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Mile High Champ
07-05-2012, 12:44 AM
Hey guys, Some of you may remember that for the last four years I have conducted a poll at the end of the season that had PSD users vote for the top 10 players at each position. The season is now over and the Heat have been crowned NBA champs which means its time to kick off the off-season player rankings.

A lot has changed since last season. Lebron was labelled by some as Choke Artist in the clutch and now this year had one of the greatest finals performances in recent memory. Let start the discussion since lots has changed since the start of last season. Please TRY AND VOTE FOR THE BEST PLAYER AND DON'T BE A HOMER. I will leave the poll open for one day and than we can carry on to the next best player at that position. I will add more players after each round. I have also included the results of those last 4 years so everyone can see how much things have changed...Enjoy.

REMEMBER this is based on who is the best player, not the player who has the potential to be the best


2012 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings

1) Chris Paul
2) Derrick Rose
3) Russell Westbrook
4) Deron Williams
5) Rajon Rondo
6) Tony Parker
7) Steve Nash
8)
9)
10)




2011 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings

1) Chris Paul
2) Derrick Rose
3) Deron Williams
4) Russell Westbrook
5) Steve Nash
6) Rajon Rondo
7) Tony Parker
8) Jason Kidd
9) Chauncey Billups
10) Stephen Curry

2010 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings
1) Deron Williams
2) Chris Paul
3) Steve Nash
4) Rajon Rondo
5) Derrick Rose
6) Chauncey Billups
7) Russel Westbrook
8) Tony Parker
9) Jason Kidd
10) Tyreke Evans

2009 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings
1) Chris Paul
2) Deron Williams
3) Chauncey Billups
4) Tony Parker
5) Steve Nash
6) Derrick Rose
7) Devin Harris
8) Rajon Rondo
9) Jose Calderon
10) Jason Kidd

2008 Off-Season PSD PG Rankings
1) Chris Paul
2) Steve Nash
3) Deron Williams
4) Baron Davis
5) Tony Parker
6) Jason Kidd
7) Chauncey Billups
8) Gilbert Arenas
9) Jose Calderon
10) Andre Miller

Eaglesfan05
07-05-2012, 12:46 AM
I'd take Rubio, but Irving is probably gonna win it

Mile High Champ
07-05-2012, 12:48 AM
Lowry deserves this. Best two way guard left on the board and easily the best defensive PG. Lowry continues to be underrated on PSD.

Cano4prez
07-05-2012, 12:48 AM
Kyrie then Lowry

Chacarron
07-05-2012, 01:03 AM
I want to vote for Irving here, but Kyle Lowry ultimately gets my vote.

Ryan328
07-05-2012, 01:04 AM
Same. Wanna vote for Kyrie but I think I'll put Lowry ahead.

Mile High Champ
07-05-2012, 01:54 AM
keep voting guys.

LGhost
07-05-2012, 02:01 AM
See and I wanted to vote for Jarrett Jack right here... He was a bright spot on the Hornets last year in case no one else noticed, I don't blame you though....

SugeKnight
07-05-2012, 02:35 AM
Steph Curry

IversonIsKrazy
07-05-2012, 02:52 AM
If I base it on last year's performance, I will go with Ty Lawson. Kyrie will rise of course, as will Rubio & Curry (if he stays healthy), but as of last year, I think Ty got this spot. U really notice a drop though after the 7th spot eh

Sadds The Gr8
07-05-2012, 02:54 AM
Ty Lawson. I like Lowry but he fell off after he was injured. And Irving is good but I wanna see him do it for another season.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=lowryky01&y1=2012&p2=irvinky01&y2=2012&p3=lawsoty01&y3=2012

it's pretty close after looking at the comparison

Baller1
07-05-2012, 03:07 AM
Kyrie, easily.

SportsFanatic10
07-05-2012, 03:37 AM
lowry got my vote but irving and lawson are very good to.

sunsfan88
07-05-2012, 06:07 AM
Come on guys its clearly Goran Dragic here ;)

No but seriously, I think its Lawson. Can't go wrong with Irving either though...but damn how does Lowry have more votes than Lawson? Lowry's the same guy who got injured then lost his starting spot and sucked right?

aussie
07-05-2012, 06:30 AM
Kyrie

StarvingKnick22
07-05-2012, 07:28 AM
How is Irving considered? He's Still a rookie and should go atleast at ten. I'm stuck between Stephen Curry and lin.

koetravis
07-05-2012, 07:46 AM
How is Irving considered? He's Still a rookie and should go atleast at ten. I'm stuck between Stephen Curry and lin.

You're kidding, right?

Chavacano
07-05-2012, 07:50 AM
Lawson, Lowry, Irving then Curry IMO although I might be missing someone.

StarvingKnick22
07-05-2012, 08:47 AM
You're kidding, right?

Obviously :cool:

knicksfan42
07-05-2012, 09:13 AM
Voted for Lowry wanted to voted Irving.

Dade County
07-05-2012, 10:03 AM
lawson or curry ... idk

AntiG
07-05-2012, 10:19 AM
again, Kidd and Miller are missing from this poll. They would be serious contenders for the next two spots. Therefore, I am voting for Lin despite him not deserving.

justinnum1
07-05-2012, 11:00 AM
lmao people picking lin

Swashcuff
07-05-2012, 11:29 AM
again, Kidd and Miller are missing from this poll. They would be serious contenders for the next two spots. Therefore, I am voting for Lin despite him not deserving.

Kidd nor Lin nor Miller deserves to be chosen here or anywhere near here. There are still better players on the board.

Also instead of *****ing MAKE A CASE as to why J.Kidd deserves to be here. There is no way MHC should even listen to you if you can't support your argument.

Swashcuff
07-05-2012, 11:33 AM
The last 3 spots belong to Kyrie, Lowry and Lawson in that order IMO.

Curry only playing 23 games hurt his chances more so than even Rose and when he was on the floor he didn't have the huge impact that Rose had for his Bulls.

Kyrie really showed great leadership for the Cavs this past season with his clutch play damn near every time they needed it from him. He continued to get better as the season progressed and really showed us exactly why he was deserving of the #1 pick

Lowry started off the season as top 5 PG in the NBA but he came back down to earth as the season progressed and sort of evened out. He was still a top quality PG though and arguably the best defensive PG in the entire NBA.

Lawson was a tough call for me but in terms of production he was more deserving than anyone else and it also doesn't hurt given the fact that he was the best player on a WC playoff team.

TheNumber37
07-05-2012, 11:52 AM
Who keeps voting for Lin?

tredigs
07-05-2012, 01:12 PM
Healthy, I think this is Steph Curry's slot. It sucks that he did not get to showcase himself last year much (and when he did, it was on an unstable ankle obviously), he was ready to break out. But Kyrie is a legitimately great PG who has a clutch gene that kicks up to top 10 player in the league in the 4th quarter. His numbers were actually the best in the game in the last 5 minutes of close games.

I homer voted Steph based on where he'd be healthy and where I see him at this very moment if the league started today, but I'm more than good with Irving here.

Delusional
07-05-2012, 01:21 PM
I'd say Kyrie Irving. If Lowry hadn't lost his starting job to Dragic, it'd be him.

RaJAxTWa
07-05-2012, 01:27 PM
Uncle drew!!

nbrod
07-05-2012, 01:35 PM
Kyrie

THE GIPPER
07-05-2012, 01:38 PM
Lowry, Lawson and Irving statistical comparison: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=lawsoty01&y1=2012&p2=irvinky01&y2=2012&p3=lowryky01&y3=2012

Jint.
07-05-2012, 01:47 PM
Irving

Hawkeye15
07-05-2012, 02:17 PM
going into this season, give my Irving over any of the available here.

greg_ory_2005
07-05-2012, 03:27 PM
It's between Kyrie and Lawson for me. I'd go with Kyrie though.

ManRam
07-05-2012, 03:57 PM
8. Kyrie
9. Lowry
10. Lawson

NYMetros
07-05-2012, 04:29 PM
Going with Kyrie.

Can break anyone down off the dribble and get to the basket at will. Pretty decent jump shot as well. Love his game so much.

Bruno
07-05-2012, 04:29 PM
The last 3 spots belong to Kyrie, Lowry and Lawson in that order IMO.

Curry only playing 23 games hurt his chances more so than even Rose and when he was on the floor he didn't have the huge impact that Rose had for his Bulls.

Kyrie really showed great leadership for the Cavs this past season with his clutch play damn near every time they needed it from him. He continued to get better as the season progressed and really showed us exactly why he was deserving of the #1 pick

Lowry started off the season as top 5 PG in the NBA but he came back down to earth as the season progressed and sort of evened out. He was still a top quality PG though and arguably the best defensive PG in the entire NBA.

Lawson was a tough call for me but in terms of production he was more deserving than anyone else and it also doesn't hurt given the fact that he was the best player on a WC playoff team.

I'm with ya. although i might take lawson over lowry first just because of how good of a playoff run he had.

tredigs
07-05-2012, 04:36 PM
Even on the limited ankle, Steph Curry's PER (21.2) and TS% (.605) easily beat the best of Ty Lawson and Lowry. Far from the be all in the debate, but I'm taking him over both. Already one of the best shooters in NBA history to boot.

And Lowry only played 45 or so games himself.

Bruno
07-05-2012, 05:49 PM
Even on the limited ankle, Steph Curry's PER (21.2) and TS% (.605) easily beat the best of Ty Lawson and Lowry. Far from the be all in the debate, but I'm taking him over both. Already one of the best shooters in NBA history to boot.

And Lowry only played 45 or so games himself.

defense? curry can't guard his own shadow.

...i had a hard time deciding to leave curry off my list.

DR_1
07-05-2012, 06:13 PM
Kyrie then Rubio

tredigs
07-05-2012, 06:26 PM
defense? curry can't guard his own shadow.

...i had a hard time deciding to leave curry off my list.

Offense? Lowry's best is 14 ppg and he shoots 40.9% from the field. When given the opportunity Dragic stole his job and ultimately he was shipped out of town. Worth noting that on 82games you can see that opponents production (by PER) is identical to Curry's at 17.

Also from there, Curry's "simple rating" (combo of PER production and adjusted +/-) at 6.8 more than doubled both Lowry and Lawson. His 'clutch' shooting (last 5 minutes of games within 5 points) is easily the best too.

Steph Curry's a boss when he's out there, he's a better point than Lowry for sure. I like Ty a lot too, but Steph's better.

b@llhog24
07-05-2012, 07:04 PM
Kyrie, easily.

+1


Healthy, I think this is Steph Curry's slot. It sucks that he did not get to showcase himself last year much (and when he did, it was on an unstable ankle obviously), he was ready to break out. But Kyrie is a legitimately great PG who has a clutch gene that kicks up to top 10 player in the league in the 4th quarter. His numbers were actually the best in the game in the last 5 minutes of close games.

I homer voted Steph based on where he'd be healthy and where I see him at this very moment if the league started today, but I'm more than good with Irving here.

Your only as good as your healthy logic fails here though.

Swashcuff
07-05-2012, 07:08 PM
Even on the limited ankle, Steph Curry's PER (21.2) and TS% (.605) easily beat the best of Ty Lawson and Lowry. Far from the be all in the debate, but I'm taking him over both. Already one of the best shooters in NBA history to boot.

And Lowry only played 45 or so games himself.

Weren't you the same one who had a long debate with me over Rose being out for so long?

Curry was out even longer and honestly really didnt separate himself THAT much from those other 3. Wasn't separation your reason for saying Rose wasn't top 5 and the fact that he want able to step on the floor dimished his value more so than anything?

Is it because Rose is going to miss a considerable chunk of next season the reason why he was so low on your list when quite frankly this thread has nothing to do with next season?

Honestly I had a tough time not picking curry here but IMO he didn't give us a large enough sample size to prove his worth. If we compare him to Lowry through the first 20+ games of the season it would be a no contest.

I find it extremely ironic that you went on arguing with me for so long as to why Rose shouldn't be up there but now you think Curry should be :confused:

At not point last season did any other PG plot named Chris Paul play a better PG than Derrick Rose when he was healthy, last season we saw Lowry play better than Curry same for Irving as well. In Lawson's case he got the edge for leading a playoff team in the west as their best player and also taking him game to another level in the post season.

Jays Claw
07-05-2012, 07:13 PM
I'll go with Lowry at #8.

tredigs
07-05-2012, 08:56 PM
Weren't you the same one who had a long debate with me over Rose being out for so long?

Curry was out even longer and honestly really didnt separate himself THAT much from those other 3. Wasn't separation your reason for saying Rose wasn't top 5 and the fact that he want able to step on the floor dimished his value more so than anything?

Is it because Rose is going to miss a considerable chunk of next season the reason why he was so low on your list when quite frankly this thread has nothing to do with next season?

Honestly I had a tough time not picking curry here but IMO he didn't give us a large enough sample size to prove his worth. If we compare him to Lowry through the first 20+ games of the season it would be a no contest.

I find it extremely ironic that you went on arguing with me for so long as to why Rose shouldn't be up there but now you think Curry should be :confused:

At not point last season did any other PG plot named Chris Paul play a better PG than Derrick Rose when he was healthy, last season we saw Lowry play better than Curry same for Irving as well. In Lawson's case he got the edge for leading a playoff team in the west as their best player and also taking him game to another level in the post season.

Through ~25 games it was no contest between Curry and Lowry? Let's take a look at some simple numbers:

Curry: 16.5/4/6 +2.8 turnovers on 48.1% from the field (45% from 3).
Lowry: 15.6/5/8 +3.1 turnovers on 41.7% from the field (37% from 3).

No contest? C'mon now. And after that Lowry got hurt and was subsequently removed from the starting lineup upon his return.

The argument for me was centered more specifically on Rose V. Westbrook. Their production was highly similar, major differences being Westbrook having the edge in scoring/scoring efficiency and rebounding, Rose having it in playmaking. Couple that with the fact that Westbrook did it all the way through the regular season and into the finals without missing a game and Rose was consistently out before he tore his ligaments and it's a pretty easy decision. And yes, Rose currently being crippled and not even returning until later on next season at best factors in. Basically I rank them based on who would be best at the time of their next basketball game, and there's a couple guys at point I'm taking over Rose going forward.

Not the case for Curry and Lowry/Lawson for me. Steph was basically shut down by the Warriors in order to fully rest and just get the appropriate surgery with plenty of recovery time after. In reality, it should be strong coming back. It's also not a torn acl/mcl and he's not a guy who relies so heavily on his athleticism like Rose. Can't forget his back issues either. Rose is a mess. Westbrook's a monster who's never missed a game in his life. To me that was a clear/easy decision.

All that said, I AM a huge proponent of durability and if Steph does indeed miss a huge chunk of games again next year then he'll clearly fall out of the top ten.

GoPacers33
07-05-2012, 09:41 PM
uncle drew

the_jon
07-05-2012, 09:53 PM
I voted Kyrie, Lowry gets my next vote

aLau10
07-06-2012, 09:40 AM
Lowry at 8!

BSardogan
07-06-2012, 09:52 AM
Lowry should win this so easily. Irving may have the better drive & finish at the rim, but everything else Lowry wins.