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View Full Version : Deron is slightly overrated...



Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 05:36 PM
Everyone talks about how great Deron Williams is and how he's a top 3 point guard in this league, but what has he done for the nets?? All other top seven point guards in the league has had their team in the playoffs or on the brink. But the one some call the best has not helped the Nets make the playoffs, two years in a row. Great point guards make their teammates better, point blank, plain and simple. Who has Deron made better since he's been there?

Sound off!

Gritz
07-08-2012, 05:38 PM
I was looking for another troll thread

Gritz
07-08-2012, 05:38 PM
Who are your top 10 point guards?

DoMeFavors
07-08-2012, 05:40 PM
Like I said before KG,Kobe,Wade,Paul Pierce all missed the playoffs when they lacked talent and Lopez played 5 games...

He isnt overated

yankeefan54
07-08-2012, 05:40 PM
Really? Who was he supposed to make better. What did Chris Paul do his last few years in new Orleans. No way is he overratted in fact he is underatted to me.

StarvingKnick22
07-08-2012, 05:40 PM
not really he just likes to score more than he like to assist

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 05:41 PM
Really? Who was he supposed to make better. What did Chris Paul do his last few years in new Orleans. No way is he overratted in fact he is underatted to me.

Chris Paul made the playoffs with a bum squad! That's what he did.

KnickaBocka.44
07-08-2012, 05:41 PM
I see what the OP is saying but it's important to remember that Brook Lopez was hurt for most of the year. When the season started he was the only real talent on the roster apart from D-Wil and I think that caused Deron to become a little frustrated/disinterested for part of the year. His shooting numbers were down quite a bit also at the start of the season.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
07-08-2012, 05:42 PM
He's a top 10 player. He played with the second worst supporting cast in the league. It isn't his fault.

b@llhog24
07-08-2012, 05:42 PM
not really he just likes to score more than he like to assist

:pity:

yankeefan54
07-08-2012, 05:43 PM
Wade missed the playoffs before Lebron and bosh got there.

b@llhog24
07-08-2012, 05:43 PM
The Knicks roster is overrated. Well except for Novak :drool:

DoMeFavors
07-08-2012, 05:43 PM
Chris Paul made the playoffs with a bum squad! That's what he did.

He had David West,Okafor, Ariza and shooters who on the Nets this year was any of those guys?

Chill_Will_24
07-08-2012, 05:43 PM
I swear i knew you would make this thread. This all started in the "Knicks Big 3 vs Heat Big 3" threas

yankeefan54
07-08-2012, 05:44 PM
Deron Williams has made the playoffs before so yea

Fnom11
07-08-2012, 05:45 PM
Deron is about as solid as they come. He's going to have a great season this year.

bucketss
07-08-2012, 05:46 PM
op probably thinks jeremy lin is one of those seven point guards

HouRealCoach
07-08-2012, 05:47 PM
Chris Paul had West, Ariza, Okafor...

This is the worst thread of the offseason lol... I clicked on it just to see everyone's response

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 05:47 PM
Who are your top 10 point guards?

Chris Paul- playoffs
Tony Parker- playoffs
Steve Nash- on the brink, team at .500
Ty Lawson- playoffs
Russel Westbrook - playoffs
Mike Conley - playoffs
Ricky Rubio - had team playing .500

I just want everyone to stop making excuses for the dude and stop comparing him to point guards that actually makes a difference to their team. The Jazz made the playoffs without him.

kingkenny01
07-08-2012, 05:48 PM
he might just be the best pg guard in the league, its between paul and him

b@llhog24
07-08-2012, 05:49 PM
Chris Paul- playoffs
Tony Parker- playoffs
Steve Nash- on the brink, team at .500
Ty Lawson- playoffs
Russel Westbrook - playoffs
Mike Conley - playoffs
Ricky Rubio - had team playing .500

I just want everyone to stop making excuses for the dude and stop comparing him to point guards that actually makes a difference to their team. The Jazz made the playoffs without him.

:laugh:

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 05:50 PM
I can't deny he has game, but I just don't see where he makes players better. Sorry.

kobemelo
07-08-2012, 05:50 PM
Really? Who was he supposed to make better. What did Chris Paul do his last few years in new Orleans. No way is he overratted in fact he is underatted to me.

Ahmen. This pretty much sums it up (not the young cp part but the rest). smh @ OP :facepalm:

Deron #1 pg in my books, I don't think any pg as an individual can talk to deron. I got Rose over Paul to. Then rondo, westbrook etc.

b@llhog24
07-08-2012, 05:51 PM
Actually he is slightly overrated, but the reasons in the OP was just stupid.

greg_ory_2005
07-08-2012, 05:51 PM
If you put Paul, Rose, Westbrook, etc on the Nets, the team would still suck.

b@llhog24
07-08-2012, 05:51 PM
I can't deny he has game, but I just don't see where he makes players better. Sorry.

:facepalm: Close this **** thread.

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 05:51 PM
he might just be the best pg guard in the league, its between paul and him

Chris Paul, Rondo and Steve Nash is better! Not even close.

Chill_Will_24
07-08-2012, 05:52 PM
If you put Paul, Rose, Westbrook, etc on the Nets, the team would still suck.

This. Although with Paul im sure we would have made the playoffs. Paul is so underrated... if that makes sense.

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 05:52 PM
:facepalm: Close this **** thread.

If it was a Melo bash thread, no one would be saying close it :facepalm:

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 05:53 PM
This. Although with Paul im sure we would have made the playoffs. Paul is so underrated... if that makes sense.

But they would definitely have a better record.. Agree?

StarvingKnick22
07-08-2012, 05:55 PM
If you put Paul, Rose, Westbrook, etc on the Nets, the team would still suck.

this :clap:

DoMeFavors
07-08-2012, 05:55 PM
Chris Paul- playoffs
Tony Parker- playoffs
Steve Nash- on the brink, team at .500
Ty Lawson- playoffs
Russel Westbrook - playoffs
Mike Conley - playoffs
Ricky Rubio - had team playing .500

I just want everyone to stop making excuses for the dude and stop comparing him to point guards that actually makes a difference to their team. The Jazz made the playoffs without him.

Best PFs in the game

Scalabrine-playoffs
Ryan Anderon-playoffs
Boris Diaw-playoffs

not Kevin Love-no playoffs

BigBongTheory
07-08-2012, 05:55 PM
Chris Paul- playoffs
Tony Parker- playoffs
Steve Nash- on the brink, team at .500
Ty Lawson- playoffs
Russel Westbrook - playoffs
Mike Conley - playoffs
Ricky Rubio - had team playing .500

I just want everyone to stop making excuses for the dude and stop comparing him to point guards that actually makes a difference to their team. The Jazz made the playoffs without him.

Your mind is somewhere else. I guess you would rate Matt Cassel a top 10 QB too because he led his team to the brink of the playoffs right?

It's not a one man sport, if you were talking about tennis, then you would have a story. Basketball consists of more than one player competing for a championship.

b@llhog24
07-08-2012, 05:55 PM
This. Although with Paul im sure we would have made the playoffs. Paul is so underrated... if that makes sense.

Actually all of them would've done better than Deron imo. :shrug:


If it was a Melo bash thread, no one would be saying close it :facepalm:

Actually I would since he's my 2nd fav player. :facepalm:

beerman28
07-08-2012, 05:56 PM
Hes good but def overrated

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 05:56 PM
Ahmen. This pretty much sums it up (not the young cp part but the rest). smh @ OP :facepalm:

Deron #1 pg in my books, I don't think any pg as an individual can talk to deron. I got Rose over Paul to. Then rondo, westbrook etc.

So winning doesn't mean anything now?? Getting your team to the playoffs doesn't matter anymore?? :facepalm:

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 05:57 PM
Best PFs in the game

Scalabrine-playoffs
Ryan Anderon-playoffs
Boris Diaw-playoffs

not Kevin Love-no playoffs

We're talking point guards, stay on topic :facepalm:

JoeyBoy718
07-08-2012, 05:58 PM
Didn't he make the Jazz the only legitimate Western Conference team to challenge the Lakers when they made the Finals 3 straight years? There's a difference between making the playoffs as a team with no chance and actually having a legitimate chance to win it all. Deron had the Jazz as a top 5 team in the NBA for about 3-4 years. I don't think the Hornets were ever really that good under Paul, despite making the playoffs as a low seed and not challenging at all.

THE MTL
07-08-2012, 05:58 PM
Everyone talks about how great Deron Williams is and how he's a top 3 point guard in this league, but what has he done for the nets?? All other top seven point guards in the league has had their team in the playoffs or on the brink. But the one some call the best has not helped the Nets make the playoffs, two years in a row. Great point guards make their teammates better, point blank, plain and simple. Who has Deron made better since he's been there?

Sound off!

Dude have you seen the Nets roster? It was basically MarShon and Humphries this year. Deron Williams is going to show everyone why he is the second best PG in the league next season. He is far more complete than Westbrook and Rondo.

beasted86
07-08-2012, 05:59 PM
Legitimate topic, and not a troll thread.

People are obsessed with either winning.... or all stats outside of winning, what can I say. It's a polarizing topic. But the fact is you have some guys who just put their team over the top, and they can win with a crap supporting cast(05-07 Kobe, 04-10 LeBron, 08-10 Wade, etc...)... and you have others who are bowed down to while consistently in the lottery (08-12 Love, 10-12 D. Williams).

At some point this is not an imaginary topic, and players ranking when comparing them to others HAS to rise or fall.

kobemelo
07-08-2012, 05:59 PM
So winning doesn't mean anything now?? Getting your team to the playoffs doesn't matter anymore?? :facepalm:

lmao no PG could win with D-Wills roster last year playboy. The second best player played 5 games. This argument is irrelevant for D-Wills Nets. He sure did a lot of winning in Utah though.. Guess you forgot about all that.

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 05:59 PM
Your mind is somewhere else. I guess you would rate Matt Cassel a top 10 QB too because he led his team to the brink of the playoffs right?

It's not a one man sport, if you were talking about tennis, then you would have a story. Basketball consists of more than one player competing for a championship.

I'm not talking championships, thats a total team acomplishment. But one player can make a difference, especially one that's top five in the leage. Agree?

DoMeFavors
07-08-2012, 06:00 PM
We're talking point guards, stay on topic :facepalm:

Oh im sorry so there are like 24 pgs in the NBA better than Deron because 16 made the playoffs and the other 8 were near .500?

THE MTL
07-08-2012, 06:00 PM
I can't deny he has game, but I just don't see where he makes players better. Sorry.

Carlos Boozer rings a bell? The dude looks amnestable in Chicago

knicksfan42
07-08-2012, 06:01 PM
Actually he is slightly overrated, but the reasons in the OP was just stupid.

:nod:No need for a thread even if he is slightly overrated.

kobemelo
07-08-2012, 06:01 PM
Didn't he make the Jazz the only legitimate Western Conference team to challenge the Lakers when they made the Finals 3 straight years? There's a difference between making the playoffs as a team with no chance and actually having a legitimate chance to win it all. Deron had the Jazz as a top 5 team in the NBA for about 3-4 years. I don't think the Hornets were ever really that good under Paul, despite making the playoffs as a low seed and not challenging at all.

This right here. Except Hornets had one deep-ish run I remember but not the consistent success D-Will had

JerseyPalahniuk
07-08-2012, 06:01 PM
But they would definitely have a better record.. Agree?

I think you need elaboration on what the supporting cast of Deron Williams was. After Kris Humphries (2100) these were the 7 players that played the most minutes on the team last season:

Anthony Morrow - 1600
Marshon Brooks - 1600
Shelden Williams - 1200
Deshawn Stevenson - 900
Johan Petro - 900
Jordan Farmar - 800
Sundiata Gaines - 800

Injuries killed us.
Is that better or worse than Emeka Okafor, David West, and Trevor Ariza?

JoeyBoy718
07-08-2012, 06:02 PM
Are you forgetting how legit that Jazz team was? They were a top 5 team in the NBA along with the Lakers and Celtics. Paul's Hornets were like a top 15 team in the NBA. Deron's Jazz team > Paul's Hornets team all those years. He had one bad year and people forget how good this guy is. What about when T-Mac was in his prime on the last place Magic?

netsgiantsyanks
07-08-2012, 06:02 PM
Chris Paul- playoffs
Tony Parker- playoffs
Steve Nash- on the brink, team at .500
Ty Lawson- playoffs
Russel Westbrook - playoffs
Mike Conley - playoffs
Ricky Rubio - had team playing .500

I just want everyone to stop making excuses for the dude and stop comparing him to point guards that actually makes a difference to their team. The Jazz made the playoffs without him.

did any of these point guards have a d-league starting lineup and johan ****ing petro at center? oh, ok.

beasted86
07-08-2012, 06:03 PM
But to add, as far as D-Will... anyone claiming he has been a top 3 PG the past 2 seasons is high on crack.

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 06:03 PM
lmao no PG could win with D-Wills roster last year playboy. The second best player played 5 games. This argument is irrelevant for D-Wills Nets. He sure did a lot of winning in Utah though.. Guess you forgot about all that.

Me forget?? When my team was missing its first best player and it's second best player, I watched a point guard come in from the end of the bench and lift his team to an 8-1 record. Putting them back in playoff contention. That's what great point guards are capable of. Injuries are no excuse. My Knicks were down three players in the playoffs but that didn't stop anyone from bashing them.

yanksrock
07-08-2012, 06:03 PM
Deron's a boss!!

Chronz
07-08-2012, 06:04 PM
He had David West,Okafor, Ariza and shooters who on the Nets this year was any of those guys?

Yea but CP3 as a rookie outproduced Deron the last few years. I dont see how exposing Deron as someone so reliant on his team to produce is a good thing. I mean, when CP3 isnt sharing the court with his star players his production increases not decrease.

netsgiantsyanks
07-08-2012, 06:04 PM
what about the other 5 and a half years with the jazz when he had a legit team?

Swashcuff
07-08-2012, 06:04 PM
The OP has no idea how to valu a player. The great Kareem Abdul Jabbar MISSED the post season in his PRIME so who in the hell is Deron Willams. Basketball is a team sport and it matters not what position you play what matters in your supporting cast.

b@llhog24
07-08-2012, 06:05 PM
Legitimate topic, and not a troll thread.

People are obsessed with either winning.... or all stats outside of winning, what can I say. It's a polarizing topic. But the fact is you have some guys who just put their team over the top, and they can win with a crap supporting cast(05-07 Kobe, 04-10 LeBron, 08-10 Wade, etc...)... and you have others who are bowed down to while consistently in the lottery (08-12 Love, 10-12 D. Williams).

At some point this is not an imaginary topic, and players ranking when comparing them to others HAS to rise or fall.

Lmao Deron ain't them and had WAY less to work with.


I'm not talking championships, thats a total team acomplishment. But one player can make a difference, especially one that's top five in the leage. Agree?

Who the **** would put Dwill in the top 5?

netsgiantsyanks
07-08-2012, 06:05 PM
deron needs some type of supporting cast to be completely effective. the past 2 seasons, he had ****.

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 06:05 PM
But to add, as far as D-Will... anyone claiming he has been a top 3 PG the past 2 seasons is high on crack.

My point exactly!! :clap: if he hasn't been top three in the last two seasons, then how the heck is he top three now? :facepalm:

NYK|NYY
07-08-2012, 06:05 PM
Kind of pointless to use last year as a part of the sample when discussing DWill. If he is overrated this year will be a good indicator but for my money he is a top 3 pg.

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 06:07 PM
The OP has no idea how to valu a player. The great Kareem Abdul Jabbar MISSED the post season in his PRIME so who in the hell is Deron Willams. Basketball is a team sport and it matters not what position you play what matters in your supporting cast.

His numbers went down on top of not making the playoffs, so how is he top 3??

kobemelo
07-08-2012, 06:08 PM
Me forget?? When my team was missing its first best player and it's second best player, I watched a point guard come in from the end of the bench and lift his team to an 8-1 record. Putting them back in playoff contention. That's what great point guards are capable of. Injuries are no excuse. My Knicks were down three players in the playoffs but that didn't stop anyone from bashing them.

I thought this was about Deron? But you can't even compare a small stretch of a season to Dwill's years of dominance in Utah.

A year (and a half in Dwill case) with a terrible roster = no winning. Ask KD and Westbrook when they first came in the leauge. Winning is more of a team thing than an individual thing.

JoeyBoy718
07-08-2012, 06:09 PM
This thread is ridiculous. Deron is probably the most underrated star in the league. He was having a good season his last year in Utah but locker room issues tore the team apart. He basically had the worst supporting cast in the NBA this past year and still put up beast numbers. He didn't have a bad year, his team did. Every team has a bad year. The Heat had the worst record in the league under Wade a few years ago. The Magic had the worst record in the league when they had T-Mac. Even the T-Wolves have been awful under K-Love. In fact, the only time the T-Wolves looked legit was when Rubio was healthy and playing at his best. You need a team.

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 06:09 PM
deron needs some type of supporting cast to be completely effective. the past 2 seasons, he had ****.

After Lin made a complete fool of Deron, who was he winning with? Tony Douglas, shumpert, Jeffries, Novak, Fields. C'mon man.

kobemelo
07-08-2012, 06:10 PM
The OP has no idea how to valu a player. The great Kareem Abdul Jabbar MISSED the post season in his PRIME so who in the hell is Deron Willams. Basketball is a team sport and it matters not what position you play what matters in your supporting cast.

This. This may be the best post I've ever read on here.

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 06:10 PM
I thought this was about Deron? But you can't even compare a small stretch of a season to Dwill's years of dominance in Utah.

A year (and a half in Dwill case) with a terrible roster = no winning. Ask KD and Westbrook when they first came in the leauge. Winning is more of a team thing than an individual thing.

Deron Williams hasn't had a 8-1 stretch in over three years!

beasted86
07-08-2012, 06:10 PM
Lmao Deron ain't them and had WAY less to work with.



Who the **** would put Dwill in the top 5?

Well you're right, but if you check the PSD NBA player rankings, Deron has probably been voted top 10 the past 2 years though. My point still stands his ranking among PGs just HAS to fall.

He cannot have been top 3 this season or last when there are just so many other talented PGs in the NBA pushing their team to the next level.... while basically the Nets only made a baby improvement by trading for Williams in actual win percentage over the last year +. And the Jazz were out of the playoff picture before trading Deron.

Taking everything into perspective he's probably been more like 5-6 than top 3 the past 2 years.

JerseyPalahniuk
07-08-2012, 06:12 PM
Me forget?? When my team was missing its first best player and it's second best player, I watched a point guard come in from the end of the bench and lift his team to an 8-1 record. Putting them back in playoff contention. That's what great point guards are capable of. Injuries are no excuse. My Knicks were down three players in the playoffs but that didn't stop anyone from bashing them.

Hey man, did you read my post?

Kris Humphries
Anthony Morrow - 1600
Marshon Brooks - 1600
Shelden Williams - 1200
Deshawn Stevenson - 900
Johan Petro - 900
Jordan Farmar - 800
Sundiata Gaines - 800

would Jeremy Lin have gone 8-1 with these players are his rotation? No.

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 06:12 PM
This thread is ridiculous. Deron is probably the most underrated star in the league. He was having a good season his last year in Utah but locker room issues tore the team apart. He basically had the worst supporting cast in the NBA this past year and still put up beast numbers. He didn't have a bad year, his team did. Every team has a bad year. The Heat had the worst record in the league under Wade a few years ago. The Magic had the worst record in the league when they had T-Mac. Even the T-Wolves have been awful under K-Love. In fact, the only time the T-Wolves looked legit was when Rubio was healthy and playing at his best. You need a team.

Beast numbers?? This is what I'm taking about... He shot 40% from the field and 33% from three. :facepalm:

popo85
07-08-2012, 06:12 PM
Consistent top tier PG the last 6seasons.. Not overrated.

b@llhog24
07-08-2012, 06:13 PM
:nod:No need for a thread even if he is slightly overrated.

Agreed.


Me forget?? When my team was missing its first best player and it's second best player, I watched a point guard come in from the end of the bench and lift his team to an 8-1 record. Putting them back in playoff contention. That's what great point guards are capable of. Injuries are no excuse. My Knicks were down three players in the playoffs but that didn't stop anyone from bashing them.

Then the Knicks should have beaten Miami, right?


My point exactly!! :clap: if he hasn't been top three in the last two seasons, then how the heck is he top three now? :facepalm:

Because he's proven that he can produce at that level. He shouldn't be in terms of rankings based upon individual seasons though.

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 06:13 PM
Hey man, did you read my post?

Kris Humphries
Anthony Morrow - 1600
Marshon Brooks - 1600
Shelden Williams - 1200
Deshawn Stevenson - 900
Johan Petro - 900
Jordan Farmar - 800
Sundiata Gaines - 800

would Jeremy Lin have gone 8-1 with these players are his rotation? No.

If you actually make your players better, you have a chance. None of those players fed off of Deron. Not even one!

Swashcuff
07-08-2012, 06:13 PM
His numbers went down on top of not making the playoffs, so how is he top 3??

Child did you hear me say he's top 3? Over the past two seasons he's had a tough time cracking my top 5 but unlike yourself and other poster who can't understand how to accurately gauge an individual value in a team sport I dont base my opinions solely on team record. It's idiotic to the extreme.

If you only pay attention to team record and ignore system, coaching, supporting casts, conference, health etc then you obviously don't know how to gauge an individual. Just like the other guy who spoke of Love and Williams but ignore the fact that not too long ago a when Wade was healthy in 07-08 had a worst winning % with the Heat than Williams or Love ever had at any point in their career. Was Wade overrated?

fadedmario
07-08-2012, 06:14 PM
Severely overrated.

Jarvo
07-08-2012, 06:15 PM
Chris Paul- playoffs
Tony Parker- playoffs
Steve Nash- on the brink, team at .500
Ty Lawson- playoffs
Russel Westbrook - playoffs
Mike Conley - playoffs
Ricky Rubio - had team playing .500

I just want everyone to stop making excuses for the dude and stop comparing him to point guards that actually makes a difference to their team. The Jazz made the playoffs without him.


:facepalm: What in the bloody hell, I think he is a bit overrated but having Conley, Westbrook, Rubio & Lawson over him is crazy!


Rondo
CP3
Rose
Nash
Parker
Dwill

kobemelo
07-08-2012, 06:15 PM
Deron Williams hasn't had a 8-1 stretch in over three years!

He also hasn't had a full camp with the Nets. lol. You're underrating D Will boss and forgetting he got traded midway through a season (where his team was in the playoffs in the WEST), then had one of the worst rosters to go out wit night in night out the following year. If D Will was in LAC and CP in NJ you'd prob be making this thread about CP.

Swashcuff
07-08-2012, 06:16 PM
The OP tried to justify his opinion by calling Jeremy Lin great because he won 8 out of 9 games.... Really? So then I take it that Kobe, KG, Wade etc weren't great players since they weren't able to do so when they had piss poor supporting casts.

JerseysFinest
07-08-2012, 06:16 PM
Beast numbers?? This is what I'm taking about... He shot 40% from the field and 33% from three. :facepalm:

On a team where he held most of the offensive load? You are focusing on such a small sample size. The Nets team last year, and the year he joined the team, had a horrible supporting cast. Also at times, he dogged it. Nets fans and everyone saw it. But that doesn't mean he's overrated int he slightest. He may or may not be a top 3 point guard, we'll see this season when he plays with actual NBA players, but he is not overrated.

And by the way, let's not forget who brought Linsanity to a halting stop :p

JoeyBoy718
07-08-2012, 06:17 PM
So he's been off the past two years due to a transition to a new team and he's still been a top 5-6 PG? Considering all the talent at PG. And he's consistently been a top 2-3 PG throughout his entire career except the past year and a half? And he has the potential to be the #1 PG in the league. And how is he overrated?

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 06:17 PM
:facepalm: What in the bloody hell, I think he is a bit overrated but having Conley, Westbrook, Rubio & Lawson over him is crazy!


Rondo
CP3
Rose
Nash
Parker
Dwill

Didn't put Conley over him, but he is a top ten point guard. There was no order. Just naming the good ones.

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 06:19 PM
On a team where he held most of the offensive load? You are focusing on such a small sample size. The Nets team last year, and the year he joined the team, had a horrible supporting cast. Also at times, he dogged it. Nets fans and everyone saw it. But that doesn't mean he's overrated int he slightest. He may or may not be a top 3 point guard, we'll see this season when he plays with actual NBA players, but he is not overrated.

And by the way, let's not forget who brought Linsanity to a halting stop :p

Nah.. Lin kept going after that.

justinnum1
07-08-2012, 06:19 PM
:facepalm:

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 06:21 PM
The OP tried to justify his opinion by calling Jeremy Lin great because he won 8 out of 9 games.... Really? So then I take it that Kobe, KG, Wade etc weren't great players since they weren't able to do so when they had piss poor supporting casts.

We're talking point guards here. And Lin and Deron will be forever linked because the birth of Linsanity was on him.

JoeyBoy718
07-08-2012, 06:21 PM
You realize Jeremy Lin only had one good stretch in the NBA? Not saying he is or isn't gonna be a good player. Many players and teams have good stretches. Even the Bobcats can go on a winning streak. Lin just happened to go on a streak his very first chance in the NBA in the biggest market. Not saying it's luck, but he has to do it consistently to prove it wasn't a fluke. Therefore, you can't use a potentially fluke run by Jeremy Lin to prove that Deron Williams is not a winner and not a legit top tier PG.

greg_ory_2005
07-08-2012, 06:22 PM
If you actually make your players better, you have a chance. None of those players fed off of Deron. Not even one!

There's only so much you can do to make Johan Petro and Deshawn Stevenson better.

Swashcuff
07-08-2012, 06:22 PM
OP where exact does Deron rank in your opinion. I have him fighting for a spot at 4 but I have no beef with him falling as low as maybe 6 since his D was so horrendous last season. What do you say?

$GangGr33n$
07-08-2012, 06:23 PM
Deron isnt overatted i have him 3 or 4 after CP3, Rondo, and Rose

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 06:23 PM
I made this thread to get honest feed back, and it has failed to do so. Deron Williams is not top three and hasn't been so in at least three years. Fact.

b@llhog24
07-08-2012, 06:24 PM
Well you're right, but if you check the PSD NBA player rankings, Deron has probably been voted top 10 the past 2 years though. My point still stands his ranking among PGs just HAS to fall.

Well it has fallen from and argument of being "the best pg in the league" to 4th irrc. He still should have been lower but this is PSD what do you expect? :shrug:


He cannot have been top 3 this season or last when there are just so many other talented PGs in the NBA pushing their team to the next level.... while basically the Nets only made a baby improvement by trading for Williams in actual win percentage over the last year +. And the Jazz were out of the playoff picture before trading Deron.

Yea but your evaluation is too simplistic, based on his play he should be ranked below the players who outproduced him, that's a given. But when evaluating Dwill as a talent and taking into account injuries to both him and his supporting cast, adjusting to a new coach after he's been in Jerry Sloan's flex offense for his entire Nba career, and the lack of chemistry; you can see that he can't be faulted for everything.


Taking everything into perspective he's probably been more like 5-6 than top 3 the past 2 years.

I'd have him probably around 7, but that's just me.

I-4_Fan
07-08-2012, 06:24 PM
Everyone talks about how great Deron Williams is and how he's a top 3 point guard in this league, but what has he done for the nets?? All other top seven point guards in the league has had their team in the playoffs or on the brink. But the one some call the best has not helped the Nets make the playoffs, two years in a row. Great point guards make their teammates better, point blank, plain and simple. Who has Deron made better since he's been there?

Sound off!

I see what your saying. The guy is great, but I think I have him Number 6.
Now for arguments sake. I am saying a healthy D. Rose for my list.

1. Rose
2. Rondo
3. Paul
4. Westbrook
5. Parker

But if I had a choice to put one on my team I would go with Rondo of Westbrook due to health concerns of the other players.

But I put Williams at 6th after those 5.

Also I like Nash a lot too. But his age may intimidate me. I have him 7th under Williams. But some one could argue him a top 5 player and I would understand.

Jarvo
07-08-2012, 06:24 PM
Mike James > Overall.

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 06:25 PM
You realize Jeremy Lin only had one good stretch in the NBA? Not saying he is or isn't gonna be a good player. Many players and teams have good stretches. Even the Bobcats can go on a winning streak. Lin just happened to go on a streak his very first chance in the NBA in the biggest market. Not saying it's luck, but he has to do it consistently to prove it wasn't a fluke. Therefore, you can't use a potentially fluke run by Jeremy Lin to prove that Deron Williams is not a winner and not a legit top tier PG.

Don't need to, but for Deron to be the so called best point guard in the league, your numbers should not decline like his did.

JerseysFinest
07-08-2012, 06:27 PM
Nah.. Lin kept going after that.

Ok, I'm done here.

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 06:28 PM
OP where exact does Deron rank in your opinion. I have him fighting for a spot at 4 but I have no beef with him falling as low as maybe 6 since his D was so horrendous last season. What do you say?

Ok... No particular order because it's hard to rank up there but I have, Cp3, Westbrook, Nash, Rondo, and Tony Parker ahead of him.

b@llhog24
07-08-2012, 06:28 PM
I made this thread to get honest feed back, and it has failed to do so. Deron Williams is not top three and hasn't been so in at least three years. Fact.

You went about the wrong way.

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 06:29 PM
Ok, I'm done here.

Feel free to be done. But please stop calling this dude top three when he isn't even top five.

Quietmoney
07-08-2012, 06:30 PM
You went about the wrong way.

Maybe... But most threads made in this forum are so don't judge me :D

justinnum1
07-08-2012, 06:31 PM
Ok, I'm done here.

It's hard to have a discussion with homers.

Chronz
07-08-2012, 06:31 PM
When Lin led the Knicks their offense was mediocre (and I think thats being generous), it was their defense that was winning games. I think the DPOY had something to do with that. Lin was just playing at a level that Im sure Deron could have duplicated.

JerseysFinest
07-08-2012, 06:32 PM
Feel free to be done. But please stop calling this dude top three when he isn't even top five.

I didn't say he was top 3. But ok, you win.

Swashcuff
07-08-2012, 06:32 PM
Ok... No particular order because it's hard to rank up there but I have, Cp3, Westbrook, Nash, Rondo, and Tony Parker ahead of him.

Okay so lets say Brook Lopez was healthy okay Deron produced the very same way and the Nets finished with the 5th seed in the East. Would Deron then be seen as being better than Parker or Nash or even Rondo or Westbrook?

smith&wesson
07-08-2012, 06:40 PM
I guess we'll see this season now that williams has some talent to play with. it must be hard to perform as a pg when you have no one to really pass too.

Jroz
07-08-2012, 06:50 PM
Really? Who was he supposed to make better. What did Chris Paul do his last few years in new Orleans. No way is he overratted in fact he is underatted to me.

Do you not remember Chris Paul taking a crap Hornets team to the playoffs and almost single handily beating the Lakers? Lol

Losoway
07-08-2012, 06:51 PM
i mean he carried the jazz to the playoffs and made carlos boozer look like a allstar thus leading to boozer getting that big contract by the bulls

so if u put good players around him he does make them better .

teams was literally triple teaming him because they knew the nets had no other scoring option .

deron is top 5 pgs

PlezPlayDKnicks
07-08-2012, 06:56 PM
It's hard to have a discussion with homers.

Tea pot meet Kettle lol!!!

yankeefan54
07-08-2012, 06:56 PM
Do you not remember Chris Paul taking a crap Hornets team to the playoffs and almost single handily beating the Lakers? Lol

Yes i do but that was years ago. Just like deron williams led the jazz to the playoffs

effen5
07-08-2012, 06:59 PM
I made this thread to get honest feed back, and it has failed to do so. Deron Williams is not top three and hasn't been so in at least three years. Fact.

You got honest feed back and the feedback was you are wrong. Fact.

Thats like saying Dwade won 15 games in 07/08...he is severely overrated.

PlezPlayDKnicks
07-08-2012, 07:00 PM
When Lin led the Knicks their offense was mediocre (and I think thats being generous), it was their defense that was winning games. I think the DPOY had something to do with that. Lin was just playing at a level that Im sure Deron could have duplicated.

Was the offense supposed to be elite with lineups never used before. And if you watched those games the ball movement was amazing. Equal opportunity offense with Lin being the benefactor stat wise being the pg in a Dantoni read n react offense. Disagree here even if the stats don't back me up. It was the most fluid offense I've seen in awhile

JoeyBoy718
07-08-2012, 07:03 PM
I see what's going on here. You guys are mad that Lin isn't the best PG in NY anymore.

justinnum1
07-08-2012, 07:03 PM
I see what's going on here. You guys are mad that Lin isn't the best PG in NY anymore.

lol

D2theJ
07-08-2012, 07:04 PM
For the majority of the year the Nets had a lineup of...

Deron Williams
Marshon Brooks
Deshawn Stevenson
Kris Humphries
Sheldon Williams

The only person out of all those players who can score is Brooks and he hit the rookie wall during the middle of the year. Sheldon and Deshawn literally gave no offense at all.. Injuries and lack of talent killed them last year. Although I thought Deron was a bit of a baby because he got clearly frustrated during games, there was no talent to help him there was nothing he couldve done. No one was finishing around him it was awful.

NYK|NYY
07-08-2012, 07:04 PM
I see what's going on here. You guys are mad that Lin isn't the best PG in NY anymore.

When was he? Lol

justinnum1
07-08-2012, 07:07 PM
When was he? Lol

You saying douglas and bibby are better than lin?

NYK|NYY
07-08-2012, 07:08 PM
You saying douglas and bibby are better than lin?

I am saying Mike Bibby is the best pg ever. Don't make me make a thread.

Chronz
07-08-2012, 07:10 PM
Was the offense supposed to be elite with lineups never used before. And if you watched those games the ball movement was amazing. Equal opportunity offense with Lin being the benefactor stat wise being the pg in a Dantoni read n react offense. Disagree here even if the stats don't back me up. It was the most fluid offense I've seen in awhile
All Im saying is that it was the defense that was the driving force behind those wins, well that combined with an easier schedule. Deron couldve done the same if he had that kind of defensive support.

Slimsim
07-08-2012, 07:10 PM
The Knicks roster is overrated. Well except for Novak :drool:

And shump

torocan
07-08-2012, 07:18 PM
DWill used to play like a top 1-3 PG (debatable where you put him).

Last 2 seasons he's played like 5-7. Whether that's his line up, lack of effort/focus, declining skills/athleticism or just an off year, I don't think anyone can deny his decline in numbers.

He has the potential to be top 1-3 again. Whether he'll do that again who knows...

JoeyBoy718
07-08-2012, 07:32 PM
DWill used to play like a top 1-3 PG (debatable where you put him).

Last 2 seasons he's played like 5-7. Whether that's his line up, lack of effort/focus, declining skills/athleticism or just an off year, I don't think anyone can deny his decline in numbers.

He has the potential to be top 1-3 again. Whether he'll do that again who knows...

You're right. He is a 1-3 PG who has been playing like a 5-7 for the past 2 years. What people are arguing is that he isn't a 1-3 PG. There's no denying that his numbers aren't the same, but it's because of factors outside of his control. I've never seen a star player get traded halfway through a season while playing on a team who is a 4-5 seed in the West to a team with the worst record in the East. His decline was expected. We will see him play like a 1-3 PG this season.

JordansBulls
07-09-2012, 10:44 PM
Everyone talks about how great Deron Williams is and how he's a top 3 point guard in this league, but what has he done for the nets?? All other top seven point guards in the league has had their team in the playoffs or on the brink. But the one some call the best has not helped the Nets make the playoffs, two years in a row. Great point guards make their teammates better, point blank, plain and simple. Who has Deron made better since he's been there?

Sound off!

It is based on Utah not the Nets.

felixng2012
07-10-2012, 12:47 AM
Lol at people who still think D. Will is better than Paul. Its not even close. Paul is better plain and simple and he always has been.

JJ_JKidd
07-10-2012, 02:09 AM
Jezez Chris who's on the NETS anyway?

Look at at their line-up and compare it to what other PGs have before you come into a conclusion please?

Toastyy
07-10-2012, 04:04 AM
Any player on a team of scrubs and asked to do too much won't look good

NYKnicksAllDay
07-10-2012, 04:08 AM
No, Deron is not overrated. You would be all over his nuts saying how great he was if he played for the Knicks.

Whomewhome
07-10-2012, 04:11 AM
Deron is not overrated. He didn't give it his all last year because of the injuries we had that was clear. But Deron is the second best PG in the league.

I still think CP3 and Deron are 1st and 2nd followed closely by Rose. But those three clearly stand out from the rest.

flatbush knicks
07-10-2012, 04:16 AM
i don't think dwill is overrated but he hasn't proven much in the last 2 years even when he was on the jazz he can become marbury 2.0 if he doesn't get it together soon

Whomewhome
07-10-2012, 04:28 AM
i don't think dwill is overrated but he hasn't proven much in the last 2 years even when he was on the jazz he can become marbury 2.0 if he doesn't get it together soon
He is no Marbury. Trust me on that. Like us Knicks fans should be way too familiar with Marbury. Marbury was the most ignorant and selfish player or PG to ever play the game.

He had it all with KG, but wanted the limelight for himself, demanded a trade to his hometown, he killed us Nets. Traded to the Suns (Ask them how much they liked him) and then the Knicks.

Deron has been nothing of the sort. And never asked for any of this. Remember Deron was a FA so it was his choice, he never requested at trade. There are rumors that Sloan quit because of him, Do you honestly believe someone like Sloan would quit over Deron???

flatbush knicks
07-10-2012, 04:35 AM
He is no Marbury. Trust me on that. Like us Knicks fans should be way too familiar with Marbury. Marbury was the most ignorant and selfish player or PG to ever play the game.

He had it all with KG, but wanted the limelight for himself, demanded a trade to his hometown, he killed us Nets. Traded to the Suns (Ask them how much they liked him) and then the Knicks.

Deron has been nothing of the sort. And never asked for any of this. Remember Deron was a FA so it was his choice, he never requested at trade. There are rumors that Sloan quit because of him, Do you honestly believe someone like Sloan would quit over Deron???

yo marbury was that dude at first when he came to ny everybody was hyped that brooklyn boy came home and then out of nowhere he fell off it has nothing to do with being selfish marbury's game is scary similar to dwill both big strong shoot first pgs who put up numbers that don't translate to wins and don't speak to soon about dwill being unselfish he did the same thing marbury did on the twolves to the jazz even made the great jerry sloan retire cuz of his attitude kinda sounds like starbury to me:speechless:

waveycrockett
07-10-2012, 04:37 AM
i don't think dwill is overrated but he hasn't proven much in the last 2 years even when he was on the jazz he can become marbury 2.0 if he doesn't get it together soon

He's not eating vaseline on youtube and banging billy kings mistress he is no marbury.

yonkerschampX4
07-10-2012, 04:39 AM
I'm new so correct if I'm doing this wrong


CLOSE THE THREAD MODS :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

flatbush knicks
07-10-2012, 04:39 AM
i'm not saying he is but if he don't get you guys to the playoffs this year with or without
d12 then he's marbury to me

yonkerschampX4
07-10-2012, 04:40 AM
.

flatbush knicks
07-10-2012, 04:41 AM
He's not eating vaseline on youtube and banging billy kings mistress he is no marbury.

i'm sorry but thats funny as shyt
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

naps
07-10-2012, 04:46 AM
Deron is slightly overrated?

Well, I think Knicks trolls are underrated. There many trolls on these boards but you represent the best (negative way, read worst) of them.

torocan
07-10-2012, 09:50 AM
You're right. He is a 1-3 PG who has been playing like a 5-7 for the past 2 years. What people are arguing is that he isn't a 1-3 PG. There's no denying that his numbers aren't the same, but it's because of factors outside of his control. I've never seen a star player get traded halfway through a season while playing on a team who is a 4-5 seed in the West to a team with the worst record in the East. His decline was expected. We will see him play like a 1-3 PG this season.

I appreciate your faith in Williams and HOPE you're right.

2 years of sub-par performance is worrisome on any player of his caliber. It's not like the other top 5 PG's have been sitting on their laurels.

Honestly, I don't know if Deron will be a top 1-3 next year. As a basketball fan I *hope* he is... it would be a tragedy if he wasted his peak years during the last 2 years and was starting his decline.

One can only hope he can turn it back on as easily as he turned it off...

calibird707
07-10-2012, 10:11 AM
Dumb thread!!!!and im a knicks fan....i would trade lin/kidd for d-will in a new york minute...did u watch him in utah?

joeystats
07-10-2012, 10:17 AM
Derron can ball, his 2nd best player was a rookie give him a break

lkingratedr
07-10-2012, 10:41 AM
Really so who do you think was getting the jazz to the playoffs every year it wasn't Carlos booZer or okur ... Think about it deron took boozer and made him a star ... He made akl47 look like force to be reconded with cmon ... I sat anf watched as dwill single handedly decimated teams ... I seen him make open passes for easy shots to watch the nets faulter when your main options are a rookie guard a guy who just came from.the dleague after missing like 2 NBA years and a guy who marries a girl that gives more rides than six flags you gotta say good job lil buddy

IIISSKiLL
07-10-2012, 10:42 AM
Melo is over rated.. He only won one playoff game in the past two years with the DPOY and the greatest asain pg ever(lol) and with great role players like novak, and j.r. smith. see what i just did here ? knick fans are annoying as hell !! get over it already the nets are going to be a good team next year

torocan
07-10-2012, 11:09 AM
Melo is over rated.. He only won one playoff game in the past two years with the DPOY and the greatest asain pg ever(lol) and with great role players like novak, and j.r. smith. see what i just did here ? knick fans are annoying as hell !! get over it already the nets are going to be a good team next year

Except Melo is over-rated by a number of Knicks fans IMO.

Melo is a top tier scorer. That's it. It doesn't make him a top 5 player.

See what I did there?

D12 fan
07-10-2012, 11:11 AM
People will remember how good Dwill is once he has Dwight/Joe taking pressure of him.

KingPosey
07-10-2012, 11:18 AM
He had David West,Okafor, Ariza and shooters who on the Nets this year was any of those guys?

dude west was hurt his last season and Ariza couldnt shoot above 35% for a trillion dollars. Okafor?

Bklyn24
07-10-2012, 11:18 AM
deron overrated?? have you ever seen the guy play?

when kris humphries is the 2nd best player on a team do you really think its fair to put the overrated tag on deron? honestly, what is he supposed to do with that garbage squad?

thats coming from a knicks fan. if you want to see how overrated he is, watch the game aginst the knicks this past february(20th?) where he DESTROYED us.

Swashcuff
07-10-2012, 11:33 AM
I find it extremely comedic that the OP would back out of this thread after making all those claims he did earlier. As soon as he was faced with legit arguments he never replied again :laugh2:

Glen20
07-10-2012, 11:35 AM
I find it extremely comedic that the OP would back out of this thread after making all those claims he did earlier. As soon as he was faced with legit arguments he never replied again :laugh2:

if you check the knicks forum and look up the thread "Knicks fans" he blatantly states he was doing it to bait. I will never let any NYers forget just how bad their team is

SirSkyHook
07-10-2012, 11:52 AM
Like I said before KG,Kobe,Wade,Paul Pierce all missed the playoffs when they lacked talent and Lopez played 5 games...

He isnt overated

Lakers were 7th seed in a loaded/ at the time best conference West before Kobe got injured and missed 16 games that year, and finished the season fighting injuries. Lamar odom also missed 18 games and finished the season fighting injuries as well, and theyre coach quit in the middle of the season and add that Valde the starting center for them miss 70+ games.

CP3 and Wade teams missed the playoffs because of injuries as well.

KG is the only one comparable but he was fighting through the sacked west not a top heavy east like DWill is.

DWill missed 11 out of 66 games last year. I can honestly say is CP3 was their in his place that team would have made it. Avery Johnson is a hell of a coach that team could have and should have made it regardless of Lopez injury imo.

I think Williams is awesome, but have been disappointed with his play in Jersey, and now feel he may be slightly overrated.

Kashmir13579
07-10-2012, 11:53 AM
The Nets had no roster, though..

Kashmir13579
07-10-2012, 11:54 AM
if you check the knicks forum and look up the thread "Knicks fans" he blatantly states he was doing it to bait. I will never let any NYers forget just how bad their team is

And i will never let you forget just how amazing Jeremy Lin is.

Glen20
07-10-2012, 11:56 AM
And i will never let you forget just how amazing Jeremy Lin is.

LOL why would that hurt me?
it would only hurt you when he fails time and time again
idc how you rate your players; all i care about is the end result

Kashmir13579
07-10-2012, 12:43 PM
LOL why would that hurt me?
it would only hurt you when he fails time and time again
idc how you rate your players; all i care about is the end result

What gave you the idea i was trying to hurt somebody?

Quietmoney
07-10-2012, 12:51 PM
Really so who do you think was getting the jazz to the playoffs every year it wasn't Carlos booZer or okur ... Think about it deron took boozer and made him a star ... He made akl47 look like force to be reconded with cmon ... I sat anf watched as dwill single handedly decimated teams ... I seen him make open passes for easy shots to watch the nets faulter when your main options are a rookie guard a guy who just came from.the dleague after missing like 2 NBA years and a guy who marries a girl that gives more rides than six flags you gotta say good job lil buddy

Utah made the playoffs this year with the former scrub nets leading the way, and Deron missed the playoffs. Less talent from the D-will era and minus himself, Utah still made the playoffs. That sure does say a lot.

Quietmoney
07-10-2012, 12:54 PM
People will remember how good Dwill is once he has Dwight/Joe taking pressure of him.

No one will ever have to remember how good Melo is, he'll always try and bring it. When all of the players on his team went down, he could've dogged it, but he didn't. He stepped it up.

Quietmoney
07-10-2012, 12:57 PM
I find it extremely comedic that the OP would back out of this thread after making all those claims he did earlier. As soon as he was faced with legit arguments he never replied again :laugh2:

The OP is here baby! As of right now, Cp3, Nash, Rondo, Parker, and Westbrook are better point guards than him. Fact, not fiction or opinion. Deron needs a serious bounce back year before you can say that he's top 3 point guard in the league.

Quietmoney
07-10-2012, 01:02 PM
if you check the knicks forum and look up the thread "Knicks fans" he blatantly states he was doing it to bait. I will never let any NYers forget just how bad their team is

Been doing a little research huh?? :clap: you guys in here always bash Knick fans and Knick players. So it's a problem when I bring up facts that makes other people's favorite player not look as good as advertised?? I've read in here many of times how D-Will is a better player than Melo. That's garbage! Deron was a constellation prize for the Nets when he chose the Knicks over them. But let you guys tell it, D-Will is not only better than Melo but he's better than Cp3 too. And just for the record, your team is worse!

Nycbball08
07-10-2012, 01:20 PM
Maybe slightly, but I would still take him on the Knicks...chit I would trade Lin and Kidd for him... I mean who's not overated now a days..?

Swashcuff
07-10-2012, 01:28 PM
The OP is here baby! As of right now, Cp3, Nash, Rondo, Parker, and Westbrook are better point guards than him. Fact, not fiction or opinion. Deron needs a serious bounce back year before you can say that he's top 3 point guard in the league.

You said earlier the reason Deron was so sucky was because of his team record when I asked you a follow up question you refused to answer.

Stormblast84
07-10-2012, 02:02 PM
If it was a Melo bash thread, no one would be saying close it :facepalm:

Because Melo is legitimately overrated, D-Will isn't