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View Full Version : Could you be convinced that Landry Fields was an MVP caliber player?



Chronz
07-19-2012, 09:22 PM
His rookie year?

Would any amount of scientific data sway your opinion?

Why or why not?

Aust
07-19-2012, 09:22 PM
Show me the numbers.

Losoway
07-19-2012, 09:22 PM
pass the bath salt

LA_Raiders
07-19-2012, 09:24 PM
pass the bath salt

lol

justinnum1
07-19-2012, 09:25 PM
pass the bath salt

this

black1605
07-19-2012, 09:25 PM
pass the bath salt

And a dollar bill.

nicegoing
07-19-2012, 09:26 PM
If you're point is that his rookie season is better than Kobe's or something like that I will laugh.

waveycrockett
07-19-2012, 09:26 PM
Sure if I was on bath salts

xxplayerxx23
07-19-2012, 09:26 PM
he was a good player his rookie year. But not an MVP type player

xxplayerxx23
07-19-2012, 09:27 PM
Sure if I was on bath salts

How Original

Patriotsfan97
07-19-2012, 09:27 PM
pass the bath salt

Hahaha+1. :clap:

greg_ory_2005
07-19-2012, 09:29 PM
Fields will win MVP this year. Book it. :drool:

StarvingKnick22
07-19-2012, 09:30 PM
:laugh2:

StarvingKnick22
07-19-2012, 09:30 PM
only when he leaves the knicks, eh Chronz?

nicegoing
07-19-2012, 09:31 PM
only when he leaves the knicks, eh Chronz?

Shut up, you think everyone is out to get the knicks.

javaid64
07-19-2012, 09:35 PM
no one, i repeat no one know how to bricks shots better than fields, he makes an art out of it, enough to put him in the mvp discusion

Chronz
07-19-2012, 09:36 PM
Show me the numbers.

http://wagesofwins.com/2012/07/04/hey-new-york-knicks-just-give-landry-fields-the-money-already/

According to Wins Produced, he was the 8th most productive player in the league overall.

http://wagesofwins.com/wins-produced/wins-produced-2011/

Chronz
07-19-2012, 09:37 PM
only when he leaves the knicks, eh Chronz?

I know your joking but the evidence I speak of happened the year before this one. Ive just never mentioned it because this isnt a stat I really use. I just want to see if anyone could buy the notion.

StarvingKnick22
07-19-2012, 09:40 PM
Shut up, you think everyone is out to get the knicks.

no, i believe chronz hates the knicks. i recall him saying so.

rwynyc
07-19-2012, 09:41 PM
Fields will win MVP this year. Book it. :drool:

Who is the person in your signature?

nicegoing
07-19-2012, 09:41 PM
http://wagesofwins.com/2012/07/04/hey-new-york-knicks-just-give-landry-fields-the-money-already/

According to Wins Produced, he was the 8th most productive player in the league overall.

http://wagesofwins.com/wins-produced/wins-produced-2011/
Judging by the second list you posted I would say this stat is complete BS.

5ass
07-19-2012, 09:42 PM
And a dollar bill.

and a face to munch on.

StarvingKnick22
07-19-2012, 09:42 PM
Who is the person in your signature?

lol here we go

IndyRealist
07-19-2012, 09:42 PM
http://wagesofwins.com/2012/07/04/hey-new-york-knicks-just-give-landry-fields-the-money-already/

According to Wins Produced, he was the 8th most productive player in the league overall.

http://wagesofwins.com/wins-produced/wins-produced-2011/

#8 in production is not MVP caliber. There are only a couple of real MVP candidates every year. And by Wins Produced, a player generally needs to be above .300 WP48 to be considered an MVP candidate. Note the significant drop off in WP from #4 to #5. That's the difference between subjective and objective ;)

Swashcuff
07-19-2012, 09:42 PM
If a smart person is making the claim I'd take a listen. He would NEVER be able to convince me however.

Donuts365
07-19-2012, 09:43 PM
i try to avoid bait threads but when i cant they landry fileds

StarvingKnick22
07-19-2012, 09:48 PM
i here landry feilds has a hot GF...atleast she wont get prego with his shot.

lamzoka
07-19-2012, 09:52 PM
He wasn't even good enough to win rookie of year. Like that dude said pass that bath salt

Chronz
07-19-2012, 09:57 PM
no, i believe chronz hates the knicks. i recall him saying so.

oh so you werent joking, no I have never said that.

SouthSideRookie
07-19-2012, 10:00 PM
Is this a jab at Knicks fans? :eyebrow:

Chronz
07-19-2012, 10:02 PM
#8 in production is not MVP caliber. There are only a couple of real MVP candidates every year. And by Wins Produced, a player generally needs to be above .300 WP48 to be considered an MVP candidate. Note the significant drop off in WP from #4 to #5. That's the difference between subjective and objective ;)

I see no difference, whos to say what the proper ranking cutoff is for MVP caliber? Would it be so wrong for me to think the games top8 most productive players overall (not per minute in this situation) are all candidates, albeit some weaker than others?

But if it gets anyone's panties in a bunch, then I would change the question to just being a top8 most productive player.

Chronz
07-19-2012, 10:04 PM
If a smart person is making the claim I'd take a listen. He would NEVER be able to convince me however.

Change the claim to a top8 most productive player. And lets say the person has a PhD. Is your willingness to accept his scientific facts still so narrow?


He wasn't even good enough to win rookie of year. Like that dude said pass that bath salt

Thats an award, do you relegate your personal opinion to just awards?

Chronz
07-19-2012, 10:09 PM
Is this a jab at Knicks fans? :eyebrow:

Not at all.

Im just trying to see if people are as stubborn as I am. Lets just say I will be watching the Raptors with extra attentiveness this year. Maybe he is the 2nd coming of Battier, as a player whos mainstream stats undersell his impact.

bucketss
07-19-2012, 10:10 PM
i try to avoid bait threads but when i cant they landry fileds

dude what the hell is this "first you need 100 post" crap all about? please answers

knicks=love
07-19-2012, 10:14 PM
:laugh:

KnicksorBust
07-19-2012, 10:15 PM
I've probably seen more of Landry Fields than anyone on this site. In the right system on an unselfish team, he can be a productive player. A 4th option who plays like a 3rd some nights. On a team with an alpha player (like Carmelo) or in big spots, he wets his pants like a JV kid called up to varsity for the state finals. He's not a spot-up shooter. He actually likes to slash and handle the ball. So on a team where you have Lin-Melo-Amar'e. He shrinks. When Melo and Amar'e were out... and you just have Lin and a bunch of role players, he was able to reach his limitted potential.

He can be a good piece for the Raptors but don't set the bar too high.

KnicksorBust
07-19-2012, 10:17 PM
I should add that his rookie year he only had to deal with Amar'e. They ran some PnR together and Amar'e actually passed the ball to Fields a LOT two years ago. He was able to groove out there. Carmelo completely makes him a useless player. It doesn't make sense but you can sense it on the court. He checks out of the game. It's probably a stain on both of them for that to happen.

JayAllDay
07-19-2012, 10:20 PM
This is the most useless thread that brings absolutely nothing of value except pointless number crunching.

Ebbs
07-19-2012, 10:23 PM
Honestly I don't think from what I have ever seen from him I would think MVP potential. That being said since pretty much day 1 I thought he could be a high end role player.

StarvingKnick22
07-19-2012, 10:34 PM
oh so you werent joking, no I have never said that.

you have implied it hard enough. I'm tired of you, and all the communists who look at a knick fans comment, and assume that is a jab to there team.im tired of people saying you're stupid and an average stupid knick fan when we say, we hope to win a championship or hope to get CP3. When you jerks say the same about your own team. It sucks. It really ****ing sucks.

Ebbs
07-19-2012, 10:35 PM
Are you crying right now^. Seriously your post made you sound like you were weeping

JasonJohnHorn
07-19-2012, 10:43 PM
I would be interested to hear the arguement. Most Valuable Player? That season? More valuable than any other player in the league? I mean, the team got swept out of the first round of the playoffs, so regardless of how valuable he was to his own team, he obviously wasn't that valuable if he couldn't even get them one win in the playoffs.

There is a lot that goes into what a MVP is. For example, I believe that there was an arguement for Sam Cassell to be MVP the first year he played with the Clippers. I heard about how his worth ethic was contagious on that team. How during practices, when everybody went on break, he'd keep shooting the ball, and them another player would follow suit, until the whole team was not taking a break. That year the Clippers made the playoffs and I believe won in the first round and then pushed the next series to seven games. And if Cassell hadn't been on that team, they likely wouldn't have even been in the playoffs. Not because of what he did on the court (there were many players who were more productive than he was on the court that year), but what he did for the team in the locker room, and in practice, and how he mentored the younger players and instilled them with confidence and made them believe in themselves. The Clippers did something that year that they hadn't done since they'd been in LA, and Cassell was a huge reason for that. He wasn't even the best player on his team, but he was the most valuable.

I think there are instances like this every season, but my question would be, since Fields on-court productivety was clearly now MVP worthy, what did he do that made that team a playoff team? Would they have been in the playoffs with another player who put up similar stats? I would say yes.

There could be an arguement that could sway me, but I'm waiting to hear what it is before I say yay or nay.

John Walls Era
07-19-2012, 10:46 PM
you have implied it hard enough. I'm tired of you, and all the communists who look at a knick fans comment, and assume that is a jab to there team.im tired of people saying you're stupid and an average stupid knick fan when we say, we hope to win a championship or hope to get CP3. When you jerks say the same about your own team. It sucks. It really ****ing sucks.

need a tissue? maybe a nap?

Ebbs
07-19-2012, 10:54 PM
need a tissue? maybe a nap?

So I wasn't the only one who somewhere thinks this kid is crying hysterically lol

NYKNYGNYY
07-19-2012, 11:03 PM
pass the bath salt

p.o.y

post of the year

StarvingKnick22
07-19-2012, 11:13 PM
Are you crying right now^. Seriously your post made you sound like you were weeping

this is exactly what I'm talking about. And you know what? I was close to crying. What difference does it make? Trash me cause I love my team. I believe it makes your life better. Know that your actions are only bad if you know your intentions are only to hurt others.

greg_ory_2005
07-19-2012, 11:13 PM
Who is the person in your signature?

Isn't it obvious. His name is under the sig. :pity:


It's muh ****in Sean Gregory Mayne.

D-Block21-Chito
07-19-2012, 11:14 PM
Such a dumb thread

BigBlueCrew
07-19-2012, 11:16 PM
Does the OP even realize that this site (whatever the hell it is) just came up with this bogus stat on its own.

b@llhog24
07-19-2012, 11:22 PM
Seems like an aberration to me.

ohreally
07-19-2012, 11:27 PM
Landry should be a solid player at the 3 and in a flowing offense. MVP? For his team, maybe, and then only in a way, but he will be a good, solid, productive player in a number o categories, and smarts is alwys a good thing in an athlete.

Sadds The Gr8
07-19-2012, 11:30 PM
i hope so

blastmasta26
07-19-2012, 11:32 PM
I don't know man, I love me some stats and I love me some rookie Fields but I can't see how he would be one of the most important players in the league. Does this stat have any credibility?

IndyRealist
07-19-2012, 11:52 PM
you have implied it hard enough. I'm tired of you, and all the communists who look at a knick fans comment, and assume that is a jab to there team.im tired of people saying you're stupid and an average stupid knick fan when we say, we hope to win a championship or hope to get CP3. When you jerks say the same about your own team. It sucks. It really ****ing sucks.

Hate to break it to you, but this is not a jab at the Knicks. It's a jab at ME :D

Check out the Moneyball thread.

IndyRealist
07-19-2012, 11:55 PM
Hate to break it to you Chronz, but what you're measuring in this thread is NOT the efficacy of Fields, or the validity of Wins Produced. You're measuring perception. I know you are dead set against it, but I'd really suggest reading the Alvarez article.

Edit: I need to quit starting posts with "Hate to break it to you...." it's getting repetitive.

mvb815
07-20-2012, 12:25 AM
chronz i remember before i joined this site, when i used to lurk, you had an av pic of the most interesting man in the world

i think you should change it back

Chronz
07-20-2012, 12:34 AM
you have implied it hard enough. I'm tired of you, and all the communists who look at a knick fans comment, and assume that is a jab to there team.im tired of people saying you're stupid and an average stupid knick fan when we say, we hope to win a championship or hope to get CP3. When you jerks say the same about your own team. It sucks. It really ****ing sucks.

dont know what your talking about but lets move on

Chronz
07-20-2012, 12:36 AM
Hate to break it to you Chronz, but what you're measuring in this thread is NOT the efficacy of Fields, or the validity of Wins Produced. You're measuring perception. I know you are dead set against it, but I'd really suggest reading the Alvarez article.

Edit: I need to quit starting posts with "Hate to break it to you...." it's getting repetitive.

Hate to break it to you but there was never any confusion on this point.

Chronz
07-20-2012, 12:39 AM
chronz i remember before i joined this site, when i used to lurk, you had an av pic of the most interesting man in the world

i think you should change it back

lulz

I hate to break it to you but for my man crush, I have found a far more interesting individual. Hail the Fassbender.

Hate to break it to you is catching on like wild fire

I Rock Shaqs
07-20-2012, 12:55 AM
bath salts joke is played out and not funny at all.

I Rock Shaqs
07-20-2012, 12:57 AM
this is exactly what I'm talking about. And you know what? I was close to crying. What difference does it make? Trash me cause I love my team. I believe it makes your life better. Know that your actions are only bad if you know your intentions are only to hurt others.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, damn your weak.

RC3
07-20-2012, 12:58 AM
Landry Fields already dissed carmelo. He also said he wants to be an all star someday. I think we are going to see greatness of landry fields. The next john havlicek. :D

Jays Claw
07-20-2012, 01:14 AM
Finding out that Fields was top 8 in wins production in his rookie year baffles me. However, I'm not really sure how credible that stat is. Fields clearly has the potential to be a high-end role player for any team without black holes on offense IMO. Not quite sure about the notion of him being MVP caliber though, Chronz.

GOON MUSIC
07-20-2012, 01:18 AM
Guys, I'm sure he meant MWP Metta World Peace, but then againeven so, you would be way off

PatsSoxKnicks
07-20-2012, 01:20 AM
Is Wins Produced your main selling point? Because I'm pretty sure you know that among the APBR community, most of them all think Wins Produced is a joke of a stat. I know it underwent a significant change but I still think its very low on the list of stats that I'd look at. I'd take PER over WP and PER barely has any defensive component to it.

Now if you're also talking about RAPM, I know he ranked highly in it but I don't think he was at an MVP level.

If he fixes his jump shot, I think he will be an excellent role player.

Cal827
07-20-2012, 01:26 AM
You better be giving me some good crack, crystal meth, and frozen waffles to convince me that Landry Fields deserves MVP.

metsjets2000
07-20-2012, 01:27 AM
Add Content

Six-8-TheWizard
07-20-2012, 01:28 AM
i here landry feilds has a hot GF...atleast she wont get prego with his shot.

:rimshot:

JOhnnyTHaJet
07-20-2012, 01:34 AM
What on earth is this......

StephenP
07-20-2012, 01:35 AM
The Wins Produced stat is the biggest load of horse crap to come along in years.
It overvalues people who do something exceptionally well for their position (Fields rebounds well and has a high shooting percentage for a guard). Check out Jason Kidd's numbers who also rebounds better than most point guards and you'll see it too.
At the same time it undervalues people who do something less well that most at their position. Check out Brook Lopez in 10-11. Because of his low rebounding, even though he averaged over 20 points a game, his wins produced was negative. By that stat they would have been better off with him on the bench while they played with 4 men.

Roses
07-20-2012, 01:39 AM
def. not... your insane for that thought

Chronz
07-20-2012, 02:36 AM
Is Wins Produced your main selling point? Because I'm pretty sure you know that among the APBR community, most of them all think Wins Produced is a joke of a stat. I know it underwent a significant change but I still think its very low on the list of stats that I'd look at. I'd take PER over WP and PER barely has any defensive component to it.

Now if you're also talking about RAPM, I know he ranked highly in it but I don't think he was at an MVP level.

If he fixes his jump shot, I think he will be an excellent role player.
Im with you bro, and its not my selling point. I would love to catch you up on the debate Im having but waiting in line for Dark Knight Rises and then studying for a test in a few hours doesnt give me much time tonight. Check out the Moneyball thread if your interested, but apparently all a stat has to do to be more credible than any of APBR's pet stats is correlate highly with team rates.

Scooby-Doo
07-20-2012, 02:56 AM
Rookie season:

Landry Fields - 9.7 ppg, 5.4 reb, 47.9 % fg, 39.3% 3-pt fg, 1 spg

Kobe Bryant - 7.6 ppg, 1.9 reb, 41.7% fg, 37.5% 3-pt fg, .7 spg

CityofTreez
07-20-2012, 02:58 AM
Landry Fields is going to perform at a high level with DeRozan. I actually got to see Fields play last year and he was excellent. Amare was injured and the ball was moving. 2 players stood out, Shumpert & Fields. It was a dope rotation shump-fields-Melo and Fields was standing out in a great way.

If Toronto can move the rock this year and have DeRozan & Fields slashing, Raptors will be hard to guard. If he improves his jump shot, then he can be in a top 15-20 range with his increased PT. As for MVP, It's just hard to picture him as an MVP candidate. He needs the minutes, which he'll most certainly get. Those minutes will give him a bigger role, and show us something better.

I see him as a future All-Star, not a MVP.

KniCks4LiFe
07-20-2012, 03:36 AM
I think Toronto is going to see a way different Landry Fields. The stark truth is his game tanked when Carmelo Anthony arrived. IDK what Fields can be, but all I would say here is, Donnie Walsh, who is rarely wrong when evaluating talent compared him in his rookie season to John Havlicek. That was Landry Fields' ceiling B.C. We saw that guy again w/ Lin, but then Melo returned and he slowly disappeared.

Evolution23
07-20-2012, 03:41 AM
Landry Fields is one good looking dude and he's funny as hell.

knickfan33
07-20-2012, 03:56 AM
nope. what impressed me most bout his rookie season, was how good his decision making was, he carried himself like a veteran player. but he's no MVP, he's just an upper end of the middle of the pack kinda guy...

dissapears in the playoffs.

IIISSKiLL
07-20-2012, 04:02 AM
He wasn't even good enough to win rookie of year. Like that dude said pass that bath salt

yup

LOOTERX9
07-20-2012, 04:07 AM
The creation of this thread has made me lose all faith in the human race:(

thekmp211
07-20-2012, 04:37 AM
The creation of this thread has made me lose all faith in the human race:(

dont worry, somewhere chronz is laughing at every post like this. he even made a guy cry, that is impressive.

honestly, some of these responses...i just don't even know.

PatsSoxKnicks
07-20-2012, 04:43 AM
Im with you bro, and its not my selling point. I would love to catch you up on the debate Im having but waiting in line for Dark Knight Rises and then studying for a test in a few hours doesnt give me much time tonight. Check out the Moneyball thread if your interested, but apparently all a stat has to do to be more credible than any of APBR's pet stats is correlate highly with team rates.

Yeah I'll check that out and if Berri's stats were so great, why has it been years and he hasn't found a job with an NBA team yet? Idk, I find it hard to take him seriously. I know he understands all the math but from all the retrodictions I've seen, WP never does that well.

Kashmir13579
07-20-2012, 04:50 AM
I see a lot of potential in Landry. Never thought he'd be an all-star. Very high-IQ.

Kashmir13579
07-20-2012, 04:51 AM
When Fields fixes his shot, he'll be nice.

John Walls Era
07-20-2012, 04:56 AM
So I wasn't the only one who somewhere thinks this kid is crying hysterically lol


this is exactly what I'm talking about. And you know what? I was close to crying. What difference does it make? Trash me cause I love my team. I believe it makes your life better. Know that your actions are only bad if you know your intentions are only to hurt others.

:laugh:

If theres tears beginning to fall from your face, its crying. Not close to crying.

thekmp211
07-20-2012, 05:08 AM
to answer your question, no. fields would undoubtedly see his WP plummet were he to somehow find himself a focal point on offense.

but i do think there is value there when evaluating someone like fields in his rookie season, or battier. part of the reason advanced stats are so valuable when correctly applied.

thekmp211
07-20-2012, 05:11 AM
o and whoever made this gaay thred


could u b convinced to suck my big fat balls?

off all the places in the world looking for gay kicks you come to PSD? strange choice

StarvingKnick22
07-20-2012, 07:33 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, damn your weak.

I bet your boyfriend says the same to you lol

StarvingKnick22
07-20-2012, 07:37 AM
o and whoever made this gaay thred


could u b convinced to suck my big fat balls?

Flatbush? Is that you?