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11jgib
07-27-2012, 11:32 AM
while ray allen is an incredible shooter, arguably the best of all time he is most effective when he is spotting up. Who would you say has the best pull up jumper in the league? When i think of sharpshooters most of them are primarily spot up shooters such as anthony morrow, kyle korver and the like. the only sharpshooter who can effectively spot up and pull up was steph curry. thoughts?

sp1derm00
07-27-2012, 11:35 AM
Durant.

He pulls up, nothing you can do.

Dat lengff.

NYSPORTSALLDAY
07-27-2012, 11:36 AM
Melo

DR_1
07-27-2012, 11:37 AM
Kobe

I Rock Shaqs
07-27-2012, 11:37 AM
Geez I feel like a lot of people just make up threads to feel important, Melo without a doubt and I hate the Knicks.

greek miami hea
07-27-2012, 11:39 AM
durant or melo

TheNumber37
07-27-2012, 11:42 AM
melo, Durant, Kobe

melo because its more of a go to move.

Carey
07-27-2012, 11:43 AM
Kobe or KD

Vinylman
07-27-2012, 11:43 AM
Jerry West

Da Knicks
07-27-2012, 11:44 AM
melo easy

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 11:46 AM
Durant, Nash, Paul come to mind.

yanksrock
07-27-2012, 11:47 AM
Melo all day

Becks2307
07-27-2012, 11:47 AM
melo or


westbrook!!!

BobbyHillSwag
07-27-2012, 11:49 AM
melo i mean that mofo will hit the pullup from anywhere. He has the sickest pullup and step back jumper in the league by far.

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-27-2012, 11:50 AM
It has to be Durant.

Hoopsadvocate
07-27-2012, 11:51 AM
All the homer knicks say easily melo everyother NBA fan says it Durant/kobe/melo.

Probably Durant though melo and Kobe are not to far behind.

joeystats
07-27-2012, 11:58 AM
Prob Melo or Kobe

sunsfan88
07-27-2012, 12:07 PM
'Melo
Durant
Westbrook
Kobe

LoveMeOrHateMe
07-27-2012, 12:11 PM
Kobe

nyKnicks126
07-27-2012, 12:12 PM
Melo..

LongIslandIcedZ
07-27-2012, 12:12 PM
I'm surprised more people havent mentioned Nash, he's the first one that came to mind. Dribbling down the court and popping a three.

Paul Pierce is decent too, at least when playing the KNicks

dh144498
07-27-2012, 12:13 PM
gawdbe and KD

TeamSeattle
07-27-2012, 12:13 PM
Durant is a better spot up shooter let's be honest although a pullup is in his arsenal. It has to be Kobe or Melo for this one, as its more of a goto move for them. People do know a pullup is not a catch & shoot right.

Stinkyoutsider
07-27-2012, 12:14 PM
Kevin Durant. That's where he makes his living. Anywhere from mid to long range pullups and then you also have almost no chance to block the shot if you're in good position because he's tall.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 12:23 PM
Wetbrook is a really good one actually. Pulls up on a dime and hits at a high rate.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 12:24 PM
I'm surprised more people havent mentioned Nash, he's the first one that came to mind. Dribbling down the court and popping a three.

Paul Pierce is decent too, at least when playing the KNicks

Exactly. Nash came to mind instantly, maybe the best in history at it.

njnets
07-27-2012, 12:24 PM
westbrooks pull up jumper at the foul line/elbow is really good.

29$JerZ
07-27-2012, 12:26 PM
Westbrook
Nash
Melo
Durant

In that order

HOZ THE KNICK
07-27-2012, 12:28 PM
melo durant kobe..no order.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 12:31 PM
How is Melo coming up in this? He shoots under NBA average from 16-23 feet, hitting 35%, and barely above average from 10-15 feet, 42.3%. Ricky Rubio is literally 1% below him from 16-23, and he is considered a joke shooter.

eternal slumber
07-27-2012, 12:32 PM
Aaron Brooks has a nice pull-up jumper.

driving full speed and stopping on a dime for a pull-up jumper.

dAngelo
07-27-2012, 12:34 PM
Nash especially during the SSOL days. He is still one of the best today.
Westbrook pull up elbow jumper is very deadly especially when he's on.
Durant especially during crunch time and single coverage.
Kobe and Melo are up there.

nyKnicks126
07-27-2012, 12:34 PM
How is Melo coming up in this? He shoots under NBA average from 16-23 feet, hitting 35%, and barely above average from 10-15 feet, 42.3%. Ricky Rubio is literally 1% below him from 16-23, and he is considered a joke shooter.

I like that sample size for Rubio.. :rolleyes:

Probably will be worse once he plays.. oh let's say.. 9 years in the nba..

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 12:37 PM
looking at the numbers, it's Nash by a mile, with Durant, Paul, and Westbrook being very good answers as well.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 12:37 PM
I like that sample size for Rubio.. :rolleyes:

Probably will be worse once he plays.. oh let's say.. 9 years in the nba..

well, way to hop over the point dude. Melo doesn't belong in this thread. There are plenty of guys more accurate in those pull up ranges.

nyKnicks126
07-27-2012, 12:38 PM
H20 when he watered down the heat in 99.. :)

nyKnicks126
07-27-2012, 12:39 PM
well, way to hop over the point dude. Melo doesn't belong in this thread. There are plenty of guys more accurate in those pull up ranges.

Then stop bringing Rubio's name into it..

Nash and Durant are the right answers.. All Knicks homers are going to say Melo..

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 12:40 PM
Then stop bringing Rubio's name into it..

Nash and Durant are the right answers.. All Knicks homers are going to say Melo..

Why wouldn't I bring a guy who is considered a terrible shooter into it, when the perentages are comparable?

And yes, Knicks homers are just that. They don't even bother researching, they just blindly throw his name out there. Melo is a high volume scorer, not an efficient one. Big difference.

KnickaBocka.44
07-27-2012, 12:41 PM
Nash

BGates29
07-27-2012, 12:42 PM
Nash,Kobe,Melo,Westbrook

mightybosstone
07-27-2012, 12:42 PM
I think Durant and Kobe deserve credit, but the guy who I saw do it the best in the playoffs was Russell Westbrook. I must have seen him do it 20 times in the postseason. He pushes the tempo up the floor, stops on a dime and hits a 10-15 footer as the defense tries to figure out what the hell just happened. There were times he did it so fast that my brain barely caught up to it. I think he should do it more, because it's unstoppable. His speed and athleticism force defenders to give him space, as they expect him to drive, so he can abuse that shot his entire career.

JayW_1023
07-27-2012, 12:42 PM
Durant by a mile.

jayjay33
07-27-2012, 12:43 PM
How is Melo coming up in this? He shoots under NBA average from 16-23 feet, hitting 35%, and barely above average from 10-15 feet, 42.3%. Ricky Rubio is literally 1% below him from 16-23, and he is considered a joke shooter.

You really do use stats waaaay to
much. You should watch the players more.

nickdymez
07-27-2012, 12:44 PM
Melo, Kobe, Durant

naps
07-27-2012, 12:45 PM
Kevin Durant by a landslide.

nickdymez
07-27-2012, 12:46 PM
looking at the numbers, it's Nash by a mile, with Durant, Paul, and Westbrook being very good answers as well.

Numbers dont illustrate the circumstance

jayjay33
07-27-2012, 12:48 PM
Then stop bringing Rubio's name into it..

Nash and Durant are the right answers.. All Knicks homers are going to say Melo..

Why wouldn't I bring a guy who is considered a terrible shooter into it, when the perentages are comparable?

And yes, Knicks homers are just that. They don't even bother researching, they just blindly throw his name out there. Melo is a high volume scorer, not an efficient one. Big difference.


Pretty much everybody think melo is a geat midrange shooter not just Knicks fans. So I don't think you can call them homers for that.

An secondly this is what I Mean by you use stats to much. You really thing westbrook has a better jump shot than melo? Seriously?

Jarvo
07-27-2012, 12:49 PM
Durant.

ModernDaySavage
07-27-2012, 12:55 PM
How can we bring up % from a certain range, does the player automatically pull up from that range or what? The question isn't about mid range efficiency, it's about the best pull up J. IMO Melo has the silkiest smooth pull up J in the league. Nash, Westbrook, Durant, Kobe are all right there as well.

Also Chauncey used to have a pretty deadly pull up, obviously not in the discussion with these guys at this point in their careers. It just brings back memories.

akesh99
07-27-2012, 12:57 PM
Durant
Melo
Westbrook
Nash
Pierce

MELO 15
07-27-2012, 12:58 PM
How did I know u were going to say that, Mr. Brooklyn nets fan. Cause Melo is on the knicks, its probably easy for u to pick against him

KniCks4LiFe
07-27-2012, 12:59 PM
How is Melo coming up in this? He shoots under NBA average from 16-23 feet, hitting 35%, and barely above average from 10-15 feet, 42.3%. Ricky Rubio is literally 1% below him from 16-23, and he is considered a joke shooter.

It's homer fans.

All time it's probably Jerry West. Now a days, atleast statistically? Steve Nash and Stephon Curry.

FraziersKnicks
07-27-2012, 01:01 PM
I usually find myself agreeing with Hawkeye but I gotta defend my boy Melo here. The numbers you throw out are for his mid-range percentages, which often happen to be low percentage shots, when he's being doubled or fading away. It's an indication that Nash, Paul etc. have much better shot selection but that does by no means indicate they have a better pull up jump shot. If you can find me his percentages on one and two dribble pull ups then that's completely different, but just using his mid range percentages is not a sufficient enough reason.

I'm not being a homer here, but I do think Melo genuinely has one of the best pull ups in the league.

That being said, I would have my top 5 as Melo, KD, CP3, Nash and Westbrook.

rickshaw
07-27-2012, 01:05 PM
Numbers dont illustrate the circumstance

Let's be honest, if they did you would just ignore them unless they helped your opinion anyway.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 01:09 PM
Numbers dont illustrate the circumstance

lemme guess, your answer is Kobe.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 01:11 PM
You really do use stats waaaay to
much. You should watch the players more.

good deal. The eyes don't tell you that actual results. I trust a combination of both, which is why my first answer, without even looking, was Nash, Durant, and Paul. And what do you know, all three statistically are elite at it.

Gritz
07-27-2012, 01:13 PM
Westbrook has a cold mid range pull up

Jint.
07-27-2012, 01:15 PM
Melo :jumpy:

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 01:15 PM
Pretty much everybody think melo is a geat midrange shooter not just Knicks fans. So I don't think you can call them homers for that.

An secondly this is what I Mean by you use stats to much. You really thing westbrook has a better jump shot than melo? Seriously?

from certain ranges, yep. Melo's percentages, as do Kobe's, go down because they force a few shots a game that are completely unnecessary. Westbrooks pull ups come after complete separation. Ie, Westbrook creates higher percentage looks on his midrange jumpers.

How did Melo get recognized as such a good shooter btw? I never get it.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 01:16 PM
I usually find myself agreeing with Hawkeye but I gotta defend my boy Melo here. The numbers you throw out are for his mid-range percentages, which often happen to be low percentage shots, when he's being doubled or fading away. It's an indication that Nash, Paul etc. have much better shot selection but that does by no means indicate they have a better pull up jump shot. If you can find me his percentages on one and two dribble pull ups then that's completely different, but just using his mid range percentages is not a sufficient enough reason.

I'm not being a homer here, but I do think Melo genuinely has one of the best pull ups in the league.

That being said, I would have my top 5 as Melo, KD, CP3, Nash and Westbrook.

thn he shouldn't be taking these shots. Don't you people get that is part of being an efficient and smart scorer?

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 01:18 PM
we aren't rating guys on a horse contest, we are rating who is the most effective pull up shooter.

TeamSeattle
07-27-2012, 01:20 PM
we aren't rating guys on a horse contest, we are rating who is the most effective pull up shooter.

hawk its not even that serious man.

seikou8
07-27-2012, 01:20 PM
durant and westbrook

KniCks4LiFe
07-27-2012, 01:21 PM
thn he shouldn't be taking these shots. Don't you people get that is part of being an efficient and smart scorer?

this is half the reason why D'Antoni isn't coaching, Melo is not an effective pull jump shooter, anyone who thinks that is in La La Land, and by that I don't mean in La La Vasquez.

$KnicksAndKobe$
07-27-2012, 01:21 PM
Nash, Dirk, KD, Kobe, oh and Derick Rose has improved immensely.

QueensG_718
07-27-2012, 01:21 PM
melo

MadBomber
07-27-2012, 01:22 PM
Durant

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 01:22 PM
hawk its not even that serious man.

nah, it's just so typical of this site. There are a hanful of players with ridiculously large fan bases that blindly protect their guys in each and every possible conversation.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 01:23 PM
this is half the reason why D'Antoni isn't coaching, Melo is not an effective pull jump shooter, anyone who thinks that is in La La Land, and by that I don't mean in La La Vasquez.

Melo is the type that literally drive coaches nuts. So much scoring talent, but gets extreme tunnel vision at times, hurting his team.

Meaze_Gibson
07-27-2012, 01:25 PM
How is Melo coming up in this? He shoots under NBA average from 16-23 feet, hitting 35%, and barely above average from 10-15 feet, 42.3%. Ricky Rubio is literally 1% below him from 16-23, and he is considered a joke shooter.

But for his career, Melo has usually shot at or above league average from 16-23 ft. Including that he shoots that shot at a high rate and that he usually sees a defense that focuses on stopping him, He is actually a good shooter from that distance careerwise. One lockout year does not undo the achievements of a careers worth of work. Melo is one of the better midrange shooters in the league, can get that shot off anytime, and normally ices games with that exact shot lol...That is why he is being mentioned.

MickeyMgl
07-27-2012, 01:25 PM
Kobe Bryant
Deron Williams
Carmelo Anthony
Stephen Curry

Straight up off the dribble, no hop step. It's legal, but taking that extra hop (and I don't mean a travel) to square up does give a defender an extra nano-second to close in. Durant's "pull up", in my opinion, is usually of this variety. He gets his shot off primarily because of his height.

Gibby23
07-27-2012, 01:28 PM
KD, Westbrook, Nash, Kobe, Paul, D Will, and Paul Pierce.

Gibby23
07-27-2012, 01:32 PM
Monte as well.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 01:33 PM
But for his career, Melo has usually shot at or above league average from 16-23 ft. Including that he shoots that shot at a high rate and that he usually sees a defense that focuses on stopping him, He is actually a good shooter from that distance careerwise. One lockout year does not undo the achievements of a careers worth of work. Melo is one of the better midrange shooters in the league, can get that shot off anytime, and normally ices games with that exact shot lol...That is why he is being mentioned.

We aren't doing a lifetime achievment award. You know what is weird too, the majority of years, when his 16-23 foot shot is above average, his 10-15 drops well below average, and vice versa.

Melo is one of the better at getting his shot off, yes. But not one of the better making them over time. He simply takes way too many highly contested shots, the efficiency killer of shooters.

Meaze_Gibson
07-27-2012, 01:37 PM
As far as thread goes, I think of a hesitation then pull up (old Tmac) or stop n pop. (old J Will)

Melo Kobe Durant Nash Westbrook Rose

jayjay33
07-27-2012, 01:38 PM
we aren't rating guys on a horse contest, we are rating who is the most effective pull up shooter.

Then you are changing the question. Kobe and Melo do take bad shots and that is why their % drops. I could Change the question and say this guy or that guy is not a great jump shooter cause they can't shoot when covered.

Kobe and melo can hit all day wide open. Just lke the other guys. But put a defender in their face . An these other guy's are not so good. Shot selection and ability to shoot are "not" the same thing that is a fact. So why even try to change it like that . It almost seems like your trying to find a way to hate. The question was who has the best pull up jump shot not the best shot selection.


So the best jump shooter is the guy who is the best covered OR uncovered. Not just the guys who can hit with nobody in their face.

I

KniCks4LiFe
07-27-2012, 01:39 PM
We aren't doing a lifetime achievment award. You know what is weird too, the majority of years, when his 16-23 foot shot is above average, his 10-15 drops well below average, and vice versa.

Melo is one of the better at getting his shot off, yes. But not one of the better making them over time. He simply takes way too many highly contested shots, the efficiency killer of shooters.

this is what I'm saying. He gets it off, the success rate is not good w/ it. 35 - 44% from that area in his career. He shot 35% from that area last season. I can't even comprehend how people don't see he's a SF version of A.I. a high volume shooter.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
07-27-2012, 01:39 PM
Melo, & KD.

nickdymez
07-27-2012, 01:41 PM
lemme guess, your answer is Kobe.

I said Melo, Kobe, and Durant cuz i watch basketball games.

KniCks4LiFe
07-27-2012, 01:41 PM
Then you are changing the question. Kobe and Melo do take bad shots and that is why their % drops. I could Change the question and say this guy or that guy is not a great jump shooter cause they can't shoot when covered.

Kobe and melo can hit all day wide open. Just lke the other guys. But put a defender in their face . An these other guy's are not so good. Shot selection and ability to shoot are "not" the same thing that is a fact. So why even try to change it like that . It almost seems like your trying to find a way to hate. The question was who has the best pull up jump shot not the best shot selection.


So the best jump shooter is the guy who is the best covered OR uncovered. Not just the guys who can hit with nobody in their face.

I

It's about the success w/ the damn jumper. Not who gets it off prettier.

ivylleague1'
07-27-2012, 01:44 PM
No Brainer Allen Iverson, the unstoppable !!!! Hate or love him you cannot stop his fade away pull up shot. He is still unsigned!!!!! Without Iverson NBA sucks!!!!

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 01:44 PM
Then you are changing the question. Kobe and Melo do take bad shots and that is why their % drops. I could Change the question and say this guy or that guy is not a great jump shooter cause they can't shoot when covered.

Kobe and melo can hit all day wide open. Just lke the other guys. But put a defender in their face . An these other guy's are not so good. Shot selection and ability to shoot are "not" the same thing that is a fact. So why even try to change it like that . It almost seems like your trying to find a way to hate. The question was who has the best pull up jump shot not the best shot selection.


So the best jump shooter is the guy who is the best covered OR uncovered. Not just the guys who can hit with nobody in their face.

I

The question is who has the best pull up jumper. The answer is those who make them at the highest rate, right?

How am I hating haha? I love how that gets thrown around this site. There are simply guys who take ill-advised shots, killing their efficiency and percentages, and those who don't. There are also those that are threats to distribute, or get all the way to the rim, so defenders need to guard them accordingly, meaning it's easier for them to create the necessary separation.

If you want to answer who shoots the most midrange jumpers, it's Kobe by a mile, Melo not far behind. But that isn't the question.

nickdymez
07-27-2012, 01:44 PM
Let's be honest, if they did you would just ignore them unless they helped your opinion anyway.

Who are you bro?

avrpatsfan
07-27-2012, 01:44 PM
Durant and it's not close

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 01:45 PM
The answer is Nash fellas. He is such a threat with his ball handling and passing, you can not crowd him, and he rarely misses.

jayjay33
07-27-2012, 01:45 PM
But for his career, Melo has usually shot at or above league average from 16-23 ft. Including that he shoots that shot at a high rate and that he usually sees a defense that focuses on stopping him, He is actually a good shooter from that distance careerwise. One lockout year does not undo the achievements of a careers worth of work. Melo is one of the better midrange shooters in the league, can get that shot off anytime, and normally ices games with that exact shot lol...That is why he is being mentioned.

We aren't doing a lifetime achievment award. You know what is weird too, the majority of years, when his 16-23 foot shot is above average, his 10-15 drops well below average, and vice versa.

Melo is one of the better at getting his shot off, yes. But not one of the better making them over time. He simply takes way too many highly contested shots, the efficiency killer of shooters.

If You need somebody to hit a jump shot but i dont know from where or what kind or if a guy will be all over them or their wide open or somewhere in between. An my option are Curry, Nash or Melo I'm talking melo all day. To me that makes him "the best". Now if you wanna say he is one of the best jump shooter but he takes bad shot the fine, cause lord knows he does. But "he can't shoot" and " he takes bad shots are not the samething". If you wanna Change the topic then say that.

D12 fan
07-27-2012, 01:46 PM
Monta Ellis has a nice pullup jumper.He's not on the Nat'l stage a lot so people don't get to watch him play a lot.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 01:46 PM
I said Melo, Kobe, and Durant cuz i watch basketball games.

I don't believe you know what you are watching.

You love to push people on this site, don't you? You listed one I can agree with, and listed as well.

Meaze_Gibson
07-27-2012, 01:48 PM
We aren't doing a lifetime achievment award. You know what is weird too, the majority of years, when his 16-23 foot shot is above average, his 10-15 drops well below average, and vice versa.

Melo is one of the better at getting his shot off, yes. But not one of the better making them over time. He simply takes way too many highly contested shots, the efficiency killer of shooters.

The majority of pull up j's are done at the 16-23 ft distance though. The 10-15 is one of the least attempted shots in basketball lol. Most superstars, on average, only shoot from that distance twice a game and very rarely is it a pull up jumper. I just don't see how that shot is relevant. The fact is though, for his career, he takes a volume amount of highly contested pull up jumpers and hits them at an above average clip. That is why he should be mentioned in this thread.

KniCks4LiFe
07-27-2012, 01:50 PM
The answer is Nash fellas. He is such a threat with his ball handling and passing, you can not crowd him, and he rarely misses.

In 2011 It's actually Nash and Curry. They had the best success rate for shots off the dribble in the whole NBA. I never would have guessed Curry though. I had Durant and Kobe easily.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 01:50 PM
If You need somebody to hit a jump shot but i dont know from where or what kind or if a guy will be all over them or their wide open or somewhere in between. An my option are Curry, Nash or Melo I'm talking melo all day. To me that makes him "the best". Now if you wanna say he is one of the best jump shooter but he takes bad shot the fine, cause lord knows he does. But "he can't shoot" and " he takes bad shots are not the samething". If you wanna Change the topic then say that.

Never said Melo can't shoot. But his shot selection, while different then the acual shot, makes his percentages drop to average.

Having great fundamental moves, posting up, handling the ball, multiple moves, is great, but the end result is all that matters.

How on earth does shot selection not account for how effective a player is? That is literally the dumbest thing I have heard.

KB-Pau-DH2012
07-27-2012, 01:51 PM
All 4 of these guys are the best for different reasons:


Kobe Bryant: able to twist and contort his body, fades away and still able to make a shot, best at creating separation between him and the defender, can basically make any type of manufactured pull up jump shot with 2 or 3 guys in his grill.


Kevin Durant: that length, that ability to fling with great precision and accuracy, the range.


Carmelo Anthony: probably the most fundamental prototypical looking pull up J with a little bit of a shake-n-bake.


Russell Westbrook: the elevation and vertical jump is the best in the biz, followed by a soft and beautiful follow through, and probably the best pull up jumpshooter in transition.




Nobody comes close to those 4 guys.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 01:51 PM
The majority of pull up j's are done at the 16-23 ft distance though. The 10-15 is one of the least attempted shots in basketball lol. Most superstars, on average, only shoot from that distance twice a game and very rarely is it a pull up jumper. I just don't see how that shot is relevant. The fact is though, for his career, he takes a volume amount of highly contested pull up jumpers and hits them at an above average clip. That is why he should be mentioned in this thread.

He can be mentioned, but there are others that should be mentioned before him.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 01:53 PM
All 4 of these guys are the best for different reasons:


Kobe Bryant: able to twist and contort his body, fades away and still able to make a shot, best at creating separation between him and the defender, can basically make any type of manufactured pull up jump shot with 2 or 3 guys in his grill.


Kevin Durant: that length, that ability to fling with great precision and accuracy, the range.


Carmelo Anthony: probably the most fundamental prototypical looking pull up J with a little bit of a shake-n-bake.


Russell Westbrook: the elevation and vertical jump is the best in the biz, followed by a soft and beautiful follow through, and probably the best pull up jumpshooter in transition.




Nobody comes close to those 4 guys.

So despite Nash, Curry, and Paul being far more effective with their pull up game, they shouldn't be mentioned with the guys above?

hidalgo
07-27-2012, 01:55 PM
Durant, Melo, Ray Allen

meloman1592
07-27-2012, 01:56 PM
Ummm i'll be the first to say...chauncey billups

marj987
07-27-2012, 01:58 PM
Lol Paul barely jumps when he shoots and people rarely block it.

KB-Pau-DH2012
07-27-2012, 01:58 PM
So despite Nash, Curry, and Paul being far more effective with their pull up game, they shouldn't be mentioned with the guys above?

I'm so sorry, I forgot about Nash. And you can probably make the case for both DWill and Dirk as well.

But Curry and Paul have been too injured the last couple of yrs for me to consistently see them knock down pull up J after pull up J.



Another guy I'm probably leaving out who is good but not "great" when it comes to this question is Joe Johnson.

KB-Pau-DH2012
07-27-2012, 01:59 PM
Durant, Melo, Ray Allen

Ray Allen is a catch-and-shoot player. :laugh2:

D12 fan
07-27-2012, 02:01 PM
Monta Ellis says hi to the topic.

Lakeshow24KB
07-27-2012, 02:02 PM
Westy easily. But Austin rivers is gonna give him a run for his money

KB-Pau-DH2012
07-27-2012, 02:04 PM
Monta Ellis says hi to the topic.

who? :confused:

KniCks4LiFe
07-27-2012, 02:04 PM
Kerry Kittles and Reggie Miller laughs at these names.

justinnum1
07-27-2012, 02:04 PM
Durant and by a mile.

Jason terry is good too.

KB-Pau-DH2012
07-27-2012, 02:05 PM
Kerry Kittles and Reggie Miller laughs at these names.

And I laugh at you, because neither are in the nba.

Question asks who has the best pull up jumper in the nba, not all time.

Plus, Reggie was more catch-and-shoot, he would barely dribble, dribble and pull up.

TeamSeattle
07-27-2012, 02:06 PM
People keep mixing up catch-and-shoot and pull-up jumpers. If you don't know the difference; don't comment.

KniCks4LiFe
07-27-2012, 02:07 PM
And I laugh at you, because neither are in the nba.

Question asks who has the best pull up jumper in the nba, not all time.

Plus, Reggie was more catch-and-shoot, he would barely dribble, dribble and pull up.

but you see how it's wrong? That's basically what everybody else is doing. My point was made.:cool:

KB-Pau-DH2012
07-27-2012, 02:08 PM
but you see how it's wrong? That's basically what everybody else is doing. My point was made.:cool:

Ah okay, I didn't read the posts on the previous pages of this thread.

Thanks for the clarification.

jayjay33
07-27-2012, 02:11 PM
If You need somebody to hit a jump shot but i dont know from where or what kind or if a guy will be all over them or their wide open or somewhere in between. An my option are Curry, Nash or Melo I'm talking melo all day. To me that makes him "the best". Now if you wanna say he is one of the best jump shooter but he takes bad shot the fine, cause lord knows he does. But "he can't shoot" and " he takes bad shots are not the samething". If you wanna Change the topic then say that.

Never said Melo can't shoot. But his shot selection, while different then the acual shot, makes his percentages drop to average.

Having great fundamental moves, posting up, handling the ball, multiple moves, is great, but the end result is all that matters.

How on earth does shot selection not account for how effective a player is? That is literally the dumbest thing I have heard.


Mabye Because your the ony one who keeps changing BEST into EFFECTIVE. It cant be the stuipdest thing you heard since you didnt really hear it. Based on your theroy every low level scrub who can hit a WIDE OPEN midrange shot is a BETTER shooter than melo.

So basicly i can be just as good as you at shooting wide open shots and better than you at shooting guarded shots. But somehow you are a better shooter. Now that's the stupidest thing I have ever heard. An you know it is too. Know how I know that? Cause you are going out of your way to change "best" to most "effective".

So you can just say the best shooters are the guys who only shoot when they are wide open and nobody Is around them. As dumb as it sounds that's what your saying. As evidence by the whole Rubio thing.

thekmp211
07-27-2012, 02:12 PM
nash and cp3, then durant and melo i guess. nash to me is the clear choice but all of those guys are very good.

thekmp211
07-27-2012, 02:13 PM
wasn't going to go there, but melo has a great jumper that he uses wayyyyy too much. same with kobe. that hurts their candidacy. shot selection matters here. pulling up contested 15 times a game, even if you are a good shooter, makes you a bad pull up shooter.

D12 fan
07-27-2012, 02:14 PM
Kerry Kittles and Reggie Miller laughs at these names.

This is not a alltime list it's current NBA players.

Best pullup of alltime is Tim Hardaway.:cool:

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 02:14 PM
Mabye Because your the ony one who keeps changing BEST into EFFECTIVE. It cant be the stuipdest thing you heard since you didnt really hear it. Based on your theroy every low level scrub who can hit a WIDE OPEN midrange shot is a BETTER shooter than melo.

So basicly i can be just as good as you at shooting wide open shots and better than you at shooting guarded shots. But somehow you are a better shooter. Now that's the stupidest thing I have ever heard. An you know it is too. Know how I know that? Cause you are going out of your way to change "best" to most "effective".

So you can just say the best shooters are the guys who only shoot when they are wide open and nobody Is around them. As dumb as it sounds that's what your saying. As evidence by the whole Rubio thing.

the best is the most effective. Very simple. It's the same thing, as long as you aren't using some miniscule sample size. I am not listing guys who are 4th options and shoot 6 times a game. These are all stars.

Come up with whatever you like to justify your picks, fact is, I measure good, as being effective.

D-Leethal
07-27-2012, 02:14 PM
Steve Nash

jayjay33
07-27-2012, 02:15 PM
All 4 of these guys are the best for different reasons:


Kobe Bryant: able to twist and contort his body, fades away and still able to make a shot, best at creating separation between him and the defender, can basically make any type of manufactured pull up jump shot with 2 or 3 guys in his grill.


Kevin Durant: that length, that ability to fling with great precision and accuracy, the range.


Carmelo Anthony: probably the most fundamental prototypical looking pull up J with a little bit of a shake-n-bake.


Russell Westbrook: the elevation and vertical jump is the best in the biz, followed by a soft and beautiful follow through, and probably the best pull up jumpshooter in transition.




Nobody comes close to those 4 guys.

So despite Nash, Curry, and Paul being far more effective with their pull up game, they shouldn't be mentioned with the guys above?


Man you and this damn "effective". Stop it it with that. That does not mean the best it just means you can it a shot if you are wide open. Why don't you throw Kurt Thomas in there as one of the best shooters. He can hit wide open too.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 02:15 PM
wasn't going to go there, but melo has a great jumper that he uses wayyyyy too much. same with kobe. that hurts their candidacy. shot selection matters here. pulling up 15 times a game, even if you are a good shooter, makes you a bad pull up shooter.

I don't get why Knicks and Laker fans **** all over me for pointing out simplistic things to understand. You are damn rigth "good" ties in with "effective".

DoMeFavors
07-27-2012, 02:16 PM
Melo is awful from behind the 3 point line, Id go with Jason Terry

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 02:17 PM
Man you and this damn "effective". Stop it it with that. That does not mean the best it just means you can it a shot if you are wide open. Why don't you throw Kurt Thomas in there as one of the best shooters. He can hit wide open too.

read my post above bud. I am only listing stars, guys who put up shots. I am not picking some outlier.

Best midrange shooter is a guy who meets certain qualifications (meaning, he actually shoots a bunch), and makes them at a good percentage. Shooting multiple highly contested shots kills your efficiency, meaning, your "goodness", in that area compared to some other guys.

KniCks4LiFe
07-27-2012, 02:17 PM
Melo is awful from behind the 3 point line, Id go with Jason Terry

wtf does that have to do w/ it :laugh2:

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 02:18 PM
Me and my damn "effectiveness". The nerve of me liking stars who score efficiently.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 02:19 PM
Melo is awful from behind the 3 point line, Id go with Jason Terry

I don't know if I am more floored that you brought up 3 pointers, or that you didn't say Joe Johnson and Deron Williams.

KB-Pau-DH2012
07-27-2012, 02:19 PM
I don't get why Knicks and Laker fans **** all over me for pointing out simplistic things to understand. You are damn rigth "good" ties in with "effective".

LOL I didn't attack you buddy, I just simply responded to your post. I think you are correct with the "effective" thing. You made some good arguments.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 02:20 PM
LOL I didn't attack you buddy, I just simply responded to your post. I think you are correct with the "effective" thing. You made some good arguments.

I absolutely am not talking about you man. Sorry. I meant in general on this site, for 4 years.

YungDaSensai
07-27-2012, 02:25 PM
melo i mean that mofo will hit the pullup from anywhere. He has the sickest pullup and step back jumper in the league by far.

While i agree with your comments on Melo being the best with pullup jumper, CP3 by far has the best stepback

YashBoone
07-27-2012, 02:25 PM
Alan Houston !!!!!

Da Knicks
07-27-2012, 02:30 PM
well, way to hop over the point dude. Melo doesn't belong in this thread. There are plenty of guys more accurate in those pull up ranges.

the biggest melo hater, hi!!:)

DoMeFavors
07-27-2012, 02:31 PM
Melo cant even get lift on his shot he doesnt have a high release and he doesnt jump high. Guy is very heavy.

meloman1592
07-27-2012, 02:32 PM
Melo is awful from behind the 3 point line, Id go with Jason Terry

Cmon im sure u can troll better than that

x McLovin x
07-27-2012, 02:32 PM
Shawn Marion!!!

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 02:33 PM
Alan Houston !!!!!

he was awesome at it. I miss him.

TeamSeattle
07-27-2012, 02:33 PM
Melo cant even get lift on his shot he doesnt have a high release and he doesnt jump high. Guy is very heavy.

This girl man wow :facepalm:

meloman1592
07-27-2012, 02:34 PM
Melo cant even get lift on his shot he doesnt have a high release and he doesnt jump high. Guy is very heavy.

And deron williams is a bikini model right?

JLynn943
07-27-2012, 02:35 PM
Nash and Westbrook come to mind instantly.

DoMeFavors
07-27-2012, 02:35 PM
And deron williams is a bikini model right?

No , I dont think Deron has the best pull up. Im saying to those who think Melo is a good pull up shooter.

KniCks4LiFe
07-27-2012, 02:36 PM
This girl man wow :facepalm:

that's a girl? that explains some of it.

meloman1592
07-27-2012, 02:39 PM
I forgot domefavors was a girl...i wont take her responses seriously anymore

Losoway
07-27-2012, 02:47 PM
when melo is hot . i seen him hit shots that you couldnt make with a cheatcode

Melo - Durant = tie

eugene
07-27-2012, 02:54 PM
dirk

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 02:56 PM
dirk

how the hell did I forget Dirk?

Gagan136
07-27-2012, 03:01 PM
Melo and Durant, Westbrook not bad either.

STA_PLAR
07-27-2012, 03:14 PM
I think some people are confused as to what "pull up" actually means.

Some may assume that it is coming down in transition and pulling up when the defense thinks you will take the ball inside.

A Pull-Up jumpshot is simply dribbling which leads to a jumpshot in continuous motion. NewsFlash: This can occur in a half-court offense.

If it comes to transition it is def Westbrook right now.

As far as overall pull-up I would put Kobe and Melo at the top with the edge to Melo because he is not as much of a nutcase.

I have Durant slightly under them because he seems to catch and shoot more often. For Melo and Kobe it is their go to move.

ttam68
07-27-2012, 03:21 PM
this is half the reason why D'Antoni isn't coaching, Melo is not an effective pull jump shooter, anyone who thinks that is in La La Land, and by that I don't mean in La La Vasquez.

Melo is the type that literally drive coaches nuts. So much scoring talent, but gets extreme tunnel vision at times, hurting his team.

How do you literally drive someone nuts?

justinnum1
07-27-2012, 03:25 PM
How do you literally drive someone nuts?

He's right.

Karl was happy he was gone and he had problems with Mike D.

I can see woodson giving into melo even if it hurts the team. If melo doesn't get what he wants then the coach will probably get fired.

naps
07-27-2012, 03:39 PM
Westbrook has a pretty good one as well. He runs so fast and then pulls up when basically everyone is thinking he's going to attack the rim. He literally makes the opposing team like "wtf has just happened!?"

JoinSportsTeam
07-27-2012, 03:42 PM
Kobe for sure. I like melo because of his size but I think kobe edges him

BklynKnicks3
07-27-2012, 03:55 PM
melo mid range. Durant and crawford deep

hgtiger32
07-27-2012, 04:02 PM
Westbrook

thekmp211
07-27-2012, 04:07 PM
dirk, pierce is also a guy who deserves mention.

anyone got pull-up situational stats from synergy or something?

x McLovin x
07-27-2012, 04:16 PM
Ben Wallace!!!!

Fla.SticKy
07-27-2012, 04:20 PM
Durant all day

jayjay33
07-27-2012, 04:32 PM
Me and my damn "effectiveness". The nerve of me liking stars who score efficiently.

Yes because thats not the question. The question is who is the best. but let me ask you what you call it. Just for the sake of argumnet lets say you have 2 guys, guy A is the better shooter if both are wide open he is also the better shooter if both are guarded. Basicly saying that guy A is better than guy B at shoot every type of jump shot. how would you word that? I would say he is the better shooter. But to you even if guy A is better at shooting wide open shots than guy B if guy B only shoot when he is open then that means he is the "better" shooter. I trying to see if we are just confused on the wording. What do you call the guy who is acutal shooting of the basketball? Would he be the best "all around shooter" there by taking in to account more than just wide open shots?

maybe we just have different ways of looking at it. As a bball player growing up. I cant every remember a guy who could only shoot when he was wide open being consider a better shooter than a guy who could shoot wide open or covered.

I think maybe what we should be debating is, is shot selection and actual shooting ability the same exact thing. Because thats where I think this difference of opinion is. An it doesnt really seem like most people see them as the same thing.

jayjay33
07-27-2012, 04:35 PM
the best is the most effective. Very simple. It's the same thing, as long as you aren't using some miniscule sample size. I am not listing guys who are 4th options and shoot 6 times a game. These are all stars.

Come up with whatever you like to justify your picks, fact is, I measure good, as being effective.

Also you start of using rubio so thats not true.

thekmp211
07-27-2012, 04:43 PM
Yes because thats not the question. The question is who is the best. but let me ask you what you call it. Just for the sake of argumnet lets say you have 2 guys, guy A is the better shooter if both are wide open he is also the better shooter if both are guarded. Basicly saying that guy A is better than guy B at shoot every type of jump shot. how would you word that? I would say he is the better shooter. But to you even if guy A is better at shooting wide open shots than guy B if guy B only shoot when he is open then that means he is the "better" shooter. I trying to see if we are just confused on the wording. What do you call the guy who is acutal shooting of the basketball? Would he be the best "all around shooter" there by taking in to account more than just wide open shots?

maybe we just have different ways of looking at it. As a bball player growing up. I cant every remember a guy who could only shoot when he was wide open being consider a better shooter than a guy who could shoot wide open or covered.

I think maybe what we should be debating is, is shot selection and actual shooting ability the same exact thing. Because thats where I think this difference of opinion is. An it doesnt really seem like most people see them as the same thing.

i think it's more people putting weight on how pretty a jumper is, how streaky a shooter can be and what his peak is while on fire. and of course a nice dash of classic homerism.

you just can't evaluate someone as the "best" at something without discussing their efficiency. and if they are consistently not efficient, or less efficient than others in the discussion, i just don't see where there is room to call them better.

melo has a very pretty jumper, and can certainly get hot. but that doesn't make him a better shooter than say nash, or dirk, or cp3, who fit those descriptions and also employ much better decision making when using the pull up.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 04:46 PM
Also you start of using rubio so thats not true.

To show that one of the worst shooters in the NBA shot 1% less from the area. Circumstances are obviously different by a mile, but it means Melo's accuracy out there isn't impressive.

You can change the words around all you want. When someone asks me who has the best pull-up jumper in the NBA, to me, that means someone who uses it frequently, and effectively. I don't care if he whips out his wang and uses it to shoot, if it goes in, that is all that matters.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 04:48 PM
and no, shot selection and shooting ability have nothing to do with each other by themselves, but when you ask someone who is the best at something, shooting pull up jumpers in the NBA, the answer should be someone who shoots them often, and someone who makes them often. Period.

Lakers + Giants
07-27-2012, 04:56 PM
IMO Westbrook. I honestly like his jumper more than KD's.

Chronz
07-27-2012, 05:16 PM
What exactly are you asking for? Someone who can create a shot off the dribble by breaking down the defense or someone who makes/settles for shots with defenders draped all over him?

Chronz
07-27-2012, 05:17 PM
PS based on last year, Lin was elite at isolation jumpers off the dribble. I don't know if thats a good thing

mRc08
07-27-2012, 05:20 PM
In three years Klay Thompson

hidalgo
07-27-2012, 05:23 PM
Westbrook reminds me alot of Allen Iverson

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 05:36 PM
What exactly are you asking for? Someone who can create a shot off the dribble by breaking down the defense or someone who makes/settles for shots with defenders draped all over him?

apparently there are a lot of people in here who are looking for players that simply take pull ups. Making them isn't as important for some reason...

nyKnicks126
07-27-2012, 05:38 PM
Dilema... Who has the best pull up jumper in the NBA, and people spent the whole day talking about it.

Shammyguy3
07-27-2012, 05:41 PM
If we're talking strictly between 16-23 feet, then these guys come to mind from this last season (meaning recently, otherwise Derrick Rose from his rookie/sophomore year would be my choice):

Chris Paul, Dirk Nowitzki, Brandon Bass, Steve Nash, Kevin Durant, Jason Smith, Carlos Boozer.

Among others, but those guys when factoring in percentages along with sample size

Chronz
07-27-2012, 05:54 PM
What exactly are you asking for? Someone who can create a shot off the dribble by breaking down the defense or someone who makes/settles for shots with defenders draped all over him?

Seriously I want to know what to look at

kobebabe
07-27-2012, 05:59 PM
Melo, kobe, Durant

Wyatt7
07-27-2012, 06:30 PM
MAtt Bonner

jayjay33
07-27-2012, 06:40 PM
and no, shot selection and shooting ability have nothing to do with each other by themselves, but when you ask someone who is the best at something, shooting pull up jumpers in the NBA, the answer should be someone who shoots them often, and someone who makes them often. Period.

I see what your saying but when you ask me who has the best "jump Shot" like that I am going to look at it in terms of pure shooting ability. I mean he specificly asked about the jump shot it self.

I remember reggie miller and steve kerr talking about this and kerr said miller was a "much" better shooter not just better, than he was because kerr could only shoot when he was open. I consider the guy who can shoot the best under any circumstances to be the best, not just the guy who can shoot when he is open.

jp611
07-27-2012, 06:44 PM
Durant, Melo and Russell are 3 that come to mind right away

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 06:56 PM
I see what your saying but when you ask me who has the best "jump Shot" like that I am going to look at it in terms of pure shooting ability. I mean he specificly asked about the jump shot it self.

I remember reggie miller and steve kerr talking about this and kerr said miller was a "much" better shooter not just better, than he was because kerr could only shoot when he was open. I consider the guy who can shoot the best under any circumstances to be the best, not just the guy who can shoot when he is open.

Me too, which is why Melo is far from my answer here. He drops himself from the conversation by taking shots nobody should take. Just like Kobe. I didn't list snipers, I listed stars who create off the dribble. I can't help some like to jack it up with a guy in their grill or over a double team, destroying their percentages, that is on them. They now drop behind the guy who either creates better separation so he doesn't have to deal with that, or chooses to give a teammate a BETTER shot.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 06:57 PM
Yes because thats not the question. The question is who is the best. but let me ask you what you call it. Just for the sake of argumnet lets say you have 2 guys, guy A is the better shooter if both are wide open he is also the better shooter if both are guarded. Basicly saying that guy A is better than guy B at shoot every type of jump shot. how would you word that? I would say he is the better shooter. But to you even if guy A is better at shooting wide open shots than guy B if guy B only shoot when he is open then that means he is the "better" shooter. I trying to see if we are just confused on the wording. What do you call the guy who is acutal shooting of the basketball? Would he be the best "all around shooter" there by taking in to account more than just wide open shots?

maybe we just have different ways of looking at it. As a bball player growing up. I cant every remember a guy who could only shoot when he was wide open being consider a better shooter than a guy who could shoot wide open or covered.

I think maybe what we should be debating is, is shot selection and actual shooting ability the same exact thing. Because thats where I think this difference of opinion is. An it doesnt really seem like most people see them as the same thing.

I have given you my answer. The "best" is the guy who meets a minimum (take out the guys who don't do it often), who makes it the highest percentage of time.

That is my answer. If you disagree, that is your choice. You aren't changing my mind dude.

Hawkeye15
07-27-2012, 07:00 PM
Also you start of using rubio so thats not true.

I used it simply because Rubio is a terrible shooter. It's a name easily identified with terrible shooting, and they are 1% off. I wasn't comparing the two at all.

Look at the guys I listed. See anything outside primary scoring options or playmakers? Not me..

Bucks360
07-27-2012, 07:17 PM
Definitely not the best, but Mo Williams comes to mind, especially in his prime.

I Rock Shaqs
07-27-2012, 07:19 PM
All the homer knicks say easily melo everyother NBA fan says it Durant/kobe/melo.

Probably Durant though melo and Kobe are not to far behind.

Way to try and bait people but in the first page, yes the one u have to look at, I said easily Melo even know i hate the knicks, so therefore you are WRONG.

ohreally
07-27-2012, 07:20 PM
Kerry Kittles and Reggie Miller laughs at these names.

I ain't checking no stats but I'd say Bernard King laughs at Kerry Kittles and Reggie Miller.

BobbyHillSwag
07-27-2012, 07:22 PM
You really do use stats waaaay to
much. You should watch the players more.

this, but he has a clear agenda against some players(melo) so dont mind him

MrfadeawayJB
07-27-2012, 07:24 PM
Melo, Durant, Pierce or Westbrook

Aust
07-27-2012, 07:26 PM
Durant, Melo, Kobe

ragee
07-27-2012, 07:27 PM
What about JET?

shep33
07-27-2012, 07:33 PM
Deron Williams for me

FraziersKnicks
07-27-2012, 07:41 PM
thn he shouldn't be taking these shots. Don't you people get that is part of being an efficient and smart scorer?

Absolutely.. That's why I went on to say CP3, Nash etc. are all much smarter with their shot selection.

But this thread isn't about that.. It's about who has the best pull up jumpshot in the NBA. And from the basketball I watch (and trust me, I watch A LOT), Melo has one of the best.

I Rock Shaqs
07-27-2012, 07:48 PM
KG used to have a really good pull-up

Chronz
07-27-2012, 07:55 PM
thn he shouldn't be taking these shots. Don't you people get that is part of being an efficient and smart scorer?

Absolutely.. That's why I went on to say CP3, Nash etc. are all much smarter with their shot selection.

But this thread isn't about that.. It's about who has the best pull up jumpshot in the NBA. And from the basketball I watch (and trust me, I watch A LOT), Melo has one of the best.
so pull up shots equates to settling for bad shots. Just want to know what I should check.

BobbyHillSwag
07-27-2012, 07:58 PM
so pull up shots equates to settling for bad shots. Just want to know what I should check.

no it's the ability to make any type of pullup not just easy shots with super amounts of space. someone in this thread nailed it earlier when he wrote kerr said miller was a better shooter than him cause he didnt have to just shoot wide open.

jayjay33
07-27-2012, 08:04 PM
Yes because thats not the question. The question is who is the best. but let me ask you what you call it. Just for the sake of argumnet lets say you have 2 guys, guy A is the better shooter if both are wide open he is also the better shooter if both are guarded. Basicly saying that guy A is better than guy B at shoot every type of jump shot. how would you word that? I would say he is the better shooter. But to you even if guy A is better at shooting wide open shots than guy B if guy B only shoot when he is open then that means he is the "better" shooter. I trying to see if we are just confused on the wording. What do you call the guy who is acutal shooting of the basketball? Would he be the best "all around shooter" there by taking in to account more than just wide open shots?

maybe we just have different ways of looking at it. As a bball player growing up. I cant every remember a guy who could only shoot when he was wide open being consider a better shooter than a guy who could shoot wide open or covered.

I think maybe what we should be debating is, is shot selection and actual shooting ability the same exact thing. Because thats where I think this difference of opinion is. An it doesnt really seem like most people see them as the same thing.

I have given you my answer. The "best" is the guy who meets a minimum (take out the guys who don't do it often), who makes it the highest percentage of time.

That is my answer. If you disagree, that is your choice. You aren't changing my mind dude.


He asked who had the best "jump shot". I took that to mean the actual "jump shot". But your welcome to change it to whatever you want.

FraziersKnicks
07-27-2012, 08:11 PM
so pull up shots equates to settling for bad shots. Just want to know what I should check.

No, not all pull up jumpshots are bad shots. Westbrook proved that in the finals when a lot of his shots were mid range pull ups that had their defenders on the back foot.

What I'm saying is a lot of the midrange shots Melo take our bad shots, as a Knicks fan I hate this. But when he goes into his one-dribble pull up, from what I see there are few better.

I'm completely open to being proven wrong with the necessary statistics, but when Melo takes that one or two dribbles before pulling and popping, I see him as one of the best.

StarvingKnick22
07-27-2012, 08:12 PM
Steve Novak.

jayjay33
07-27-2012, 08:13 PM
Absolutely.. That's why I went on to say CP3, Nash etc. are all much smarter with their shot selection.

But this thread isn't about that.. It's about who has the best pull up jumpshot in the NBA. And from the basketball I watch (and trust me, I watch A LOT), Melo has one of the best.

This is what what he refuses to except, he keeps trying to change this thread into something it's not to justify his position. taking better shots AND actually being able to shoot the ball better are not the same thing. The op asked specifically about the "jump Shot" it self.

jayjay33
07-27-2012, 08:16 PM
no it's the ability to make any type of pullup not just easy shots with super amounts of space. someone in this thread nailed it earlier when he wrote kerr said miller was a better shooter than him cause he didnt have to just shoot wide open.

:nod:

AIverson
07-27-2012, 08:48 PM
Someone want to explain why people are saying Melo and Kobe? They hardly ever hit those low % pull ups they take.

My picks would be:
Dirk
Steve Nash
CP3
Ray Allen
Durant

Top 5 IMO. Too bad Sam Cassel isn't playing... That guy made every ****in thing.

BobbyHillSwag
07-27-2012, 08:50 PM
Someone want to explain why people are saying Melo and Kobe? They hardly ever hit those low % pull ups they take.

My picks would be:
Dirk
Steve Nash
CP3
Ray Allen
Durant

Top 5 IMO. Too bad Sam Cassel isn't playing... That guy made every ****in thing.

because they are some of the best pull up jumpshooters of all time just like the guy in your avatar.

iliketurtles24
07-27-2012, 09:02 PM
Durant !

Lake_Show2416
07-27-2012, 09:07 PM
Durant
Nash
Cp3

Lake_Show2416
07-27-2012, 09:08 PM
Steve Novak.

its a bit easier when a player is completely wide open when shooting cuz the other players demand more attention

yaswaggin
07-27-2012, 09:37 PM
Steve Novak.

Pullup, not catch and shoot

Novak is one of the best catch and shoot shooters though

4 POINT PLAY LJ
07-27-2012, 10:27 PM
Someone want to explain why people are saying Melo and Kobe? They hardly ever hit those low % pull ups they take.

My picks would be:
Dirk
Steve Nash
CP3
Ray Allen
Durant

Top 5 IMO. Too bad Sam Cassel isn't playing... That guy made every ****in thing.

Wtf hell no for dirk, ray Allen, cp3, and Steve Nash. They have to set their feet before they shoot.
Durant, Melo, Kobe got the wrist power to not set their feet and just jump and shoot. That's a pullup

hidalgo
07-27-2012, 10:35 PM
imagine if LeBron developed a deadly jumper (still his biggest weakness), my goodness he'd be totally unstoppable. everyone think him bricking last sec shots means he isn't clutch, well i don't see it that way, he's just not that good a jump shooter. so naturally they miss

KnickNyKnick
07-27-2012, 11:52 PM
pierce, joe johnson, durant, kobe

--23--
07-28-2012, 12:00 AM
Pierce, Kobe, Melo, Durant & Jason Terry

soundjunkies2
07-28-2012, 12:02 AM
Nash and Billups were the first two that came to mind.

b@llhog24
07-28-2012, 12:33 AM
I usually find myself agreeing with Hawkeye but I gotta defend my boy Melo here. The numbers you throw out are for his mid-range percentages, which often happen to be low percentage shots, when he's being doubled or fading away. It's an indication that Nash, Paul etc. have much better shot selection but that does by no means indicate they have a better pull up jump shot. If you can find me his percentages on one and two dribble pull ups then that's completely different, but just using his mid range percentages is not a sufficient enough reason.

I'm not being a homer here, but I do think Melo genuinely has one of the best pull ups in the league.

That being said, I would have my top 5 as Melo, KD, CP3, Nash and Westbrook.

+1


from certain ranges, yep. Melo's percentages, as do Kobe's, go down because they force a few shots a game that are completely unnecessary. Westbrooks pull ups come after complete separation. Ie, Westbrook creates higher percentage looks on his midrange jumpers.

How did Melo get recognized as such a good shooter btw? I never get it.

Because he has a silky smooth jumper.


We aren't doing a lifetime achievment award. You know what is weird too, the majority of years, when his 16-23 foot shot is above average, his 10-15 drops well below average, and vice versa.

Melo is one of the better at getting his shot off, yes. But not one of the better making them over time. He simply takes way too many highly contested shots, the efficiency killer of shooters.

Past accomplishments should always play a factor in threads like this. Supposed John Jenkins pull-up jumpers just tears it up next season, should we say he's the best?


In 2011 It's actually Nash and Curry. They had the best success rate for shots off the dribble in the whole NBA. I never would have guessed Curry though. I had Durant and Kobe easily.

Really? Curry is one of the best shooters in the league.

AIverson
07-28-2012, 01:12 AM
Wtf hell no for dirk, ray Allen, cp3, and Steve Nash. They have to set their feet before they shoot.
Durant, Melo, Kobe got the wrist power to not set their feet and just jump and shoot. That's a pullup

I don't what game you're watching, but the players I've mentioned all have great pull up jumpers. To say players like Dirk and Nash need their feet set to shoot... I don't think we're watching the same NBA. A pull-up jumper is when a player dribbles, stops and shoots a jumper. It's perfectly possible to get your feet set during a pull-up; in fact, that's how you're actually coached to shoot a pull-up jumper. Ray Allen through out the course of his career has done this very well. What you're referring to is an off balance jump shot, something entirely different than a pull-up.

Underdogz∞
07-28-2012, 03:12 AM
Hard to think of anyone else better than Durant his length makes his unstoppable and its money almost everytime. He gets bored and goes away from it once he learns to shoot his best shot everytime he will become even better than he is now. If it works you have to have the discipline to do it everytime if it gets boring oh well.

Underdogz∞
07-28-2012, 03:17 AM
Westbrook's got a nice little stop and pop so does Lebron. I used to love TMacs pull up to. And Allen Iverson's was wet. The best ones and worst ones to stop are the players who do it but fade away when they do it at same time

KnicksTape
07-28-2012, 07:18 AM
You can tell many people on here never played a high level of basketball or just don't understand the question.

For me it's Melo, Pierce, Nash, dirk
Klay Thompson's pull up will be deadly in transition as he continues to get better

4 POINT PLAY LJ
07-28-2012, 07:48 AM
Westbrook's got a nice little stop and pop so does Lebron. I used to love TMacs pull up to. And Allen Iverson's was wet. The best ones and worst ones to stop are the players who do it but fade away when they do it at same time

This guy knows what a pull up is

BobbyHillSwag
07-28-2012, 09:43 AM
This guy knows what a pull up is

no doubt, although lebron and westbrook's werent even close to iverson's and tmacs. Iverson had one of the wettest midrange jumpers in nba history. Of course someone will try to derail this with stats(that are sometimes made up).

Chronz
07-28-2012, 10:05 AM
no it's the ability to make any type of pullup not just easy shots with super amounts of space. someone in this thread nailed it earlier when he wrote kerr said miller was a better shooter than him cause he didnt have to just shoot wide open.
Exactly, the ability to make bad shots equals the inability to create open shots.

That comparison is flawed because Kerr wasnt a prolific shooter.

Chronz
07-28-2012, 10:08 AM
No, not all pull up jumpshots are bad shots. Westbrook proved that in the finals when a lot of his shots were mid range pull ups that had their defenders on the back foot.
Well thats what Im wondering, like Melo takes alot of horrible pullups, so why is he mentioned. He can make the hardest pullups but its such a low% shot its kind of like cheering on someone who cant create adequate space.




What I'm saying is a lot of the midrange shots Melo take our bad shots, as a Knicks fan I hate this. But when he goes into his one-dribble pull up, from what I see there are few better.
I see someone who misses a shitload of them but can go on a streak where he doesnt miss many. Like the year before the lockout when Melo first got traded to the Knicks he hit 40% of his 3's in isolation, that is a staggeringly high #, one that was certainly to go down. I havent checked yet but Im sure it did because his % in Denver that same year were like in the teens.


I'm completely open to being proven wrong with the necessary statistics, but when Melo takes that one or two dribbles before pulling and popping, I see him as one of the best.
Given what you told me, Ill do my best.

BobbyHillSwag
07-28-2012, 10:11 AM
Exactly, the ability to make bad shots equals the inability to create open shots.

That comparison is flawed because Kerr wasnt a prolific shooter.

well, that's interesting, to me it doesn't mean the inability to create their own shot. Alot of people are putting players like paul and nash. What exactly do they do? pound the ball into the ground to create an open shot. Melo doesnt take many dribbles and kobe use to not dribble as much to create his shot. Not really kobe and melo's fault they are gettin d'ed up by much better defenders and multiple defenders. Nash and pauls pullups come off of screens, they really even shouldnt be in comparison to the likes of durant, melo, and kobe.

Chronz
07-28-2012, 10:22 AM
well, that's interesting, to me it doesn't mean the inability to create their own shot.
Where did I say that? Why are they settling for low% shots is the question.

Im not talking about creating just any shot, lots of players can create shots, like Ron Mercer and Al Thornton used to be able to get their midrange shots off all the time, but it was such a low% shot that it wasnt worth keeping them in the NBA.

What Im talking about is the ability to create HIGH% shots. Thats a skill you dont see much of.


Alot of people are putting players like paul and nash. What exactly do they do? pound the ball into the ground to create an open shot.
Well yeah. But if you want to focus only on guys who are basically only volume scorers we can have a more isolated data sample. Ill do one for efficient PG's who create high% looks and Ill run one for Durant, Melo, Kobe, Bron.


Melo doesnt take many dribbles and kobe use to not dribble as much to create his shot.
Well they dont really have the ball handling and vision that guys like Nash and CP3 have to probe defenses constantly in variety of sets. Hell Kobe loses the ball alot just trying to gather himself for a drive to the rim and Melo, well we all saw how bad the Knicks offense was when he was put in the PnR.


Not really kobe and melo's fault they are gettin d'ed up by much better defenders and multiple defenders.
I think it is, they lack the quickness and/or ball handling to free themselves. They have to rely far more on escape dribble shots.


Nash and pauls pullups come off of screens, they really even shouldnt be in comparison to the likes of durant, melo, and kobe.

Thats what makes them better IMO. Those main scorers cant operate in those situations as well. But I get your point, you want a separate class for players who perform different jobs.

Chronz
07-28-2012, 10:37 AM
Just a quick sample:

Sounds like people dont want PnR play taken into account, purely Isolation attempts. This may hurt CP3 and Nash but thats not a problem since this is about the ability to make what is probably the hardest shot in the game


Ill do this for midrange jumpers but just to get a feel on the range of these stars (and because its alot easier), here are their numbers in Isolation 3's.


Melo shot 13/60, 21.7%
LeBron shot 21/68, 30.9%
Kobe shot 32/114, 28.1%
Durant shot 19/55, 34.5%
Westbrook shot 12/42, 28.6%
Pierce is 8/30, 26.7%

Nash gos 0/5 from these shots, but if you look at his PnR attempts he shoots 31/78 (39.7%)

CP3 is ok with taking Isolation 3's 27/76, 35.5%.

jayjay33
07-28-2012, 01:22 PM
no it's the ability to make any type of pullup not just easy shots with super amounts of space. someone in this thread nailed it earlier when he wrote kerr said miller was a better shooter than him cause he didnt have to just shoot wide open.
Exactly, the ability to make bad shots equals the inability to create open shots.

That comparison is flawed because Kerr wasnt a prolific shooter.


Or the ability not to shoot, is more likely. Player who's team depend in then to score don't have that luxury. Call me when a guys team needs him to get 30 + and he can still pick a choose and only shoot good shots.

All scores take shot when they are closely guarded or have a hand in their face. You can't be a scorer if you don't.

Chronz
07-28-2012, 01:38 PM
no it's the ability to make any type of pullup not just easy shots with super amounts of space. someone in this thread nailed it earlier when he wrote kerr said miller was a better shooter than him cause he didnt have to just shoot wide open.
Exactly, the ability to make bad shots equals the inability to create open shots.

That comparison is flawed because Kerr wasnt a prolific shooter.


Or the ability not to shoot, is more likely. Player who's team depend in then to score don't have that luxury. Call me when a guys team needs him to get 30 + and he can still pick a choose and only shoot good shots.

All scores take shot when they are closely guarded or have a hand in their face. You can't be a scorer if you don't.
Ability not to shoot? Can you explain that?

Your assuming thats that being a scorer is more valuable or harder than being the kind who creates high quality looks. Both teams depend on their players to fill their jobs. Call me when those scorers can do so effectively. Actually Durant already does, notice how hes the one guy people aren't really listing.

I would take it as a badge of honor as a scorer that people dont think I rely heavily on low% shots.

jayjay33
07-28-2012, 01:52 PM
well, that's interesting, to me it doesn't mean the inability to create their own shot.
Where did I say that? Why are they settling for low% shots is the question.

Im not talking about creating just any shot, lots of players can create shots, like Ron Mercer and Al Thornton used to be able to get their midrange shots off all the time, but it was such a low% shot that it wasnt worth keeping them in the NBA.

What Im talking about is the ability to create HIGH% shots. Thats a skill you dont see much of.


Alot of people are putting players like paul and nash. What exactly do they do? pound the ball into the ground to create an open shot.
Well yeah. But if you want to focus only on guys who are basically only volume scorers we can have a more isolated data sample. Ill do one for efficient PG's who create high% looks and Ill run one for Durant, Melo, Kobe, Bron.


Melo doesnt take many dribbles and kobe use to not dribble as much to create his shot.
Well they dont really have the ball handling and vision that guys like Nash and CP3 have to probe defenses constantly in variety of sets. Hell Kobe loses the ball alot just trying to gather himself for a drive to the rim and Melo, well we all saw how bad the Knicks offense was when he was put in the PnR.


Not really kobe and melo's fault they are gettin d'ed up by much better defenders and multiple defenders.
I think it is, they lack the quickness and/or ball handling to free themselves. They have to rely far more on escape dribble shots.


Nash and pauls pullups come off of screens, they really even shouldnt be in comparison to the likes of durant, melo, and kobe.

Thats what makes them better IMO. Those main scorers cant operate in those situations as well. But I get your point, you want a separate class for players who perform different jobs.

Have you ever seen Kobe run PnR with gasol? You only look the situations that advantageous to a pg. look all of them. An decide who has the best combination of shooting ability. That's the best.

For instant I'm fine with Kobe's ability to run PnR to get an open jump shot. I am not fine with Nash's ability to go iso and try to make a Jump shot.

They aren't better, they are just more limited in what they are capable of doing. Which is why the contested shot maker....ie kobe, wade, pierce billups....etc are the champions.

Inability to make contested shots does not mean you have a better jump shot.

But to be honest I don't even know why we are talking about this. I really think we are getting of into something else. I thought the op was talking about the actual jump shot itself.

I can have a far superior jump shot to the next guy but i am slow as hell and he is quick as a cat. So guys are all over me and they play 5 ft off of him. But that doesn't mean he has a better jump shot. It just means he's wide open. Imo that's not the same thing as actually having a better shot.

alexander_37
07-28-2012, 02:02 PM
Durant Nash Paul.

jayjay33
07-28-2012, 02:06 PM
no it's the ability to make any type of pullup not just easy shots with super amounts of space. someone in this thread nailed it earlier when he wrote kerr said miller was a better shooter than him cause he didnt have to just shoot wide open.
Exactly, the ability to make bad shots equals the inability to create open shots.

That comparison is flawed because Kerr wasnt a prolific shooter.


Or the ability not to shoot, is more likely. Player who's team depend in then to score don't have that luxury. Call me when a guys team needs him to get 30 + and he can still pick a choose and only shoot good shots.

All scores take shot when they are closely guarded or have a hand in their face. You can't be a scorer if you don't.
Ability not to shoot? Can you explain that?

Your assuming thats that being a scorer is more valuable or harder than being the kind who creates high quality looks. Both teams depend on their players to fill their jobs. Call me when those scorers can do so effectively. Actually Durant already does, notice how hes the one guy people aren't really listing.

I would take it as a badge of honor as a scorer that people dont think I rely heavily on low% shots.


1.I was just being silly. A joking way of saying that its not that they can create more open shots, its that they dont shoot if they are not open. That's two different things.

2. It is harder, If Kobe so chooses he can create high quality shots for him self and others. Run PnR, come of screens...etc. he has the ability to do that if he wants. But Nash can't choose to go one on one and force the issue.

I agree about Durant, but that's cause he is always open, even when he is guarded. First rule of basketball you can't teach height.

N3TS
07-28-2012, 02:15 PM
KD or Melo, but I'll give the nod to Melo.

Chronz
07-28-2012, 02:16 PM
no it's the ability to make any type of pullup not just easy shots with super amounts of space. someone in this thread nailed it earlier when he wrote kerr said miller was a better shooter than him cause he didnt have to just shoot wide open.
Exactly, the ability to make bad shots equals the inability to create open shots.

That comparison is flawed because Kerr wasnt a prolific shooter.


Or the ability not to shoot, is more likely. Player who's team depend in then to score don't have that luxury. Call me when a guys team needs him to get 30 + and he can still pick a choose and only shoot good shots.

All scores take shot when they are closely guarded or have a hand in their face. You can't be a scorer if you don't.
Ability not to shoot? Can you explain that?

Your assuming thats that being a scorer is more valuable or harder than being the kind who creates high quality looks. Both teams depend on their players to fill their jobs. Call me when those scorers can do so effectively. Actually Durant already does, notice how hes the one guy people aren't really listing.

I would take it as a badge of honor as a scorer that people dont think I rely heavily on low% shots.


1.I was just being silly. A joking way of saying that its not that they can create more open shots, its that they dont shoot if they are not open. That's two different things.

2. It is harder, If Kobe so chooses he can create high quality shots for him self and others. Run PnR, come of screens...etc. he has the ability to do that if he wants. But Nash can't choose to go one on one and force the issue.

I agree about Durant, but that's cause he is always open, even when he is guarded. First rule of basketball you can't teach height.
I don't know what your basing this opinion of kobe on. Hes far too turnover prone and slightly inefficient in that role. Have you seen his pick and roll efficiency over the years?

4 POINT PLAY LJ
07-28-2012, 02:19 PM
No actually the first rule of basketball is get low. lol

ryang
07-28-2012, 02:21 PM
Durant or mello.. flip a coin

Chronz
07-28-2012, 02:33 PM
Have you ever seen Kobe run PnR with gasol?
Yes, hes significantly less effective at it than the guys I'm thinking about.


You only look the situations that advantageous to a pg. look all of them. An decide who has the best combination of shooting ability. That's the best.
I thought I was.


For instant I'm fine with Kobe's ability to run PnR to get an open jump shot. I am not fine with Nash's ability to go iso and try to make a Jump shot.
But what if someone is so dominant at one that even when you combine the 2 aspects you have mentioned hes still less effective?



They aren't better, they are just more limited in what they are capable of doing. Which is why the contested shot maker....ie kobe, wade, pierce billups....etc are the champions.
We are talking about a certain kind of shot making. Winning and losing is a product of alot more than perimeter shooting. Please don't undermine the point your trying to make by correlating chips to such a simple standard.



Inability to make contested shots does not mean you have a better jump shot.
Of course, its the ability to create open ones that does. If you have to rely on such a low% shot then thats a failed possession for the team.

But if by pullups you guys mean simply going iso and taking any shot you choose to take then refer to my other post. You can see just how ineffective Melo is from that distance.



But to be honest I don't even know why we are talking about this. I really think we are getting of into something else. I thought the op was talking about the actual jump shot itself.
Pullup jumpers can be created in a variety of ways. It seems you guys just want to know who's the best at making contested shots rather than who can create high% looks off the bounce.



I can have a far superior jump shot to the next guy but i am slow as hell and he is quick as a cat. So guys are all over me and they play 5 ft off of him. But that doesn't mean he has a better jump shot. It just means he's wide open. Imo that's not the same thing as actually having a better shot.
I think I get what your saying. Like Kobe used to be alot better when teams respected his drive, now that they play him for the shot hes had to improve his shooting just to maintain his effectiveness.

Similar thing happened with Tmac except he relied on his elevation to rise over the top. Once he list that his jumper suffered. Hes still has a decent jumper, but the rest of his game is so diminished hes not allowed to chuck anymore

Chronz
07-28-2012, 02:35 PM
KD or Melo, but I'll give the nod to Melo.
What do you make of the fact that he shoots a lower % on iso 3s, significantly less actually.

Chronz
07-28-2012, 02:43 PM
I honestly think you should title this thread who's the best at taking contested jumpers or escape jumpers in isolation.

Because a great pullup jumper to me has to include how good they are at making perimeter shots off the bounce in a variety of sets.

Sadds The Gr8
07-28-2012, 02:47 PM
The J.E.T.

xxplayerxx23
07-28-2012, 02:48 PM
Is this based off of just last year? Id think Nash Paul,Durant would be up there kobe and melo maybe

D12 fan
07-28-2012, 02:52 PM
Monta Ellis enough said.

97NYer
07-28-2012, 02:54 PM
Melo.

JasonJohnHorn
07-28-2012, 02:55 PM
Steve Nash.

Raf609
07-28-2012, 03:14 PM
Melo and Steve Nash

jayjay33
07-28-2012, 03:36 PM
Have you ever seen Kobe run PnR with gasol?
Yes, hes significantly less effective at it than the guys I'm thinking about.


You only look the situations that advantageous to a pg. look all of them. An decide who has the best combination of shooting ability. That's the best.
I thought I was.


For instant I'm fine with Kobe's ability to run PnR to get an open jump shot. I am not fine with Nash's ability to go iso and try to make a Jump shot.
But what if someone is so dominant at one that even when you combine the 2 aspects you have mentioned hes still less effective?



They aren't better, they are just more limited in what they are capable of doing. Which is why the contested shot maker....ie kobe, wade, pierce billups....etc are the champions.
We are talking about a certain kind of shot making. Winning and losing is a product of alot more than perimeter shooting. Please don't undermine the point your trying to make by correlating chips to such a simple standard.



Inability to make contested shots does not mean you have a better jump shot.
Of course, its the ability to create open ones that does. If you have to rely on such a low% shot then thats a failed possession for the team.

But if by pullups you guys mean simply going iso and taking any shot you choose to take then refer to my other post. You can see just how ineffective Melo is from that distance.



But to be honest I don't even know why we are talking about this. I really think we are getting of into something else. I thought the op was talking about the actual jump shot itself.
Pullup jumpers can be created in a variety of ways. It seems you guys just want to know who's the best at making contested shots rather than who can create high% looks off the bounce.



I can have a far superior jump shot to the next guy but i am slow as hell and he is quick as a cat. So guys are all over me and they play 5 ft off of him. But that doesn't mean he has a better jump shot. It just means he's wide open. Imo that's not the same thing as actually having a better shot.
I think I get what your saying. Like Kobe used to be alot better when teams respected his drive, now that they play him for the shot hes had to improve his shooting just to maintain his effectiveness.

Similar thing happened with Tmac except he relied on his elevation to rise over the top. Once he list that his jumper suffered. Hes still has a decent jumper, but the rest of his game is so diminished hes not allowed to chuck anymore

But they are not less effective they ate far more effective. The guys u mention effectiveness come when you add in the playing making ie passing.
You are going of into other areas for these guy with out realizing it. U could do the same for a guy like Kobe. But we are just talking jump shooting.

For ex. 1 game just jump shots. Nash can get his any way he like kobe can get his any way he likes. Kobe will have far more effect on the fan than Nash. Hell if the other teams start trapping pick and roll that is pretty much it for Nash. So if you wanna go just on shooting jumpers he won't have more effect and if you wanna add in other things like his passing then fine add in Kobe's driving (not old Kobe). The point being efficient and effective or to different things. Jump shot for jump shot Nash will never be more effective as in have more of an effect. He will always be more efficient.

Where you are making your mistake is that you equate efficiency to effect, but not volume. Volume can have a tremendous effect. Why point in the example and I'm not sure it was a good example. Lol was that while Nash may be the more efficient jump shooter that doesn't not make him the more effective. That why I said take out everything else and just focus on jump shooting. Assuming neither is hot or cold just shooting normally Kobe shooting 27 or 28 jump shots is going to have more of an effect than Nash's 10 or 12. But if Nash starts getting
up in attempts the his efficiency will drop and he will still have less effect.
Point Being if all there doing is shooting jump shots and NOTHING else Nash wont have more effect than Kobe. And if they are doing others things he still won't have more effect.
if all there gonna do is shoot then Kobe's volume will trump Nash's efficiency ever time in terms of "effect". Which I am assuming to mean "impact".

jayjay33
07-28-2012, 03:43 PM
Have you ever seen Kobe run PnR with gasol?
Yes, hes significantly less effective at it than the guys I'm thinking about.


You only look the situations that advantageous to a pg. look all of them. An decide who has the best combination of shooting ability. That's the best.
I thought I was.


For instant I'm fine with Kobe's ability to run PnR to get an open jump shot. I am not fine with Nash's ability to go iso and try to make a Jump shot.
But what if someone is so dominant at one that even when you combine the 2 aspects you have mentioned hes still less effective?



They aren't better, they are just more limited in what they are capable of doing. Which is why the contested shot maker....ie kobe, wade, pierce billups....etc are the champions.
We are talking about a certain kind of shot making. Winning and losing is a product of alot more than perimeter shooting. Please don't undermine the point your trying to make by correlating chips to such a simple standard.



Inability to make contested shots does not mean you have a better jump shot.
Of course, its the ability to create open ones that does. If you have to rely on such a low% shot then thats a failed possession for the team.

But if by pullups you guys mean simply going iso and taking any shot you choose to take then refer to my other post. You can see just how ineffective Melo is from that distance.



But to be honest I don't even know why we are talking about this. I really think we are getting of into something else. I thought the op was talking about the actual jump shot itself.
Pullup jumpers can be created in a variety of ways. It seems you guys just want to know who's the best at making contested shots rather than who can create high% looks off the bounce.



I can have a far superior jump shot to the next guy but i am slow as hell and he is quick as a cat. So guys are all over me and they play 5 ft off of him. But that doesn't mean he has a better jump shot. It just means he's wide open. Imo that's not the same thing as actually having a better shot.
I think I get what your saying. Like Kobe used to be alot better when teams respected his drive, now that they play him for the shot hes had to improve his shooting just to maintain his effectiveness.

Similar thing happened with Tmac except he relied on his elevation to rise over the top. Once he list that his jumper suffered. Hes still has a decent jumper, but the rest of his game is so diminished hes not allowed to chuck anymore


You said "effect" I took that to mean impact. Therefore I feel there's a big enough sample size to make that statement.if effect does not mean impact then disregard.

But that being said, I know efficient, I know impact, the total amout you make would be volume. what is effect if it does not mean impact? What's being effected?

Chronz
07-28-2012, 04:48 PM
But they are not less effective they ate far more effective. The guys u mention effectiveness come when you add in the playing making ie passing.
You are going of into other areas for these guy with out realizing it. U could do the same for a guy like Kobe. But we are just talking jump shooting.
I disagree, they are more willing to take bad shots for sure, but they arent more effective. And Im mentioning other aspects of the game that help their jumpshooting.


For ex. 1 game just jump shots. Nash can get his any way he like kobe can get his any way he likes. Kobe will have far more effect on the fan than Nash. Hell if the other teams start trapping pick and roll that is pretty much it for Nash. So if you wanna go just on shooting jumpers he won't have more effect and if you wanna add in other things like his passing then fine add in Kobe's driving (not old Kobe). The point being efficient and effective or to different things. Jump shot for jump shot Nash will never be more effective as in have more of an effect. He will always be more efficient.

I dont get what your trying to say. Teams are reluctant to trap Nash because he can break free without picking up his dribble and pick you apart with his passing. Teams also hate going under his screens because of the fact that he can pick up his dribble, balance himself and hit a 3.

Like look at the fact that Kobe cant create 3's off the dribble at a higher rate of efficiency than Nash can from a PnR, even CP3 is more effective this year. And Im not really saying Nash is up there, I think CP3 has much more of an argument than Nash, maybe Nash of old but not anymore.




Where you are making your mistake is that you equate efficiency to effect, but not volume.
Not true at all, usage and efficiency go hand in hand. But just being more willing to take those shots doesnt make you more effective.

Like CP3 makes 5 less 3's in isolation than Kobe, but he takes 38 less of those attempts. Why am I giving Kobe credit for missing a shitload more of those shots? All CP3 has to do is hit 13% of his next 38 attempts to equal Kobes usage, thats a laughably low percentage regardless of usage and would be a horrible waste of possessions. Im not going to give Kobe credit for making his teams offense worse.

Chronz
07-28-2012, 04:51 PM
You said "effect" I took that to mean impact. Therefore I feel there's a big enough sample size to make that statement.if effect does not mean impact then disregard.
Sounds like the same thing to me. And in both regards its far too simplistic to correlate in such a way.

Chronz
07-28-2012, 05:03 PM
Is there really anyone who would rather take the guy who takes 38 more shots to make 5 more than his competitor from a certain playset?

jayjay33
07-28-2012, 07:25 PM
But they are not less effective they ate far more effective. The guys u mention effectiveness come when you add in the playing making ie passing.
You are going of into other areas for these guy with out realizing it. U could do the same for a guy like Kobe. But we are just talking jump shooting.
I disagree, they are more willing to take bad shots for sure, but they arent more effective. And Im mentioning other aspects of the game that help their jumpshooting.


For ex. 1 game just jump shots. Nash can get his any way he like kobe can get his any way he likes. Kobe will have far more effect on the fan than Nash. Hell if the other teams start trapping pick and roll that is pretty much it for Nash. So if you wanna go just on shooting jumpers he won't have more effect and if you wanna add in other things like his passing then fine add in Kobe's driving (not old Kobe). The point being efficient and effective or to different things. Jump shot for jump shot Nash will never be more effective as in have more of an effect. He will always be more efficient.

I dont get what your trying to say. Teams are reluctant to trap Nash because he can break free without picking up his dribble and pick you apart with his passing. Teams also hate going under his screens because of the fact that he can pick up his dribble, balance himself and hit a 3.

Like look at the fact that Kobe cant create 3's off the dribble at a higher rate of efficiency than Nash can from a PnR, even CP3 is more effective this year. And Im not really saying Nash is up there, I think CP3 has much more of an argument than Nash, maybe Nash of old but not anymore.




Where you are making your mistake is that you equate efficiency to effect, but not volume.
Not true at all, usage and efficiency go hand in hand. But just being more willing to take those shots doesnt make you more effective.

Like CP3 makes 5 less 3's in isolation than Kobe, but he takes 38 less of those attempts. Why am I giving Kobe credit for missing a shitload more of those shots? All CP3 has to do is hit 13% of his next 38 attempts to equal Kobes usage, thats a laughably low percentage regardless of usage and would be a horrible waste of possessions. Im not going to give Kobe credit for making his teams offense worse.


You did that all wrong 1. The volume of makes is far greater than you are stating, your count good vs bad. It's not, its good cause thats all they take vs good, decent, and bad which is all the other side takes. Lol
You handid caped the other guys. Lol


An your still missing your mistake because the volume we are talking about is shots made not shots took.
For....ex if you have 18 on 60% shooting jumpers and I have I have 40 points on 42% shooting Jumper. My volume trumped your efficiency. If all we are doing is shooting jumpers.

An you did it again you mention other aspects of their games only that effect their shooting. And you talk about Nash passing and what it does but we are assuming they are only shoooting jimp shots are we not? There's no passing to get assist to keep them from trapping and such. If ther is then you are being completely bias. Cause you didny say anything about Kobe driving or him passing the ball to do the same thing, or his high post face up game which a lot of those are good easy shots because the defender plays of him. Nash is not a better player do if you wanna start down that road you will lose. We are talking just shooting jumpers, not passing or driving. If you wanna add all the things that they use to set up there jumper. Fine I'll take relentless attack of the basket over passing in terms of effect.


You should go back and read your post. You keep doing a what 1 guy does best against what the other guy does the worst comparison.

An finally your example makes no sense to me. If they are both only shooting iso 3's and they both tasking the same number of shot the Paul will never equal Kobe's impact wil he? Or are you found another lopsided comparison. We're you add up good shot and iso shots for Paul and only iso shot for Kobe?

You agreed that we should look at everything jump shot. But you have been doing a good vs bad. But the problem is while Nash doesn't take bad shots Kobe takes a lot of good ones.

I'm really surprised the you would take pit effeciecny against volume but then handie cap volume by leaving of good and decent shots. You know full well they they count as both jump shots and
have effect. Your purposely creating a gap by cutting out a significant amount of there makes. ie the guy who can get 18 on 50% by picking his spots and not forcing the issue is a good player.

The guy who can get 40 on 42% by force the issue is a superstar. Cause that 40 is going to have more effect/impact everytime.

Your guys effecient shooting only has more effect if you add in their passing. But then when you add in the Kobe's of the world attacking the basket, posting and there passing as well then. Your guys less effective once again.

Know I asked you a simple question, that should end this. Kobe Nash you need one of them to carry you for and
Entire game ONLY shooting jump shots, that's all they are allowed to do, Who do you pick. Who is the best at hitting BOTH open and unopen shots.
Yor not the best when your limited by what your capable of.

So with your theory wouldnt Kobe have a better "jump shot", if he was actually a "worst" shooter, cause he would only shoot when he was open....Lol His shooting skill would increase because his shooting skill decreased?

jayjay33
07-28-2012, 07:37 PM
You said "effect" I took that to mean impact. Therefore I feel there's a big enough sample size to make that statement.if effect does not mean impact then disregard.
Sounds like the same thing to me. And in both regards its far too simplistic to correlate in such a way.

No it's really not........Your guys impact is less than the guys I'm talking about. Like it or not it is what it is. Did you ever play bball? That playing style doesn't come from being smarter or more skilled. It comes from being less physically talented. They stick to that cause their LIMITED to that. And those same limitation make it much more diffulcut to lead your team to the ship.

If you don't take contested shots then you are not leading your team to a ship. Because the only people who don't take contested shot are the ones WHO CAN'T.

Chronz
07-29-2012, 01:20 AM
You did that all wrong 1. The volume of makes is far greater than you are stating, your count good vs bad. It's not, its good cause thats all they take vs good, decent, and bad which is all the other side takes. Lol
You handid caped the other guys. Lol
I cant make out a lick of what your saying. If you dont mind telling me what your native language is, perhaps we can converse in Spanish.


An your still missing your mistake because the volume we are talking about is shots made not shots took.
For....ex if you have 18 on 60% shooting jumpers and I have I have 40 points on 42% shooting Jumper. My volume trumped your efficiency. If all we are doing is shooting jumpers.

Can you show me real numbers? Because in REALITY I dont think the volume of a Carmelo negates the Efficiency of a CP3. Hell even Kobe doesnt shoot Isolation 3's better than CP3.


An you did it again you mention other aspects of their games only that effect their shooting. And you talk about Nash passing and what it does but we are assuming they are only shoooting jimp shots are we not? There's no passing to get assist to keep them from trapping and such. If ther is then you are being completely bias. Cause you didny say anything about Kobe driving or him passing the ball to do the same thing, or his high post face up game which a lot of those are good easy shots because the defender plays of him. Nash is not a better player do if you wanna start down that road you will lose. We are talking just shooting jumpers, not passing or driving. If you wanna add all the things that they use to set up there jumper. Fine I'll take relentless attack of the basket over passing in terms of effect.

Thats because Im focusing on the end result and you were specifically pointing out subjective elements of pressure defense. I mention those aspects because it influences their shooting ability and how the defenses choose to play those players. If you know of a scientific way to rid ourselves of these factors from the equation then do tell. And I didnt mention Kobe doing whatever it is your complaining about because he probably doesnt do it better. Things like probing, PnR mastery, ballhandling/vision are clearly in a guy like CP3's arsenal far more than Kobe.


You should go back and read your post. You keep doing a what 1 guy does best against what the other guy does the worst comparison.

No Im talking about pull up jumpers and what I prefer within the context of the usage/efficiency debate. For example, I dont care if Kobe makes 5 more 3's in ISO attempts if he NEEDS a **** load more shots to make them.


An finally your example makes no sense to me. If they are both only shooting iso 3's and they both tasking the same number of shot the Paul will never equal Kobe's impact wil he? Or are you found another lopsided comparison. We're you add up good shot and iso shots for Paul and only iso shot for Kobe?

Read the post again. Kobe took a shitload more shots to make 5 more of them. I didnt parse the data in any way, these are all the shots they took from that range in Isolation situations. CP3 surpassed Kobes impact on that shot.


You agreed that we should look at everything jump shot. But you have been doing a good vs bad. But the problem is while Nash doesn't take bad shots Kobe takes a lot of good ones.

Actually my argument is that a guy like Melo takes too many bad ones to be in the conversation with a guy like CP3. Kobe is probably closer but I still take CP3.


I'm really surprised the you would take pit effeciecny against volume but then handie cap volume by leaving of good and decent shots. You know full well they they count as both jump shots and
have effect. Your purposely creating a gap by cutting out a significant amount of there makes. ie the guy who can get 18 on 50% by picking his spots and not forcing the issue is a good player.
I take the better combination of the 2. For example (and these are REAL stats), CP3 made 5 less 3's in Isolation than Kobe, but he took a significantly lower amount. Im not going to favor such a high volume of attempts with such poor efficiency. Its far better for the offense to rely on high% looks.


The guy who can get 40 on 42% by force the issue is a superstar. Cause that 40 is going to have more effect/impact everytime.

False.


Your guys effecient shooting only has more effect if you add in their passing. But then when you add in the Kobe's of the world attacking the basket, posting and there passing as well then. Your guys less effective once again.

False again. Im talking about the end result of shooting pull ups. Those external factors change the way the defense plays these shooters. Its not CP3's fault that teams dont fear Kobes vision/ballhandling to the same degree, they would rather Kobe shoot a low% shot than have the playmaker pick them apart for a high% look.



Know I asked you a simple question, that should end this. Kobe Nash you need one of them to carry you for and
Entire game ONLY shooting jump shots, that's all they are allowed to do, Who do you pick. Who is the best at hitting BOTH open and unopen shots.
Yor not the best when your limited by what your capable of.

The higher the usage the more likely Kobe will have a greater level of efficiency, sadly Im talking about the action of shooting within the confines of REAL TEAM basketball.


So with your theory wouldnt Kobe have a better "jump shot", if he was actually a "worst" shooter, cause he would only shoot when he was open....Lol His shooting skill would increase because his shooting skill decreased?
Nope, because Kobe wouldnt be as efficient as the players Im mentioning regardless of his role. Hes simply has never shown that ability and I doubt hes going to change now that hes declined. Just like CP3 wouldnt be as effective as Kobe if he were to for some reason want to chuck that much. I would gladly take CP3's efficiency over Kobes usage given the stages of their careers and the level of efficiency.

AGAIN, Kobe needs a **** load more attempts to barely make 5 more ISO 3's. Why would I want my offense to waste so many possessions?

Chronz
07-29-2012, 01:23 AM
No it's really not........Your guys impact is less than the guys I'm talking about. Like it or not it is what it is.
LOL, like it or not, Im not convinced.


Did you ever play bball? That playing style doesn't come from being smarter or more skilled. It comes from being less physically talented. They stick to that cause their LIMITED to that. And those same limitation make it much more diffulcut to lead your team to the ship.
Have you ever played in the NBA? Didnt think so. Winning and losing comes down to your efficiency in more than just jumpshooting. In fact thats not even all that matters when it comes to offense, so why would I care about your opinion? Winning a result of both your offensive and defensive efficiency. Considering we are only talking about a single aspect of offense, Im not going to believe any of this simple minded drivel.


If you don't take contested shots then you are not leading your team to a ship. Because the only people who don't take contested shot are the ones WHO CAN'T.

LMFAO

Taking low% shots is the key to winning championships, only on PSD.

IKnowHoops
07-29-2012, 01:34 AM
I would go with Durant, but the question is a little awkward. Because if the question is who has the best j, or mid range game, I would go Dirk all day without hesitation. When I think pull up Im thinking one kind of jump shot which is straight on drible and pull up out of it and shoot. I like Durant for that, but Dirk can just straight j from everywhere in any set and shoot 60% all jumpers like hes laying up.

IKnowHoops
07-29-2012, 01:40 AM
I cant make out a lick of what your saying. If you dont mind telling me what your native language is, perhaps we can converse in Spanish.[/B]


ahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha

oh my goodness:clap::laugh2:

c.c.
07-29-2012, 01:54 AM
K.d.

jayjay33
07-29-2012, 03:00 AM
No it's really not........Your guys impact is less than the guys I'm talking about. Like it or not it is what it is.
LOL, like it or not, Im not convinced.


Did you ever play bball? That playing style doesn't come from being smarter or more skilled. It comes from being less physically talented. They stick to that cause their LIMITED to that. And those same limitation make it much more diffulcut to lead your team to the ship.
Have you ever played in the NBA? Didnt think so. Winning and losing comes down to your efficiency in more than just jumpshooting. In fact thats not even all that matters when it comes to offense, so why would I care about your opinion? Winning a result of both your offensive and defensive efficiency. Considering we are only talking about a single aspect of offense, Im not going to believe any of this simple minded drivel.


If you don't take contested shots then you are not leading your team to a ship. Because the only people who don't take contested shot are the ones WHO CAN'T.

LMFAO

Taking low% shots is the key to winning championships, only on PSD.

No it's only the guys that shoot uncontested shots like nash and Chris Paul. That's why they have led there teams to so many ships unlike those guys who take contested shots.....lmao.

I won't even waste time arguing the rest cause theirs no point. You can claim PnR and probing all you want. But List the guys that only take good shots and list the guys that take contested shots. How many rings do the guys who don't take contested shots have again? That's right you guessed it. :D

Only stat geeks who never played basketball think your gonna lead a team to anything with that I only shoot when I'm open bull ****.

FACT players who take contested shot lead their teams to ships. Players who PnR and probe and "only" take good shots don't lead their teams to ****.
Game Over.........que all the bull **** excuses.

jayjay33
07-29-2012, 03:05 AM
You did that all wrong 1. The volume of makes is far greater than you are stating, your count good vs bad. It's not, its good cause thats all they take vs good, decent, and bad which is all the other side takes. Lol
You handid caped the other guys. Lol
I cant make out a lick of what your saying. If you dont mind telling me what your native language is, perhaps we can converse in Spanish.


An your still missing your mistake because the volume we are talking about is shots made not shots took.
For....ex if you have 18 on 60% shooting jumpers and I have I have 40 points on 42% shooting Jumper. My volume trumped your efficiency. If all we are doing is shooting jumpers.

Can you show me real numbers? Because in REALITY I dont think the volume of a Carmelo negates the Efficiency of a CP3. Hell even Kobe doesnt shoot Isolation 3's better than CP3.


An you did it again you mention other aspects of their games only that effect their shooting. And you talk about Nash passing and what it does but we are assuming they are only shoooting jimp shots are we not? There's no passing to get assist to keep them from trapping and such. If ther is then you are being completely bias. Cause you didny say anything about Kobe driving or him passing the ball to do the same thing, or his high post face up game which a lot of those are good easy shots because the defender plays of him. Nash is not a better player do if you wanna start down that road you will lose. We are talking just shooting jumpers, not passing or driving. If you wanna add all the things that they use to set up there jumper. Fine I'll take relentless attack of the basket over passing in terms of effect.

Thats because Im focusing on the end result and you were specifically pointing out subjective elements of pressure defense. I mention those aspects because it influences their shooting ability and how the defenses choose to play those players. If you know of a scientific way to rid ourselves of these factors from the equation then do tell. And I didnt mention Kobe doing whatever it is your complaining about because he probably doesnt do it better. Things like probing, PnR mastery, ballhandling/vision are clearly in a guy like CP3's arsenal far more than Kobe.


You should go back and read your post. You keep doing a what 1 guy does best against what the other guy does the worst comparison.

No Im talking about pull up jumpers and what I prefer within the context of the usage/efficiency debate. For example, I dont care if Kobe makes 5 more 3's in ISO attempts if he NEEDS a **** load more shots to make them.


An finally your example makes no sense to me. If they are both only shooting iso 3's and they both tasking the same number of shot the Paul will never equal Kobe's impact wil he? Or are you found another lopsided comparison. We're you add up good shot and iso shots for Paul and only iso shot for Kobe?

Read the post again. Kobe took a shitload more shots to make 5 more of them. I didnt parse the data in any way, these are all the shots they took from that range in Isolation situations. CP3 surpassed Kobes impact on that shot.


You agreed that we should look at everything jump shot. But you have been doing a good vs bad. But the problem is while Nash doesn't take bad shots Kobe takes a lot of good ones.

Actually my argument is that a guy like Melo takes too many bad ones to be in the conversation with a guy like CP3. Kobe is probably closer but I still take CP3.


I'm really surprised the you would take pit effeciecny against volume but then handie cap volume by leaving of good and decent shots. You know full well they they count as both jump shots and
have effect. Your purposely creating a gap by cutting out a significant amount of there makes. ie the guy who can get 18 on 50% by picking his spots and not forcing the issue is a good player.
I take the better combination of the 2. For example (and these are REAL stats), CP3 made 5 less 3's in Isolation than Kobe, but he took a significantly lower amount. Im not going to favor such a high volume of attempts with such poor efficiency. Its far better for the offense to rely on high% looks.


The guy who can get 40 on 42% by force the issue is a superstar. Cause that 40 is going to have more effect/impact everytime.

False.


Your guys effecient shooting only has more effect if you add in their passing. But then when you add in the Kobe's of the world attacking the basket, posting and there passing as well then. Your guys less effective once again.

False again. Im talking about the end result of shooting pull ups. Those external factors change the way the defense plays these shooters. Its not CP3's fault that teams dont fear Kobes vision/ballhandling to the same degree, they would rather Kobe shoot a low% shot than have the playmaker pick them apart for a high% look.



Know I asked you a simple question, that should end this. Kobe Nash you need one of them to carry you for and
Entire game ONLY shooting jump shots, that's all they are allowed to do, Who do you pick. Who is the best at hitting BOTH open and unopen shots.
Yor not the best when your limited by what your capable of.

The higher the usage the more likely Kobe will have a greater level of efficiency, sadly Im talking about the action of shooting within the confines of REAL TEAM basketball.


So with your theory wouldnt Kobe have a better "jump shot", if he was actually a "worst" shooter, cause he would only shoot when he was open....Lol His shooting skill would increase because his shooting skill decreased?
Nope, because Kobe wouldnt be as efficient as the players Im mentioning regardless of his role. Hes simply has never shown that ability and I doubt hes going to change now that hes declined. Just like CP3 wouldnt be as effective as Kobe if he were to for some reason want to chuck that much. I would gladly take CP3's efficiency over Kobes usage given the stages of their careers and the level of efficiency.

AGAIN, Kobe needs a **** load more attempts to barely make 5 more ISO 3's. Why would I want my offense to waste so many possessions?

Yeah I wrote it and I don't understand it either. I'm trying to do this on my phone, an I'm to lazy to go back and read over what I typed, I would rather be insulted. Then put fourth that much effort. But It is what it is....... So feel free to make all the comments you like.

tmacsc2
07-29-2012, 03:13 AM
Well seeing as tmac is still in the league his pull up j is sweet! But im going with durant like everyone else

STL Don
07-29-2012, 03:22 AM
Kobe and Durant are at the top. Two of the great pure scorers in the game.
Guys like Pierce, TMac, Iverson,Nash, Vince Carter have been among the most lethal pull up jump shooter and scorers in the game.
Now guys like Westbrook, DRose, Durant himself have emerged onto the scene..

jason6692
07-29-2012, 04:15 AM
idk about best but how about jason terry for consideration
being a mavs fan and watching mavs game you would often see JET pull up fro a jumper on fast breaks

Ebbs
07-29-2012, 04:19 AM
I'm thinking Durant unless we consider Dirks fade away a pull up

Losoway
07-29-2012, 04:31 AM
Melo

Chronz
07-29-2012, 06:20 AM
No it's only the guys that shoot uncontested shots like nash and Chris Paul. That's why they have led there teams to so many ships unlike those guys who take contested shots.....lmao.

I won't even waste time arguing the rest cause theirs no point. You can claim PnR and probing all you want. But List the guys that only take good shots and list the guys that take contested shots. How many rings do the guys who don't take contested shots have again? That's right you guessed it. :D

Only stat geeks who never played basketball think your gonna lead a team to anything with that I only shoot when I'm open bull ****.

FACT players who take contested shot lead their teams to ships. Players who PnR and probe and "only" take good shots don't lead their teams to ****.
Game Over.........que all the bull **** excuses.
LOL, never thought I'd see the "look at the rings" comment with regards to just one aspect of shooting. I'm glad you have boiled down winning to this simple concept. Completely undermines everything you have tried to argue.

FACT: Kobe and Melo didn't win a title last year.

Fact: Kobe NEEDED alot more shots to make 5 more 3s than CP3. Why would I want that? Cuz he won rings a few years ago?

Should Shaq/Duncan/Bron/Magic/Isiah/Bird/Moses/Walton/Wilt apologize for focusing on high% shots on route to titles?

Face it bro, you know you have no argument when all you have to say is, but look at my rings. Players win rings in a multitude of fashions. And its not just about shooting. Its about offense as a whole, defense as a whole, support and abit of luck. Lol game over, preemptive responses? Man you just reek of desperation at this point.

Chronz
07-29-2012, 06:25 AM
Yeah I wrote it and I don't understand it either. I'm trying to do this on my phone, an I'm to lazy to go back and read over what I typed, I would rather be insulted. Then put fourth that much effort. But It is what it is....... So feel free to make all the comments you like.
Ive been doing this on my phone too. And I didn't insult you, I have nothing against ESL speakers, but when things get incomprehensible I look for an alternative form of communication. Do you have swype? It makes this alot easier.