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View Full Version : Nate Robinson Escapes Unscathed as Five People Are Shot at Harlem Basketball Court



xabial
07-26-2012, 05:25 PM
Five people were shot on a Harlem basketball court Wednesday night during an annual basketball tournament, officials and witnesses said.

Gunfire erupted around 10 p.m. at the Holcombe Rucker Park court on Frederick Douglass Boulevard near W. 155th St. after a dispute during a game for the Entertainers Basketball Classic, witnesses said.

"They started arguing, about a bad call or something like that," said Rodney Harris, 47. "The guy was standing no more than five feet away from me. He pulled a gun out of his pocket and shot once. He then shot one more time. Everyone started running."

“He was real close to me,” Harris said. “I thought I got shot."

Nate Robinson, a former point guard for the Knicks, was at the game but escaped unscathed, witnesses said.

Source- NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nate-robinson-escapes-unscathed-people-shot-rucker-park-basketball-court-harlem-article-1.1122132)

Good For Him, Glad He's Safe.. Hopefully the 5 People that got shot are OK. Why would he, a High-profile NBA Player go to an Annual Harlem basketball game when Harlem isn't exactly known as one of the "safest" Places in the Planet...? I think its stupid.. If I was a NBA Player I would Never go To Harlem...

Can't Beleive Someone would Kill/Shoot People Arguing About a Bad Call by a Ref. :facepalm:

There's Some Crazy People Out There.

micks4real
07-26-2012, 05:29 PM
speaking of N8... whats his contract worth these days?

JWO35
07-26-2012, 05:31 PM
People still shoot up basketball courts?

xabial
07-26-2012, 05:33 PM
speaking of N8... whats his contract worth these days?

Nate Is Only Only 5'9 But Has the Ability To Single Hand-idly Change the Outcome Of A Game When He's On.. Very Inconsistent At Times... Since He's 5'9, His Defense Will always Be An Issue. (Not His Fault, But He Tries His Hardest)

At This Point Of His Career He's a Bench Player/Depth Signing. Best Case Scnereo Is if He's Signed To Be a 6th Man of a Team (Jamal Crawford Role)..But I believe thats Very Unlikely.

I would honestly Be Surprised If He Gets More than The Veterans Minimum of $1.2M.

fresh prince
07-26-2012, 06:16 PM
BIG L Rest In Peace!!

Harlem is crazy.

MetroMan
07-26-2012, 06:23 PM
BIG L Rest In Peace!!

Harlem is crazy.

Tupac too was born in Harlem . R.I.P

IndyRealist
07-26-2012, 06:24 PM
It's Rucker park, doesn't everyone play there at one time?

GiantsSwaGG
07-26-2012, 06:24 PM
We don't accept flopping in NY

fadedmario
07-26-2012, 06:28 PM
If this was in Detroit - NY fans would bash our city - so here it goes -

Not surprising at all it happened in NY..

jk

nycsports2
07-26-2012, 06:28 PM
We don't accept flopping in NY

this

jaizari06
07-26-2012, 06:28 PM
^^^he was at a basketball game, are these guys not supposed to do anything? Harlem is not the best place on earth but it's not like he was at a club. It's an annual summer tournament that MANY nba players go to and play in as well. Kobe was there a few years back, lit everyone up and no issues.. Durante artist a lot have played in the tournament... I guess maybe he should've been somewhere "less violent" like let's say colorado?? Smh come on, things happen ANYWHERE... Don't blame it on Harlem

jaizari06
07-26-2012, 06:30 PM
*durant, artest*

BigBlueCrew
07-26-2012, 06:35 PM
Source- NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nate-robinson-escapes-unscathed-people-shot-rucker-park-basketball-court-harlem-article-1.1122132)

Good For Him, Glad He's Safe.. Hopefully the 5 People that got shot are OK. Why would he, a High-profile NBA Player go to an Annual Harlem basketball game when Harlem isn't exactly known as one of the "safest" Places in the Planet...? I think its stupid.. If I was a NBA Player I would Never go To Harlem...

Can't Beleive Someone would Kill/Shoot People Arguing About a Bad Call by a Ref. :facepalm:

There's Some Crazy People Out There.

Because its Rucker basketball court, have you never heard of it?

Thegame187
07-26-2012, 06:35 PM
NY needs to stop teasing white guys who can't jump

jiggin
07-26-2012, 06:47 PM
And we wonder why groups get stereotyped...:facepalm:

Six-8-TheWizard
07-26-2012, 06:48 PM
Wow thats nuts. Glad hes ok

Lloyd Christmas
07-26-2012, 06:51 PM
He's not tall enough to get hit.

asandhu23
07-26-2012, 06:55 PM
He's not tall enough to get hit.

:laugh2:

AddiX
07-26-2012, 06:59 PM
I hate to make a joke out of this, but I bet Nate did something funny when the shots went off. That's just how Nate do.

RLundi
07-26-2012, 06:59 PM
Nate didn't even have to duck. He simply evaded the gunfire by walking away calmly.

PleaseBeNice
07-26-2012, 07:03 PM
This happened when I was playing ball in North Phoenix. Some scary stuff when people get butt hurt over a call or non call. Or just being beat pisses them off.

Aust
07-26-2012, 07:08 PM
Some people are just morally bankrupt

GiantsSwaGG
07-26-2012, 07:14 PM
Some people are just morally bankrupt

Antonie Walker?

Gritz
07-26-2012, 07:15 PM
People still shoot up basketball courts?

You obviously don't play

BcEuAbRsS
07-26-2012, 07:34 PM
Or he doesn't play with morons?

justjames
07-26-2012, 07:35 PM
Kobe has played at Rucker

TO Rapz
07-26-2012, 07:53 PM
Kobe has played at Rucker

A lot of people have. Durant has, Kobe has etc.

JWO35
07-26-2012, 07:55 PM
You obviously don't play

I guess its the norm in NY :shrug:

I live in Detroit of all places, I haven't heard someone shooting up a court in a long time...I guess not getting shot at insinuates I don't play basketball:rolleyes:

STA_PLAR
07-26-2012, 07:59 PM
Sometimes its just being at the wrong place at the wrong time. It's not the norm in NY though I play in all the five boroughs. Its ball and its competitive but it should never go past trash talking.

Bishnoff
07-26-2012, 08:08 PM
It's Rucker park, doesn't everyone play there at one time?

This. Some of the greatest NBA players have played at Rucker.

mRc08
07-26-2012, 08:15 PM
This is too bad. Rucker park is a great as it serves as a place NBA players can show how much better they truely are than "street ballers". Unfortunately, events like this will probably cost some of our current stars to go their and display their talents. Maybe they should heighten security there?

StinkEye
07-26-2012, 08:17 PM
dats how we duz mang

knickfan447
07-26-2012, 08:31 PM
I guess its the norm in NY :shrug:

I live in Detroit of all places, I haven't heard someone shooting up a court in a long time...I guess not getting shot at insinuates I don't play basketball:rolleyes:

Sadly it is they shot a 4 year old in the head at a tournament two days before this.

Knick4Knack
07-26-2012, 08:38 PM
Source- NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nate-robinson-escapes-unscathed-people-shot-rucker-park-basketball-court-harlem-article-1.1122132)

Good For Him, Glad He's Safe.. Hopefully the 5 People that got shot are OK. Why would he, a High-profile NBA Player go to an Annual Harlem basketball game when Harlem isn't exactly known as one of the "safest" Places in the Planet...? I think its stupid.. If I was a NBA Player I would Never go To Harlem...

Can't Beleive Someone would Kill/Shoot People Arguing About a Bad Call by a Ref. :facepalm:

There's Some Crazy People Out There.

O.K. Some strange and disturbing comments...

Let me start off by saying that idiots like this one at Rucker exist anywhere and everywhere, take Aurora, Colorodo for example. You think the streets of Harlem are empty from people fearing for their very lives? Round after round fired off non-stop? Think again.

Know whose office resides at 55 west 125th street? Bill Clinton: Former United States President. Perhaps you should call him and tell him he made a mistake- that his safety is in serious doubt.

I'm surprised to hear you make these statements because Rucker park represents a high held tradition and lifesblood to American basketball. When NBA players go there, they go to pay homage. Stars such as Kobe and Durant recognize this, and generally, their visits go without incident. This shooting is an aberration. I wonder how the gentleman in your profile picture would feel about such a statement. Correction: I know how he feels. He recognizes the importance of such a place as Rucker.

Harlem has its dangers, but in these troubling times, what place doesn't?

tredigs
07-26-2012, 08:51 PM
O.K. Some strange and disturbing comments...

Let me start off by saying that idiots like this one at Rucker exist anywhere and everywhere, take Aurora, Colorodo for example. You think the streets of Harlem are empty from people fearing for their very lives? Round after round fired off non-stop? Think again.

Know whose office resides at 55 west 125th street? Bill Clinton: Former United States President. Perhaps you should call him and tell him he made a mistake- that his safety is in serious doubt.

I'm surprised to hear you make these statements because Rucker park represents a high held tradition and lifesblood to American basketball. When NBA players go there, they go to pay homage. Stars such as Kobe and Durant recognize this, and generally, their visits go without incident. This shooting is an aberration. I wonder how the gentleman in your profile picture would feel about such a statement. Correction: I know how he feels. He recognizes the importance of such a place as Rucker.

Harlem has its dangers, but in these troubling times, what place doesn't?

As is always the case, most of non inner city America is the answer to that question.

Shooting's in the city over inane/stupid **** are the norm (wouldn't make most papers if Nate wasn't there... and even still, won't make most non-sport sections), but when they happen in a movie theater in Colorado in the suburbs? That's international news. That's some crazy/rare stuff. And that's the truth.

Granted these two incidents are on a different scale, but that level of violence can happen over the course of a week in any major inner city.

naps
07-26-2012, 09:02 PM
Damn!


Harlem = Italian mafia capital in USA. Don't **** around that place.

rwynyc
07-26-2012, 11:36 PM
There are not many shooting in harlem anymore.

East NY and South Bronx for sure but every where else is pretty safe

Becks2307
07-26-2012, 11:39 PM
Lol this tournament has held the likes of Lebron kobe and Durant last year, it has great security. some random guy on the street outside of the park shot the guns, wtf are they to do?

i work for the Daily news we are covering the story. This was a freak incident

Knick4Knack
07-26-2012, 11:42 PM
As is always the case, most of non inner city America is the answer to that question.

Shooting's in the city over inane/stupid **** are the norm (wouldn't make most papers if Nate wasn't there... and even still, won't make most non-sport sections), but when they happen in a movie theater in Colorado in the suburbs? That's international news. That's some crazy/rare stuff. And that's the truth.

Granted these two incidents are on a different scale, but that level of violence can happen over the course of a week in any major inner city.

What!!!???? Suburbia doesn't have crime and violence? I lived in Georgia for over 15 years, was a bartender in the Virginia Highlands. Lawyers, politicians, well-to-do businessmen and their fraternity pledged children. Once they got enough liquor in them the ugly came out. Fights. Brawls. Public sex. What-have-you. However, nobody was ever going to jail because of who they were. What that situation taught me is no matter where you live, there is the same danger of violence lurking somewhere. Its the factors that are different. Its frequency is different, and ultimately, its media coverage is different.

There is plenty of violence in suburbia. As prevalent as in the inner city? Oh, of course not, it's not even close- we are talking about a grand difference in population and, in many cases, financial status, which can be a factor in crime.

My point, violence over inane crap can happen anywhere. Even in suburbia.

knicksfan42
07-26-2012, 11:47 PM
If this was in Detroit - NY fans would bash our city - so here it goes -

Not surprising at all it happened in NY..

jk



Not surprised it happened in Harlem. All of Detroit is like a giant Harlem.

MrfadeawayJB
07-26-2012, 11:49 PM
and this is why robinson is still not signed...

Knick4Knack
07-26-2012, 11:53 PM
and this is why robinson is still not signed...

Why, because he got shot at?

elizur
07-27-2012, 12:02 AM
And we wonder why groups get stereotyped...:facepalm:

I am pretty sure a white dude just shot a bunch of people because of a comic book character. Hate/Anger comes in all colors.

elizur
07-27-2012, 12:04 AM
You obviously don't play

What? so, now because he has never gotten shot at he does not play bball?

elizur
07-27-2012, 12:06 AM
As is always the case, most of non inner city America is the answer to that question.

Shooting's in the city over inane/stupid **** are the norm (wouldn't make most papers if Nate wasn't there... and even still, won't make most non-sport sections), but when they happen in a movie theater in Colorado in the suburbs? That's international news. That's some crazy/rare stuff. And that's the truth.

Granted these two incidents are on a different scale, but that level of violence can happen over the course of a week in any major inner city.

Violence happens in certain suburbs at a rate that is near as high. (meaning number vs. population)

knicksfan42
07-27-2012, 12:13 AM
Violence happens in certain suburbs at a rate that is near as high. (meaning number vs. population)

Violent crime? In which suburb is it anywhere near as high as it is in a city like Detroit. Almost all crime statistics account for population.

TheNumber37
07-27-2012, 12:24 AM
I grew up in NYC, not surprised at all. Nate's lucky he's not 6'6.

MrfadeawayJB
07-27-2012, 12:42 AM
Why, because he got shot at?

No because he puts himself in these situations when he should be in the gym working out instead of hanging out with low-lifes on the streets

WickedBadMan
07-27-2012, 01:02 AM
Can't imagine having the mentality which promoted pulling out and shooting a gun at people over a basketball game.

Knick4Knack
07-27-2012, 01:42 AM
No because he puts himself in these situations when he should be in the gym working out instead of hanging out with low-lifes on the streets

So by that logic, Kobe, Kevin Durant and a whole lot of other NBA players who have played in Rucker tournaments should be unemployed.

What low-lifes are you referring to exactly? Are you saying that he knew the person who shot the gun? Are you saying that you know Nate Robinson's friends?

Because if you are talking about him playing at Rucker Park in General, you're wrong.

Rucker Park is the streets? No, sir. It is where people go to play and watch basketball. It is a good place where people enjoy themselves and there is seldom incident.

Let's Review:

Kareem Abdul Jabaar
Earl "The Pearl" Monroe
Nate 'Tiny' Archibald
Vince Carter
Wilt Chamberlain
"Dr. J" Julius Erving
Connie Hawkins
Jamal Mashburn
Joakim Noah
Chris Mullin
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant

If you'll notice, there are quite a few Hall of Famers on that list.

These gentlemen all played Rucker Park. It is a great tradition. So, unless you know Nate Robinson and someone that can be classified as a "low-life" that he was hanging out with, sorry, but your comment is baseless.

KniCks4LiFe
07-27-2012, 01:47 AM
I guess its the norm in NY :shrug:



it really is the norm, this isn't the first time there's a shooting at Rucker. But it's been awhile it got to news circuits.

Losoway
07-27-2012, 04:52 AM
the dude that missed everyone shooting with the gun had a better shot then nate robinson

tredigs
07-27-2012, 04:57 AM
What!!!???? Suburbia doesn't have crime and violence? I lived in Georgia for over 15 years, was a bartender in the Virginia Highlands. Lawyers, politicians, well-to-do businessmen and their fraternity pledged children. Once they got enough liquor in them the ugly came out. Fights. Brawls. Public sex. What-have-you. However, nobody was ever going to jail because of who they were. What that situation taught me is no matter where you live, there is the same danger of violence lurking somewhere. Its the factors that are different. Its frequency is different, and ultimately, its media coverage is different.

There is plenty of violence in suburbia. As prevalent as in the inner city? Oh, of course not, it's not even close- we are talking about a grand difference in population and, in many cases, financial status, which can be a factor in crime.

My point, violence over inane crap can happen anywhere. Even in suburbia.

You're comparing "public sex" and "fights" to murder.

Am I missing something?

fresh prince
07-27-2012, 05:07 AM
What!!!???? Suburbia doesn't have crime and violence? I lived in Georgia for over 15 years, was a bartender in the Virginia Highlands. Lawyers, politicians, well-to-do businessmen and their fraternity pledged children. Once they got enough liquor in them the ugly came out. Fights. Brawls. Public sex. What-have-you. However, nobody was ever going to jail because of who they were. What that situation taught me is no matter where you live, there is the same danger of violence lurking somewhere. Its the factors that are different. Its frequency is different, and ultimately, its media coverage is different.

There is plenty of violence in suburbia. As prevalent as in the inner city? Oh, of course not, it's not even close- we are talking about a grand difference in population and, in many cases, financial status, which can be a factor in crime.

My point, violence over inane crap can happen anywhere. Even in suburbia.

:clap:

Well played sir

tredigs
07-27-2012, 05:09 AM
:clap:

Well played sir

You can take a go at my response too then.

You kids are delusional if you're comparing drunken shenanigans to cold blooded murder.

LongIslandIcedZ
07-27-2012, 07:56 AM
NY is actually one of the safest large city, they've really done a lot of good work to make it so.

MagicHero3
07-27-2012, 09:08 AM
NY is actually one of the safest large city, they've really done a lot of good work to make it so.

http://www.spotcrime.com/ny/new%20york

not so much

knicksfan42
07-27-2012, 09:22 AM
http://www.spotcrime.com/ny/new%20york

not so much

It is I don't know wtf that website is, but NYC has been one of the safest big cities in the country for years.



But how to explain New York City’s relatively low violent-crime rate of 582 per 100,000, 27th-lowest among U.S. cities over 250,000 in population? Criminal justice professor Mike Maxfield, of John Jay College in New York City, points out that it has most of the resources that are key to urban safety: “wealth, effective policing and other guardianship, public spaces that are heavily used by a broad cross-section of people, institutions that attract people—parks, museums, shopping, entertainment—and effective governance, generally.”

In Pictures: America’s Safest Cities

But the Big Apple is still a mixed bag. “It’s also incredibly diverse with a great deal of inequality. That means that though New York is statistically safe as a city, safety, like wealth, is unevenly distributed,” Maxfield adds. “All of New York is better governed and better policed than 20 years ago and violence is lower everywhere. But it’s much lower in some places than in others.”


http://www.forbes.com/sites/bethgreenfield/2011/12/15/americas-safest-cities/2/



I used to have the actual chart, but its harder to find now. Anyways New York has been regarded as one of the safest big cities for a while now.

knicksfan42
07-27-2012, 09:30 AM
This isn't to say the city doesn't have places that are dangerous. It definitely does, but it also has a lot of wealthy areas and a ton of middle class neighborhoods.

LongIslandIcedZ
07-27-2012, 10:21 AM
http://www.spotcrime.com/ny/new%20york

not so much

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-13/new-york-city-remains-safest-big-u-s-city-as-crime-drops-5-mayor-says.html

Very much

Obviosuly, if your on the subway at 4:00 AM your asking for a problem, but in general it is a very safe large city.

ATX
07-27-2012, 10:24 AM
Some people are just morally bankrupt

This

joeystats
07-27-2012, 12:03 PM
Streets is ruff

knicksfan42
07-27-2012, 12:11 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-13/new-york-city-remains-safest-big-u-s-city-as-crime-drops-5-mayor-says.html

Very much

Obviosuly, if your on the subway at 4:00 AM your asking for a problem, but in general it is a very safe large city.


I've actually taken the subway at 4 in the morning, its completely safe depending on where you're going and which line you're taking.

Knick4Knack
07-27-2012, 01:11 PM
You're comparing "public sex" and "fights" to murder.

Am I missing something?



My original statement was that "every place has it's dangers". Your reply was "not in non inner city areas" which I found perplexing.

Using public sex and fights as example demonstrates that, there too, is a breakdown in law. Where there is a breakdown in law, there is usually danger.

Now, if you want to discuss frequency of fatal crime, that is something else entirely. I would agree with you there, because factors such as population size, economy and social structure then come into play. Of course, there would be more crime in the inner city, given those factors.

However, magnitude of crime is no different. These types of senseless acts can happen anywhere. Murder takes place in suburbia. Rape takes place in suburbia. It may not happen in the same fashion as someone walking onto a court and opening fire, but it happens.

I had a regular who described a situation at a local bar where a customer beside him kept touching him on the neck/shoulder. He pushed the guy away, and when he wouldn't stop, he changed seats.

A few minutes later, this same guy walked behind the very next girl seated on that bar and slit her throat. Cold blooded murder. The guy was most likely a psychopath, but yet and still, the danger was there.

One of the most heinous acts we witnessed as a community was in the Virginia Highlands, on the strip of bars. Guy got his head bashed into a fire hydrant till it almost turned to puree. Blood everywhere, and the kids wouldn't stop. Did the guy die? No, but he is most likely brain damaged for life.

Was the act any less cold blooded? No.

I stand by my statement: In these troubled times, the threat to ones safety exists everywhere, even in suburbia. Don't let the picket fences fool you, because spouses do beat and kill each other behind closed doors.

And please, do not disrespect me by calling me "kid". You have no idea how old I am.

fresh prince
07-27-2012, 01:27 PM
You can take a go at my response too then.

You kids are delusional if you're comparing drunken shenanigans to cold blooded murder.

No one ever said that I mean Who would make that comparison?

I think Knack's point was that crime is committed throughout our society. What is different is the types of crimes that are committed. What you call "drunken shenanigans" can lead to more serious offenses I.E vehicular man slaughter, spousal abuse etc.

Crimes that are not as severe as cold blooded murder but life altering nonetheless.

Crime exist everywhere. The media coverage and socio -economic backgrounds of said criminals usually determines the type of crime committed and the attention it gets.

Don't be fooled otherwise.

Knick4Knack
07-27-2012, 01:30 PM
No one ever said that I mean Who would make that comparison?

I think Knack's point was that crime is committed throughout our society. What is different is the types of crimes that are committed. What you call "drunken shenanigans" can lead to more serious offenses I.E vehicular man slaughter, spousal abuse etc.

Crimes that are not as severe as cold blooded murder but life altering nonetheless.

Crime exist everywhere. The media coverage and socio -economic backgrounds of said criminals usually determines the type of crime committed and the attention it gets.

Don't be fooled otherwise.

Amen!

tredigs
07-27-2012, 01:56 PM
No one ever said that I mean Who would make that comparison?

I think Knack's point was that crime is committed throughout our society. What is different is the types of crimes that are committed. What you call "drunken shenanigans" can lead to more serious offenses I.E vehicular man slaughter, spousal abuse etc.

Crimes that are not as severe as cold blooded murder but life altering nonetheless.

Crime exist everywhere. The media coverage and socio -economic backgrounds of said criminals usually determines the type of crime committed and the attention it gets.

Don't be fooled otherwise.

But, the media coverage is a major determining factor in what the severity of a crime is in the city? Uhhh... you sure you don't want to re-think that one? Because it makes no sense... a 2nd degree murder is still a 2nd degree murder whether or not NBC broadcasts it. I'm fully aware of media manipulation and how absurd it is in the states on a number of issues, but I'm not following you here.

There's many factors that go into it, but if I had to choose one it would be the breakdown of the family (see: baby daddies who run scared rather than parent) as the main cause of the violent culture you see in the streets. From there it's a snowball effect to lack of an education, openness to gang influence (someone's gotta take care of them), road to drugs, etc. As proven in certain other parts of the world, socio-economics are secondary to having a tight knit family.

I'm not going to pretend like it's perfect, but even the poorest of the poor (we'll exclude full on homeless) have govt. subsidized housing, govt. subsidized groceries and govt. subsidized child care and govt. subsidized health care. I could go on to say that this is part of a larger socio-economic problem in our culture that ironically works to keep to people down ('why try hard for a better situation - when it's so much tougher to do - if you can get something for free?'), but that's a whole 'nother conversation.

There are so many truly poor citizens of the world that are far less violent as a whole than our inner cities. We're not the worst, but given our resources, we should be so much better (at least we're better in the inner cities than in the 90's. That's when it was brutal).

driz
07-27-2012, 02:09 PM
Lucky he's such a small target.

tredigs
07-27-2012, 02:21 PM
My original statement was that "every place has it's dangers". Your reply was "not in non inner city areas" which I found perplexing.

Using public sex and fights as example demonstrates that, there too, is a breakdown in law. Where there is a breakdown in law, there is usually danger.

Now, if you want to discuss frequency of fatal crime, that is something else entirely. I would agree with you there, because factors such as population size, economy and social structure then come into play. Of course, there would be more crime in the inner city, given those factors.

However, magnitude of crime is no different. These types of senseless acts can happen anywhere. Murder takes place in suburbia. Rape takes place in suburbia. It may not happen in the same fashion as someone walking onto a court and opening fire, but it happens.


I stand by my statement: In these troubled times, the threat to ones safety exists everywhere, even in suburbia. Don't let the picket fences fool you, because spouses do beat and kill each other behind closed doors.


Couple things here:

Of course we have crime all across the states. It's the "danger" part that you wrote that i don't agree with; it's violent crime that I'm talking about (I don't care if you're porking in the bushes. That's not a gateway crime... other than to an awesome illegal youtube upload) and that's where we still have a monumental divide between the inner city and the rest of the country.
Like I mentioned earlier, at least we're better off than the early 90's, but it's still a violent crime rate 100% higher than in the burbs. We've been cultured as people to think "that's just the way it is" because of socio-economic status, etc. etc. but it does not have to be that way. And a huge percentage of the violent crime in the suburbs are perpetuated by gang-influenced kids.

I just wish America had a culture where it was seen as imperative to take care of your children (I honestly think it should be a crime not to if you're only reason not to is lack of interest). Not that America has a single culture anyway.

elizur
07-27-2012, 02:25 PM
Violent crime? In which suburb is it anywhere near as high as it is in a city like Detroit. Almost all crime statistics account for population.

Crime rates for Wyandanch, NY://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ny/wyandanch/crime/


Harlem crime rates:http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/mt/harlem/crime/

Knick4Knack
07-27-2012, 02:29 PM
But, the media coverage is a major determining factor in what the severity of a crime is in the city? Uhhh... you sure you don't want to re-think that one? Because it makes no sense... a 2nd degree murder is still a 2nd degree murder whether or not NBC broadcasts it. I'm fully aware of media manipulation and how absurd it is in the states on a number of issues, but I'm not following you here.

There's many factors that go into it, but if I had to choose one it would be the breakdown of the family (see: baby daddies who run scared rather than parent) as the main cause of the violent culture you see in the streets. From there it's a snowball effect to lack of an education, openness to gang influence (someone's gotta take care of them), road to drugs, etc. As proven in certain other parts of the world, socio-economics are secondary to having a tight knit family.

I'm not going to pretend like it's perfect, but even the poorest of the poor (we'll exclude full on homeless) have govt. subsidized housing, govt. subsidized groceries and govt. subsidized child care and govt. subsidized health care. I could go on to say that this is part of a larger socio-economic problem in our culture that ironically works to keep to people down ('why try hard for a better situation - when it's so much tougher to do - if you can get something for free?'), but that's a whole 'nother conversation.

There are so many truly poor citizens of the world that are far less violent as a whole than our inner cities. We're not the worst, but given our resources, we should be so much better (at least we're better in the inner cities than in the 90's. That's when it was brutal).

Politics and media most certainly come into play - ask Ray Lewis, who should not have been charged by Atlanta Prosecutors with the murder of Jacinth Baker and Richard Lollar. However, media coverage and political factors led to that decision. He was ultimately convicted of Obstruction of Justice.

As for this, "violent culture you see in the streets", I don't know how you view the inner city, or Harlem, but you are completely off base. True, poverty can be a factor of crime, because it leads to necessity, but the media would have you believe that people that live in impoverished environments are scared to walk out of their homes due to bullets blazing. The reality is that MOST people that live in these areas are good people. Not the reverse.

People in ghettos do work, believe it or not. They just do not earn the amount that would afford them a better living.

My question, however, is how we got to this point when your reply was to a my statement that "danger exists everywhere" became:

"I could go on to say that this is part of a larger socio-economic problem in our culture that ironically works to keep to people down ('why try hard for a better situation - when it's so much tougher to do - if you can get something for free?'), but that's a whole 'nother conversation."

You sir, have switched gears. I could dance with you, and now talk about entitlement and go in depth about the factors leading to crime. However, that is not what we were addressing.

Our topic: In these troubling times, danger exists everywhere. Even in suburbia- and I stand by that.

You have said nothing that would debunk that statement. Rather, you are fixated on frequency (which I have conceeded due to population size and economics); however, equality in magnitude belongs to me.

Now, you wish to discuss "the breakdown of the urban city family". What does that have to do with my statement that danger exists everywhere?

Am I wrong?

The OP posted that NBA players should never go to Harlem. I disagree totally because I frequent Harlem. I know that there are good, thriving businesses there. I know that there is a mix of multi-cultured people. I also know that incidents like the one that happened at Rucker are not prevalent. They happen, but it is NOT the norm.

fresh prince
07-27-2012, 02:34 PM
But, the media coverage is a major determining factor in what the severity of a crime is in the city? Uhhh... you sure you don't want to re-think that one? Because it makes no sense... a 2nd degree murder is still a 2nd degree murder whether or not NBC broadcasts it. I'm fully aware of media manipulation and how absurd it is in the states on a number of issues, but I'm not following you here.

There's many factors that go into it, but if I had to choose one it would be the breakdown of the family (see: baby daddies who run scared rather than parent) as the main cause of the violent culture you see in the streets. From there it's a snowball effect to lack of an education, openness to gang influence (someone's gotta take care of them), road to drugs, etc. As proven in certain other parts of the world, socio-economics are secondary to having a tight knit family.

I'm not going to pretend like it's perfect, but even the poorest of the poor (we'll exclude full on homeless) have govt. subsidized housing, govt. subsidized groceries and govt. subsidized child care and govt. subsidized health care. I could go on to say that this is part of a larger socio-economic problem in our culture that ironically works to keep to people down ('why try hard for a better situation - when it's so much tougher to do - if you can get something for free?'), but that's a whole 'nother conversation.

There are so many truly poor citizens of the world that are far less violent as a whole than our inner cities. We're not the worst, but given our resources, we should be so much better (at least we're better in the inner cities than in the 90's. That's when it was brutal).

No thats not what I was saying at all. The media coverage determines what crimes people are aware of not the severity of the crime.

I agree with most of you're other points here. Education and Family play a huge role. Education largely because it can lead to more opportunity / financial stability in turn lowering the propensity to commit dumb *** crimes. But lets be clear formal education isn't the only way to financial security.

To your point the family breakdown component is HUGE. Learning right from wrong and most of all having that accountability/ respect factor learning that when you do mess up even on a small scale there will be hell to pay.

knicksfan42
07-27-2012, 02:40 PM
Crime rates for Wyandanch, NY://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ny/wyandanch/crime/


Harlem crime rates:http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/mt/harlem/crime/

You're right. In fact I have no idea why I disputed the fact that violent crime can happen at similar rates in suburbs as it does in inner cities.

tredigs
07-27-2012, 02:45 PM
Politics and media most certainly come into play - ask Ray Lewis, who should not have been charged by Atlanta Prosecutors with the murder of Jacinth Baker and Richard Lollar. However, media coverage and political factors led to that decision. He was ultimately convicted of Obstruction of Justice.

As for this, "violent culture you see in the streets", I don't know how you view the inner city, or Harlem, but you are completely off base. True, poverty can be a factor of crime, because it leads to necessity, but the media would have you believe that people that live in impoverished environments are scared to walk out of their homes due to bullets blazing. The reality is that MOST people that live in these areas are good people. Not the reverse.

People in ghetto's do work, believe it or not. They just do not earn the amount that would afford them a better living.

My question, however, is how we got to this point when your reply was to a my statement that "danger exists everywhere" became:

"I could go on to say that this is part of a larger socio-economic problem in our culture that ironically works to keep to people down ('why try hard for a better situation - when it's so much tougher to do - if you can get something for free?'), but that's a whole 'nother conversation."

You sir, have switched gears. I could dance with you, and now talk about entitlement and go in depth about the factors leading to crime. However, that is not what we were addressing.

Our topic: In these troubling times, danger exists everywhere. Even in suburbia- and I stand by that.

You have said nothing that would debunk that statement. Rather, you are fixated on frequency (which I have conceeded due to population size and economics); however, equality in magnitude belongs to me.

Now, you wish to discuss "the breakdown of the urban city family". What does that have to do with my statement that danger exists everywhere?

Am I wrong?

The OP posted that NBA players should never go to Harlem. I disagree totally because I frequent Harlem. I know that there are good, thriving businesses there. I know that there is a mix of multi-cultured people. I also know that incidents like the one that happened at Rucker are not prevalent. They happen, but it is NOT the norm.

I'm not switching gears, I'm just extrapolating on a point that I wanted you to see.

And what you're not getting is the crime and violent-crime rate. That's a percentage, not a measure of frequency. Percentage wise, there is 100% more crime in an inner city on average in the states than there si outside of the inner city (see: twice the amount per 100 people). Do a quick google search and you'll find plenty of sources comparing crime rates (percentages of population) and stories about how we're better than we used to be, but ultimately still terrible for where we should be.

You can find plenty of poor-as-dirt podunk towns all throughout the nation where the violent crime rate doesn't sniff the inner city - that's not the crux of the issue. Let's look deeper - and ultimately simpler...





No thats not what I was saying at all. The media coverage determines what crimes people are aware of not the severity of the crime.

I agree with most of you're other points here. Education and Family play a huge role. Education largely because it can lead to more opportunity / financial stability in turn lowering the propensity to commit dumb *** crimes. But lets be clear formal education isn't the only way to financial security.

To your point the family breakdown component is HUGE. Learning right from wrong and most of all having that accountability/ respect factor learning that when you do mess up even on a small scale there will be hell to pay.

Suburban crime is on the news MORE, though... For right or wrong, if a kid is abducted or a person is killed in a non-inner city area it's generally seen as a much more alarming deal and the news media picks up on it.

Glad to see we found common ground on the family breakdown. That truly is the crux of the issue in a nation with the vast amount of resources we have here for the poor to get out if they truly want it in their bones (easy? Nope, sure isn't. Nothing worth fighting for is).

Knick4Knack
07-27-2012, 02:51 PM
Couple things here:

Of course we have crime all across the states. It's the "danger" part that you wrote that i don't agree with; it's violent crime that I'm talking about (I don't care if you're porking in the bushes. That's not a gateway crime... other than to an awesome illegal youtube upload) and that's where we still have a monumental divide between the inner city and the rest of the country.
Like I mentioned earlier, at least we're better off than the early 90's, but it's still a violent crime rate 100% higher than in the burbs. We've been cultured as people to think "that's just the way it is" because of socio-economic status, etc. etc. but it does not have to be that way. And a huge percentage of the violent crime in the suburbs are perpetuated by gang-influenced kids.

I just wish America had a culture where it was seen as imperative to take care of your children (I honestly think it should be a crime not to if you're only reason not to is lack of interest). Not that America has a single culture anyway.

Perplexing post...

You speak of the breakdown of the urban city family. You state that, at the core of the existence of violence in the inner city is the lack of parenting, even stating: "openness to gang influence (someone's gotta take care of them)" as a factor. Then conclude your argument in this post with "And a huge percentage of the violent crime in the suburbs are perpetuated by gang-influenced kids"

You sir, have effectively destroyed your own argument.

Isn't that exactly the same factor?

Next- Danger and violence go hand in hand. How can a crime be violent and not dangerous?

Also, you choose not to acknowledge the correlation between the "breakdown in law" given by the examples of brawling and public sex, as a precursor to more serious crime.

knicksfan42
07-27-2012, 02:58 PM
The OP posted that NBA players should never go to Harlem. I disagree totally because I frequent Harlem. I know that there are good, thriving businesses there. I know that there is a mix of multi-cultured people. I also know that incidents like the one that happened at Rucker are not prevalent. They happen, but it is NOT the norm.




You can frequent whichever neighborhoods you want. The point is that Harlem is one of the worst neighborhoods in the city and violent crime there is definitely prevalent.

Hired Guns
07-27-2012, 03:01 PM
The joker who said Harlem NY is a bad place for an NBA player to play ball is ignorant. That statement took no thought to it. It's all myth and sterotypical of someone who has a myopic view of Harlem. Rucker Park is the grandest of all bsketball summer leagues around the world. Before you make another statement like that, just don't do it. :)

micks4real
07-27-2012, 03:10 PM
Nate Is Only Only 5'9 But Has the Ability To Single Hand-idly Change the Outcome Of A Game When He's On.. Very Inconsistent At Times... Since He's 5'9, His Defense Will always Be An Issue. (Not His Fault, But He Tries His Hardest)

At This Point Of His Career He's a Bench Player/Depth Signing. Best Case Scnereo Is if He's Signed To Be a 6th Man of a Team (Jamal Crawford Role)..But I believe thats Very Unlikely.

I would honestly Be Surprised If He Gets More than The Veterans Minimum of $1.2M.

thnx bro.. well you know what I was thinking with our shortage at the 2 spot lol

Knick4Knack
07-27-2012, 03:11 PM
I'm not switching gears, I'm just extrapolating on a point that I wanted you to see.

And what you're not getting is the crime and violent-crime rate. That's a percentage, not a measure of frequency. Percentage wise, there is 100% more crime in an inner city on average in the states than there si outside of the inner city (see: twice the amount per 100 people). Do a quick google search and you'll find plenty of sources comparing crime rates (percentages of population) and stories about how we're better than we used to be, but ultimately still terrible for where we should be.

You can find plenty of poor-as-dirt podunk towns all throughout the nation where the violent crime rate doesn't sniff the inner city - that's not the crux of the issue. Let's look deeper - and ultimately simpler...






Suburban crime is on the news MORE, though... For right or wrong, if a kid is abducted or a person is killed in a non-inner city area it's generally seen as a much more alarming deal and the news media picks up on it.

Glad to see we found common ground on the family breakdown. That truly is the crux of the issue in a nation with the vast amount of resources we have here for the poor to get out if they truly want it in their bones (easy? Nope, sure isn't. Nothing worth fighting for is).

Good discussion, Tredigs and Fresh Prince. I gotta go for now, but I'll leave you with this true story:

During a History lecture at Georgia State University, we were discussing the importance of a college degree in general (can't remember how e got to that) and our professor posed this question: "Do you really want everyone to get a college dregree?". Most of us seemed befuddled at this question. He would then state, "....because, if everyone has a college degree, it would lower your degree's value", and he was dead serious.

We live in the framework of economically defined structure. Though our status is not locked in, barriers to entry are certainly evident.

You seem like a sincere person, digs, but not everyone thinks like you.

tredigs
07-27-2012, 03:14 PM
Perplexing post...

You speak of the breakdown of the urban city family. You state that, at the core of the existence of violence in the inner city is the lack of parenting, even stating: "openness to gang influence (someone's gotta take care of them)" as a factor. Then conclude your argument in this post with "And a huge percentage of the violent crime in the suburbs are perpetuated by gang-influenced kids"

You sir, have effectively destroyed your own argument.

Isn't that exactly the same factor?

Next- Danger and violence go hand in hand. How can a crime be violent and not dangerous?

Also, you choose not to acknowledge the correlation between the "breakdown in law" given by the examples of brawling and public sex, as a precursor to more serious crime.

I'll assume you understand my point on crime rates now (as opposed to frequency/magnitude) and won't continue on that.

And I did not destroy my argument, you're just failing to follow my thought line here. I'll do the math with you:

Which of the two populations of people in the states have a significantly higher rate of highly dysfunctional homes (one parent in or out for long stretches, major drug use by one or more parents, etc), no permanent home or a broken home with no father - the suburbs/country or inner city? Answer: Inner city.

What are gangs primarily composed of in the states? Answer: Young kids with either a highly dysfunctional home life, no home life, or a broken home (you either know this already, can trust me or can do the research. It's a fact).

Violent crime, like broken homes, happens everywhere. But it happens FAR MORE in one area than another. That is the point. My point with the suburban gang comment is that many of the causes of the violent crime in the suburbs is a microcosm of the same issue we have in the cities. It's just a smaller scale because by and large the rest of the country has it figured out. That's what we need to work on in the inner cities; A culture change starting by getting parents to take care of their ****ing children for a change.

I'm telling you, it is THE #1 problem in America's cities. And so much would begin to change positively if that alone was not an issue. The problem is that unfortunately it's also connected to tightly to certain races like the black culture and people are afraid to touch it. Which is a shame because it's prevalent in every culture, it just happens that they're the worst.

edit: OK - good talk. It's good to talk about.

Knick4Knack
07-27-2012, 03:23 PM
You can frequent whichever neighborhoods you want. The point is that Harlem is one of the worst neighborhoods in the city and violent crime there is definitely prevalent.

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/mt/harlem/crime/

Based on what?

Do some areas have more crime than others, certainly.

And yet, you continue to sit on a fence.

Should NBA players not go to Rucker Park based on some ridiculous notion that it is swarming with malevolent criminals?

I find Harlem as I find many places, "Don't start nuthin', won't be nuthin'"

Harlem is not as bad as you make it out to be.

jiggin
07-27-2012, 05:07 PM
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/mt/harlem/crime/

Based on what?

Do some areas have more crime than others, certainly.

And yet, you continue to sit on a fence.

Should NBA players not go to Rucker Park based on some ridiculous notion that it is swarming with malevolent criminals?

I find Harlem as I find many places, "Don't start nuthin', won't be nuthin'"

Harlem is not as bad as you make it out to be.

would you recommend a white guy or gal walk around Harlem at night?

there are lots of places that I wouldn't recommend the above... Harlem is one of them. Don't mistake, its not a great place AT ALL...no one said its the only place in the world that is like this...but that doesn't excuse it from being on that "list".

PS - I wouldn't recommend African Americans to walk around certain places in the south...especially after dark.

unfortunately this is less about anyone being racist who is pointing out these things, its just a fact...like it or not.

fresh prince
07-27-2012, 05:39 PM
Good discussion, Tredigs and Fresh Prince. I gotta go for now, but I'll leave you with this true story:

During a History lecture at Georgia State University, we were discussing the importance of a college degree in general (can't remember how e got to that) and our professor posed this question: "Do you really want everyone to get a college dregree?". Most of us seemed befuddled at this question. He would then state, "....because, if everyone has a college degree, it would lower your degree's value", and he was dead serious.

We live in the framework of economically defined structure. Though our status is not locked in, barriers to entry are certainly evident.

You seem like a sincere person, digs, but not everyone thinks like you.

Cheers Knack!

tHIS IS A VERY TRUE POINT! And the reality is that the college degree has been devalued given the current state of our economy. A buddy just graduated with his MBA and has been looking for a non grunt work gig for the past 6 months.

Hell part of me wishes I went the entrepreneurship route instead of getting my degree and setting on the "tackle corporate America plan".

Knick4Knack
07-27-2012, 07:50 PM
would you recommend a white guy or gal walk around Harlem at night?

there are lots of places that I wouldn't recommend the above... Harlem is one of them. Don't mistake, its not a great place AT ALL...no one said its the only place in the world that is like this...but that doesn't excuse it from being on that "list".

PS - I wouldn't recommend African Americans to walk around certain places in the south...especially after dark.

unfortunately this is less about anyone being racist who is pointing out these things, its just a fact...like it or not.

Congratulations, you are the first person to bring up race.

What does a white person walking down the streets of Harlem at night have to do with anything? What magically happens that makes whites more in danger at night as opposed to blacks. Crime is crime - and the value of a black life is the exact same as the value of a white life.

People in Harlem don't hate on white people to the point of seeking to do them harm. You got an example of that, please post it. Otherwise, you are making blanket statements based off of T.V. and movies.

And actually, as most people from that area would know, whites are usually SAFER in those situations, because people know that if a white person gets mugged, raped or killed in Harlem, scores of police will raze that community until the perpetrator is found. It's instant news.

Now, as far as being unwelcome in some communities, due to clan activity or what have you, that is a different subject altogether. That situation doesn't happen in Harlem. Name me an incident where someone white was beaten or told to get out. Im sure they feel welcomed. In fact, scores of whites are moving to Harlem:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/nyregion/06harlem.html?pagewanted=all

You think they stay in at night cringing with fear?

Harlem is wide and varied. Stop forming your perception off of bad television.

jiggin
07-28-2012, 01:02 AM
Congratulations, you are the first person to bring up race.

What does a white person walking down the streets of Harlem at night have to do with anything? What magically happens that makes whites more in danger at night as opposed to blacks. Crime is crime - and the value of a black life is the exact same as the value of a white life.

People in Harlem don't hate on white people to the point of seeking to do them harm. You got an example of that, please post it. Otherwise, you are making blanket statements based off of T.V. and movies.

And actually, as most people from that area would know, whites are usually SAFER in those situations, because people know that if a white person gets mugged, raped or killed in Harlem, scores of police will raze that community until the perpetrator is found. It's instant news.

Now, as far as being unwelcome in some communities, due to clan activity or what have you, that is a different subject altogether. That situation doesn't happen in Harlem. Name me an incident where someone white was beaten or told to get out. Im sure they feel welcomed. In fact, scores of whites are moving to Harlem:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/06/nyregion/06harlem.html?pagewanted=all

You think they stay in at night cringing with fear?

Harlem is wide and varied. Stop forming your perception off of bad television.

when you are ready to talk about reality, let me know. All your ideas sound great...but they aren't real...and they aren't what is really happening. Believe me...walking down at night between the red and whites (buildings) on the south side of chicago...a white person will get messed with...BELIEVE ME. I dated a african american woman that lived there...and she came to my place mainly because of the issue.

Reality is much harsher (for each race in different situations) than you seem to believe.

Knick4Knack
07-28-2012, 01:29 AM
when you are ready to talk about reality, let me know. All your ideas sound great...but they aren't real...and they aren't what is really happening. Believe me...walking down at night between the red and whites (buildings) on the south side of chicago...a white person will get messed with...BELIEVE ME. I dated a african american woman that lived there...and she came to my place mainly because of the issue.

Reality is much harsher (for each race in different situations) than you seem to believe.

Right, because your experiences are the only ones that qualify as real, correct.

I've played ball into the night with whites in Harlem, the Bronx and other places without incident. So what's your point.

And, to clarify, we are talking about Harlem. Please stay on topic.