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View Full Version : 90s Playoffs Sonic Conference: 4. Amsterdam vs 5. Austin



NYKalltheway
07-22-2012, 02:45 PM
Welcome to the 90s redraft from the Knicks forum. This game involves players who have featured at any game between 1989-90 season until 1999-2000 season and players should be judged on their primes and not their 90s career.

Amsterdam

Depth Chart
C: Tree Rollins | Mike Gminski
PF: Kevin Garnet Caldwell Jones
SF: Kiki Vandeweghe | Purvis Short
SG: Byron Scott | Paul Pressey | Tim Legler
PG: Kevin Johnson | Michael Adams | Damon Jones

Austin

PG: Magic Johnson/Scott Skiles/Michael Williams
SG: Nick Anderson/Jeff Malone/David Wesley
SF: Jamal Mashburn/Michael Dickerson
PF: Derrick Coleman/Clifford T. Robinson
C: Bill Cartwright/Shawn Bradley

Toastyy
07-22-2012, 07:20 PM
Magic>kg

Aust
07-22-2012, 07:22 PM
I'll go with my name

PatsSoxKnicks
07-22-2012, 10:55 PM
Magic>kg

Watch a basketball game :rolleyes:. It's not 1 on 1, its 5 on 5. Other than PG, Amsterdam is superior from 2-4 with us having a 2 time All-defensive team C in Tree Rollins to slow down Cartwright.

I'll get into why we should win more later since I have to go right now.

Toastyy
07-23-2012, 11:42 AM
Watch a basketball game :rolleyes:. It's not 1 on 1, its 5 on 5. Other than PG, Amsterdam is superior from 2-4 with us having a 2 time All-defensive team C in Tree Rollins to slow down Cartwright.

I'll get into why we should win more later since I have to go right now.

Yeah but magic was a laker. /thread

NYKalltheway
07-23-2012, 02:46 PM
this one is pretty close

King41
07-23-2012, 03:21 PM
i would go with magic

PatsSoxKnicks
07-24-2012, 12:19 PM
Yeah but magic was a laker. /thread


i would go with magic

Its douches like you two that makes all the GMs feel voting shouldn't take place in the NBA Forum. Stick to your coloring books and don't vote on these threads since you seem to have no basic understanding of basketball. Basketball is played 5 on 5, not 1 on 1.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-24-2012, 01:08 PM
As for why our team should win, I'll do a quick explanation:

On offense, we have KG who most everyone should know. The one thing about KG teams is that they ALWAYS play great defense. He's such a great leader on the court that he demands his teammates to play D. We saw this with the evolution of Paul Pierce and Ray Allen, 2 guys who didn't play much D before KG arrived. After, PP has become quite the defender and even Ray is pretty decent himself. So our team WILL play defense. Not only do we have KG, but we have Tree Rollins, who is a 2 time All-defensive team player. Between him and KG, they will anchor the paint and deter teams from attacking the hoop. For backcourt defense, we have Paul Pressey who will come off the bench. He made 2 first team All-defense (85, 86) and was selected to the 2nd team All-D in 87. He will be our primary 6th man and will come off the bench to provide D. However, he was also considered to be one of the first Point Fowards in NBA history and we'll use him as one of the primary playmakers off our bench (he averaged 14.3ppg-5rpg-7.8apg in his best year).

Offensively, we have surrounded KG with some excellent firepower. The most unheralded guy out of our bunch might be Kiki, who was one of only 9 players (and 17 different seasons) to average at least 29 ppg and have a TS% of at least 60%. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=ts_pct&c1comp=gt&c1val=.60&c2stat=pts_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=29&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws) That's quite impressive. Simply put, Kiki could score. He also stretches the floor for us (and KG) having led the NBA in 3pt% in 86-87. We sort of look at him as our Pierce type player, except in Kiki's prime/peak, he scored more and more efficiently than Pierce did in his prime.

Next, we also have Byron Scott, who if you know basketball, was on the championship Lakers teams. He, along with KG, brings the championship experience to our team. And in fact, he led the 87-88 Lakers team that won the ship in scoring (also finished 2nd on the team in Win Shares, ahead of Worthy and a very very old Kareem and continued his play in the postseason). From a basketball standpoint, Scott also spaces the floor for us. He led the NBA in 3pt% in 84-85 and is a career 37% 3pt shooter. Between him and Kiki, they can space the floor for both KG and KJ.

Finally, we have Kevin Johnson as our PG, who in his prime was a legitimate #2 option. He was on the Suns team that made the Finals and was the #2 option behind Barkley. In his 3 best peak years, he averaged 20ppg and 10apg. In fact, KJ is one of only 9 players (and 21 seasons) to average 20ppg and 10apg. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=ast_per_g&c2comp=gt&c2val=10&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws) And he did this 3 times (others were Magic, Oscar, CP3, Deron, Isiah, Tim Hardaway, Tiny, and Michael Adams, who btw is on our team...). KJ is a slasher who should have room to operate since Kiki, Byron and KG all space the floor. And the Pick and Roll with KG and KJ will be especially deadly.

As for our bench, we have a deadly bench. As mentioned above, Michael Adams is one of only 9 players to average 20ppg and 10apg in a season. And he's our backup. So he can come in and distribute almost as well as KJ. And with Pressey on the bench, there should be lots of ball movement on our bench. Legler and Damon Jones provide excellent 3 point shooting off our bench. In fact Legler is one of the top 10 career 3pt% shooters. We also have a great bench defensive big in Caldwell Jones, who was selected to 2 All-Defensive First teams. Mike Gminski provides us with some scoring and rebounding- in his best year he averaged a double double (16-10). Purvis Short rounds out our bench. From 84-86, he finished in the top 10 in the league in points per game, finishing 4th in 85 (averaging 28+ ppg) and 5th in 86. It certainly helps to be able to bring someone off your bench who averaged 28+ ppg in his best season.

As for why we'd win this matchup, we feel we have the advantage at SG, SF and PF. And while Magic is easily one of the top 5 greatest players to ever play, we at least have a PG who is capable of coming close to Magic in KJ, a fringe top 50 player of all-time. Austin can't say the same as Derrick Coleman would be thoroughly outclassed by KG.

In addition, who is Austin's #2 option? Mashburn? That is an underwhelming #2 option. We feel that while Magic may be the best player, we definitely have the better team. Asking Magic to carry Austin on his own is just to much to ask for, especially when going up against a team that has clear advantages at 3 positions with Center being a wash basically (Cartwright vs. Tree isn't deciding this matchup....). As mentioned earlier, our offense is explosive with excellent spacing and we have an excellent defensive squad. Meanwhile, we also feel KG could exploit the Coleman-Cartwright frontcourt. While Magic is better than KJ, he won't be able to exploit KJ the way KG would be able to exploit Austin's frontcourt. Also, while Mashburn is a nice player, Kiki was one of the most efficient great scorers the league has seen (link above). And Byron Scott is simply better than Nick Anderson, as Scott brings championship experience as well as overall quality.

Magic is a great player but 1 man can't beat a great team, even one as great as Magic (and he certainly had help in all of his championship runs, way more than Austin is giving him). Meanwhile, our team is pretty similar to the Celts that won the ship with their big 3. Kiki gets the Pierce role, except in his prime, Kiki was an even better scorer while Scott fills the Allen role (not as good as Ray but he can at least somewhat replicate what Ray brings). And we have KJ, who is much much better than Rondo. Finally, Tree plays the Perk role, only better. Amsterdam is basically a steroided up version of the 08 Celtics, which won the championship while Austin is nowhere even close to replicating the talent any of Magic's teams had.

KnicksorBust
07-24-2012, 01:32 PM
Amsterdam has a great offense / defense balance. Prime KJ may not slow down Magic but he could score. Coleman vs. KG is a huge edge that decides it for me.

BSardogan
07-24-2012, 01:47 PM
Amsterdam. Homer vote.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-24-2012, 01:47 PM
Amsterdam has a great offense / defense balance. Prime KJ may not slow down Magic but he could score. Coleman vs. KG is a huge edge that decides it for me.

Yup. Are you waiting to vote?

KnicksorBust
07-24-2012, 01:49 PM
No I voted.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-24-2012, 01:54 PM
No I voted.

Yeah now I see it.

mightybosstone
07-24-2012, 02:25 PM
My team was so much better than Austin that it's not even funny.... :sigh:

PatsSoxKnicks
07-24-2012, 02:31 PM
My team was so much better than Austin that it's not even funny.... :sigh:

So uh, you're commenting in the thread but not voting :(

NYKalltheway
07-24-2012, 08:48 PM
more votes here please :nod:

PatsSoxKnicks
07-24-2012, 11:17 PM
bump

PatsSoxKnicks
07-25-2012, 06:14 AM
vote! and read my write-up ;)

PatsSoxKnicks
07-25-2012, 11:45 AM
bump

Catfish1314
07-25-2012, 01:20 PM
Garnett is the difference maker for me. I think Amsterdam is better equipped to counter Magic than Austin is KG.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-25-2012, 01:45 PM
Garnett is the difference maker for me. I think Amsterdam is better equipped to counter Magic than Austin is KG.

Yeah, so are you also waiting to vote?

Baller1
07-25-2012, 01:47 PM
Amsterdam, quite easily for me.

Catfish1314
07-25-2012, 01:54 PM
Yeah, so are you also waiting to vote?

I play winner.

mightybosstone
07-25-2012, 04:46 PM
So uh, you're commenting in the thread but not voting :(

Sorry, buddy. I obviously voted for Amsterdam. They are the superior basketball team and the KJ/KG duo with Kiki's scoring is just pure sex. That team could go far. Aside from Magic, Austin's team is extremely underwhelming.

(Although I recall a certain commissioner not voting in certain matchups in the superhero re-draft despite multiple comments... ;))

NYKalltheway
07-25-2012, 08:04 PM
very close race, close to the finish line too

PatsSoxKnicks
07-26-2012, 04:08 PM
Sorry, buddy. I obviously voted for Amsterdam. They are the superior basketball team and the KJ/KG duo with Kiki's scoring is just pure sex. That team could go far. Aside from Magic, Austin's team is extremely underwhelming.

(Although I recall a certain commissioner not voting in certain matchups in the superhero re-draft despite multiple comments... ;))

Yeah I believe the matchups where I was facing the next team I didn't vote in (the first round I voted since I didn't know who I'd face). Didn't want to seem/be biased one way or another. Probably a silly idea but for whatever reason, thats what I did then.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-26-2012, 04:10 PM
Also, isn't it past noon? So did I win this matchup?