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View Full Version : Now that the Rockets got Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik, are they relevant???



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TEECOOP
07-25-2012, 09:24 PM
Tyson Chandler is making 14 million a year and what do he do rebound n block shot ...Asik is getting 8 million a year n what do he do rebound n block shot... if Asik get Chandler min Asik number will be better then Chandlers and Asik would be making alot less then Chandler

Evolution23
07-25-2012, 09:26 PM
Tyson Chandler is making 14 million a year and what do he do rebound n block shot ...Asik is getting 8 million a year n what do he do rebound n block shot... if Asik get Chandler min Asik number will be better then Chandlers and Asik would be making alot less then Chandler

:laugh:
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:laugh:
:laugh:
:laugh:

mightybosstone
07-25-2012, 09:29 PM
Tyson Chandler is making 14 million a year and what do he do rebound n block shot ...Asik is getting 8 million a year n what do he do rebound n block shot... if Asik get Chandler min Asik number will be better then Chandlers and Asik would be making alot less then Chandler

If they were to average the same number of minutes, I think Asik would have more rebounds and blocks per game (his BLK% and TS% are higher). But he's nowhere near as refined offensively as Chandler is and I don't think he's quite as good of a defender yet.

TEECOOP
07-25-2012, 09:33 PM
When do Tyson Chandler score other then when he is dunking??

mightybosstone
07-25-2012, 09:36 PM
When do Tyson Chandler score other then when he is dunking??

I'm not saying he's a particularly skilled offensive player, but he IS very efficient and he's a superior free throw shooter. I like Asik's potential, but saying he could be better than the reigning DPOY in his first season as a starter is a bit of a stretch.

Vinylman
07-25-2012, 10:24 PM
it is so awesome to watch rockets fans scramble... they base all discussions on "projected" numbers and ignore real life factors like him going from a team that had the lowest Points against per game last year in the league to a team that was in the bottom half of the same category....

AND THEN argue that this FACT will have no impact on his numbers

can't wait to see the next ASIK IS AWESOME ON A PER36 post

Truly ****ing hilarious

jam
07-25-2012, 10:33 PM
If you're 7' tall and can walk upright, you're going to get a big contract. Someone's going to pay you. Just ask javale mcgee. He may not understand your question, or anything else for that matter, but he's still getting paid. Or Noah. $60 mil!!!

Chronz
07-25-2012, 10:35 PM
it is so awesome to watch rockets fans scramble... they base all discussions on "projected" numbers and ignore real life factors like him going from a team that had the lowest Points against per game last year in the league to a team that was in the bottom half of the same category....

AND THEN argue that this FACT will have no impact on his numbers

can't wait to see the next ASIK IS AWESOME ON A PER36 post

Truly ****ing hilarious

What makes you think they are ignoring them?

KniCks4LiFe
07-25-2012, 10:38 PM
I'm not saying he's a particularly skilled offensive player, but he IS very efficient and he's a superior free throw shooter. I like Asik's potential, but saying he could be better than the reigning DPOY in his first season as a starter is a bit of a stretch.

I like Tyson. Don't get me wrong I do. But the reason he got DPOY is b/c the Knicks interior D is that bad w/o him. You could have plugged in Noah in Chandler's spot and he'd do the same and he'd prbly win DPOY even though LeBron James, KG, Gibson, Ibaka had a better rating, you could plug Asik in that D and here's all you have to know, his defensive numbers in a limited time are better than Tyson Chandler's, better than Gibson's and Noah. That's no lie, it's a fact. So w/ increased mins. the only issue will be stamina, if Asik gets through that, he will have better numbers than Tyson Chandler defensively on a consistant basis.

This is how NBA players are rated, limited time and small sample sizes. A college player has no more than 30-38 games to rate him vs amateur level talent, this is no different on the pro level, on the pro level to get promoted you have to beat people out for spots, Asik defensively on the Bulls had numbers that clearly beat out Gibson and Noah. He was the #2 rated defensive C in the game. All he was missing was more mins. to improve, he's improved defensively yr. after yr. so it's not really a bit of stretch. Hell Tyson Chandler was rated #1 defensive C when he came out of H.S. but there was no real sample size other than his athleticism. Asik and I haven't given him enough credit, that's one talented, severely underrated C.

jam
07-25-2012, 10:38 PM
it is so awesome to watch rockets fans scramble... they base all discussions on "projected" numbers and ignore real life factors like him going from a team that had the lowest Points against per game last year in the league to a team that was in the bottom half of the same category....

AND THEN argue that this FACT will have no impact on his numbers

can't wait to see the next ASIK IS AWESOME ON A PER36 post

Truly ****ing hilarious

Again, talking out of your a--. Have you ever stepped onto a basketball court? Have you tried shooting against athletes who are a foot taller than anyone else on the court; have you ever attempted to grab a rebound against someone with a reach a foot longer? You think thibodeau was out on the court lifting Asik's arms and bending his knees for him on defense? Your post is so stupid it truly boggles the mind.

Believe it or not, 7 footers have been rebounding and blocking shots for some time now.

Add to that, Asik is not a stiff, he is reasonably active and agile for a man of that size.

These are innate advantages that will never disappear if a player switches from one team to another. Yeah, dude is STILL 7' tall and relatively athletic even if he wears a different uniform. Boggles the mind!

The average nba contract is $5.4 million--that's what Asik will be earning over the next two seasons.

RCarlson85
07-25-2012, 10:56 PM
Is this a joke? Because I laughed when I read the title.

naztrack
07-25-2012, 11:12 PM
unless Lin turns out to be Lebron...thats a hell no, they are indeed a lottery team

aztr0
07-25-2012, 11:24 PM
Who is Asik?

alexander_37
07-26-2012, 12:05 AM
unless Lin turns out to be Lebron...thats a hell no, they are indeed a lottery team

Lol but Felton is.

Cal827
07-26-2012, 12:13 AM
If you're 7' tall and can walk upright, you're going to get a big contract. Someone's going to pay you. Just ask javale mcgee. He may not understand your question, or anything else for that matter, but he's still getting paid. Or Noah. $60 mil!!!

:laugh: All Kinds of win.

Vinylman
07-26-2012, 12:22 AM
What makes you think they are ignoring them?

the fact that they support every argument of asik's contract in terms of his PER36

Again, to ignore the differences in those 2 teams approaches to defense and pace is mind numbingly dumb...

In addition they simply ignore the negative impact he will have at the offensive end by not factoring in that he won't have to be accounted for which will lead to more doubles on others (this is the same thing stupid laker fans miss when it comes to Jordan Hill)

Again, the guy is a decent big but you got guys on here quoting PER36 stats like they will happen if he plays expanded minutes... they won't

Vinylman
07-26-2012, 12:31 AM
Again, talking out of your a--. Have you ever stepped onto a basketball court? Have you tried shooting against athletes who are a foot taller than anyone else on the court; have you ever attempted to grab a rebound against someone with a reach a foot longer? You think thibodeau was out on the court lifting Asik's arms and bending his knees for him on defense? Your post is so stupid it truly boggles the mind.

Believe it or not, 7 footers have been rebounding and blocking shots for some time now.

Add to that, Asik is not a stiff, he is reasonably active and agile for a man of that size.

These are innate advantages that will never disappear if a player switches from one team to another. Yeah, dude is STILL 7' tall and relatively athletic even if he wears a different uniform. Boggles the mind!

The average nba contract is $5.4 million--that's what Asik will be earning over the next two seasons.

kewl story...

irrelevant to my point but pretty fascinating... :rolleyes:

Your inability to understand how role players can have success in one system and not another proves you don't understand basketball nor the NBA in general

can't wait for the season so we can all take a gander at asik's per36 stats.

I gotta an idea... how about you stop talking in generalities and put some numbers out there you can be accountable for...

Are his PER36 numbers gonna improve or decline?

I don't expect a response because i am sure you are part of the current US culture that doesn't focus on results but rather just likes to hear themself talk :D

Vinylman
07-26-2012, 12:35 AM
Who is Asik?

The greatest defender in NBA history*







*whoops... sorry, he doesn't qualify because he plays a little under 15 minutes a game... but hey IF HE QUALIFIED... he would be the greatest... statistically... that is how the game is played... on paper... right? :facepalm:

FOBolous
07-26-2012, 12:46 AM
The greatest defender in NBA history*







*whoops... sorry, he doesn't qualify because he plays a little under 15 minutes a game... but hey IF HE QUALIFIED... he would be the greatest... statistically... that is how the game is played... on paper... right? :facepalm:

well all these projected, abstract numbers and stats is how the Rockets are able to find so many good players that everyone else overlooked. So keep laughing while we continue to find more Luis Scolas and Kyle Lowrys.

SouthSideRookie
07-26-2012, 12:51 AM
well all these projected, abstract numbers and stats is how the Rockets are able to find so many good players that everyone else overlooked. So keep laughing while we continue to find more Luis Scolas and Kyle Lowrys.

Quit responding to him, he's a big delusional Laker homer. The kid's fetish is to bash on an irrelevant team, pretty strange if you ask me.

Vinylman
07-26-2012, 12:53 AM
well all these projected, abstract numbers and stats is how the Rockets are able to find so many good players that everyone else overlooked. So keep laughing while we continue to find more Luis Scolas and Kyle Lowrys.

are those guys still on the rockets?

Did you ever win anything with them?

Just checking...

kewl story though

thanks :clap:

Vinylman
07-26-2012, 12:56 AM
Quit responding to him, he's a big delusional Laker homer. The kid's fetish is to bash on an irrelevant team, pretty strange if you ask me.

nah... just to point out the flaw in your logic...

i haven't seen one Rocket fans acknowledge that Asik's Per36 will suffer because of going to a less defensively minded team and the fact that playing more minutes will naturally impact his numbers...

talk about delusional homers

FOBolous
07-26-2012, 01:04 AM
are those guys still on the rockets?

Did you ever win anything with them?

Just checking...

kewl story though

thanks :clap:

nope. they're not with the rockets cause we let them go. we're rebuilding.

and yes, we won a lot of games with them. we took your Lakers to 7 games in the second round of the playoffs with them while both Yao and Tmac were injured.

nice try though. so keep trolling while we keep finding more Luis Scolas and Kyle Lowrys with our projected and abstract stats/numbers that's too complicated for you to comprehend.

Vinylman
07-26-2012, 01:18 AM
nope. they're not with the rockets cause we let them go. we're rebuilding.

and yes, we won a lot of games with them. we took your Lakers to 7 games in the second round of the playoffs with them while both Yao and Tmac were injured.

nice try though. so keep trolling while we keep finding more Luis Scolas and Kyle Lowrys with our projected and abstract stats/numbers that's too complicated for you to comprehend.

awesome... Houston... where second round exits are championed :clap:

rebuilding? Haven't you been doing that for almost 20 years now :rolleyes:

good thing jordan took a couple of years off or people in Houston would have nothing to talk about :clap:

how did those Advanced Stats work out on Ariza? :clap:

FOBolous
07-26-2012, 01:32 AM
awesome... Houston... where second round exits are championed :clap:

rebuilding? Haven't you been doing that for almost 20 years now :rolleyes:

good thing jordan took a couple of years off or people in Houston would have nothing to talk about :clap:

how did those Advanced Stats work out on Ariza? :clap:

lol...hey. Scola + Lowry took Kobe, Gasol, and Bynum to 7 games. either we're really good or you team just suck that much. you decide.

we've been rebuilding for 20 years? which league have you been watching cause i know it's not the NBA.

hey, at least we managed to do something when Jordan took those two years off. What were the Lakers doing during those two years?

i think we traded for Ariza before we hired Morey and used advanced stat. and again, those advanced stats are working pretty well for us. thank you very much.

again. nice try :clap:

Vinylman
07-26-2012, 01:41 AM
lol...hey. Scola + Lowry took Kobe, Gasol, and Bynum to 7 games. either we're really good or you team just suck that much. you decide.

we've been rebuilding for 20 years? which league have you been watching cause i know it's not the NBA.

hey, at least we managed to do something when Jordan took those two years off. What were the Lakers doing during those two years?

i think we traded for Ariza before we hired Morey and used advanced stat. and again, those advanced stats are working pretty well for us. thank you very much.

again. nice try :clap:

:facepalm:

bynum in 2009... yep... we know who watches the nba :rolleyes:

Yeah we sucked... oh yeah championship number 15 that year :facepalm:

Ariza (traded :laugh: )... not signed by morey :facepalm:

so much wrong not even worth conversing...

gotta get me some Asik Per36 :laugh:

FOBolous
07-26-2012, 02:08 AM
:facepalm:

bynum in 2009... yep... we know who watches the nba :rolleyes:

Yeah we sucked... oh yeah championship number 15 that year :facepalm:

Ariza (traded :laugh: )... not signed by morey :facepalm:

so much wrong not even worth conversing...

gotta get me some Asik Per36 :laugh:

lol i never said the Lakers suck. Lakers are good. I personally think they're the best franchise in the league. I think they have more winning seasons than any other team in the league. still doesn't change the fact the Rockets owned them during the two years that Jordan took a break.

ldoesn't matter if Bynum was on the team or not. two players that everyone else overlooked that we found because of advanced stats took your Lakers to 7 games. again, either we're that good or your team just suck that much.

keep trolling.

Vinylman
07-26-2012, 02:31 AM
lol i never said the Lakers suck. Lakers are good. I personally think they're the best franchise in the league. I think they have more winning seasons than any other team in the league. still doesn't change the fact the Rockets owned them during the two years that Jordan took a break.

ldoesn't matter if Bynum was on the team or not. two players that everyone else overlooked that we found because of advanced stats took your Lakers to 7 games. again, either we're that good or your team just suck that much.

keep trolling.

You mean Lowry the back up Pg who was 14-40 in the series and had more To's than assists?

Kewl story got anymore?

FOBolous
07-26-2012, 02:50 AM
You mean Lowry the back up Pg who was 14-40 in the series and had more To's than assists?

Kewl story got anymore?

no. i mean Lowry as in the guy who led the charge and took your Lakers to 7 games. the guy most people dismissed, and we found using advanced statistics....something that's too complicated for you to comprehend. dude why am i wasting my time and going in circles with you?

Chronz
07-26-2012, 03:33 AM
the fact that they support every argument of asik's contract in terms of his PER36
That doesnt mean they ignore anything. That means they are extrapolating to get a sense of his productivity with more minutes. Whats truly dumb is looking at per game averages and basing your opinion of that player solely on that.


Again, to ignore the differences in those 2 teams approaches to defense and pace is mind numbingly dumb...

Again, what makes you think they are ignoring anything? Couldnt people say the same thing to you for ignoring that players tend to play better as starters with freedom of minutes?


In addition they simply ignore the negative impact he will have at the offensive end by not factoring in that he won't have to be accounted for which will lead to more doubles on others (this is the same thing stupid laker fans miss when it comes to Jordan Hill)
Pretty sure nobody has ever claimed he would be a net positive player offensively, in fact Im pretty sure most smart fans realize that because if you look at his per minute numbers, usage, and efficiency, you dont see a player who would be plus offensively. Ive only seen people comment on his awesome defensive impact.


Again, the guy is a decent big but you got guys on here quoting PER36 stats like they will happen if he plays expanded minutes... they won't

Its better than referencing per game averages as if those will happen, they wont. And what statistical studies are you basing this opinion on, who are you to say they wont any more than them saying they will? Isnt there some middle ground where we can agree they will be within a certain approximation of those stats?

GREATNESS ONE
07-26-2012, 03:41 AM
Get Bynum and your off-season goes from average to great.

NYYCowboys
07-26-2012, 04:13 AM
I love when fans of teams defend their awful team even tho deep down they know its a horrible team and if it was another team they would hate on it. Lin is a dleague player who will get 15 million for having 10 good games. Thats never been heard of. Sickening

Seriously??? You're saying this of all people??

sunsfan88
07-26-2012, 05:40 AM
I'm glad that NY decided to pass on Lin and Houston had him in mind the whole time. Or else we probably don't get Dragic back.

Thank you Knicks and Rockets! :D

BobbyHillSwag
07-26-2012, 08:15 AM
im glad NY decided to pass on lin too with that contract.

Vinylman
07-26-2012, 11:31 AM
That doesnt mean they ignore anything. That means they are extrapolating to get a sense of his productivity with more minutes. Whats truly dumb is looking at per game averages and basing your opinion of that player solely on that.


Again, what makes you think they are ignoring anything? Couldnt people say the same thing to you for ignoring that players tend to play better as starters with freedom of minutes?


Pretty sure nobody has ever claimed he would be a net positive player offensively, in fact Im pretty sure most smart fans realize that because if you look at his per minute numbers, usage, and efficiency, you dont see a player who would be plus offensively. Ive only seen people comment on his awesome defensive impact.


Its better than referencing per game averages as if those will happen, they wont. And what statistical studies are you basing this opinion on, who are you to say they wont any more than them saying they will? Isnt there some middle ground where we can agree they will be within a certain approximation of those stats?

The Classic PSD bait and switch...

Please provide a single instance where i quoted per game individual statistics... go ahead... keep looking... didn't find anything... thats what i thought...

so please do not try and make this a discussion of per game vs advance stats...

i have never said that PER36 stats should be ignored... in fact, i have always said they should be used as a guide and one component of evaluating a players potential... However, the sample size on Asik is very small so i do not believe it is reasonable to extrapolate his actuals when he plays less than half of the PER36...

now, i will play along and point out something that should troubling for those statisticians who rely primarily on AS/PER36 ...

One of the primary arguments on here is that his rebounding is exceptional and WILL translate on a per36 basis / TRB%... I seriously doubt that and will use statistics to prove it....

Asik was forced to start during the playoffs and play extended minutes... what happened to his rebound rate? it went from 20.1 during the season to 11.9 during the playoffs... his Rebounds per36 went from 13.0 to 7.9

One might ask why this happened... was it because he played against frontline players and not back ups? Was it a conditioning issue? I don't know but the STATS show that extrapolating his numbers doesn't work when he actually plays the minutes...

sample size works both ways so please no red herrings...

Vinylman
07-26-2012, 11:37 AM
no. i mean Lowry as in the guy who led the charge and took your Lakers to 7 games. the guy most people dismissed, and we found using advanced statistics....something that's too complicated for you to comprehend. dude why am i wasting my time and going in circles with you?

Lowry :facepalm:

a guy who played an average of 15 mins a game in the series...

again, quit making yourself look stupid... brooks was the starter and the one who gave the lakers problems :facepalm:

mightybosstone
07-26-2012, 11:43 AM
However, the sample size on Asik is very small so i do not believe it is reasonable to extrapolate his actuals when he plays less than half of the PER36...

One of the primary arguments on here is that his rebounding is exceptional and WILL translate on a per36 basis / TRB%... I seriously doubt that and will use statistics to prove it....Asik was forced to start during the playoffs and play extended minutes... what happened to his rebound rate? it went from 20.1 during the season to 11.9 during the playoffs... his Rebounds per36 went from 13.0 to 7.9
It's pretty hilarious to me that you use sample size in your previous argument and then go on to use a 6-game stretch in the playoffs with a banged up Chicago team in which he still only played 21 minutes as your next argument. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. His sample size is small regardless of what you're looking at, which is why Morey is taking a gamble on potential and not prior production.

EDUTEXANS
07-26-2012, 11:58 AM
Brooks was the point guard back then

Vinylman
07-26-2012, 11:59 AM
It's pretty hilarious to me that you use sample size in your previous argument and then go on to use a 6-game stretch in the playoffs with a banged up Chicago team in which he still only played 21 minutes as your next argument. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. His sample size is small regardless of what you're looking at, which is why Morey is taking a gamble on potential and not prior production.

Classic PSD... slice and dice a guys comments to fit a preconceived argument...

talk about the definition of trolling :facepalm:

why did you leave the following out?

now, i will play along and point out something that should troubling for those statisticians who rely primarily on AS/PER36 ...

i prefaced my whole point about small sample sizes with the above... its the statisticians who are having their cake and eating it to... i am not the one supporting his bad contract with ONLY stats... that is guys like you

nice try on the slice and dice though :rolleyes:

Vinylman
07-26-2012, 12:02 PM
Brooks was the point guard back then

yep...

people also forget that Yao's injury occured because Jackson made it a point with Gasol to tell him to run Yao's *** up and down the court to wear him out... Jackson was even quoted as saying don't worry about the rebounds Pau... kobe and lamar will handle that... :D

RLundi
07-26-2012, 12:08 PM
One of the primary arguments on here is that his rebounding is exceptional and WILL translate on a per36 basis / TRB%... I seriously doubt that and will use statistics to prove it....

You've proven absolutely nothing. All you've done is present a misguided argument about small sample sizes that completely discredits your original stance on Asik's 'very small' sample size. Extrapolation is one of statistics' most basic concepts and at the very least provides a snapshot of what could be reasonably EXPECTED. What on earth do you base the premise on that Asik will not improve to a reasonable degree given starter's minutes besides your own opinion that can't be supported by fact, or at least numerical theories?



Asik was forced to start during the playoffs and play extended minutes... what happened to his rebound rate? it went from 20.1 during the season to 11.9 during the playoffs... his Rebounds per36 went from 13.0 to 7.9

Very interesting (and not surprising) that you pick and choose the importance or unimportance of small sample sizes when it works to your advantage. 'Extended minutes'? It was 60 less games than the regular season and in those few games, he averaged 6 more minutes. Superb rationalization. A small sample size isn't 'reasonable' unless it supports your asinine viewpoints? Pick a stance; either it's relevant or it isn't.



One might ask why this happened... was it because he played against frontline players and not back ups? Was it a conditioning issue? I don't know but the STATS show that extrapolating his numbers doesn't work when he actually plays the minutes...

Again, bringing nothing concrete to the discussion besides mere speculation and conjecture. I love how you keep saying STATS yet you ignore the very same regular season STATS over two years and nearly 150 games in which his rebounding rate is almost 20% which to most sensible individuals would typically be a much more appropriate springboard to base extrapolation on. But no, you'd rather discard that in favor of SIX playoff games :clap:

mightybosstone
07-26-2012, 12:08 PM
Classic PSD... slice and dice a guys comments to fit a preconceived argument...

talk about the definition of trolling :facepalm:

why did you leave the following out?

now, i will play along and point out something that should troubling for those statisticians who rely primarily on AS/PER36 ...

i prefaced my whole point about small sample sizes with the above... its the statisticians who are having their cake and eating it to... i am not the one supporting his bad contract with ONLY stats... that is guys like you

nice try on the slice and dice though :rolleyes:
At no point was I trying to "slice and dice" your argument. Instead of writing in moderate sized paragraphs you write in short, fragmented sentences, which make your posts far longer than they need to be. So, I cut the portions of your post I needed to in order to plead my case.

But I clearly think you have no idea what "trolling" means, and that it's completely ridiculous to cite sample size in the same argument that you criticize it. It goes both ways, and it's ignorant to assume otherwise.

And I'm well aware that you prefaced your argument, but if you go through and look through the posts of most Rockets fans (myself included) which use the per 36 argument, most of us preface that by saying per 36 isn't a good indicator of what his production will be as a starter.

No one here is saying that Asik will be an 8/13/3 guy as a starter in Houston. But I don't think that 6/10/2 in 35-30 minutes is necessarily out of the question. And I think he's only going to get better with time as he gets acclimated to playing starters minutes and gets used to his teammates.

mightybosstone
07-26-2012, 12:10 PM
people also forget that Yao's injury occured because Jackson made it a point with Gasol to tell him to run Yao's *** up and down the court to wear him out... Jackson was even quoted as saying don't worry about the rebounds Pau... kobe and lamar will handle that... :D

What does that have to do with anything? Are you trying to downplay the success Houston had in that series? If Yao hadn't gotten injured, it's quite possible the Lakers don't get past Houston.

Becks2307
07-26-2012, 12:15 PM
umm they lost Scola and Lowry and replaced them with two inferior players? I don't get it

mightybosstone
07-26-2012, 12:17 PM
I don't know what's funnier, the OP who was clearly trolling or the dozens of posters who keep posting in this thread who have no idea that he was trolling.

Stinkyoutsider
07-26-2012, 12:36 PM
I think the Rockets did a great job with what they had available and who wanted to come play there. Lin will help fill seats and Asik will play D and rebound.

They have a good deal of salary cap space to sign Lin and Asik to these deals. I really don't blame Morey for structuring the deals the way he did. After not being able to attract a big money free agent this last few years, I would lay down the hammer and scare teams off of matching any offer sheet I put up.

Rockets might be a lottery team now, but with a good amount of prospects on the roster and some picks coming next year, I think they're in a good position. Hey, we never know, some of these prospects the Rockets picked up might turn out to be starter quality or very good bench players. Add that with Lin, Asik, and a few picks next year, and they'll be an alright team.

alexander_37
07-26-2012, 01:01 PM
umm they lost Scola and Lowry and replaced them with two inferior players? I don't get it

Patterson > Scola at this point. Much better rebounder and defender. He can score but in different ways other than the mid range jumper. Next to Asik he will flourish.

Vinylman
07-26-2012, 01:02 PM
At no point was I trying to "slice and dice" your argument. Instead of writing in moderate sized paragraphs you write in short, fragmented sentences, which make your posts far longer than they need to be. So, I cut the portions of your post I needed to in order to plead my case.

But I clearly think you have no idea what "trolling" means, and that it's completely ridiculous to cite sample size in the same argument that you criticize it. It goes both ways, and it's ignorant to assume otherwise.

And I'm well aware that you prefaced your argument, but if you go through and look through the posts of most Rockets fans (myself included) which use the per 36 argument, most of us preface that by saying per 36 isn't a good indicator of what his production will be as a starter.

No one here is saying that Asik will be an 8/13/3 guy as a starter in Houston. But I don't think that 6/10/2 in 35-30 minutes is necessarily out of the question. And I think he's only going to get better with time as he gets acclimated to playing starters minutes and gets used to his teammates.

Your last two paragraphs are the FIRST time i have seen any Rocket fan commit to numbers and not talk in generalities... for that i commend you

so now the question is .... is a guy who provides 6/10/2 worth $8.3 million a year? I don't think he is you obviously do... as for him getting better than that... if he was 22 or 23 i could see the argument... he is 26...

It will be interesting to see how he does this year... probably a good topic around the half way point in the season...

Vinylman
07-26-2012, 01:07 PM
What does that have to do with anything? Are you trying to downplay the success Houston had in that series? If Yao hadn't gotten injured, it's quite possible the Lakers don't get past Houston.

wow... your memory of the series is WAY OFF ... the thing that gave the Lakers trouble was Yao going out... not Yao in the games... Yao slowed the Houston offensive game down which is always what the Lakers want... him going out totally flipped the switch on that series...

If Yao played that entire series it would have probably been over in 5 or 6...

Now if McGrady had played it would be a different conversation but to ignore the fact that the Lakers wanted to run Yao in transition to wear him out and make him less effective on the offensive end is to defy reality...

anyways, no need to debate.... the Lakers won the series and the chip...

Laker fans are focused on results not woulda coulda shoulda's ... if we did we would point out all the injuries each laker team had when losing in the finals in the 80s :D

mightybosstone
07-26-2012, 01:17 PM
Patterson > Scola at this point. Much better rebounder and defender. He can score but in different ways other than the mid range jumper. Next to Asik he will flourish.
As a Rockets fan, I still think this argument is full of crap. I like Patterson, but he's a role player at best, whereas Scola could legitimately be a solid No. 3 on a contending team.


so now the question is .... is a guy who provides 6/10/2 worth $8.3 million a year? I don't think he is you obviously do... as for him getting better than that... if he was 22 or 23 i could see the argument... he is 26...
Ben Wallace was a career 7/11/2 player who won DPOY four times. Was he worth $8 million a year in his prime? You bet your *** he was. And I'm not saying that Asik is anywhere near the defender that a prime Ben was, but I think really good defensive bigs are extremely hard to come by in the NBA, especially ones who can provide solid rebounding and shot blocking to go with it.

No doubt he will be a liability on the offensive end, but if Asik becomes a top five defensive center in the NBA as a starter (which I think he can be), then $8 million will seem like a bargain regardless of how many points he puts up. Also, consider what the going rate is for a starting center in the NBA and $8 million a year doesn't seem that bad at all.

MadBomber
07-26-2012, 01:18 PM
no

mightybosstone
07-26-2012, 01:30 PM
wow... your memory of the series is WAY OFF ... the thing that gave the Lakers trouble was Yao going out... not Yao in the games... Yao slowed the Houston offensive game down which is always what the Lakers want... him going out totally flipped the switch on that series... If Yao played that entire series it would have probably been over in 5 or 6...
Yeah, that's completely debatable. Yao put up a monster 28/10/2 game in game one, which Houston won 100-92. He also had 19/14/2/2 in game three before he got hurt.


Now if McGrady had played it would be a different conversation but to ignore the fact that the Lakers wanted to run Yao in transition to wear him out and make him less effective on the offensive end is to defy reality...McGrady was already a shell of himself at that point, so I don't think he would have made a difference. But to "ignore the fact" that Yao averaged 20/11/1 in that series before he got hurt is to "defy reality."

EDUTEXANS
07-26-2012, 03:02 PM
Patterson > Scola at this point. Much better rebounder and defender. He can score but in different ways other than the mid range jumper. Next to Asik he will flourish.

I'm not ready to say it, Scola is still a better player even with no defense

but if you think about it, Jones, Motiejunas and Patterson > Scola

rhino17
07-26-2012, 03:39 PM
wow... your memory of the series is WAY OFF ... the thing that gave the Lakers trouble was Yao going out... not Yao in the games... Yao slowed the Houston offensive game down which is always what the Lakers want... him going out totally flipped the switch on that series...

If Yao played that entire series it would have probably been over in 5 or 6...

Now if McGrady had played it would be a different conversation but to ignore the fact that the Lakers wanted to run Yao in transition to wear him out and make him less effective on the offensive end is to defy reality...

anyways, no need to debate.... the Lakers won the series and the chip...

Laker fans are focused on results not woulda coulda shoulda's ... if we did we would point out all the injuries each laker team had when losing in the finals in the 80s :D

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The Lakers are soooo Lucky that the Rockets were so injured that year. With even ONE of any of the 3 Rockets out were playing, Houston wins the series

Patterson > Scola at this point. Much better rebounder and defender. He can score but in different ways other than the mid range jumper. Next to Asik he will flourish.

Patterson is a piece of crap.

alexander_37
07-26-2012, 03:54 PM
Patterson had a sophmore slump but he could still be a solid starter.

Many players have a sophmore slump, and the fact that he had a total new team in his second year and was in limbo about his possible position. Ill give him a pass on last seasons. This year is pretty much make or break.

8kobe24
07-26-2012, 04:50 PM
Good enough to not be in the lottery, but not good enough to make the playoffs.

mightybosstone
07-26-2012, 04:59 PM
Good enough to not be in the lottery, but not good enough to make the playoffs.

Lol. You realize that's impossible, right? If you don't make the playoffs, you're automatically in the lottery.

Nycbball08
07-26-2012, 05:18 PM
Oh most definitely, they should win the chip with those 2...:facepalm:

Chronz
07-26-2012, 05:48 PM
That doesnt mean they ignore anything. That means they are extrapolating to get a sense of his productivity with more minutes. Whats truly dumb is looking at per game averages and basing your opinion of that player solely on that.


Again, what makes you think they are ignoring anything? Couldnt people say the same thing to you for ignoring that players tend to play better as starters with freedom of minutes?


Pretty sure nobody has ever claimed he would be a net positive player offensively, in fact Im pretty sure most smart fans realize that because if you look at his per minute numbers, usage, and efficiency, you dont see a player who would be plus offensively. Ive only seen people comment on his awesome defensive impact.


Its better than referencing per game averages as if those will happen, they wont. And what statistical studies are you basing this opinion on, who are you to say they wont any more than them saying they will? Isnt there some middle ground where we can agree they will be within a certain approximation of those stats?

The Classic PSD bait and switch...

Please provide a single instance where i quoted per game individual statistics... go ahead... keep looking... didn't find anything... thats what i thought...

so please do not try and make this a discussion of per game vs advance stats...

i have never said that PER36 stats should be ignored... in fact, i have always said they should be used as a guide and one component of evaluating a players potential... However, the sample size on Asik is very small so i do not believe it is reasonable to extrapolate his actuals when he plays less than half of the PER36...

now, i will play along and point out something that should troubling for those statisticians who rely primarily on AS/PER36 ...

One of the primary arguments on here is that his rebounding is exceptional and WILL translate on a per36 basis / TRB%... I seriously doubt that and will use statistics to prove it....

Asik was forced to start during the playoffs and play extended minutes... what happened to his rebound rate? it went from 20.1 during the season to 11.9 during the playoffs... his Rebounds per36 went from 13.0 to 7.9

One might ask why this happened... was it because he played against frontline players and not back ups? Was it a conditioning issue? I don't know but the STATS show that extrapolating his numbers doesn't work when he actually plays the minutes...

sample size works both ways so please no red herrings...
Where did I say you did any of that? Im only stating facts.

Again, what basis is there for your opinion to carry more weight? A single series says nothing because that can happen to anyone, look at Blake Griffin and how his rebounding suffered. Why did you ignore my questions?

Do you have something more substantial?

WhiteSoxGod
07-26-2012, 06:58 PM
LOL ha ha ha ha. Some people are so stupid. I weep for our future as a nation. "The Leaders of Tomorrow are the Morons of Today"....sad.

Verbal Christ
07-26-2012, 07:22 PM
I wonder how many of these experts and critics will man up and admit they were wrong next year. Going on 4 years that the PSD community said the rockets would be the worst team in the league only to tuck tail and run when it doesn't happen. Funnier yet how fans of teams with storied pasts want to degrade another teams accomplishments.

PSD where staying classy happens.

WhiteSoxGod
07-26-2012, 08:57 PM
I wonder how many of these experts and critics will man up and admit they were wrong next year. Going on 4 years that the PSD community said the rockets would be the worst team in the league only to tuck tail and run when it doesn't happen. Funnier yet how fans of teams with storied pasts want to degrade another teams accomplishments.

PSD where staying classy happens.

The funny thing is that when Mchale and Olajuwon help Asik enhance his offensive efficiency, Lin plays well within McHale's scheme, and Motijunas starts stroking it as the ROY then it will speak for themselves.

What is awesome is that with no Dwight Howard trade we will have a ton of assets plus a ton of salary cap space to sign 2 MAX deals next summer without losing any of this collection Morey has amassed.

Morey is building a team that can contend for many years not just one year..maybe. I love this offseason for the Rockets. Usually restricted free agents don;t change teams. Morey successfully purged 2 from their teams.

Verbal Christ
07-27-2012, 08:32 AM
The funny thing is that when Mchale and Olajuwon help Asik enhance his offensive efficiency, Lin plays well within McHale's scheme, and Motijunas starts stroking it as the ROY then it will speak for themselves.

What is awesome is that with no Dwight Howard trade we will have a ton of assets plus a ton of salary cap space to sign 2 MAX deals next summer without losing any of this collection Morey has amassed.

Morey is building a team that can contend for many years not just one year..maybe. I love this offseason for the Rockets. Usually restricted free agents don;t change teams. Morey successfully purged 2 from their teams.

Pretty much summed it up. Not really sure what provoked the rocket bashing. The resident trolls on this thread can't provide anything more than subjective opinions and end up pulling the "if Michael Jordan doesn't retire" horseshit. LOL. Stomping feet and crossing arms.

Gandalf
07-27-2012, 08:40 AM
Rockets are a very underrated team they also made the playoffs last year without them i think they will be the 8th or 7th seed in the west

keetyweedy
07-27-2012, 11:57 AM
Rockets are a very underrated team they also made the playoffs last year without them i think they will be the 8th or 7th seed in the west

I dont know what you been watching but the rockets haven't made the playoffs in 3 yrs:laugh2:

dh144498
07-27-2012, 12:49 PM
yes. Lin will lead them to 5 titles. Asik is the next Hakeem and Lin is the next Magic Johnson.

we're witnessing history being made :worthy:

WhiteSoxGod
07-27-2012, 01:08 PM
Pretty much summed it up. Not really sure what provoked the rocket bashing. The resident trolls on this thread can't provide anything more than subjective opinions and end up pulling the "if Michael Jordan doesn't retire" horseshit. LOL. Stomping feet and crossing arms.

It would be different if Morey consistently reached for players; signed or traded for players that were overrated/overpaid. Morey has consistently spent the Rockets money wisely.

This is his forte, he is a numbers guy so I trust his ability to determine if Asik and Lin are worth their money. He is building a young athletic team. Houston has always been a hard working team doing it with players that people scoffed at.

The fact is the Rockets are building the foundation of a future. The problem is the same one the Rockets have had for years and if you're a Rocket fan you know the problem well and know what is coming. The problem is the Rockets are 1 SUPERSTAR away. You need that to win games. Now the Rockets have a chance to get 2 to add to a lineup filled with tough young athletic players.

So keep sleeping on Houston, we like it better that way anyway.

ddhulett
07-27-2012, 01:27 PM
They had a better team last year

WhiteSoxGod
07-27-2012, 01:53 PM
They had a better team last year

I disagree, I think Donatas Motiejunas is better than any player they had last year, including Luis Scola. I think he is going to come in and shock some people. I think Lin will fit better with the McHale system than Dragic or Lowry. I think Asik is more athletic and youthful than Camby. I think this team is more versatile and can be dynamic if given the right parameters.

mightybosstone
07-27-2012, 02:18 PM
I disagree, I think Donatas Motiejunas is better than any player they had last year, including Luis Scola. I think he is going to come in and shock some people. I think Lin will fit better with the McHale system than Dragic or Lowry. I think Asik is more athletic and youthful than Camby. I think this team is more versatile and can be dynamic if given the right parameters.

Dude.... Do you really believe that this team as currently constructed is better than last year's? It's possible that on opening day, Houston's most seasoned starter could be Chandler Parsons. He has started more games combined than Lin, Asik and all of the rookies on this roster. And that's pretty scary.

I'll admit that I love the future of this team and all of the potential the rookies showed in the Summer League. But I don't think they have a chance in hell of matching last year's record baring some sort of miracle season from one or two of the rookies.

alexander_37
07-27-2012, 03:33 PM
I disagree, I think Donatas Motiejunas is better than any player they had last year, including Luis Scola. I think he is going to come in and shock some people. I think Lin will fit better with the McHale system than Dragic or Lowry. I think Asik is more athletic and youthful than Camby. I think this team is more versatile and can be dynamic if given the right parameters.

Agreed with all but Motie. He may be the most offensively gifted. But I don;t think he will be the most productive.

ddhulett
07-27-2012, 03:55 PM
I disagree, I think Donatas Motiejunas is better than any player they had last year, including Luis Scola. I think he is going to come in and shock some people. I think Lin will fit better with the McHale system than Dragic or Lowry. I think Asik is more athletic and youthful than Camby. I think this team is more versatile and can be dynamic if given the right parameters.

Some good points but like mightybosstone said this team is very inexperienced. That's why the average age of NBA championship teams is 28 years of age. They might have a good building block but no experience and to me no dynamic player that will change the game completely unless Lin can do it again.

EDUTEXANS
07-27-2012, 05:55 PM
Dude.... Do you really believe that this team as currently constructed is better than last year's? It's possible that on opening day, Houston's most seasoned starter could be Chandler Parsons. He has started more games combined than Lin, Asik and all of the rookies on this roster. And that's pretty scary.

I'll admit that I love the future of this team and all of the potential the rookies showed in the Summer League. But I don't think they have a chance in hell of matching last year's record baring some sort of miracle season from one or two of the rookies.

well to be fair, injuries killed us last year, Lowry got hurt while playing the best ball in his life and Martin lost half of the season. We also didn't have Camby until the deadline.

and by the way, liked the new look doctor who

brandt
07-27-2012, 05:56 PM
Do these moves turn them into a team that can make noise in the west????

If you are asking if they can make noise in the West this next season, then that's a dumb question! I garantee you that not only the Rockets management doesn't think they will win this year, but neither do the fans including me. The point of signing them wasn't to win this year, it was to make them better in the future.

WhiteSoxGod
07-27-2012, 06:03 PM
Dude.... Do you really believe that this team as currently constructed is better than last year's? It's possible that on opening day, Houston's most seasoned starter could be Chandler Parsons. He has started more games combined than Lin, Asik and all of the rookies on this roster. And that's pretty scary.

I'll admit that I love the future of this team and all of the potential the rookies showed in the Summer League. But I don't think they have a chance in hell of matching last year's record baring some sort of miracle season from one or two of the rookies.

I really think this team has the potential to be better than last years. I am probably biggest Donatas Motiejunas fan in this country. I saw him play when he was 16 on vacation over-seas. I considered it an answered prayer when we wound up with him. I think he will be the rookie of the year and add a lot of offensive production.

I think Jeremy Lamb and Royce White will be huge contributors in the way that Budinger was last year. We still have Kevin Martin and I think Asik adds a huge defensive prescense. I like the way Asik and Lin fit together on paper. Yes I think the Rockets will finish with a winning record. Playoffs? Maybe not but we will match and maybe up our record from last year, Book it.


Agreed with all but Motie. He may be the most offensively gifted. But I don;t think he will be the most productive.

He will be Rookie of the Year.

WhiteSoxGod
07-29-2012, 12:49 AM
We could use another SG though unless we plan to keep Kevin Martin all-season but I can't see that happening. He has a $14 million expiring contract.

sventhedog
07-29-2012, 07:12 AM
of course. linsanity>anything. lol.

WhiteSoxGod
07-29-2012, 12:18 PM
of course. linsanity>anything. lol.

I think Lin will be fine in Houston. What I want to see is the interaction between Lin-Aik-Motijunas.

bearadonisdna
07-29-2012, 02:57 PM
Ok.
Lin
Martin
Delfino
Pf i dont know
Asik

Thats a respectable lineup.

EDUTEXANS
07-29-2012, 05:09 PM
delfino?

WhiteSoxGod
07-29-2012, 06:05 PM
delfino?

Yeah apparently the Rockets are interested in bringing in Carlos Delfino.

bearadonisdna
07-29-2012, 09:47 PM
I read the are gonna sign delfino.

WhiteSoxGod
07-29-2012, 10:55 PM
I read the are gonna sign delfino.

They offered him a contract but nothing official.

eternal slumber
07-29-2012, 11:19 PM
Pretty much summed it up. Not really sure what provoked the rocket bashing. The resident trolls on this thread can't provide anything more than subjective opinions and end up pulling the "if Michael Jordan doesn't retire" horseshit. LOL. Stomping feet and crossing arms.

i know the answer to this question buddy, Jeremy Lin. :clap:

WhiteSoxGod
07-29-2012, 11:29 PM
Remember this: "Omer Asik ranked 6th overall in the league in rebound rate this past season, 5th overall in offensive rebound rate, and excelled in every single defensive metric that exists. Heís a bouncy, instinctive, rangy 7-foot defensive stopper who hasnít even entered his basketball prime"

He is going to make strides with the Rockets. The Bulls will be highly upset they lost him.

http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/film-session-omer-asik

This shows and breaks down why and how Asik is dominating defensively. I mean the guy has a nice 7-2 wingspan. He is agile and has great size. He also comes without all the drama Dwight or Bynum would bring.

bearadonisdna
07-29-2012, 11:33 PM
i know the answer to this question buddy, Jeremy Lin. :clap:

Also because of a guy whos name starts with wavey crockett

I Rock Shaqs
07-29-2012, 11:40 PM
Kendrick Perkins... that is all.

KniCks4LiFe
07-29-2012, 11:57 PM
Remember this: "Omer Asik ranked 6th overall in the league in rebound rate this past season, 5th overall in offensive rebound rate, and excelled in every single defensive metric that exists. Heís a bouncy, instinctive, rangy 7-foot defensive stopper who hasnít even entered his basketball prime"

He is going to make strides with the Rockets. The Bulls will be highly upset they lost him.

http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/film-session-omer-asik

This shows and breaks down why and how Asik is dominating defensively. I mean the guy has a nice 7-2 wingspan. He is agile and has great size. He also comes without all the drama Dwight or Bynum would bring.

that's what I've been saying. You know it's funny they were the ones who had Gortat, and people in the league see him special, and here Houston does it's homework again and chose Asik. This is a great post btw. Thanks for that read up homie.:cool:

Faberg
07-30-2012, 12:40 AM
Remember this: "Omer Asik ranked 6th overall in the league in rebound rate this past season, 5th overall in offensive rebound rate, and excelled in every single defensive metric that exists. He’s a bouncy, instinctive, rangy 7-foot defensive stopper who hasn’t even entered his basketball prime"

He is going to make strides with the Rockets. The Bulls will be highly upset they lost him.

http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/film-session-omer-asik

This shows and breaks down why and how Asik is dominating defensively. I mean the guy has a nice 7-2 wingspan. He is agile and has great size. He also comes without all the drama Dwight or Bynum would bring.

I doubt that. They'll miss him but not that much when Asik is getting $25M with a poison pill in year 3. Chicago foresaw Osik's departure when they drafted PF Nikola Mirotić last year and stuck him overseas. Also, it made sense when Taj Gibson is due for an extension.

WhiteSoxGod
07-30-2012, 02:15 AM
I doubt that. They'll miss him but not that much when Asik is getting $25M with a poison pill in year 3. Chicago foresaw Osik's departure when they drafted PF Nikola Mirotić last year and stuck him overseas. Also, it made sense when Taj Gibson is due for an extension.

It's going to hurt them this year. Bulls pride themselves on their defense. Only time will tell how much the Bulls feel his departure.

Steelers23_06
07-30-2012, 02:43 AM
idk if they are gonna win but they are going to make truck loads of straight cash from this. rockets arent dumb...after seeing the type of money yao brought in it only made sense for them to sign Lin. yao ming set the all star votes record with 2,558,278 in 2005. you have to think an entire asian fan base will adore him and america looks at him as the nba tebow so if he puts up decent numbers lets just say 15 ppg 7 apg and HOU is around .500 i think he will be an all-star and top 5 in jerseys sold. look at when yao played yi the game was watched by over 200 million people in China. thats a lot of effing people. imagine if they somehow coaxed yao out of retirement, HOU would make more then MIA, LAL, and BOS combined. From a basketball stand point who knows but from a business stand point...:clap:

Steelers23_06
07-30-2012, 02:46 AM
Yeah apparently the Rockets are interested in bringing in Carlos Delfino.

your sig definitely got a "sig of the week award" from Mr. 23_06...good stuff

Utd7
07-30-2012, 10:12 AM
Yes they are more relevant. I mean they're playing on National TV this season.

Punk
07-30-2012, 10:19 AM
3 national TV games (and counting) vs 1 National TV game last year. I'd say Lin made them a bit relevant. They will probably still be worst in the West though.

Vinylman
07-30-2012, 10:35 AM
This thread is gonna be so awesome to bump around Xmas :clap:

Frozenred
07-30-2012, 10:58 AM
They got worse...

WhiteSoxGod
07-30-2012, 11:10 AM
3 national TV games (and counting) vs 1 National TV game last year. I'd say Lin made them a bit relevant. They will probably still be worst in the West though.

You really think they're the worst team in the West? Why?


They got worse...

How so? Please explain.

EDUTEXANS
07-30-2012, 03:13 PM
Yeah apparently the Rockets are interested in bringing in Carlos Delfino.

I know that, I posted on the rockets' offseason thread, but I doubt it happens, but what I meant, he ain't gonna start, he would be like our 2nd backup

jam
07-30-2012, 04:44 PM
Punk is the most delusional of the uber-delusional knicks fans. He thought the knicks were going to win a championship last season. He's started threads saying the knicks have the best defense in the league, are going to win a championship this season etc. He hugs carmelo's nuts.

He also had a jeremy lin avatar until DumbDolan got punked by Morey.



You really think they're the worst team in the West? Why?



How so? Please explain.

jam
08-02-2012, 01:06 AM
Go f--- yourself. You're just about the dumbest troll here, along with chronz and justinuum.


kewl story...

irrelevant to my point but pretty fascinating... :rolleyes:

Your inability to understand how role players can have success in one system and not another proves you don't understand basketball nor the NBA in general

can't wait for the season so we can all take a gander at asik's per36 stats.

I gotta an idea... how about you stop talking in generalities and put some numbers out there you can be accountable for...

Are his PER36 numbers gonna improve or decline?

I don't expect a response because i am sure you are part of the current US culture that doesn't focus on results but rather just likes to hear themself talk :D

Kashmir13579
08-02-2012, 01:41 AM
Yes.

DitchDat
08-02-2012, 05:01 AM
So many pieces but I don't see it.

alexander_37
08-02-2012, 10:10 AM
3 national TV games (and counting) vs 1 National TV game last year. I'd say Lin made them a bit relevant. They will probably still be worst in the West though.

If NY had the best defense last year wouldn't Houston now?

Lin drtg 101 felton 109
Kevin Martin 109 JR Smith 106
Parsons 105 Carmello Anthony last season was 102 but still has a career average of 107 we will see

Patrick Patterson 107 Amar'e 101 again has a career average of 109 we'll see
Asik 92 Chandler 99

So Rockets 514 Kicks 517 :eyebrow:

So if the knicks did have the best defense in the nba who does now. That's with Martin on our squad arguable one of the worst defenders in the league.

DWhiteTheTruth
08-02-2012, 10:35 AM
Rockets are certainly relevant... they play on Christmas now lol

JordansBulls
08-02-2012, 12:34 PM
No they lost Scola.

futureman
08-02-2012, 02:24 PM
Rockets have got much worse. I give their offseason an F.

alexander_37
08-02-2012, 03:24 PM
Rockets have got much worse. I give their offseason an F.

For fantastic....

They have the best future out of any team besides the t-wolves and Thunder.

Vinylman
08-02-2012, 04:08 PM
Go f--- yourself. You're just about the dumbest troll here, along with chronz and justinuum.

ahhhhhhhhhh .... baby needs a diaper change


:laugh::laugh::laugh: