PDA

View Full Version : Dusty Baker upset with Tony LaRussa regarding All-Star Roster



Jeffy25
07-02-2012, 12:15 AM
SAN FRANCISCO - Who did not make the All-Star Team for the Reds overshadowed who made it. Joey Votto was voted in by the fans. Aroldis Chapman was voted in by the players. And Jay Bruce made it on the coaches' selection.

Brandon Phillips and Johnny Cueto did not make it. Reds manager Dusty Baker directly blamed Tony La Russa, who will manage the National League team, for that. He thinks brawl between the Reds and the Cardinals led to the snub.

"I'm happy for the guys who made it big time, especially for Chapman," Baker said. "You figured that Joey would make it. We knew Jay had an outside chance. You also figured that Johnny Cueto and Brandon Phillips had a great chance. I don't understand that one.

http://m.cincinnati.com/enquirertopnews/article?a=2012307010061&f=880

LaRussa's response


La Russa said, "If Dusty had been more interested in Cueto being on the team, then he wouldn’t be pitching him on Sunday. Cueto probably would be on the team if he wasn’t pitching Sunday.
“The comments Dusty made clearly disappoint me and are attacking my integrity. The All-Star experience is too important to let anything stand in the way of a decision like that .
“No way am I going to penalize anybody for any kind of past history. The fact is that Cueto is going to be pitching on Sunday. Some other day, he’s probably on the team.”
La Russa did take Reds outfielder Jay Bruce over Matt Holliday as a reserve. In fact, La Russa chose nobody from the Cardinals to the current 33-man squad.


Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/la-russa-baker-spar-over-all-star-team/article_bc36436e-c3a0-11e1-9f6f-001a4bcf6878.html#ixzz1zR3HikWI



Phillips is maybe the 4th best NL second basemen this year, behind Altuve, Hill, and Uggla. He wasn't deserving.

And Ron Washington selected 4 Rangers! Harrison, Nathan, Kinsler, and Andrus. I can see Andrus....

Cueto is possibly deserving, but he wasn't the biggest snub, poor Greinke :(



Baker's comments are a little....unjustified I think.

popo85
07-02-2012, 12:18 AM
Frieri and Downs both having better years then Nathan, smh Washington...

VRP723
07-02-2012, 12:19 AM
If I was a manager I'd stack the roster with my own players. I get why people ***** about it, but why the **** should Ron Washington care?

popo85
07-02-2012, 12:38 AM
Just stating my own opinion on how good my teams bullpen has been and deserves to be in, no **** Sherlock Washington doesn't care.

VRP723
07-02-2012, 12:42 AM
I wasn't talking directly to you, moreso the endless barrage of people that complain about managers "taking their own guys" every season.

T 980
07-02-2012, 12:42 AM
Dusty Baker. I remember that guy...

Jeffy25
07-02-2012, 12:42 AM
Baker added


“A snub like that looks bad. Johnny and Brandon were at the center of a skirmish between us and the Cardinals. Some of the Cardinals who aren’t there anymore are making some of the selections.”

And none of the people making these decisions took any Cardinals, and they took Jay Bruce!


what a freaking dumbass.

ManningToTyree
07-02-2012, 12:45 AM
ohhh Dusty

UPRock
07-02-2012, 12:48 AM
So LaRusaa didn't select Lynn?

Jeffy25
07-02-2012, 12:49 AM
So LaRusaa didn't select Lynn?

Nope, he was voted in by the players 10 days ago.

dannyh1469
07-02-2012, 01:39 AM
This kind of funny

******2017
07-02-2012, 01:43 AM
Who exactly did LaRussa all pick?

Freel for prez
07-02-2012, 01:45 AM
http://m.cincinnati.com/enquirertopnews/article?a=2012307010061&f=880

LaRussa's response





Phillips is maybe the 4th best NL second basemen this year, behind Altuve, Hill, and Uggla. He wasn't deserving.

And Ron Washington selected 4 Rangers! Harrison, Nathan, Kinsler, and Andrus. I can see Andrus....

Cueto is possibly deserving, but he wasn't the biggest snub, poor Greinke :(



Baker's comments are a little....unjustified I think.

Phillips maybe the 4th best NL 2B? No way dude! He literally has double the stats Altuve has, Uggla is batting about 60 points lower than him. Hill is the only comparable player. Not to mention Phillips can run circles around every one of those guys defensively. Phillips makes plays Uggla cant even fathom. But its the all star game and defense clearly doesn't matter...remember that one ASG with Uggla playing 2nd? Good lord I've seen little leaguers field the ball better. Cueto is without a DOUBT a snub, poor Grienke? Cueto has a better ERA! Without a doubt there is something to this, BP called the Cards some names and Cueto knocked Larue out of the game, he definitely didn't want them in the ASG, he chose Bruce (which made NO sense) only to cover it all up...some of you are blind

dodgerdave
07-02-2012, 01:48 AM
Chris Capuano got snubbed big time.

Dr Cyanide 28
07-02-2012, 02:05 AM
lol dusty baker is such a ****. i will never forget him sitting there with a big stupid grin on his face in 2003 with that stupid toothpick in his mouth with his Cubs being ahead of the Marlins 3-2 and having Prior and Wood pitching the next two games at home. That cocky son of a ***** sitting up there saying it was in the bag. I specifically remember him saying in the post game 5 interview "I'm looking forward to going back to the World Series" How'd that work out for ya you dumb ****?

Giannis94
07-02-2012, 02:12 AM
better question is:
Why the **** didnt that little ***** put greinke on the squad......

Jeffy25
07-02-2012, 02:20 AM
Phillips maybe the 4th best NL 2B? No way dude! He literally has double the stats Altuve has, Uggla is batting about 60 points lower than him. Hill is the only comparable player. Not to mention Phillips can run circles around every one of those guys defensively. Phillips makes plays Uggla cant even fathom. But its the all star game and defense clearly doesn't matter...remember that one ASG with Uggla playing 2nd? Good lord I've seen little leaguers field the ball better. Cueto is without a DOUBT a snub, poor Grienke? Cueto has a better ERA! Without a doubt there is something to this, BP called the Cards some names and Cueto knocked Larue out of the game, he definitely didn't want them in the ASG, he chose Bruce (which made NO sense) only to cover it all up...some of you are blind


Aaron Hill - .373 wOBA, 131 wRC+
Jose Altuve - .350 wOBA, 121 wRC+
Brandon Phillips - .337 wOBA, 109 wRC+
Dan Uggla - .336 wOBA, 112 wRC+
Omar Infante - .336 wOBa, 109 wRC+

As for defense
Darwin Barney - 19 runs saved
Brandon Phillips - 9 runs saved
Dan Uggla - 6 runs saved
Omar Infante - 4 runs saved
Danny Espinoza - 2 runs saved
Aaron Hill - -1 run saved
Jose Altuve - -7 runs saved

Phillips doesn't clearly belong in, but he has an argument. I would say he is safely the 3rd to 5th best second basemen this season.

You think there is something to this, and yet TLR didn't invite a single Cardinals player, and invited Jay Bruce who doesn't belong in over Jay Bruce. But choosing Bruce is covering up? You can quit with the conspiracy theories.


Btw, Greinke is leading baseball in FIP and xFIP. More strike outs than Cueto, and does it with less walks, a better ground ball rate, and keeps the ball in the yard better.

Cueto is beating Greinke in one thing, leaving men on base, which is helping him allow less runs, their WHIPs are basically the same.

GA16Angels
07-02-2012, 02:35 AM
Has Dusty Baker always been like this or is he getting more annoying and stupid in his old age? While I may agree that Phillips has played better than someone like Uggla, it made more sense for Uggla to make the team since the Braves' only other all-star was a relief pitcher. Seriously, there are more then 35 players in each league who are deserving of making the all-star team. Not everyone who's having a good season can make it. If it were all truly based on stats and talent level, the rule that each team must have at least one all-star wouldn't exist. Baker needs to get his head out of his ***.

As for Washington, I can understand him bringing Nathan, Andrus, and Harrison. But bringing Kinsler was pretty lame. Should have been Jason Kipnis.

Jeffy25
07-02-2012, 02:37 AM
Well ****, Baker still thinks you need speed at the top of the lineup at that batting average is more important than obp or any other offensive statistic.

LASportsFan1996
07-02-2012, 02:44 AM
Chris Capuano got snubbed big time.

:nod:

******2017
07-02-2012, 02:51 AM
There's a lot ob bad blood between Dusty and Tony. I've never had a problem with Dusty from a Brewers fan prospective. This is just his bad blood and also being outspoken with standing up for his players. I've always hated Tony because of the way he acts as a manager. He's nothing to be proud of or defend. He's successful but he's not the epitome of class. I won't judge him for this though until I see a list of who he actually selected because I know he has the responsibility to make sure every team has a representative.

Phillips could deserve the ASG as much as Uggla. I know it's an old fashioned stat but a .238 hitter doesn't deserve to be an All-Star. Yes, I'm saying Bautista doesn't deserve to be their either. Bautista is all power and that's it. Can't go wrong with Altuve and Hill is a bigger snub than Phillips. Cueto on the other hand is mind boggling but like I said, I don't know how the players were selected beyond fan voting.

I really don't know why they don't expand to 40 players (20 hitters/20 pitchers) and if 5 are hurt or ineligible to pitch, don't replace them. It would cut down the snubs greatly because there's usually 3 or 4 entirely deserving guys that get snubbed.

GA16Angels
07-02-2012, 03:05 AM
The All-Star roster does not need to be expanded anymore. Not everyone can be a winner and it's impossiblle to make everyone happy.

RTL
07-02-2012, 05:05 AM
No way is Uggla better than Phillips at 2B. That said, Dusty's complaints also have no merit.

metsfaninSTL
07-02-2012, 10:16 AM
what a douche

Pinstripe pride
07-02-2012, 10:24 AM
baker is just upset he cant sdestroy pitchers arms at the all satr game

Skippy15
07-02-2012, 10:53 AM
Baker is whining because his players didn't make it, he has alot of nerve when Cueto is pitching Sunday, rule says Cueto could have pitched 1 inning in the game because of it, but why exactly would you want your pitcher, to pitch on short rest, in an exhibition game? It's just idiotic.

Phillips you could make a case as somewhat deserving but he wasn't such a major snub that it should be major news. I mean if Tony LaRussa had take Tyler Greene or Daniel Descalso on the team for a 2B I'd understand the outrage but it's not like there isn't solid choices ahead of him on the roster. A small snubbing, but nothing new.

And, like I saw whining Reds fans *****ing about on twitter that Phillips and Cueto were robbed the honor of being all stars and suggesting they name Cueto and then change to a new pitcher. Why? Why go through that just to go out of their way to name him an all star? If Red's fans wanna ***** then ***** at yourselves and at eachother. There was a thing called fan voting. If you wanted Phillips in why weren't they out voting him in? I live an hour from Cincy and the only thing I ever saw was #VoteReds on the game. The announcers even rarely brought it up. Cincy has no one to be pissy about except themselves. It's apparent LaRussa, The fans didn't think they were deserving.

Plus if anyone should be upset it should be that Pablo Sandavol is starting of David Wright, Posey over Ruiz or Molina. Giant's fans did work

GoCrew5
07-02-2012, 11:11 AM
Player A:

9-2, 2.82 ERA, 102.0 IP, 22 BB, 102 K, 2.21 FIP, 2.71 XFIP, 3.6 WAR

Player B:

10-4, 3.08 ERA, 111.0 IP, 28 BB, 111 K, 3.27 FIP, 3.23 XFIP, 2.4 WAR

Player C:

10-4, 3.62 ERA, 97.0 IP, 34 BB, 98 K, 3.42 FIP, 3.47 XFIP, 1.7 WAR

Player D:

9-4, 2.87 ERA, 94.0 IP, 19 BB, 66 K, 3.29 FIP, 3.76 XFIP, 2.1 WAR

Player E:

9-4, 2.26 ERA, 107.2 IP, 25 BB, 79 K, 3.11 FIP, 3.76 XFIP, 2.6 WAR


Player A= Zack Greinke (not selected)
Player B= Cole Hamels
Player C= Lance Lynn
Player D= Wade Miley
Player E= Johnny Cueto

TLR said Greinke wasn't selected because he pitches on Sunday which isn't true. Greinke pitches tonight and on Saturday.

It's a true shame that two of the best pitchers out of that last didn't make it even though they clearly have the better #'s, and they just happened to be on the rival teams of the Cardinals.

******2017
07-02-2012, 11:19 AM
Regardless of when they pitch, you should still select the deserving players first and be conscious of deserving players that will be available.

akagiredsuns
07-02-2012, 11:32 AM
lol dusty baker is such a ****. i will never forget him sitting there with a big stupid grin on his face in 2003 with that stupid toothpick in his mouth with his Cubs being ahead of the Marlins 3-2 and having Prior and Wood pitching the next two games at home. That cocky son of a ***** sitting up there saying it was in the bag. I specifically remember him saying in the post game 5 interview "I'm looking forward to going back to the World Series" How'd that work out for ya you dumb ****?

Grow up that was 9 years ago already. What's done is done. Get over it. :facepalm:

Method28
07-02-2012, 11:44 AM
Dust these nuts Mr. Baker

TS8821
07-02-2012, 11:45 AM
Has Dusty Baker always been like this or is he getting more annoying and stupid in his old age? While I may agree that Phillips has played better than someone like Uggla, it made more sense for Uggla to make the team since the Braves' only other all-star was a relief pitcher. Seriously, there are more then 35 players in each league who are deserving of making the all-star team. Not everyone who's having a good season can make it. If it were all truly based on stats and talent level, the rule that each team must have at least one all-star wouldn't exist. Baker needs to get his head out of his ***.

As for Washington, I can understand him bringing Nathan, Andrus, and Harrison. But bringing Kinsler was pretty lame. Should have been Jason Kipnis.

Yeah.. Kinsler was actually voted in by the players and managers, not "taken" by wash

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/texas-rangers/post/_/id/4886908/a-record-7-rangers-headed-to-all-star-game

PapaPilo00
07-02-2012, 11:47 AM
Greinke did deserve to be in the game and Cueto has been putting up some solid numbers but Greinke being snubbed is obviously a bigger story lol. I mean TLR chose more Reds than Cardinals, I'm just saying

PapaPilo00
07-02-2012, 11:48 AM
Regardless of when they pitch, you should still select the deserving players first and be conscious of deserving players that will be available.

And even though it gets confusing this way I completely agree. I still think Cueto is a bubble pick to be on the squad

ManRam
07-02-2012, 11:51 AM
Yeah...Phillips is a justifiable snub. Cueto is one of a few snubs that all have a decent claim...like the SF pitchers, Greinke, McDonald etc. But there isn't room for all of them.

I don't think there's much to be upset about :shrug:

******2017
07-02-2012, 11:53 AM
And even though it gets confusing this way I completely agree. I still think Cueto is a bubble pick to be on the squad
If they keep going down this road where they leave guys off the roster because of the day they pitch, a few guys are going to start losing multiple ASG selections on their resume and if it was me, even if I couldn't play, I would still want the recognition.

PapaPilo00
07-02-2012, 11:55 AM
If they keep going down this road where they leave guys off the roster because of the day they pitch, a few guys are going to start losing multiple ASG selections on their resume and if it was me, even if I couldn't play, I would still want the recognition.

True. I'm 100% with you on this one... BUT the fact remains that Cueto was a bubble pick to begin with so its easier for players/managers to pick a person not pictching on that Sunday ya know (but it does suck for him cause that was the deciding factor)

redbird89
07-02-2012, 12:07 PM
Dusty is making a big thing out of nothing. Like La Russa said, Cueto pitched Sunday, so how can he also pitch in the All-Star game?

d79cheese
07-02-2012, 12:30 PM
Until they either get rid of the fan vote or the every team needs to be represented rule, there are always going to be significant snubs. Not sure why it is a big surprise to everyone each year

d79cheese
07-02-2012, 12:31 PM
Dusty is making a big thing out of nothing. Like La Russa said, Cueto pitched Sunday, so how can he also pitch in the All-Star game?

Technically they changed that rule this year. A pitcher pitching on Sunday can chose to pitch, but they can only:

1) Pitch 1 inning

2) Pitch a certain amount of pitches (not sure the exact number).

Basically, it is whicever one comes first. Either they complete the inning and they are done, or they hit that limit during that inning and they must come out.

Jeffy25
07-02-2012, 01:09 PM
Player A:

9-2, 2.82 ERA, 102.0 IP, 22 BB, 102 K, 2.21 FIP, 2.71 XFIP, 3.6 WAR

Player B:

10-4, 3.08 ERA, 111.0 IP, 28 BB, 111 K, 3.27 FIP, 3.23 XFIP, 2.4 WAR

Player C:

10-4, 3.62 ERA, 97.0 IP, 34 BB, 98 K, 3.42 FIP, 3.47 XFIP, 1.7 WAR

Player D:

9-4, 2.87 ERA, 94.0 IP, 19 BB, 66 K, 3.29 FIP, 3.76 XFIP, 2.1 WAR

Player E:

9-4, 2.26 ERA, 107.2 IP, 25 BB, 79 K, 3.11 FIP, 3.76 XFIP, 2.6 WAR


Player A= Zack Greinke (not selected)
Player B= Cole Hamels
Player C= Lance Lynn
Player D= Wade Miley
Player E= Johnny Cueto

TLR said Greinke wasn't selected because he pitches on Sunday which isn't true. Greinke pitches tonight and on Saturday.

It's a true shame that two of the best pitchers out of that last didn't make it even though they clearly have the better #'s, and they just happened to be on the rival teams of the Cardinals.

Seriously, he didn't even take a single Cardinal!

How can we call it nepotism when he didn't select anyone from his own team?
Ron Washington loaded up on his own players, TLR took Jay Bruce we know for certain.

Every team had to have a representative, so someone like Huston Street took a spot from McDonald, Greinke, or Cueto.

TLR could have taken Greinke or Cueto despite the whole Sunday thing, that isn't a good enough excuse, but he selected this team to win. I know that sounds silly, but that's what he wants.

PapaPilo00
07-02-2012, 02:04 PM
So who really snubbed Phillips? The blame must be placed on the Reds' fans themselves, who failed to make a concerted effort to elect the best second baseman in the N.L.



I think this was the best explaination of the situation from Doug Poe at Yahoo!

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/reds-fans-look-mirror-not-larussa-star-snubs-163400072--mlb.html

redbird89
07-02-2012, 04:53 PM
National League All-Star manager Tony La Russa says he left Reds right-hander Johnny Cueto off the roster because Cueto is slated to be a "Sunday starter" and thus won't be amply rested before Tuesday's exhibition in Kansas City. As Trent Rosecrans has already pointed out, this is pretty flimsy logic on La Russa's part and leaves him open to charges that he's carrying a grudge.

Now the already thick plot is thickening further. John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer reports that Cueto's agent Bryce Dixon has already contacted the Players Association and that the filing of a formal grievance on behalf of Cueto is a distinct possibility. “I said, ‘I'm not one to complain about All-Star snubs, but what Tony said was the last straw,'” Dixon said. “Basically, (La Russa) messed up.”

Fay notes that Cueto stands to earn a $25,000 bonus if he makes the All-Star team. It's worth remembering, though, that normal attrition usually opens up multiple spots this year, so Cueto might eventually be added to the roster without having to appeal.

Considering that he ranks fourth in the NL in ERA and seventh in innings pitched, he certainly deserves to be in Kansas City.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/19463969/will-johnny-cueto-appeal-allstar-snub

If you can file a grievance for not being picked then a few players could file grievances every year. It sets a bad precedent.

I also don't understand why what La Russa replied was so outrageous. Cueto can only pitch one inning, and does Dusty really want his star pitcher pitching on short rest? If not, then why get him to the All-Star Game, other than so that Cueto can get his $25,000 bonus. It would be a waste of a roster spot to have a pitcher who is so limited.

I don't think Cueto can prove any malice here.

Jeffy25
07-02-2012, 05:07 PM
The three pitchers that TLR picked were

Kershaw, Hamels, and Wade Miley (the D'Backs only representative)

And Phillips wasn't picked because Uggla was picked by the fans.

And he picked Bruce over Holliday, despite Holliday playing better than Bruce.

whitesoxfan83
07-02-2012, 05:08 PM
La Russa did take Reds outfielder Jay Bruce over Matt Holliday as a reserve. In fact, La Russa chose nobody from the Cardinals to the current 33-man squad.

^End of Dusty's bogus *** point...

It's LaRussa's last game Dusty, put a ****ing sock in it you Prior-killing monster.

Jeffy25
07-02-2012, 05:11 PM
Cueto says he is going to 'appeal' the snub

how on earth do you appeal a snub?

d79cheese
07-02-2012, 05:26 PM
lol....




“I see that I have great numbers,” he said. “I thought the way I pitched this year, I’d have a chance to go to the All-Star Game. I don’t know what happened. I don’t if know the manager of All-Star Game is pissed at me because I went out with one of his girlfriends.”

“I don’t know if they base their selection on the brawl. That’s not the way it should be... They should pick and choose players by their numbers.”

-Cueto

******2017
07-02-2012, 05:30 PM
:laugh:

jlohm1
07-02-2012, 06:13 PM
Tony is an arrogant *** though. i really have no respect for him. his excuse that the reason Cueto didn't make it is a very poor excuse. obviously Dusty could have and would have moved him in the rotation if he was selected, but until it is announced, why would Dusty rearrange the entire rotation "just in case" Cueto made the all star roster. obviously, he wouldn't have made it either way, so i'm honestly glad Dusty didn't rearrange the rotation.


i honestly think that some changes have to made about the all star. first of all, it shouldn't determine who get's home field advantage in the WS. and after Ron Washington selected 4 Rangers, i can now see why managers should be more limited to who is selected. i also think they should move the player voting up to end the same day as the fans voting.

redbird89
07-02-2012, 06:31 PM
I'm not a fan of the All-Star Game determining anything really.

Also, Tony isn't exactly warm and cuddly, but I don't think this was about the brawl. I think he has a legitimate excuse for not selecting Cueto. Would Dusty really want Cueto pitching on 3 days' rest? If Dusty would not want Cueto pitching, then taking Cueto would be a waste of a roster spot. It would suck to have Cueto pitch for an inning or less and then have to take him out. I realize All-Star pitchers don't pitch long, but that still doesn't seem like it would be very productive.

This whole thing is kind of ironic, considering we were accused of being the whiners in 2010. It's Cueto and Dusty whining now.

Some more info

after the fan vote and the player vote La Russa had to use four of his nine selections (yeah…he only got to hand-pick nine players) on at least one player from each of the Arizona Diamondbacks, Florida Marlins, Philadelphia Phillies, and San Diego Padres. So that left TLR with five non-required picks. Assuming Carlos Ruiz would be his automatic Phillies pick—because a) he and Yadier Molina are legitimately the top two catchers in the league this year and should have been voted as such, and b) there’s no way TLR would go to this game with only two catchers—that means La Russa used two of his five picks on fellow Phils Cole Hamels and Jonathon Papelbon. The other three completely free choice picks were used on Clayton Kershaw of the LA Dodgers, Ian Desmond of the Washington Nationals, and Jay Bruce of the Cincinnati Reds.

http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/STLSports/STLCardinals/tabid/91/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/9066/The-Tony-La-Russa-All-Star-Conspiracy.aspx

The players didn't pick Cueto either


There is a "Sunday Pitcher Rule," in the new collective bargaining agreement which neither La Russa nor an official from the commissioner’s office said that he violated.

"I know the rule," said La Russa, tersely.

Major League Baseball senior vice president Katy Feeney said that the fact that Cueto was scheduled to pitch on Sunday actually was well down the list of considerations.


Feeney said that pitching on Sunday "maybe was the final consideration," for a pitcher not to be included on the club. "That’s just one of the reasons," Feeney said.

"We had to get people from all the teams represented and at a certain point you just run out of room. Every team has somebody left off, no matter how you do it," Feeney said.


Feeney was emphatic that the Cincinnati-Cardinals brawl of 2010 was not brought up in the discussions she had with La Russa for several days last week.

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_497d3e7a-c488-11e1-a6d1-0019bb30f31a.html#ixzz1zVXFkf6v


I admit, Tony might hold a grudge against Cueto. Tony is known for holding grudges. However, I don't really think that factored into his decision. I don't think Cueto has a leg to stand on.

******2017
07-02-2012, 06:40 PM
It would probably depend on how much he pitches on Sunday. Even if he couldn't pitch Tuesday, they have other guys that can be there to play in his place. You should pick the guys that deserve to be there in the first place, not the guys that are able to based on their pitching schedule. The Brewers specifically changed Greinke to start Saturday instead of Sunday because he wanted to pitch in the All Star game and should be there anyway. Greinke has to be a top 5 starter in all of baseball this year and he's not even on the team.

redbird89
07-02-2012, 06:43 PM
La Russa can't include everybody, though. Every year somebody gets snubbed. It doesn't mean that there's any grudges behind it.

******2017
07-02-2012, 06:45 PM
Greinke is better than Hammels and Kershaw :shrug:

Jeffy25
07-02-2012, 06:49 PM
If I wanted to win one game, I would be adding Greinke to my roster, and not necessarily Hamels.

Shlumpledink
07-02-2012, 06:53 PM
It's just an all star game. People get snubbed all the time, and people start the game when they're not supposed to. Its a popularity contest, it happens in every sport. It sucks but there isn't anything anyone can do about it. We can complain about it all we want, but it is going to happen again next year and the year after that. The only difference is a couple players snubbed happened to be in a fight with the manager of the team. It is not exactly a clear cut case that they should have been picked, so quit crying and watch the game halfheartedly like everyone else.

******2017
07-02-2012, 06:55 PM
I know they're not there to make stories but Greinke in the ASG in the park where it all began would have been a cool one, especially if he were to be named the starter.

Jeffy25
07-02-2012, 06:56 PM
La Russa actually has a fairly legitimate alibi for leaving Phillips and Cueto off the roster. As Danny Knobler of CBS Sports explains, after the fan vote and the player vote La Russa had to use four of his nine selections (yeah…he only got to hand-pick nine players) on at least one player from each of the Arizona Diamondbacks, Florida Marlins, Philadelphia Phillies, and San Diego Padres. So that left TLR with five non-required picks. Assuming Carlos Ruiz would be his automatic Phillies pick—because a) he and Yadier Molina are legitimately the top two catchers in the league this year and should have been voted as such, and b) there’s no way TLR would go to this game with only two catchers—that means La Russa used two of his five picks on fellow Phils Cole Hamels and Jonathon Papelbon. The other three completely free choice picks were used on Clayton Kershaw of the LA Dodgers, Ian Desmond of the Washington Nationals, and Jay Bruce of the Cincinnati Reds.

Seriously Dusty.....seriously.

So he had to get a guy from the Padres, Phillies, Marlins (Miami, not Florida) and the D'Backs.

He had to add another catcher (Ruiz is a perfect fit), he needed another shortstop (Reyes hasn't played well enough to be there and I personally probably would have taken Jed Lowrie instead of Desmond) and he still only has two third basemen.

He had to add a certain number of pitchers, and an outfielder. And he still took Bruce over Holliday. Holliday has killed Bruce in everything this year, including the fan vote. No one can scream nepotism if he doesn't take Matt Holliday one of his favorite players.

This is the same manager that pinch hit Dimitri Young instead of Pujols in the 07 ASG and left Pujols as the only player on the NL bench unused.

And Dusty seriously says these things to the media? What a dumbass.

utl768
07-02-2012, 07:44 PM
**** cueto

if any nl pitcher belongs on the team its johan santana

d79cheese
07-02-2012, 07:53 PM
**** cueto

if any nl pitcher belongs on the team its johan santana

He wasn't even the biggest left handed snub. Bumgarner deserved it more over Johan

ESaady
07-02-2012, 08:58 PM
So much hate for Dusty hahah

dannyh1469
07-03-2012, 12:38 AM
I'm surprised no one has criticized Ron Washington for picking his guy joe Nathan instead of frieri or Broxton, as well as putting Darvish in the vote in knowing that Darvish will most likely win because he will have the Japan voters

nithanyo
07-03-2012, 01:04 AM
Ron washington is a ****in tool bag. Seriously? Napoli and Kinsler over guys like Encarnasion? To top it off he adds Darvish to the vote in spot. Not like all of Japan is going to vote for him

Freel for prez
07-03-2012, 02:45 AM
Just b/c Larussa put Bruce on the team doesnt justify anything. He had to choose a Red, so he chose the guy he has no beef with. Bruce makes NO sense to be in the ASG hes batting like .250 and cant catch a fly ball. Clearly there is something to this, you dont think Larussa thinks about BP calling the entire cards team a bunch of lil B's? Or Cueto kicking Larue in the face and ending his career? Your nuts. There was without a doubt something to this. I'm also done with people saying Dusty is a whiner...I dont really care for Dusty but to defend Larussa makes no sense...the guy used to whine about smoke from our smokestacks getting in the pitchers way??? Well we have to hit and pitch in it too Tony...Dumb@$$

Jeffy25
07-03-2012, 02:58 AM
Just b/c Larussa put Bruce on the team doesnt justify anything. He had to choose a Red, so he chose the guy he has no beef with.

What?!?!?!

No he most certainly did not.

Votto and Chapman were already on the team.


Bruce makes NO sense to be in the ASG hes batting like .250 and cant catch a fly ball. Clearly there is something to this, you dont think Larussa thinks about BP calling the entire cards team a bunch of lil B's?
Or Cueto kicking Larue in the face and ending his career? Your nuts. There was without a doubt something to this.
I don't tend to believe in conspiracy theories.

He didn't have to take Bruce, he chose Bruce probably because he wanted a power left handed bat for a late game situation honestly.


I'm also done with people saying Dusty is a whiner...I dont really care for Dusty but to defend Larussa makes no sense...the guy used to whine about smoke from our smokestacks getting in the pitchers way??? Well we have to hit and pitch in it too Tony...Dumb@$$
You realize that the Cardinals have constantly gotten flacked for their 'whining' and Baker is getting on SportsCenter saying his players got 'snubbed' because as he thinks 'it relates to a fight two years' on a team that TLR is no longer affiliated with when he only had 5 guys he could choose, and somehow the expectation is that he would choose two guys that were bubble candidates? And we are the whiners?

Calm down with the theories, it's an extreme over-reaction to two players not being picked. EVERY team has at least one player that all of their fans feel got snubbed, even the Giants who out-voted every other teams fans by the ***-ton. The Reds are the only one's taking their complaints and making them public.

giants73756
07-03-2012, 04:12 AM
Just b/c Larussa put Bruce on the team doesnt justify anything. He had to choose a Red, so he chose the guy he has no beef with. Bruce makes NO sense to be in the ASG hes batting like .250 and cant catch a fly ball. Clearly there is something to this, you dont think Larussa thinks about BP calling the entire cards team a bunch of lil B's? Or Cueto kicking Larue in the face and ending his career? Your nuts. There was without a doubt something to this. I'm also done with people saying Dusty is a whiner...I dont really care for Dusty but to defend Larussa makes no sense...the guy used to whine about smoke from our smokestacks getting in the pitchers way??? Well we have to hit and pitch in it too Tony...Dumb@$$
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Phillips maybe the 4th best NL 2B? No way dude! He literally has double the stats Altuve has, Uggla is batting about 60 points lower than him. Hill is the only comparable player. Not to mention Phillips can run circles around every one of those guys defensively. Phillips makes plays Uggla cant even fathom. But its the all star game and defense clearly doesn't matter...remember that one ASG with Uggla playing 2nd? Good lord I've seen little leaguers field the ball better. Cueto is without a DOUBT a snub, poor Grienke? Cueto has a better ERA! Without a doubt there is something to this, BP called the Cards some names and Cueto knocked Larue out of the game, he definitely didn't want them in the ASG, he chose Bruce (which made NO sense) only to cover it all up...some of you are blind
Wow you really love to cherry pick stats. Yes, Phillips has more homers and RBIs than Altuve, but Altuve kills him in AVG/OBP/SLG.

If you want to look at basic pitching stats, Vogelsong is more deserving than Cueto. They have the same ERA, but Vogelsong has the better WHIP and winning percentage. If you want to look at advanced stats, Greinke blows all of these borderline choices out of the water.


I'm not a fan of the All-Star Game determining anything really.

Also, Tony isn't exactly warm and cuddly, but I don't think this was about the brawl. I think he has a legitimate excuse for not selecting Cueto. Would Dusty really want Cueto pitching on 3 days' rest? If Dusty would not want Cueto pitching, then taking Cueto would be a waste of a roster spot. It would suck to have Cueto pitch for an inning or less and then have to take him out. I realize All-Star pitchers don't pitch long, but that still doesn't seem like it would be very productive.

This whole thing is kind of ironic, considering we were accused of being the whiners in 2010. It's Cueto and Dusty whining now.

Some more info


http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/STLSports/STLCardinals/tabid/91/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/9066/The-Tony-La-Russa-All-Star-Conspiracy.aspx

The players didn't pick Cueto either

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_497d3e7a-c488-11e1-a6d1-0019bb30f31a.html#ixzz1zVXFkf6v


I admit, Tony might hold a grudge against Cueto. Tony is known for holding grudges. However, I don't really think that factored into his decision. I don't think Cueto has a leg to stand on.
This explains it very well :clap:


The three pitchers that TLR picked were

Kershaw, Hamels, and Wade Miley (the D'Backs only representative)

And Phillips wasn't picked because Uggla was picked by the fans.

And he picked Bruce over Holliday, despite Holliday playing better than Bruce.
I guess the Reds were expecting La Russa to select Cueto, Bruce, and Phillips with his only three flexible picks.

Dr Cyanide 28
07-03-2012, 11:22 AM
Grow up that was 9 years ago already. What's done is done. Get over it. :facepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffUCnwh_KQc
:moon:

PapaPilo00
07-03-2012, 11:26 AM
I guess the Reds were expecting La Russa to select Cueto, Bruce, and Phillips with his only three flexible picks.

This made me laugh too loud at work lol
:clap:

Dr Cyanide 28
07-03-2012, 11:30 AM
like most have said. grienke should have been selected cueto is close to all star worthy, but almost all the guys on the roster are more deserving AND quite a few that didnt make it are more deserving

Dr Cyanide 28
07-03-2012, 11:34 AM
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/22900131.jpg

jlohm1
07-03-2012, 11:49 AM
I guess the Reds were expecting La Russa to select Cueto, Bruce, and Phillips with his only three flexible picks.

to be honest, i really don't know why Bruce was selected. their are better options out there that he could have picked and didn't. but i do believe that TLR had to pick a Red, and he didn't want to pick one that he had a problem with, which would be Bruce. we all know he doesn't like Phillips and Cueto. but like one Reds fan said, "If Dusty Baker guides the Reds to a World Series this year you can bet the ranch that Chris Carpenter and Yadier Molina will get snubbed next year (even if they are deserving). That's baseball folks. Baker and LaRussa don't like each other. Why would we expect anything different?"

Brew Crew
07-03-2012, 12:00 PM
I hate La Russa..But this is such a dumb story and from what I've read on this non-story it looks like the Reds are just trying to start something.

Greinke pitches next on Saturday the 7th. If I'm La Russa, Ron Roenicke, or Brewers GM Doug Melvin, and the All-Star game is on the 10th, I wouldn't want Greinke going back out there just for one dumb inning when there are so many other guys who will be rested and well deserving of a nod.

The same thing for Cueto who is gonna pitch on the 8th. There is no reason for La Russa to put him on the squad when he'd risk injury, or the all-star game itself due to lack of rest.

Jeffy25
07-03-2012, 02:48 PM
I honestly think Bruce was taken because he was a left handed hitting outfielder that had solid numbers and good pop.

Bruce made sense when filling out a roster spot for a potential late inning batter against a righty reliever.

Cargo and LaHair are the only other two left handed hitters on the bench for the NL All Stars


Personally, that's why I think he was taken over Heyward, Bourn, and Holliday.

All three of those guys have better numbers than Bruce, but Bruce has that left handed hitting power.

That's what I think at least.

nyyfan555
07-03-2012, 03:03 PM
LaRussa comes off like a know-it-all, most likely due to his age and number of years in the game. Something definitely seems fishy about his choices considering their history. But the truth is that there is an advantage to managing the all star team and LaRussa is using that advantage. It provides yet another incentive (aside from being champs lol) for teams/managers to try harder to win the world series. Even if Baker has a point, he should try even more to win the world series so he can make the decisions next year.

gaughan333
07-03-2012, 03:29 PM
I don't get how anyone still cares who makes the game

stipe1280
07-03-2012, 03:36 PM
Maybe Dusty should focus on getting the Reds to a World Series and then he can pick the players he wants for the All-Star Game.

Jeffy25
07-03-2012, 03:56 PM
I don't get how anyone still cares who makes the game

When All-Star game appearances stop being used as a bar for how good a player is, especially in hall of fame voting.....then I will be inclined to agree with you.

But it matters because people still think it matters and allows it to affect their determinations and opinions on players.

nyyfan555
07-03-2012, 04:15 PM
When All-Star game appearances stop being used as a bar for how good a player is, especially in hall of fame voting.....then I will be inclined to agree with you.

But it matters because people still think it matters and allows it to affect their determinations and opinions on players.

It seems like you're lobbying for All Stars to be selected based on numbers and thus get elected to the HOF based on numbers. While there are bad picks for both, many controversial picks are made because of intangibles that numbers can never measure. They make a difference and will continue to be used when deciding to sign a player or elect him to the HOF. Sure there are better numbers out there than the ones we've used in the past, but baseball is more than a game of numbers. It is not fantasy baseball. Its real. For example, I would have preferred the Yankees signing Eric Chavez in 2004 (if he was healthy and didn't have the horrible injuries he has had) rather than A-rod because he has been bad for the morale/psyche/vibe of the team. Those things make a difference and cannot have a number assigned to them.

RTL
07-03-2012, 04:16 PM
When All-Star game appearances stop being used as a bar for how good a player is, especially in hall of fame voting.....then I will be inclined to agree with you.

But it matters because people still think it matters and allows it to affect their determinations and opinions on players.

I really don't think too many voters put much stock into AS appearances anymore. They realize the flawed system. They put more stock in real awards.

Jeffy25
07-03-2012, 04:36 PM
It seems like you're lobbying for All Stars to be selected based on numbers and thus get elected to the HOF based on numbers. While there are bad picks for both, many controversial picks are made because of intangibles that numbers can never measure. They make a difference and will continue to be used when deciding to sign a player or elect him to the HOF. Sure there are better numbers out there than the ones we've used in the past, but baseball is more than a game of numbers. It is not fantasy baseball. Its real. For example, I would have preferred the Yankees signing Eric Chavez in 2004 (if he was healthy and didn't have the horrible injuries he has had) rather than A-rod because he has been bad for the morale/psyche/vibe of the team. Those things make a difference and cannot have a number assigned to them.

On the scale of should we sign player A. You can give an amount to how much the players 'make-up' matters all you want.

Say 20%




:p


Either way, the numbers don't lie, they aren't made up. They are the facts that we can use to judge the game of baseball. Just like we use numbers to count money, do budgets, tell time, and understand space. You don't have to give all of your stock to the numbers, but it's painfully ignorant to ignore them.

And obviously, signing Chavez instead of A-Rod would have set the Yankees back quite a bit, and possibly lead to no 09 WS ring.

Every human action is measurable, I don't know if people realize that. Every single thing you do can be measured. Every single thing you feel though....not so much. Confidence, friendship, etc. No, can't really be measured (although very intelligent mathematicians have found several ways to begin). Like it or not, the intangibles of baseball while existing, can't outweigh the production of a ball players performances....and in a game that the goal is to win. I will take performance over heart. And what's funny...you can measure many of the 'heart' intangibles that people talk about...like hustle (track speed times to and from a position, base etc).

Having Lance Berkman in the dugout last year for the Cardinals was insanely valuable. But his bat in the lineup was far more valuable than the intangibles he provided us to help us win the World Series. Love the positive clubhouse guy. But having a guy carry a 1.000 OPS while playing right field on the best offense in baseball is more valuable. Because that's what leads to wins, the goal of the game.



I really don't think too many voters put much stock into AS appearances anymore. They realize the flawed system. They put more stock in real awards.

I certainly hope so.

but all awards should be ignored for the hall of fame voting anyway.

redbird89
07-04-2012, 03:24 AM
I don't think Cueto's grievance will really go anywhere. He really doesn't have any evidence that La Russa snubbed Cueto because of any grudge.

La Russa is easy to hate, especially if he is/was not your manager, however, Dusty isn't well-liked either. I think the court of public opinion is that neither manager is particularly likeable, and maybe Baker needs to quit complaining so much. It is ironic considering the "Whiny Birds" T-shirts from 2010.

I have a feeling that if Baker were managing the All-Star squad this year he would not have taken Yadi Molina, even though Molina is more than deserving.


Bud Selig, apparently, has absolved National League manager Tony La Russa for his snub of the Reds' Johnny Cueto. Speaking on a conference call Monday afternoon, Selig backed La Russa on his selection of the team.

"When you look at the list of pitchers, and I went over that with Tony, and I think in the end there were a lot of pitchers available. And I think in the end, they picked their strongest staffs," Selig said (via MLB.com). "Every year, there's always some struggles. We've had less controversy this year. Everybody would like to have all their players on, but in fairness to the Cincinnati Reds, they have three players on [the NL team], and that's a strong showing."

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/19466350/bud-selig-defends-tony-la-russas-selections-for-all-star-game

In other words, MLB doesn't really see merit in the Reds' complaints.

One thing I don't understand is that some say La Russa violated the CBA by citing Cueto pitching Sunday as one reason he didn't take him. However, that was just one reason. Maybe Cueto just wasn't a good fit, and isn't a waste of a roster spot to take a pitcher who can only pitch one inning? Sure, Cueto has been great this year, but other pitchers have been close to the same. You can't take them all.

I'm sure picking All-Star players is like any other selection process. Somebody is going to complain, and somebody is going to be unhappy. That's just the way it is. If Dusty wins the World Series then I'm sure he'll snub a Cardinal or two.

Freel for prez
07-04-2012, 04:20 AM
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Wow you really love to cherry pick stats. Yes, Phillips has more homers and RBIs than Altuve, but Altuve kills him in AVG/OBP/SLG.

If you want to look at basic pitching stats, Vogelsong is more deserving than Cueto. They have the same ERA, but Vogelsong has the better WHIP and winning percentage. If you want to look at advanced stats, Greinke blows all of these borderline choices out of the water.


This explains it very well :clap:


I guess the Reds were expecting La Russa to select Cueto, Bruce, and Phillips with his only three flexible picks.

Bottom line is that you'd have to be a moron to choose Altuve or Uggla over BP...As well as Vogelsong over Cueto. Both have way more experience and upside. Vogelsong also pitches in a park twice the size of the Reds ballpark. Larussa didnt pick Votto, he was voted in. And to not have Chapman in would be even more crazy stupid. So he picks Bruce? And your guys theory is that he wants a LH power bat off the bench? Hmm cant find that anywhere now-a-days...So he chose Bruce b/c he knows only 2 Reds in the ASG would be absurd. So he chose Bruce who is the only likely candidate other than Cueto (kicked his catcher) and BP (called his team what they are) It has nothing to do with conspiracy theories, it has to do with respect. I agree Cueto is all star worthy but there are other candidates just as good but the BP situation is just plain dumb. .230 hitter starting at 2B? WTF

ramfan63074
07-04-2012, 09:59 AM
Oh well Baker can cry all he wants..He has always been a cry baby..He said Cueto would of been there if he didn't pitch on Sunday(Dusty Baker's fault) but wants to put the blame on TLR? As far as BP the guy has a bad attitude and is a poor sport no wonder why he didnt get the vote..If he was that good of a player he would of got the vote by the fans yes the AS game is about the stats on D and O but it is also about respect for yourself and everyone around you unlike what BP has..

jlohm1
07-04-2012, 12:43 PM
Oh well Baker can cry all he wants..He has always been a cry baby..He said Cueto would of been there if he didn't pitch on Sunday(Dusty Baker's fault) but wants to put the blame on TLR? As far as BP the guy has a bad attitude and is a poor sport no wonder why he didnt get the vote..If he was that good of a player he would of got the vote by the fans yes the AS game is about the stats on D and O but it is also about respect for yourself and everyone around you unlike what BP has..

how is that Dusty's fault? it's not worth rearranging the rotation before they announce the rosters. if Cueto did make the team, then Dusty would have moved him. it's actually against the rules not to select a player because of when they are scheduled to pitch.

giants73756
07-04-2012, 06:22 PM
Bottom line is that you'd have to be a moron to choose Altuve or Uggla over BP...As well as Vogelsong over Cueto. Both have way more experience and upside. Vogelsong also pitches in a park twice the size of the Reds ballpark. Larussa didnt pick Votto, he was voted in. And to not have Chapman in would be even more crazy stupid. So he picks Bruce? And your guys theory is that he wants a LH power bat off the bench? Hmm cant find that anywhere now-a-days...So he chose Bruce b/c he knows only 2 Reds in the ASG would be absurd. So he chose Bruce who is the only likely candidate other than Cueto (kicked his catcher) and BP (called his team what they are) It has nothing to do with conspiracy theories, it has to do with respect. I agree Cueto is all star worthy but there are other candidates just as good but the BP situation is just plain dumb. .230 hitter starting at 2B? WTF

It's not La Russa's fault Uggla and Altuve got in instead of Phillips. Phillips may very well be the best 2B, but Uggla got in from the fan vote and the Astros needed a player and Altuve was the best option. Make sure you know why players are selected before you spew this kind of ********.

Why is it a travesty is there were only 2 Reds in the game? Most teams don't get more than 2 players.

Jeffy25
07-04-2012, 10:14 PM
Bottom line is that you'd have to be a moron to choose Altuve or Uggla over BP...
Well, Altuve is out-hitting BP by a good amount and Uggla is almost identical.

Altuve - .343 wOBA, 117 wRC+
Uggla - .332 wOBA, 109 wRC+
Phillips - .333 wOBA, 106 wRC+

I think you have some seriously rose collared glasses on.


As well as Vogelsong over Cueto. Both have way more experience and upside.

Both who? Who are you referring to?

And what does upside have to do with an all-star selection?


Vogelsong also pitches in a park twice the size of the Reds ballpark.
That's why park adjusted numbers are soo great.



Larussa didnt pick Votto, he was voted in. And to not have Chapman in would be even more crazy stupid.
He didn't pick Chapman either, he was voted in by the players



So he picks Bruce? And your guys theory is that he wants a LH power bat off the bench? Hmm cant find that anywhere now-a-days...
Bruce has been one of the better hitting left handed power hitters in the NL this year that wasn't already on the team. It would at least explain the selection.

Are you now complaining that he chose Bruce over Cueto or Phillips?



So he chose Bruce b/c he knows only 2 Reds in the ASG would be absurd.
Uhh, no.

Prior to selecting Ian Desmond, the Nationals (who have a better record than the Reds) only have Gio Gonzalez and Stephen Strasburg in the all-star game.

What is so absurd about your team only having two all-stars on it's roster? It's not like the Reds run differential or talent level is this insane, elite level.


So he chose Bruce who is the only likely candidate other than Cueto (kicked his catcher) and BP (called his team what they are)
Whiny Birds....right?

Kettle looking awfully black, isn't it?

He didn't choose Bruce to somehow deflect attention from picking Cueto and BP. That is a huge grasp at non-existent straws.


It has nothing to do with conspiracy theories, it has to do with respect.
Are you re-reading these things after you write them?


I agree Cueto is all star worthy but there are other candidates just as good but the BP situation is just plain dumb. .230 hitter starting at 2B? WTF

There were already 2 second basemen, why take another one when you are better off taking a shortstop that can play second or third in a late game situation? Ian Desmond was picked over Brandon Phillips by Tony. Nobody else.

You want to tell me that it was stupid to pick Desmond over Phillips? Because that is what Tony did. And it was the right choice (I personally would have taken Jed Lowrie).

1. Desmond can play second, third, or short if you need him to.
2. Desmond has out-played BP all year long.

The fans voted for Uggla, you can't take that out on Tony. You don't seem to have much knowledge on who Tony picked and how many selections he had and what he had to do with those picks.

PapaPilo00
07-05-2012, 10:22 AM
Well, Altuve is out-hitting BP by a good amount and Uggla is almost identical.

Altuve - .343 wOBA, 117 wRC+
Uggla - .332 wOBA, 109 wRC+
Phillips - .333 wOBA, 106 wRC+

I think you have some seriously rose collared glasses on.



Both who? Who are you referring to?

And what does upside have to do with an all-star selection?


That's why park adjusted numbers are soo great.



He didn't pick Chapman either, he was voted in by the players



Bruce has been one of the better hitting left handed power hitters in the NL this year that wasn't already on the team. It would at least explain the selection.

Are you now complaining that he chose Bruce over Cueto or Phillips?



Uhh, no.

Prior to selecting Ian Desmond, the Nationals (who have a better record than the Reds) only have Gio Gonzalez and Stephen Strasburg in the all-star game.

What is so absurd about your team only having two all-stars on it's roster? It's not like the Reds run differential or talent level is this insane, elite level.


Whiny Birds....right?

Kettle looking awfully black, isn't it?

He didn't choose Bruce to somehow deflect attention from picking Cueto and BP. That is a huge grasp at non-existent straws.


Are you re-reading these things after you write them?



There were already 2 second basemen, why take another one when you are better off taking a shortstop that can play second or third in a late game situation? Ian Desmond was picked over Brandon Phillips by Tony. Nobody else.

You want to tell me that it was stupid to pick Desmond over Phillips? Because that is what Tony did. And it was the right choice (I personally would have taken Jed Lowrie).

1. Desmond can play second, third, or short if you need him to.
2. Desmond has out-played BP all year long.

The fans voted for Uggla, you can't take that out on Tony. You don't seem to have much knowledge on who Tony picked and how many selections he had and what he had to do with those picks.


:clap: ^ this

Dr Cyanide 28
07-05-2012, 04:36 PM
jeffry may be the best baseball poster on this site

redbird89
07-05-2012, 05:33 PM
La Russa went on the radio today and talked about Dusty stabbing him in the back.

Podcast (halfway through the segment):

http://www.danpatrick.com/podcasts/feed/

Some quotes
"We've got a long history."
"I thought we had a good relationship."
"This is a... betrayal."
"I feel betrayed by him. Professionally is one thing, but that was personal."
"I'm really upset about it."
"He has had (the experience as an All-Star manager) and he's so off-base on that."
"It'd have been wrong for me to hold some kind of personal vendetta against any of the Cincinnati Reds and I didn't, because I picked some of them."
"It is even more wrong for me to give in to a cheap shot and made a change in the roster when it didn't work out."
"I think maybe he is making points with his players and somebody had to be sacrificed that was me."
"What were you thinking about?"
"The players dictate the second line of players and first line of pitchers the fans dictate the first line of players so you really don't get many choices and enough said."
"That's a knife in the back that I don't think I'll forget."
"I take it personal." "Betrayal is exactly how I feel."
"I've gotten calls from other guys who are more respectful 'hey I know it's a tough process but we think...' The Giants have told me they think they have a couple of pitchers better than Cueto and they didn't get picked."
"It happens every year to every manager on both sides." "Somebody is upset." "The one question you would love to be able to face-to-face ask the pitcher, or the player who complains or the agent complains or the organization that complains, is okay 'you take the guy that's on the roster off to put your guy on now tell me who that is. That would stop a lot of that nonsense."
"I've caught more (respectful) heat that Holliday's having a better year than Bruce, and I picked Bruce. You get it from both sides."
"Fans pick the starting 8 in the National League and then the players pick the back eight. the players pick the first eight pitchers, 5 starters and 3 relievers. So the players have spoken as well. "
"I'd love to be able to go into a courtroom and explain my team and take my chances."
"When you can make an explanation and then somebody brings in something that happened a couple of years ago..."
"It redrudges that terrible night, and if I was Cincinnati I would keep that flushed down far as I could. To bring that back up is a big mistake on their part because they were so egregious in how they got that thing going. They're best forgetting it and not trying to remind anybody about it."
"I'm going to enjoy the experience, looking forward to being back in uniform with the coaches. I love the All-Star experience ever since my first one in 84. The best baseball players in the world. You watch them work out for two days and watch them play."

Jeffy25
07-05-2012, 05:43 PM
La Russa went on the radio today and talked about Dusty stabbing him in the back.

Podcast (halfway through the segment):

http://www.danpatrick.com/podcasts/feed/

That was great!

d79cheese
07-05-2012, 06:37 PM
La Russa went on the radio today and talked about Dusty stabbing him in the back.

Podcast (halfway through the segment):

http://www.danpatrick.com/podcasts/feed/

Some quotes
"We've got a long history."
"I thought we had a good relationship."
"This is a... betrayal."
"I feel betrayed by him. Professionally is one thing, but that was personal."
"I'm really upset about it."
"He has had (the experience as an All-Star manager) and he's so off-base on that."
"It'd have been wrong for me to hold some kind of personal vendetta against any of the Cincinnati Reds and I didn't, because I picked some of them."
"It is even more wrong for me to give in to a cheap shot and made a change in the roster when it didn't work out."
"I think maybe he is making points with his players and somebody had to be sacrificed that was me."
"What were you thinking about?"
"The players dictate the second line of players and first line of pitchers the fans dictate the first line of players so you really don't get many choices and enough said."
"That's a knife in the back that I don't think I'll forget."
"I take it personal." "Betrayal is exactly how I feel."
"I've gotten calls from other guys who are more respectful 'hey I know it's a tough process but we think...' The Giants have told me they think they have a couple of pitchers better than Cueto and they didn't get picked."
"It happens every year to every manager on both sides." "Somebody is upset." "The one question you would love to be able to face-to-face ask the pitcher, or the player who complains or the agent complains or the organization that complains, is okay 'you take the guy that's on the roster off to put your guy on now tell me who that is. That would stop a lot of that nonsense."
"I've caught more (respectful) heat that Holliday's having a better year than Bruce, and I picked Bruce. You get it from both sides."
"Fans pick the starting 8 in the National League and then the players pick the back eight. the players pick the first eight pitchers, 5 starters and 3 relievers. So the players have spoken as well. "
"I'd love to be able to go into a courtroom and explain my team and take my chances."
"When you can make an explanation and then somebody brings in something that happened a couple of years ago..."
"It redrudges that terrible night, and if I was Cincinnati I would keep that flushed down far as I could. To bring that back up is a big mistake on their part because they were so egregious in how they got that thing going. They're best forgetting it and not trying to remind anybody about it."
"I'm going to enjoy the experience, looking forward to being back in uniform with the coaches. I love the All-Star experience ever since my first one in 84. The best baseball players in the world. You watch them work out for two days and watch them play."

lol

jlohm1
07-05-2012, 06:59 PM
La Russa went on the radio today and talked about Dusty stabbing him in the back.

Dusty stabbed LaRussa in the back? they haven't gotten a long for years now. it's nothing new. like what one Reds posted said and i've posted earlier, if Dusty takes the Reds to the WS this year, i would bet anything that Molina and Chris Carpenter get snubbed, even if they are performing at an All Star level (unless, of course, Molina is selected by the fans).

do I think that LaRussa went out of his way to make sure that Phillips and Cueto didn't make the team? probably. he doesn't like either one of them, we all know that.

but do i think that the fight was the only reason they didn't make it? No. I think if the fight never happened, then Cueto may be an All Star, but probably not Phillips. honestly, i'm ashamed in the Reds fans for not voting Phillips in. i know he was in 2nd at one point not too long ago. he had the opportunity to be an all star, but the Reds fans didn't come through for him. i think that if more Reds fans voted, Phillips could have easily taken the spot from Uggla. i'm sorry someone currently batting .229 shouldn't be in the all star. say what you want about BA but it's true.

Jeffy25
07-05-2012, 10:26 PM
honestly, i'm ashamed in the Reds fans for not voting Phillips in. i know he was in 2nd at one point not too long ago. he had the opportunity to be an all star, but the Reds fans didn't come through for him. i think that if more Reds fans voted, Phillips could have easily taken the spot from Uggla. i'm sorry someone currently batting .229 shouldn't be in the all star. say what you want about BA but it's true.

Uggla is beating Phillips by about 40 points in OBP. He might be behind Phillips by 50 points in average, by 40 points in OBP is a lot more meaningful.

What people might not realize is that Phillips has hit for better power this year than Uggla (Slugging percentage wise at least)

But batting average is overall kind of worthless.

In the end, they are basically identical offensively thus far this year. Edge goes to Phillips defensively.

But if anyone should be upset about Phillips not making it over Uggla, it should be the fans that didn't vote for him (like you said).

ccugrad1
07-06-2012, 09:42 AM
Until they either get rid of the fan vote or the every team needs to be represented rule, there are always going to be significant snubs. Not sure why it is a big surprise to everyone each year

I have never bought into that because IMO, there are very few years that you can't find AT LEAST 1 player from every team to be represented in the All-Star Game.

The 5 worst teams, record wise, in MLB right now are:

Chicago Cubs- 31-51
Colorado- 31-51
Houston- 32-51
Seattle-- 35-49
Minnesota-- 35-47

From the Cubs, you can easily put 1B Bryan LeHair (14 HR's, 30 RBI's .289 BA) and possibly even SS Starlin Castro on the team.

For Colorado, Carlos Gonzalez is an easy pick batting .336, 17 HR's 58 RBI's;.

For Houston, SS Jed Lowrie is a solid selection; and with 17 saves almost at the break on a bad team, you could possibly even put CL Brett Myers on the team.

For Seattle, it may be a bit tough there, but there is always SP Felix Hernandez or Ichiro.

And finally, Minnesota, C Joe Mauer is an easy choice batting .330; and 3B Trevor Plouffe has 19 HR's so far.

I have never bought into the idea that every team can't be represented because even on the worst of teams, you can find somebody worthy of being an All-Star.

******2017
07-06-2012, 09:55 AM
The Padres really don't have anyone that is really deserving of an All-Star bid. I do think Headley should be in instead of Street though.

ccugrad1
07-06-2012, 10:32 AM
The Padres really don't have anyone that is really deserving of an All-Star bid. I do think Headley should be in instead of Street though.

You could argue for Huston Street; 13 saves, 1.17 ERA on a bad San Diego team is someone that you wouldn't have a problem putting on the team. And Headley you can make a case for too.

What I was arguing is that there are very few times like the one year where the Pirates representative had something like a 6.00+ ERA and made it because the team was so bad.

Jeffy25
07-06-2012, 05:46 PM
I have never bought into that because IMO, there are very few years that you can't find AT LEAST 1 player from every team to be represented in the All-Star Game.

The 5 worst teams, record wise, in MLB right now are:

Chicago Cubs- 31-51
Colorado- 31-51
Houston- 32-51
Seattle-- 35-49
Minnesota-- 35-47

From the Cubs, you can easily put 1B Bryan LeHair (14 HR's, 30 RBI's .289 BA) and possibly even SS Starlin Castro on the team.

For Colorado, Carlos Gonzalez is an easy pick batting .336, 17 HR's 58 RBI's;.

For Houston, SS Jed Lowrie is a solid selection; and with 17 saves almost at the break on a bad team, you could possibly even put CL Brett Myers on the team.

For Seattle, it may be a bit tough there, but there is always SP Felix Hernandez or Ichiro.

And finally, Minnesota, C Joe Mauer is an easy choice batting .330; and 3B Trevor Plouffe has 19 HR's so far.

I have never bought into the idea that every team can't be represented because even on the worst of teams, you can find somebody worthy of being an All-Star.

Great post

ATL#22
07-06-2012, 06:07 PM
Dusty Baker is such a ****. Phillips would of had a few more RBI's (to help his case) if Baker wasn't hitting Stubbs and Cozart 1 and 2. He's got his catcher with a .348 OBP batting 8th and Cozart (.294) batting 2nd.

Jeffy25
07-06-2012, 06:08 PM
Dusty Baker is such a ****. Phillips would of had a few more RBI's (to help his case) if Baker wasn't hitting Stubbs and Cozart 1 and 2. He's got his catcher with a .348 OBP batting 8th and Cozart (.294) batting 2nd.

Because speed is the most important thing at the beginning of the lineup, don'tcha know?