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View Full Version : No more team allegiance anymore



number1nykfan25
07-08-2012, 12:51 AM
Maybe there hasnt been for awhile now. With Nash going to his rivals and Allen to his rivals maybe players allegiance to there teams have been little to none now a days. Dont get me wrong i love the state of the NBA but the only player who has really stuck with his team has been kobe and he even threatned to leave if they didnt bring in help. There probably others than kobe but only one that really come to mind right now. I dont blame NBa players for going where they think they can win and a nice location but just wondering peoples thoughts on this topic.

Hellcrooner
07-08-2012, 12:56 AM
1 Dirk
2 duncan, parker , manu.

3 teams have no loyalty to their players either.
How many players out there that have only played with their team? and some of the few ones are on the block like Calderon.

Avenged
07-08-2012, 12:56 AM
Duncan, Dirk, Kobe, Pierce..

These guys are still with their teams because they were put in the position to win. It's just how it works.

When things get tough, a lot of these guys want out. Duncan has never had to really experience that, Dirk either.

Kobe did which is why he wanted out but once they got him good players around him, now he's most likely a Laker for life.

Chronz
07-08-2012, 01:00 AM
Think about what your asking. Nash was dealt to Dallas by Phoenix once and Ray Allen was almost dealt to Memphis by Boston. Why should there be loyalties?

Avenged
07-08-2012, 01:02 AM
BTW didn't the Celtics put Pierce on the trading block last season? Or was it just a rumor..

Slug3
07-08-2012, 01:04 AM
Its rare now for a player to stay with a team, but it still can happen

Kobe
Pierce
Duncan
Wade

bholly
07-08-2012, 01:06 AM
The biggest problem I have with this is that it isn't some new thing. Look at Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, Earl Monroe. Players moving teams via FA or demanding trades is nothing new at all. Not everything has to be made into a storyline or a talking point about the corrosion of some sort of values.
Not to mention contract lengths have gone down (didn't Magic sign a 25 year contract?). Even if players are moving more, who's to say it has anything to do with decreasing loyalty? Maybe it's just increasing opportunity to move?

NYMetropolitans
07-08-2012, 01:09 AM
I really really hope one day that there is a better competitive balance in the NBA...and this is coming from a Knicks fan (not saying that we're good, saying that a lot of FA are interested in playing for the Knicks)...the way that happens if a. a draft pick pans out (barring a historically great team having a bad season resulting in high draft pick) and b. he re-signs with that team. It almost happened with Cleveland and LeBron, but we all know how that one turned out.

KaganRS
07-08-2012, 01:14 AM
It's extremely rare for one player to stay with one team his whole career. Kobe, Pierce , Duncan, Wade, Dirk - have been or will be discussed in trades or will ponder leaving their respective teams.

Kobe was going to sign with the Clippers - Duncan came really close to signing with Orlando - Pierce was subject to tons of trade rumours the season before they put together the big three - Wade almost joined the Bulls.

Basically Dirk is next to go. lol

RipCity32
07-08-2012, 01:20 AM
This is why Stern should have fought for the right to franchise a player when the lockout was happening.

bearadonisdna
07-08-2012, 01:21 AM
It's extremely rare for one player to stay with one team his whole career. Kobe, Pierce , Duncan, Wade, Dirk - have been or will be discussed in trades or will ponder leaving their respective teams.

Kobe was going to sign with the Clippers - Duncan came really close to signing with Orlando - Pierce was subject to tons of trade rumours the season before they put together the big three - Wade almost joined the Bulls.

Basically Dirk is next to go. lol

Wade did not almost join the Bulls.
He trashed them before free agency.

rickshaw
07-08-2012, 01:22 AM
If people are going to judge stars on their championships then how can you blame them for leaving to where there is more talent, or demanding a trade if talent isn't brought in. As long as the public judges them on team accomplishments, then they can't be blamed for joining or demanding the best teams.

3ballbomber
07-08-2012, 01:28 AM
Players now know to be competitive with Miami Heat they need at least another 2 elite players to even have a chance. And Miami are stacking their team further w/ Allen and possibly Camby and who knows how many more. This is how things are now, sad to say. Consider that Dallas one of the last team orientated wins in the NBA for years to come :/

I know cats will have every retort, justifications and excuses following my statement as expected but truth is ish is straight up wack & i hope once Lebron has had enough of teaming up with top 3 players that everybody moves on and elite stars actually lead their own teams and try and prove to one another that they are the best in the league.

Now let me here the tired kobe and jordan never won it on their own tiring bs comments

Chronz
07-08-2012, 01:30 AM
If people are going to judge stars on their championships then how can you blame them for leaving to where there is more talent, or demanding a trade if talent isn't brought in. As long as the public judges them on team accomplishments, then they can't be blamed for joining or demanding the best teams.

So true

3ballbomber
07-08-2012, 01:30 AM
It's extremely rare for one player to stay with one team his whole career. Kobe, Pierce , Duncan, Wade, Dirk - have been or will be discussed in trades or will ponder leaving their respective teams.

Kobe was going to sign with the Clippers - Duncan came really close to signing with Orlando - Pierce was subject to tons of trade rumours the season before they put together the big three - Wade almost joined the Bulls.

Basically Dirk is next to go. lol
lol you're reaching. fact is they never left, period. No matter the 'almosts' you think occured throughout their careers. And a LIE - Wade was never going to join the Bulls. Wade has stayed true to Miami and perhaps be one of the rare ones who will retire a Heat.

KaganRS
07-08-2012, 01:39 AM
Wade did not almost join the Bulls.
He trashed them before free agency.

I apologize for the incovenience good sir.

ChitownBears22
07-08-2012, 01:43 AM
I apologize for the incovenience good sir.

Don't apologize, he is lying. Wade never trashed the Bulls or their org in 2010 or since then.

jayjay33
07-08-2012, 01:48 AM
People have to understand the position players are in. All it takes is one slick GM to hoodwink a trade and the everything is thrown out of a
Wack.

How was Lebron gonna beat okc in Cleveland or the celts for that matter? What should he have done sat out and tank a season the get a top pick?

People want players to just sit around wait and hope they gets some championship help.....but those same people ridicule them the whole time they are losing for not winning the ship.

There can never be competitive balance in the nba. The natural of the game prevents it. You only need 2 or 3 guys to dominate a basketball game. The rest can be average players. You can't do that in other team sports.

Superstars that and they know the cant win 1 on 3 they need other star to figt fire with fire. There is no way around this. Maybe a "team" can sneak one in every 7 or 8 years but that is not balance. The bottom line is your not going to win a ship 3 stars to 1.

ChitownBears22
07-08-2012, 01:48 AM
Wade said the Chicago Organization is not loyal to those who helped build the franchise. He noted that Pippen and Jordan never had an association with the Bulls after they left. He then said he liked how Miami has welcomed Zo into the organization even after he retired.

Seems like an honest answer, not trashing. But whatever makes you feel better.

KaganRS
07-08-2012, 01:49 AM
lol you're reaching. fact is they never left, period. No matter the 'almosts' you think occured throughout their careers. And a LIE - Wade was never going to join the Bulls. Wade has stayed true to Miami and perhaps be one of the rare ones who will retire a Heat.

Yeah you're right - but the point i'm trying to make is that "loyalty" is hardly black and white anymore. And while the "fact is they never left" is a valid point - it still doesn't mean they remain loyal to their teams.

cutiepie80
07-08-2012, 01:51 AM
The point is......a team needs to beat the heat before every sour *** broken down nba player that never got a ring and will play for peanuts. Bottom line.

KaganRS
07-08-2012, 02:03 AM
The point is......a team needs to beat the heat before every sour *** broken down nba player that never got a ring and will play for peanuts. Bottom line.

The second point is - nobody can beat the heat.

Sssmush
07-08-2012, 02:10 AM
I don't think you can liken Nash going to LA with Ray Allen joining Miami.

Phoenix has always been kind of a little brother franchise to the Lakers, and Nash had finished his run there, and they parted on great terms. Joining the Lakers is a great thing for him.

LoL Ray Allen joining the Miami Heat, the Celtics bitter, bitter rivals, and Lebron, the anti-Celtic if there ever was one, is a whole other thing.

Ray Allen is flat out sticking it to Garnett, Rivers and Aingry. Just walking out on the Celtics 100%, and next year will be dropping 3s on them helping Miami push them down even farther.

Celtics did much better than expected this year, largely because of Ray Allen. His defection to Miami is HUGE.

smiddy012
07-08-2012, 02:51 AM
**** DH for not winning, for not being willing to make sacrifices to win.

**** the Heat for winning, for willing to sacrifice everything, including their pride, to win.

Structures
07-08-2012, 02:59 AM
I know he's not a superstar but Udonis Haslem has some team pride. Didn't he turn down big money to stay with Miami a few years back?

SportsNY
07-08-2012, 02:59 AM
There's still a few players, for example Tim Duncan and Dirk.

ThornMo
07-08-2012, 03:37 AM
I've made this point on here before and I'll say it again:

These guys are playing ball for their profession. It is their job. I have a job too and I'm good at it and my employees and peers like me. If I get a job somewhere else its because it is going to be better for me and my family.
What if your parents stayed with their first organization forever, how different would life be compared to now?
I'm tired of hearing it. Everyone is entitled to where the want to work and where they want to live.
In any profession whether you are a ball player, lawyer, salesman, doctor, etc you work your way up the ladder until you are in the place you want to be. and when that is no longer the place you go somewhere else. Everyone climbs the ladder. Tell me any of us wouldn't go to a place with better benefits, better weather, better success rate.
Let's leave loyalty out of it. If I was loyal to my favorite job, I'd still be a camp counselor.

Swashcuff
07-08-2012, 09:12 AM
I've made this point on here before and I'll say it again:

These guys are playing ball for their profession. It is their job. I have a job too and I'm good at it and my employees and peers like me. If I get a job somewhere else its because it is going to be better for me and my family.
What if your parents stayed with their first organization forever, how different would life be compared to now?
I'm tired of hearing it. Everyone is entitled to where the want to work and where they want to live.
In any profession whether you are a ball player, lawyer, salesman, doctor, etc you work your way up the ladder until you are in the place you want to be. and when that is no longer the place you go somewhere else. Everyone climbs the ladder. Tell me any of us wouldn't go to a place with better benefits, better weather, better success rate.
Let's leave loyalty out of it. If I was loyal to my favorite job, I'd still be a camp counselor.

Best post in this entire thread.

gwrighter
07-08-2012, 09:28 AM
1 Dirk
2 duncan, parker , manu.

3 teams have no loyalty to their players either.
How many players out there that have only played with their team? and some of the few ones are on the block like Calderon.

Calderon's been nothing but a class act and believe me when I say Raptor fans appreciate his loyalty.

arkanian215
07-08-2012, 09:29 AM
0a

theheatles
07-08-2012, 09:47 AM
Wade has shown infinitesimally more loyalty to the Heat than Kobe has to the Lakers. When **** got bad in LA, Kobe was crying and demanding trades to get out. When things got bad in Miami, Wade took matters into his own hands to improve Miami along with Riles

AKAYaReal
07-08-2012, 10:03 AM
I've made this point on here before and I'll say it again:

These guys are playing ball for their profession. It is their job. I have a job too and I'm good at it and my employees and peers like me. If I get a job somewhere else its because it is going to be better for me and my family.
What if your parents stayed with their first organization forever, how different would life be compared to now?
I'm tired of hearing it. Everyone is entitled to where the want to work and where they want to live.
In any profession whether you are a ball player, lawyer, salesman, doctor, etc you work your way up the ladder until you are in the place you want to be. and when that is no longer the place you go somewhere else. Everyone climbs the ladder. Tell me any of us wouldn't go to a place with better benefits, better weather, better success rate.
Let's leave loyalty out of it. If I was loyal to my favorite job, I'd still be a camp counselor.

Spot on. And unlike the regular work field, most of these players will be lucky to get a good 15yrs out of it.

We as fans will always heckle and hassle players on opposing teams because thats what we do. In the end, this is a trend that will never go away.

If a player is unhappy for what ever reason, sometimes behind the closed doors, then they should look for a better situation.

thekmp211
07-08-2012, 10:41 AM
I don't think you can liken Nash going to LA with Ray Allen joining Miami.

Phoenix has always been kind of a little brother franchise to the Lakers, and Nash had finished his run there, and they parted on great terms. Joining the Lakers is a great thing for him.

LoL Ray Allen joining the Miami Heat, the Celtics bitter, bitter rivals, and Lebron, the anti-Celtic if there ever was one, is a whole other thing.

Ray Allen is flat out sticking it to Garnett, Rivers and Aingry. Just walking out on the Celtics 100%, and next year will be dropping 3s on them helping Miami push them down even farther.

Celtics did much better than expected this year, largely because of Ray Allen. His defection to Miami is HUGE.

wow. i was going to prepare a serious response but clearly you didn't watch boston play at all this season. yikes.

beasted86
07-08-2012, 10:54 AM
This thread is lame.

Players aren't going to stay with the same team their whole career, or simply stay with the teams they are traded to. What exactly is the point of free agency if people subscribed to the idiot logic in this thread?

I don't get it... is free agency only supposed to be for players their native teams no longer want to re-sign? Please somebody answer.

Theyhateme459
07-08-2012, 11:50 AM
I've made this point on here before and I'll say it again:

These guys are playing ball for their profession. It is their job. I have a job too and I'm good at it and my employees and peers like me. If I get a job somewhere else its because it is going to be better for me and my family.
What if your parents stayed with their first organization forever, how different would life be compared to now?
I'm tired of hearing it. Everyone is entitled to where the want to work and where they want to live.
In any profession whether you are a ball player, lawyer, salesman, doctor, etc you work your way up the ladder until you are in the place you want to be. and when that is no longer the place you go somewhere else. Everyone climbs the ladder. Tell me any of us wouldn't go to a place with better benefits, better weather, better success rate.
Let's leave loyalty out of it. If I was loyal to my favorite job, I'd still be a camp counselor.

:clap:

This is 100% on point. Not to add that these players are drafted and told where they will live and play (unless you are Kobe) then during and near the end of your career no matter who you are a owner/gm will trade you across the country at any time to whatever team with no agreement from you showing no loyalty. So with all of that said when a player finally gets a chance to take control of his destiny, location, organization they work for they should take advantage of that opportunity. It's the owners who makes it complicated because they want to control the players even through free agency and get something in return if they leave....

Sssmush
07-08-2012, 05:35 PM
Wade has shown infinitesimally more loyalty to the Heat than Kobe has to the Lakers. When **** got bad in LA, Kobe was crying and demanding trades to get out. When things got bad in Miami, Wade took matters into his own hands to improve Miami along with Riles

if you'll recall, the Lakers let Kobe go into unrestricted free agency freely, and let him talk to other teams.

Then he signed with the Lakers.

LeMarcus
07-08-2012, 05:40 PM
Wade has shown infinitesimally more loyalty to the Heat than Kobe has to the Lakers. When **** got bad in LA, Kobe was crying and demanding trades to get out. When things got bad in Miami, Wade took matters into his own hands to improve Miami along with Riles

if you'll recall, the Lakers let Kobe go into unrestricted free agency freely, and let him talk to other teams.

Then he signed with the Lakers.

I think you're missing the point that Kobe still demanded a trade etc.

LA_Raiders
07-08-2012, 05:57 PM
It is all about the $$$... I can see Dirk and Duncan leaving becase of their team rebuilding...

Gritz
07-08-2012, 05:58 PM
They part of the generation that stop saying the pledge in school, that's why

LA_Raiders
07-08-2012, 05:59 PM
I think you're missing the point that Kobe still demanded a trade etc.

He was playing mind games with the FOs... There is no place like LA and the history of the team, heck he will get a statue. That dude is smart...

Sssmush
07-09-2012, 03:08 AM
I think you're missing the point that Kobe still demanded a trade etc.

No, YOU'RE missing the point.

Kobe was mad and that video of him joking about Bynum got leaked... and allegedly he was demanding a trade, although he never overtly demanded a trade through the media. Regardless Lakers were prepared to trade him.

He had a face to face meeting with Jerry Buss, and if he had said he wanted to be traded at that time, he would've been dealt.

Nevertheless, Kobe was never pressured in the last year of his contract to sign an extension. Look it up.

Lakers always said they wanted to sign Kobe, and hoped he'd be a Laker. End of story. Then Kobe became unrestricted, had meetings with Philly, Dallas, etc, totally unrestricted.

And then he re-signed with the Lakers.

Sixerlover
07-09-2012, 03:21 AM
I've made this point on here before and I'll say it again:

These guys are playing ball for their profession. It is their job. I have a job too and I'm good at it and my employees and peers like me. If I get a job somewhere else its because it is going to be better for me and my family.
What if your parents stayed with their first organization forever, how different would life be compared to now?
I'm tired of hearing it. Everyone is entitled to where the want to work and where they want to live.
In any profession whether you are a ball player, lawyer, salesman, doctor, etc you work your way up the ladder until you are in the place you want to be. and when that is no longer the place you go somewhere else. Everyone climbs the ladder. Tell me any of us wouldn't go to a place with better benefits, better weather, better success rate.
Let's leave loyalty out of it. If I was loyal to my favorite job, I'd still be a camp counselor.
thread over

EvanTurner
07-09-2012, 07:01 AM
why should they? Look what the sixers did to iverson, theu sent him packing knowing damn well he should have retired a sixer! Dont be loyal to no franchise they will **** on you once youve made them enough money

Fred
07-09-2012, 08:05 AM
To me, the bigger picture is that the NBA is a league that is almost unwatchable once "the Decision" happened...now, every decent player in the game thinks that they can just go wherever they want...the lunatics should not run the asylum...that is what is happening right now...the majority of the teams in the league will soon be playing only to make it into the playoffs while 4 or 6 teams will be the only ones with a chance to win it all...(there is an exception or two like OKC)

every time an owner caves and trades their star away, it exacerbates the problem further. The D12 saga is frightening right now...he will ONLY sign an extension with Brooklyn so don't even bother trading me anywhere else.

I am all for free agency, but the players forcing their way out of where they are now makes this game hard to watch...the only way your local team will become watchable is if they somehow, some way convince the star players to come to their city to play.

3ballbomber
07-09-2012, 09:08 AM
lmfao @ comparing our everyday jobs to an NBA player. lol what kinda messed up comparison is that? and dudes quoting it as if it's some sort of valid argument!

LeMarcus
07-09-2012, 03:18 PM
I think you're missing the point that Kobe still demanded a trade etc.

No, YOU'RE missing the point.

Kobe was mad and that video of him joking about Bynum got leaked... and allegedly he was demanding a trade, although he never overtly demanded a trade through the media. Regardless Lakers were prepared to trade him.

He had a face to face meeting with Jerry Buss, and if he had said he wanted to be traded at that time, he would've been dealt.

Nevertheless, Kobe was never pressured in the last year of his contract to sign an extension. Look it up.

Lakers always said they wanted to sign Kobe, and hoped he'd be a Laker. End of story. Then Kobe became unrestricted, had meetings with Philly, Dallas, etc, totally unrestricted.

And then he re-signed with the Lakers.

lol.
The comparison is about the way Kobe and Wade dealt with their own Front Office in correlation with loyalty.

Wade = never demanded or suggested a trade.

Kobe = video leaks of him talking about Bynum. Being open to going to other teams. Radio interview stating "he would like to get traded because there is no alternative" then backtracking

I live in la and if you're going to claim that Kobe never made any attempts to bounce, then you're in denial my man.

Btw, when he was training in the off season in UCI, my boys use to run pickup games with him and he would clown the front office and the players on that roster.

Let me summarize this for you again.
Wade: no demands or request about a trade. No issue with the front office.
Kobe: documented statements about wanting to be traded and backtracking.
Issues with the front office.

Free agent or not Kobe was stil bashing the front office publicly and his teammates.
Wade never did.

If being loyal is bashing the fO and teammates in the "team" you are in, you might have to re-evaluate the definition of loyalty. Mind games or not.

Sssmush
07-10-2012, 12:22 AM
lol.
The comparison is about the way Kobe and Wade dealt with their own Front Office in correlation with loyalty.

Wade = never demanded or suggested a trade.

Kobe = video leaks of him talking about Bynum. Being open to going to other teams. Radio interview stating "he would like to get traded because there is no alternative" then backtracking

I live in la and if you're going to claim that Kobe never made any attempts to bounce, then you're in denial my man.

Btw, when he was training in the off season in UCI, my boys use to run pickup games with him and he would clown the front office and the players on that roster.

Let me summarize this for you again.
Wade: no demands or request about a trade. No issue with the front office.
Kobe: documented statements about wanting to be traded and backtracking.
Issues with the front office.

Free agent or not Kobe was stil bashing the front office publicly and his teammates.
Wade never did.

If being loyal is bashing the fO and teammates in the "team" you are in, you might have to re-evaluate the definition of loyalty. Mind games or not.

Miami is a class franchise also.

If you'll notice, Miami also let Wade become an unrestricted free agent, the same way the Lakers allowed Kobe to become an unrestricted free agent.

It's the "if you love something set it free, if it comes back to you, it's yours" theory.

Clearly, CLEARLY, Orlando was utterly desperate to not allow Dwight Howard to become an unrestricted free agent. Orlando pulled an entire year of drama, and all kinds of ridiculous pressure and trickery to pressure Howard to extend. Similarly with Carmelo, Denver did everything in it's power to pressure Carmelo to extend BEFORE he could become an unrestricted, and then when they saw that wouldn't happen, they dumped him for whatever raggedy players they could get in a deal for him. Orlando even pressured Howard to extend for one more year, not to actually keep him, but just so they could trade him for more pieces.

Yes Kobe was mad at the LA front office, but he never publicly demanded a trade. He ultimately had a decisive meeting with Jerry Buss, and from that point forward decided to stay. However if Kobe would've told Jerry Buss straight up to trade him, or had demanded a trade in the media, he would've been traded. Just like Shaq was instantly traded.

Kobe stayed in LA of his own free will. He became an unrestricted free agent, he toured the league, he re-signed with Los Angeles. Same thing with Wade, he re-signed as an unrestricted in Miami.

THAT is team allegiance, THAT is team loyalty. Lakers got it, Miami's got it. Even the Knicks have got it.

Orlando, clearly does not have it. Dallas, clearly, does not have. Denver doesn't have it either. If you have to twist your players arm to stay, then you just don't have team allegiance, even if they end up staying.

Trust me, Orlando isn't done with this nonsense. I don't expect them to trade Dwight before the trade deadline, unless they know something we don't, like he is taking a long time to recover from back surgery or something. Orlando would still, today, offer Dwight a 20 year max deal, even after everything that's happened. That is the sign of a team with no pride or tradition.

/thread

Hawkeye15
07-10-2012, 12:33 AM
Loyalty to companies is way down with the past few generations, on both sides.

ThornMo
07-26-2012, 01:28 AM
lmfao @ comparing our everyday jobs to an NBA player. lol what kinda messed up comparison is that? and dudes quoting it as if it's some sort of valid argument!

yeah, basketball players that want to make more money or live in a city they like is nothing like a salesman that wants to make more money somewhere or live someplace nicer

Evolution23
07-26-2012, 01:49 AM
Its rare now for a player to stay with a team, but it still can happen

Kobe
Pierce
Duncan
Wade

why would you change teams when your management provides you with other all stars to win titles with?