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StarvingKnick22
07-13-2012, 06:30 PM
I remember when you guys said Lin is terrible and he is just hype. Now he might sign with the Rockets(which is fair) and you guys are like "lmao poor knicks" "so sad for them."
Is he REALLY good enough to bring a team from the dead? I honestly dont think we NEED him more than Houston does and it would help our Luxury Tax situation. Melo improved and matured in the couple of games without Lin, getting 2 triple douples and the Knicks 6 more wins than what we had while Lin was playing. Melo showed what he can and will do next season :cool:. Lin will kill melo's game little by little. Giving us less of a chance than we have now of getting a Championship.
Houston Situation:
If Knicks cave in and let Houston have Lin this helps both teams. it helps Houston have a PG and not have just scrubs that will hed nowhere. it Helps the Knicks Cap wise... I believe Houston with Lin will do exceptionally well. I hope atleast...
So is Lin worth going over the Tax for 3 years or should they let him walk? Is Houston making the right choice??

justinnum1
07-13-2012, 06:30 PM
He has a lot more value off the court then on it.

waveycrockett
07-13-2012, 06:31 PM
this is one of those lose-lose situations

TeamSeattle
07-13-2012, 06:32 PM
This should be in the Knicks forum...just saying. Its a good question though.

Cano4prez
07-13-2012, 06:32 PM
No.

torocan
07-13-2012, 06:34 PM
If they keep Lin it costs $8.3M/year + the lux tax hit.

If they let Lin walk they using Kidd + Prigioni for their PG's... not alot out there when all you can pay is the Vet Minimum. That's a recipe for 6-8th seed. No offense to Kidd, he's just not a 30 minute guy, and Prigioni? No NBA experience... he could end up slaughtered.

As for how good Lin is, NOBODY really knows. At best, we're all guessing based upon his 25 games... good, bad, future star or bust, it's all just opinion.

Apparently the Rockets are willing to pay... the only relevant question is whether the Knicks are too.

BigBlueCrew
07-13-2012, 06:34 PM
Yes he should be in the hall of fame. I came up with this assessment after 25 games/900+ minutes on the floor.

YAY ME!!!! :clap:

JasonJohnHorn
07-13-2012, 06:35 PM
No, but the question with Lin shouldn't be "is he that good", it should be "is he worth that much?" And the answer to that is yes, he is. Because of the way the Asian market responded to Yao Ming, and turned the Rockets into a profitable team because of the merchandise sales he generated, it is fair to assume that Lin may have a similiar impact for whatever team he ends up with so long as he puts out decent numbers. Is he going to make them worth as much as LBJ made the Cavs worth? Not by a long shot, but he will still generate enough revenue to warrant hsi contract, regardless of his play on the court.

Signing Lin is as much a business move as it is a basketball move. Why do you think Houston is the team putting the cash up? Because they know how much money the Asian market will generate for them.

justinnum1
07-13-2012, 06:35 PM
If they keep Lin it costs $8.3M/year + the lux tax hit.

If they let Lin walk they using Kidd + Prigioni for their PG's... not alot out there when all you can pay is the Vet Minimum. That's a recipe for 6-8th seed. No offense to Kidd, he's just not a 30 minute guy, and Prigioni? No NBA experience... he could end up slaughtered.

As for how good Lin is, NOBODY really knows. At best, we're all guessing based upon his 25 games... good, bad, future star or bust, it's all just opinion.

Apparently the Rockets are willing to pay... the only relevant question is whether the Knicks are too.

huh? if the knicks keep him the cap hit looks like 5-5-15
if the rockets get him the cap hit would be 8.3-8.3-8.3

dalton749
07-13-2012, 06:36 PM
no

torocan
07-13-2012, 06:37 PM
huh? if the knicks keep him the cap hit looks like 5-5-15
if the rockets get him the cap hit would be 8.3-8.3-8.3

Was talking the total salary/average base salary, which is why I mentioned the lux tax hit seperately.

The Knicks are over the Lux Tax EVERY year for the next 3 years. They're over it already and haven't matched Lin yet.

Avenged
07-13-2012, 06:38 PM
Nope.

EDUTEXANS
07-13-2012, 06:39 PM
he is a risk worth taking, IMO. He can be a huge bust next year or he can turn into a star. He is a huge question mark for me

waveycrockett
07-13-2012, 06:39 PM
No, but the question with Lin shouldn't be "is he that good", it should be "is he worth that much?" And the answer to that is yes, he is. Because of the way the Asian market responded to Yao Ming, and turned the Rockets into a profitable team because of the merchandise sales he generated, it is fair to assume that Lin may have a similiar impact for whatever team he ends up with so long as he puts out decent numbers. Is he going to make them worth as much as LBJ made the Cavs worth? Not by a long shot, but he will still generate enough revenue to warrant hsi contract, regardless of his play on the court.

Signing Lin is as much a business move as it is a basketball move. Why do you think Houston is the team putting the cash up? Because they know how much money the Asian market will generate for them.
SOME OnE GET YI JANLIAN ON THE PHONE!! I THINK WE'VE STRUCK A GOLD MINE!!

Raps18-19 Champ
07-13-2012, 06:40 PM
He's not good to begin with.

Toxeryll
07-13-2012, 06:40 PM
no, hes way overrated. the plays he make are routine plays and give any PG minutes and shots, theyll put up similar #s.

StarvingKnick22
07-13-2012, 06:41 PM
Was talking the total salary/average base salary, which is why I mentioned the lux tax hit seperately.

The Knicks are over the Lux Tax EVERY year for the next 3 years. They're over it already and haven't matched Lin yet.

shut up, meg:facepalm:

KniCks4LiFe
07-13-2012, 06:43 PM
no, hes way overrated. the plays he make are routine plays and give any PG minutes and shots, theyll put up similar #s.

so it's just that easy huh?

Kashmir13579
07-13-2012, 06:44 PM
Gross.

StarvingKnick22
07-13-2012, 06:44 PM
he is a risk worth taking, IMO. He can be a huge bust next year or he can turn into a star. He is a huge question mark for me

my point. you guys could be paying him 10million a year to do nothing. better you than my Knicks lol

waveycrockett
07-13-2012, 06:45 PM
shut up, meg:facepalm:

Knicks fans better hope Verizon Fios doesn't keep eating away at Cablevision profits or we might see Lin handing out peanuts and popcorn during timeouts.

keetyweedy
07-13-2012, 06:46 PM
NO...but he can the sell the hell out of some Jersey's, plus he had a ice-cream named after him....you can never go wrong getting a player who had a ice-cream named after them

Toxeryll
07-13-2012, 06:48 PM
so it's just that easy huh?

yup

TeamSeattle
07-13-2012, 06:49 PM
no, hes way overrated. the plays he make are routine plays and give any PG minutes and shots, theyll put up similar #s.

It's always the same argument with Lin about his numbers. Its all good.

knickfan447
07-13-2012, 06:49 PM
Knicks fans better hope Verizon Fios doesn't keep eating away at Cablevision profits or we might see Lin handing out peanuts and popcorn during timeouts.


Yep i just told someone else you keep him and landry fields the cable bill will be 400 dollars ,soda will be 9.50 .lol

trini_knickfan
07-13-2012, 06:51 PM
no, hes way overrated. the plays he make are routine plays and give any PG minutes and shots, theyll put up similar #s.

Wow did u think that answer through before u wrote that? Sure he could be overrated but every pg doing what he did is BS. You may not have seen Toney Douglas play then!

Toxeryll
07-13-2012, 06:53 PM
Wow did u think that answer through before u wrote that? Sure he could be overrated but every pg doing what he did is BS. You may not have seen Toney Douglas play then!

sorry, i should have put similar or better.

BigBlueCrew
07-13-2012, 06:54 PM
Wow did u think that answer through before u wrote that? Sure he could be overrated but every pg doing what he did is BS. You may not have seen Toney Douglas play then!

Im so glad he is gone :clap:

Although people on this dumb forum will call it a major loss :laugh:

LongIslandIcedZ
07-13-2012, 06:54 PM
He's a good player and is worth way more than he costs. The guy is a gold mine. I don't understand what the issue is.

Beltrans Mole
07-13-2012, 06:55 PM
I don't understand why this kid gets hated so much. It was a good story and it's not like he pulled a Tebow and just "won games"...the kid's stats in 25 games were just downright impressive...especially considering he was a borderline D-League player. I guess people will hate NY even when they have feel-good stories such as this.

rocket
07-13-2012, 06:56 PM
He's a solid player.

TheNumber37
07-13-2012, 07:06 PM
No, he's not this good. But the money he brings overshadows almost any contract he'll sign. This guy will bring in 50-100 mil per year for the franchise that he plays for through ticket sales, promotion and new fans worldwide. Not to mention who ever plays with him has a better chance at starting the all star game.

Bornknick73
07-13-2012, 07:18 PM
SOME OnE GET YI JANLIAN ON THE PHONE!! I THINK WE'VE STRUCK A GOLD MINE!!

:clap:

Someone with a brain...woo hoo.

If Lin isnt as good he wont make them any money. Yao was a All-Star player. A dominating one when he was healthy. Asians arent one of the smartest races for nothing. They arent gonna cheer and buy his gear just because hes asian. Asians love a winner. Kobe, Lebron etc. If Lin isnt what they paid all that money to be they wont make a dime.

As Wavy has so eloquently pointed out. If asians make so much money because of thier marketability then Yi should be worth a fortune, but hes not because hes garbage.

Bornknick73
07-13-2012, 07:19 PM
And If I remember correctly Raymond Felton looked like an All-Star in Dantonis offense too. Look how that turned out after he was traded...twice!

waveycrockett
07-13-2012, 07:20 PM
:clap:

Someone with a brain...woo hoo.

If Lin isnt as good he wont make them any money. Yao was a All-Star player. A dominating one when he was healthy. Asians arent one of the smartest races for nothing. They arent gonna cheer and buy his gear just because hes asian. Asians love a winner. Kobe, Lebron etc. If Lin isnt what they paid all that money to be they wont make a dime.

As Wavy has so eloquently pointed out. If asians make so much money because of thier marketability then Yi should be worth a fortune, but hes not because hes garbage.

Agree 100%

Vinny642
07-13-2012, 07:21 PM
Lin is not amazing but he will bring endorsements and MONEY to a franchise regardless because of his three weeks of greatness(and a season of turnovers)

greg_ory_2005
07-13-2012, 07:24 PM
Lin is a beast. Yes he is that damn good.

Bob_at_york
07-13-2012, 07:27 PM
He has a lot more value off the court then on it.

exactly what I was thinking. He will sell jerseys and bring some excitement but he won't be worth the money with his on court production. Knicks would be better off seeing how much Felton wants to come to the Knicks.

KingPosey
07-13-2012, 07:33 PM
no, hes way overrated. the plays he make are routine plays and give any PG minutes and shots, theyll put up similar #s.

I just dont see ANY PG dropping 40 on the Lake Show and then dropping a 25 footer at the buzzer cold blooded. It was one of those moments where he knew he was gonna do it, his team knew, the fans knew, the other team knew and nothing could stop it.

He has talent, flare, and the balls. Can he do it consistently, I dont know.

TwoBit
07-13-2012, 07:33 PM
One of the most overrated players currently in the league. The Tim Tebow of the NBA the way I look at it. Only difference is Tebow's body can sustain through his season, Lin is completely pathetic athletically, maybe this contract will get him in the gym. He definitely had some great moments last season but it was like watching pickup basketball because of allt he turnovers he committed. Kobe score 27 points a game because he shoots 25 times a game. Lin averages 10 assists because he turns it over 7 times a game. Overblown stat line in my opinion, won't be anything more than a good backup in the NBA.

TeamSeattle
07-13-2012, 07:37 PM
One of the most overrated players currently in the league. The Tim Tebow of the NBA the way I look at it. Only difference is Tebow's body can sustain through his season, Lin is completely pathetic athletically, maybe this contract will get him in the gym. He definitely had some great moments last season but it was like watching pickup basketball because of allt he turnovers he committed. Kobe score 27 points a game because he shoots 25 times a game. Lin averages 10 assists because he turns it over 7 times a game. Overblown stat line in my opinion, won't be anything more than a good backup in the NBA.

hmm do I know you?

Mr.SmackYoMama
07-13-2012, 07:37 PM
He's not good to begin with.

He is SO OVERHYPED!!!!!!! Trust me i'll sig bet anyone that he doesn't play anything remotely close to what he did in 25 games last season. His value off the court is what gets him this contract not the fact that he will save The Rockets franchise!

Beltrans Mole
07-13-2012, 07:37 PM
One of the most overrated players currently in the league. The Tim Tebow of the NBA the way I look at it. Only difference is Tebow's body can sustain through his season, Lin is completely pathetic athletically, maybe this contract will get him in the gym. He definitely had some great moments last season but it was like watching pickup basketball because of allt he turnovers he committed. Kobe score 27 points a game because he shoots 25 times a game. Lin averages 10 assists because he turns it over 7 times a game. Overblown stat line in my opinion, won't be anything more than a good backup in the NBA.

Just delete your account now. Thanks for playing.

Mr.SmackYoMama
07-13-2012, 07:39 PM
Lin is a beast. Yes he is that damn good.

Not even close!!!!

TwoBit
07-13-2012, 07:41 PM
Just delete your account now. Thanks for playing.

Well that's not very nice mister. If you want to have a discussion explain what you think he does exceptionally well that he deserves a contract that pays him 14 mil for a season.

TwoBit
07-13-2012, 07:41 PM
hmm do I know you?

Dad?

torocan
07-13-2012, 07:41 PM
:clap:

Someone with a brain...woo hoo.

If Lin isnt as good he wont make them any money. Yao was a All-Star player. A dominating one when he was healthy. Asians arent one of the smartest races for nothing. They arent gonna cheer and buy his gear just because hes asian. Asians love a winner. Kobe, Lebron etc. If Lin isnt what they paid all that money to be they wont make a dime.

As Wavy has so eloquently pointed out. If asians make so much money because of thier marketability then Yi should be worth a fortune, but hes not because hes garbage.

Not exactly. Yao didn't go to Harvard, wasn't American, and isn't a devout Christian either. Yao also isn't "normal" height, or had Lin's particular story of perseverance and struggle.

Lin is a marketer's wet dream. Athlete/scholar, american dream/immigrant family, underdog, Rocky style story, humble and devout Christian, etc, etc. And oh yah, he's Asian too. Cha-ching.

As long as he's in a Uniform and doesn't completely implode, he'll have significant marketing pull now that he's become an international brand.

Not as much if he doesn't play as well, but don't expect his marketing value to disappear if he has a bad season.

torocan
07-13-2012, 07:43 PM
Well that's not very nice mister. If you want to have a discussion explain what you think he does exceptionally well that he deserves a contract that pays him 14 mil for a season.

$14M for ONE season out of 3, that MUST be backloaded because of how GA rules work.

An equivalent offer is $8.3M/year. That's what the actual salary discussion should center around.

BKLYNpigeon
07-13-2012, 07:43 PM
he is not worth the money.

TwoBit
07-13-2012, 07:48 PM
$14M for ONE season out of 3, that MUST be backloaded because of how GA rules work.

An equivalent offer is $8.3M/year. That's what the actual salary discussion should center around.

And you think that is any better?! He is a backup or being kind a low tier starting point guard. What does he do exceptionally well that makes him get that sort of money. Is he athletic? He can't play defense at all, goes to the right consistently off of his crossover. He is predictable, has a nice jump shot, and his assist numbers are overrated, look at the amount of turnovers he commits. Bottom-line: everyone overrates a player who does well in New York. If he were doing these things in Golden State nobody would even take a second look at the kid. I root for him but..

JasonJohnHorn
07-13-2012, 08:16 PM
If asians make so much money because of thier marketability then Yi should be worth a fortune, but hes not because hes garbage.

Look up Lins jersey sales. He' no Yi. Yi wasn't even a starter. Lin is. Plus Lin plays for a big market.

thekmp211
07-13-2012, 08:17 PM
financially yes. basketball wise, maybe. but he will earn NYK all that tax money back and then some just with the hype.

JasonJohnHorn
07-13-2012, 08:18 PM
And If I remember correctly Raymond Felton looked like an All-Star in Dantonis offense too. Look how that turned out after he was traded...twice!

Same thing with Nash. He looked great in Dantoni's system and then look at him after... oh wait... he's still awesome.

Just because Felton didn't do well doesn't mean Lin won't do well.

StarvingKnick22
07-13-2012, 08:31 PM
Dad?

hmm I'm gonna give you a name until you get 100 posts. So what up two-dad Taylor?

Beantownsboss
07-13-2012, 08:35 PM
More speculation or opinion threads, fun fun. But no he is not that good, maybe a top 15-20 pg in the league. He played well for a decent stretch, and espn made him out to be frickin superman. Alahh, Tim Tebow.

TwoBit
07-13-2012, 08:37 PM
hmm I'm gonna give you a name until you get 100 posts. So what up two-dad Taylor?

You know.. same old, sitting in my room eating stuffing. What're you up to hash slinging slasher?

agureghian
07-13-2012, 08:44 PM
He isnt; look how many fans he brings to the stadium... The arena is full of asians when hes playing.

Punk
07-13-2012, 08:46 PM
Not right now but yes. He's a PG version of Blake Grffin in the sense of having great potential and tools to be a top tier player at the position but needs time to work on it. Much like Griffin, he's a cash cow, fan favorite, highlight reel, etc but his skillset and potential is there. As much as people hate on him on here and say I overrate him or "we" overate him, It was Magic Johnson and Jerry West that compared his skillset to Nash/Stockton. Even Nash compared himself to him at a younger age.

Teams like Houston go by his potential and his marketing but he isn't worth 14 million. Atleast not yet.

TwoBit
07-13-2012, 08:49 PM
Not right now but yes. He's a PG version of Blake Grffin in the sense of having great potential and tools to be a top tier player at the position but needs time to work on it. Much like Griffin, he's a cash cow, fan favorite, highlight reel, etc but his skillset and potential is there. As much as people hate on him on here and say I overrate him or "we" overate him, It was Magic Johnson and Jerry West that compared his skillset to Nash/Stockton. Even Nash compared himself to him at a younger age.

Teams like Houston go by his potential and his marketing but he isn't worth 14 million. Atleast not yet.

:facepalm: *Steven A Smith Face*

IKnowtrust
07-13-2012, 09:06 PM
Lin Is Good, I Think Of Him Like Rookie And If You Look At Him Like That Also Name Two Better(Kyrie). Lin Makes Money For The Knicks Off The Court Too. Rockets Just Tryin To Get Back In Touch Wit There Asain Fans Which They Lost After Yoa Mings Inj. Lin Will Better Better With A Hall Of Fame PG Backing Him Up And Teaching Him A Few Things About The Position. If All Isnt Well Next Season I Wouldnt Be Surprised If He Becomes Apart Of A CP3 Deal For Him To Go To The Knicks....Justsayin

calibird707
07-13-2012, 09:06 PM
Lol at all you talent evaluators out there...the dude has skills and he made the most of his opportunities..he is learning the pg spot at the NBA level...hes got to take his lumps...he will be fine and having j.kidd around can only help matters..he showed what he is capable of imo...what he does from here is up to him and the work he puts in...im gonna say yes he is worth it cause last time i checked pg's dont grow on trees

Evolution23
07-13-2012, 09:09 PM
top 5 point guard. so yes

justinnum1
07-13-2012, 09:15 PM
top 5 point guard. so yes

:laugh:

Evolution23
07-13-2012, 09:16 PM
:laugh:

u mad?

justinnum1
07-13-2012, 09:21 PM
u mad?

I'm laughing:laugh2:. You are the only person on this site that would think lin is a top 5 pg. Nice job:clap:

Bob_at_york
07-13-2012, 09:21 PM
top 5 point guard. so yes

just for my own curiousity, who are the top 5 PGs in the league?

Tha Truth
07-13-2012, 09:30 PM
I'm not sold on Lin at all. He was amazing for two weeks. Not worthy of that contract.

Evolution23
07-13-2012, 09:32 PM
just for my own curiousity, who are the top 5 PGs in the league?

1. Calderon
2. Duhon
3. Lin
4. Chalmers
5. M. James

justinnum1
07-13-2012, 09:35 PM
1. Calderon
2. Duhon
3. Lin
4. Chalmers
5. M. James

Lin over chalmers? Guess you missed that game where rio made lin his *****.

Nice try tho. :clap:

Punk
07-13-2012, 09:42 PM
I'm not sold on Lin at all. He was amazing for two weeks. Not worthy of that contract.

This is the biggest misconception about him.

Without Melo/Amare: 25 points, 7 assists, 5 rebounds, 38 minutes per game.

With Melo/Amare: 15 points, 7 assists, 29 minutes per game.

It wasn't a "two week" thing. He legitimately played at the same level with less touches. Made his teammates better, played great defense under Woodson, etc.

He isn't some novelty. He can play. He has to work on his game to reach his potential. That's about it.

Punk
07-13-2012, 09:45 PM
Lin over chalmers? Guess you missed that game where rio made lin his *****.

Nice try tho. :clap:

Because Mario had 2 steals against Lin, that makes him better? :laugh2:

I guess Chalmers > Harden because Harden struggled against Miami. :laugh2:

justinnum1
07-13-2012, 09:47 PM
Because Mario had 2 steals against Lin, that makes him better? :laugh2:

I guess Chalmers > Harden because Harden struggled against Miami. :laugh2:

Harden is a top 20 player, nice try tho. I wouldn't take lin over Chalmers for anything.

Only a knick fan would think lin is top 5.

knickfan33
07-13-2012, 09:48 PM
Yes.

TheRazorboy
07-13-2012, 09:50 PM
He isn't a great player, but he's a marketing and merchandising dream.

NYK|NYY
07-13-2012, 09:51 PM
Honestly, Knick fans need to stop making threads like this. I like Lin but I am more of a doubter than a believer.

knickfan33
07-13-2012, 09:53 PM
Is he worth that money yet? No, should the knicks chance him leaving and not pay him after seeing his capability, no.

It's very difficult to find a pg who can be your primary scorer and get you double digit assist per game. How many guys in this league do that? Rondo, deron, paul, nash.. Thats some pretty good company, ill put my eggs in the lin basket.

QueensG
07-13-2012, 09:53 PM
Because Mario had 2 steals against Lin, that makes him better? :laugh2:

I guess Chalmers > Harden because Harden struggled against Miami. :laugh2:

Harden is a top 20 player, nice try tho. I wouldn't take lin over Chalmers for anything.

Only a knick fan would think lin is top 5.

you wouldn't take Lin over chalmers? #Lies

Evolution23
07-13-2012, 09:54 PM
Lin over chalmers? Guess you missed that game where rio made lin his *****.

Nice try tho. :clap:

yea because 1 game is the deciding factor for whose the better player. :clap:

justinnum1
07-13-2012, 09:54 PM
you wouldn't take Lin over chalmers? #Lies

Hell no



yea because 1 game is the deciding factor for whose the better player. :clap:

Obviously it isn't. But lin is overrated, and you truly believe he is a top 5 pg:laugh:

C-Wick925
07-13-2012, 09:55 PM
no he sux.. if he was white or black no one would even care about the guy

Evolution23
07-13-2012, 09:55 PM
Hell no

he mad

justinnum1
07-13-2012, 09:58 PM
no he sux.. if he was white or black no one would even care about the guy

:shush: Don't tell knick fans that. They will think your crazy and insulting their unicorn.



he mad

Oh yea. Arguing about a mediocre PG that wouldn't even see minutes on miami. #2012NBACHAMPS (http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/thumb/2/2d/Trollface_HD.png/618px-Trollface_HD.png)

Evolution23
07-13-2012, 09:59 PM
:shush: Don't tell knick fans that. They will think your crazy and insulting their unicorn.

Giants > Dolphins :laugh:

TwoBit
07-13-2012, 10:00 PM
:shush: Don't tell knick fans that. They will think your crazy and insulting their unicorn.

:laugh:

justinnum1
07-13-2012, 10:02 PM
Giants > Dolphins :laugh:

Ok. The dolphins suck. Is that supposed to be some kind of an insult? Try harder bro.

You know your team ******* ***** when you have to make fun of a team in another sport:laugh2:

BigBlueCrew
07-13-2012, 10:05 PM
Giants > Dolphins :laugh:

yeah dont say that...

No-one even watches the Dolphins play. Its like if a touchdown is thrown in Sun Life stadium is it worth 6 points?

Knick_Fever
07-13-2012, 10:10 PM
Ok. The dolphins suck. Is that supposed to be some kind of an insult? Try harder bro.

You know your team ******* ***** when you have to make fun of a team in another sport:laugh2:

Look who's talking.

Mr Costanza
07-13-2012, 10:11 PM
Giants > Dolphins :laugh:

You think you are getting under his skin with comments like that? He loves arguing with other posters.

Fighting on PSD is Justin's internet porn.

Knick_Fever
07-13-2012, 10:17 PM
:shush: Don't tell knick fans that. They will think your crazy and insulting their unicorn.




Oh yea. Arguing about a mediocre PG that wouldn't even see minutes on miami. #2012NBACHAMPS (http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/thumb/2/2d/Trollface_HD.png/618px-Trollface_HD.png)

No offense bro, but to say Lin wouldn't get minutes in Miami or that you would take Chalmers over Lin is laughable. Chalmers is garbage on a great team, what does that tell you? Lin was great on a terrible team (without Melo and Amare) during that winning stretch. I talk to Heat fans just like you at work (most of them frontrunners but very knowledgable basketball fans), and all agree that the Heat would be even better with Lin instead of Chalmers. I mean come on man the guy won "breakthrough athlete of the year" for a reason, against some pretty tough competition from ALL SPORTS. I expect you out of everyone on here to be the most rational and respect your opinion, but you failed miserably on this one. Truly disappointing. Believe the hype!!

justinnum1
07-13-2012, 10:21 PM
No offense bro, but to say Lin wouldn't get minutes in Miami or that you would take Chalmers over Lin is laughable. Chalmers is garbage on a great team, what does that tell you? Lin was great on a terrible team (without Melo and Amare) during that winning stretch. I talk to Heat fans just like you at work (most of them frontrunners but very knowledgable basketball fans), and all agree that the Heat would be even better with Lin instead of Chalmers. I mean come on man the guy won "breakthrough athlete of the year" for a reason, against some pretty tough competition from ALL SPORTS. I expect you out of everyone on here to be the most rational and respect your opinion, but you failed miserably on this one. Truly disappointing. Believe the hype!!

Yea, I take chalmers on miami over lin all day long. What can lin do without the ball in his hands? exactly. his defense is below average. He would not see minutes on miami.

They are both in the 20-35 range in PG rankings. On mimai i would take rio over lin. No brainer really.

Knick_Fever
07-13-2012, 10:28 PM
Yea, I take chalmers on miami over lin all day long.

They are both in the 20-35 range in PG rankings. On mimai i would take rio over lin. No brainer really.

I don't think you read my last post, the numbers don't lie. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and I'll just accept that you're riding the extreme "bias" train. Truth is Chalmers struggles to keep an NBA job outside of Miami.

StarvingKnick22
07-13-2012, 10:30 PM
top 5 point guard. so yes

i hope your just trolling cause if your not, you might have to go to the docter or to your gynecologist and ask if you vagina is in a twist:facepalm:

StarvingKnick22
07-13-2012, 10:31 PM
anyways, we dont need lin also because when Shumpert comes back, are defense would be in a full charge again

justinnum1
07-13-2012, 10:33 PM
I don't think you read my last post, the numbers don't lie. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and I'll just accept that you're riding the extreme "bias" train. Truth is Chalmers struggles to keep an NBA job outside of Miami.

That's simply not true. He is asked to play as a combo guard. Some plays he doesnt touch the ball, others he is asked to make something happen with it.

He has won us games in the finals, is not afraid of taking big shots and is a good defender. he is exactly what miami needs from their pg position.

To say he struggles to keep an NBA job outside miami is flat out false.

StarvingKnick22
07-13-2012, 10:33 PM
You know.. same old, sitting in my room eating stuffing. What're you up to hash slinging slasher?
:clap: lol i like this one.

TwoBit
07-13-2012, 10:35 PM
:clap: lol i like this one.

:D I made a psd friend :)
Can't wait to tell my mom!

StarvingKnick22
07-13-2012, 10:37 PM
:D I made a psd friend :)
Can't wait to tell my mom!

:laugh2:

LongIslandIcedZ
07-13-2012, 10:37 PM
I cant believe people actually think he sucks. That's pathetic. I've always been one of the posters whose said that he isnt nearly as good as he is hyped to be. Having said that, he does not suck. Watching him play last year, I saw no inclination that he is going to suck. He's a good point guard, definitely starter quality in this league. This whole "he sux" "u mad" thing is a joke.

TwoBit
07-13-2012, 10:39 PM
I cant believe people actually think he sucks. That's pathetic. I've always been one of the posters whose said that he isnt nearly as good as he is hyped to be. Having said that, he does not suck. Watching him play last year, I saw no inclination that he is going to suck. He's a good point guard, definitely starter quality in this league. This whole "he sux" "u mad" thing is a joke.
He does not suck.. but he isn't worth that kinda money.

BigBlueCrew
07-13-2012, 10:41 PM
That's simply not true. He is asked to play as a combo guard. Some plays he doesnt touch the ball, others he is asked to make something happen with it.

He has won us games in the finals, is not afraid of taking big shots and is a good defender. he is exactly what miami needs from their pg position.

To say he struggles to keep an NBA job outside miami is flat out false.

Please, I know you like to harp on one game over and over and over again. But the fact of the matter is that Mario Chalmers has a ton of more NBA experience as a starter/backup than Jeremy Lin and has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with it. This is before Lebron arrived and now after. So you can continue to condescend on Jeremy Lin but anyone with half of NBA common sense know what Mario Chalmers is and isnt already.

LongIslandIcedZ
07-13-2012, 10:41 PM
He does not suck.. but he isn't worth that kinda money.

Well in a financial sense, he is most definitely worth it. However, I know what you mean and I agree.

justinnum1
07-13-2012, 10:43 PM
Please, I know you like to harp on one game over and over and over again. But the fact of the matter is that Mario Chalmers has a ton of more NBA experience as a starter/backup than Jeremy Lin and has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with it. This is before Lebron arrived and now after. So you can continue to condescend on Jeremy Lin but anyone with half of NBA common sense know what Mario Chalmers is and isnt already.

Ok. What does that have to do with me rather having chalmers on the heat than lin?

BigBlueCrew
07-13-2012, 10:44 PM
Ok. What does that have to do with me rather having chalmers on the heat than lin?

Chalmers is a sucker

justinnum1
07-13-2012, 10:47 PM
Chalmers is a sucker

The ring on his middle finger says otherwise.

Also, that 12pts he scored in the 4th on westbrick in game 4 to win the game when bron was hurt says otherwise too. Mario got more rings than melo and ewing combined:D


On the real tho, rio got swag and he's clutch.

nirvana235
07-13-2012, 10:48 PM
The ring on his middle finger says otherwise.

Also, that 12pts he scored in the 4th on westbrick in game 4 to win the game when bron was hurt says otherwise too. Mario got more rings than melo and ewing combined:D

Oh my... guess Mario is better than Westbrook..

MORE RINGS BABY!!!

Adam Morrison has a ring put him in the HOF!!!

Jarvo
07-13-2012, 10:50 PM
No

BigBlueCrew
07-13-2012, 10:52 PM
The ring on his middle finger says otherwise.

Also, that 12pts he scored in the 4th on westbrick in game 4 to win the game when bron was hurt says otherwise too. Mario got more rings than melo and ewing combined:D


On the real tho, rio got swag and he's clutch.

Again lets harp and harp and harp on the same game over and over again.

How come for Mario Chalmers we get to use one game out of 87 (64 + 23) last year. But Jeremy Lin gets chastised for his "horrible" play last year. He came up with the clutch shot in the Toronto game. Im sure I dont have to bring up that highlight for you, unless you want me to. Im sure ESPN can cue it up for you if you want :D

heyman321
07-13-2012, 10:54 PM
Give him a break, he's technically going into his second year, and he's decent and can improve. Needs to improve his left hand, his dribble control, and defense, but his shooting, driving, passing, and free throws are all already pretty good. What more can you want?

His contract is also taking into the account all the money the Knicks will be getting from Chinese and Taiwanese TV stations wanting the rights to exclusively broadcast his games. At any given time, there will probably be 10 million Chinese fans watching a Knicks game just because of him. If he was paid $80 million dollars, over 4 years just for his marketability, it would still be a steal.

Evolution23
07-13-2012, 10:55 PM
yeah dont say that...

No-one even watches the Dolphins play. Its like if a touchdown is thrown in Sun Life stadium is it worth 6 points?

Just wait until Lebron joins the Dolphins.

TwoBit
07-13-2012, 10:55 PM
Well in a financial sense, he is most definitely worth it. However, I know what you mean and I agree.
The potential is worth the money he is being paid. It's just the risk that he might not live up to those expectations.

justinnum1
07-13-2012, 10:56 PM
Again lets harp and harp and harp on the same game over and over again.

How come for Mario Chalmers we get to use one game out of 85 (64 + 23) last year. But Jeremy Lin gets chastised for his "horrible" play last year. He came up with the clutch shot in the Toronto game. Im sure I dont have to bring up that highlight for you, unless you want me to. Im sure ESPN can cue it up for you if you want :D

Im not even bringing that game up right now, you are. He hit a game winner, thats awesome. :clap:

I would take chalmers over him and not even based on that game, miami needs a guy that can hit 3's and defend. 2 things that chamlers does better than lin.

Evolution23
07-13-2012, 10:57 PM
Oh my... guess Mario is better than Westbrook..

MORE RINGS BABY!!!

Adam Morrison has a ring put him in the HOF!!!

Bill Russel > Jordan
Lebron James = Eddy Curry (1 ring each)

justinnum1
07-13-2012, 10:58 PM
Bill Russel > Jordan
Lebron James = Eddy Curry (1 ring each)

Curry>melo

keetyweedy
07-13-2012, 11:00 PM
Again lets harp and harp and harp on the same game over and over again.

How come for Mario Chalmers we get to use one game out of 87 (64 + 23) last year. But Jeremy Lin gets chastised for his "horrible" play last year. He came up with the clutch shot in the Toronto game. Im sure I dont have to bring up that highlight for you, unless you want me to. Im sure ESPN can cue it up for you if you want :D


Im not even bringing that game up right now, you are. He hit a game winner, thats awesome. :clap:

I would take chalmers over him and not even based on that game, miami needs a guy that can hit 3's and defend. 2 things that chamlers does better than lin.


Im sorry but Lin is not xxxxxxx with Rio, didnt you see him at kansas? that boy is money

Er1c
07-13-2012, 11:03 PM
no he's not THAT good. he's just a tickets sucking machine, that's it. Here in Taiwan, people treat him like god and 7/10 people wear a "Linsanity" shirt. hype

jiggin
07-13-2012, 11:07 PM
is lin really that good?

no

MadBomber
07-14-2012, 05:47 AM
no he's not THAT good. he's just a tickets sucking machine, that's it. Here in Taiwan, people treat him like god and 7/10 people wear a "Linsanity" shirt. hype

+1 They want him for marketing purpose to generate more revenue from the asian market! I agree with the above statement...

meadowlarklemon
07-14-2012, 06:07 AM
:crazy: ^

flatbush knicks
07-14-2012, 07:26 AM
lmao the kid was pratically a rookie last year if he improves over the offseason then we'll be a real scary team next year but if he doesn't like alot of young players that get ther first big contract then we are screwed but to awnser the question idk yet but i'd take him over alot of pg's in this league right now

sventhedog
07-14-2012, 07:50 AM
of course. haven't you heard of linsanity? lol.

Rockice_8
07-14-2012, 08:23 AM
I think Lin will be a solid NBA point guard even if that last year of the contract is crazy. I think he's shown enough that he wasn't just a fluke. He's getting scouted now so I wouldn't expect him to average those numbers he put up last year. I could see like 12-14 ppg with around 8 apg.


I think the bigger question is how will Lin and Melo play together. They each did impressive things while the other was injured but we've yet to see how they mess for long stretches.

torocan
07-14-2012, 09:12 AM
The more fair question isn't whether Lin the Player is good enough to justify his contract, it's whether Lin the EMPLOYEE justifies the contract. And the simple answer to that is Yes.

The CBA doesn't allow Players to make side deals for earnings. That means that if a Team is making millions upon millions of dollars off that player's marketing pull, the ONLY way a player can see a fair cut of that is through their contract.

IF the CBA allowed Players to make side deals, you probably would have seen two SEPERATE contracts... one for play of around $5M/year, the other for his marketability that would probably be MUCH larger than $3M/year.

In pure monetary terms, Lin is probably worth a Minimum of $10-$12M/year to a team ON TOP of his on the court production.

Until the league allows a team to seperate the marketing side from the playing side of a player, you'll always have this situation where a contract is inflated to represent both play and marketability.

As for why the League doesn't allow the players to have side deals to factor in their off the court earning potential, really it's to benefit small market teams. The CBA limits salaries. This means the most a large team can pay is exactly the SAME as what a small market team can pay them.

If the League allowed players to have seperate contracts for play AND marketing, the small teams would never have a shot against the big market teams when it comes to FA.

Players with High Visibility would NEVER stay on a team outside of a major market....

sixer04fan
07-14-2012, 09:22 AM
Lin has some talent, but he wouldn't sniff the court on some teams just because of how often he turns the ball over. He put up some flashy stats, but I think he's incredibly overrated because the negatives really aren't being taken into consideration. He also has a lot of off the court value, which inflates people's views of him as well. On the Sixers, for example, he'd never be allowed to play because of his ridiculous turnover rate. Even if he was a 20 ppg player, if you can't take care of the ball, you can't stay out there on the floor. That's how it is for a lot of teams. Obviously D'Antoni's system didn't emphasize that.

Kerv_the_Knick
07-14-2012, 09:28 AM
Lin is underrated, but overrated, imo. If it weren't for him, the Knicks probably wouldn't have had that 7 game winning streak, esp against some of the upper-echelon teams, and definitely wouldn't have made the playoffs. I think he has alot of potential to be amongst of the top tier PGs in the league. Is he there yet? No. Is he good? Yes, but still has a long ways to go to reach his potential

torocan
07-14-2012, 09:34 AM
Lin has some talent, but he wouldn't sniff the court on some teams just because of how often he turns the ball over. He put up some flashy stats, but I think he's incredibly overrated because the negatives really aren't being taken into consideration. He also has a lot of off the court value, which inflates people's views of him as well. On the Sixers, for example, he'd never be allowed to play because of his ridiculous turnover rate. Even if he was a 20 ppg player, if you can't take care of the ball, you can't stay out there on the floor. That's how it is for a lot of teams. Obviously D'Antoni's system didn't emphasize that.

That may be true, but those teams may also lose some of those games where Lin would have been the difference maker.

Lin is a net +ive on the court. As Hubie Brown once said regarding Lin's turnovers,

"Yes, his turnovers are high and need to come down... but if his production in other parts of the game is high enough, you have to live with them."

We give passes to players all the time when they are good at other areas. Great defenders with awful offense. Great offensive players that don't play Defense.

Sure, there are rosters where they have a PG with more positives that it would be worth sitting Lin... that said, there aren't THAT many of them when you're talking 30 teams.

In the end, it's about winning. And if Lin helps a team Win versus a team's current roster, those teams will Pay.

djohn2oo8
07-14-2012, 09:52 AM
LAS VEGAS -- The Knicks are “unhappy’’ about a change in the terms of the Rockets’ offer sheet for Jeremy Lin, according to an NBA source, after the offer was bumped to $25 million guaranteed over three years,

Despite their anger, the Knicks still are expected to match it in the next three days. That doesn’t mean they are thrilled with their point-guard prodigy, who has a resume of 26 games with starter’s minutes. As of last night, the Knicks had not received the offer sheet in their hands as the Rockets continued to play games.

Knicks coach Mike Woodson, who gushed three days ago about Lin keeping his starting job when training camp opened, seemed cooler Friday.

When asked about Lin’s impending offer sheet, Woodson said, “I don’t know. Until we get it in hand and Glen [Grunwald, the general manager] is able to evaluate everything, we’ll make a decision.’’

The Knicks are committed to Lin despite signing Jason Kidd and Spanish League veteran Pablo Prigioni as point-guard mentors. But they are furious at the way this played out.

Lin went to Las Vegas yesterday to meet with the Rockets to renegotiate the offer sheet and never told the Knicks he was coming to town, The Post has learned. The Knicks held a double-session practice for their summer-league team yesterday.

The Knicks played hardball with Lin from the start, and Lin and his agents went right back at the Knicks. Rockets general manager Daryl Morey stuck it to the Knicks, too, as the ramped-up offer sheet calls for a bump in the third year of the contract to $14.9 million from the previously offered $9.3 million, which will hurt owner James Dolan badly in luxury-tax ramifications.

It begs this question: Will Dolan flip out and tell Grunwald to have Lin pack for Houston?

The back-loaded deal is something of a poison pill, and the Knicks will have salary commitments of about $87 million for eight players in 2014-15. That could be as much as $17 million over the luxury-tax threshold.

The original offer agreed upon last weekend was four years for $28.8 million, but only $19.5 million was guaranteed across the first three years. The final year was not guaranteed. There is no fourth year in the new offer sheet.

According to a source, Morey upped the offer because he heard the Knicks easily would match the old offer and had lost all his point guards. Morey is good friends with former Rockets center Yao Ming, Lin’s mentor.

The Knicks were angry even before yesterday at the Rockets because they did not receive the offer sheet on July 11, as is customary. It took two full days for Lin to sign it.

A source said Lin was too busy Wednesday at the ESPY Awards in Los Angeles, where he received the honor of “Breakthrough Athlete’’ and posed for pictures with Jessica Biel and Tim Tebow.

Because the Knicks wouldn’t make him an offer immediately after the start of free agency, Lin withdrew from the U.S. Select Team on July 5 that practiced against the Olympic team.

Woodson said he hoped Lin would attend the Knicks summer league practices to work out with the coaches.

Last month, Woodson said he was excited Lin would be on the Select Team.

Yesterday Woodson said, “You’ve got to live with it, but it’s not the end of the world. Any time you can experience something like that when you’re playing against the best talent in the world, it can’t do nothing but enhance or help your game. You can learn a lot from that experience. He chose not to play. They’re not going to stop because he didn’t play. They’re going to move on.’’

Houston was within its legal rights to alter the offer that was agreed upon July 6. Lin couldn’t sign until July 11. But it is very unusual for terms to be changed so dramatically.

The Knicks have until today to match the offer sheet to Lin’s buddy Landry Fields, who received a back-loaded offer totaling $19 million from the Raptors with $8.5 million for the third year. But now there’s no chance of that, with the third year — that 2014-15 season — becoming a big issue financially for Dolan




http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/lin_match_stick_SaOeWm9GmE9b6FjL2sxQLO?utm_medium= rss&utm_content=Knicks

Mr Costanza
07-14-2012, 09:58 AM
They made their own bed here saying publicly they will definitely match. Time to sleep in it.

LongIslandIcedZ
07-14-2012, 09:59 AM
Knicks ****ed up, dont say you'll match any offer, you lose your power.

Having said that, is this considered frowned upon around the league? I dont know many instances of this happening, but it could be totally normal.

StarvingKnick22
07-14-2012, 10:03 AM
rockets ****ed up what if lin is not good? who want money over championships?

StarvingKnick22
07-14-2012, 10:04 AM
this is better for the knicks, actually

StarvingKnick22
07-14-2012, 10:11 AM
ignorance leads us only to the thought of hope, which will guide us only to dissapointment.

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 10:11 AM
The Knicks offseason makes no sense without Jeremy Lin. They will match.

Big2win
07-14-2012, 10:12 AM
We still have Felton as an option. Let Houston roll the dice and see if Jeremy Lin can replicate Linsanity with no players.

StarvingKnick22
07-14-2012, 10:12 AM
Jeremy Lin is the false hope, and if he's not a top 10 PG, most of us will cry for our own ignorance

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 10:14 AM
To James Dolan, money was never the issue. If there was no salary cap new York would have a 125 million dollar payroll.

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 10:17 AM
We still have Felton as an option. Let Houston roll the dice and see if Jeremy Lin can replicate Linsanity with no players.

No, you are misinformed. The Knicks have only the minimum to pay any player from this point on. If Jeremy Lin goes to Houston, zero cap space opens up. Again, we get no extra cap space if we let Lin go. Therefore signing Felton is not going to happen.
Lin will indeed be a knick, it might suck in year three, but it's our only option.

xxplayerxx23
07-14-2012, 10:18 AM
I don't want him back at the other salary let alone this one. Felton should get the call.

HouRealCoach
07-14-2012, 10:18 AM
That's puppy chow to Dolan lol.. Go back to the mid to late 2000s he had WAY worse contracts than that

justinnum1
07-14-2012, 10:19 AM
lmao!

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 10:20 AM
Knicks ****ed up, dont say you'll match any offer, you lose your power.

Having said that, is this considered frowned upon around the league? I dont know many instances of this happening, but it could be totally normal.

Now this I agree with. Why would you announce you are matching no matter what?
Stupid tactic IMO. All it did was force the rockets FO to figure out a way to make this really hurt.

oak2455
07-14-2012, 10:21 AM
Knicks mad huh? :silly:

Ooooooo

xxplayerxx23
07-14-2012, 10:21 AM
Lin isnt even that good. He has potential but for 3 years 25 million with that 3rd year being so high let him go. But doaln wont

Knick_Fever
07-14-2012, 10:22 AM
Lin has some talent, but he wouldn't sniff the court on some teams just because of how often he turns the ball over. He put up some flashy stats, but I think he's incredibly overrated because the negatives really aren't being taken into consideration. He also has a lot of off the court value, which inflates people's views of him as well. On the Sixers, for example, he'd never be allowed to play because of his ridiculous turnover rate. Even if he was a 20 ppg player, if you can't take care of the ball, you can't stay out there on the floor. That's how it is for a lot of teams. Obviously D'Antoni's system didn't emphasize that.

There's one big problem with your statement though. "If you can't take care of the ball, you can't stay out there on the floor." That maybe true for any player in this league, but Lin isn't just "any" player. WE STILL PRODUCED WINS!!!

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 10:26 AM
I don't want him back at the other salary let alone this one. Felton should get the call.

Knicks: "hey Raymond, remember the success you had here in new York?"
Felton: "I loved playing there"
Knicks: "we can bring you back at the veterans minimum"
Felton: " CLICK "

Lin at 5 million the next two years is great, at 14 million year three...ouch. Still better than Derrick Rose at 20 million watching the season from his lazyboy knowing he will never be the same player again. That contract sucks.

Jarvo
07-14-2012, 10:28 AM
Now some Knicks fans saying he isnt even that good? The front office ****ed up big time saying they'll match any offer blame them.

xxplayerxx23
07-14-2012, 10:29 AM
Knicks: "hey Raymond, remember the success you had here in new York?"
Felton: "I loved playing there"
Knicks: "we can bring you back at the veterans minimum"
Felton: " CLICK "

Lin at 5 million the next two years is great, at 14 million year three...ouch. Still better than Derrick Rose at 20 million watching the season from his lazyboy knowing he will never be the same player again. That contract sucks.

Im not 100 percent sure but I think we can offer more then the vet min. Number 2 are you kidding. lmaooo rose in the same sentence at lin. I cant believe what I just read. When he comes back next year and is the same going into the playoffs Ill bring this post up to you. Lin is nothing at all he has some potential but not a make or break for a championship

justinnum1
07-14-2012, 10:29 AM
this is better for the knicks, actually

If you guys want to pay more lux tax then its great for the knicks.

jp611
07-14-2012, 10:29 AM
Oh, the Knicks continue to be the laughingstock of the league, stay tight-lipped like the great organizations do... Look at Miami, you HARDLY ever hear anything from Riley and their FO, only reason you heard anything about Ray Allen was because he was interested in signing there and made it known... As a Bulls fan it is kind of frustrating that the Bulls are so tight-lipped but its for the teams own good

Knick_Fever
07-14-2012, 10:29 AM
Im not even bringing that game up right now, you are. He hit a game winner, thats awesome. :clap:

I would take chalmers over him and not even based on that game, miami needs a guy that can hit 3's and defend. 2 things that chamlers does better than lin.

Well to be completely rational Miami actually needs a true point guard. They don't need Lin, they don't need Mario. All aside, they both would get the job done in Miami one way or the other. I mean you or I could play on that team and it wouldn't matter. Lebron, Wade, Bosh. After that you don't need much.

xxplayerxx23
07-14-2012, 10:29 AM
Now some Knicks fans saying he isnt even that good? The front office ****ed up big time saying they'll match any offer blame them.

If you want you can go see my posts when he was first testing the market. I hope we dont match. He isnt that good but he does have some potential/

Sly Guy
07-14-2012, 10:30 AM
yikes.....Is he really worth this much? He's got what, 25 games of track record? He hasn't even played against every team yet!

xxplayerxx23
07-14-2012, 10:31 AM
Oh, the Knicks continue to be the laughingstock of the league, stay tight-lipped like the great organizations do... Look at Miami, you HARDLY ever hear anything from Riley and their FO, only reason you heard anything about Ray Allen was because he was interested in signing there and made it known... As a Bulls fan it is kind of frustrating that the Bulls are so tight-lipped but its for the teams own good


Lol. laughingstock of the league no. On PSD probally so.

justinnum1
07-14-2012, 10:32 AM
Knicks: "hey Raymond, remember the success you had here in new York?"
Felton: "I loved playing there"
Knicks: "we can bring you back at the veterans minimum"
Felton: " CLICK "

Lin at 5 million the next two years is great, at 14 million year three...ouch. Still better than Derrick Rose at 20 million watching the season from his lazyboy knowing he will never be the same player again. That contract sucks.

Rose makes 15mil next season and when he comes back in march even at 50% he is better than lin.

jp611
07-14-2012, 10:33 AM
Lol. laughingstock of the league no. On PSD probally so.

They're going to have 90 million tied up in 6 players... They're going to be paying out of the wazoo in luxury tax... They also are going to be doing that with a team that's probably not capable of much more than 2nd round exits, Atlanta Hawks 2.0

xxplayerxx23
07-14-2012, 10:36 AM
They're going to have 90 million tied up in 6 players... They're going to be paying out of the wazoo in luxury tax... They also are going to be doing that with a team that's probably not capable of much more than 2nd round exits, Atlanta Hawks 2.0

If dolan is willing to pay thats on him. They are better then the Hawks. No team in the east besides miami is a definte to beat the Knicks. If the knicks can go into the playoffs healthy they would have a shot vs anyone.

blues
07-14-2012, 10:40 AM
At this juncture, I'd just as soon let the Rockets keep Lin and have the Knicks pursue alternatives.

To me Lin is a fraud. He's not the humble, pious persona he pretended to be and his body of work on the court (thus far) does not justify the contract he is wringing out of his prospective suitors.

IMHO, he's a one trick pony who figures this is his one shot to garner a fat payday before the house of cards collapses. I might not blame him for that avarice if it weren't for the false humility act he tried to front to Knicks fans last season.

Pick your poison, but if he returns I foresee a lot of groans and head slaps in the coming season as his true talent level is exposed further.

Just one fan's opinion.

koetravis
07-14-2012, 10:41 AM
Except the Heat, they are too good.

Corey
07-14-2012, 10:42 AM
They're going to have 90 million tied up in 6 players... They're going to be paying out of the wazoo in luxury tax... They also are going to be doing that with a team that's probably not capable of much more than 2nd round exits, Atlanta Hawks 2.0

Pretty much agree.

Verbal Christ
07-14-2012, 10:43 AM
Awww the kinks are "angry " poo widdle babies. Hahaha

I love the way morey plays the kinks. Its a thing of beauty. The rest of the league hopes y'all match too it will be the easiest million they'll ever make with the 30 MILL luxury tax dopan will "gladly " pay because Lin is such a cash cow yada yada. Hopefully that knee doesn't act up anymore.

xxplayerxx23
07-14-2012, 10:44 AM
Awww the kinks are "angry " poo widdle babies. Hahaha

I love the way morey plays the kinks. Its a thing of beauty. The rest of the league hopes y'all match too it will be the easiest million they'll ever make with the 30 MILL luxury tax dopan will "gladly " pay because Lin is such a cash cow yada yada. Hopefully that knee doesn't act up anymore.

hmm are you by an chance a Rocket fan?

Knick_Fever
07-14-2012, 10:44 AM
That's simply not true. He is asked to play as a combo guard. Some plays he doesnt touch the ball, others he is asked to make something happen with it.

He has won us games in the finals, is not afraid of taking big shots and is a good defender. he is exactly what miami needs from their pg position.

To say he struggles to keep an NBA job outside miami is flat out false.

Let me tell you something justinnum1. Forget you were a heat fan for one minute and lets put aside the Lin vs. Mario debate. I'll even throw in the towel and give Mario the edge just because he was on the winning team. If Mario struggles consistently to take advantage of Miami's dynamic trio, theres a problem there. The guy can't average anymore than 3 asst. a game on that team, he doesn't belong there. The fact that you say he's "exactly" what you need is ridiculously alarming and overstated. Sure he can hit a three or make a solid defensive play once in a while. But why do you think Wade and Lebron are constantly in his ear about his mistakes? Because Mario is asked to do little but struggles with basic consistency. But on the bright side, that is just a true testament to Lebron's greatness. Because not matter what, Lebron is always there to clean up other's mistakes.

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 10:46 AM
Rose coming back at 150%. Lol

justinnum1
07-14-2012, 10:46 AM
knicks pay roll would be like 90 mil in 3 years...thats like over 60million in luxury tax lol



Rose coming back at 150%. Lol

rose at 50% if better than lin.

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 10:47 AM
If dolan is willing to pay thats on him. They are better then the Hawks. No team in the east besides miami is a definte to beat the Knicks. If the knicks can go into the playoffs healthy they would have a shot vs anyone.

Absolutely

calibird707
07-14-2012, 10:48 AM
People act like the knicks havent improved...when shumpert comes back they are gonna be one of the deepest teams in the leauge...it sucks that they are gonna have to pay that 14 mill in year 3...but it is not the fans money its dolans money...honestly miami is the only team in the east that is head an d shoulders above the knicks.....we will be right there with chi and boston....18-6 under woodson...3rd in defense after woodson took over....then we add kidd and camby 2 more smart solid defenders...we will finish any where from 2-4...keep hatin

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 10:48 AM
knicks pay roll would be like 90 mil in 3 years...thats like over 60million in luxury tax lol




rose at 50% if better than lin.

Statistically....no. Who is comparing rose to Lin anyway?

justinnum1
07-14-2012, 10:51 AM
Let me tell you something justinnum1. Forget you were a heat fan for one minute and lets put aside the Lin vs. Mario debate. I'll even throw in the towel and give Mario the edge just because he was on the winning team. If Mario struggles consistently to take advantage of Miami's dynamic trio, theres a problem there. The guy can't average anymore than 3 asst. a game on that team, he doesn't belong there. The fact that you say he's "exactly" what you need is ridiculously alarming and overstated. Sure he can hit a three or make a solid defensive play once in a while. But why do you think Wade and Lebron are constantly in his ear about his mistakes? Because Mario is asked to do little and struggles to even to do that is sad. But on the bright side, that is just a true testament to Lebron's greatness. Because not matter what, Lebron is always there to clean up other's mistakes.

He doesnt avg more than 3 ast because he doesnt handle the ball. Try watching a heat game before you give an opinion on them. His job is to dribble it up the court and give it to lebron, hit 3's and play defense. He does all those things well. They are in his ear because thats the relationship they have with him. Nice try and good effort but you clearly have no clue what your talking about. Mario over lin all day long on miami. Last thing miami needs a turnover prone, poor 3pt shooter and terrible defender that lin is.

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 10:53 AM
Derrick Rose at 50% .....10.4 ppt 3.4 APG
Nope not very good at 50%

justinnum1
07-14-2012, 10:53 AM
Statistically....no. Who is comparing rose to Lin anyway?


Knicks: "hey Raymond, remember the success you had here in new York?"
Felton: "I loved playing there"
Knicks: "we can bring you back at the veterans minimum"
Felton: " CLICK "

Lin at 5 million the next two years is great, at 14 million year three...ouch. Still better than Derrick Rose at 20 million watching the season from his lazyboy knowing he will never be the same player again. That contract sucks.

YOU ARE
:punish:

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 10:55 AM
People act like the knicks havent improved...when shumpert comes back they are gonna be one of the deepest teams in the leauge...it sucks that they are gonna have to pay that 14 mill in year 3...but it is not the fans money its dolans money...honestly miami is the only team in the east that is head an d shoulders above the knicks.....we will be right there with chi and boston....18-6 under woodson...3rd in defense after woodson took over....then we add kidd and camby 2 more smart solid defenders...we will finish any where from 2-4...keep hatin

Shhhh, no one wants to read a post based on reality. Gotta just post stuff like derrick rose at 40% makes the hall of fame, and he will be back at 150% because he is super human.

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 10:57 AM
YOU ARE
:punish:

No, I was comparing salaries, never compared the two players statistically at all. Lin at 25 million might be high, but paying rose to sit out...that stinks. That in no way compared their on the court play.

nbrod
07-14-2012, 10:57 AM
Stupid move by the Knicks to say they'll match any offer

justinnum1
07-14-2012, 10:58 AM
No, I was comparing salaries, never compared the two players statistically at all. Lin at 25 million might be high, but paying rose to sit out...that stinks. That in no way compared their on the court play.

Wrong, rose makes 15mil and will be back late next season. rose at 50% is better than lin any day.

Jarvo
07-14-2012, 10:59 AM
If you want you can go see my posts when he was first testing the market. I hope we dont match. He isnt that good but he does have some potential/

He is overhyped, But he's the best you can do now and he'll go in as the starter with help from Kidd so I hope he gets better. But damn matchin the offer is going to suck for you guys.

knicksfan42
07-14-2012, 11:00 AM
Lin isnt even that good. He has potential but for 3 years 25 million with that 3rd year being so high let him go. But doaln wont

Holy ****:facepalm: How many times does this have to be explained? Yes Lin is overpaid, but it does not matter in terms of our ability to make moves whether we pay him the absolute minimum or the max, because we are over the soft cap for the next 3 years anyway.


If Dolan just let Lin go as you're suggesting then the only other PG we can acquire is one for the vet min who is undoubtedly worse than Lin. We are acquiring the best PG we can acquire without in anyway hampering our ability to make moves in the future.

LakersIn5
07-14-2012, 11:01 AM
We still have Felton as an option. Let Houston roll the dice and see if Jeremy Lin can replicate Linsanity with no players.

LOL! linsanity started with melo and amare out so what are you saying if lin can do it with no players?

PREPBALLFAN
07-14-2012, 11:01 AM
This is called buisness and the rockets are playing hardball................ They made it as tough as possible for the knicks its just buisness................

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 11:02 AM
Wrong, rose makes 15mil and will be back late next season. rose at 50% is better than lin any day.

Again, he 50% thing is just not working for you.
Why don't you show me statistically how that would work.

nystandup
07-14-2012, 11:02 AM
Here we go again. According to "sources" the Knicks are upset...Why should I care how much Dolan pays in luxury tax?

TwoBit
07-14-2012, 11:04 AM
Rockets are just screwing the Knicks and laughing at the pain they're putting dolan through imo.

marj987
07-14-2012, 11:04 AM
:violin:

DoMeFavors
07-14-2012, 11:04 AM
This kid is a 1 hit wonder once Knicks resign him I bet he is a shell of what he was in early 2012. I say you dont resign him.

StarvingKnick22
07-14-2012, 11:05 AM
This is called buisness and the rockets are playing hardball................ They made it as tough as possible for the knicks its just buisness................

54 posts since 08... where have you been?

nystandup
07-14-2012, 11:05 AM
No, I was comparing salaries, never compared the two players statistically at all. Lin at 25 million might be high, but paying rose to sit out...that stinks. That in no way compared their on the court play.

He just likes to troll

nystandup
07-14-2012, 11:06 AM
This kid is a 1 hit wonder once Knicks resign him I bet he is a shell of what he was in early 2012. I say you dont resign him.

You would think that

marj987
07-14-2012, 11:07 AM
Just move on and stick with Kidd, go cheaper and sign Aaron brooks.

knicksfan42
07-14-2012, 11:07 AM
But damn matchin the offer is going to suck for you guys.

How? How is it going to suck for the team. We could have paid Lin the absolute minimum and our ability to make moves would remain the same.

StarvingKnick22
07-14-2012, 11:07 AM
Rockets are just screwing the Knicks and laughing at the pain they're putting dolan through imo.

what? two dad taylor, have you seen what the knicks did this offseason? He could care less for this situation

marj987
07-14-2012, 11:07 AM
I don't even think Lin likes New York.

knicksfan42
07-14-2012, 11:09 AM
Just move on and stick with Kidd, go cheaper and sign Aaron brooks.

How would we sign Aaron Brooks if we even wanted to? With the vet min? If we could sign him with the vet min we could sign him now, even after we've signed Lin.

Knicks21
07-14-2012, 11:10 AM
In the final year of his contract 2014/15, everyone is coming off the books, Kidd, Chandler, Camby, Melo, Shumpert, Amare, Lin. Its only for one year, plus dolan had like 100m dollar pay roll as a lottery team, you think he cares...

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 11:10 AM
This kid is a 1 hit wonder once Knicks resign him I bet he is a shell of what he was in early 2012. I say you dont resign him.

There you go. An intelligent post based on ...........absolutely nothing

BSplaya2121
07-14-2012, 11:11 AM
worst case scenario, Lin doesnt pan out..... the third year would be a major expiring contract for the final year. Teams might want that. Best case scenario, he is worth every penny, I dont mind this at all

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 11:11 AM
In the final year of his contract, everyone is coming off the books, Kidd, Chandler, Camby, Melo, Shumpert, Amare. Its only for one year, plus dolan had like 100m dollar pay roll as a lottery team, you think he cares...

Careful, most here don't understand how the cap, or contracts work.
You speak the truth.

xxplayerxx23
07-14-2012, 11:12 AM
Holy ****:facepalm: How many times does this have to be explained? Yes Lin is overpaid, but it does not matter in terms of our ability to make moves whether we pay him the absolute minimum or the max, because we are over the soft cap for the next 3 years anyway.


If Dolan just let Lin go as you're suggesting then the only other PG we can acquire is one for the vet min who is undoubtedly worse than Lin. We are acquiring the best PG we can acquire without in anyway hampering our ability to make moves in the future.

I think we have a the Bi-annual. Sign felton withthat or even Brooks like the other guy said. :facepalm: me for not thinking lin is good ok.

justinnum1
07-14-2012, 11:13 AM
Just move on and stick with Kidd, go cheaper and sign Aaron brooks.

that would make to much sense

Knick_Fever
07-14-2012, 11:14 AM
He doesnt avg more than 3 ast because he doesnt handle the ball. Try watching a heat game before you give an opinion on them. His job is to dribble it up the court and give it to lebron, hit 3's and play defense. He does all those things well. They are in his ear because thats the relationship they have with him. Nice try and good effort but you clearly have no clue what your talking about. Mario over lin all day long on miami. Last thing miami needs a turnover prone, poor 3pt shooter and terrible defender that lin is.

"Thats that relationship they have with him" lol, wow is that your best shot? You my friend are in serious denial. Mario sucks, period. Oh and I've watched plenty Heat games bro. Lets dissect this ridiculous statement of yours - "His job is to dribble it up the court and give it to lebron." You, right then and there admitted that the Heat can't trust him to facilitate. I mean are you kidding me? That is your argument to why he's a better player than Lin? It just shows how extremely limited he is.

torocan
07-14-2012, 11:14 AM
The New York Knicks Manual - How to Pay the Maximum for a Player

1. Woodson says in early Interviews that he believes a Rookie's place is to "sit and learn". Woodson than says in later interviews that he does not know if Lin will be the starter. A resounding vote of confidence...

2. Lin makes clear in Interviews that he would like to play for the Knicks again, that the Knicks are his first choice, but that he realizes that basketball is a Business and he can't predict what will happen. He has clearly taken the lessons of being Cut twice to heart.

3. The Knicks do NOT offer Lin an initial contract in an attempt to play "hardball", and instead offer him a QO telling him to "establish" his market value.

4. Lin is forced to drop from the USA Select Team in order to test his Free Agency -- a commitment he probably would not have made if he thought he was going to be shopping for a contract for an extended period of time.

5. The Knicks pursue Steve Nash, an acquisition that would end not only in Lin being benched, but his best Friend being put on the trading block to Phoenix. Another reminder that Basketball is a business.

6. The Knicks do NOT offer Lin's best friend a contract to return, resulting in him getting a 3 year/$20M contract from the Raptors in an attempt to block the Nash trade. The Knicks debate matching.

7. Reports surface that the Knicks FO might NOT match an Offer Sheet to Lin if it approaches or exceeds $10M+ in year 3 and 4.

8. The Nash trade falls through. Woodson says in interviews that "Lin is unquestionably the starter!"

9. Jeremy Lin recieves a reported contract offer within days of 4 years/$28M dollars, with a backload of $9.3M in years 3 and 4, demonstrating that there is a substantial market for his services.

10. The Knicks advertise far and wide that not only will they match Lin's offer, but reports surface that the Knicks will match up to $1 BILLION.

11. Reports surface that Lin is disappointed that the Knicks did not try to secure him PRIOR to FA with some sort of offer. Lin denies that he is upset with the Knicks through his twitter.

12. Houston loses Dragic and Lowry. Unable to secure another starting PG, Houston decides to make another play for Lin... and offers the MAX in a 3 year/$25M backloaded and fully guaranteed contract.

13. Lin, sitting at a table with a Morey, staring at a Max contract for 3 years decides to sign. Had he not signed, he would have NO offer sheet to match and be facing the prospect of shopping more teams, or accepting a QO for the Veteran's minimum.

14. The Knicks are upset that the offer is now Higher. Apparently the "market value" was not nearly as palatable as they had hoped.

15. To be continued...


Sorry, I love the Knicks buy my sympathy for the FO is limited on this one.

I feel they dropped the ball from the beginning, and honestly believe they would have had a good shot at re-signing Lin for the 4 years/$25M allowed by the Early Bird prior to FA if they had made Lin a priority signing from the start and not sent out mixed messages.

And really, telling everyone you'll pay $1 BILLION? That's just begging someone to raise the contract price...

As for Jeremy, I can easily imagine this sort of scenario happening in Las Vegas...

Lin's Agent : Thank you for the offer, but I think the Knicks are going to re-sign Jeremy.
Morey : Well, we don't have a PG right now, and we're looking to get Howard. What's it going to take to get Lin to sign and the Knicks not to match?
Lin's Agent : Not sure, Lin's popular and Dolan is rich.. probably at least the Maximum in year 3.
Morey : What a coincidence! This offer just happens to be 3 years for the Max...
Lin's Agent : Jeremy, I know you like the Knicks, but this is $6M. If you don't sign it, you're going to need to shop again, and there's no telling who the high bidder will be... it could be anyone. A team like Charlotte, NO... who knows? I know you like the Knicks, but if the Knicks want you they'll pay. And if they don't, you already know and like the Houston staff and you have $6M in your pocket. You know what it's like to be cut, and for Teams to walk on you. If you pass on this and you don't get another offer, and if Houston retracts the offer you might even end up getting paid League minimum... with nothing to show for the FA except missing the USA Select team, and the Knicks making a ton of money off your while you make virtually nothing.
Lin : *sigh* Where's the pen...

I don't blame Lin at all for signing. I certainly don't blame Morey... his back is against a wall and he knows at a minimum Lin will make Houston a ton of money. Owners don't fire GM's that make you even richer.

I do blame the Knicks FO for dropping the ball at every step of the way.

Could they have signed Lin for 4 years/$25M? Who knows... but it would have been nice if they had at least TRIED.

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 11:15 AM
Lin has all the athletic ability you need o succeed in the NBA
Speed, smarts, scoring, passing, savvy.
His story baffles people who continue to doubt his ability. Because it makes no sense.
For once, reality makes no sense to the dreamers.

KnickNyKnick
07-14-2012, 11:15 AM
lol this dosnt matter. The Knicks have plenty, im sure dolan would push half a billion with no cap and have the USA team starting 5.

The good thing is, after the 3rd year. Its gonna be cap heaven for the Knicks. Novak will be the only guy on the roster. LoL!

Trust me the luxury tax isnt a problem

The Problem is, is lin worth that Contract? Good trade piece anyway if he dosnt work out.

The Knicks are BACK!

allday823
07-14-2012, 11:16 AM
Domefavors is the joke of psd haha who knows maybe its skip bayless:rolleyes:

torocan
07-14-2012, 11:16 AM
I think we have a the Bi-annual. Sign felton withthat or even Brooks like the other guy said. :facepalm: me for not thinking lin is good ok.

You lose the bi-annual and full mid-level as soon as you hit luxury tax (which the team has hit already without even signing Lin).

We also used the mini-midlevel and most of our trade pieces in acquiring Camby and Kidd. We have maybe vet min + $1M in tradable contracts.

justinnum1
07-14-2012, 11:19 AM
"Thats that relationship they have with him" lol, wow is that your best shot? You my friend are in serious denial. Mario sucks, period.

:laugh:

knicksfan42
07-14-2012, 11:19 AM
I think we have a the Bi-annual. Sign felton withthat or even Brooks like the other guy said. :facepalm: me for not thinking lin is good ok.

I believe if we use the Bi-Annual a hard cap is enacted. So we do not have the bi-annual and even if we did we its almost the same as the vet min, 1.6 million vs 1.4. No good PGs available for that price.


Even if you believe Lin isn't that good and Brooks and Felton are better we have no money to sign them. You get a :facepalm: because you clearly have no understanding of the cap situation.


If the team did what you proposed and not matched Lin's offer sheet, despite the fact that it would not in anyway hamper our ability to make moves, we would be a worse team period. Signing him for the min or the max only changes how much Dolan pays and nothing else.

Knicks21
07-14-2012, 11:19 AM
The New York Knicks Manual - How to Pay the Maximum for a Player

1. Woodson says in early Interviews that he believes a Rookie's place is to "sit and learn". Woodson than says in later interviews that he does not know if Lin will be the starter. A resounding vote of confidence...

2. Lin makes clear in Interviews that he would like to play for the Knicks again, that the Knicks are his first choice, but that he realizes that basketball is a Business and he can't predict what will happen. He has clearly taken the lessons of being Cut twice to heart.

3. The Knicks do NOT offer Lin an initial contract in an attempt to play "hardball", and instead offer him a QO telling him to "establish" his market value.

4. Lin is forced to drop from the USA Select Team in order to test his Free Agency -- a commitment he probably would not have made if he thought he was going to be shopping for a contract for an extended period of time.

5. The Knicks pursue Steve Nash, an acquisition that would end not only in Lin being benched, but his best Friend being put on the trading block to Phoenix. Another reminder that Basketball is a business.

6. The Knicks do NOT offer Lin's best friend a contract to return, resulting in him getting a 3 year/$20M contract from the Raptors in an attempt to block the Nash trade. The Knicks debate matching.

7. Reports surface that the Knicks FO might NOT match an Offer Sheet to Lin if it approaches or exceeds $10M+ in year 3 and 4.

8. The Nash trade falls through. Woodson says in interviews that "Lin is unquestionably the starter!"

9. Jeremy Lin recieves a reported contract offer within days of 4 years/$28M dollars, with a backload of $9.3M in years 3 and 4, demonstrating that there is a substantial market for his services.

10. The Knicks advertise far and wide that not only will they match Lin's offer, but reports surface that the Knicks will match up to $1 BILLION.

11. Reports surface that Lin is disappointed that the Knicks did not try to secure him PRIOR to FA with some sort of offer. Lin denies that he is upset with the Knicks through his twitter.

12. Houston loses Dragic and Lowry. Unable to secure another starting PG, Houston decides to make another play for Lin... and offers the MAX in a 3 year/$25M backloaded and fully guaranteed contract.

13. Lin, sitting at a table with a Morey, staring at a Max contract for 3 years decides to sign. Had he not signed, he would have NO offer sheet to match and be facing the prospect of shopping more teams, or accepting a QO for the Veteran's minimum.

14. The Knicks are upset that the offer is now Higher. Apparently the "market value" was not nearly as palatable as they had hoped.

15. To be continued...


Sorry, I love the Knicks buy my sympathy for the FO is limited on this one.

I feel they dropped the ball from the beginning, and honestly believe they would have had a good shot at re-signing Lin for the 4 years/$25M allowed by the Early Bird prior to FA if they had made Lin a priority signing from the start and not sent out mixed messages.

And really, telling everyone you'll pay $1 BILLION? That's just begging someone to raise the contract price...

As for Jeremy, I can easily imagine this sort of scenario happening in Las Vegas...

Lin's Agent : Thank you for the offer, but I think the Knicks are going to re-sign Jeremy.
Morey : Well, we don't have a PG right now, and we're looking to get Howard. What's it going to take to get Lin to sign and the Knicks not to match?
Lin's Agent : Not sure, Lin's popular and Dolan is rich.. probably at least the Maximum in year 3.
Morey : What a coincidence! This offer just happens to be 3 years for the Max...
Lin's Agent : Jeremy, I know you like the Knicks, but this is $6M. If you don't sign it, you're going to need to shop again, and there's no telling who the high bidder will be... it could be anyone. A team like Charlotte, NO... who knows? I know you like the Knicks, but if the Knicks want you they'll pay. And if they don't, you already know and like the Houston staff and you have $6M in your pocket. You know what it's like to be cut, and for Teams to walk on you. If you pass on this and you don't get another offer, and if Houston retracts the offer you might even end up getting paid League minimum... with nothing to show for the FA except missing the USA Select team, and the Knicks making a ton of money off your while you make virtually nothing.
Lin : *sigh* Where's the pen...

I don't blame Lin at all for signing. I certainly don't blame Morey... his back is against a wall and he knows at a minimum Lin will make Houston a ton of money. Owners don't fire GM's that make you even richer.

I do blame the Knicks FO for dropping the ball at every step of the way.

Could they have signed Lin for 4 years/$25M? Who knows... but it would have been nice if they had at least TRIED.

Who said that? New York Post? Incarcerated Bob?

As far as I am concerned a so called 'source' came out and said the knicks will match anything up to a billion dollars, hence nobody in the Knick organisation said this, it is just his impression on the situation.



And the Knick FO has done an excellent job, we have (If Jeremy signs) roughly 85m coming off the books in 2014/15.

elledaddy
07-14-2012, 11:20 AM
Oh, the Knicks continue to be the laughingstock of the league, stay tight-lipped like the great organizations do... Look at Miami, you HARDLY ever hear anything from Riley and their FO, only reason you heard anything about Ray Allen was because he was interested in signing there and made it known... As a Bulls fan it is kind of frustrating that the Bulls are so tight-lipped but its for the teams own good

The Knicks are the laughingstock of the NBA according to who? Not to these guys they're not in 2011 & 2012..

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/32/basketball-valuations-11_land.html

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/emdm45hle/4-new-york-knicks/#gallerycontent

DoMeFavors
07-14-2012, 11:20 AM
I see some Knick fans write who cares what Lins payed since Knicks are over the cap anyway...but the Nets were the same way with Lopez and most of you called him overpayed.

torocan
07-14-2012, 11:21 AM
To me Lin is a fraud. He's not the humble, pious persona he pretended to be and his body of work on the court (thus far) does not justify the contract he is wringing out of his prospective suitors.

Humble doesn't mean you're a chump.

Giving up millions of dollars doesn't make you Humble, it makes you stupid.

You can say Lin isn't getting what he's worth, but by definition he is because at least ONE team (Two if you include the Knicks) is willing to PAY.

We might not like the end result, we might see players as overpaid, in the end, it's not up to us. Dolan told Lin to establish his Market Value... don't jump all over Lin because he did what Dolan asked.

Analysts don't set contract value... the guys who cut the checks do.

justinnum1
07-14-2012, 11:21 AM
The Knicks are the laughingstock of the NBA according to who? Not to these guys they're not..

http://www.forbes.com/2011/01/26/knicks-lakers-bulls-business-sports-basketball-valuations-11-teams_slide.html

Thats because they have the most fans and are located in the most populated city in the country. That ranking certainly doesn't reflect team success.

Knicks just make a lot of amateur moves, plus you have dolan calling the shots. Maybe your a brand new bandwagon knick fan and have no clue how hard dolan has screwed your team but dont let most valuable cloud the fact that they are not a very good organization.

xxplayerxx23
07-14-2012, 11:22 AM
You lose the bi-annual and full mid-level as soon as you hit luxury tax (which the team has hit already without even signing Lin).

We also used the mini-midlevel and most of our trade pieces in acquiring Camby and Kidd. We have maybe vet min + $1M in tradable contracts.


I read that if we sign and trade then we still got the Mini one But thats ok brooks should get the call over lin. Cheap and has jsut as much potential

Knicks21
07-14-2012, 11:22 AM
I see some Knick fans write who cares what Lins payed since Knicks are over the cap anyway...but the Nets were the same way with Lopez and most of you called him overpayed.

Lin will be overpaid in his final year, first two are reasonable.

NYSpirit1
07-14-2012, 11:22 AM
It was widely reported that Lin signed a 4 year, $28 million dollar deal with the fourth year being a player option. Knowing he was getting that money and knowing the Knicks were going to match - did he completely screw them?

He's very greedy and if anything, has completely eradicated all the humbleness he had during the season. He acts like a star and a primadonna, which is honestly disappointing because he seemed like a good guy when the fame hadn't gotten to his head.

And, 'he's only doing what everyone else would do', is not an excuse. A millionaire is a millionaire. If you're $20 million dollars rich or $25 million dollars rich, you're still set for life regardless. And he's only 23, it coming to a point where maybe he doesn't have the confidence to be good so he thinks he won't get another contract. Jeremy Lin: You haven't proven yourself to get max money in 14-15 yet, perform on the court, then get rewarded.

I'm more angry at Lin than at the Rockets, as this guy has completely changed his tune since February and is VERY ungrateful. The reports of him being upset at the Knicks are probably true.

To put this in place, in 14-15, if you are like 15 million over the luxury tax (which the Knicks will be), you have to pay 4.75 for every dollar. So the Lin deal of an extra $5.6, is a real cost of $26.6 million. So essentially, to keep Lin, they're paying an extra $36 million to in 14-15 to keep him. :facepalm:

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 11:23 AM
The New York Knicks Manual - How to Pay the Maximum for a Player

1. Woodson says in early Interviews that he believes a Rookie's place is to "sit and learn". Woodson than says in later interviews that he does not know if Lin will be the starter. A resounding vote of confidence...

2. Lin makes clear in Interviews that he would like to play for the Knicks again, that the Knicks are his first choice, but that he realizes that basketball is a Business and he can't predict what will happen. He has clearly taken the lessons of being Cut twice to heart.

3. The Knicks do NOT offer Lin an initial contract in an attempt to play "hardball", and instead offer him a QO telling him to "establish" his market value.

4. Lin is forced to drop from the USA Select Team in order to test his Free Agency -- a commitment he probably would not have made if he thought he was going to be shopping for a contract for an extended period of time.

5. The Knicks pursue Steve Nash, an acquisition that would end not only in Lin being benched, but his best Friend being put on the trading block to Phoenix. Another reminder that Basketball is a business.

6. The Knicks do NOT offer Lin's best friend a contract to return, resulting in him getting a 3 year/$20M contract from the Raptors in an attempt to block the Nash trade. The Knicks debate matching.

7. Reports surface that the Knicks FO might NOT match an Offer Sheet to Lin if it approaches or exceeds $10M+ in year 3 and 4.

8. The Nash trade falls through. Woodson says in interviews that "Lin is unquestionably the starter!"

9. Jeremy Lin recieves a reported contract offer within days of 4 years/$28M dollars, with a backload of $9.3M in years 3 and 4, demonstrating that there is a substantial market for his services.

10. The Knicks advertise far and wide that not only will they match Lin's offer, but reports surface that the Knicks will match up to $1 BILLION.

11. Reports surface that Lin is disappointed that the Knicks did not try to secure him PRIOR to FA with some sort of offer. Lin denies that he is upset with the Knicks through his twitter.

12. Houston loses Dragic and Lowry. Unable to secure another starting PG, Houston decides to make another play for Lin... and offers the MAX in a 3 year/$25M backloaded and fully guaranteed contract.

13. Lin, sitting at a table with a Morey, staring at a Max contract for 3 years decides to sign. Had he not signed, he would have NO offer sheet to match and be facing the prospect of shopping more teams, or accepting a QO for the Veteran's minimum.

14. The Knicks are upset that the offer is now Higher. Apparently the "market value" was not nearly as palatable as they had hoped.

15. To be continued...


Sorry, I love the Knicks buy my sympathy for the FO is limited on this one.

I feel they dropped the ball from the beginning, and honestly believe they would have had a good shot at re-signing Lin for the 4 years/$25M allowed by the Early Bird prior to FA if they had made Lin a priority signing from the start and not sent out mixed messages.

And really, telling everyone you'll pay $1 BILLION? That's just begging someone to raise the contract price...

As for Jeremy, I can easily imagine this sort of scenario happening in Las Vegas...

Lin's Agent : Thank you for the offer, but I think the Knicks are going to re-sign Jeremy.
Morey : Well, we don't have a PG right now, and we're looking to get Howard. What's it going to take to get Lin to sign and the Knicks not to match?
Lin's Agent : Not sure, Lin's popular and Dolan is rich.. probably at least the Maximum in year 3.
Morey : What a coincidence! This offer just happens to be 3 years for the Max...
Lin's Agent : Jeremy, I know you like the Knicks, but this is $6M. If you don't sign it, you're going to need to shop again, and there's no telling who the high bidder will be... it could be anyone. A team like Charlotte, NO... who knows? I know you like the Knicks, but if the Knicks want you they'll pay. And if they don't, you already know and like the Houston staff and you have $6M in your pocket. You know what it's like to be cut, and for Teams to walk on you. If you pass on this and you don't get another offer, and if Houston retracts the offer you might even end up getting paid League minimum... with nothing to show for the FA except missing the USA Select team, and the Knicks making a ton of money off your while you make virtually nothing.
Lin : *sigh* Where's the pen...

I don't blame Lin at all for signing. I certainly don't blame Morey... his back is against a wall and he knows at a minimum Lin will make Houston a ton of money. Owners don't fire GM's that make you even richer.

I do blame the Knicks FO for dropping the ball at every step of the way.

Could they have signed Lin for 4 years/$25M? Who knows... but it would have been nice if they had at least TRIED.

Nice long post, but so much of it is your personal feelings and Clearly not based on facts.
Why do you not understand that the Knicks could not have offered 4 years and 25 million? The Knicks never had that kind of cap space. In order for the Knicks to sign Lin to that kind of money, they had to "match" an offer through Lins bird rights. In essence the only way to keep Lin and pay Lin this amount was to let him sign an offer with another team.
Say the Knicks had 7 extra million, why waste it on your own bird rights player? Use that $$$ to get a SG and you could still match any offer to Lin.
You just don't understand that what you propose was never available to the Knicks.

Knick_Fever
07-14-2012, 11:23 AM
:laugh:

Read the edited post.

nicegoing
07-14-2012, 11:24 AM
How the **** is he greedy? Please tell me. He's been in the league two years and wants to get paid. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER PLAYER IN THE NBA. Who the **** takes less money at his age????? You really are dumb, sorry. No one takes a pay cut at that age.

Knicks21
07-14-2012, 11:24 AM
Thats because they have the most fans and are located in the most populated city in the country. That ranking certainly doesn't reflect team success.

It almost always reflects on the market in sports, not the history.

xxplayerxx23
07-14-2012, 11:25 AM
I believe if we use the Bi-Annual a hard cap is enacted. So we do not have the bi-annual and even if we did we its almost the same as the vet min, 1.6 million vs 1.4. No good PGs available for that price.


Even if you believe Lin isn't that good and Brooks and Felton are better we have no money to sign them. You get a :facepalm: because you clearly have no understanding of the cap situation.


If the team did what you proposed and not matched Lin's offer sheet, despite the fact that it would not in anyway hamper our ability to make moves, we would be a worse team period. Signing him for the min or the max only changes how much Dolan pays and nothing else.

Saying what I read after the Camby move. Does not matter. If brooks would sign Id take him over lin. Same potential if not better. At the end it doesnt matter. Lin doesnt make or break our shot at a championship/

UofA
07-14-2012, 11:26 AM
Lin did absolutely nothing wrong here

xxplayerxx23
07-14-2012, 11:27 AM
Um he has to look out for himself first. What did you want from him?

black1605
07-14-2012, 11:27 AM
Not Lin's fault. He signed the best deal available.

torocan
07-14-2012, 11:27 AM
As far as I am concerned a so called 'source' came out and said the knicks will match anything up to a billion dollars, hence nobody in the Knick organisation said this, it is just his impression on the situation.

And the Knick FO has done an excellent job, we have (If Jeremy signs) roughly 85m coming off the books in 2014/15.

Okay, then how about we refer to previous interviews...

Prior to FA season...

Grunwald : I do not foresee any circumstance where Jeremy Lin does not return.

During FA season...

Woodson : Yes, we will absolutely be matching. Jeremy is a big part of our organization and will be the starting point guard.

And overall, I'm happy with how they've done this FA. I just think they dropped the ball with Lin.

The point is, they tipped their hand.

That's begging to be raised... it's like motioning to call in poker before the guy pushes a raise in. It's just begging for a bigger raise... and that's what they got.

justinnum1
07-14-2012, 11:28 AM
The knicks screwed themselves. They will be paying over 50mil in lux tax very soon. Dolan can say he doesnt care but when they are getting knocked out of the 2nd round he might. Should have never said they would match anything.

mavwar53
07-14-2012, 11:28 AM
To all knicks fans who think Dolan doesn't care about spending that kind of money, It easy to say when that cash isn't yours.

Do they match, probably but is Dolan worried cause Lin isn't a very good PG and the knicks have no chance of winning with him as the main ball handler.

Also luxury tax is much worse than it used to be so I don't buy any of that he's had a high payroll b4 crap

tc2deuce
07-14-2012, 11:29 AM
How the **** is he greedy? Please tell me. He's been in the league two years and wants to get paid. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER PLAYER IN THE NBA. Who the **** takes less money at his age????? You really are dumb, sorry. No one takes a pay cut at that age.

Bitter NY fan :clap:

Capital G
07-14-2012, 11:30 AM
lol not this fault. he is too young to take a cut.

plus, for all we know he was a fluke last year. why take less $ now when down the road, if he doesnt perform, he wont see that kind of money again?

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 11:30 AM
I see some Knick fans write who cares what Lins payed since Knicks are over the cap anyway...but the Nets were the same way with Lopez and most of you called him overpayed.

Lopez is a good not great player. Your argument pits Lin and his money against Lopez and his pact. Difference is that Lopez deal limits the nets from getting a guy like Howard. Lins deal changes only the luxury tax amount Dolan must pay.
If Brooklyn goes after D12 again in January, they better get him, because Lopez can't be happy about the way he is treated.

D12 fan
07-14-2012, 11:30 AM
Lin doesn't want to return to NY if you ask me,rumors are he doesn't like all the spotlight plus his boy Landry Fields is gone,he has no friends on the roster.

justinnum1
07-14-2012, 11:30 AM
Read the edited post.

:facepalm:

Why would we ever want chalmers to facilitate when we have lebron james?

YOu are really clueless about heat basketball. Stick to the knicks.

Vinny642
07-14-2012, 11:30 AM
Smart move by him

knicksfan42
07-14-2012, 11:30 AM
Saying what I read after the Camby move. Does not matter. If brooks would sign Id take him over lin. Same potential if not better. At the end it doesnt matter. Lin doesnt make or break our shot at a championship/

We used the mini-MLE to sign Kidd. We S&T'd for Camby. So we only have the vet min because we are over the luxury tax cap.


It does matter, because with Lin we are a better team than we are without him. Depending on how he pans out he can make our shot at a championship, though he certainly can't break it. Low risk, high reward.

xxplayerxx23
07-14-2012, 11:31 AM
The better question is did you screw Knick fans with another stupid NY related thread when there is a knicks forum?

torocan
07-14-2012, 11:32 AM
Morey has no PG and pushes a BIGGER offer in front of Lin, after Dolan TOLD him to establish his "market value".

And you expected him to what? Walk away?

It sure seemed like alot of Knicks posters thought that playing Hardball with Lin from the start was a good idea... sucks when it comes back to bite you in the butt doesn't it?

Lin went to HARVARD as an ECONOMICS major, AND he was smart enough to hire one of the best Agents in the business for the FA season.

It's a little late to complain when people liked the idea of getting Lin on the cheap by offering him a minimum QO...

And you're using the Luxury Tax penalty as an excuse? Lin didn't sign the mega Amare/Melo/Chandler contracts. Why should he take ANY financial hit for money going into THEIR pockets?

#hypocrisy

justinnum1
07-14-2012, 11:32 AM
Lin doesn't want to return to NY if you ask me,rumors are he doesn't like all the spotlight plus his boy Landry Fields is gone,he has no friends on the roster.

He can make friends with the waterboy, i see him spending a lot of time on the bench in the future

xxplayerxx23
07-14-2012, 11:33 AM
He can make friends with the waterboy, i see him spending a lot of time on the bench in the future

I dont get you lol your a troll half the time and knowledgeable the other half.

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 11:33 AM
The only reason the Knicks are in this situation is because Lin retained his bird rights, a boon for him and Novak.
The mot new York could have offered him was a deal like the one Novak signed.

ball4reel
07-14-2012, 11:34 AM
The better question is did you screw Knick fans with another stupid NY related thread when there is a knicks forum?

There should be a limit to how many threads you can make.:facepalm:

Knicks21
07-14-2012, 11:34 AM
I dont get you lol your a troll half the time and knowledgeable the other half.

I'd go 65/35 split, he is not quite at 50/50.

Knick_Fever
07-14-2012, 11:34 AM
:facepalm:

Why would we ever want chalmers to facilitate when we have lebron james?

YOu are really clueless about heat basketball. Stick to the knicks.

Thank you. Now all you need to say is that Lin is a better overall player then Chalmers. And all is well. :D

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 11:35 AM
He can make friends with the waterboy, i see him spending a lot of time on the bench in the future

You do understand that stupid posts like this make you sound like a ten year old and you lose any credibility with serious posters right?

AddiX
07-14-2012, 11:36 AM
Lins agent did his job well, really thats all there is to it.

Knicks21
07-14-2012, 11:36 AM
You do understand that stupid posts like this make you sound like a ten year old and you lose any credibility with serious posters right?

He is trolling, and you are feeding the fire just ignore him. 35 percent of the time he has knowledgeable things to say.

justinnum1
07-14-2012, 11:37 AM
You do understand that stupid posts like this make you sound like a ten year old and you lose any credibility with serious posters right?

It's called a joke, lighten up. You knicks fans attack anyone that doesn't sing praises about your unicorn.

Lin will be a knick, and we will find out how good he is over an 82 game sample instead of 25 games.

blues
07-14-2012, 11:37 AM
@torocan

I totally agree, the market ultimately decides value (as in all things), and no, we don't have to like it.

I've been a Knicks fan for close to 50 years...If they really hope to cash in on the merchandising money etc. I hope they'll consider a "reality" series since the dysfunctional family the Knicks have been and become is perfect fodder for the format. :rolleyes:

DoMeFavors
07-14-2012, 11:38 AM
Lopez is a good not great player. Your argument pits Lin and his money against Lopez and his pact. Difference is that Lopez deal limits the nets from getting a guy like Howard. Lins deal changes only the luxury tax amount Dolan must pay.
If Brooklyn goes after D12 again in January, they better get him, because Lopez can't be happy about the way he is treated.

Its not being treated bad, he is trying to be traded for THE BEST CENTER in the league.

torocan
07-14-2012, 11:38 AM
Nice long post, but so much of it is your personal feelings and Clearly not based on facts.
Why do you not understand that the Knicks could not have offered 4 years and 25 million? The Knicks never had that kind of cap space. In order for the Knicks to sign Lin to that kind of money, they had to "match" an offer through Lins bird rights. In essence the only way to keep Lin and pay Lin this amount was to let him sign an offer with another team.
Say the Knicks had 7 extra million, why waste it on your own bird rights player? Use that $$$ to get a SG and you could still match any offer to Lin.
You just don't understand that what you propose was never available to the Knicks.

...Because I am right and you are wrong.

When the Knicks won Lin's Early Bird case, they fell under the CBA regarding retaining Early Birds prior to Free Agency.

I shall refer you to this portion of the CBAFAQ... http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25


It also allows teams to exceed the cap to re-sign their own free agents, but with more limited contracts than the Larry Bird exception....

A team may use the Early Bird exception to re-sign its own free agent for up to 175% of his salary in the previous season2 (not over the maximum salary, of course) or 104.5% of the average salary in the previous season, whichever is greater (see question number 31 for the definition of "average salary").

The Knicks COULD have offered Lin up to a 4 year contract, starting at 104.5% of the LEAGUE AVERAGE, or approximatley $5M/year, which they could then scale league raises over the life of the contract without regard to the Salary Cap for a total of 4 years/$25M.

The Knicks were ALREADY over the salary cap ($58M) before even signing Lin, and with the existing signed contracts are actually over the Luxury Tax ($70M) Before signing Lin.

So, the Knicks could have offered a 4 year/$25M contract before even entering the FA period.

knicksfan42
07-14-2012, 11:39 AM
Okay, then how about we refer to previous interviews...

Prior to FA season...

Grunwald : I do not foresee any circumstance where Jeremy Lin does not return.

During FA season...

Woodson : Yes, we will absolutely be matching. Jeremy is a big part of our organization and will be the starting point guard.

And overall, I'm happy with how they've done this FA. I just think they dropped the ball with Lin.

The point is, they tipped their hand.

That's begging to be raised... it's like motioning to call in poker before the guy pushes a raise in. It's just begging for a bigger raise... and that's what they got.


I rarely disagree with you torocan, but you wrong here. I would put any amount of money on Lin testing the market to find the absolute best deal no matter what. He signed a new agent and refused to be on the US select team so he can get the best deal. Everything I've read has indicated to me that Lin was only after the largest possible paycheck he could find.

Now I get what you're saying with the FO should have made him an offer right from the start. I agree because it couldn't hurt, but I'm saying that I do not believe it would have made a difference. I think he would be signing this exact same deal right now if the FO did everything you said they did wrong right.

Captain Moroni
07-14-2012, 11:39 AM
Lin doesn't want to return to NY if you ask me,rumors are he doesn't like all the spotlight plus his boy Landry Fields is gone,he has no friends on the roster.

And Nash has no friends in Los Angeles
Johnson has no friends in Brooklyn
Fields has no friends in Toronto
Korver has no friends in Atlanta
Lin has no friends in Houston either!

On no, what are they going to do?

Punk
07-14-2012, 11:39 AM
Where does say they are unhappy? The is another media driven attempt at drama. It's ridiculous.

They are probably unhappy with the Rockets.

StarvingKnick22
07-14-2012, 11:40 AM
@torocan

I totally agree, the market ultimately decides value (as in all things), and no, we don't have to like it.

I've been a Knicks fan for close to 50 years...If they really hope to cash in on the merchandising money etc. I hope they'll consider a "reality" series since the dysfunctional family the Knicks have been and become is perfect fodder for the format. :rolleyes:

:clap: Yes! Another one of us Knck fans!
1. This forum got alot of Knick haters. 1 mistake could screw us all

Punk
07-14-2012, 11:42 AM
It's called a joke, lighten up. You knicks fans attack anyone that doesn't sing praises about your unicorn.

Lin will be a knick, and we will find out how good he is over an 82 game sample instead of 25 games.

No, they attack your stupid posts that are flat out ignorant and trollish with almost everything.