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View Full Version : How can small market teams become contenders without over spending?



jayjay33
07-06-2012, 02:46 PM
Simple question, if you are a small market team, how do you get players without over spending?

It seems to me you really just have take a chance on over paying lower level guys with potential and hope they turn out to be much better than was expected or at least vital parts.

But I wanna know what you would do? Keep in mind even if u draft a guy you still have to put good players around him or he's gonna be out the door first chance he gets.

GoPacers33
07-06-2012, 02:50 PM
Drafting well

nate2usmc
07-06-2012, 02:50 PM
First of all, make sure the city you're in, loves basketball. Invest heavily in front office, coaching and scouting. Gotta build through the draft and spend shrewdly. Yes, big markets always will have an advantage in terms of marketability and location so the smaller market teams HAVE to work harder and smarter. Paying guys like Landry Fields and Darko 5 mil+ in FA is NOT it lol.

ink
07-06-2012, 02:53 PM
Drafting well

:nod:

And building patiently. Indiana just did it.

imagesrdecievin
07-06-2012, 02:53 PM
First of all, make sure the city you're in, loves basketball. Invest heavily in front office, coaching and scouting. Gotta build through the draft and spend shrewdly. Yes, big markets always will have an advantage in terms of marketability and location so the smaller market teams HAVE to work harder and smarter. Paying guys like Landry Fields and Darko 5 mil+ in FA is NOT it lol.

Exactly.

OKC and SA are definitely the model of how it's done.

I'm surprised the big market teams don't spend even more on scouting/coaching. Add their financial advantage along with top notch mgmt. and THEN the question would need to be asked "what can small market teams do to compete?"

justinnum1
07-06-2012, 02:55 PM
have an owners that puts winning above anything.

and a gm that knows what they are doing.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 02:55 PM
Drafting well

You can't build a team like that....1 it is almost impossible to draft that well. At best you can be okc....and they are about to run up against it......do they max out harden or ibaka let him leave? If they max either of them out they over paid. If they don't are still contenders? If they try to replace them can they get the quality they need at a non over paying price?

-Kobe24-TJ19-
07-06-2012, 02:56 PM
draft well and dont overpay

Lake_Show2416
07-06-2012, 02:56 PM
get lucky in the draft &/or acquire an underrated blue collar player

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 02:57 PM
Drafting well

:nod:

And building patiently. Indiana just did it.

No indiana is about to have to over pay hibbert or watch it all fall a part, puls didn't they just over pay hill?

richiesaurus310
07-06-2012, 02:58 PM
Every team who makes it past the first round of the playoffs should have their first round pick taken away and have it replaced with a "third round" pick. That would help the bottom and middle teams get better faster and would help bring down the same top teams.

torocan
07-06-2012, 02:58 PM
In the end, you can't.

All else being equal, given the same management team, they'll always get better results in the bigger city.

Big cities earn more revenue so the LT is less painful.
Big cities have more amenities, so they are more attractive in terms of lifestyle.
Big cities have more media presence, so they are more attractive in terms of player Brand.


In the end, all you can do is try to offset some of the monetary advantages through means like the LT. After that, you're stuck. You can't compete with Madison Avenue, Hollywood, or having 5M+ people in the area to buy your jerseys.

So, they'll nearly always have to overpay for talent at first, until they establish a record of being a competitive team.

Once they get those first 1 or 2 players, it gets easier as it's always easier to attract a good player when you're a competitive team.

FOBolous
07-06-2012, 02:59 PM
by doing what Oklahoma City did.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 03:00 PM
get lucky in the draft &/or acquire an underrated blue collar player

But what is that? Sit around for 5 or 10 years till maybe you get lucky? Who gonna come to the games till then, you will lose your shirt, like that.

thekmp211
07-06-2012, 03:01 PM
by doing what Oklahoma City did.

hire sam presti.

scout and draft well.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 03:04 PM
In the end, you can't.

All else being equal, given the same management team, they'll always get better results in the bigger city.

Big cities earn more revenue so the LT is less painful.
Big cities have more amenities, so they are more attractive in terms of lifestyle.
Big cities have more media presence, so they are more attractive in terms of player Brand.


In the end, all you can do is try to offset some of the monetary advantages through means like the LT. After that, you're stuck. You can't compete with Madison Avenue, Hollywood, or having 5M+ people in the area to buy your jerseys.

So, they'll nearly always have to overpay for talent at first, until they establish a record of being a competitive team.

Once they get those first 1 or 2 players, it gets easier as it's always easier to attract a good player when you're a competitive team.

Excatly.......nobody is coming if you don't make it worth their while. If you can't compete with bigger markets, what else can you do but over pay? Say pretty please.......

joeystats
07-06-2012, 03:04 PM
get guys that love to play like okc, quieter guys who dont care about the spotlight and all the money

imagesrdecievin
07-06-2012, 03:07 PM
So SA just got lucky in the draft picking Manu and Parker?

They are the best at what they do and teams should be trying to figure out why they are so much better at it then everyone else.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 03:09 PM
by doing what Oklahoma City did.

Perkins is over paid and they are going to have to max out harden, which wil be and over pay.

Not to mention how long can you sit around waiting to get lucky with a KD? The same with San antoine and TD. That's not good odds. What are u gonna stay a 15win team till you get lucky?

justinnum1
07-06-2012, 03:10 PM
hope you on sterns good side;)

but seriously, whats really hard is for good teams to sustain it for a long time and not have poor deals but they come up anyways.

model franchise over the last decade would be the spurs. but it takes a top 3 coach and great management for that to happen.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 03:11 PM
So SA just got lucky in the draft picking Manu and Parker?

They are the best at what they do and teams should be trying to figure out why they are so much better at it then everyone else.

No they got lucky with Tim duncan.

torocan
07-06-2012, 03:12 PM
So SA just got lucky in the draft picking Manu and Parker?

They are the best at what they do and teams should be trying to figure out why they are so much better at it then everyone else.

Yes and No. They spent money and built a top flight organization. They got some luck with their drafts and trades as well as made good choices.

If you spend the money to get the best management, it translates into the recruiting and scouting. However, you put SA or OKC's team in a big city, and they would kick butt eventually.

Great management is great management no matter what city you put them in. That SA and OKC is doing so well is more a testament to the Owner building the right FO than the approach.

SA and OKC's FO don't get enough credit. Without great scouts and talent evaluation, without great hiring and management hires, SA and OKC would just be another Charlotte.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 03:14 PM
by doing what Oklahoma City did.

hire sam presti.

scout and draft well.

And they still over paid perk to become a contender and are about to have to do it again......

Dade County
07-06-2012, 03:15 PM
Exactly.

OKC and SA are definitely the model of how it's done.

I'm surprised the big market teams don't spend even more on scouting/coaching. Add their financial advantage along with top notch mgmt. and THEN the question would need to be asked "what can small market teams do to compete?"

You forgot to add another small market team ... Miami


If i was a small market Owner/Gm

I might look to build a unique kind of team, so that would set my fan base apart from the rest. Toronto failed in doing this, but I would go more European style...

Try to collect as much European/Overseas stars as possible on the free market and bring them over to my team... The team would have their on identity different from any other team in the league.

And if i can just land one Super Star in the draft, and with the right fundamental coaching, we could out play teams that are more athletic then we are, by playing smart basketball.

1 Super Star and a bush of talented Europeans/Overseas players.

I might not win it all because of a big market team out spending me for talent, but I feel that this team can draw a fan base and make it to their conference finals a couple of times.

Kevj77
07-06-2012, 03:16 PM
I don't understand why they are overpaying though. They are basicly bidding against eachother for free agents. Most major free agents aren't signing with big markets at least this offseason. Most of the big/desireable markets are capped out or will be after they re-sign their own players except for Dallas and they aren't overpaying for an average player they wanted a star like Dwill.

A lot of times they are making offers on RFAs and have to overbid in the hope that the team doesn't match.

Hawkeye15
07-06-2012, 03:18 PM
Drafting, player development, and winning small trades.

Blitzbolt
07-06-2012, 03:18 PM
I think the Grizz/Pacers are doing alot of things people are saying here but that's not good enough.It only takes 1 or 2 super stars to beat small market teams.

Hawkeye15
07-06-2012, 03:18 PM
I don't understand why they are overpaying though. They are basicly bidding against eachother for free agents. Most major free agents aren't signing with big markets at least this offseason. Most of the big/desireable markets are capped out or will be after they re-sign their own players except for Dallas and they aren't overpaying for an average player they wanted a star like Dwill.

A lot of times they are making offers on RFAs and have to overbid in the hope that the team doesn't match.

there is massive overpay because of the time allowed to negotiate and sign. Teams don't have long, so they need to come with their best stuff asap if they really want a guy.

Corey
07-06-2012, 03:19 PM
Draft well.

Hawkeye15
07-06-2012, 03:21 PM
I think the Grizz/Pacers are doing alot of things people are saying here but that's not good enough.It only takes 1 or 2 super stars to beat small market teams.

The Spurs from 98-07', and the current Thunder say you are wrong.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 03:21 PM
So SA just got lucky in the draft picking Manu and Parker?

They are the best at what they do and teams should be trying to figure out why they are so much better at it then everyone else.

Yes and No. They spent money and built a top flight organization. They got some luck with their drafts and trades as well as made good choices.

If you spend the money to get the best management, it translates into the recruiting and scouting. However, you put SA or OKC's team in a big city, and they would kick butt eventually.

Great management is great management no matter what city you put them in. That SA and OKC is doing so well is more a testament to the Owner building the right FO than the approach.

SA and OKC's FO don't get enough credit. Without great scouts and talent evaluation, without great hiring and management hires, SA and OKC would just be another Charlotte.

Yes but wit out the luck of Landing KD or TD they would have stil been just like everybody else. An finding player like Parker and manu is hard enough. But finding players Lilke that who aren't going to all want max money? Let's be real...miracle. You cant hope for that cause it ain't gonna happen.

Blitzbolt
07-06-2012, 03:23 PM
The Spurs from 98-07', and the current Thunder say you are wrong.

Tim Duncan is a SUPER STAR and so is Kevin Durant.There is no way a small market team wins without one.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 03:23 PM
Exactly.

OKC and SA are definitely the model of how it's done.

I'm surprised the big market teams don't spend even more on scouting/coaching. Add their financial advantage along with top notch mgmt. and THEN the question would need to be asked "what can small market teams do to compete?"

You forgot to add another small market team ... Miami


If i was a small market Owner/Gm

I might look to build a unique kind of team, so that would set my fan base apart from the rest. Toronto failed in doing this, but I would go more European style...

Try to collect as much European/Overseas stars as possible on the free market and bring them over to my team... The team would have their on identity different from any other team in the league.

And if i can just land one Super Star in the draft, and with the right fundamental coaching, we could out play teams that are more athletic then we are, by playing smart basketball.

1 Super Star and a bush of talented Europeans/Overseas players.

I might not win it all because of a big market team out spending me for talent, but I feel that this team can draw a fan base and make it to their conference finals a couple of times.

Idk about that but.....you really think you can build a conference final kind of team with a bunch of overseas players?

Showtime Steve
07-06-2012, 03:25 PM
You have to have a gm that knows how work with a budget. Scouting staff that knows how to find great role players. Not necessarily the best talent. Great coach. And a supporting city.

torocan
07-06-2012, 03:25 PM
I don't understand why they are overpaying though. They are basicly bidding against eachother for free agents. Most major free agents aren't signing with big markets at least this offseason. Most of the big/desireable markets are capped out or will be after they re-sign their own players except for Dallas and they aren't overpaying for an average player they wanted a star like Dwill.

A lot of times they are making offers on RFAs and have to overbid in the hope that the team doesn't match.

They generally don't have a choice.

If you're a small market and struggling franchise, you're in a catch 22.

Good players don't want to come because you're not competitive.
You're not competitive because you don't have good players.

With a cap on salaries, sure, you can put a MAX offer on the table, but so can everyone else. Given a choice, the Star is nearly always going to go the the bigger market.

Their only choice is to overpay for 2nd tier players and get enough of a team that a Star looks at it and says, "These guys can compete... that's worth something."

OR tank for years and hope your draft picks work out.

Compare this to a big market that can just put a Max on the table and they're always in the running for the talent.

Small teams can overcome their disadvantages, but it's still a disadvantage.

5ass
07-06-2012, 03:26 PM
with difficulty.

imagesrdecievin
07-06-2012, 03:28 PM
Yes but wit out the luck of Landing KD or TD they would have stil been just like everybody else. An finding player like Parker and manu is hard enough. But finding players Lilke that who aren't going to all want max money? Let's be real...miracle. You cant hope for that cause it ain't gonna happen.

It seems like your implying that a team needs to land a top 2 pick in order to get a superstar?

There have been enough superstars that were drafted outside of the top 2. It takes a degree of luck - but I dont thyink a team HAS to win the lottery to draft a superstar.

Toastyy
07-06-2012, 03:28 PM
Okc is doing just fine

Hawkeye15
07-06-2012, 03:30 PM
Tim Duncan is a SUPER STAR and so is Kevin Durant.There is no way a small market team wins without one.

oh I agree with that dude. I thought you were simply saying the large markets will always overwhelm small market teams. But where do small market teams get a superstar? It MUST come from the draft, unlike large markets, who gets superstars forcing trades or signing outright with them.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 03:30 PM
Drafting, player development, and winning small trades.

That's good in theroy but that never happenes. Only SA has that worked for and that's only because of a miracle of having two stars that didn't insist on max money. That will never happen.
Okc is going to have to over pay or fall off.

Blitzbolt
07-06-2012, 03:31 PM
Okc is doing just fine

And so did the cavs when they had Lebron they have a top 5 superstar no all the small market teams have one.

That makes it pretty easy.

Hawkeye15
07-06-2012, 03:33 PM
That's good in theroy but that never happenes. Only SA has that worked for and that's only because of a miracle of having two stars that didn't insist on max money. That will never happen.
Okc is going to have to over pay or fall off.

It's the only theory that is proven, unless we still look at Miami as small market.

And don't large markets overpay the crap out of their players, hence why they are always paying luxury tax? Whats the difference?

C_Mund
07-06-2012, 03:34 PM
Exactly.

OKC and SA are definitely the model of how it's done.

I'm surprised the big market teams don't spend even more on scouting/coaching. Add their financial advantage along with top notch mgmt. and THEN the question would need to be asked "what can small market teams do to compete?"

OKC and San An are two of the luckiest teams that have ever drafted an athlete. Going from contender to bottom-feeder due to an injury and scooping up an all-time great isn't "good drafting," like it was the GM's fault that they sucked and got the first overall pick in the Duncan Sweepstakes.

OKC got Durant, Westy and Harden in three straight drafts. I'm not saying that there isn't a TON of work that went into scouting and I don't want to make it sound like they had it fall in their lap, but there's not very often that three players like that are available in three straight drafts, and normally when a team gets a Durant-type player they don't finish in the bottom 5 for another couple seasons.

I think Ink mentioned Indiana... and I'll throw Philly in there if they improve their roster after dropping Brand. These are teams that developed good talent and were patient with players that weren't destined for greatness but meshed together under a good coaching staff. Again, no sour grapes, but I think Indiana and Philly are more realistic for most teams that don't get a generational talent.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 03:35 PM
Yes but wit out the luck of Landing KD or TD they would have stil been just like everybody else. An finding player like Parker and manu is hard enough. But finding players Lilke that who aren't going to all want max money? Let's be real...miracle. You cant hope for that cause it ain't gonna happen.

It seems like your implying that a team needs to land a top 2 pick in order to get a superstar?

There have been enough superstars that were drafted outside of the top 2. It takes a degree of luck - but I dont thyink a team HAS to win the lottery to draft a superstar.

Ok but how many ate still wit the small market team that drafted them? An better yet how many of those teams were forced to over pay to try to put talent around them..... Utah/ dwill.... Cleveland/ Lebron.....no/ cris Paul all of them took on bad contract ie over paid
Try try to get talent, because they had no choice.

Dade County
07-06-2012, 03:37 PM
Idk about that but.....you really think you can build a conference final kind of team with a bunch of overseas players?

1 Super star and a bunch of very talented Overseas players YES.... I will loss more times then not in the semi finals but I will make it to the Conference finals a couple of times...

Thats all my fan base could really ask for.

I gave them 1 Super star and a unique play style that you really only see overseas...

Teams during the season really cant prepare for are western/euro style of play, but in the playoffs when other teams have more time to look at film and adjust to us... It will all come down to are 1 Super star and how he handles the situation.

I think I can find players like Parker/Manu...etc

I would try to buy these players out from their overseas contracts ( If I am legally allowed to do this ) and sign them to my team.

JWO35
07-06-2012, 03:38 PM
Draft & Trade...not to be a homer, but it worked for the Pistons in the early 00s

Hawkeye15
07-06-2012, 03:38 PM
Ok but how many ate still wit the small market team that drafted them? An better yet how many of those teams were forced to over pay to try to put talent around them..... Utah/ dwill.... Cleveland/ Lebron.....no/ cris Paul all of them took on bad contract ie over paid
Try try to get talent, because they had no choice.

Small market teams that get a superstar fail when they make mistakes in the draft and trades, something large markets can recover from because their attendance will keep up regardless of how poor their team is, meaning more money is coming in.

Long story short, you need to make minimal mistakes running a small market team.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 03:42 PM
That's good in theroy but that never happenes. Only SA has that worked for and that's only because of a miracle of having two stars that didn't insist on max money. That will never happen.
Okc is going to have to over pay or fall off.

It's the only theory that is proven, unless we still look at Miami as small market.

And don't large markets overpay the crap out of their players, hence why they are always paying luxury tax? Whats the difference?

No i dont look at miami as a small market team and i dont think most people do.

That's a good question! Do large markets over pay or do just pay a lot of guys what they are worth...Take la for example at one time they were paying odom, Kobe,pau, and Bynum...all alpt of money. but I didn't think any of them were over paid.

Gritz
07-06-2012, 03:42 PM
By changing the salary cap to be more like the NFL's

Hawkeye15
07-06-2012, 03:44 PM
No i dont look at miami as a small market team and i dont think most people do.

That's a good question! Do large markets over pay or do just pay a lot of guys what they are worth...Take la for example at one time they were paying odom, Kobe,pau, and Bynum...all alpt of money. but I didn't think any of them were over paid.

at some point anyone becomes overpaid. When you are winning championships, who cares. But on the other side of the pond, when the Knicks payroll was $75 million and they were losing, everyone was overpaid.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 03:49 PM
Ok but how many ate still wit the small market team that drafted them? An better yet how many of those teams were forced to over pay to try to put talent around them..... Utah/ dwill.... Cleveland/ Lebron.....no/ cris Paul all of them took on bad contract ie over paid
Try try to get talent, because they had no choice.

Small market teams that get a superstar fail when they make mistakes in the draft and trades, something large markets can recover from because their attendance will keep up regardless of how poor their team is, meaning more money is coming in.

Long story short, you need to make minimal mistakes running a small market team.

I agree but minimal mistakes mean...long slow process. And In a small market that can be death sentence. Fans are impatient and so are superstars...... Trying to build a championship team with out over paying Will take to long and you will lose the players that you have.

alexander_37
07-06-2012, 03:51 PM
Memphis
Indianna
OKC

all did it.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 03:52 PM
No i dont look at miami as a small market team and i dont think most people do.

That's a good question! Do large markets over pay or do just pay a lot of guys what they are worth...Take la for example at one time they were paying odom, Kobe,pau, and Bynum...all alpt of money. but I didn't think any of them were over paid.

at some point anyone becomes overpaid. When you are winning championships, who cares. But on the other side of the pond, when the Knicks payroll was $75 million and they were losing, everyone was overpaid.

I think melo, Tyson, and amare were fair deals "at the time". I would not say they got over paid.

An your right big markets can over pay to, but they don't "have to" is the point, where small markets do.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 03:55 PM
Memphis
Indianna
OKC

all did it.

What? No they didn't.... They are all over paying, with more coming.

GMEN4EVER
07-06-2012, 04:02 PM
Follow the model of the thunder and spurs. Draft well, be proactive in scouting overseas. And develop your own players, and resign your own players when their contracts are up. Don't go out in free agency. If you're going to acquire players, it's best to trade for them. Only way you can enter free agency and get a good player is if he's from your area, he was a bad fit on the team he used to be on but fits a role perfectly on your team, or was injured and is now more affordable.

JLynn943
07-06-2012, 04:04 PM
Draft really well (which of course involves luck in where you are drafting and who comes out that year), and then you have to hope that you win enough fast enough to make other players want to play for you and not have the good players you drafted leave.

Of course, once someone good that you drafted becomes a free agent, they're likely getting overpaid by someone. You just have to hope they'll take a hometown discount. Otherwise, you need to be a trade genius and get great value before they walk for nothing or you overpay.

Blitzbolt
07-06-2012, 04:05 PM
Memphis
Indianna
OKC

all did it.
Did what overpaid for so so players?Rudy Gay Danny granger James harden this guys are great players but we or they have to overpaid them to stay.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 04:12 PM
Memphis
Indianna
OKC

all did it.
Did what overpaid for so so players?Rudy Gay Danny granger James harden, Perkins this guys are great players but we or they have to overpaid them to stay.

Excatly......they all have to over pay!

THE MTL
07-06-2012, 04:21 PM
Its the small market teams that overspend are the ones that go no where. San antonio and okc dont overspend. Utah (a coupl yrs back) didnt overspend. There are plenty of teams that dnt overspend and still competes.

LA_Raiders
07-06-2012, 04:25 PM
They Cant. That will only last a couble of years; then their players will demand big $ and trade to a big market city...

Great Job so far Stern....

thekmp211
07-06-2012, 04:25 PM
And they still over paid perk to become a contender and are about to have to do it again......

lmao. perk made them a contender, that is a good one. does that one slightly over the top contract discount anything i said in the post?

nate2usmc
07-06-2012, 04:35 PM
lmao. perk made them a contender, that is a good one. does that one slightly over the top contract discount anything i said in the post?

Haha agreed. Hence there is an AMNESTY clause that SMART teams would use to their benefit at the RIGHT time.

Sixerlover
07-06-2012, 04:36 PM
By changing the salary cap to be more like the NFL's

It wouldn't matter. The NBA is a totally different monster than the NFL or the MLB simply because of the effect that each individual athlete has on the game. In the NBA if you have one top tier player on the court your at a huge advantage as opposed to those sports where a team concept comes into play a lot more. You can walk Albert Pujols 4 times if you want, but you can't avoid Lebron.

So because of that changing the cap won't really do much. Guys will still get overpaid by both large and small markets, just to a different degree. Small market teams have the blueprint for success, and it starts at the top. If ownership isn't very good and your front office isn't spectacular, then you won't win, and that's simple. I think once the owners are committed to winning basketball games, and they bring in a front office that's knowledgeable as well as creative they'll win games. Sure it's a matter of on the court talent, but small market teams with great ownership in any sport always remain competitive. The players come and go, the foundation is what's important.

torocan
07-06-2012, 04:37 PM
Its the small market teams that overspend are the ones that go no where. San antonio and okc dont overspend. Utah (a coupl yrs back) didnt overspend. There are plenty of teams that dnt overspend and still competes.

Since when did 3/20 small market teams become "plenty"?

Very few teams overcome the small market issue, because it IS that hard an obstacle.

Puck017
07-06-2012, 04:43 PM
Step 1: Draft a player that becomes a top 10 talent in the NBA

Step 2: Make the team a contender with big contracts expiring 1-2 years before the player from step 1 becomes an unrestricted free agent
- Don't be Cleveland when Lebron left

Step 3: Acquire 1 superstar that wants to play with said player 1-2 years before he becomes free agent. The front office need to be bold during this juncture, but not overspend on free agents. The most likely way of doing this is to acquire either a disgruntled star or a star from another small market team in the final year of his contract. By far the most difficult step and in the end is still only a gamble. Still seems like a small markets teams best shot of succeeded due to the current state of the NBA in my opinion.
- Orlando either settled for what they had or what was easy to obtain and were never able to get another star on the team

Prerequisites:
- stellar scouting department
- don't overpay free agents

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 04:45 PM
Its the small market teams that overspend are the ones that go no where. San antonio and okc dont overspend. Utah (a coupl yrs back) didnt overspend. There are plenty of teams that dnt overspend and still competes.

Okc has and will over spend. Utah did over spend.... An San Antonio got all time lucky wit Parker and Manu not wanting max money. That what your plan is try to find players like that in later rounds AND hope they don't want max money? Get serious......

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 04:48 PM
They Cant. That will only last a couble of years; then their players will demand big $ and trade to a big market city...

Great Job so far Stern....

Correct....only in very rare occasion, can a team get even low level stars to take less to stay in a smaller market. Parker and Manu is not a repeatable plan...... All the stars had to align on that one.

dtmagnet
07-06-2012, 04:53 PM
An OKC type of drafting streak happens once in a blue moon, you should not try to emulate what they did.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 04:54 PM
And they still over paid perk to become a contender and are about to have to do it again......

lmao. perk made them a contender, that is a good one. does that one slightly over the top contract discount anything i said in the post?

Lmao, there words not mine....but that makes it even worse of an over pay

Well they are over paying and will have to again....with harden or ibaka. So drafting well and hiring the GM still doesn't stop them from having to over spend.

Vampirate
07-06-2012, 04:58 PM
Well let's have a Look at all the large market teams ans see where they stand.

LA Lakers, yup, moving on.

LA Clippers, it's only recently they have been anything of significance in their horrible existance.

NY Knicks, not as bad as the Clippers, but for the FA that have went there, they have not produce much results at all. Not the best bang for their buck in the last 15 years either.

Dallas, you could say so I guess, but it looks like the run is over right now.

Toronto, the one large market that hasn't gone anywhere and has the reputation of not being able to draw in free agents.

Philidelphia, all they seem to be is mediocre

Brooklin Nets, it hinges if they land Dwight, but they are pretty much capped out and have no history to draw upon in Brooklin, the NJ nets can't really say they have much to brag about. The D Will trade was a gamble and they seem to have won it.

Washington, what have they done?

Boston, they did the big 3 trade years ago and it paid off, they got great history but before those big 3 came, they we're pathetic, with the big 3 assuming all of them sign, they don't have much time left.

Chicago, before rose they were pretty much like Philidelphia, constantly either sucking or just mediocre.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 05:02 PM
An OKC type of drafting streak happens once in a blue moon, you should not try to emulate what they did.

Right! And now they are gonna have to give out max contracts to non max players if they wanna stay contenders. Unless harden take less but you can't count on that as a game plan. Find 3 or 4 great players in the draft AND hope they don't all want more than they are worth. Lol

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 07:41 PM
Well let's have a Look at all the large market teams ans see where they stand.

LA Lakers, yup, moving on.

LA Clippers, it's only recently they have been anything of significance in their horrible existance.

NY Knicks, not as bad as the Clippers, but for the FA that have went there, they have not produce much results at all. Not the best bang for their buck in the last 15 years either.

Dallas, you could say so I guess, but it looks like the run is over right now.

Toronto, the one large market that hasn't gone anywhere and has the reputation of not being able to draw in free agents.

Philidelphia, all they seem to be is mediocre

Brooklin Nets, it hinges if they land Dwight, but they are pretty much capped out and have no history to draw upon in Brooklin, the NJ nets can't really say they have much to brag about. The D Will trade was a gamble and they seem to have won it.

Washington, what have they done?

Boston, they did the big 3 trade years ago and it paid off, they got great history but before those big 3 came, they we're pathetic, with the big 3 assuming all of them sign, they don't have much time left.

Chicago, before rose they were pretty much like Philidelphia, constantly either sucking or just mediocre.

That still doesn't help smaller teams not over pay. The question is how can they contend with out over paying

Oh and to me big markets means the places people wanna play not just the biggest cites.

nyKnicks126
07-06-2012, 07:42 PM
Every team is over spending..

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 07:46 PM
Every team is over spending..

Yeah but smaller markets over pay for guys to try to get them to come. They pay guys a lot more than their play would dictate.

nyKnicks126
07-06-2012, 07:51 PM
Yeah but smaller markets over pay for guys to try to get them to come. They pay guys a lot more than their play would dictate.

Knicks over spent on Amar'e.. If a small market team got him.. They would spend the same..

But at some degree.. Small market teams do overspend.. But in my personal opinion.. I would rather play in Charlotte then a large market team like the Lakers.. exceptions are Chicago and NY. :D if they had the money for my talents.. Wouldn't want to play for any other large market team.

KingsPhillies
07-06-2012, 07:52 PM
Step 1: Make sure the team is not owned by the Maloof brothers...

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 08:15 PM
Yeah but smaller markets over pay for guys to try to get them to come. They pay guys a lot more than their play would dictate.

Knicks over spent on Amar'e.. If a small market team got him.. They would spend the same..

But at some degree.. Small market teams do overspend.. But in my personal opinion.. I would rather play in Charlotte then a large market team like the Lakers.. exceptions are Chicago and NY. :D if they had the money for my talents.. Wouldn't want to play for any other large market team.


See I felt like amare was a Mac guy at the time......

I think the whole point of the CBS was so big teams could not match small
ones panther 2 or 3 rd guy. Meaning once you have 2 stars it's hard to match on a third guy. I

felt like before big teams could offer the same or close to small ones, so guys were not gonna go to smaller teams in general.

But now small teams can bottom feed on 3rd tier talent if they are willing to over pay.

Kevj77
07-06-2012, 08:31 PM
Yeah but smaller markets over pay for guys to try to get them to come. They pay guys a lot more than their play would dictate.What would you suggest to fix this. A hard cap?

Not everyone lives up to their free agent contract or extension. Teams try to outbid eachother for available players. Especially for restricted free agents if you don't make it hard for their current team to match you'll never sign a decent restricted free agent ever. A lot of the players getting big contract offers this offseason are restricted free agents.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 08:38 PM
Yeah but smaller markets over pay for guys to try to get them to come. They pay guys a lot more than their play would dictate.What would you suggest to fix this. A hard cap?

Not everyone lives up to their free agent contract or extension. Teams try to outbid eachother for available players. Especially for restricted free agents if you don't make it hard for their current team to match you'll never sign a decent restricted free agent ever. A lot of the players getting big contract offers this offseason are restricted free agents.


I agree, that my point......these teams don't have much choice but to over pay.

lakerboy
07-06-2012, 08:43 PM
The thing is, if you are looking for a free agent, you are almost always sure to overpay. Even big market teams who sign free agents over pay (Amare to the Knicks, Carlos Boozer to the Bulls, David Lee to the Warriors)

The only way not to over pay is to

1.) develop the player and sign an extension at an early age
2.) trade for a player that is actually worth the money
3.) let bum players go. dont match crazy contract extensions like Omar Asik's. That's just ridiculous

See, small teams were the ones who accidentally set up this overpaying for free agency. By setting up barriers for a player to leave its team as as FA, they make it harder for themselves to lure free agent players.

Kevj77
07-06-2012, 08:49 PM
The thing is, if you are looking for a free agent, you are almost always sure to overpay. Even big market teams who sign free agents over pay (Amare to the Knicks, Carlos Boozer to the Bulls, David Lee to the Warriors)

The only way not to over pay is to

1.) develop the player and sign an extension at an early age
2.) trade for a player that is actually worth the money
3.) let bum players go. dont match crazy contract extensions like Omar Asik's. That's just ridiculous

See, small teams were the ones who accidentally set up this overpaying for free agency. By setting up barriers for a player to leave its team as as FA, they make it harder for themselves to lure free agent players.That was the point I was trying to make. By making it harder for players to leave they are forced to overpay players like Asik, Hibbert, Gordon, Lin and Batum or else it is just a no brain decision for their current team to match.

jayjay33
07-06-2012, 09:30 PM
The thing is, if you are looking for a free agent, you are almost always sure to overpay. Even big market teams who sign free agents over pay (Amare to the Knicks, Carlos Boozer to the Bulls, David Lee to the Warriors)

The only way not to over pay is to

1.) develop the player and sign an extension at an early age
2.) trade for a player that is actually worth the money
3.) let bum players go. dont match crazy contract extensions like Omar Asik's. That's just ridiculous

See, small teams were the ones who accidentally set up this overpaying for free agency. By setting up barriers for a player to leave its team as as FA, they make it harder for themselves to lure free agent players.That was the point I was trying to make. By making it harder for players to leave they are forced to overpay players like Asik, Hibbert, Gordon, Lin and Batum or else it is just a no brain decision for their current team to match.

True.......over paying can't be avoided if you want to have a contending team. So I guess people need to stop complaining about these contracts.