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View Full Version : Bulls & Wolves Discussing Korver-Ridnour Swap



KB-Pau-DH2012
07-12-2012, 12:43 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19570855/report-bulls-talking-korver-trade-with-timberwolves


The Chicago Tribune reports that the Bulls have opened talks with the Minnesota Timberwolves about a trade of forward Kyle Korver and his $5 million non-guaranteed contract for net season. The target of such talks is an odd return, another point guard.

Wednesday brought another day of number-crunching and phone calls, with the Bulls attempting to trade Kyle Korver before Sunday's deadline on his $5 million option arrives. League sources said the Bulls, after having conversations with the Hawks, shifted their focus to the Timberwolves.

The target was unclear. One league source said the Bulls inquired about Luke Ridnour, who would seem to duplicate Hinrich and also add another year of salary. However, Ridnour's $4.32 million salary expires in 2014 at a time when the Bulls could make major changes with Hinrich's and Luol Deng's deals ending and the amnesty provision likely being used on Carlos Boozer.

via Chicago Bulls: Chicago Bulls in free agent holding pattern - chicagotribune.com.


Wow, Wolves are getting scary good with Rubio, Love, Pekovic, Wesley Johnson, Budinger, Barrea, Batum, Korver

PacersForLife
07-12-2012, 12:45 PM
Serious question, how many point guards do the Bulls have on their roster?

KB24PG16
07-12-2012, 12:46 PM
i thought korver was already traded

TeamSeattle
07-12-2012, 12:46 PM
All Minny needs to do now is trade Wes Johnson for a solid backup big (he'll never see playing time now anyways) and they are good for the start of the season.

phlp_bj
07-12-2012, 12:49 PM
hinrich
rose
possibly ridnour
possibly beaverly
teague
possibly bring back lucas

Badluck33
07-12-2012, 12:50 PM
True pgs with Ridnour is 3. KH12 is a combo guard who will play both spots. Also, Rose isn't expected to be back til ASG. Teague isn't expected much minutes anyways. Maybe 10-15 if that??

PG LR/KH12/Teague
SG Rip/KH12

Looks to be the rotation if Bulls land LR when season starts.

RLundi
07-12-2012, 12:52 PM
Wolves are becoming my new favorite team! I hope they get the airtime they deserve on national television because I'm getting excited about this team. I feel like they can become the new OKC with all their young, emerging pieces.

I never thought Kahn would ever live down Flynn-Rubio and Darko thing but he's making up for it quite nicely...

TheGirth
07-12-2012, 01:12 PM
I would not call Ridnour a true point. Can he run the offense? Yes. Is he someone that can create plays for others (i.e. a true point guard)? No.

With the emergence of Rubio, who will hopefully be back to full health, the steady play of Barea down the stretch and the likely addition of the "Russian Rubio" Alexey Shved, Ridnour has become expendable.

Korver would likely be released to clear cap space for the Wolves.

Ridnour would be a decent addition for the Bulls. He adds a little scoring punch and is a great person in general.

LongIslandIcedZ
07-12-2012, 01:13 PM
If the Timberwolves can win the championship this year, they should definitely get a movie made about it.

So many white guys.

torocan
07-12-2012, 01:14 PM
Wolves are becoming my new favorite team! I hope they get the airtime they deserve on national television because I'm getting excited about this team. I feel like they can become the new OKC with all their young, emerging pieces.

I never thought Kahn would ever live down Flynn-Rubio and Darko thing but he's making up for it quite nicely...

They're definitely putting together a good team, but the new OKC? Let's not get TOO far ahead of ourselves...

Cfrey
07-12-2012, 01:18 PM
They're definitely putting together a good team, but the new OKC? Let's not get TOO far ahead of ourselves...

Do you remember when Kevin Love put up over 50 against OKC last year?? Hit an UNREAL three to send it in to overtime??

With Ricky Rubio, Kevin Love, and Pekovic that is a great core to start to build around. They are young and just need experience. The only thing that held this team back last year was the absolute LACK of solid players.. if the Wolves just had "solid" guys we would have been the 6th seed.. but we had some of the worst bench players in the league.. It was almost embarrassing..

If we can add Batum or Iggy and then fill the roster out like we have been doing with good players who can make a ****ing jump shot then I see no way we can't start competing in the west every year with OKC.. while everyone else is kind of on the decline.

RLundi
07-12-2012, 01:18 PM
They're definitely putting together a good team, but the new OKC? Let's not get TOO far ahead of ourselves...

Reread my post -- BECOME the new OKC. It took a few years for the Thunder to be elite. I don't think I'm getting ahead of myself in the least by saying that if the Wolves keep their core intact and the players continue progressing, they can be elite, because I absolutely believe that.

AddiX
07-12-2012, 01:23 PM
They still don't have a go to scorer, they won't break a 7th seed without one.

I'm not sure why you guys are getting so amped up about them, as of right now they have got buddinger and Brandon Roy. Nothing else is set in stone, and batum makes them better, but I don't know where all this stuff about them being elite w him comes from.

Killerjug
07-12-2012, 01:24 PM
Kevin Love is definitely a go to scorer

Cfrey
07-12-2012, 01:25 PM
They still don't have a go to scorer, they won't break a 7th seed without one.

I'm not sure why you guys are getting so amped up about them, as of right now they have got buddinger and Brandon Roy. Nothing else is set in stone, and batum makes them better, but I don't know where all this stuff about them being elite w him comes from.

Batum averaged 14 points in an offense where he stood in the corner and roamed the three point line. He was completely took out of his natural game in POR. It's really that simple. I don't know how else to put it to you. He has the potential to average 18-19 ppg in this offense and that in no doubt in my mind will help us TREMENDOUSLY.

TeamSeattle
07-12-2012, 01:27 PM
Wolves are now a playoff team and thats good enough for me. You have to start from somewhere to be great.

AddiX
07-12-2012, 01:31 PM
Batum averaged 14 points in an offense where he stood in the corner and roamed the three point line. He was completely took out of his natural game in POR. It's really that simple. I don't know how else to put it to you. He has the potential to average 18-19 ppg in this offense and that in no doubt in my mind will help us TREMENDOUSLY.

Being a true go to scorer , and averaging 18-19 pts is not the same thing at all. Beasley averaged 19 pts his first year in min, enough said.

Batum does not put them over:
SA
Den
LA
LA
OKC
Mem

So even w batum, there still a 7 seed at best IMO.

justinnum1
07-12-2012, 01:34 PM
How old is that article?

kcjhoop
Korver talks with Wolves and Blazers have died. Assume Bulls will circle back to Atlanta, which has traded player exception he'd fit into.

Cfrey
07-12-2012, 01:36 PM
Being a true go to scorer , and averaging 18-19 pts is not the same thing at all. Beasley averaged 19 pts his first year in min, enough said.

Batum does not put them over:
SA
Den
LA
LA
OKC
Mem

So even w batum, there still a 7 seed at best IMO.

There is a difference between averaging 19 points in an offense because you are the only guy who can put the ball in the bucket and between averaging 19 points during the flow of the O.. Dude you clearly didn't watch Timberwolves games last year.. they were competitive with every team they played. They beat the Spurs 3 out of 4 times I believe?? They beat the Mavs, they took the Heat right down to the wire and lost on a buzzer beater.. I mean this team is right there with the pieces that they already had had.. so what I'm saying here is that with the addition of Bud (40% 3), Roy (possibility of being his oldself), and maybe Batum or Iggy then I don't know how we can't be one of the forces in the west.. we were giving fits to teams with the worst players imaginable seeing action so I'll just wait to see what happens I guess

I Rock Shaqs
07-12-2012, 01:42 PM
Batum in Rick Adelman's system is definitely a go-to scorer.

RLundi
07-12-2012, 02:13 PM
They still don't have a go to scorer, they won't break a 7th seed without one.

I'm not sure why you guys are getting so amped up about them, as of right now they have got buddinger and Brandon Roy. Nothing else is set in stone, and batum makes them better, but I don't know where all this stuff about them being elite w him comes from.

Who said anything about being elite now? This team is on the upswing. I don't know if you're cut from the cloth of those that only think homerun moves matter, but small moves add up too. As presently constructed, Lakers, Thunder, Spurs, Grizzlies and Clippers are definitively better. But the Wolves are a playoff team that WILL get better.

And I have no idea where the assertion that Love isn't a go-to scorer is coming from.

AddiX
07-12-2012, 02:19 PM
Who said anything about being elite now? This team is on the upswing. I don't know if you're cut from the cloth of those that only think homerun moves matter, but small moves add up too. As presently constructed, Lakers, Thunder, Spurs, Grizzlies and Clippers are definitively better. But the Wolves are a playoff team that WILL get better.

And I have no idea where the assertion that Love isn't a go-to scorer is coming from.

That assertion comes from the amount of close Games you guys have lost the last two years, and the non existent double team he never receives. That doesn't mean he's a bad player one bit, but he sure as heck is not a go to scorer.

I remember when the knicks use to lose all our close games, some people thought we were a few pieces away. But we weren't, teams were toying with us until the last 5 minutes, David lee was putting up big stats, obviously not klove stats, but he got his stats in a similar fashion) But when it counted he didn't do ****, and our team always lost.

And that's you guys right now IMO. Fools gold into thinking your almost there because of this or that player, won a few games here or there, but Without real go to guys, you go no where in this league. I don't see any real go to guys on that team right now.

Hawkeye15
07-12-2012, 02:28 PM
Love isn't a go-to scorer? Addix, you missed all of last season. Ask Clipper, Thunder, or Sixers fans if he can score late. Ask Houston if he doesn't have the ability to bury you late. Shedding 25 lbs made him much more athletic, and with his outside shot, he can get by guys now and finish above the rim.

This deal is most likely off. The Wolves just signed Batum to an offer sheet, Korver was going to be used in a proposed SnT to the Blazers for Batum.

TeamSeattle
07-12-2012, 02:35 PM
@JerryZgoda
Taylor said Wolves priority if Blazers re-sign Batum, priority isn't a wing. "We need big guys," he said. Team has pursued Greg Steimsma and Jordan Hill


Seems like the Batum sweepstakes isn't going to well. That sucks.

RLundi
07-12-2012, 02:43 PM
That assertion comes from the amount of close Games you guys have lost the last two years, and the non existent double team he never receives. That doesn't mean he's a bad player one bit, but he sure as heck is not a go to scorer.

I remember when the knicks use to lose all our close games, some people thought we were a few pieces away. But we weren't, teams were toying with us until the last 5 minutes, David lee was putting up big stats, obviously not klove stats, but he got his stats in a similar fashion) But when it counted he didn't do ****, and our team always lost.

And that's you guys right now IMO. Fools gold into thinking your almost there because of this or that player, won a few games here or there, but Without real go to guys, you go no where in this league. I don't see any real go to guys on that team right now.

I'm actually not a Wolves fan at all. You might have signatures turned off like I do, but I live in Orlando and I'm a Magic fan unfortunately.

Question: since when do double-teams denote go-to scorers? Dwight Howard hasn't seen single-coverage in years but I imagine no one would label him a typical go-to scorer, though he gets a fair amount of points. In that case, Love's offensive game is much better than Dwight's, yet Love isn't a go-to scorer? When LeBron was failing in the clutch all season long two years ago, he wasn't a go-to scorer?? What constitutes a player as 'go-to' anyway? I mean is there a definitive criteria or numerical value? I'm sorry, but I see immense holes and flaws in your logic.

If you wanted to try to quantify clutchness the way some people do (and I'm on the fence about clutch statistics) Love was actually the 14th most-clutch player in the league last season, ahead of Tony Parker, Derrick Rose, Dwyane Wade, Dirk Nowitzki- the list goes on and on. Are you suggesting that being able to score in close games makes a player more 'go-to'? Because if so, then Love is more 'go-to' than 97% of the league.

Think what you like, but the Wolves were on track to make the postseason last year before Rubio went down. If the team is healthy, why shouldn't we expect continual improvement and progression? Does a young team not have that ability?

No disrespect, but your reasoning seems incredibly short-sighted and just altogether incorrect. But I'd definitely welcome you making a case on why you believe the opposite.

Chronz
07-12-2012, 04:07 PM
I think they are releasing Korver so they can make the offer they promised Batum.

Kyben36
07-12-2012, 04:17 PM
Serious question, how many point guards do the Bulls have on their roster?

Same thing I am thinking, Know rose will be out for a while, but when he comes back, either Hinrich or Ridnour would sit and play very few minutes if any.

Although my personal opinion is Ridnour will be more tradeable by the deadline than Korver would, PGs are a big need in the league today. Yes, shooters are big too, but you can get a good shooter pretty easily, not great like KOrver, but the diference between a 40% and 45% isnt really that much, 1 shot out of 20.

Hawkeye15
07-12-2012, 04:23 PM
I think they are releasing Korver so they can make the offer they promised Batum.

no, they released Darko to make it, and will also release Webster and Miller shortly. The first reported deal was 2 future 1sts, and then they give up a 2nd rounder for Korver (salary dump for Bulls), and send him to Portland to give them a short term replacement, but Portland had no interest.

Which is why making the offer, while I am fine with it, doesn't make a ton of sense. If Portland already turned down getting decent value for letting Batum go, they surely won't let him walk for nothing.

Chronz
07-12-2012, 04:29 PM
Batum in Rick Adelman's system is definitely a go-to scorer.

I always thought the point of Princeton offense is that they dont run typical go to plays. Dont buy his theory, you dont need a go to option anymore than you need an effective system. Most importantly you can win games defensively as well.

Chronz
07-12-2012, 04:30 PM
no, they released Darko to make it, and will also release Webster and Miller shortly. The first reported deal was 2 future 1sts, and then they give up a 2nd rounder for Korver (salary dump for Bulls), and send him to Portland to give them a short term replacement, but Portland had no interest.

Which is why making the offer, while I am fine with it, doesn't make a ton of sense. If Portland already turned down getting decent value for letting Batum go, they surely won't let him walk for nothing.
Pretty sure they amnestied Darko and even with all those moves they still dont have the money they have promised him. Least not if Roy and that overseas prospect get their deals first.

Hawkeye15
07-12-2012, 04:39 PM
Pretty sure they amnestied Darko and even with all those moves they still dont have the money they have promised him. Least not if Roy and that overseas prospect get their deals first.

they do, because they are putting off signing Roy and Shved until its resolved, and at that point, they will probably flip Luke or Ellington, possibly both, for nonguaranteed deals or 2nd rounders to make room.

The one thing I do have supreme confidence in Kahn is his ability to create space. The problem is he is usually making a smaller mistake doing so while trying to fix the original mistake he made haha.

Would you flip Ridnour/Ellington for 2nd rounders to clear space for Roy/Shved? I understand you may not know much about Shved, most of us don't.

Hawkeye15
07-12-2012, 04:43 PM
I always thought the point of Princeton offense is that they dont run typical go to plays. Dont buy his theory, you dont need a go to option anymore than you need an effective system. Most importantly you can win games defensively as well.

The Princeton system also needs to be adjusted with a short shot clock. Why do you think the scores of Princeton games was so low? They would simply keep moving the ball, moving the ball, cutting, spacing, FOREVER, until a high percentage shot presented itself. In the NBA, you obviously have to have someone who can be presented the ball with 5-8 seconds left on the clock who can create for himself or others.

All that being said, Batum isn't any of that haha. He is a great floor spacer who moves well without the ball and understands angles to get himself open off the ball.

Chronz
07-12-2012, 05:29 PM
The Princeton system also needs to be adjusted with a short shot clock. Why do you think the scores of Princeton games was so low? They would simply keep moving the ball, moving the ball, cutting, spacing, FOREVER, until a high percentage shot presented itself. In the NBA, you obviously have to have someone who can be presented the ball with 5-8 seconds left on the clock who can create for himself or others.

All that being said, Batum isn't any of that haha. He is a great floor spacer who moves well without the ball and understands angles to get himself open off the ball.

Yea Im not talking about College. Dont see what this has to do with my post.



they do, because they are putting off signing Roy and Shved until its resolved, and at that point, they will probably flip Luke or Ellington, possibly both, for nonguaranteed deals or 2nd rounders to make room.

The one thing I do have supreme confidence in Kahn is his ability to create space. The problem is he is usually making a smaller mistake doing so while trying to fix the original mistake he made haha.

Would you flip Ridnour/Ellington for 2nd rounders to clear space for Roy/Shved? I understand you may not know much about Shved, most of us don't.
Im surprised Roy isnt off put by not knowing if the money they offered is really there.

Hawkeye15
07-12-2012, 05:35 PM
Yea Im not talking about College. Dont see what this has to do with my post.

Because you keep referring to Adelman's offense as the Princeton offense, when in reality it's an altered version of it. The point is the same, but the differences do force you to have a shot creator.


Im surprised Roy isnt off put by not knowing if the money they offered is really there.

Kahn and Taylor were apparently very up front about it, and convinced Roy they will have no problem clearing the money.

AddiX
07-12-2012, 05:44 PM
I'm actually not a Wolves fan at all. You might have signatures turned off like I do, but I live in Orlando and I'm a Magic fan unfortunately.

Question: since when do double-teams denote go-to scorers? Dwight Howard hasn't seen single-coverage in years but I imagine no one would label him a typical go-to scorer, though he gets a fair amount of points. In that case, Love's offensive game is much better than Dwight's, yet Love isn't a go-to scorer? When LeBron was failing in the clutch all season long two years ago, he wasn't a go-to scorer?? What constitutes a player as 'go-to' anyway? I mean is there a definitive criteria or numerical value? I'm sorry, but I see immense holes and flaws in your logic.

If you wanted to try to quantify clutchness the way some people do (and I'm on the fence about clutch statistics) Love was actually the 14th most-clutch player in the league last season, ahead of Tony Parker, Derrick Rose, Dwyane Wade, Dirk Nowitzki- the list goes on and on. Are you suggesting that being able to score in close games makes a player more 'go-to'? Because if so, then Love is more 'go-to' than 97% of the league.

Think what you like, but the Wolves were on track to make the postseason last year before Rubio went down. If the team is healthy, why shouldn't we expect continual improvement and progression? Does a young team not have that ability?

No disrespect, but your reasoning seems incredibly short-sighted and just altogether incorrect. But I'd definitely welcome you making a case on why you believe the opposite.

It's not about stats, it's about moves, being having a good clutch shooting % is great, but not when you only take then open shots. What moves does love really have?

Again, I've watched Minnesota lose kore close games in thenlast 2 years than any team in the NBA. Love is not the player u can hand the ball to anywhere on the court, with the entire defense watching him, and he will get a bucket, he doesnt posses thst skill set.

And again, double teams mean a lot. I've rarely if ever seen teams focusing on love. Love is the perfect second option, but as a number 1 I just don't see it.

Hawkeye15
07-12-2012, 05:45 PM
It's not about stats, it's about moves, being having a good clutch shooting % is great, but not when you only take then open shots. What moves does love really have?

Again, I've watched Minnesota lose kore close games in thenlast 2 years than any team in the NBA. Love is not the player u can hand the ball to anywhere on the court, with the entire defense watching him, and he will get a bucket, he doesnt posses thst skill set.

And again, double teams mean a lot. I've rarely if ever seen teams focusing on love. Love is the perfect second option, but as a number 1 I just don't see it.

well, you will be the last one on the train dude.

Sota4Ever
07-12-2012, 05:56 PM
The train already left.

AddiX
07-12-2012, 06:01 PM
well, you will be the last one on the train dude.

You already know this. :D

But hey, he proves me wrong I'll be the first to admit it.

But There was a reason no matter how much minny fans hated Beasley, that the end of games, he constantly was on the floor and had the green light to take the shot, its because with a man glued to love, he can't do much.

And that's the difference between a # 1 and a # 2 IMO.

Sota4Ever
07-12-2012, 06:02 PM
hahaha maybe at the beginning of the year when Adelman didn't know what he had. Beasley barely played after the first month.

Chronz
07-13-2012, 12:05 PM
Because you keep referring to Adelman's offense as the Princeton offense, when in reality it's an altered version of it. The point is the same, but the differences do force you to have a shot creator.
Why wouldnt I keep referring to it by its name? In reality its still the Princeton offense, just like a UCLA cut is still the UCLA cut.

And I dont buy your opinion, the Rockets didnt have a shot creator when they were running it.

Hawkeye15
07-13-2012, 12:09 PM
Why wouldnt I keep referring to it by its name? In reality its still the Princeton offense, just like a UCLA cut is still the UCLA cut.

And I dont buy your opinion, the Rockets didnt have a shot creator when they were running it.

Which is why I feel the offense was limited to some degree. Any offense will be limited when there is a short time limit to get a high percentage shot if it doesn't have a shot creator. At least that is how I feel.

I would also include a playmaker as a shot creator, ie, Rubio, especially if he can ever learn how to score....

god Rubio sucks at that so far though.

Hawkeye15
07-13-2012, 12:11 PM
You already know this. :D

But hey, he proves me wrong I'll be the first to admit it.

But There was a reason no matter how much minny fans hated Beasley, that the end of games, he constantly was on the floor and had the green light to take the shot, its because with a man glued to love, he can't do much.

And that's the difference between a # 1 and a # 2 IMO.

again, you obviously did not watch the Wolves, despite your claims that you did. Beasley was rarely used unless on fire by Adelman, he couldn't stand Beasley.

The thing is, he has already proven you wrong, and you aren't admitting it. Just because a guy commands double teams, or can create space and get any shot off doesn't make him a go to scorer. You actually have to score to be a go to scorer.

Chronz
07-13-2012, 12:12 PM
Which is why I feel the offense was limited to some degree. Any offense will be limited when there is a short time limit to get a high percentage shot if it doesn't have a shot creator. At least that is how I feel.

The 4th best offense in the league was limited?

Hawkeye15
07-13-2012, 12:14 PM
The 4th best offense in the league was limited?

any offense will be better, no matter where they rate, if they have an option late in the shot clock to present easier opportunities. That is all I mean.

Chronz
07-13-2012, 12:34 PM
any offense will be better, no matter where they rate, if they have an option late in the shot clock to present easier opportunities. That is all I mean.
So basically your saying an offense can get better if they have someone who can make shots. LOL BRILLIANT.

Has nothing to do with my post.