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BradytoGronkTD
07-07-2012, 10:49 AM
Just watching tbe baseball show aand they reported that Crawford's rehab has been shut down with a groin injury.

Are you ******* kidding me?

Station 13
07-07-2012, 11:07 AM
Jesus christs what a ****ing nightmare.

Pavelb1
07-07-2012, 11:18 AM
It's a blessing guys. Now Nava can keep playing.

Shaiza
07-07-2012, 11:20 AM
I think they have to shut him down for 5 days so the rehab assignment can be reset. Hopefully it's nothing too serious.

Sweet_Caroline
07-07-2012, 11:29 AM
See you in 2016 Carl.

Nomar
07-07-2012, 02:14 PM
****ing loser.

Melo15
07-08-2012, 09:28 AM
He's so dreamy :love:

KmB728
07-08-2012, 12:32 PM
He may need Tommy John now :sigh:

Station 13
07-08-2012, 12:35 PM
He may need Tommy John now :sigh:

he is dead to me.

Nomar
07-08-2012, 12:37 PM
He should have Tommy John now, we dont need him. If hes gonna need the surgery, now is the time to do it.

-Lavigne43-
07-08-2012, 12:50 PM
It's a blessing guys. Now Nava can keep playing.

Nava has been horrible the last couple weeks: .143/.236/.245. In the last month he is .260/.341/.370. It looks like he is finally falling back to earth. Crawford returning now could be the perfect time.

Azzacadabra
07-08-2012, 01:24 PM
Seriously this guy needs to be covered in bubble wrap everytime he steps out on the street.

bagwell368
07-08-2012, 02:11 PM
I used to take - I admit some amount of sadistic pleasure in his awfulness given the crap I took for torpedoing him before, during, and since we got him. But now?

Now I just hope to wake from this nightmare and see Matt Holliday batting 4th and playing LF and the Sox in a tie w/ the Yanks for 1st well above everyone else in the AL East.

Pavelb1
07-08-2012, 04:56 PM
Nava has been horrible the last couple weeks: .143/.236/.245. In the last month he is .260/.341/.370. It looks like he is finally falling back to earth. Crawford returning now could be the perfect time.

To get that line he must have been pretty good he first two weeks of that month, also .341 OBP is about 50 points higher than anything Crawford did last year.

..im jus saying. In reality, I've seen him swing at crap he didn't used to. I suspect he's swinging for a spot or is just afflicted by the roster-wide aversion to walks.

ccspence8
07-08-2012, 07:55 PM
I used to take - I admit some amount of sadistic pleasure in his awfulness given the crap I took for torpedoing him before, during, and since we got him. But now?

Now I just hope to wake from this nightmare and see Matt Holliday batting 4th and playing LF and the Sox in a tie w/ the Yanks for 1st well above everyone else in the AL East.

I still don't understand throwing the exact same money to Lackey instead of Holliday that offseason. Never will.

bagwell368
07-08-2012, 08:49 PM
I still don't understand throwing the exact same money to Lackey instead of Holliday that offseason. Never will.

Actually it was going to cost the Sox $19-21M per to get Holliday. Theo started down Holliday and got Lackey at a cut rate (ugh) price.

I mean come on Theo the guys name was LACKy.

RedSoxtober
07-08-2012, 10:53 PM
Classic overreaction.


Crawford's rehab assignment in the minors was briefly put on hold after he suffered tightness in his groin when he hit a triple. He ran the bases Sunday afternoon and is scheduled to return to Triple A Pawtucket on Thursday. The tightness, Crawford said, is no different than that routinely experienced during spring training.Boston Globe

Pavelb1
07-08-2012, 11:18 PM
Actually it was going to cost the Sox $19-21M per to get Holliday. Theo started down Holliday and got Lackey at a cut rate (ugh) price.

I mean come on Theo the guys name was LACKy.

A weak-minded horseface who said he hated pitching at Fenway...and then everyone started defending Lackey saying "He won't have to pitch against the Sox here"

grandsalami
07-09-2012, 12:05 AM
via roto
Crawford was told by doctors in April that he would likely require the procedure to repair his damaged ulnar collateral ligament. He considered it, but ultimately decided to play this season. Crawford knows that the surgery is coming, however. "Probably at some point it's going to blow out on me," Crawford said. "It's one of those things that is what it is." If Crawford were to undergo the procedure in October, he could be ready for camp in March. Position players don't require the 12-month recovery time typically recommended for pitchers

Super.
07-09-2012, 01:01 AM
Classic overreaction.

Boston Globe

Thank jesus, I was about to break out the table flipping GIF

TragicallyHip
07-09-2012, 09:38 AM
Biggest ***** I've ever seen.

Padilla should have called Crawford out.

RedSoxtober
07-09-2012, 11:42 AM
Knowing full well that his injured elbow likely will need offseason Tommy John surgery, Carl Crawford is still pursuing a return to the Sox lineup in the near future.

"Thought about it," Crawford said about the possibility of surgery. "At this point, I can play. I think they want me out on the field. I'm just trying to do everything I can to get back on the field.

"Right now, I feel like if I can't help the team I wouldn't get out there. Helping the team right now is what's best for me."

Pitchers who undergo Tommy John typically require 12 months of recovery time. That is significantly less for positional players, around six months.

Crawford suffered a damaged ulnar collateral ligament that has kept him on the disabled list all season, but he said he is not experiencing pain when he throws. Soreness can occur when he warms up, and there's no pain when he swings the bat.

When he does return, Crawford might have some minor limitations on how far he can stretch out his arm during games.Boston Globe

RedSoxtober
07-09-2012, 11:43 AM
Biggest ***** I've ever seen.

Padilla should have called Crawford out.

The guy trying to play with a damaged UCL is a *****? Huh?

Bad contract maybe but he appears to be working hard trying to get back and contribute. Sadly, if he does, he may contribute more than he did last year.

RedSoxtober
07-09-2012, 01:00 PM
He may need Tommy John now :sigh:


He should have Tommy John now, we dont need him. If hes gonna need the surgery, now is the time to do it.

Too early to complain. The earliest reference I can find is 6/6 (and it mentions an earlier prediction) but I suggested then that we'd spend the offseason bemoaning the fact that he did not have TJ surgery.

The season is a loss. There is no playoffs to look forward to (spare me the argument, this edition of the Sox is not beating .500 teams). Have the TJ surgery now and Crawford can get back to a "normal" offseason regime in time for ST'13. Wait and he's into April/May NEXT year. What's the point of shortening two seasons if you actually think you can make an impact?

TragicallyHip
07-09-2012, 03:23 PM
The guy trying to play with a damaged UCL is a *****? Huh?

Bad contract maybe but he appears to be working hard trying to get back and contribute. Sadly, if he does, he may contribute more than he did last year.

C'mon, are you really going to bat for this pansy like he's a grinder? He said himself there's no pan when he throws or hits, only some soreness when he warms up.

Crawford stubs his toe and he's on the DL for 2 weeks.

I would LOVE to see these Red Sox playing for a guy like Cal Ripken Jr. and try to explain why they can't play because their back is sore or their elbow is sore when they're warming up, but goes away shortly thereafter.

RedSoxtober
07-09-2012, 03:41 PM
C'mon, are you really going to bat for this pansy like he's a grinder? He said himself there's no pan when he throws or hits, only some soreness when he warms up.

Crawford stubs his toe and he's on the DL for 2 weeks.

I would LOVE to see these Red Sox playing for a guy like Cal Ripken Jr. and try to explain why they can't play because their back is sore or their elbow is sore when they're warming up, but goes away shortly thereafter.

Yes. He needs surgery and yet he's working to come back rather than sit out the season. He'll regret the decision but I appreciate his desire to work back more than say Ellsbury, who constantly appears not to give a damn about anything but his next big contract. I hate Crawford's contribution LAST YEAR but don't dislike the player himself and his desire to compete.

Moreover, I find the characterization that he "stubs his toe and he's on the DL for 2 weeks" really shallow and far off base. He had necessary surgery during the offseason and was reasonably going to be back in mid-April. While rehabbing he feels pain in his elbow and finds out that he has a partially torn UCL. Which one of those is on the order of "stubbing his toe"? Which one is a lame little injury that kept him out? Which one represents a frequently injured player?

None.

He had a mild groin strain and the complete overreaction to that ("he's being shut down! the sky is falling!") is the only problem here. The "shut down" was taking a day off then getting back to running the bases and working out. By your measure Middlebrooks is also a pansy and Pedroia is made of glass.

goshhhjosh
07-09-2012, 03:48 PM
If he needs to have surgery - have it now. 2012 is pretty much a lost year for the Red Sox.

It seems as of late that every timetable that has been set has been surpassed. The player will initially miss 6 weeks and ends up missing 10. The player supposed to miss 3 weeks misses 5. What I'm trying to say is that he should get the surgery now and pray to God that he has a monster year.

When's the last time that rest/rehab/relaxation has worked for a Red Sox player? Most of the time that's the route they take only to find out that they need major surgery and are done for the year.

TragicallyHip
07-09-2012, 04:58 PM
Yes. He needs surgery and yet he's working to come back rather than sit out the season. He'll regret the decision but I appreciate his desire to work back more than say Ellsbury, who constantly appears not to give a damn about anything but his next big contract. I hate Crawford's contribution LAST YEAR but don't dislike the player himself and his desire to compete.

Moreover, I find the characterization that he "stubs his toe and he's on the DL for 2 weeks" really shallow and far off base. He had necessary surgery during the offseason and was reasonably going to be back in mid-April. While rehabbing he feels pain in his elbow and finds out that he has a partially torn UCL. Which one of those is on the order of "stubbing his toe"? Which one is a lame little injury that kept him out? Which one represents a frequently injured player?

None.

He had a mild groin strain and the complete overreaction to that ("he's being shut down! the sky is falling!") is the only problem here. The "shut down" was taking a day off then getting back to running the bases and working out. By your measure Middlebrooks is also a pansy and Pedroia is made of glass.

The dude is just getting old and starting to show it. The mild groin strain that's got him shut down is what I'm referring to when I say he stubs his toe and he's out two weeks. Granted, it's an exagerration and we're probably talking about 5 days to reset the rehab assignment clock, but my point remains, how many guys play with slight groin strains everyday.

As far as WMB, he's ready to go, it's the management that's holding him back and I don't see him stealing money on the DL for half the season.

And to make a joke saying by my measure Pedroia is made of glass is just laughable. If Crawford or any Red Sox player had half the heart Pedroia has this team wouldn't be sitting in last place, IMO.

Nomar
07-09-2012, 05:22 PM
Too early to complain. The earliest reference I can find is 6/6 (and it mentions an earlier prediction) but I suggested then that we'd spend the offseason bemoaning the fact that he did not have TJ surgery.

The season is a loss. There is no playoffs to look forward to (spare me the argument, this edition of the Sox is not beating .500 teams). Have the TJ surgery now and Crawford can get back to a "normal" offseason regime in time for ST'13. Wait and he's into April/May NEXT year. What's the point of shortening two seasons if you actually think you can make an impact?

completely agree

Nomar
07-09-2012, 08:09 PM
I dont get the thought process here.

This is the PERFECT season for him to have Tommy John surgery. Why waste a large portion of another season where he may not have such reliable replacements? I know theres a chip on your shoulder to perform at a high level and redeem yourself, but please be smart and have the surgery now CC.

grandsalami
07-09-2012, 08:23 PM
I dont get the thought process here.

This is the PERFECT season for him to have Tommy John surgery. Why waste a large portion of another season where he may not have such reliable replacements? I know theres a chip on your shoulder to perform at a high level and redeem yourself, but please be smart and have the surgery now CC.

once again


Crawford was told by doctors in April that he would likely require the procedure to repair his damaged ulnar collateral ligament. He considered it, but ultimately decided to play this season. Crawford knows that the surgery is coming, however. "Probably at some point it's going to blow out on me," Crawford said. "It's one of those things that is what it is." If Crawford were to undergo the procedure in October, he could be ready for camp in March. Position players don't require the 12-month recovery time typically recommended for pitchers

Station 13
07-09-2012, 08:24 PM
once again


Crawford was told by doctors in April that he would likely require the procedure to repair his damaged ulnar collateral ligament. He considered it, but ultimately decided to play this season. Crawford knows that the surgery is coming, however. "Probably at some point it's going to blow out on me," Crawford said. "It's one of those things that is what it is." If Crawford were to undergo the procedure in October, he could be ready for camp in March. Position players don't require the 12-month recovery time typically recommended for pitchers

Ready for camp in what capacity?

RedSoxtober
07-09-2012, 11:04 PM
once again


Crawford was told by doctors in April that he would likely require the procedure to repair his damaged ulnar collateral ligament. He considered it, but ultimately decided to play this season. Crawford knows that the surgery is coming, however. "Probably at some point it's going to blow out on me," Crawford said. "It's one of those things that is what it is." If Crawford were to undergo the procedure in October, he could be ready for camp in March. Position players don't require the 12-month recovery time typically recommended for pitchers

Position players usually require six months rather than a year. That means he's ready for baseball in April. Last time I checked, ST was over by then but W/E.

bagwell368
07-11-2012, 10:22 PM
Oh for a second I thought it said "Carl Crawford shot down"

****

TragicallyHip
07-12-2012, 01:36 PM
Oh for a second I thought it said "Carl Crawford shot down"

****

The Red Sox couldn't get that lucky. Oops!

SoxFan0407
07-13-2012, 07:48 AM
Since Crawford seems to be set to return on Monday and Pedroia is still out with his thumb issue, would this be the time to give Crawford a shot in the 2 hole at the top of the lineup? Even if its only for a couple games.

1. Ellsbury
2. Crawford
3. Ortiz
4. Ross
5. Agon
6. Middlebrooks
7. Salty
8. Ciriaco
9. Aviles

goshhhjosh
07-13-2012, 08:42 AM
Since Crawford seems to be set to return on Monday and Pedroia is still out with his thumb issue, would this be the time to give Crawford a shot in the 2 hole at the top of the lineup? Even if its only for a couple games.

1. Ellsbury
2. Crawford
3. Ortiz
4. Ross
5. Agon
6. Middlebrooks
7. Salty
8. Ciriaco
9. Aviles

Nah, I can't wait to see BV insert Lillibridge into the 2 spot.

So is everyone ready for The Perfect Storm?!

wolf82
07-13-2012, 11:19 AM
Nah, I can't wait to see BV insert Lillibridge into the 2 spot.

So is everyone ready for The Perfect Storm?!

2nd spot?? Nah thats Punto's spot. Lillibridge will be clean up

bagwell368
07-13-2012, 12:15 PM
Position players usually require six months rather than a year. That means he's ready for baseball in April. Last time I checked, ST was over by then but W/E.

In normal cases - yes.

However we are talking Carl "Celsius (F - 32 = 9/5C)" Crawford. Whatever takes a normal guy 6 months to come back from takes Carl 9 months. So he won't be ready until early July.

Nomar
07-13-2012, 12:51 PM
In normal cases - yes.

However we are talking Carl "Celsius (F - 32 = 9/5C)" Crawford. Whatever takes a normal guy 6 months to come back from takes Carl 9 months. So he won't be ready until early July.

I was about to say the same thing. IMO it makes very little sense to make him wait to get this surgery done.

Beastmode 1988
07-13-2012, 12:58 PM
DID SOMEONE JUST SAY PUNTO IN THE # 2 SPOT....PLEASE STOP WATCHING BASEBALL...NICK PUNTO IS 14th SPOT @ BEST lol...SMH

Alphamale♂
07-13-2012, 02:16 PM
This guy sure turned out good for the sox huh? LOL Theo screwed you guys! :laugh:

wolf82
07-13-2012, 02:49 PM
DID SOMEONE JUST SAY PUNTO IN THE # 2 SPOT....PLEASE STOP WATCHING BASEBALL...NICK PUNTO IS 14th SPOT @ BEST lol...SMH

It was a joke :facepalm:

AI
07-13-2012, 07:20 PM
According to GM Ben Cherington, Carl Crawford will play nine innings for Triple A Pawtucket on Friday and Saturday, take Sunday off and then play for the Red Sox on Monday.

Those plans are tentative, of course. But the idea is to have Crawford in left field against the White Sox.

Ugh.

papipapsmanny
07-13-2012, 09:40 PM
Can Ciraco Play SS? I want to keep him in the lineup, him, Crawford and Ellsbury on the bases could be awesome

YazMan
07-16-2012, 04:00 PM
Well one good thing came of the return of CC, the Lilbridge project is over! One down and a few more to go!

goshhhjosh
07-16-2012, 04:39 PM
Per RotoWorld:


Red Sox designated UTIL Brent Lillibridge for assignment.
Lillibridge managed no walks, just two hits, and struck out five times in 16 plate appearances with Boston after being acquired from the White Sox in a package for third basmean Kevin Youkilis. The 28-year-old utiltiyman could draw some interest on waivers. Jul 16 - 3:37 PM

I know Youkilis needed to be moved...but this confirms that BC essentially traded Youkilis for Zach Stewart. Score one for Ben!

1_FrozenNetsFan
07-16-2012, 06:34 PM
I just saw something interesting on ESPN...
The composite stats for the players that filled in at LF during CC's absence are
Hits 18th
HR 18th
Total bases 19th
SB 16th
Those are the rankings against the other teams at LF in the AL. Those are the composite stats for the 6 players used at LF for this season WHILE THEY WERE PLAYING LF.

Crucis
07-16-2012, 10:36 PM
I just saw something interesting on ESPN...
The composite stats for the players that filled in at LF during CC's absence are
Hits 18th
HR 18th
Total bases 19th
SB 16th
Those are the rankings against the other teams at LF in the AL. Those are the composite stats for the 6 players used at LF for this season WHILE THEY WERE PLAYING LF.

In other words, out of 30 teams, the Sox' "composite" LF-er has been a bit below average. Well, it could be worse. And I doubt that Crawford would be doing much better in the HR department regardless.

Personally, I think that Nava's done a fine job at stabilizing LF for the Sox since he was called up. But now he seems to be slumping, so it's a good time for Crawford to get back in the lineup and see if he can help the team get more production from the LF position.

Boston-Born
07-28-2012, 01:48 PM
Sean McAdam ‏@Sean_McAdam
In a bizarre development, Bobby V reveals training staff has told him Crawford can't play more than 4 days in a row. #RedSoxTalk

tweet tweet

AI
07-28-2012, 01:50 PM
Way to go Bobby, moron.

avrpatsfan
07-28-2012, 02:26 PM
Way to go Bobby, moron.
How the **** is he a moron for this?

AI
07-28-2012, 03:12 PM
How the **** is he a moron for this?

Why? Simple really, he should not reveal these type of things to the local media. Instead, just deflect the questions and keep stuff like that inside. Now Crawford needs to answer a thousand questions about his elbow, health, etc.

Fla.SticKy
07-28-2012, 03:30 PM
Hmmmm.........Hanley Ramirez was a bad idea????

GrkGawdofWalkz
07-28-2012, 03:44 PM
At this point I've given up on CC13. Just time to get him out of Boston for table scraps on the dollar which is really disappointing.

Nomar
07-28-2012, 04:31 PM
Yeah im sure MIA wouldve taken him when that showed up on the physical anyway....

SoxFan0407
07-29-2012, 07:37 PM
CC should be shut down for good to have his TJ surgery. It makes absolutely no sense to try to get him into games right now and have him miss half of next season as well while he's recovering..

Pavelb1
07-29-2012, 11:59 PM
CC should be shut down for good to have his TJ surgery. It makes absolutely no sense to try to get him into games right now and have him miss half of next season as well while he's recovering..

Shut him down just for being a ****** waste of space. Aviles could play left as well...AND WOULD ACTUALLY TRY AND STEAL IN A MUST STEAL SITUATION.

I have never hated a player more than i hate Carl Crawford.

LasahShow14
07-30-2012, 12:55 AM
Shut him down just for being a ****** waste of space. Aviles could play left as well...AND WOULD ACTUALLY TRY AND STEAL IN A MUST STEAL SITUATION.

I have never hated a player more than i hate Carl Crawford.

If we could trade Beckett+ for Andrus+ and keep either Aviles or Ciriaco, we could keep Andrus at SS and move Aviles or Ciriaco to LF and shut down CC.

RedSoxtober
07-30-2012, 08:55 AM
Carl Crawford will decide in the next 7-10 days whether or not he'll undergo Tommy John surgery.

Red Sox GM Ben Cherington said Saturday that he doesn't believe Tommy John surgery is inevitable for Crawford, but the outfielder disagrees. The Red Sox are putting Crawford on a "four-day program," in order to limit the likelihood of re-injury, and could look to get him more at-bats as their designated hitter.roto

RedSoxtober
07-30-2012, 08:56 AM
Hmmmm.........Hanley Ramirez was a bad idea????

Yes. I would have only taken him because it meant cutting losses on an even worse contract.

bagwell368
07-30-2012, 09:24 AM
As soon as Ortiz went DL why wasn't CC the priority DH? Getting taken out for D in games? WTF, didn't they change the medical staff over there?

Cut him now, so he can be all ready to show "his stuff" next year. If he's back to 2010-2011 CC next year he might be tradable (with $$ of course) in a way he isn't now.

Soxfan85
07-30-2012, 09:30 AM
Carl Crawford will decide in the next 7-10 days whether or not he'll undergo Tommy John surgery.
Red Sox GM Ben Cherington said Saturday that he doesn't believe Tommy John surgery is inevitable for Crawford, but the outfielder disagrees. The Red Sox are putting Crawford on a "four-day program," in order to limit the likelihood of re-injury, and could look to get him more at-bats as their designated hitter.
Source: Buster Olney on Twitter

Pavelb1
07-30-2012, 12:08 PM
I am halfway convinced that Carl is sandbagging. I cannot fathom why he failed to attempt to steal.

elements1985
08-02-2012, 08:27 PM
If this team is so serious about making the play-offs, Valentine should move CC to 6 or below. This is getting ridiculous.

\

AI
08-02-2012, 08:40 PM
Wrong thread.

RedSoxtober
08-03-2012, 09:40 AM
If this team is so serious about making the play-offs, Valentine should move CC to 6 or below. This is getting ridiculous.

\

Heading into last night's game Crawford and Ellsbury were both 5/18 in their previous five games. Ellsbury had two doubles in that span, Crawford a triple and two homers. If Crawford drops to 6 or below, where does Ellsbury go?

Or is this a case of one 0-for-4 being that much worse than the six others in the lineup?

Pavelb1
08-03-2012, 11:03 AM
Crawford looks like the same guy we've seen the last 18 months. Ellsbury looks like a guy still trying to shake off the cobwebs. Ells 11 Ks, 10 BBs. Crawford 13Ks 2 BBs.

Station 13
08-03-2012, 11:05 AM
If this team is so serious about making the play-offs, Valentine should move CC to 6 or below. This is getting ridiculous.

\


Hit him 9th.

RedSoxtober
08-06-2012, 09:35 AM
Crawford looks like the same guy we've seen the last 18 months. Ellsbury looks like a guy still trying to shake off the cobwebs. Ells 11 Ks, 10 BBs. Crawford 13Ks 2 BBs.

Crawford: 12/36, 2-2B, 1-3B, 3HR, and 6K since 7/27.
Ellsbury: 7/34, 3-2B, 3BB, 6K. Half his BB came in the first week before he went on the DL.

bagwell368
08-06-2012, 12:14 PM
Crawford: 12/36, 2-2B, 1-3B, 3HR, and 6K since 7/27.
Ellsbury: 7/34, 3-2B, 3BB, 6K. Half his BB came in the first week before he went on the DL.

Simple.



Trade Ellsbury while he's worth something.

Shut down CC soon so he can be ready to go (and hopefully be dealt next year) if he does well.

Get rid of Lackey and Beckett as soon as is reasonably practical.

Do not resign to Ortiz for more then 1 year.

Fire LL and BV.

Crucis
08-06-2012, 12:47 PM
Simple.

* Trade Ellsbury while he's worth something.

I think that the Sox should attempt to trade him, and do so if they can get something pretty good, like let's say an Olt from the Rangers in return.


* Shut down CC soon so he can be ready to go (and hopefully be dealt next year) if he does well.

I'd add a caveat to this logical desire. It appears that CC may be returning to the form that caused the Sox to sign him in the first place. It may be worthwhile to let him continue to play while he continues to be hot to let him regain the confidence he lost last season, as well as enhancing his trade value. If this risks having CC ready for the start of spring training, it might be worth it, if CC returned mentally rejuvenated and ready to hit the ground running.

RedSoxtober
08-06-2012, 01:03 PM
Simple.



Trade Ellsbury while he's worth something.

Shut down CC soon so he can be ready to go (and hopefully be dealt next year) if he does well.

Get rid of Lackey and Beckett as soon as is reasonably practical.

Do not resign to Ortiz for more then 1 year.

Fire LL and BV.

I'm not convinced that I really want either one of them either.

I was primarily addressing the claims of certainty that, post DL, Crawford was a border-line bottom third hitter while Ellsbury was a meat-of-the-order guy. Backing were some isolated examples of good play while others (like a strikeout in a key situation) were ignored. At the time of the statement the two had similar numbers in their recent play but Crawford slightly better overall production. The gap has tipped in favor of Crawford since. Ellsbury's play is excused as shaking off the cobwebs (even though he's been active longer) while Crawford's good play is dismissed with the wave of a hand.


I'd add a caveat to this logical desire. It appears that CC may be returning to the form that caused the Sox to sign him in the first place. It may be worthwhile to let him continue to play while he continues to be hot to let him regain the confidence he lost last season, as well as enhancing his trade value. If this risks having CC ready for the start of spring training, it might be worth it, if CC returned mentally rejuvenated and ready to hit the ground running.
FWIW, Crawford has cleared waivers. I appreciate the caveat; he has played better of late... though not $22M better.

elements1985
08-06-2012, 01:46 PM
I was primarily addressing the claims of certainty that, post DL, Crawford was a border-line bottom third hitter while Ellsbury was a meat-of-the-order guy. Backing were some isolated examples of good play while others (like a strikeout in a key situation) were ignored. At the time of the statement the two had similar numbers in their recent play but Crawford slightly better overall production. The gap has tipped in favor of Crawford since. Ellsbury's play is excused as shaking off the cobwebs (even though he's been active longer) while Crawford's good play is dismissed with the wave of a hand.

Part of the Ellsbury v. Crawford discussion is the eye test -- CC, despite his recent his success, cannot handle pitches on the outside corner (especially from LHP ... he bites EVERY TIME on the 0-2 slider away). Once opponents stop giving him those favorable piches over the middle of the plate, the OBP will hover around .333 IMO.

Ellsbury's swing is much more mechanically sound. Love the way he keeps his weight back and head on the ball.... Crawford's stance is still a disaster IMO.

JPBoston
08-06-2012, 02:14 PM
Can a mod change the title of this thread, since CC is NOT shut down? And just as importantly, has very real chance of actually being shut down in the near future.

To contribute to actual CC conversation:

I agreed with many here (like Bagwell) on his signing. I just didn't see the point of signing $20m per year for a number 2 hitter who isn't as good as our current #2 hitter. Factor in the fact that his 'plus' defense would be about null in our left field... and a whole host of other concerns, such as his age and fact that he's yet another lefty bat in our lineup.

BUT, despite a few numbskull quotes, CC seems like a hardworking, goodhearted dude that's been tough to root against. I want that guy to succeed, not just because of his contract/importance to this team. But goddamn if his (admittedly small) hot streak hasn't come at the worst possible time. The team is out of contention, and CC would be better served getting his TJ surgery NOW as apposed to later. But our sales obsessed FO won't allow it to happen unless he starts tanking.

Super.
08-06-2012, 02:22 PM
If Crawford gets Tommy John I may just lose my mind

SirHizz
08-06-2012, 03:40 PM
Simple.



Trade Ellsbury while he's worth something.

Shut down CC soon so he can be ready to go (and hopefully be dealt next year) if he does well.

Get rid of Lackey and Beckett as soon as is reasonably practical.

Do not resign to Ortiz for more then 1 year.

Fire LL and BV.


I agree with literally with each and every point on your list. But frankly, I doubt that will happen. As soon as guys like CC, Beckett and Lackey are performing, they are not going to trade them...as it would most likely still be (way) under value.

todu82
08-06-2012, 05:30 PM
Wow, another injury for Crawford. To bad because the guy is so talented. Oh well fingers crossed he is back for 2013.

Shaiza
08-06-2012, 06:10 PM
Wow, another injury for Crawford. To bad because the guy is so talented. Oh well fingers crossed he is back for 2013.

Uh...what?

JPBoston
08-06-2012, 08:00 PM
Uh...what?

Probably due to the thread's title, and the very reason why I asked a mod to change it.

Crucis
08-06-2012, 08:37 PM
FWIW, Crawford has cleared waivers. I appreciate the caveat; he has played better of late... though not $22M better.


No, of course not $22M better. ;)

Regardless the point of my caveat was to ask if it'd be worth delaying any shutdown for surgery if it appears that CC is coming out of last year's funk. If he can get himself mentally back to being a productive hitter, that would be a good thing moving forward next year, whether in terms of re-establishing his value or just rebuilding his self-confidence so thadt he can help the Sox, if he can't be traded. I'm just thinking that if CC can go into his surgery and the off-season with improved self-confidence it would be worth any delay that it might cost.

Pavelb1
08-07-2012, 01:50 AM
Smoke and mirrors. His BABIP has to be outrageous lately and he's still swinging at everything. For some reason teams don't continuously pump balls out of the zone to him.

elements1985
08-07-2012, 12:10 PM
Simple.



Trade Ellsbury while he's worth something.

Shut down CC soon so he can be ready to go (and hopefully be dealt next year) if he does well.

Get rid of Lackey and Beckett as soon as is reasonably practical.

Do not resign to Ortiz for more then 1 year.

Fire LL and BV.


I agree with this list, but I'd like to move Pedroia as well.... Losing the starting CF & 2B would make for a terrible team up the middle, but he's been an instigator this season. My respect for him as some great 'leader' is gone.

Pavelb1
08-07-2012, 01:53 PM
I agree with this list, but I'd like to move Pedroia as well.... Losing the starting CF & 2B would make for a terrible team up the middle, but he's been an instigator this season. My respect for him as some great 'leader' is gone.

lolz you guys are hilarious. This is what I've heard on this forum.

Move CC cause he sucks and his contract is huge
Move Ells cause we can't resign him
Move WMB cause he isn't that good
Get Andrus for SS
Move Pedey cause he's an instigator
Move AGon cause he's not living up to his contract
Move Salty or Shop cause they're not very good
Let Papi walk
Trade Beckett cause he's an instigator
Trade Lester cause he isn't that good anymore

Have fun beating teams with Ross, Buchholz and Aceves

elements1985
08-07-2012, 03:03 PM
lolz you guys are hilarious. This is what I've heard on this forum.

Move CC cause he sucks and his contract is huge
Move Ells cause we can't resign him
Move WMB cause he isn't that good
Get Andrus for SS
Move Pedey cause he's an instigator
Move AGon cause he's not living up to his contract
Move Salty or Shop cause they're not very good
Let Papi walk
Trade Beckett cause he's an instigator
Trade Lester cause he isn't that good anymore

Have fun beating teams with Ross, Buchholz and Aceves

This October will mark the 3rd consecutive year of missing the post-season -- with a payroll this high, something clearly isn't working Nobody is untouchable, IMO ... including Pedroia.

Plus, as Merloni said earlier: DP's remarks following Valentine's criticisms of Youkilis were perhaps the most detrimental this season.... They 'set the tone' so to speak.

1_FrozenNetsFan
08-07-2012, 05:37 PM
I guess when you're losing you feel you have to blame somebody but geeze. These guys you listed off here are guys I want to see play (or most of them) and I'd like to see them play in Boston!:facepalm:


lolz you guys are hilarious. This is what I've heard on this forum.

Move CC cause he sucks and his contract is huge
Move Ells cause we can't resign him
Move WMB cause he isn't that good
Get Andrus for SS
Move Pedey cause he's an instigator
Move AGon cause he's not living up to his contract
Move Salty or Shop cause they're not very good
Let Papi walk
Trade Beckett cause he's an instigator
Trade Lester cause he isn't that good anymore

Have fun beating teams with Ross, Buchholz and Aceves

Bo Sox Fan
08-07-2012, 08:48 PM
1.
2. L Crawford
3. R Pedroia
4. L Gonzalez
5.
6. R Middlebrooks
7.
8.
9.

That looks like a staple for the next 5 years.

Station 13
08-07-2012, 08:56 PM
1.
2. L Crawford
3. R Pedroia
4. L Gonzalez
5.
6. R Middlebrooks
7.
8.
9.

That looks like a staple for the next 5 years.

That's horrendous as a core.

Nomar
08-07-2012, 09:28 PM
That's horrendous as a core.

i wouldnt say horrendous lol

Pavelb1
08-07-2012, 09:30 PM
I guess when you're losing you feel you have to blame somebody but geeze. These guys you listed off here are guys I want to see play (or most of them) and I'd like to see them play in Boston!:facepalm:

In a perfect world where money doesn't matter, my line-up would be

Ellsbury
Crawford (If he can raise his baseball IQ from 12)
Pedey
AGon
Papi
WMB (Im willing to give him a shot)
Ross/platooned with some leftie
Shop
Aviles I guess

Ciriaco
Nava

whoever...

bagwell368
08-07-2012, 11:02 PM
Middlebrooks is not a legit 6 hole hitter. 7? Maybe.

What happened to our young catchers?

Why is Ortiz being listed in a 5 year list? At the worst he'll be here 3+ more years. Hopefully just what is left of this year and maybe one more year on top of that.

Pedey as I have long said is starting to have his brilliance dulled by constant injuries.

Who says CC will remain healthy in the next 2-3 years and not morph into a 9 slot hitter the last 2-3 years?

I like Ross but he only has about 2 years left in the gas tank.

Basically we need a CF, SS, RF, DH that rake because the rest of the line-up isn't very impressive.

We'll need our pitching staff to be 115 ERA+ or better to compete with that offense if we want to win.

Pavelb1
08-08-2012, 12:00 AM
Middlebrooks is not a legit 6 hole hitter. 7? Maybe.

What happened to our young catchers?

Why is Ortiz being listed in a 5 year list? At the worst he'll be here 3+ more years. Hopefully just what is left of this year and maybe one more year on top of that.

Pedey as I have long said is starting to have his brilliance dulled by constant injuries.

Who says CC will remain healthy in the next 2-3 years and not morph into a 9 slot hitter the last 2-3 years?

I like Ross but he only has about 2 years left in the gas tank.

Basically we need a CF, SS, RF, DH that rake because the rest of the line-up isn't very impressive.

We'll need our pitching staff to be 115 ERA+ or better to compete with that offense if we want to win.

My list is for 2013-14. I forgot about Lavarnaway.

avrpatsfan
08-08-2012, 12:40 AM
Middlebrooks isn't a legit 6 hole hitter? He has a .832 OPS and he's only 23 years old.

1_FrozenNetsFan
08-08-2012, 04:32 AM
doncha think?:eyebrow:


That's horrendous as a core.

Nomar
08-08-2012, 06:26 AM
Middlebrooks isn't a legit 6 hole hitter? He has a .832 OPS and he's only 23 years old.

That average probably wont stick. His K rate is high and his BABIP is a bit high too. But i do believe he can develop into a 6 hole hitter pretty easily. If he walks like 7 or 8 percent of the time hes there no question IMO.

Station 13
08-08-2012, 11:00 AM
That average probably wont stick. His K rate is high and his BABIP is a bit high too. But i do believe he can develop into a 6 hole hitter pretty easily. If he walks like 7 or 8 percent of the time hes there no question IMO.

Give him a break. It's his rookie season. He already outperformed so many of the overpaid sloths on this team.

avrpatsfan
08-08-2012, 04:16 PM
That average probably wont stick. His K rate is high and his BABIP is a bit high too. But i do believe he can develop into a 6 hole hitter pretty easily. If he walks like 7 or 8 percent of the time hes there no question IMO.
I mean, he's 23 years old and still has time to grow.

Right as I'm writing this he hits a bomb over the monster, tie ballgame. He's here to stay.

SirHizz
08-08-2012, 04:22 PM
Another ridiculous BOMB from WMB...add in the 2 walks. Seriously, he doesn't benefit from the monster that much as his shots would be gone in each and every park. His power is legit, let's hope he gets more patient over the years. When someone like Reddick can increase his BB% by a country mile, WMB can do it as well.

bagwell368
08-08-2012, 04:42 PM
I mean, he's 23 years old and still has time to grow.

Right as I'm writing this he hits a bomb over the monster, tie ballgame. He's here to stay.

Nobody said he couldn't play in the Majors. I dispute if he's going to stick as the #6 in a line-up that is either #1 or #2 in the Majors in runs scored.

The league hasn't made the book on him yet - and they'll likely find something to beat him up with. Meanwhile just because some hitters increase BB's and decrease K's doesn't mean every player can - otherwise they'd all have Ted Williams .482 career OBP - right?

I like the kid and his power. I don't like his glove, and I'm waiting to see about the rest of it.