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View Full Version : [VIDEO] - Sick Footage of Jerry West



C-Style
07-10-2012, 02:25 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5Yle0SjlHY&feature=youtu.be


:worthy::worthy::worthy:

Player Profile:
*6-3 listed shooting guard (Though West claims he actually stood "just over 6-4")
*6-9 wingspan
*11' 4" Max Reach (16" above the rim, only 1" shy of Dwayne Wade)
*180-185lbs

C-Style
07-10-2012, 02:26 AM
Hope he gets more appreciation here than the actual Laker forum

Glen20
07-10-2012, 02:30 AM
the defense looks terrible in that video
also, his handles aren't very impressive
but yeah, hes an all time great no doubt
he's got a killer pullup also

TeamSeattle
07-10-2012, 02:33 AM
The fundamentals are incredible in this film. His court awareness was off the charts. Good stuff.

Chronz
07-10-2012, 02:58 AM
The fundamentals are incredible in this film. His court awareness was off the charts. Good stuff.

Except for the whole left hand thing, I agree

JordansBulls
07-10-2012, 08:37 AM
Except for the whole left hand thing, I agree

:confused:

Mr.B
07-10-2012, 08:39 AM
The Nets should trade for him

Heatcheck
07-10-2012, 10:04 AM
the defense looks terrible in that video
also, his handles aren't very impressive
but yeah, hes an all time great no doubt
he's got a killer pullup also

to be fair, he was actually dribbling the ball, i didnt see him palm it at any point, or carry it, or have his hand on the side of the ball like they do nowadays. im curious to see how players nowadays would fare if refs made that call nowadays, they wouldnt be able to do half of that amazing **** they do.

Heatcheck
07-10-2012, 10:04 AM
oh yeah, and his balance is ****ing incredible.

3's set u free
07-10-2012, 10:05 AM
Terrible highlights. No left hand, can't jump, no defense. Jerry West was a great player but he looks horrible in these highlights.

Glen20
07-10-2012, 10:06 AM
to be fair, he was actually dribbling the ball, i didnt see him palm it at any point, or carry it, or have his hand on the side of the ball like they do nowadays. im curious to see how players nowadays would fare if refs made that call nowadays, they wouldnt be able to do half of that amazing **** they do.

yeah good point
didn't pick that up

Dade County
07-10-2012, 10:39 AM
Terrible highlights. No left hand, can't jump, no defense. Jerry West was a great player but he looks horrible in these highlights.

Yeah, I didn't see him use his left hand to finish once, and 90% of the times he went right, and in one of the highlights a black player was not let him go right and he hand to turn his back and then quickly through the ball near the rim and one of his teammates grabbed the ball out of the air and finished.

But he was really dribbling with out palming, I would love for the refs to call that every single time, and moving screens :nod:

farispkka
07-10-2012, 10:51 AM
http://www.vvio.info/jpg1The fundamentals are incredible in this film. His court awareness was off the charts. Good stuff.

His court awareness was off the charts.

RaiderLakersA's
07-10-2012, 10:55 AM
He's The Logo for a reason.

bucketss
07-10-2012, 11:19 AM
he only dribbles with one hand

KB-Pau-DH2012
07-10-2012, 11:20 AM
he only dribbles with one hand

Yet he still dominated.

bucketss
07-10-2012, 11:23 AM
Yet he still dominated.

would he have dominated in todays game? or even be an average player?

TeamSeattle
07-10-2012, 11:29 AM
Except for the whole left hand thing, I agree

Complaining about him not having a left again here we go? Do people not even realize players didn't have to jump out the of gym, could play slower, and probe the defense more. We can't compare 60's/70's nba to today where its all athleticism and carries. Anybody who is an all-star can go left with ease don't kid yourself guys be smarter than that.

michael811
07-10-2012, 11:35 AM
would he have dominated in todays game? or even be an average player?

with a three point and being able to palm and travel and carry like todays players of course Jerry West would

BHF
07-10-2012, 11:51 AM
wtf this forum is full of 12 year old kids lol west was a beast in his days

StarvingKnick22
07-10-2012, 11:54 AM
lol anybody else see the top comment! who is Cookiewalka?

adidas2307
07-10-2012, 11:55 AM
he only dribbles with one hand

In the first three seconds of the video you can clearly see West dribbling with his left hand! ;)

NY007
07-10-2012, 11:58 AM
Yeah, I didn't see him use his left hand to finish once, and 90% of the times he went right, and in one of the highlights a black player was not let him go right and he hand to turn his back and then quickly through the ball near the rim and one of his teammates grabbed the ball out of the air and finished.

But he was really dribbling with out palming, I would love for the refs to call that every single time, and moving screens :nod:

If refs called the game the right way your Heat would be ****ed, Wade and Lebron are always carrying and Lebron always moves his pivot foot.

NY007
07-10-2012, 12:01 PM
Thank you for the vid it's amazing how much little respect West gets

KingPosey
07-10-2012, 12:04 PM
There is nothing in that video that leads me to believe he can play that far above the rim. He was sick though.

AYozzy
07-10-2012, 12:04 PM
Go Mountaineers!!!!

MonroeFAN
07-10-2012, 12:09 PM
Basketball before 1980 = complete and total joke.

It looks like he's playing against the JCC team. He's probably as good as Jason Terry is in todays game.

WVNowitzki
07-10-2012, 12:14 PM
Dub V reppin

bucketss
07-10-2012, 12:19 PM
with a three point and being able to palm and travel and carry like todays players of course Jerry West would

he looks unathletic, if jr.smith played in that era he would be the goat

bucketss
07-10-2012, 12:20 PM
If refs called the game the right way your Heat would be ****ed, Wade and Lebron are always carrying and Lebron always moves his pivot foot.

if they called it the right way, lebron would average 30 free throws a game so would dwight.

C-Style
07-10-2012, 12:25 PM
would he have dominated in todays game? or even be an average player?

great players like Steve Nash, Gino and even Bird were able too, If he grew up in this era knowing all the things todays players know, he would be just as great. He would even be better.

C-Style
07-10-2012, 12:33 PM
Basketball before 1980 = complete and total joke.

It looks like he's playing against the JCC team. He's probably as good as Jason Terry is in todays game.


I think ur the Joke, if u think players like Kareem, Wilt, West, Baylor, DR J, Big O would not be just as great today, I would argue that these players skills would be better in today age and even call these guys ***** with all that flopping and whistle blowing.

U Cant teach what West had, tenacity, drive, brains, work ethic, heart. He would be great in any era.

Chronz
07-10-2012, 01:42 PM
:confused:

Its a slight

Chronz
07-10-2012, 01:44 PM
Complaining about him not having a left again here we go? Do people not even realize players didn't have to jump out the of gym, could play slower, and probe the defense more. We can't compare 60's/70's nba to today where its all athleticism and carries. Anybody who is an all-star can go left with ease don't kid yourself guys be smarter than that.
I cant tell if your siding with my comment or against it.

b@llhog24
07-10-2012, 01:49 PM
would he have dominated in todays game? or even be an average player?

He would be a top 5 player.


lol anybody else see the top comment! who is Cookiewalka?

A guy who trolls youtube videos bashing PSD.

WSU Tony
07-10-2012, 03:55 PM
HAHAH he's watching the ball as he dribbles. That's really funny to watch. I guess I have never realized how natural the NBA players of today are with the ball. Well, most of them. :)

BklynKnicks3
07-10-2012, 04:08 PM
if he played today he woudnt avg 10

Bruno
07-10-2012, 04:17 PM
wtf this forum is full of 12 year old kids lol west was a beast in his days

yeah.

west has one of the most nasty pull-up jumpers of all time.

NY007
07-10-2012, 04:24 PM
if they called it the right way, lebron would average 30 free throws a game so would dwight.

Lololol that's the funniest **** I ever heard, please ***** Lebron gets every little call and he's huge flopper. You can't even breath on Lebron without getting a foul yet he gets away with fouls all the time. Dwight I will give you doesn't get ****.

KaganRS
07-10-2012, 04:26 PM
would he have dominated in todays game? or even be an average player?

that's a good question , average.

TeamSeattle
07-10-2012, 04:28 PM
that's a good question , average.

Jerry West would be average lol. You gotta love PSD man

Chronz
07-10-2012, 04:30 PM
yeah.

west has one of the most nasty pull-up jumpers of all time.

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?p=22840040#post22840040

Construct your own dream team. I picked West

C-Style
07-10-2012, 04:47 PM
that's a good question , average.

Rolol

MrfadeawayJB
07-10-2012, 06:11 PM
I agree with the whole left hand thing. The highlights were ok, but did anyone else see that hate for Chronz in the replies??? lol

JasonJohnHorn
07-10-2012, 08:23 PM
I'm as impressed with his defence as I am with his shooting.

KnicksR4Real
07-10-2012, 08:49 PM
Believe it or not, the players from nowadays would kick his ***. He would be terrible in today's game.

Chronz
07-10-2012, 09:15 PM
Believe it or not, the players from nowadays would kick his ***. He would be terrible in today's game.

I think Ill go with the not option

Jint.
07-10-2012, 09:24 PM
stop n pop

KaganRS
07-11-2012, 03:14 AM
Jerry West would be average lol. You gotta love PSD man

Hi , first off-I'm not a kid. Second , you're a fan of Carmelo Anthony so that speaks volumes about what you value in a basketball player.

I just don't believe his game would translate to the modern style - do you have a problem with that ?

I don't like what you implied about me by your sarcasm.

CavaliersFTW
11-05-2012, 01:42 PM
he only dribbles with one hand

http://www.wikistupidia.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/west.gif

which hand is that?

CavaliersFTW
11-05-2012, 01:46 PM
The vid redirects to a newer version with a lot more footage now - he dribbles with his left hand in it a lot more

THE GIPPER
11-05-2012, 01:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5Yle0SjlHY&feature=youtu.be


:worthy::worthy::worthy:

Player Profile:
*6-3 listed shooting guard (Though West claims he actually stood "just over 6-4")
*6-9 wingspan
*11' 4" Max Reach (16" above the rim, only 1" shy of Dwayne Wade)
*180-185lbs

Is that standing reach or with a running start?

CavaliersFTW
11-05-2012, 02:00 PM
Is that standing reach or with a running start?

"max" usually specifies maximum possible (not standing otherwise it would be called standing reach - and would be closer to 8 feet) - so whatever start is required for him to get his hightest it can vary from player to player... some take 2 or 3 steps and jump off two legs like Dwight Howard, some need a running jump off one leg like a Julius Erving or MJ, etc

THE GIPPER
11-05-2012, 02:06 PM
"max" usually specifies maximum possible (not standing otherwise it would be called standing reach - and would be closer to 8 feet) - so whatever start is required for him to get his hightest it can vary from player to player... some take 2 or 3 steps and jump off two legs like Dwight Howard, some need a running jump off one leg like a Julius Erving or MJ, etc

Okay I was just curious because 11'5'' seems low for D-Wade.

Chronz
11-05-2012, 02:07 PM
Those were 15 minutes of pure sex

CavaliersFTW
11-05-2012, 04:35 PM
Those were 15 minutes of pure sex

That jumper looks so automatic it's ridiculous - perfect form every time

JasonJohnHorn
11-05-2012, 05:42 PM
West was one of the greatest at his position ever. That said, I always find highlight films missleading because they only show you the shots the guy hit. I mean, yeah, he was a great shooter (better FG% than Kobe, that's fir sure), but, this reel makes him look like Stockton from the field! lol

West is awesome. But I wonder if Lakers fans appreciate him as much as they think. I bet most Lakers fans would rank Kobe ahead of West.

asandhu23
11-05-2012, 05:48 PM
The players in those days were very fundamentally sound. You see a lack of fundamental knowledge today among players who got away with it because of athleticism.

CavaliersFTW
11-05-2012, 05:57 PM
West was one of the greatest at his position ever. That said, I always find highlight films missleading because they only show you the shots the guy hit. I mean, yeah, he was a great shooter (better FG% than Kobe, that's fir sure), but, this reel makes him look like Stockton from the field! lol

West is awesome. But I wonder if Lakers fans appreciate him as much as they think. I bet most Lakers fans would rank Kobe ahead of West.

If a person has never seen a player play and they are part of the younger generation of NBA fans:

*Stats can be misleading
*Accolades and testimony can be misleading
*Highlights can be misleading

*But it all becomes very informative when combined.

Prior to a few years ago Wests "greatness" existed on basketball reference, Wikipedia, the occasional interview of an NBA legend on youtube, and that's about it. Highlight packages of a guy like West didn't exist and most young gen fans (the "youtube or it didn't happen" generation) would just as soon write West off as a scrub regardless of his stats due to preconcieved notions about "weak era's" (Which basically means any era where footage doesn't exist to prove it was any good). For a long time there was just limited footage of him making a slow-motion layup or something weak looking. Highlight footage like this in tandem with what is already known is very revealing about what a complete player he was - and I feel is extremely important when it comes to teaching young fans about NBA history and how far back it was being played at an elite level. So, obviously a highlight video on it's own doesn't mean much, but highlights + learning about West? That's very telling about how good he was.

LAKERMANIA
11-05-2012, 06:05 PM
West was one of the greatest at his position ever. That said, I always find highlight films missleading because they only show you the shots the guy hit. I mean, yeah, he was a great shooter (better FG% than Kobe, that's fir sure), but, this reel makes him look like Stockton from the field! lol

West is awesome. But I wonder if Lakers fans appreciate him as much as they think. I bet most Lakers fans would rank Kobe ahead of West.

And what exactly is wrong with ranking Kobe ahead of West?

MackShock
11-05-2012, 06:14 PM
epic music. epic player.

Chronz
11-05-2012, 06:37 PM
West was one of the greatest at his position ever. That said, I always find highlight films missleading because they only show you the shots the guy hit. I mean, yeah, he was a great shooter (better FG% than Kobe, that's fir sure), but, this reel makes him look like Stockton from the field! lol

West is awesome. But I wonder if Lakers fans appreciate him as much as they think. I bet most Lakers fans would rank Kobe ahead of West.

Misleading isnt the word your looking for, all-encompassing perhaps?


West was a better shooter than Stockton anyways.

Hangtime
11-05-2012, 06:52 PM
Basketball before 1980 = complete and total joke.

It looks like he's playing against the JCC team. He's probably as good as Jason Terry is in todays game.

The game had to evolve from what came before it. Those guys that played in the early days were pioneers of the sport. They paved the way for each younger player that came immediately after them and continued to add something unique.

Many players like Kobe wee inspired by Jordan just as Jordan was inspired by those that came before him. And so on and so on.

Green_Monster
11-05-2012, 06:59 PM
Look at the 1st comment in the Youtube video. :laugh2:

CavaliersFTW
11-05-2012, 07:07 PM
Basketball before the 1980's was already advanced and being played at an elite level, far more than fans who didn't watch it seem to believe. There just isn't a whole lot of footage available today at everyones fingertips to see it. The NBA became a better marketing machine in the 1980's (and started preserving more games on film for us to watch today), not necessarily a better basketball talent machine. From what I can see the league talent didn't suddenly increase at the dawn of the 80's, it only became better documented and marketed to fans. I have a lot of footage from before the 1980's and every skillset and move displayed in the NBA today was being done before the 80's be it from playgrounds to the NBA, there is nothing really new or revolutionary in the game today that didn't already exist back then, only the style, rules, exposure, and players have changed over time.

Knowledge
11-05-2012, 07:30 PM
Lol comments are now disabled. PSD > SOPA.

CavaliersFTW
11-05-2012, 07:44 PM
Just a quick question since I'm new to PSD, is it against the forum rules to post any links to my own Youtube channel even if they are pertinent to a discussion? I have Jerry West footage that I could post here

KnicksPain
11-06-2012, 12:45 AM
He was really ahead of his time just in how he moved on the court and the control he had of the ball. For the argument of his game translating to nowadays I think Steve Nash, Billups, Steph Curry, Andre Miller, and a little older but Mark Jackson, Mark Price and Stockton are all solid examples of similar athletes in respects to West who are at least very solid pgs.

That pull up J is nasty.

Chronz
11-06-2012, 12:53 AM
He was really ahead of his time just in how he moved on the court and the control he had of the ball. For the argument of his game translating to nowadays I think Steve Nash, Billups, Steph Curry, Andre Miller, and a little older but Mark Jackson, Mark Price and Stockton are all solid examples of similar athletes in respects to West who are at least very solid pgs.

That pull up J is nasty.

I think hes easily superior athletically. Your talking about a guy who rebounded better than his height, had crazy length for a guy his size with wiry strength. Visually Ive never seen any of the players you mention get a weakside block with the kind of reach West displays in this footage, **** most of the guys you mentioned have a very floor based game, that wasn't West at all.
He was averaging 2.6 steals and .7 blocks as a 35 year old, these are primarily athletic based traits/stats, keep in mind he did this on old school style courts (not as springy) and probably while wearing lame shoes (less jumpy).

Diabolical
11-06-2012, 12:57 AM
This is a horrible video. West is one of the greatest guards to play the game... but this video doesn't show that.

I think I've seen a more exciting Erick Dampier highlight video than this one.

gwrighter
11-06-2012, 01:03 AM
he only dribbles with one hand

lol this.

Right hand specialist.

CavaliersFTW
11-06-2012, 01:33 AM
This is a horrible video. West is one of the greatest guards to play the game... but this video doesn't show that.

I think I've seen a more exciting Erick Dampier highlight video than this one.

Try this one - I'm not sure if any of you have been following the redirect link, but much more footage of West is in this newer version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGlryGCKtTo&feature=g-upl

Sssmush
11-06-2012, 01:39 AM
he looks like that guy at 24 Fitness who got hot at the pickup game and made four baskets in a row, including a scoop shot right around Tony, the guy who works at Hot Dog Hut, who is a really awesome defender by the way

Sssmush
11-06-2012, 01:41 AM
The game had to evolve from what came before it. Those guys that played in the early days were pioneers of the sport. They paved the way for each younger player that came immediately after them and continued to add something unique.

Many players like Kobe wee inspired by Jordan just as Jordan was inspired by those that came before him. And so on and so on.

uh, yeah, in today's game, I'd say that West would be like a slower, weaker and slightly smaller version of JJ Reddick

LoL at whoever said West's max reach was 11" above the rim. He looks like he's 5'7" and can't jump out there. And he runs around in a crouch when he dribbles, looking down at the ball half the time.

are you guys trolling me or something? is this some kind of joke?

CavaliersFTW
11-06-2012, 02:01 AM
uh, yeah, in today's game, I'd say that West would be like a slower, weaker and slightly smaller version of JJ Reddick

LoL at whoever said West's max reach was 11" above the rim. He looks like he's 5'7" and can't jump out there. And he runs around in a crouch when he dribbles, looking down at the ball half the time.

are you guys trolling me or something? is this some kind of joke?

Looks can be very deceiving, and he also has a 6-9 wingspan. West is a full-size shooting guard, his basketball-reference 6-2 list info is wrong he claims in interviews and books that he's actually about 6-4.5
http://cbsla.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/96400401.jpg

BKLYNpigeon
11-06-2012, 02:31 AM
"Sick Video?"

I was sick after 2 minutes of watching it, looked pretty damn basic to me..

look at pistol pete if you want to blow your mind.

CavaliersFTW
11-06-2012, 02:54 AM
"Sick Video?"

I was sick after 2 minutes of watching it, looked pretty damn basic to me..

look at pistol pete if you want to blow your mind.

West plays actual dominant fundamental basketball kinda like a backcourt version of Tim Duncan - Pistol plays flashy basketball. I guess it just depends on what you want to see, I love seeing Wests skill set you don't see many backcourt players with that kind of precise fundamental game in the league today - and in clutch and defensive plays he looks like hes playing with incredible intensity

Chronz
11-06-2012, 04:46 AM
uh, yeah, in today's game, I'd say that West would be like a slower, weaker and slightly smaller version of JJ Reddick

LoL at whoever said West's max reach was 11" above the rim. He looks like he's 5'7" and can't jump out there. And he runs around in a crouch when he dribbles, looking down at the ball half the time.

are you guys trolling me or something? is this some kind of joke?
If your going to laugh can you at least fill me in on whats so funny. You said he "looks" 5"7 but hes actually Wade's height at the least in reality so whats so funny?

Sssmush
11-06-2012, 07:06 AM
Looks can be very deceiving, and he also has a 6-9 wingspan. West is a full-size shooting guard, his basketball-reference 6-2 list info is wrong he claims in interviews and books that he's actually about 6-4.5
http://cbsla.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/96400401.jpg

Ummm, seriously?

You think he looks big out there? I mean, yeah, maybe he has a 7'9" wingspan. Or why not maybe an 8'9" wingspan.

Yeah he was clearly out there dominating like Wade and Dr J or Shaq, or Jordan even, skying over the backboards and throwing down monster dunks, pulling down rebounds in traffic like Barkley.

like, seriously?

Sssmush
11-06-2012, 07:17 AM
yeah, uh... all that video makes me think is that the game has changed an incredible amount since then.

how does grabbing a rebound into your chest without jumping, or dribbling around one handed in a circle, and then making a jump shot from 12 feet over a 6'6" non-jumping power forward count as a highlight reel moment?

I cannot imagine that guy being able to guard anybody in the current NBA, nor can I imagine him trying to operate in a narrow window like Kobe does, getting defended and doubled 23+ feet from the basket but still being able to create shots and score effectively.

I mean, I don't know, maybe MAYBE if he was a rookie this year, he might be able to develop into a Steve Blake type of player; or who knows, with new training methods and techniques, maybe he would blossom and be like a Deron Williams or something, it's hard to say.

But yeah, how are those videos awesome? that like ruined my image of the logo, man. Now I'm wondering if he could even make a single jumpshot in the modern NBA

tmacsc2
11-06-2012, 08:13 AM
Are you one of those people who literally takes a person from that past and puts him directly into the present without giving him any of the technology and training techniques of now days. Thats just ignorant man.

You also have to factor in his ability would be a lot further because for some reason the game has changed greatly with how fast and high people can jump and run.

Dont just take him directly from the past and put him in the present give him all of the things that these pros have as well.

He reminds me of T-mac watching that video obviously a slowed down and not as aggressive but shot selection and how he is smart when he drives to the basket.

JayW_1023
11-06-2012, 08:31 AM
He would be dominant in todays game. No hand checking, and three pointers. He would murder.

Chronz
11-06-2012, 11:24 AM
yeah, uh... all that video makes me think is that the game has changed an incredible amount since then.

how does grabbing a rebound into your chest without jumping, or dribbling around one handed in a circle, and then making a jump shot from 12 feet over a 6'6" non-jumping power forward count as a highlight reel moment?

I cannot imagine that guy being able to guard anybody in the current NBA, nor can I imagine him trying to operate in a narrow window like Kobe does, getting defended and doubled 23+ feet from the basket but still being able to create shots and score effectively.

I mean, I don't know, maybe MAYBE if he was a rookie this year, he might be able to develop into a Steve Blake type of player; or who knows, with new training methods and techniques, maybe he would blossom and be like a Deron Williams or something, it's hard to say.

But yeah, how are those videos awesome? that like ruined my image of the logo, man. Now I'm wondering if he could even make a single jumpshot in the modern NBA

Like I said in the post you cowardly avoided, nobody cares about what you THINK, when you say he looks 5"8 and slow when the reality was that he was at least Wade's height with incredible length and the fastest pull-up J in the history of the game.

Its obvious your trying very hard to diminish his legacy and the NBA's history, I mean really a single jumpshot in the NBA? Dear god when are people going to learn that being blatantly ignorant and exaggerating minor points doesn't help their argument.

Chronz
11-06-2012, 11:30 AM
He would be dominant in todays game. No hand checking, and three pointers. He would murder.
Not having to play 4 games in 5 nights on the regular with poor travel, poor shoes, poorer courts, and proper medical treatment (you know as opposed to having to take numerous injections just to get out on the court), the less physical nature of the game and a lighter load with regards to minutes would have been just as helpful.

CavaliersFTW
11-06-2012, 04:14 PM
Are you one of those people who literally takes a person from that past and puts him directly into the present without giving him any of the technology and training techniques of now days. Thats just ignorant man.

You also have to factor in his ability would be a lot further because for some reason the game has changed greatly with how fast and high people can jump and run.

Dont just take him directly from the past and put him in the present give him all of the things that these pros have as well.

He reminds me of T-mac watching that video obviously a slowed down and not as aggressive but shot selection and how he is smart when he drives to the basket.

Jerry West doesn't even need that crutch to translate his game to the modern era there's no apologies needed for his highlights. The guy your trying to make a point against is just trolling (or, is possibly just an imbecile). West as seen in those highlights would flat out be a top tier player in the league today Chuck Taylors and all.

The reason I say that is because; Who's random highlights are going to look more impressive to a young fan Blake Griffin or Tim Duncan?... Now who's hands-down the superior player in every way that matters? Any freak athlete is gonna "look" superior in highlights to people who don't actually understand basketball. Watching Blake make an amazing poster dunk or Dwyane Wade flip up a crazy circus shot is really watching a highlight of an incredibly poor shot selection. The best way to win the game (whether your athletic or not) is actually played by the philosophy of "keep it simple stupid" ala a Tim Duncan or Jerry West. They are proof that you don't need style points to be insanely dominant at basketball. West orchestrates an offense and anchors the backcourt defense with consistently correct positioning and quick instinctive decisions that turn out to be the correct ones far more often than not.

Give him modern training and technology his game probably isn't going to look much different (if at all) - he's probably just going to avoid injury better and put on a little more upper body strength in the off seasons. He played below the rim by choice, the guy could dunk he just shot layups most of the time instead because 2 points is 2 points. His fundamentals can't be executed any better they are actually what stands out the most that contrasts his game to typical young shooting guards in the league right now. I watch games and see shooting guards today jacking up some awful plays like 40 foot cross-court lobs, blocking shots into the stands instead of keeping the ball in play, or dribbling too much ignoring teammates and forcing a turnover because they are having a tough time breaking the stigma that "my handles = domination" instead of using actual teamwork. Jerry West doesn't risk those kind of highlight-potential mistakes.

Remember, the guy who is saying Jerry West looks "bad" thinks he "couldn't even get a shot off" in todays league with that GOAT caliber jumper :facepalm: - meanwhile Steve Nash who can't jump over a loaf of bread, is much smaller than West, lacks any of Wests defensive presence or gifted wingspan - won 2 MVPs, 6-7 (check draft express, he's not 6-10) Kevin Love when he was fat outrebounded Dwight Howard, and Andrew Bogut when he was fat lead the league in blocked shots, I mean seriously the guy is just trolling or clueless about basketball lol

Sssmush
11-06-2012, 10:35 PM
Like I said in the post you cowardly avoided, nobody cares about what you THINK, when you say he looks 5"8 and slow when the reality was that he was at least Wade's height with incredible length and the fastest pull-up J in the history of the game.

Its obvious your trying very hard to diminish his legacy and the NBA's history, I mean really a single jumpshot in the NBA? Dear god when are people going to learn that being blatantly ignorant and exaggerating minor points doesn't help their argument.

OMG, see, this is why I think you guys are joking or trolling me or something. You keep comparing him to WADE, insisting that he is somehow comparable to Wade.

Jeeez, ok, so on paper he is the same height as Wade. After that, the comparison STOPS. Maybe if you were comparing him to Brent Barry or JJ Reddick or something, maybe we could talk. But Wade? That just seems like you are intentionally trying to yank my chain. I think part of the problem is that West dribbles around in a low crouch, often looking down at the ball, and that makes him look smaller than he really is. I see him in comparison to the basket, and his head looks like it is five feet below the rim when he's dribbling around. And I know that most of those forwards and centers are like 6'7"

A better comparison for Wade would be somebody like Dr J or Michael Jordan.

Look, here is your video. There is one dunk on it. It is at 1:00 on the video timeline:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5Yle0SjlHY&feature=youtu.be


What a gloooooorious awesome dunk. Wow, I saw that, and I thought "Wade." What else could anybody possibly think?

Also check out 0:56 on the timeline, for a sweet head/pump fake followed by an awesome bank set shot from 12 feet. That is one of my favorite moves at the park!! I am like famous for that move. And Jerry West, the logo, does it like no other.

I mean, I am talking "swooooosh" all the way!! woo hoo. Wow, Jerry West would be unstoppable in today's NBA, he'd be just like Wade, you're absolutely right.

Sssmush
11-06-2012, 10:59 PM
Jerry West doesn't even need that crutch to translate his game to the modern era there's no apologies needed for his highlights. The guy your trying to make a point against is just trolling (or, is possibly just an imbecile). West as seen in those highlights would flat out be a top tier player in the league today Chuck Taylors and all.

The reason I say that is because; Who's random highlights are going to look more impressive to a young fan Blake Griffin or Tim Duncan?... Now who's hands-down the superior player in every way that matters? Any freak athlete is gonna "look" superior in highlights to people who don't actually understand basketball. Watching Blake make an amazing poster dunk or Dwyane Wade flip up a crazy circus shot is really watching a highlight of an incredibly poor shot selection. The best way to win the game (whether your athletic or not) is actually played by the philosophy of "keep it simple stupid" ala a Tim Duncan or Jerry West. They are proof that you don't need style points to be insanely dominant at basketball. West orchestrates an offense and anchors the backcourt defense with consistently correct positioning and quick instinctive decisions that turn out to be the correct ones far more often than not.

Give him modern training and technology his game probably isn't going to look much different (if at all) - he's probably just going to avoid injury better and put on a little more upper body strength in the off seasons. He played below the rim by choice, the guy could dunk he just shot layups most of the time instead because 2 points is 2 points. His fundamentals can't be executed any better they are actually what stands out the most that contrasts his game to typical young shooting guards in the league right now. I watch games and see shooting guards today jacking up some awful plays like 40 foot cross-court lobs, blocking shots into the stands instead of keeping the ball in play, or dribbling too much ignoring teammates and forcing a turnover because they are having a tough time breaking the stigma that "my handles = domination" instead of using actual teamwork. Jerry West doesn't risk those kind of highlight-potential mistakes.

Remember, the guy who is saying Jerry West looks "bad" thinks he "couldn't even get a shot off" in todays league with that GOAT caliber jumper :facepalm: - meanwhile Steve Nash who can't jump over a loaf of bread, is much smaller than West, lacks any of Wests defensive presence or gifted wingspan - won 2 MVPs, 6-7 (check draft express, he's not 6-10) Kevin Love when he was fat outrebounded Dwight Howard, and Andrew Bogut when he was fat lead the league in blocked shots, I mean seriously the guy is just trolling or clueless about basketball lol

Yeah, I could be wrong, but to my eyes it seems ridiculous to compare Jerry West to a guy like Steve Nash, much less to a Kevin Love, who is an absolute athletic beast.

Like one thing I notice watching that video, is that West looks like he's always running around; West catches the ball in the backcourt and he's hustling, running this way, running that way.

You would never see Nash moving like that, unless a play falls apart and he's being swarmed by defenders. Otherwise, he's calm and cool and let's the game come to him. Nash has a full handle on the entire court, and it's like he's moving chess pieces around.

West looks like he's frantically dribbling in and out of trouble, landing on his butt half the time, and chucking up fall aways with a hand in his face.

Sorry, that's what I see.

Lakerhead4ever
11-06-2012, 11:34 PM
There is nothing that sticks out to me other than his fundamentals.

Skill wise, Im not impressed. At all.

CavaliersFTW
11-07-2012, 12:11 AM
Yeah, I could be wrong, but to my eyes it seems ridiculous to compare Jerry West to a guy like Steve Nash, much less to a Kevin Love, who is an absolute athletic beast.

Like one thing I notice watching that video, is that West looks like he's always running around; West catches the ball in the backcourt and he's hustling, running this way, running that way.

You would never see Nash moving like that, unless a play falls apart and he's being swarmed by defenders. Otherwise, he's calm and cool and let's the game come to him. Nash has a full handle on the entire court, and it's like he's moving chess pieces around.

West looks like he's frantically dribbling in and out of trouble, landing on his butt half the time, and chucking up fall aways with a hand in his face.

Sorry, that's what I see.

To address this and the other response you just made, I don't think people are comparing West's and Wade's style or athleticism - they are comparing his potential impact and collective abilities that add up to him being at the very least a competent and perhaps even a superior SG. There is more than one way to skin a cat, West's approach to the SG spot isn't exactly the same as Wades but it certainly looks top-tier all-time caliber.

Wade has a broken jumper, West has a flawless jumper, I mean, for all the things Wade can do he's still a shooting guard that can't shoot. That said, he can absorb more contact than West inside and probably finish more and1's due to his bulkier frame - that's useful. Dunking he can obviously do better than West too (there's only 2 clips of West dunking) but we're talking about who's the better player not better dunker, a dunk is just 2 points, same as a layup - you don't get points for style this goes back to the Blake Griffin and Tim Duncan comparison. Dwyane Wade's game looks incredible on highlights to the casual fan, because he's a great athlete and can make circus shots and connect on lobs. But fundamentally speaking, West is Duncan-like in his approach to the game he's not trying to do any of that stuff, and what he does is no less effective it can even be argued as more effective because the things that he does do not depend on athleticism - you can repeat fundamental moves far more consistently than you can repeat off-balance circus shots. And you even point out he is constantly hustling yet you interpret that as a bad thing? The dude was probably a nightmare to guard due to his movement, and inversely a nightmare to have guarding you cause he sticks to you like glue - look at his highlights in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGlryGCKtTo
To get to his defense go to 7:55... look how many defensive plays he turns into offense either through blocks or steals. He's even doing chase-down blocks and in one clip in the NBA Finals from 1966 in the final minutes (I'm familiar with the play) he forcefully takes the ball right out of Bill Russell's hands and shoots a jumper in his face... talk about ice cold

If your not trolling and you really are being serious about not seeing how "great" West looks I think the problem here could be that you simply haven't seen enough successful varieties of playing style in the game of basketball... because you don't need to be athletic or incorporate style into your game in order to flat-out dominate the competition. Kevin Love, Steve Nash, and Andrew Bogut and I'll throw in Dirk Nowitzki and heck, even Tim Duncan are NOT freak athletes yet they all made varying degrees of dominant impact in this league. Like I said earlier there is more than one way to skin a cat. Look at Duncan - he's regarded as the GOAT PF... then ask yourself, if someone made Tim Duncan highlights to show to future generations, would he look more impressive than the inferior (but more athletic) Blake Griffin?

Maybe to better illustrate my point, here's a quick glimpse of 3 other guards from West's era - note how much more impressive and modern their handles look than West's... But West is a top 3 SG all-time, these guys are not in his company in terms of all-time ability, he dominated them and dominated the rest of the league they competed against better than they did despite how superior they might look in "highlights"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDtxGg2nLps

Sssmush
11-07-2012, 01:12 AM
To address this and the other response you just made, I don't think people are comparing West's and Wade's style or athleticism - they are comparing his potential impact and collective abilities that add up to him being at the very least a competent and perhaps even a superior SG. There is more than one way to skin a cat, West's approach to the SG spot isn't exactly the same as Wades but it certainly looks top-tier all-time caliber.

Wade has a broken jumper, West has a flawless jumper, I mean, for all the things Wade can do he's still a shooting guard that can't shoot. That said, he can absorb more contact than West inside and probably finish more and1's due to his bulkier frame - that's useful. Dunking he can obviously do better than West too (there's only 2 clips of West dunking) but we're talking about who's the better player not better dunker, a dunk is just 2 points, same as a layup - you don't get points for style this goes back to the Blake Griffin and Tim Duncan comparison. Dwyane Wade's game looks incredible on highlights to the casual fan, because he's a great athlete and can make circus shots and connect on lobs. But fundamentally speaking, West is Duncan-like in his approach to the game he's not trying to do any of that stuff, and what he does is no less effective it can even be argued as more effective because the things that he does do not depend on athleticism - you can repeat fundamental moves far more consistently than you can repeat off-balance circus shots. And you even point out he is constantly hustling yet you interpret that as a bad thing? The dude was probably a nightmare to guard due to his movement, and inversely a nightmare to have guarding you cause he sticks to you like glue - look at his highlights in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGlryGCKtTo
To get to his defense go to 7:55... look how many defensive plays he turns into offense either through blocks or steals. He's even doing chase-down blocks and in one clip in the NBA Finals from 1966 in the final minutes (I'm familiar with the play) he forcefully takes the ball right out of Bill Russell's hands and shoots a jumper in his face... talk about ice cold

If your not trolling and you really are being serious about not seeing how "great" West looks I think the problem here could be that you simply haven't seen enough successful varieties of playing style in the game of basketball... because you don't need to be athletic or incorporate style into your game in order to flat-out dominate the competition. Kevin Love, Steve Nash, and Andrew Bogut and I'll throw in Dirk Nowitzki and heck, even Tim Duncan are NOT freak athletes yet they all made varying degrees of dominant impact in this league. Like I said earlier there is more than one way to skin a cat. Look at Duncan - he's regarded as the GOAT PF... then ask yourself, if someone made Tim Duncan highlights to show to future generations, would he look more impressive than the inferior (but more athletic) Blake Griffin?

Maybe to better illustrate my point, here's a quick glimpse of 3 other guards from West's era - note how much more impressive and modern their handles look than West's... But West is a top 3 SG all-time, these guys are not in his company in terms of all-time ability, he dominated them and dominated the rest of the league they competed against better than they did despite how superior they might look in "highlights"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDtxGg2nLps

You make some good points.

I did think that specifically the Wade comparison was really off-base, but obviously West was a fine player.

I will say that KLove and Nash ARE athletic freaks, every bit as talented as guys like Wade, and shouldn't be discounted at all.

Chronz
11-07-2012, 02:27 AM
OMG, see, this is why I think you guys are joking or trolling me or something. You keep comparing him to WADE, insisting that he is somehow comparable to Wade.
Your forgetting the word height. Im comparing his height to Wade and mentioning the gangly reach both have. Obviously they have different games, West wasn't as dependent on his athletic gifts and lax ball handling rules.


Jeeez, ok, so on paper he is the same height as Wade. After that, the comparison STOPS.
I never intended for it to go any further. You see when you blatantly exaggerate your perceived shortcomings, I need only facts to discredit you. He was Wade's HEIGHT.


Maybe if you were comparing him to Brent Barry or JJ Reddick or something, maybe we could talk. But Wade? That just seems like you are intentionally trying to yank my chain.
Im glad you feel that way, thats how I feel when you compare the Logo with guys like them. Now whats more believable, me saying West was Wade's height or that "Jerry couldn't get a shot off in today's NBA"? Care to make a poll on that one? :o



I think part of the problem is that West dribbles around in a low crouch, often looking down at the ball, and that makes him look smaller than he really is.
You have to put yourself in his era, there is no 3pt line so the spacing will always be inhibited. Foul rates were low, not because players didn't foul but because you were allowed more freedom as defenders. Theres a reason West broke his nose like 10 different times in his career, **** was rough back then. Then you get to the palming restrictions with ball handling, I would agree that ball handling has improved but thats somewhat a product of different fundamentals being stressed due to these changes. Most crossovers you see today would be travels in that day and age. In his era you would emphasize ball protection above anything else.

Just look at some of Pistol Pete's best games, he had modern day handles but his style lent himself to some of the most turnover prone play you would ever see because he didn't stress the fundamentals for HIS ERA. Pistol had sick range in an era without a 3pt shot (what an idiot), which means that even if he was a really good shooter all it did was make those shots an inefficient source of offense for his team. Thats what you get when a player doesn't emphasize the proper traits relative to his era.

Why do you think the mid range/in between game has gone extinct, 3pt shots have replaced them. Point being, the evolution of the game brings forth those stylistic differences your seeing.



I see him in comparison to the basket, and his head looks like it is five feet below the rim when he's dribbling around. And I know that most of those forwards and centers are like 6'7"
Thats a myth bro, look up the facts.



A better comparison for Wade would be somebody like Dr J or Michael Jordan.
Not if you were comparing height/length/Hand size.


I mean, I am talking "swooooosh" all the way!! woo hoo. Wow, Jerry West would be unstoppable in today's NBA, he'd be just like Wade, you're absolutely right.
Like Wade? Not quite, Id say he would be a cross between Stockton and Drexler. Combining the best qualities of both and being able to provide dominant scoring or playmaking depending on the team needs.

Brent Barry was a fine, underrated player but he wasn't even as good as his dad much less Jerry. Its an absurd comparison to make.

CavaliersFTW
11-07-2012, 03:06 AM
You make some good points.

I did think that specifically the Wade comparison was really off-base, but obviously West was a fine player.

I will say that KLove and Nash ARE athletic freaks, every bit as talented as guys like Wade, and shouldn't be discounted at all.

lmfao c'mon man KLove and Nash "athletic freaks"!?

Jerry West dunks on random film from 40 years ago two more times than Nash has ever dunked in his entire life. Jerry West's wingspan to height ratio is beyond that of either Kevin Love or Steve Nash - and he probably had a higher vertical than both and certainly had more quickness than Love and probably Nash as well - yet with a straight face you compared West to guys at your YMCA while inversely putting Steve Nash and Kevin Love (who used to be fat) on the elite pedestal of "athletic freaks"... You've been brainwashed by NBA marketing straight up. Kevin Love and Steve Nash are average Joe's as far as athleticism is concerned, without any remarkable physical gifts to speak of aside from perhaps peripheral vision for Nash. They are in the NBA and do well because of hard work more than anything not because of physical gifts. Hell, both of those guys lie about their height just to increase their stock - Steve Nash is 6-1 but lists 6-3 and Kevin Love measured 6-7.75 yet lists 6-10 - there is nothing physically remarkable about either of them

Sssmush
11-07-2012, 06:28 AM
lmfao c'mon man KLove and Nash "athletic freaks"!?

Jerry West dunks on random film from 40 years ago two more times than Nash has ever dunked in his entire life. Jerry West's wingspan to height ratio is beyond that of either Kevin Love or Steve Nash - and he probably had a higher vertical than both and certainly had more quickness than Love and probably Nash as well - yet with a straight face you compared West to guys at your YMCA while inversely putting Steve Nash and Kevin Love (who used to be fat) on the elite pedestal of "athletic freaks"... You've been brainwashed by NBA marketing straight up. Kevin Love and Steve Nash are average Joe's as far as athleticism is concerned, without any remarkable physical gifts to speak of aside from perhaps peripheral vision for Nash. They are in the NBA and do well because of hard work more than anything not because of physical gifts. Hell, both of those guys lie about their height just to increase their stock - Steve Nash is 6-1 but lists 6-3 and Kevin Love measured 6-7.75 yet lists 6-10 - there is nothing physically remarkable about either of them

Kevin Love is extremely physically talented. He has tremendous balance and reflexes and good hops; I'd say he is very talented.

Nash is also very talented. He is incredibly quick and fast, and is able to move much larger and stronger defenders back onto their heels constantly, while at the same time having the composure to make complex plays for his teammates. He also has incredible stamina, as well as durability. You're talking about somebody who might be a PG in the All Star game at 40+.

Sssmush
11-07-2012, 06:40 AM
Your forgetting the word height. Im comparing his height to Wade and mentioning the gangly reach both have. Obviously they have different games, West wasn't as dependent on his athletic gifts and lax ball handling rules. I never intended for it to go any further. You see when you blatantly exaggerate your perceived shortcomings, I need only facts to discredit you. He was Wade's HEIGHT.Im glad you feel that way, thats how I feel when you compare the Logo with guys like them. Now whats more believable, me saying West was Wade's height or that "Jerry couldn't get a shot off in today's NBA"? Care to make a poll on that one? :oYou have to put yourself in his era, there is no 3pt line so the spacing will always be inhibited. Foul rates were low, not because players didn't foul but because you were allowed more freedom as defenders. Theres a reason West broke his nose like 10 different times in his career, **** was rough back then. Then you get to the palming restrictions with ball handling, I would agree that ball handling has improved but thats somewhat a product of different fundamentals being stressed due to these changes. Most crossovers you see today would be travels in that day and age. In his era you would emphasize ball protection above anything else.Just look at some of Pistol Pete's best games, he had modern day handles but his style lent himself to some of the most turnover prone play you would ever see because he didn't stress the fundamentals for HIS ERA. Pistol had sick range in an era without a 3pt shot (what an idiot), which means that even if he was a really good shooter all it did was make those shots an inefficient source of offense for his team. Thats what you get when a player doesn't emphasize the proper traits relative to his era.
Why do you think the mid range/in between game has gone extinct, 3pt shots have replaced them. Point being, the evolution of the game brings forth those stylistic differences your seeing. Thats a myth bro, look up the facts.Not if you were comparing height/length/Hand size.Like Wade? Not quite, Id say he would be a cross between Stockton and Drexler. Combining the best qualities of both and being able to provide dominant scoring or playmaking depending on the team needs.Brent Barry was a fine, underrated player but he wasn't even as good as his dad much less Jerry. Its an absurd comparison to make.

Dude, I respect the amount of knowledge you have about the NBA. So, if you say that West compares well with Stockton and Drexler, or a combination of those guys, then I am willing to accept that.

I always imagined him as maybe a smoother SG-size Larry Bird type, or some kind of classical hardwood pure shootin country boy or something like that.

I have to tell you though, I wasn't overly blown away by that video at first. On going back and rewatching it though, I do see that there is more to it than meets the eye, that West does have a certain crispness and sharp confidence and a nice scoring touch.

In my defense, part of your reply to me was


the reality was that he was at least Wade's height with incredible length and the fastest pull-up J in the history of the game.

and maybe I misread that as a direct comparison to Wade's skillset, but still, I initially found that to be a bit much, as it didn't look to me like West had "incredible length" in that video, and also I wasn't seeing the "fastest pull-up J in history" or whatever. Maybe it's the retro style, but I'm used to seeing players in the modern era turn the corner and elevate for their jump shots, and a lot of the shots in that video seemed like quick set shots, or running floaters or something. I just didn't see too much of the majestic long range precision that I always imagined of the logo.

anyways, there is more in the video though than I first thought, there is some good stuff in there.

kbtwofour
11-07-2012, 03:55 PM
One of my favorite Laker players of all time.

Mike Brown would turn The Logo into Blake 2.0. :facepalm:

Swashcuff
11-07-2012, 04:20 PM
From looking at that video what position do you guys think Jerry West played?

CavaliersFTW
11-07-2012, 04:24 PM
From looking at that video what position do you guys think Jerry West played?

He played SG the first 2/3rds of his career, than in his final years and during championship season he played PG and so rescinded scoring a bit in place of assists - he went from leading the league in scoring, to leading the league in assists so he played both positions great but with that energy and jumper he is a more natural 2-guard

Swashcuff
11-07-2012, 04:34 PM
He played SG the first 2/3rds of his career, than in his final years and during championship season he played PG and so rescinded scoring a bit in place of assists - he went from leading the league in scoring, to leading the league in assists so he played both positions great but with that energy and jumper he is a more natural 2-guard

2/3s?

What years exactly are we speaking of?

dee279
11-07-2012, 04:42 PM
Looks like JJ Redick to me

Heediot
11-07-2012, 04:47 PM
LOL, it's obvious the crossover was not prevalent/existent back then. Gotta see how all the other dudes handle the rock.

CavaliersFTW
11-07-2012, 04:47 PM
2/3s?

What years exactly are we speaking of?

61-70 = a more traditional SG role

71-74 = PG/SG swing duties with flip-flopping the backcourt duties letting former PG Gail Goodrich score and be the SG while West orchestrated the flow of offense - it worked very well they win a title this way in 72. Not sure if his duties changed again after Wilt left after 73 though (played just 31 games then he retired that season anyways)

Heediot
11-07-2012, 04:49 PM
In the first three seconds of the video you can clearly see West dribbling with his left hand! ;)

There was one pint where he made 5-6 consecutive dribbles with the left haha

Swashcuff
11-07-2012, 05:00 PM
61-70 = a more traditional SG role

But he was the primary ball handler every year from 62 go forward. In his first year in the league Baylor controlled the offense but by his 2nd season he took full control of those duties.


71-74 = PG/SG swing duties with flip-flopping the backcourt duties letting former PG Gail Goodrich score and be the SG while West orchestrated the flow of offense - it worked very well they win a title this way in 72. Not sure if his duties changed again after Wilt left after 73 though (played just 31 games then he retired that season anyways)

Actually I think he played the PG exclusively in those years. From all that I have read, seen and the stats everything points to West being the point guard but because of his shoot first mentally, his immense scoring ability and his size he is regarded as an SG in the later years where people attempt to define each of the guard positions unlike how they did when he played.

CavaliersFTW
11-07-2012, 05:01 PM
LOL, it's obvious the crossover was not prevalent/existent back then. Gotta see how all the other dudes handle the rock.

The crossover existed back then, Archie Clark did it all the time to clear space for his shots so this is not true at all. Less players did it back then because it was more difficult to perform than today due to stricter dribbling rules (palms always had to face down, otherwise you'd get whistled for palming) Just because West didn't use a crossover doesn't mean it didn't exist.

Keep your eyes on Archie Clark, he handles the ball using crossovers, and Eurosteps, and jabsteps and other modern-style moves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUqkuCic3GA

Ever since the NBA started letting players handle the ball without enforcing palming players have been given more freedom to do what they want with the ball. It effects player movement a lot. Today guys like Parker can literally flip their hand upside down on the ball while dribbling to have better control over it (which I see him doing all the time when he uses his off hand).

Nick O
11-07-2012, 05:02 PM
can he use 2 hands or? ...

sp1derm00
11-07-2012, 05:55 PM
If he were taken out from his time, and inserted into the NBA today... he would not survive.

If he were given the training and benefits of watching past players, he would probably be the same superstar he was back in the day.

CavaliersFTW
11-07-2012, 06:16 PM
If he were taken out from his time, and inserted into the NBA today... he would not survive.

If he were given the training and benefits of watching past players, he would probably be the same superstar he was back in the day.

I think he'd thrive out the gate, and would probably do worse if he changed his game up - you can't teach better fundamentals or teach him to make better decisions than what he already displays - his game style is like I said earlier in the thread "Keep it simple stupid" like Tim Duncan. Imagine if Tim Duncan tried to be play like anyone other than himself... he'd be worse. To a casual onlooker Wests game might not impress but if you are a student of the game what he's doing translates to success. You guys must have some goggles on if you can't see how Jerry West would translate well today - he is extremely complete and fundamentally sound on both ends

Heediot
11-07-2012, 07:31 PM
The crossover existed back then, Archie Clark did it all the time to clear space for his shots so this is not true at all. Less players did it back then because it was more difficult to perform than today due to stricter dribbling rules (palms always had to face down, otherwise you'd get whistled for palming) Just because West didn't use a crossover doesn't mean it didn't exist.

Keep your eyes on Archie Clark, he handles the ball using crossovers, and Eurosteps, and jabsteps and other modern-style moves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUqkuCic3GA

Ever since the NBA started letting players handle the ball without enforcing palming players have been given more freedom to do what they want with the ball. It effects player movement a lot. Today guys like Parker can literally flip their hand upside down on the ball while dribbling to have better control over it (which I see him doing all the time when he uses his off hand).

Cool Video. Thanks for the info and link. Artis Gilmore is holding his own lol.

Hangtime
11-07-2012, 08:37 PM
The crossover existed back then, Archie Clark did it all the time to clear space for his shots so this is not true at all. Less players did it back then because it was more difficult to perform than today due to stricter dribbling rules (palms always had to face down, otherwise you'd get whistled for palming) Just because West didn't use a crossover doesn't mean it didn't exist.

Keep your eyes on Archie Clark, he handles the ball using crossovers, and Eurosteps, and jabsteps and other modern-style moves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUqkuCic3GA

Ever since the NBA started letting players handle the ball without enforcing palming players have been given more freedom to do what they want with the ball. It effects player movement a lot. Today guys like Parker can literally flip their hand upside down on the ball while dribbling to have better control over it (which I see him doing all the time when he uses his off hand).

Archie Clark looked like a modern day player out there with that dribble. This was the NBA-ABA all star game correct? Only two was played and I believe Jerry West was supposed to be at one of those games as well as Kareem. I can't believe this was not broadcast on national network broadcast. I heard those games actually came down to the wire. They say DR.J was incredible in that game at the end which is unfortunately lost.

Chronz
11-07-2012, 09:30 PM
If he were taken out from his time, and inserted into the NBA today... he would not survive.

If he were given the training and benefits of watching past players, he would probably be the same superstar he was back in the day.

LOL thats too extreme. What makes you think this?

C-Style
11-07-2012, 09:44 PM
LOL thats too extreme. What makes you think this?

because players like Bird, Ginobli, Nash & Dirk are successful

Chronz
11-07-2012, 09:50 PM
because players like Bird, Ginobli, Nash & Dirk are successful

huh?