear clash of playing styles.
3. His 2nd highest pick was Andre Miller in a stacked redraft.
4. My two elite players (TMac & Kemp) have clear advantages against their opponents who combine for 1 all-star game appearance in their entire careers (kersey 0 , cliff 1).
5. My bench has a clear advantage as well.

He may have Shaq but we know what Shaq needs to win and this team is not it. He does not have that play-making wing who can create his own shot and take the pressure off. He does not have floor spacers. His two wings aren稚 half-court players. Meanwhile, my team is balanced and can play any style we find an advantage. I can run with a small-ball lineup of Tmac-Bowen-Detlef-Horry-Kemp or slow it down with Doc-Tmac-Bowen-Kemp-Seikaly. We have multiple distributors (Doc-Tmac-Detlef) plenty of shooting (Tmac-Bowen-Detlef-Horry) and even big men who can score in the paint (Kemp-Seikaly). Las Vegas has what痴 needed to make it to the conference finals: a team. GL to my opponent.

NYKalltheway
07-28-2012, 06:37 AM
I'd go Bristol in 7 here due to HCA as well.
Las Vegas cannot stop Shaq while Bristol can contain Tmac a bit. Bristol also is the (slightly) deeper team here.

KoB, don't get why you keep attacking the Andre Miller pick. It wasn't a good pick but it's not something that can be used in your favor or against the Bristol team. The team is set now and it is what it is, don't need to keep talking about someone's second picked player no matter how bad that pick was (iirc there were some much worse picks in 2nd round than Andre Miller)

PatsSoxKnicks
07-28-2012, 07:32 AM
Bristol's write-up is incredibly biased with some straight out false statements. Like Shaq being one of the best defending Centers the NBA has ever seen. Seriously? There's quite a few of the all-time great legends I'd take over Shaq defensively. In the 90s alone, D-Rob, Hakeem, Ewing and Mutumbo were better and I'm probably forgetting some Centers. There's a reason Shaq was never on a 1st-team All-defense so calling him one of the best defending Centers the league has ever seen is flat out false.

Another biased statement was their claim that they have the best defense in the game. Thats false too. I'd take Shanghai's defense rather easily over Bristol's. And personally, I think our own defense is better.

And then why is Bristol playing a fast paced offense with Shaq on the floor? I mean I suppose you could since he's played on some faster paced teams but the dominant Laker teams that he had were about middle of the pack in pace, not fast paced.

Also, there really isn't that much of a difference between Andre Miller and Doc Rivers. KoB basically got the same PG many rounds later. That doesn't matter here but Miller's advantage is only slight.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-28-2012, 07:51 AM
And as KoB mentioned in his write-up, I hate the way Bristol fits together. Shaq is a dominating force so instead of giving him potent 3 point shooters, you surround him with more slashers who won't really space the floor for him. Las Vegas can just pack the paint and hack a shaq with multiple players since they don't have to worry about anyone beating them from deep.

Putting Marion on T-Mac is smart but who the heck is Bristol's #2 option? I'm not even sure. And should Las Vegas speed up the game, which they are capable of doing, it negates Shaq on the defensive end.

I do think Shaq would dominate in this series but I don't believe 1 player beats 5 players. And I think Las Vegas has a better team while Bristol is more of a collection of individuals who don't fit all that well together.

Chavacano
07-28-2012, 07:52 AM
Las Vegas. Someone sticky this thread.

NYKalltheway
07-28-2012, 08:08 AM
I'd take Shanghai's defense rather easily over Bristol's. And personally, I think our own defense is better.


Ka-ching :hi5:

Jets012
07-28-2012, 10:15 AM
I know it does not say this anywhere, but we plan on using Jason Terry a lot at both the point and shooting guard positions to spread and space our back-court. Same with Eddie Johnson who were both 6th men of the years.

Chavacano
07-28-2012, 10:44 AM
I know it does not say this anywhere, but we plan on using Jason Terry a lot at both the point and shooting guard positions to spread and space our back-court. Same with Eddie Johnson who were both 6th men of the years.

So why start Miller and Kersey at the backcourt? You also planned on subbing at every deadball to be able to provide shooters for Shaq and implement your supposed running offense intermittently? :confused:



:p

KnicksorBust
07-28-2012, 10:59 AM
And as KoB mentioned in his write-up, I hate the way Bristol fits together. Shaq is a dominating force so instead of giving him potent 3 point shooters, you surround him with more slashers who won't really space the floor for him. Las Vegas can just pack the paint and hack a shaq with multiple players since they don't have to worry about anyone beating them from deep.

Putting Marion on T-Mac is smart but who the heck is Bristol's #2 option? I'm not even sure. And should Las Vegas speed up the game, which they are capable of doing, it negates Shaq on the defensive end.

I do think Shaq would dominate in this series but I don't believe 1 player beats 5 players. And I think Las Vegas has a better team while Bristol is more of a collection of individuals who don't fit all that well together.

Exactly. He doesn't have a #2 option. His team is just one player. And while that is a great great player, he didn't even build properly around that great player. He's starting 2 fast paced players with a half-court team. And he's got a backcourt that can't even shoot from the perimeter to space the floor for his post-player. My team fits together like a glove. We can run, we can slow it down, and we have multiple options and multiple shooters allowing McGrady to slash and create for teammates like Kemp who would thrive with a player like McGrady because they can get out in transition or run screens.

KnicksorBust
07-28-2012, 01:29 PM
KoB, don't get why you keep attacking the Andre Miller pick. It wasn't a good pick but it's not something that can be used in your favor or against the Bristol team. The team is set now and it is what it is, don't need to keep talking about someone's second picked player no matter how bad that pick was (iirc there were some much worse picks in 2nd round than Andre Miller)

Of course it can and should be used in my favor. That's why I felt the need to bring it up. Shaq has proven that when you put one top scoring perimeter player with him, great things happen.

Penny = Finals
Wade = Championship
Kobe = Dynasty

All he needed to do was find a way to trade up or package players to get a Penny, or Drexler, or Reggie, or Wilkins and then this matchup would be different. He'd have someone to balance out T-Mac and force my team to play him more straight-up. Instead he's got Andre Miller and Jerome freaking Kersey. Look I like Marion but he's a #3 and would be stifled in half-court team. Meanwhile my pieces not only fit together but can play different styles. I built around my star.

T-Mac has teammates that take the pressure off him to facilitate the whole game (Doc-Detlef). Teammates that spread the floor for him to penetrate (Bowen-Detlef-Horry). Teammates that protect him defensively (Doc-Bowen-Ward-Dunn-Horry). An elite big for him to PnR with and run with in transition (Kemp). And even a big man to drop the ball into the post (Rony "The Spin Doctor" Seikaly).

That's why I had to bring it up. It's the advantage that makes all the difference in this series.

KnicksorBust
07-28-2012, 04:48 PM
I know it does not say this anywhere, but we plan on using Jason Terry a lot at both the point and shooting guard positions to spread and space our back-court. Same with Eddie Johnson who were both 6th men of the years.

And then I'll go to my big backcourt with McGrady-Detlef-Horry and Terry will get destroyed by whoever he covers.

BlondeBomber41
07-28-2012, 11:59 PM
Shocking, you guys wussed out and let Las Vegas in the playoffs.

Like I said from the beginning, you were gonna get your *** kicked whether you made the playoffs or not.

KnicksorBust
07-29-2012, 01:12 AM
Shocking, you guys wussed out and let Las Vegas in the playoffs.

Like I said from the beginning, you were gonna get your *** kicked whether you made the playoffs or not.

:laugh: Quit trolling me. I upset a #3 seed in the first round and this matchup just got posted. I'm not packing it in yet here.

lakers4sho
07-29-2012, 01:23 AM
how did bristol get 2 seed? :eyebrow:

KnicksorBust
07-29-2012, 02:38 AM
.

lakers4sho
07-29-2012, 03:01 AM
no seriously, you and pSk have pretty much covered everything; outside of shaq, i don't understand how this bristol team is set up. just a bunch of different names stapled together and bam there's the team. plus everyone including their grandmas know that shaq needs outside shooters to be effective. and whoever said bristol is the deeper team, sorry, but i disagree.

well, good luck to vegas, climbing out of this hole. everyone sees the name shaq and immediately pees their pants.

KnicksorBust
07-29-2012, 11:27 AM
I haven't given up yet. L4S. :) Bump!

KnicksorBust
07-29-2012, 04:20 PM
bump

PatsSoxKnicks
07-30-2012, 12:44 AM
Shocking, you guys wussed out and let Las Vegas in the playoffs.

Like I said from the beginning, you were gonna get your *** kicked whether you made the playoffs or not.

Is it more shocking then you voting against me and rosh and KOB obviously? Obviously you're the type to hold grudges and personally I find it ridiculous/pathetic that you're voting against us in each round because rosh said what you did was pathetic and because I said you should be DQed. And don't give me crap about you not liking our team now because before either of us said anything to you and the whole invalid ballot thing happened, you had us seeded 2nd in the conference on your ballot. So clearly you're voting against us because of stuff we said in the lounge, which you must've read. ***** move if you ask me and childish as well.

KnicksorBust
07-30-2012, 01:12 PM
bump

KnicksorBust
07-30-2012, 06:19 PM
Let's get a vote rush! Go Vegas!

BlondeBomber41
07-30-2012, 11:37 PM
Is it more shocking then you voting against me and rosh and KOB obviously? Obviously you're the type to hold grudges and personally I find it ridiculous/pathetic that you're voting against us in each round because rosh said what you did was pathetic and because I said you should be DQed. And don't give me crap about you not liking our team now because before either of us said anything to you and the whole invalid ballot thing happened, you had us seeded 2nd in the conference on your ballot. So clearly you're voting against us because of stuff we said in the lounge, which you must've read. ***** move if you ask me and childish as well.

WTF are you talking about? I never put you #2 on anything. You're clearly mistaking me for someone else.

If you had any real clue about the entire situation you'd understand.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-31-2012, 04:15 AM
WTF are you talking about? I never put you #2 on anything. You're clearly mistaking me for someone else.

If you had any real clue about the entire situation you'd understand.

Well, we had a #2 ballot removed from our total and seeing as how your ballot was invalid, I would assume that you had us #2. No one else's ballot was removed. I'm sure NYK has the ballots still so tell him to post it in the lounge if you're so certain.

KnicksorBust
07-31-2012, 07:39 AM
The real shame is the team that I beat in the 1st round (Bird-Buck-Jackson-Cooper) is better than the team that beat me here.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-31-2012, 07:57 AM
The real shame is the team that I beat in the 1st round (Bird-Buck-Jackson-Cooper) is better than the team that beat me here.

Yeah I would agree with that but people tend to vote for individuals. Also, I think Shaq was a much worse matchup for you than Bird (who you had Bowen on). My guess would be that most assumed Shaq would destroy you so they voted for him over your team.

juggla53
07-31-2012, 06:27 PM
i think its pretty obvious that shaq against the las vegas front court was just about the worst possible matchup the las vegas front court could have, i think thats why a lot of people voted for bristol