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View Full Version : Trevor Hoffman or Mariano Rivera



BlackMage
01-07-2007, 12:16 AM
Alright, I've been curious about what people think about this:

Hoffman and Rivera are arguably 2 of the greatest closers of all time and easily hall of famers. But which is better?

Hoffman: Has devistating offspeed material, 885.1 innings pitched, k/9 rate of 9.8, bb/9 rate of 2.5, career ERA 2.71, h/9 rate of 6.9, hit only 8 batters in his career and given up only 80 home runs, 5 time all star, not a lot of postseason experience but was strictly average in the postseason, 482 saves and counting...

Rivera: Has devistating cutter and is flat out scary, 881.2 innings pitched, k/9 rate of 8, bb/9 rate of 2.3, career ERA 2.29, h/9 rate of 7.1, given up only 45 home runs, 6 time all star, easily greatest postseason closer ever, 413 saves and counting...

Zaunnie
01-07-2007, 12:26 AM
Rivera, because he can do it in the playoffs

IndiansFan337
01-07-2007, 12:43 AM
Rivera, no doubt.

He's been more dominant overall & much better when it matters most - in the playoffs.

Driven
01-07-2007, 12:43 AM
Easily Rivera.

phils phanatic
01-07-2007, 04:27 AM
rivera by far...it comes down to this,bottom 9 1 run lead who would u rather have up to preserve this lead?to me its no doubt mo.most dominant post season pitcher ever,even if he did have a few glitches against papi

blujaysrock
01-07-2007, 05:34 PM
hoffman

Neely
01-07-2007, 09:26 PM
I'd have to go with Ma-Ri even though he is a Yankee. Much better with a nice red B on his hat.

YankeesWin
01-08-2007, 01:06 AM
the sand man himself...the one and only MO. he has proven many times that he can handle pressure and the playoffs, unlike hoffman...ex. failed to save the allstar game.

Derrek Lee
01-08-2007, 08:39 PM
Probably Mariano Rivera. Hoffman's changeup is nasty though.

YankeesWin
01-08-2007, 09:32 PM
Well, Mariano's cutter is nasty too...the best in the game.

BlackMage
01-09-2007, 01:42 AM
Well, Mariano's cutter is nasty too...the best in the game.

Well of course a Yankee's fan would say that :eyebrow:

Just kidding dude. But yeah I agree, MY knees have buckled watching that cutter on tv. When the sandman cometh the game is over, unless its against the Red Sox... how many yankees get a standing ovation in Fenway. In all seriousness, I love Hoffman and think he's often underrated by anyone but San Diego fans, but Mo in the offseason, I can think of no one else I'd want pitching.

Born&RaisedNYY
01-10-2007, 03:53 AM
I'd have to go with Ma-Ri even though he is a Yankee. Much better with a nice red B on his hat.

I have to agree on the first part. Whether he's a Yankee or not. (And I'm glad he is).

I guarantee you the second part will never happen. Ever.

Padres Son
01-10-2007, 03:30 PM
I think it's Mo... but it's a closer comparison than most people think. Outside of San Diego, people don't seem to realize how dominant Hoffy has been.

With Mo, hitters know what's coming and they just can't hit it. Even when they do get a bat on it, it's rare to see a ball leave the infield because his cutter is such a "heavy" pitch.

With Trevor, hitters are left guessing about what's coming. Hoffy uses different speeds to fool hitters. He relies more on the strikeout than Mo because you really don't want to start getting contact outs with a changeup pitcher.

No question, Mo has earned his reputation in the postseason. However it would have been interesting to see if Hoffman had spent his career with a better team. He's pitched a total of 13 postseason innings compared to Mo's 113. It's hard to compare there.

It'd be cool to see them retire in the same year and go to the Hall in the same year.

DefLeppard
01-10-2007, 03:49 PM
Mariano Rivera.

tranman
01-10-2007, 08:07 PM
Rivera, plus he's younger.

Cursed Rangers
01-10-2007, 08:16 PM
This is actually a very good question. Both are two of the best closers of all time. However, I am going to give a slight edge to Hoffman on this one. Mariano is a dominant closer, but I believe if you put Hoffman on the same Yankees teams as Mariano has been on, he would have absolutely incredible numbers. Hoff has put up these numbers while playing on slightly above average teams for most of his career.

deeznutz
01-11-2007, 06:51 AM
definitely MO IMHO. sure hoff has played on teams that have less offensive power as one poster mentioned but when does that ever matter for a closer? the only difference is my MIGHT get more save opportunies...once you get it, your job is to finish the game...your team can put their sticks down. also, i'd like to see a comparision of the number of bats they've broken!...MO's got that stat taken for sure...though his bat sawing ability has decreased quite a bit the last couple of years...

Padres Son
01-11-2007, 07:53 PM
definitely MO IMHO. sure hoff has played on teams that have less offensive power as one poster mentioned but when does that ever matter for a closer? the only difference is my MIGHT get more save opportunies...once you get it, your job is to finish the game...your team can put their sticks down. also, i'd like to see a comparision of the number of bats they've broken!...MO's got that stat taken for sure...though his bat sawing ability has decreased quite a bit the last couple of years...What do broken bats have to do with it? Yeah, Mo breaks a lot of bats, but that has nothing to do with why he's the better pitcher. I doubt Hoffman's ever broken a bat with his changeup. They're two totally different pitchers.

deeznutz
01-11-2007, 08:39 PM
What do broken bats have to do with it? Yeah, Mo breaks a lot of bats, but that has nothing to do with why he's the better pitcher. I doubt Hoffman's ever broken a bat with his changeup. They're two totally different pitchers.

broken bats are a sign of incredible stuff (mo's cutter) and absolute dominance...mo is no doubt the more dominant of the two. also, he generally has faced tougher batters in tighter situations over his career being in the AL East while the padres arent exactly in the toughest division with the best hitters...

ShepzCubbies
01-11-2007, 09:13 PM
Hoffman is one of the best pitchers nobody talks about. But I still gotta go with Rivera. He's been too good for too long in so many different clutch situations.

papipapsmanny
01-20-2007, 06:33 PM
hoffman he has more saves is consistent and is very durable

baseball4ever
12-25-2008, 01:20 PM
hoffman

Hoffman?????? HAHAHAHAHAH He blows when it matters most. He can't hold Rivera's glove in post-season stats. See the post "Favorite reliever" Trevor is a legend in his own mind. Plus he is one UGLY dude.

baseball4ever
12-26-2008, 06:36 AM
Sorry, I'd Have to say Rivera. Yeah Hoffy has more career saves but Rivera is younger and will catch him. Secondly, When Hoffman pitches on a national stage he usually struggles if not blows the save i.e., 98 w.s., all-star game and last years one game playoff against the Brewers when he blew that save in the post season Hoffman can't even carry Rivera's glove.

Now at the present time, Hoffman is a free-agent and it appears no one wants him. I think he is a legend in his own mind, he wants to be "loved" like Tony Gwynn and have a statue of himself out beyond center field like gwynn.
He's acting like a big baby if you ask me. He has gotten caught up in his own hype.

In regular season stats Hoffman has a career e.r.a. of 2.79
In regular season stats Rivera's career e.r.a. is 2.08

Hoffman has pitched in 6 post-season games with 4 saves and a e.r.a. of 3.46
Rivera has closed out 26 post-season games with 34 saves and a e.r.a. of 0.77

But imo, Dennis Eckersley was the most exciting closer to watch. He pitched for 24 years. Almost exactly half was spent as a starter with 197 wins. The other half was as a closer withy 390 saves. If he had spent those 24 years as a starter he would be well over 300 wins and if he had spent those 24 seasons as a closer he would top Hoffman in career saves.

Sorry to digress.

baseball4ever
12-26-2008, 06:40 AM
OOPs Hoffman has pitched in 6 post seasons. not post season games.

Ditto for Mariano, he has pitched in 26 post-seasons not 26 games. the e.r.a.'s are the same though. sorry.

NYY NYJ NYK
12-26-2008, 04:31 PM
Mariano Rivera

Sportfan
12-26-2008, 04:36 PM
mo

friarfan07
12-26-2008, 04:47 PM
lol i thought this was a new thread and was thinking to myself here we go again. :p

just to reiterate my stance, hoffy is the better regular season closer while mo is the best postseason closer in history. it's hard since hoffy hasn't had nearly the opportunities in the playoffs mo has, nor has he ever had close to the talent around him. but yeah, can't really go wrong with either one.

friarfan07
12-26-2008, 04:52 PM
Hoffman?????? HAHAHAHAHAH He blows when it matters most. He can't hold Rivera's glove in post-season stats. See the post "Favorite reliever" Trevor is a legend in his own mind. Plus he is one UGLY dude.

not one fact or statistic to back up your terrible argument.

p.s. why are you judging the physical appearance of dudes? are we to conclude you find mo more attractive than hoffy?

baseball4ever
12-26-2008, 06:50 PM
He blows when it matters most. He can't hold Rivera's glove in post-season stats. See the post "Favorite reliever" Trevor is a legend in his own mind. Plus he is one UGLY dude.

not one fact or statistic to back up your terrible argument.

p.s. why are you judging the physical appearance of dudes? are we to conclude you find mo more attractive than hoffy?

The ugly remark was meant as a joke. Still...your response is typical of the average insecure, padre fan complete with the inferority complex. Not one stat to back my argument up. lesse, blown saves on the national stage, i.e., 98 w.s., all-star game, one game play-off with the brewers= BLOWN SAVE. as I said before chack out the favorite reliever thread and finally in post-season play, Rivera reigns supreme, Hoffman struggles. and THATS A FACT. Sorry but its NOT Tweva time. His time has past, done and over.

Plus the only time you hear "ALL-TIME SAVE LEADER is in sandy Eggo. No one else notices or cares because it's the most over-rated stat in baseball given the stupid three run rule.

SJ5382
12-27-2008, 09:12 AM
Noooot even close.

Nobody is in the same league as Rivera.

SJ5382
12-27-2008, 09:14 AM
not one fact or statistic to back up your terrible argument.

p.s. why are you judging the physical appearance of dudes? are we to conclude you find mo more attractive than hoffy?
He has a 3.46 in 13 total innings as a closer in the postseason, not even mentioning the fact that he has blown a one-game playoff. He also blew that game in 2007 in which the Padres were an out away from clinching a playoff spot. Of course Mariano has blown some huge games (Game 7 of the World Series for one) but he has saved more big games than anyone...

Tragedy
12-27-2008, 10:01 AM
Easily Rivera.
^^

Either way, both of these guys are filthy.

METS CP 5
12-27-2008, 07:26 PM
Rivera. Better ERA, less HR's and he can do it in a big spot.

baseball4ever
12-29-2008, 01:03 AM
Well, putting aside the fact that i am NOT a Sandy Eggo sports fan, I chose to tally the votes posted on this topic as anyone who takes the time to post messages on this fine sports site must have som sembelance o what their talking about; hence the following totals on better reliever Mariano Rivera: 25 Votes. Trevor Hoffman: 4. Case Closed

Lincecum4CY
01-07-2009, 05:51 PM
I'm going with Hoffman

JAYZFAN9
01-07-2009, 10:08 PM
Mo by miles and miles

iangallagher29
01-07-2009, 10:30 PM
MO mo better mo faster mo stronger

djak
01-07-2009, 10:32 PM
Mariano=Best closer alltime

BeAn 5 ToWnE
01-10-2009, 09:55 PM
Mo.

drdirt
01-11-2009, 01:44 AM
id love to say hoffman but rivera is a robot

dinopap
01-11-2009, 02:41 AM
its not even a discussion

yankees run in the late 90s was for two reason that made them stand above the rest.... torre and rivera

rivera is one of the best pitchers ever, let alone closers

please end this nondebate

PhillyLuver
01-11-2009, 12:11 PM
I love Hoffy and living in SD for a long time I got to see him in his prime.

Mo is definitely better though

todu82
01-12-2009, 05:19 PM
Mariano Rivera

Mets4Life101
01-12-2009, 09:10 PM
mariano by a lot imo

SHOELESSJOE3
01-12-2009, 09:15 PM
He has a 3.46 in 13 total innings as a closer in the postseason, not even mentioning the fact that he has blown a one-game playoff. He also blew that game in 2007 in which the Padres were an out away from clinching a playoff spot. Of course Mariano has blown some huge games (Game 7 of the World Series for one) but he has saved more big games than anyone...

It's in the books as a blown save and it can't be excused, it was a clean base hit. But, he did what he does best, got the pitch right on the hands, jammed Gonzalez and he beat the Yanks with a 110 feet looping single over a drawn in infield.
Looks like Mo made a good pitch, a pop out to shortstop almost all the time. Hats off to Gonzalez, jammed but to his credit he did hit far enough to do the job.

Old Sweater
01-12-2009, 09:53 PM
Hoffy on Coffy over Mo when he is slow.

07MVPPatBurrell
01-12-2009, 11:57 PM
not sure anyone in their right mind would say hoffman. easy question.

cHi8DaL5LA420
01-13-2009, 12:39 AM
not even close mariano is the best closer to ever play the game... look at how many rings he has and career saves... he is great!!! you cant say that about a lot of athletes

Padres Son
01-13-2009, 03:46 AM
mariano. their numbers are very comparable for regular season, but mo is SOOOOO much better in the post season.

IRUAM #21
01-13-2009, 03:56 AM
Mariano is the best closer of all time

MJ-BULLS
01-20-2009, 01:18 PM
im a cub fan and i say mariano period!