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View Full Version : Why Ray Allen Left Boston for South Beach



Baller1
07-08-2012, 12:42 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--heat-gave-ray-allen-reason-to-again-feel-wanted.html


The issues chasing Ray Allen out of the Boston Celtics and into the arms of their most despised opponent stacked higher and higher, and suddenly everything crystallized in the hours basketball’s most persuasive recruiter, Pat Riley, captivated him. The emperor of the Miami Heat sold Allen on never hearing his name in trade talks and a run of championships awaiting him. After all these years, Allen needed to feel wanted again, needed the recruiting, and Riles had such a willing soul sitting with him in the breeze blowing over Biscayne Bay.

"He felt he was getting respect that he hadn’t gotten from [Celtics president] Danny [Ainge] and [coach] Doc [Rivers] anymore," a source close to Allen said Friday night. "…The presentation was incredible."

Respect comes in different ways, but make no mistake: The Celtics had offered two years and $12 million – respect for someone's who's 37 and coming off ankle surgery – and it didn’t matter to Allen. He hated the way Ainge dangled him in trade talks, hated that the Celtics told him he was on his way to Memphis in a deal at the March deadline only to have Rivers later tell him the trade was dead. Allen hated that Rivers didn’t give him his starting job back after he returned from a late-season ankle injury, and hated that it always felt like he was the Celtics star made to sacrifice above the rest.

Ainge and Rivers talked to Allen over and over on these issues in recent weeks, tried to smooth over the lingering bitterness, but there was something that Allen couldn’t move past, something he no longer wanted to deal with – the deterioration of his relationship with complicated point guard Rajon Rondo.

And with all of this cobbled together, with the sudden lure of sun-drenched golf courses and Riley’s pitch and a three-year, $9.7 million contract that could easily bring him two or three championships, Allen made a monumental move. He’s leaving for Miami, and the Celtics-Heat rivalry – the Ray Allen Celtics' legacy – are changed forever.

Kevin Garnett recruited Allen harder in the final weeks than Paul Pierce did, sources said, but both made it clear: Our run isn’t over, Ray. Come on back where you belong, and let’s get back to work. The Celtics were bringing back Jeff Green, had signed Jason Terry, drafted Jared Sullinger, and the franchise was selling Allen a scenario where the curtain hadn’t dropped on its championship aspirations.

This wasn’t Steve Nash leaving a losing lottery operation in Phoenix that didn’t want him back anyway. This was Ray Allen leaving the Celtics in the middle of a full reload, the bolstering of a roster to make a run at the Heat again. This was Ray Allen offered more money, not less.

And yet for those in New England daring to call it treason, well, Ray Allen will call it something else: My turn.

For all the past indignities – real or imagined – Rondo was the issue that hadn’t gone away, that would still be there come training camp. They don’t like each other, and it had become a bigger and bigger drag on Allen, sources said. Each had culpability for why things had gone awry, and yet each was better on the court because he had played with the other.

Rondo has had a polarizing impact within the Celtics' locker room, and his relationships with teammates and coaches have fluctuated over the years. Allen and Rondo never had arguments this year, never got into it. In fact, one source said: "Ray mostly ignored him." After the season, Rivers tried his best to mend the relationship between Rondo and Allen – make it manageable on some level. And yet, as one source with direct knowledge of the coach’s efforts said, the relationship was "too far gone."

Whatever the issues, everyone agreed: Rondo and Allen never brought them onto the floor. They played together, played well, but Allen had grown increasingly disillusioned about dealing with the disconnect. The friction started in the 2009-10 season, after Rondo signed his five-year, $55 million extension, sources said. It wouldn’t be long until Allen started to hear his name in trade talks, and he began to make the correlation that Rondo’s salary played a part in the Celtics looking to trim payroll – starting with Allen.

"Ray is prideful," one source said, "and he was always wondering: 'Why do I have to be that guy?' "

Those were some of the conflicts that Allen had with Rondo, but the stubbornness of the point guard worked to exacerbate everything. Rondo and Allen were non-confrontational, but much of the behind-the-back sniping to teammates and those around the team took a toll. So much of it was sandbox stuff, the kind of grating, ultimately petty issues that occur in every locker room, every workplace. Rondo didn’t chase Allen out of Boston, but their relationship did become a drain in the locker room. Their cold war was something Allen discussed with associates, something that became a concern of management and the coaching staff.

"When it comes to basketball, Rondo is the smartest player on the team – one of the smartest players in the league," one locker-room source said. "And Ray considers himself a smart guy. But at some point, it became hard for Ray to be corrected by a guy so much younger than him."

No one ever blamed Rondo, and no one blamed Allen for it. This happens in sports, happens everywhere. As one staff member said: "In a lot of ways, they’re polar opposites. Ray is a military child, has the ultimate respect for authority. He does everything hard every day. Rondo’s different. He’s a free spirit. He’s unbelievably bright. But when Ray is taking everything seriously, Rajon can be lackadaisical. Doc has done a tremendous job coaching him, and he's gotten better every year – but there’s still a big difference between them."

Some believe it was pure jealousy on Allen's part, too, that he had blame for the disconnect. Within the Big Three, they teased Allen for his political nature. Whereas Rondo, Pierce and Garnett would speak in brutal, honest terms, Allen was forever measured, even. He was a military child, a relentless worker, a player who found great comfort in the daily routine of his shooting and conditioning. Yet eventually Rondo’s greatness expanded the Big Three to the Big Four, and Allen’s next contracts with the Celtics were paid on a different scale than Rondo, Garnett and Pierce.

In so many ways, the Celtics were perfect professionally and personally for Allen. He would be remembered as a legend in Boston, a part of a renaissance time for the franchise. He broke the NBA 3-point record in the Celtics uniform, won a championship, reached Game 7 of another NBA Finals, and maybe could’ve even had his No. 20 retired in the rafters someday.

Allen kept a house in Connecticut, an hour from Boston, and his child’s medical condition had his needs met within the city limits. Someday there would be a Hall-of-Fame induction ceremony for Allen in Springfield, Mass., and his would be such a New England storybook.

And with all that there, to still walk away for the Heat for $3 million less a season – after the Heat beat Boston on the way to an NBA championship – well, it was stunning to people. Within the Celtics, they knew this was possible, but were still jarred when informed of Allen’s choice. It hit everyone. In the worst possible way, Ray Allen wanted out of here. As much as he was validating his desire to play in Miami, there was a repudiation of the Celtics, and that hadn’t happened in this era.

Allen has suggested to people that the capital he built in three years at Connecticut and five with the Celtics would transcend the cries of betrayal and boos. Allen has never been the enemy, the bad guy, and it will hurt him in New England. The Celtics weren’t breaking up the team and letting him leave.

He took less money and hopped to the defending champions. He’ll take his hits, but as one organizational source insisted: "There's no mentally tougher player in this group than Ray; an absolute laser focus. That's why he's able to hit all those shots late in games. Physically, there are tougher guys. Not mentally tougher, though."

When Allen left Miami on Friday, the Heat were unsure they had convinced him. He’s hard to read. They knew he’d fly home to New England, think it over, and it would still be so difficult for him to extract himself from the Celtics. Whatever the allure to Allen, his DNA was still made of loyalty and routine, and that still had to give Boston an edge.

Yet, it turns out Allen's trip to South Beach made him feel so wanted, so inspired, and, truth be told, so eager to stick it to the Celtics. He could've broken Boston's hearts and left for anywhere, but clearly there’s a part of Allen that wants to exact some kind of revenge on the Celtics. There was nowhere else to do that but Miami.

He will take far more grief, far less money, and that methodical, disciplined mind of Allen processes everything and still – still – he signed up with the Miami Heat. Allen had grown up on military bases around the world and has lived a most disciplined life, forever weighing the plusses and minuses – and always, always the consequences.

Allen had a chance at the cozy, New England storybook ending, punctuated with that placid, poignant Hall-of-Fame ceremony in Springfield, where a favored son of Massachusetts would let the love and cheers wash over him. Maybe Garnett would've gone out with him, and they could've gone into the Hall, into the Celtics' rafters, together.

And then, Pat Riley walked into the room, and all hell broke loose in Boston. Allen thought long and hard, and his decision was unmistakable: He was busting out of Boston on his terms, and it cut the Celtics most deeply. Complete and utter repudiation. My turn now, Ray Allen was telling the Celtics. My turn now.

JNoel
07-08-2012, 12:45 PM
He had every right to leave, I have respect for Boston's organization, but they treated him terribly, and they shouldn't be shocked or mad that he left at all

javsvt
07-08-2012, 12:50 PM
It's a business, grow up.

LakersIn5
07-08-2012, 12:50 PM
ray made the right choice

StinkEye
07-08-2012, 12:52 PM
can't be mad at the guy.

The Flash
07-08-2012, 12:57 PM
It's fine he'll be loved in Miami

D Roses Bulls
07-08-2012, 01:04 PM
I will say this, any true heat fan owes Pat Riley so much. If it wasn't for him, they would be no where. When the heat drafted wade, everyone in that organization anted hinrich and instead of listening to them, he changed his mind at the last minute which even at the time reinsdorf thought he had wade locked up. I also remembering hearing back when Elton Brand was a FA and he signed the offer sheet which was later matched by the clippers, but the thing was what made him sign that offer sheet was riley cause riley impressed him so much. Like during the meeting, I believe Elton didn't have a tie or ruined his tie and with in minutes riley had someone at the table with at least 20 different armani ties for brand to choose from. thats swag.

mvb815
07-08-2012, 01:07 PM
celtics fans wont mind when they see the jet go to work

tbone2171
07-08-2012, 01:17 PM
I will say this, any true heat fan owes Pat Riley so much. If it wasn't for him, they would be no where. When the heat drafted wade, everyone in that organization anted hinrich and instead of listening to them, he changed his mind at the last minute which even at the time reinsdorf thought he had wade locked up. I also remembering hearing back when Elton Brand was a FA and he signed the offer sheet which was later matched by the clippers, but the thing was what made him sign that offer sheet was riley cause riley impressed him so much. Like during the meeting, I believe Elton didn't have a tie or ruined his tie and with in minutes riley had someone at the table with at least 20 different armani ties for brand to choose from. thats swag.

Way to find a way to make this about the Bulls

Big Zo
07-08-2012, 01:17 PM
Now here's what really happened:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfFg9E3EnYY

justinnum1
07-08-2012, 01:20 PM
I will say this, any true heat fan owes Pat Riley so much. If it wasn't for him, they would be no where. When the heat drafted wade, everyone in that organization anted hinrich and instead of listening to them, he changed his mind at the last minute which even at the time reinsdorf thought he had wade locked up. I also remembering hearing back when Elton Brand was a FA and he signed the offer sheet which was later matched by the clippers, but the thing was what made him sign that offer sheet was riley cause riley impressed him so much. Like during the meeting, I believe Elton didn't have a tie or ruined his tie and with in minutes riley had someone at the table with at least 20 different armani ties for brand to choose from. thats swag.
lol what? riley wanted kaman and thankfully he picked wade at the last minute.

The South Florida Sun-Sentinel (Ira Winderman) reports: Pat Riley, you see, was leaning toward selecting Central Michigan center Chris Kaman with the No. 5 pick that night. “I looked at him as a little bigger Dave Cowens. And I thought he would develop into a real good interior scorer, rebounder, which he has,” Riley said in a reflective moment recently. “That particular draft, we definitely were in need of a post-up presence, of an inside presence.” While Riley was looking out for a power rotation rocked by the kidney illness of center Alonzo Mourning, his staff was looking out for its leader. The Riley cabinet, which included General Manager Randy Pfund, wanted Wade. Revisionist history offers the tale of Riley, on a treadmill in Milwaukee months earlier, being smitten by the performance of Marquette’s Wade during the NCAA Tournament. But at the 11th hour, there still was need for convincing.

Read more: http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=1343#ixzz203K5DRDj
but riley is the ****ing man in south florida. total class and swag

Losoway
07-08-2012, 01:28 PM
celtics ****ed up bad . now ray allen is gonna play like he has something to prove

naps
07-08-2012, 01:28 PM
I will say this, any true heat fan owes Pat Riley so much. If it wasn't for him, they would be no where. When the heat drafted wade, everyone in that organization anted hinrich and instead of listening to them, he changed his mind at the last minute which even at the time reinsdorf thought he had wade locked up. I also remembering hearing back when Elton Brand was a FA and he signed the offer sheet which was later matched by the clippers, but the thing was what made him sign that offer sheet was riley cause riley impressed him so much. Like during the meeting, I believe Elton didn't have a tie or ruined his tie and with in minutes riley had someone at the table with at least 20 different armani ties for brand to choose from. thats swag.

What does this or the Bulls have to do anything with Ray Allen? And you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Hinrich was in Riley's book. Riley wanted Chris Kaman but then changed his mind on Wade.

Im_in_Mia_bish
07-08-2012, 01:29 PM
Boston are fine without him, with the signing of terry.

so let's not pay attention to any psychological articles about the psyche of a free agent.

naps
07-08-2012, 01:32 PM
Celtics burnt a lot of bridges over the years. You can't expect much from a respectable star who has been on the trading block for two years now. You president, coach, and best player don't treat you properly then what choice do you really have? One of those times when money can't really buy the morale and principles. Allen has too much pride to fall for money. #Respect



Oh and on top of that, when you get locked in a room with the godfather it's pretty much over. No one can sell better than this man in this business.

JordansBulls
07-08-2012, 02:20 PM
This is what I said, I said Ray was leaving to spite the Celtics for having him in trade talks. Why should a guy stay loyal if you are dangling him in trade talks?

justjames
07-08-2012, 02:34 PM
"You never take me out anymore!"

"Well, if you dressed up and made yourself look good, I would"

Rivera
07-08-2012, 02:37 PM
see its not all rondos fault

kjoke
07-08-2012, 02:37 PM
"You never take me out anymore!"

"Well, if you dressed up and made yourself look good, I would"

:laugh2:

mynameismo
07-08-2012, 02:50 PM
Trade talks excuse are lame. Everyone gets involved in trade talks.. I'm pretty sure Ray understands that.

He left for Miami because he wants to win another ring. Period.

smith&wesson
07-08-2012, 02:53 PM
Rays gonna win ships.. thats all ray cares about i think. cane fault him for that. lots of ring chasers these days.

alleyooptocoop
07-11-2012, 09:01 PM
ray shows his true colors. he goes to division rival miami. haha

penuch
07-11-2012, 09:20 PM
Let's call it what it is. He saw it as his best chance for a ring. If he truly felt the way the article states then he would of verbally committed as soon as he was able to another team. Part of him clearly wanted to stay in Boston, but in the end he decided his best chance was with the heat. It is what it is.

To add on, if the article states that he is so mentally tough, why would trade talks bother him so much? Isn't part of being mentally tough being able to deal with it all and just keep moving on. That being said, I think he is tough and the trade talks had little affect on him. Wish him continued personal success, but hope he doesn't win a championship in the next couple years because of who he plays for.

otwisted
07-11-2012, 09:21 PM
Ray sounds like player who cant come to grips tht he is no longer starter material and is better off the bench. The trade excuse is lame, Rondo has been mentioned in trades and it hasn't affected him, The Celtics disrespecting him excuse is lame, they offereed 2 years $12 Million with a no trade clause for a 37 yr old one trick pony.

BlondeBomber41
07-11-2012, 09:22 PM
I will say this, any true heat fan owes Pat Riley so much.

Yeah, all the 7 of you true Heat fans that existed before two years ago, you owe Riley alot.

BlondeBomber41
07-11-2012, 09:23 PM
ray shows his true colors. he goes to division rival miami. haha

You should take another look at the divisions.

StarvingKnick22
07-11-2012, 09:24 PM
he's only sad he's getting old :(

Toastyy
07-11-2012, 09:27 PM
The greatest thing hes ever done

justinnum1
07-11-2012, 09:34 PM
You should take another look at the divisions.
lol

alleyooptocoop
07-11-2012, 09:55 PM
lol

haha, sorry, i meant conference

alleyooptocoop
07-11-2012, 09:58 PM
Let's call it what it is. He saw it as his best chance for a ring. If he truly felt the way the article states then he would of verbally committed as soon as he was able to another team. Part of him clearly wanted to stay in Boston, but in the end he decided his best chance was with the heat. It is what it is.

To add on, if the article states that he is so mentally tough, why would trade talks bother him so much? Isn't part of being mentally tough being able to deal with it all and just keep moving on. That being said, I think he is tough and the trade talks had little affect on him. Wish him continued personal success, but hope he doesn't win a championship in the next couple years because of who he plays for.

it just figures that he'd be the one to defect to a playoff rival team. pierce wouldn't do it, garnett might do it, and so might rondo

pierce is the coolest celtic ever and i hate the celtics.

JasonJohnHorn
07-11-2012, 10:04 PM
A lot of players have to go through what Allen had to go through. Even players as talented as Allen. I remember when Robert Horry had been traded by Houston only to have the trade recinded because of an injury to Sean Elliot. Horry was back in Houston and for two straight years played amazing ball for them, lookin' like Scottie Pippen in the playoffs.

This stuff happens. Teams have to always look at options to get better. Boston perhaps could have handled things differently, Allen did have to sacrifice a lot, but at the same time Boston kept him on a competative team and paid him well. But things don't always go as smoothly as people would like them to. I understand his leaving, but I don't look at either side as being the bad guy.

Cubby
07-11-2012, 10:17 PM
No offense, but it's a business. Ray is still one of my favorites, but dozens of players get traded every year, so he isn't the first. Good luck with the rest of your career.

THE MTL
07-11-2012, 10:23 PM
Boston honestly disrespected him. I just wish it didnt result him hopping onto the Heat though.

ryang
07-11-2012, 10:26 PM
He didnt want to get traded to utah or some **** in the middle of this next upcoming season.. Whats the problem?

penuch
07-12-2012, 01:00 AM
Boston honestly disrespected him. I just wish it didnt result him hopping onto the Heat though.

Why? By trying to trade him? It's their job as an organization to do whatever they can to try and make their team better. If they believed trying to trade him was best, then the should of. Allen shouldn't be offended. It might be different if he had played for the organization for 10+ years and then out of nowhere they try to trade him without even letting him know, then you could say that is somewhat disrespectful. That being said, it's still a business and the FOs job is to try and win, whatever that means to them.

Just as Boston fans, we can't really shouldn't feel disrespected, RA doesn't owe us anything. He helped us get our championship and now he needed to make a decision that he felt was best for him. I don't like the team he went to but I still respect his decision for what it is.

mRc08
07-12-2012, 01:16 AM
sell out.

If they wouldn't have blown a series lead they would have been in the finals. Instead, he comes up small (granted he was hurt) and opts to join the competition....how bought get the job done yourself?

This article claims how "mentally tough" ray is because of his military upbringing, yet it claims he left because his feelings got hurt (trade rumors, rondo, etc)? give me a break, he is unhappy his role on the Celtics was diminishing, and saw Miami as a better opportunity to win and get himself open looks. I would call this a selfish move. Now, I'm not criticizing the move, he is welcome to do whatever he pleases, and if I were him I might do the same. But don't write an article patronizing him when clearly it was an aging star looking for an easier way out towards the tail end of his career.

Call it what it is

mRc08
07-12-2012, 01:24 AM
"From a far, you never want to play for the other team, but at the same time, there is really no true loyalty in sports" - Steve Nash (on being traded to rival Lakers)

bbd24
07-12-2012, 01:26 AM
Boston honestly disrespected him. I just wish it didnt result him hopping onto the Heat though.

Yeah, what disrespect. Offering him 2 yrs & 12 million. Trading for him, winning a championship, & paying him 10M per along the way.

What a slap in the face.

alleyooptocoop
07-12-2012, 01:26 AM
A lot of players have to go through what Allen had to go through. Even players as talented as Allen. I remember when Robert Horry had been traded by Houston only to have the trade recinded because of an injury to Sean Elliot. Horry was back in Houston and for two straight years played amazing ball for them, lookin' like Scottie Pippen in the playoffs.

This stuff happens. Teams have to always look at options to get better. Boston perhaps could have handled things differently, Allen did have to sacrifice a lot, but at the same time Boston kept him on a competative team and paid him well. But things don't always go as smoothly as people would like them to. I understand his leaving, but I don't look at either side as being the bad guy.

i agree, but in this case it seems different. why? because miami is the team to beat. ray knows this and that boston is desperately trying to get better than them. the other reason is that miami is so despicable. even the miami players hate themselves haha

KB-Pau-DH2012
07-12-2012, 02:17 AM
sell out.

If they wouldn't have blown a series lead they would have been in the finals. Instead, he comes up small (granted he was hurt) and opts to join the competition....how bought get the job done yourself?

This article claims how "mentally tough" ray is because of his military upbringing, yet it claims he left because his feelings got hurt (trade rumors, rondo, etc)? give me a break, he is unhappy his role on the Celtics was diminishing, and saw Miami as a better opportunity to win and get himself open looks. I would call this a selfish move. Now, I'm not criticizing the move, he is welcome to do whatever he pleases, and if I were him I might do the same. But don't write an article patronizing him when clearly it was an aging star looking for an easier way out towards the tail end of his career.

Call it what it is

Very good and valid point you made there. I agree.

waveycrockett
07-12-2012, 02:20 AM
Danny Ainge is a ****** trying to trade this guy every week. Rondo is going to burn him the same way.

Cfrey
07-12-2012, 02:24 AM
It's a business.. the dude on the first page is right.. but do you think that people in some companys don't like how they are treated so they switch to another company?? maybe a rival company?? so yes its a business just like you said but business can definitely involve emotions

ryang
07-12-2012, 02:28 AM
He didnt want to get traded to utah or some **** in the middle of this next upcoming season.. Whats the problem?

yea i quoted myself.. He left because he did not want to be traded in the middle of the year.. He knows we are not going to.. Can you say the same about boston?? Nope... Stop reading articles.. Until Ray says it himself its all ******** (or speculation to the slow person)..

BURAKOBE
07-12-2012, 02:30 AM
He didnt want to get traded to utah or some **** in the middle of this next upcoming season.. Whats the problem?

They offered him a no trade clause, don't talk out of your ***.

ryang
07-12-2012, 02:33 AM
They offered him a no trade clause, don't talk out of your ***.

WITH a trade kicker meaning he would get more money if traded.. dont talk outta your ***... Oh and did D.ainge say it was only a no trade clause?? NOPE.. Try again

BURAKOBE
07-12-2012, 02:35 AM
Yeah, i talk Danny to everyday. He didn't said that. You won't give up do you.

ryang
07-12-2012, 02:36 AM
If you dont understand boston basically said you hve a no trade clause but if we trade you anyway youll get paid alot of money.. He wanted to end his career in the city of his choice..

ryang
07-12-2012, 02:42 AM
Yeah, i talk Danny to everyday. He didn't said that. You won't give up do you.

Says the guy who doesnt have a clue on why ray felt he had to leave.. you just said "he had a no trade clause dont talk out your ***".. I say says who?? And this is what you come back with??... just stop..

naps
07-12-2012, 02:47 AM
It's pretty amazing how people have no problem and don't question the loyalty when a team tries to trade a player that has helped the team win a championship but they bring in loyalty and other **** when the player decides to leave as a FA. Get a ****ing clue kids.

And it's funny how Steve Nash's transition to Lakers has been smooth and effortless by the fans and media while Ray Allen is in question even though Nash went on a bigger rival. Lakers were the biggest reason why Nash never reached the finals.

Bulls_fan90
07-12-2012, 03:21 AM
Ray Allen had every right to choose where he wanted to play. In saying that he comes across as a whiny little *****. Just move on and play basketball, no need to make excuses as to why he left, it just makes him look worse.

Boston are better off not paying old man Allen anyway, that was a ridiculous contract.

naps
07-12-2012, 04:15 AM
Ray Allen had every right to choose where he wanted to play. In saying that he comes across as a whiny little *****. Just move on and play basketball, no need to make excuses as to why he left, it just makes him look worse.

Boston are better off not paying old man Allen anyway, that was a ridiculous contract.

He didn't make any excuse. He was asked specific questions and he answered them honestly. If anyone questions Allen's honestly then that person has to be high.

Chronz
07-12-2012, 04:29 AM
Good to see him donning 34 again

alleyooptocoop
07-12-2012, 08:26 AM
do you think larry bird would have gone to the pistons right after they played them in the eastern conference finals. i think not.

it doesn't really apply to nash so intensely because the suns didn't just lose to the lakers a month ago in the western conference finals.

i mean, celtics fans must hate the heat right now and then on top of that , they get allen. but that's how i saw allen, not as a real celtic

Iron24th
07-12-2012, 10:32 AM
Allen is a douche.
I will never forget his stupid sentence at the 2008 ESPY.

GoPacers33
07-12-2012, 10:44 AM
he had every right to leave, i have respect for boston's organization, but they treated him terribly, and they shouldn't be shocked or mad that he left at all

x2

theheatles
07-12-2012, 10:44 AM
Allen is a douche.
I will never forget his stupid sentence at the 2008 ESPY.

lol "another win in LA"...camera pans to Derek Fisher and he's looking like this :mad:

Big Zo
07-12-2012, 10:49 AM
Allen is a douche.
I will never forget his stupid sentence at the 2008 ESPY.

The rapist in your sig is the real douche. :)

Heatcheck
07-12-2012, 12:52 PM
The rapist in your sig is the real douche. :)

he's not afraid to take the "big" shot, so it doesnt matter