PDA

View Full Version : Blue Jackets Are Working "Very Hard" To Trade Nash



metswon69
07-05-2012, 04:39 PM
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8132974/columbus-blue-jackets-working-very-hard-trade-nash

It looks like the Rangers are in the running and the Blue Jackets want to get from under his contract.

Hopefully this is what Sather has his attention on considering we haven't very much otherwise this offseason.

IAmARanger18
07-05-2012, 05:13 PM
Yeah this is like old news, though it is "new" We all knew he wants to trade him but Howson is a moron.

NYY09
07-05-2012, 05:21 PM
:yawn: Working "very hard" as opposed to what? sitting around and doodling? Its prime FO time, of course they are... I'm truly starting to dislike this time of year with all the "sources" and "people with knowledge of the situation" BS....

SportsNY
07-05-2012, 06:04 PM
Rangers should just trade Dubinsky and Stepan for him already.

bsi
07-05-2012, 06:16 PM
Rangers should just trade Dubinsky and Stepan for him already.

So then Boyle is our 2nd line center? I don't think that's all that good of an idea, plus it's gonna take more than them two to get him.

QUBobcats550
07-05-2012, 06:56 PM
Forget Nash, let's concentrate on Bobby Ryan.

IAmARanger18
07-05-2012, 09:31 PM
Trading Stepan is a MISTAKE! I don't know why fans wanna trade him.

jpfunk86
07-06-2012, 01:59 AM
1st dubi delzotto thomas and erixson. Howson is never going to get more then that from someone else at the moment, 2 roster players 2 prospects 1 pick. If we do that, we can keep our depth while improving immensely. People seem to forget that Sauer will be back again at some point, our top 4 stays solid with his recovery.

Foge7
07-06-2012, 05:02 AM
Forget Nash, let's concentrate on Bobby Ryan.

Forget Ryan and Nash, sign semin! The guy has unbelievable talent, has been quoted to have more talent than ovechkin but is considered a lazy player for not living up to that talent. It's gotta be pretty easy to lose motivation in the shadow of ovechkin, no matter how well you play it will still be ovechkins team, and the media will be talking ovechkin the next day, so in a sense why bother? In the playoffs he was far from lazy and in NY he'd be our top player and our offensive leader, plenty of motivation for him here and we wouldn't have to give up anything but cash to get him. He's well worth the risk, and even if you feel he won't play to his potential he'll still put up 60-65 points easy which is a nice boost to our offensive production especially when the guy has a chance to be a 90+ point elite player in this league if he is motivated to be. Take the risk and get it done slats!

Isca92
07-06-2012, 07:18 AM
I trade Hagelin before I trade Stepan. Hagelins the one that would be stuck on the third line with the trade and a healthy Gaborik, but Stepan regardless is the second line center.

Its doubtful Semin wants 1 year. I have no interest in him on our team, hopefully he stays out of the Atlantic cause he scores on Hank, lol.

nyr2002nyr
07-06-2012, 07:49 AM
I trade Hagelin before I trade Stepan. Hagelins the one that would be stuck on the third line with the trade and a healthy Gaborik, but Stepan regardless is the second line center.

Its doubtful Semin wants 1 year. I have no interest in him on our team, hopefully he stays out of the Atlantic cause he scores on Hank, lol.


Agreed! keep Semin away from the Rangers

Add Doan

nyr2002nyr
07-06-2012, 07:52 AM
Forget Nash, let's concentrate on Bobby Ryan.

They say he is asking for the moon because Ryan's contract is cheaper then Nash at 5 per for the next 3 years

Isca92
07-06-2012, 08:09 AM
The only thing that worries me about Ryan is that he could leave in 3 years or want 10 year deal. All these long term deals make Nash's 6 remaining years dont seem as bad. Especially if the same amount of players are going to be for that player.

nyr2002nyr, welcome to the board.

saintant182
07-06-2012, 05:56 PM
The only thing that worries me about Ryan is that he could leave in 3 years or want 10 year deal. All these long term deals make Nash's 6 remaining years dont seem as bad. Especially if the same amount of players are going to be for that player.

nyr2002nyr, welcome to the board.

now i cant remember where or when i heard this. sometime over the last month... but im certain i remember reading on twitter from one of the tsn or espn guys that ryan has stated that he would like to play in philli during his nhl career so this woudl also scare me that he would just not resign after 3 years or it would become common knowlege and we wouldnt get fair value back in any trade of him.. but if that wasnt the case id love ryan and chose him over nash.. i also love nash, but his length and price of contract are somewhat large.

id also be happy with doan if it meant not giving in to rediculous trade demands when we certainly arent in a position to panic and do something stupid

rocowear21
07-06-2012, 06:35 PM
I really dont see how Nash's contract is that bad. I mean we would trade dubi in the package hopefully. There goes 4.5 million and Gaboriks contract is off the books in 2 years. You guys seem to be thinking that Nash is the same kind of player that Gomez and Drury were. Trust me he's not.

J4KOP99
07-06-2012, 07:30 PM
Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger

NYR still very interested in Rick Nash, but, they're not willing to wait forever. Currently exploring other options as well. Someone blink.

nyr2002nyr
07-06-2012, 10:53 PM
To bad gab is hurt if Sather wanted to impress me trade gab for Nash and then move the pieces for Ryan

Anyway to turn off the image verification?

Isca92
07-07-2012, 10:52 AM
Saintant, the article you talk about came out right around the draft when he went on the just trade me already rant. Ryan would love to be a Flyer, being from Cherry Hill its flyer country down there. He still talks to some people from there one of which is a friend of mine. If anyone wants to call me out on it go troll his twitter account, on memorial day weekend he took a nj roller hockey team out to the bar in Cali and he replies to one of the guys thanking him for last night. Does that mean he would bolt in 3 years no, but giving up the assets that it would be to get him, if he did leave in 3 years that would hurt. Plus add in that Staal could be out that same year to go play with his brothers.

Roco, totally agree with ur comments that Nash contract is not bad and he is not Drury, Gomez, Redden. If you go salary by age Nash is paid less then Richards, the only difference is he doesnt have bogus years added to reduce the cap hit.

I know everyone wants Doan if he leaves the yotes, Id like him as well. But hes going to get atleast 5 million and its doubtful that he signs less then a 3 year deal. Idrather give up the assets, have someone for longer and pay the bigger cap hit for a better player.

commonsense12
07-07-2012, 01:13 PM
7.8 cap hit for a guy who never hit 80 or90 pts is pretty bad. His high point total is 79 and that was 4 yrs ago and he has had falling production since. His contract is ugly and honestly i dont want a player with that high of a cap hit unless he is a top star in the league and Nash is not.

IAmARanger18
07-07-2012, 08:37 PM
Portzline was on WFAN earlier and he said that if the Rangers offered Dubi + 1st + Step for Nash they would do it.

I say HELL ****ING NO to that deal! Idk why fans wanna move Stepan, it is disgusting, he is coming off a 51 point season at just 21 years old, he will be our 1st line Center when Richie is all said and done here.

B-West.Joba
07-07-2012, 11:25 PM
Portzline was on WFAN earlier and he said that if the Rangers offered Dubi + 1st + Step for Nash they would do it.

I say HELL ****ING NO to that deal! Idk why fans wanna move Stepan, it is disgusting, he is coming off a 51 point season at just 21 years old, he will be our 1st line Center when Richie is all said and done here.

I agree. I don't know if Stepan will ever be a true #1 center for a Stanley Cup team, but I feel he has been very under appreciated lately. He's been in the league for two years now so it's hard to remember, but the guy is only a year older than Kreider. We all want to trade pieces for Ryan (myself included), but Stepan had only 6 less points than Ryan this year and he is 3 years younger. I understand the value Ryan has as a 30 goal scoring power forward, but still.

ShadyOne
07-08-2012, 09:48 AM
No way I'd deal Stepan. Guy is 22, already showed he is at worst a strong 2 way player, and a legit 2nd line center in this league. And who knows how good he can become. If we deal him, we leave ourselves another weakness.

Unless we are giving him and other pieces for a top-level Center, he shouldn't (and won't be) going anywhere. And what "fans" want to move Stepan? Haven't seen anyone here saying that...

IAmARanger18
07-08-2012, 12:04 PM
At least some of you agree with me, most fans don't realize how important it is to have good Centers to make a cup run...

nyr1980
07-08-2012, 01:51 PM
At 21, Stepan has already shown himself to be a 20-goal, 50-point player, and in only 160 games. Plus, they don't have a legit replacement for him on the 2nd line.

His ceiling, to me at least, is a consistent 20 goals and 55-65 points. Unless they have a right now replacement, they can't lose that.

Howson is nuts. In his situation of engineering a total rebuild, I'd rather have picks and prospects. They won't be any kind of good for 3-5 seasons, so why not add guys who you know will be around in that frame.

runnermjr1296
07-08-2012, 05:06 PM
Just read on Twitter there is an official offer on the table of 1st+ Dubi+Anisimov+MDZ,,supposedly the ball is now in CBJ's court,,sorry don't know how to repost but it comes from Hockey insider

NYRangers4Life
07-08-2012, 05:46 PM
Just read on Twitter there is an official offer on the table of 1st+ Dubi+Anisimov+MDZ,,supposedly the ball is now in CBJ's court,,sorry don't know how to repost but it comes from Hockey insider

That seems like too much in my opinion. 1st + Dubi + Anisimov is plenty.

NYSPORTS98
07-08-2012, 06:16 PM
I trade Hagelin before I trade Stepan. Hagelins the one that would be stuck on the third line with the trade and a healthy Gaborik, but Stepan regardless is the second line center.

Its doubtful Semin wants 1 year. I have no interest in him on our team, hopefully he stays out of the Atlantic cause he scores on Hank, lol.

Not sure what Hagelin will turn into. Is he a fast skater who will blossom into a goal scorer or simply be another Darren Turcotte?

saintant182
07-08-2012, 06:24 PM
me too.. i think if a 1st + dubi and mdz were on the table it would be a good deal for cbj... but add anizimov and its an even better deal that we have prob given up to much in...

i dont see why their needs to be more than 2 roster players + a 1st and proscpect.. some of the proposals have been way over the top..... dubi + AA +mdz +thomes + 1st...??????? hells no!!!!

rocowear21
07-08-2012, 06:33 PM
I would be able to live with Dubi, AA, 1st and Delzotto for nash.

saintant182
07-08-2012, 06:43 PM
^ha maybe im just tight... i would at least try to grab cbj's 2nd next yr or something lol.

IAmARanger18
07-08-2012, 08:47 PM
So would I

rocowear21
07-08-2012, 08:54 PM
With them in a huge rebuilding mode I doubt they give up any kind of draft pick.

ShadyOne
07-08-2012, 09:03 PM
If that deal is legit, that is definitely a fair offer, for a player that everyone knows has to be traded, should have been at the trade deadline...

That would honestly be a bittersweet deal for me, as I really like MDZ, and I think we haven't seen the best of Artie yet. But you have to give to get, and that is definitely a legit offer. Columbus should be heavily considering that one, likely hoping someone gets desperate and tops it. On the other hand, if that "isn't enough" then we all might as well give up on Nash, I wouldn't expect Sather to go any higher than that (and seriously hope he doesn't).

Mr.Wiskers
07-08-2012, 11:45 PM
Say what you will but i'd rather give up Skjei( our1st rd. pick from this yr.) and St.Croix( 105 pts in 76 WHL games) instead of MDZ.

Mr.Wiskers
07-08-2012, 11:50 PM
To clearify it AA,Dubinsky,Skjei( the draft rights to)St.Croix and a 1st Rd. pick.for Nash.

commonsense12
07-09-2012, 02:08 AM
I wouldnt give up MDZ for Nash. Frankly i am hoping we dont get Nash i would much rather sign Semin and give up nothing rather then give up a ton of talent. Also dont forget to look ahead to next year when Getzlaf or Perry could be FA's. Next years crop of UFA are way better then this years.

nyr1980
07-09-2012, 03:10 AM
I'm with you commonsense on not loving giving up MDZ. There is a reason that you don't see teams trade legitimate top-4 defensemen very often. They're so hard to replace and replace quickly.

But I do hope they are able to acquire Rick Nash. I think that he's exactly the kind of player they need, and I also believe that him finally finding himself on a talented roster with a great chance to win, will really up his level of play, his consistency, and his overall play. I'm not overly concerned with the fact that he's a minus player as he's been that on a really poor team.

Stepan and MDZ are, IMO some of the guys that should not be moved in a deal for Nash. I still believe that they can get the deal done without setting themselves back by dipping into pieces that they shouldn't.

nyr1980
07-09-2012, 03:16 AM
Again on Semin, it's just too risky, and he's gonna want an a**load of money. I honestly don't think that their are more than 2-3 teams in the league that would be willing to invest in him to the high level it will probably take.

Even coming off two subpar seasons, and a pretty poor playoff overall, he's probably gonna ask for upwards of 40-50 million, depending on term. And it could be way more than that.

Way too dangerous under those circumstances.

If by some miracle, they could get him for around $5.5-6.5 per season over 3-4 seasons, that would be worth a serious look.

Foge7
07-09-2012, 08:42 AM
Just read on Twitter there is an official offer on the table of 1st+ Dubi+Anisimov+MDZ,,supposedly the ball is now in CBJ's court,,sorry don't know how to repost but it comes from Hockey insider

Heard the same thing, giving up alot there, Nash is a bigtime player but we better be ready to fill those holes made by giving up 3 players and a pick for him cause Nash can't fill them by himself.

bsi
07-09-2012, 10:46 AM
Heard the same thing, giving up alot there, Nash is a bigtime player but we better be ready to fill those holes made by giving up 3 players and a pick for him cause Nash can't fill them by himself.

I hope Nash can play 40 minutes a game and defense too. haha

ShadyOne
07-09-2012, 07:23 PM
Again on Semin, it's just too risky, and he's gonna want an a**load of money. I honestly don't think that their are more than 2-3 teams in the league that would be willing to invest in him to the high level it will probably take.

Even coming off two subpar seasons, and a pretty poor playoff overall, he's probably gonna ask for upwards of 40-50 million, depending on term. And it could be way more than that.

Way too dangerous under those circumstances.

If by some miracle, they could get him for around $5.5-6.5 per season over 3-4 seasons, that would be worth a serious look.

Seriously?

5.5-6.5 per? For Semin?

Guy has talent, sure. But he is typically lazy, inconsistent, and seems to have peaked 3 seasons ago. And gives you basically nothing but talent and scoring. No hustle, no defense, no toughness, no heart. I honestly don't see where he fits on this team. Hockey is a game where players can have far more value than numbers say they do. Semin IMO actually manages to be worth less than his scoring says. If he was a consistent 80 point guy, I could see wanting him despite his lack of other attributes, but that isn't the case.

A big no thank you to him, rather overpay and eat Nash' contract than pay Semin anywhere near the money you suggest. I guess considering we are in serious need of some skill/scoring with Gabby out, I'd take him for 3-4 per, which wouldn't be enough anyway. So oh well...

commonsense12
07-09-2012, 08:10 PM
Again on Semin, it's just too risky, and he's gonna want an a**load of money. I honestly don't think that their are more than 2-3 teams in the league that would be willing to invest in him to the high level it will probably take.

Even coming off two subpar seasons, and a pretty poor playoff overall, he's probably gonna ask for upwards of 40-50 million, depending on term. And it could be way more than that.

Way too dangerous under those circumstances.

If by some miracle, they could get him for around $5.5-6.5 per season over 3-4 seasons, that would be worth a serious look.

You really think Semin will get 5.5-6.5 mill after back to back 54 pt seasons? If he can get that money let him go get it because i dont see anyone offering it. I think Semin will settle for a short contract on the basis of him doing well and then cashing in next year. Dont get me wrong Gms have been dumb in the past but i dont see anyone offering anywhere near that. Personally i offer him 4-5 mill on a 1 year deal and tell him if he plays well he is on a line of Richards and Gabs. With that potential he could do well and then sucker someone into paying him the above amount on a long term deal. Until that time frame i dont see anyone approaching those numbers for that long of a contract.

commonsense12
07-09-2012, 08:13 PM
Why do i think if we "win" the Nash sweepstakes people are going to look back and realize we are going to give up way too much for him. People are crazy in their proposals on what to give up. 5 for 1? Sorry there are maybe 5 players i do that for and they are all way better then Nash. People are way overrating him on this forum.

bsi
07-09-2012, 09:45 PM
Why do i think if we "win" the Nash sweepstakes people are going to look back and realize we are going to give up way too much for him. People are crazy in their proposals on what to give up. 5 for 1? Sorry there are maybe 5 players i do that for and they are all way better then Nash. People are way overrating him on this forum.

I'm all for trading him if we lose no more than one roster player not named Richards, Gaborik, Stepan, Callahan, Kreider, McDonagh, DelZotto, Staal, Girardi and ofcourse Lundqvist. There's a way to make this deal happen with players like Erixxon, McIlrath, Thomas, Bourque, Yogan, McColgan, Fast, Anisimov, Dubinsky, Hagelin, Boyle, and picks...we shouldn't have to break the core.

commonsense12
07-09-2012, 10:38 PM
I'm all for trading him if we lose no more than one roster player not named Richards, Gaborik, Stepan, Callahan, Kreider, McDonagh, DelZotto, Staal, Girardi and ofcourse Lundqvist. There's a way to make this deal happen with players like Erixxon, McIlrath, Thomas, Bourque, Yogan, McColgan, Fast, Anisimov, Dubinsky, Hagelin, Boyle, and picks...we shouldn't have to break the core.

Every report that i have seen has had at least 2 or 3 roster players in the trade. I actually saw one with Dubi, AA, MDZ and Erixon plus a first(or Hags). Erixon prob battles for a dman spot this year and rightfully so. I think people forget how much potential he actually has. We were all giddy when we got him last year and now he is a throw in, thats just sad. I am sorry but i cant understand how fans of this team think its a good idea to give up all that, which creates so many holes on this team for a guy who is NOT an elite talent and has a bloated contract.

Nash is going to give us 60-70 pts chances are. Thats not ELITE. He averages 65 or 66 pts for his career. People can use the arguement that he hasnt played with anyone but either did Gabs when he was in Minn and did his numbers go through the roof? Nope. Gabs scored 42 goals in his highest point in Minn and 42 as a Ranger. In fact if you take out Gabs rookie year his Minn PPG is almost identical to his NYR totals.

Bottom line is IMO unless Howson seriously lowers his asking price a Nash trade to this team will probably hurt this team more then help it. I have been through this before on this forum. 2 years ago everyone wanted to trade the farm for Spezza and Dubi was terrible. Then Dubi had a good year and everyone wanted to pay him a fortune. I debated fans and said i would not go above 3-3.5 mill and then people said no we should go all the way to 5 mill. Then it was trade Gabs after his bad season last year. Now he bounces back and he is great. Dubi had a bad year on a contract that pays him a bit too much IMO and now he is a throw in for every trade. fans are funny everyone sees something shiny (Nash) and everyone wants him so bad they will give up everything they have to get him. Sorry i just cant see making a trade and giving up 3 or 4 or even 5 NHL players for one guy unless his name is Malkin or Stamkos etc. Its a silly trade and one in which Howson is trying to save his job with. I wouldnt go anywhere near it unless he realizes Nash is overpaid and he can get prospects and picks in return and maybe one or two NHl players tops. It just not a good deal.

Isca92
07-09-2012, 10:43 PM
First, No thanks on semin. Commonsense, I agree hes not worth the cap hit but he will get it somewhere, hopefully its not from Glenn. Olie Jokenin got 2 years 4.5, PAP got 4 years 4 or 4.5, Jagr at 40 got 4.5. So I think he gets it, hope its not from us.

Second, that hockeyyinsiderr guy is rumored to be another fraud. One of the agents blasted him last week saying he has no idea who he is but when looking for info from him so him and the guys at the office made up some stuff and laughed their *ss off when he posted it. Im pretty sure Dregar called him out the other day. So unless he nails a big story, I take what he says lightly. He gave 5% chance Parise/Suter sign together. Suter was 95% going to detroit and Parise 90% going to Pitt. 95% and 90% could have been flipped with teams and players, I dont recall.

As for Nash and what is given up for him. The standard first round pick, which a late roun pick anyway, dont care about that. I have no problem giving up all the players that BSI listed, plus Miller. The only player he listed as being not moved that Im torn on is Stepan. Id like to keep him because of chemistry. But who does Gordie think is better him or Miller? I prefer Miller goes since hes not in the lineup yet. I know Stepan is young but how many centers in his age range are better? How many are older that will be around for awhile are better and how many younger are better. Basically how high do you guys rate him league wide. Its easier to replace a second line center then a true top line winger. Thats why hes the hard decision for me.

Isca92
07-09-2012, 10:55 PM
Commonsense, heres my problem with Dubi. Yes overpaid. But I dont think him and cally can be on the same team. Both are second line wingers but neither has the scoring touch to play on the same line. They may score 30 but that doesnt make them 30 goal scorers. They cant be relied on to be the second punch. Just like Clarkson the 30 goal scorer for the Devils last season did nothing in the playoffs. 4 million is to much for a third line winger and Kreider and Hags or player traded for knock him down to the third line. So I think he has value just not enough to keep him on this team.

Also, I wanted no part in Spezza either. Let me know what you think of my Datsyuk/Nash comparison in the other tread. We dont usually disagree but we do have some decent conversations regarding difference of opinions.

commonsense12
07-10-2012, 12:41 AM
First, No thanks on semin. Commonsense, I agree hes not worth the cap hit but he will get it somewhere, hopefully its not from Glenn. Olie Jokenin got 2 years 4.5, PAP got 4 years 4 or 4.5, Jagr at 40 got 4.5. So I think he gets it, hope its not from us.

Second, that hockeyyinsiderr guy is rumored to be another fraud. One of the agents blasted him last week saying he has no idea who he is but when looking for info from him so him and the guys at the office made up some stuff and laughed their *ss off when he posted it. Im pretty sure Dregar called him out the other day. So unless he nails a big story, I take what he says lightly. He gave 5% chance Parise/Suter sign together. Suter was 95% going to detroit and Parise 90% going to Pitt. 95% and 90% could have been flipped with teams and players, I dont recall.

As for Nash and what is given up for him. The standard first round pick, which a late roun pick anyway, dont care about that. I have no problem giving up all the players that BSI listed, plus Miller. The only player he listed as being not moved that Im torn on is Stepan. Id like to keep him because of chemistry. But who does Gordie think is better him or Miller? I prefer Miller goes since hes not in the lineup yet. I know Stepan is young but how many centers in his age range are better? How many are older that will be around for awhile are better and how many younger are better. Basically how high do you guys rate him league wide. Its easier to replace a second line center then a true top line winger. Thats why hes the hard decision for me.

I have to disagree with you again. First PAP was better then Semin last year and had more pts then him on a not so good islander team. Jagr deal was for 1 yr. I would have no prob signing Semin for a year at that cap hit. They prob had around the same production last year. Lastly the Ollie deal is another deal in which ollie was better then Semin last year. Its another short deal of 2 yrs and its Winn. They arent exactly a huge free agent destination so i think they have to overpay a little. Either way all those deals are short minus PAP and thats probably because PAP was simply better then Semin last year. Again if we gave Semin the same contract as any of them i would take it. He just costs money and not a whole lot of it. If he doesnt work out in NY we simply trade him for an upgrade. He doesnt cost us the farm.

BTW i really dont follow hockey insider. There has just been so many tweets and such about what Howson is asking for I dont think its a secret. The writting is on the wall that if he doesnt improve the team and soon he is going to get fired. Thats why he is asking for the moon on his only really good trade chip.

commonsense12
07-10-2012, 12:52 AM
Commonsense, heres my problem with Dubi. Yes overpaid. But I dont think him and cally can be on the same team. Both are second line wingers but neither has the scoring touch to play on the same line. They may score 30 but that doesnt make them 30 goal scorers. They cant be relied on to be the second punch. Just like Clarkson the 30 goal scorer for the Devils last season did nothing in the playoffs. 4 million is to much for a third line winger and Kreider and Hags or player traded for knock him down to the third line. So I think he has value just not enough to keep him on this team.

Also, I wanted no part in Spezza either. Let me know what you think of my Datsyuk/Nash comparison in the other tread. We dont usually disagree but we do have some decent conversations regarding difference of opinions.

We agree Dubi is overpaid. I disagree with you about Dubi and Cally on the same team. For awhile they had some good chemistry when AA was centering them. I think you and I will also disagree what a 3rd line has to be made up of. I think most people think a 3rd line has to be more of a grinding line and thats what i disagree with. If we have players on our first and 2nd lines that grind why cant we have a more skilled 3rd line? Our 4th line is going to be all grinders plus we have guys that can hit (not terribly hard lol) on our top 2 lines (cally, Kreider, AA and maybe Dubi if he makes 2nd line). If we drop these guys to a 3rd line and pair them with Hags i dont see anything wrong with that but i wouldnt care if they were on the top 2 lines and we had more skilled players on the 3rd line. It all depends on what we can get and for what price.

Also Jordan Staal was making 4 mill and he was a great 3rd line player. Granted he got traded but he still played that role for yrs. I think if we have ELC players playing in the top 2 lines (like we do) we can afford to pay more for 3rd line players if we have too. I obviously prefer more top end talent but i would rather pay someone in FA and get them for just money rather then gut this team and fill in holes. Stars dont win championships otherwise we would have won the cup every year from 98-the lockout.

What thread was the Nash/Dats comparison?

bsi
07-10-2012, 05:50 AM
First, No thanks on semin. Commonsense, I agree hes not worth the cap hit but he will get it somewhere, hopefully its not from Glenn. Olie Jokenin got 2 years 4.5, PAP got 4 years 4 or 4.5, Jagr at 40 got 4.5. So I think he gets it, hope its not from us.

Second, that hockeyyinsiderr guy is rumored to be another fraud. One of the agents blasted him last week saying he has no idea who he is but when looking for info from him so him and the guys at the office made up some stuff and laughed their *ss off when he posted it. Im pretty sure Dregar called him out the other day. So unless he nails a big story, I take what he says lightly. He gave 5% chance Parise/Suter sign together. Suter was 95% going to detroit and Parise 90% going to Pitt. 95% and 90% could have been flipped with teams and players, I dont recall.

As for Nash and what is given up for him. The standard first round pick, which a late roun pick anyway, dont care about that. I have no problem giving up all the players that BSI listed, plus Miller. The only player he listed as being not moved that Im torn on is Stepan. Id like to keep him because of chemistry. But who does Gordie think is better him or Miller? I prefer Miller goes since hes not in the lineup yet. I know Stepan is young but how many centers in his age range are better? How many are older that will be around for awhile are better and how many younger are better. Basically how high do you guys rate him league wide. Its easier to replace a second line center then a true top line winger. Thats why hes the hard decision for me.

A playmaking center is hard to find and Stepan is really underated on the forecheck as well. He's key to our 2nd line. I actually think people are overating Miller moreso than pumping up Stepan. Miller is actually slated as being more of a 3rd line two way player than a #2. His offensive skills aren't near where Stepan's were at the same point in his development. When comparing players it's easy to get carried away with what they are doing in the minors, but until they put on that Rangers jersey and start playing against men anything can happen. As a comparable, Stepan was the captain of Team USA in 2010 finishing the tourney as an all star with 4 goals and 10 assists in 7 games, Miller last year had 2 goals and 2 assists in 6 games, I don't think the two are comparable as offensive players. Stepan skipped the AHL and started here straight from college and he has a very good 96 points in 164 games for us and is one of the few players on this team that hasn't missed a game in those two years, he's only going to get better, I'm not prepared to let him go.

bsi
07-10-2012, 06:00 AM
Commonsense, heres my problem with Dubi. Yes overpaid. But I dont think him and cally can be on the same team. Both are second line wingers but neither has the scoring touch to play on the same line. They may score 30 but that doesnt make them 30 goal scorers. They cant be relied on to be the second punch. Just like Clarkson the 30 goal scorer for the Devils last season did nothing in the playoffs. 4 million is to much for a third line winger and Kreider and Hags or player traded for knock him down to the third line. So I think he has value just not enough to keep him on this team.

Also, I wanted no part in Spezza either. Let me know what you think of my Datsyuk/Nash comparison in the other tread. We dont usually disagree but we do have some decent conversations regarding difference of opinions.

I thought the Dubi, Stepan, Callahan was our best line once Dubi got back late in playoffs. Having said that, I don't think it's a problem of Dubi and Callahan on the same team, it's a problem of Dubi playing left wing instead of his natural center position. He's better when shooting from the center of the ice. When he's playing wing he ends up spending most of his time in the corner waiting for an opportunity to center the puck as opposed to bringing the puck out for a shot. He hasn't been able to play center since Richards was signed and Stepan came on the scene as we've had somewhat of a log jam of centers and no LW's. With everything that's gone on with this team he really should center the 3rd line, but that spot seems slotted to Boyle and they seem unwilling to try him at wing. So I guess my problem is that if the coaches are not going to use a guy where he's best suited then don't complain when he's not as productive as he should be when you resigned him as a center with 24 goals and 54 points.

Mr.Wiskers
07-10-2012, 10:41 AM
I see what you're saying but right now as it stands, we're gonna have Richards,Stepan,Boyle,Halpern at center this year.

bsi
07-10-2012, 02:16 PM
I see what you're saying but right now as it stands, we're gonna have Richards,Stepan,Boyle,Halpern at center this year.

The only problem is that while Boyle had one 20 goal season, it's more likely that Dubinsky could replicate his 54pt season than Boyle if he were in his natural position. If it were me coaching, I'd have Boyle either center the 4th line, or play wing on a line with Dubi and Hagelin. Even with Dubi having a bad year he was still 10 points over Boyle, I just think you let the better players play in their natural positions and let the lower point guys fill in around them considering there's more upside to Dubi at center than Boyle. But that's my two cents, I really think Torts will try and use Dubi in the top 6 as much as possible though to start the season if he's still here so that will mean playing wing.

NYY09
07-10-2012, 03:22 PM
The only problem is that while Boyle had one 20 goal season, it's more likely that Dubinsky could replicate his 54pt season than Boyle if he were in his natural position. If it were me coaching, I'd have Boyle either center the 4th line, or play wing on a line with Dubi and Hagelin. Even with Dubi having a bad year he was still 10 points over Boyle, I just think you let the better players play in their natural positions and let the lower point guys fill in around them considering there's more upside to Dubi at center than Boyle. But that's my two cents, I really think Torts will try and use Dubi in the top 6 as much as possible though to start the season if he's still here so that will mean playing wing.

This top-6, bottom- 6 thing is being made to much of. An offensively talented team can have 3 lines that can score with an occasional contribution from its, and for lack of a better word, "checking" or 4th line. There is no reason with the composition of the team for the Rangers not to put out 3 lines capable of finding twine.

The 3rd line shouldnt be considered so defensive by default.

Isca92
07-10-2012, 06:39 PM
Commonsense, The hockeyyinsiderr comment was more for everyone. Everyone got pissed when Portzine said he thinks the deal could be done with Stepan involved. Yet earlier in the week he said Howson and wasnt demanding Kreider, Stepan, Mcdonagh. As for the farm if were one of the deeper prospects teams as well as decent players on the roster it wouldnt be the farm.

Onto Dubi/Cally together. I dont think together they are strong enough to win a Stanley Cup as a second line. I don't think its the best idea to have a 4 million dollar guy on the 3rd line when you can put his 4 million when you can use that to have a 7.5 player or 7.8 for all the Nash talk. The problem with "balanced scoring lines" is when things get tight their isn't that guy that ok hes gonna come up big for them, its I hope somebody does. While you can always hope that player any player chips in, theres a skill reason that a player chips in over being counted on.

The Jordan Staal 4 million on the 3rd line, yeah he bolted but that also held money off the table to get Crosby a true scoring winger. But Crosbys good enough to offset not having a scoring winger. Id prefer to have my ELCs on 2/3 line instead of 1/2 so that when it gets tight were not relying on a rookie/sophmore type player for scoring.

I agree stars dont mean you win, but the right ones do. Look at Chicago when they won, Toews, Kane, Buff, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Cambell (over paid but still produced) Seabrook. Kings Kopitar, Brown, Richards, Carter (scored timely goals), Doughty, Scudari (probably spelled wrong). I don't think I have to list Detroit or Pitt. Boston just physically dominated everyone where I don't think that the team is big enough to do that.

The Datsyuk comparison is in the "official offseason thread".

commonsense12
07-10-2012, 07:27 PM
Commonsense, The hockeyyinsiderr comment was more for everyone. Everyone got pissed when Portzine said he thinks the deal could be done with Stepan involved. Yet earlier in the week he said Howson and wasnt demanding Kreider, Stepan, Mcdonagh. As for the farm if were one of the deeper prospects teams as well as decent players on the roster it wouldnt be the farm.

Onto Dubi/Cally together. I dont think together they are strong enough to win a Stanley Cup as a second line. I don't think its the best idea to have a 4 million dollar guy on the 3rd line when you can put his 4 million when you can use that to have a 7.5 player or 7.8 for all the Nash talk. The problem with "balanced scoring lines" is when things get tight their isn't that guy that ok hes gonna come up big for them, its I hope somebody does. While you can always hope that player any player chips in, theres a skill reason that a player chips in over being counted on.

The Jordan Staal 4 million on the 3rd line, yeah he bolted but that also held money off the table to get Crosby a true scoring winger. But Crosbys good enough to offset not having a scoring winger. Id prefer to have my ELCs on 2/3 line instead of 1/2 so that when it gets tight were not relying on a rookie/sophmore type player for scoring.

I agree stars dont mean you win, but the right ones do. Look at Chicago when they won, Toews, Kane, Buff, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Cambell (over paid but still produced) Seabrook. Kings Kopitar, Brown, Richards, Carter (scored timely goals), Doughty, Scudari (probably spelled wrong). I don't think I have to list Detroit or Pitt. Boston just physically dominated everyone where I don't think that the team is big enough to do that.

The Datsyuk comparison is in the "official offseason thread".

I think we think differently about this team. Being a fan of this team for decades i remember the teams that had no good potential prospects. For the first time in almost 20 yrs we finally have some good young talent. Now because a flashy name pops up fans want to trade a large portion of them for an overpaid player. I dont know how old you are but if you remember those over paid star studded teams that didnt do anything in the late 90s and early 2000s. Trading 4 or 5 good young players basically hurts us for years in terms of prospects.

Looking at our prospect pool we really only have 1 potential 1st line player and that is Kreider. We have a few guys who could be 2nd liners (Miller, Yogan and Fast are the guys i think have the best chance. Thomas but i am not too high on him but other then that i feel everyone is more of 3rd line players. Yes i know some guys could become 2nd liners that i failed to mention but would anyone really be surprised if they turned out to be 3rd liners if they even do well in the NHL? On defense we have 2 good prospects McI and Erixon. Just because we have a deep pool doesnt mean we need to trade them.


Now all that being said almost all of those prospects are a few years away. The only guy i see making this team out of camp is Erixon. Everyone else still needs seasoning in the AHL or wherever. I think thats why Sather is stocking up on 3rd and 4th liners. Now how much of a hole does losing Dubi, MDZ, AA, maybe Hags and thats not even including a pick and prospect that could be going the other way. I dont want Boyle as our 3rd line center thats a recipe for disaster. AA plays a good game but personally i would rather see him on wing.

In regards to Dubi with Cally, i dont have a problem with it but i prefer Dubi on the 3rd line. I really would like 3 lines that can score this year rather then 1 or 2. We did not get enough balanced scoring IMO. In a perfect world i would love to have our 3rd line of Dubi Step AA. I know its not going to happen because we need a better 2nd line center. I also dont get the fact that your not ok with a guy who had 54 pts last year getting a bit too much money but you are okay with for a guy that averages 65 pts. Nash makes almost 4 mill more then Dubi and granted Dubi had a horrible year but lets say he gets 45 pts and Nash gets 65 pts is that worth almost 4 mill plus 4 or 5 players? I just dont see it.

lastly you dont think we have stars? Henrik, Cally, Gabs, richards, Staal, Girardi, MCD are all pretty friggin good. If we win the cup those are the guys getting the credit. Add that to Kreider and MDZ for next year. We have tons of talent. I know you want another big scoring threat and so do I but only if the cost is right.

Isca92
07-11-2012, 09:40 AM
Commonsense, I do agree that its a difference of opinions based on age, even though Im not sure how old you are. I only started watching hockey around 1990 at the age of 8. However, by the time age of 16, its the only sport I followed. I remember the late 90s teams, I dreaded the 2000-04 teams as I was in college in Philadelphia area. With respect to that I remember the guys we brought in on the end of their career after injuries, the guys that came across the river just for money. I don’t believe that Nash is anywhere near the downswing of his career. The NHL package allowed me to watch every game and get ridiculed by Flyers fan and the one awful year the Flyers had I was out of college already. I still get the package to watch other games. Ive split season tickets since the year after the lockout. I love the sport and watch other games on off nights and when I go to a game I dvr it come home to see what I missed.

Heres where I think our difference of opinions comes from. I believe that the post lockout rules allow prospects to come in a lot younger then pre lockout. Before you could have the skill but without the “mansize” you didn’t have a shot. A player drafted at 18 is almost expected to be in the league by 21, not 24/25.

I agree with you that other then Kreider none of our forward prospects are considered to be second liners or third. That stems from middle of the pack draft spot. Since 2000, the only forwards drafted in the first round have been the Jessiman, Korpikowski, Cheripanov, Kreider, and Miller. While good players can slip and we don’t need a history on those, there is a difference skill between a top 5 pick and mid second round pick or later.

I feel that if there are no players expected to be true first line players, there is a log jam of 2/3 line players and if they can be combined to a true first line player then I’m all for that. I look at Nash and when he steps on the ice hes out against Lidstrom’s line, Keith’s line, Weber’s line, Petroangelos line, as well as the skilled forwards from their team, from the best division in the west. Whereas, Dubi is going out there not against the top guys from the best division of the east. I also look at the Nash’s decreasing stats with the improvement of teams in the division as well as Hitch being let go, teammates traded for Carter who had no interest in being there.

No matter who it is the price to acquire someone may be too high, I don’t say at any cost get him. I Just
think we vary on what is too much. What Id like to see is Dubi/Hagelin/Erixon packaged with the standard first and I would let them choose between AA/Thomas/Miller. I turn around and look to get a guy like Mueller to go plug in the top 6 until Gaborik comes back and then on the third line. If the top 2 lines are Nash/Kreider Richards/Stepan Gaborik/Cally, while keeping Girardi/Mcdonagh/Staal/MDZ, I think that’s pretty good lineup.
Im not saying our top guys aren’t stars but not the level of recent cup teams. A team that plays hard and competes doesn’t satisfy me anymore. It did post lockout, now I wont be satisfied til they are lifting the cup, and that top 6 and 4 are teams that wouldn’t be considered 1 and done teams. IMO Nash is one of those players that takes a good team to a great team. I think they are good team, not a 1 seed but not an 8 seed.

Hope you liked my book. lol

oak2455
07-11-2012, 10:16 AM
Wow look for news and it's a discussion ... Guess its sloooooooooooooooow

commonsense12
07-11-2012, 11:46 AM
Commonsense, I do agree that its a difference of opinions based on age, even though Im not sure how old you are. I only started watching hockey around 1990 at the age of 8. However, by the time age of 16, its the only sport I followed. I remember the late 90s teams, I dreaded the 2000-04 teams as I was in college in Philadelphia area. With respect to that I remember the guys we brought in on the end of their career after injuries, the guys that came across the river just for money. I don’t believe that Nash is anywhere near the downswing of his career. The NHL package allowed me to watch every game and get ridiculed by Flyers fan and the one awful year the Flyers had I was out of college already. I still get the package to watch other games. Ive split season tickets since the year after the lockout. I love the sport and watch other games on off nights and when I go to a game I dvr it come home to see what I missed.

Heres where I think our difference of opinions comes from. I believe that the post lockout rules allow prospects to come in a lot younger then pre lockout. Before you could have the skill but without the “mansize” you didn’t have a shot. A player drafted at 18 is almost expected to be in the league by 21, not 24/25.

I agree with you that other then Kreider none of our forward prospects are considered to be second liners or third. That stems from middle of the pack draft spot. Since 2000, the only forwards drafted in the first round have been the Jessiman, Korpikowski, Cheripanov, Kreider, and Miller. While good players can slip and we don’t need a history on those, there is a difference skill between a top 5 pick and mid second round pick or later.

I feel that if there are no players expected to be true first line players, there is a log jam of 2/3 line players and if they can be combined to a true first line player then I’m all for that. I look at Nash and when he steps on the ice hes out against Lidstrom’s line, Keith’s line, Weber’s line, Petroangelos line, as well as the skilled forwards from their team, from the best division in the west. Whereas, Dubi is going out there not against the top guys from the best division of the east. I also look at the Nash’s decreasing stats with the improvement of teams in the division as well as Hitch being let go, teammates traded for Carter who had no interest in being there.

No matter who it is the price to acquire someone may be too high, I don’t say at any cost get him. I Just
think we vary on what is too much. What Id like to see is Dubi/Hagelin/Erixon packaged with the standard first and I would let them choose between AA/Thomas/Miller. I turn around and look to get a guy like Mueller to go plug in the top 6 until Gaborik comes back and then on the third line. If the top 2 lines are Nash/Kreider Richards/Stepan Gaborik/Cally, while keeping Girardi/Mcdonagh/Staal/MDZ, I think that’s pretty good lineup.
Im not saying our top guys aren’t stars but not the level of recent cup teams. A team that plays hard and competes doesn’t satisfy me anymore. It did post lockout, now I wont be satisfied til they are lifting the cup, and that top 6 and 4 are teams that wouldn’t be considered 1 and done teams. IMO Nash is one of those players that takes a good team to a great team. I think they are good team, not a 1 seed but not an 8 seed.

Hope you liked my book. lol

Well i guess we will agree to disagree. I think you are way over valuing Nash to be honest. BTW i will bet Carter has a great year next year in LA. I think his struggles in columbus have something to do with Nash. Nash does not make players better and that is obvious. I dont think he has made anyone better in his entire career.

I also disagree with the guys that you are ready to give up a combination of Dubi/AA/Hags (Young NHL guys), Erixon (Probably ready this year), and Miller/Thomas (closest we have to being ready after Erixon) is a huge mistake. I would be fine with 2 or maybe even 3 of those guys, but 5.....no thanks. I am glad you left out step and MDZ.

I also want a cup but i dont think you realize how much an effect a trade will have on a team when you get rid of so many key pieces. It takes teams a long time to get used to each other. So far we have been lucky because we only lost Prust, Feds and Mitchell. I could not imagine losing another 4 or 5 guys from last years team. Most teams that switch over 6,7 or 8 guys from the previous season are not going to have the same success from the previous year. For arguements sake lets say we get Nash for Dubi, AA, hags and Erixon. Opening the year we only have Rich, Step, Cally, Boyle and maybe Rupp if he isnt a healthy scratch as forwards that started last year. That is really bad in terms of chemistry. I dont think you can do that to a team and expect them to take the next step.

IAmARanger18
07-11-2012, 03:07 PM
I'm kinda torn between two theories with this, I feel the longer this takes the more edge it gives Sather in the negotiations part of this, eventually Howson may drop his price since it is obvious Nash wants out and he wants to be a Ranger, but then again the longer this takes, this may give other teams like the Sharks and Red Wings more time to work out a deal for him. There is a good and bad part about this long negotiation.

apdamico
07-11-2012, 03:34 PM
Just sign Doan and keep our youth in place!

saintant182
07-11-2012, 07:26 PM
one thing ill say.. if its taking this long id assume slats is standing firm on a deal that he thinks is fair for us.. which i can also only trust is a good thing if it went down.. but beyond that... im so over this and would be happy to ditch the entire nash idea and just pick up doan on a one or two year for nothing more than money... something that we wont miss or regret giving away lol

Foge7
07-11-2012, 10:17 PM
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=637714&navid=DL|NHL|home

Looks Like Logically, Rangers Are Front Runners for Nash

metswon69
07-11-2012, 10:22 PM
I just want to see something done myself, this has been a very slow offseason for the Rangers and i don't like the fact that they haven't done much to fix this team offensively.

I am guessing Sather is focusing his attention especially on Nash and rightfully so but they gotta pull the trigger on something eventually.

Isca92
07-11-2012, 11:18 PM
Commonsense, I will agree to disagree. But I still have to answer some things you said lol. First Jeff Carter, I agree he should have a good season next year. But hes a 30 goal scorer when healthy played top minutes for Philly and now is a second liner. But IMO his time in Columbus was no ones fault but his own and nothing to do with Nash. He signed a huge deal with his friend from the age of 16 Richards. Then partied his way out of there. There was the Dry Island which was true, there was the rumored sleeping with Hartnals wife. 2 years prior he was in the SCF, then the ECF, then traded to the worst orgination in the league. He had no interest in being there and complained his way out. Many were schocked that Lombardi reunited the party boys, it worked out and now he has a winning core locked up for a long time, once they relock up Brown in 2 years and still have room.

As for chemsitry it is important but thats what camp is for. I dont care about the presidents trophy, just have to get in. I dont think there is a huge home ice advantage for them. They win at home and on the road. Id rather have an away seed going into the playoffs then battling out to win the division. The Garden is loud when they are winning but when its a big game at the garden and scoring hasnt started and they are not getting the better chances you can hear a pin drop.

As for the moving of that many players. The Flyers started last season with 7 forwards gone from the season before. Previous season stats: Richards/Carter 66 points a piece, Ville Leno 53 points, Versteeg (was a rental), Zherdev, Carcillo, Betts. Carter, Richards, and Leno were 3,4,5 in team scoring. They finished with 3 less points which were OT loses then the year before. Also Pronger their number 1 defenseman played only 13 games, JVR only played 44. Yes Carter and Richards won the cup but when looking at most important on the cup win would go Quick, Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Richards, Carter. I do think the Flyers are better off in the long runs with the guys they aquired.

As for MDZ not being included, I was one of the few on the board who wouldnt trade him during his sophmore slump when most people would have traded him for some practice pucks. Stepan, Ive been on the fence about. I like him but if he was included my offer would significantly drop. The reason I hold him out is because his teammate history with Mcdonagh and WJC history with Kreider.

I do agree that Sather is holding his ground. The only 2 teams I worry about in giving the better deal are Philly, which I really hope doesnt happen because I think him and Giroux will be lights out, and San Jose, they could put a good package together. I dont think that Wings will get him cant see trading your franchise face to a team in the division. Dont see pitt feeling the need to give up that much with the 2 best players in the game, but I could be wrong. Boston is the only team Im really not sure on what they have in the pipeline.

If anyone is interested in seeing 2 pictures of what MSG looks like today, check my twitter account @k92moore. A friend of mine is working the renovation and sent me 2 picks today.

nyr2002nyr
07-17-2012, 10:17 AM
I was just in the Blue Jackets forum and one guy in that forum wants the kind of return the Lindros/Foresberg trade got BAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH

Redfish
07-17-2012, 02:18 PM
I really dont see how Nash's contract is that bad. I mean we would trade dubi in the package hopefully. There goes 4.5 million and Gaboriks contract is off the books in 2 years. You guys seem to be thinking that Nash is the same kind of player that Gomez and Drury were. Trust me he's not.

I presume you do not believe the Rangers would want to resign Gaborik in two years? He has averaged a goal every other game (i.e., 40 goal per year player) since becoming a Ranger -- I think the organization's plan is to have two lethal scorers in the team, not just one the way it is now. Nash's contract term is a concern but a risk worth taking in my view. However, I hope Gaborik continues to perform the way he has been in recent years, and we resign him in two years.

NYSPORTS98
07-17-2012, 02:36 PM
I was just in the Blue Jackets forum and one guy in that forum wants the kind of return the Lindros/Foresberg trade got BAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH


Good, if they want that much and a new CBA indicates that teams can hold onto players through 7-10 years of service, let Columbus sit and hemorrhage.

nyr2002nyr
07-17-2012, 02:44 PM
I presume you do not believe the Rangers would want to resign Gaborik in two years? He has averaged a goal every other game (i.e., 40 goal per year player) since becoming a Ranger -- I think the organization's plan is to have two lethal scorers in the team, not just one the way it is now. Nash's contract term is a concern but a risk worth taking in my view. However, I hope Gaborik continues to perform the way he has been in recent years, and we resign him in two years.


I would take Nash over Gab anyday.

bsi
07-17-2012, 04:58 PM
I would take Nash over Gab anyday.

Asking anyone to replace Gaborik up until Christmas is a tough job, he was 3rd in goals last year, only behind Stamkos and Malkin, finishing ahead of players like James Neal, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, and the Sedins. Having said all that Nash has age on his side and the perceived edge in durability, however over the last 3 seasons Gaborik has played a lot harder games, games that meant something to the team, trying to get into playoffs or getting tops in the east, as well as the much more physical playoffs, something Nash hasn't had to do. Nash was able to coast through to the end of most seasons, he wouldn't be able to do that here. In all total, Gaborik has played 50 more playoff games since Nash came into the league, and that takes it's toll. Just something to think about, most people take Gabby for granted, but the guy has performed for this team, there's no guarantee Nash or anyone else will do what he has done. We're a 10th place team last year without his production, as well as Hanks.

nyr2002nyr
07-18-2012, 08:13 AM
Asking anyone to replace Gaborik up until Christmas is a tough job, he was 3rd in goals last year, only behind Stamkos and Malkin, finishing ahead of players like James Neal, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, and the Sedins. Having said all that Nash has age on his side and the perceived edge in durability, however over the last 3 seasons Gaborik has played a lot harder games, games that meant something to the team, trying to get into playoffs or getting tops in the east, as well as the much more physical playoffs, something Nash hasn't had to do. Nash was able to coast through to the end of most seasons, he wouldn't be able to do that here. In all total, Gaborik has played 50 more playoff games since Nash came into the league, and that takes it's toll. Just something to think about, most people take Gabby for granted, but the guy has performed for this team, there's no guarantee Nash or anyone else will do what he has done. We're a 10th place team last year without his production, as well as Hanks.


WOW.....Nash has played with nobody in Col while Gabby has been on a good team..Nash has had to do it all alone and is a way tougher player then gabs can ever dream of. I dont care if we dont make that trade for Nash myself i like our core but Gabs is a soft player always has been always will be. You are right though we have no guarantee 's that anyone who comes in will do what they did elsewhere but if he can score 30 with that AHL lineup in Col im betting 40 shouldnt be a issue

ShadyOne
07-18-2012, 08:45 AM
WOW.....Nash has played with nobody in Col while Gabby has been on a good team..Nash has had to do it all alone and is a way tougher player then gabs can ever dream of. I dont care if we dont make that trade for Nash myself i like our core but Gabs is a soft player always has been always will be. You are right though we have no guarantee 's that anyone who comes in will do what they did elsewhere but if he can score 30 with that AHL lineup in Col im betting 40 shouldnt be a issue

Honestly, Gabby takes a lot of crap from a lot of people. The guy isn't a mauler, a tough guy out there. He doesn't throw big hits, he doesn't fight, he scores goals. Honestly, for him being that kind of player, I really don't see him as soft. He plays plenty hard out there, doesn't shy away from contact.

People wondered how he would hold up, whether or not he would be worth the contract he was given. Well, looking at what he has done, how much more could you ask from him? 2 great 40 goal seasons, and an injury plagued one which he was clearly not right, but still went out and played 60 games, gutted it out because the team needed it, and put up almost 50 points. And has managed good +/- numbers. Oh yeah, and all of that has happened with him being the "marked man". Opposing coaches shadow him with the best defensive players, don't let him beat them, and still he has. You say he has been on a good team, yes, he has. But he has been the main (and nearly only) big offensive threat, on a team that plays a defensive style. So I don't see how that helps his numbers...

As long as he is still right, and the money isn't crazy for an aging player, I see no reason why he isn't resigned. If we got a guy like Nash, Gabby makes even more sense to keep.

nyr2002nyr
07-18-2012, 12:08 PM
Honestly, Gabby takes a lot of crap from a lot of people. The guy isn't a mauler, a tough guy out there. He doesn't throw big hits, he doesn't fight, he scores goals. Honestly, for him being that kind of player, I really don't see him as soft. He plays plenty hard out there, doesn't shy away from contact.

People wondered how he would hold up, whether or not he would be worth the contract he was given. Well, looking at what he has done, how much more could you ask from him? 2 great 40 goal seasons, and an injury plagued one which he was clearly not right, but still went out and played 60 games, gutted it out because the team needed it, and put up almost 50 points. And has managed good +/- numbers. Oh yeah, and all of that has happened with him being the "marked man". Opposing coaches shadow him with the best defensive players, don't let him beat them, and still he has. You say he has been on a good team, yes, he has. But he has been the main (and nearly only) big offensive threat, on a team that plays a defensive style. So I don't see how that helps his numbers...

As long as he is still right, and the money isn't crazy for an aging player, I see no reason why he isn't resigned. If we got a guy like Nash, Gabby makes even more sense to keep.

I dont see him as a HARD player ever but that is IMO. That being said if you had to choose one you wouldnt take Gabby over Nash.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/eye-on-hockey/19607710/nhl-rumors-columbus-rejects-hell-of-an-offer-from-detroit-for-rick-nash

bsi
07-18-2012, 01:35 PM
WOW.....Nash has played with nobody in Col while Gabby has been on a good team..Nash has had to do it all alone and is a way tougher player then gabs can ever dream of. I dont care if we dont make that trade for Nash myself i like our core but Gabs is a soft player always has been always will be. You are right though we have no guarantee 's that anyone who comes in will do what they did elsewhere but if he can score 30 with that AHL lineup in Col im betting 40 shouldnt be a issue

Ya.......but Gaborik had 41....that's my point. In order for Nash to be an offensive upgrade to Gaborik he'd have to get to 45-50, which he possibly could do, but the point is that as much criticism as Gaborik gets, he's produced at a level that is hard to replace. Also, I agree Nash hasn't had too much to work with in Columbus, but no matter what team you're on, it's hard to get 40 goals in the NHL now, only 4 players did it this year. With Ovechkin, the Sedins, Datsyuk, Toews, Kane, Giroux, Hossa, Perry, Ryan, Iginla, Spezza, Kessel etc etc all under 40. Also people forget that Stepan was Gaborik's center for about half the season, so with all that there's really no guarantee that Nash outperforms Gaborik.

rocowear21
07-18-2012, 08:35 PM
I am all for resigning gabs to a new contract once this one is up. But its not going to be worth 7.5 a year. I worry about Gabs staying healthy as he gets older. His game is his speed which we can tell he is losing little by little. He is still a elite player but he has been getting more goals around the net then sniping. His game is not infront of the net though. His speed is his strength along with that quick wrist shot. Once his legs go he will never be the same. Yes he gets goals in front of the net now, but the dude is made of glass and will not survive there like a hartnell or knuble type player.

But def I would resign him.

rocowear21
07-18-2012, 08:36 PM
I can guarantee that Nash scores 40 goals with the system that we play and on a line with Richards or Stephan

IAmARanger18
07-18-2012, 08:39 PM
He easily would score here, but we need to manage to keep Stepan so he can Center him when Gabby comes back and plays on the top line with Richards

bsi
07-18-2012, 10:09 PM
I can guarantee that Nash scores 40 goals with the system that we play and on a line with Richards or Stephan

Ya, but so did Gaborik. The point was that it's hard to replace Gaborik, if Nash scored 40 he just barely replaced him. If he scored 35 then he didn't, the idea that he'd be better than Gaborik offensively would mean that he'd have to get 45 + goals, something that's hard to do in this league. I just think it's time Gaborik gets some credit for what he's done here, he was 3rd in the entire NHL in goal scoring this year, a host of other players that are supposed to be better than him didn't accomplish that, a lot of them play with excellent players as well. My point is that as much as everyone craps on Gabby, he's the 3rd best goal scorer in the NHL this year and it's not gonna be easy to replace him. I love Nash, I think he'd be great here but really, expecting him to crack Gaboriks 41 goals is a tough chore, only Malkin and Stamkos did it this year.

Redfish
07-19-2012, 12:09 PM
The plan is for both Gaborik and Nash to be wearing Ranger blue for quite some time.

rocowear21
07-19-2012, 12:29 PM
The plan is for both Gaborik and Nash to be wearing Ranger blue for quite some time.

Yes...

NYY09
07-19-2012, 01:16 PM
Ya, but so did Gaborik. The point was that it's hard to replace Gaborik, if Nash scored 40 he just barely replaced him. If he scored 35 then he didn't, the idea that he'd be better than Gaborik offensively would mean that he'd have to get 45 + goals, something that's hard to do in this league. I just think it's time Gaborik gets some credit for what he's done here, he was 3rd in the entire NHL in goal scoring this year, a host of other players that are supposed to be better than him didn't accomplish that, a lot of them play with excellent players as well. My point is that as much as everyone craps on Gabby, he's the 3rd best goal scorer in the NHL this year and it's not gonna be easy to replace him. I love Nash, I think he'd be great here but really, expecting him to crack Gaboriks 41 goals is a tough chore, only Malkin and Stamkos did it this year.

Maybe Nash wont score 40+ in his first year on Bway, but he most certainly has the ability to do so. Put that man on a contender, get the adrenaline flowing, and watch him go.... The guy is beast, no question.

bsi
07-19-2012, 04:53 PM
Maybe Nash wont score 40+ in his first year on Bway, but he most certainly has the ability to do so. Put that man on a contender, get the adrenaline flowing, and watch him go.... The guy is beast, no question.

Ya, I'm not debating Nash's abilities, just saying we have something pretty special we all take for granted in Gaborik.

ShadyOne
07-19-2012, 06:30 PM
Ya, I'm not debating Nash's abilities, just saying we have something pretty special we all take for granted in Gaborik.

Agree...

People here basically **** on the guy, he has been exactly what we needed, and exactly what we paid for. I really like him, and don't want him going anywhere. How much more would the guy have to do for people to respect him as a top-level player?

And you are right, the plan is definitely to have him and Nash. That would be 2 lethal weapons, in addition to all the other good players. Still hoping something gets done, but I figure the amount of time this has gone on, and the overall lack of news can't be a good sign.

Isca92
07-19-2012, 09:12 PM
Imo when team had the offense with Jagr and company the defense wasnt there, now the defense is there minus a minute logger to take minutes off of the top guys. The problem now is there is not enough offense.

Gaborik is injury prone not soft, there is a big difference. Even with his injury he still went to the front of the net, which is where he scored from. He couldnt get anything on his shot. In January I had the same surgery he had, a full laberum tear. I had to wait 4 months with tear before getting surgery. You have no strength, your arm is not in the socket. That is not the same as a seperated shoulder, where the problem is in the AC joint not the socket.

Even if he wasnt hurt I thing they still need another go to forward. Its gotta be someone who can carry a lines work load. While Kreider may be able to fill that void, putting that pressure is alot on a rookie. Bringing in Nash takes it off him and allows him to go to through the bumps.

bsi
07-20-2012, 12:02 AM
Imo when team had the offense with Jagr and company the defense wasnt there, now the defense is there minus a minute logger to take minutes off of the top guys. The problem now is there is not enough offense.

Gaborik is injury prone not soft, there is a big difference. Even with his injury he still went to the front of the net, which is where he scored from. He couldnt get anything on his shot. In January I had the same surgery he had, a full laberum tear. I had to wait 4 months with tear before getting surgery. You have no strength, your arm is not in the socket. That is not the same as a seperated shoulder, where the problem is in the AC joint not the socket.

Even if he wasnt hurt I thing they still need another go to forward. Its gotta be someone who can carry a lines work load. While Kreider may be able to fill that void, putting that pressure is alot on a rookie. Bringing in Nash takes it off him and allows him to go to through the bumps.

I agree, it sucks that Gaborik is gonna be out, it would have been nice to see what this team can do all playing together for the year and maybe adding a Miller or a Yogan or someone. I'm fully onboard with the way this team is heading, I like our young players, I'd find more satisfaction in building a cup winner than buying one I guess. I think it's too bad that a guy like Dubinsky or Anisimov has to get traded when they've been key to the rebuilding process, I don't think there's anyone that was harder on Dubinsky than he was himself last year and that might have compounded his problems. I want a cup, but as the team motto is, I want it "the right way". I love Nash, don't get me wrong but I'm not sure that unloading half the team is getting us any further ahead. I'd be comfortable with the team we have, they've come so far but it's too bad Gabby isn't healthy it would make a world of difference. The team will likely slump without him or a replacement.

nyr2002nyr
07-20-2012, 09:47 AM
I agree, it sucks that Gaborik is gonna be out, it would have been nice to see what this team can do all playing together for the year and maybe adding a Miller or a Yogan or someone. I'm fully onboard with the way this team is heading, I like our young players, I'd find more satisfaction in building a cup winner than buying one I guess. I think it's too bad that a guy like Dubinsky or Anisimov has to get traded when they've been key to the rebuilding process, I don't think there's anyone that was harder on Dubinsky than he was himself last year and that might have compounded his problems. I want a cup, but as the team motto is, I want it "the right way". I love Nash, don't get me wrong but I'm not sure that unloading half the team is getting us any further ahead. I'd be comfortable with the team we have, they've come so far but it's too bad Gabby isn't healthy it would make a world of difference. The team will likely slump without him or a replacement.

A slump is possible but you never know...remember Gabby is either HOT or COLD no middle ground really he is a very streaky player

rocowear21
07-20-2012, 06:26 PM
A slump is possible but you never know...remember Gabby is either HOT or COLD no middle ground really he is a very streaky player

But we see what happens to him in the playoffs. Yes he was hurt I know. But he is a player that finds the open spaces and makes you pay. In the playoffs there arent that many open spaces and a player like him could struggle more.

You throw nash out there with Gabs if we need a goal and Nash commands two defenders on him creating lots of room for Gabs.

nyr1980
07-20-2012, 06:30 PM
Getting Nash under any circumstances won't cost half the roster.

rocowear21
07-20-2012, 06:32 PM
I hope not nyr
It shouldn't I believe something happens soon though.

nyr2002nyr
07-20-2012, 09:29 PM
But we see what happens to him in the playoffs. Yes he was hurt I know. But he is a player that finds the open spaces and makes you pay. In the playoffs there arent that many open spaces and a player like him could struggle more.

You throw nash out there with Gabs if we need a goal and Nash commands two defenders on him creating lots of room for Gabs.

What i ment by that is it might not matter that much missing him for the biginning kind of like if he started off slow and was cold

nyr1980
07-20-2012, 10:14 PM
I hope not nyr
It shouldn't I believe something happens soon though.

Fewer and fewer dominoes are left to fall. The Weber thing will be done by the end of the week. Then it's just Semin and Doan in the FA market, and Nash and Ryan in trade.

I think it's coming before the end of the month, no later than 1st week of August. These guys want to take vacations, and camps open in like 6 weeks.

Neither ANA or CBJ can afford to have either of their guys in camp at this point.

rocowear21
07-20-2012, 11:11 PM
Fewer and fewer dominoes are left to fall. The Weber thing will be done by the end of the week. Then it's just Semin and Doan in the FA market, and Nash and Ryan in trade.

I think it's coming before the end of the month, no later than 1st week of August. These guys want to take vacations, and camps open in like 6 weeks.

Neither ANA or CBJ can afford to have either of their guys in camp at this point.

Agreed