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View Full Version : Phillies 11 GB...Hamels On Trading Block?



TrueYankee
07-01-2012, 07:08 PM
The Phillies' asking price for Hamels is said to be a package of four to five prospects, tweets Buster Olney of ESPN.com. Olney adds rival executives believe such a package could be hard to come by with the new rule preventing teams from offering arbitration to potential free agents acquired in trade (via Twitter).

I think since the Phillies have an unimpressive farm system and they are already 11 games back, they should trade Hamels. It appears they are already shopping him but I will be curious to see what they can get in return for him.

Will they trade him?

If so, who has the best shot at getting him?

My guess- Rangers or Tigers

Jeffy25
07-01-2012, 07:11 PM
I am betting they wait another 3 weeks before actually deciding.

Dodgers will be a good fit.

TheRuckus
07-01-2012, 07:12 PM
He should be.

:sad2:

**** you, Amaro.

metswon69
07-01-2012, 07:21 PM
I still think they can make a run and there is still half the season to go but they better start winning now.

nostradamus84
07-01-2012, 07:35 PM
I think they are just gauging the market now, but he will eventually be traded. With the Phils slipping out of contention, and it becoming more and more apparent Hamel's doesn't appear willing to sign and extension, the writing is on the wall.

I could see the Tigers going all in and making an offer with Nick Castellanos as a centerpiece.

TheRuckus
07-01-2012, 07:41 PM
I still think they can make a run and there is still half the season to go but they better start winning now.

Have you seen them play at all this year? :laugh2:

I'm typically one of the more optimistic Phils forum regulars, and even I think they're essentially cooked.

They could make a run. Would I bet on it? No. Would I even want them to? Only if they win it all. Anything less would probably make the future outlook even worse then it already, because Amaro would almost certainly make another short-sighted move.

metswon69
07-01-2012, 07:45 PM
Have you seen them play at all this year? :laugh2:

I'm typically one of the more optimistic Phils forum regulars, and even I think they're essentially cooked.

They could make a run. Would I bet on it? No. Would I even want them to? Only if they win it all. Anything less would probably make the future outlook even worse then it already, because Amaro would almost certainly make another short-sighted move.

They still have a very talented rotation if Lee gets his **** in order, Halladay comes back and pitches like Halladay, Hamels isn't traded, and what team besides the Nationals have as a good 4th starter as Worley.

Their bullpen has hurt them and their offense is flat but remember with the second wild card now it might take only 85 wins to be a playoff team.

If they get hot, the rest of this division outside of the Nationals is inconsistent and they could certainly put themselves back into the discussion.

Is it likely? No, but stranger things have happened.

I don't consider anything impossible after i watched what the Mets did in 2007.

slugger82685
07-01-2012, 07:54 PM
I think he gets traded to my Rangers....they have the deepest farm system, but I think the Rangers pull the trigger only if Hamels signs an extension with them. If he does, I think a package that includes Olt and Perez will get it done.

TheRuckus
07-01-2012, 08:12 PM
They still have a very talented rotation if Lee gets his **** in order, Halladay comes back and pitches like Halladay, Hamels isn't traded, and what team besides the Nationals have as a good 4th starter as Worley.

Their bullpen has hurt them and their offense is flat but remember with the second wild card now it might take only 85 wins to be a playoff team.

If they get hot, the rest of this division outside of the Nationals is inconsistent and they could certainly put themselves back into the discussion.

Is it likely? No, but stranger things have happened.

I don't consider anything impossible after i watched what the Mets did in 2007.

The offense has actually been one of the better ones in the NL since the end of April, believe it or not. It's definitely been the pitching staff that's let the team down. They've also lost seemingly every one-run or extra-inning game. There are logical reasons to believe that they have it in them to make this thing interesting, and if they do get into the playoffs...well, we know what a crapshoot the playoffs can be.

There are also reasons to think that they're ****ed. Halladay's coming off a shoulder injury, Utley's knees are a time bomb, Howard himself says he won't be 100% coming back from his Achilles injury, and I almost suspect Lee is pitching hurt. Even if that whole cavalry rides to the rescue, the bullpen's still a serious problem. Trades could shore up that weakness, but I sure as **** don't trust Amaro to make reasonable deals at this point.

I see your points and I'm not disagreeing with you. I just think they're going to need every break they can get, and simple probability dictates they're not necessarily going to get them.

justndav
07-01-2012, 08:44 PM
I, too, believe Cole Hamels will be traded. I think the Detroit Tigers, Cleveland Indians, and possibly the Cardinals are likely landing spots.

Have to think if some team comes along and overwhelms the Phillies he'll be moved quickly. If it becomes a bidding war between a couple teams they are going to get a heck of a haul for him too. Four impact prospects- doubt it since he's a FA after the season but two high level prospects and one low level one I could see.

NYMETS2889
07-01-2012, 08:48 PM
I still think they can make a run and there is still half the season to go but they better start winning now.

i don't know about a run-there is just too many teams ahead of them that they would need a serious collapse from

mtf
07-01-2012, 08:50 PM
I'm guessing the Yankees make a play for him. Their rotation has taken hits lately and they are playing well enough to believe they can win another World Series this year.

NYMETS2889
07-01-2012, 08:53 PM
I'm guessing the Yankees make a play for him. Their rotation has taken hits lately and they are playing well enough to believe they can win another World Series this year.

i don't see them having the propects to get him- i don't want to hear about "the killer b's" they have been getting lit up this year and are what most NY prospects are a mirage(and i mean that for both teams not just the yankees)

More-Than-Most
07-01-2012, 08:55 PM
trade him to the rangers please... **** you amaro

More-Than-Most
07-01-2012, 08:56 PM
Hey if you guys want your GMs to know of ways not to destroy a great team tell them to watch amaro and do the opposite.

RowanJournalist
07-01-2012, 08:57 PM
Amaro... WTF...

Ares
07-01-2012, 09:22 PM
Why not just send Ryan Howard to the Dodgers, with half his salary for Lee, Gould, Loney and Herrera.

Then re-sign Hamels.

TrueYankee
07-01-2012, 09:41 PM
I saw someone say Yankees. LOL. Never. They do not have a good enough package to offer Philly. Killer B's have been killed.

t327
07-01-2012, 09:56 PM
I do not think so. Teams will have to give up way too much to get him. Unless the team he is traded to is able to sign him to a multi-year deal...I do not think it will be worth it.

TeamGoku
07-01-2012, 10:19 PM
Idk who but the Phillies have no choice but to trade him at this point cause no way does Hamels ever re sign with Philly so they had better get what they can while they getting is hot right around the middle to end of the month

sexicano31
07-01-2012, 10:24 PM
Should they? Yes
Will they? Who knows. It would mean that Amaro sucks it up and admits he was wrong

Nymfan87
07-01-2012, 10:25 PM
I don't think anybody will give them a good enough package for them to deal him. They're going to want the moon, and teams aren't going to be willing to give up a massive prospect haul for a rental that you can't get compensation for.

sexicano31
07-01-2012, 10:25 PM
Why not just send Ryan Howard to the Dodgers, with half his salary for Lee, Gould, Loney and Herrera.

Then re-sign Hamels.

Jokes on jokes on jokes

Sick Of It All
07-01-2012, 10:33 PM
The new rules make it tough for a team to get 2 or more top prospects for a guy like Hamels, is like the Beltran situation last year, they will still be able and should get a top prospect for him, maybe another really good one, but not much more than that. Teams are just not going to give up that much for a guy that will likely walk, unless they can resign him or get a window to work an extension.

CHRISDODGERS
07-01-2012, 10:42 PM
FDCH want to be a Dodger, just make it happen

djmar
07-01-2012, 10:51 PM
I think they are just gauging the market now, but he will eventually be traded. With the Phils slipping out of contention, and it becoming more and more apparent Hamel's doesn't appear willing to sign and extension, the writing is on the wall.

I could see the Tigers going all in and making an offer with Nick Castellanos as a centerpiece.

thats the guy I want

mexalcahuete101
07-01-2012, 11:52 PM
thats the guy I want

I don't believe the tigers will go get a rental guy, besides nick c is the only untouchable tiger in the minors

VRP723
07-01-2012, 11:55 PM
I'd like Cole, but I wouldn't trade anything of serious value for him. Why waste prospects when we're signing him in 6 months?

JNev
07-02-2012, 04:13 AM
Phillies have little leverage, but Cole is a stud pitcher. I think something will get done

LASportsFan1996
07-02-2012, 05:06 AM
I'd like Cole, but I wouldn't trade anything of serious value for him. Why waste prospects when we're signing him in 6 months?

This. X100000000000000000

thefeckcampaign
07-02-2012, 08:10 AM
I think they need to trade Lee or Halladay and give Hamels an extention. I'm not sure why this is inconceivable or impossible to some.

sexicano31
07-02-2012, 09:12 AM
Because its impossible to trade either Lee or Doc right now

NY_Heartbreak
07-02-2012, 09:33 AM
This is the price the Phillies have to pay for gutting the farm system every year. Unless you guys get a few significant peices for Hamels, I can't see Philadelphia competing again anytime soon.

NYMETS2889
07-02-2012, 09:33 AM
I think they need to trade Lee or Halladay and give Hamels an extention. I'm not sure why this is inconceivable or impossible to some.

because Halladay is on the DL, Lee has been an utter disappointment

Also dont overlook these guys both have limited no trade clauses, as well as their contracts cannot be afforded by most teams in the MLB

Twinke Masta
07-02-2012, 09:48 AM
Yeah they will, this isn't the season for the Phils at all. Gotta prepare for seasons down the road

goalie
07-02-2012, 09:49 AM
The Phils aren't in last place because they "gutted their farm system" and they won't trade Cole because they are 11 games out of first.

All that matters is how many out of the wildcard they are, their health and whether Cole will re-sign.

If they were worried about their record, they wouldn't still be making offers to Cole they would be selling him.

Pinstripe pride
07-02-2012, 10:26 AM
sound slike he's all but gone come the off seaosn, so they should defiently trade him

sexicano31
07-02-2012, 10:33 AM
The Phils aren't in last place because they "gutted their farm system" and they won't trade Cole because they are 11 games out of first.

All that matters is how many out of the wildcard they are, their health and whether Cole will re-sign.

If they were worried about their record, they wouldn't still be making offers to Cole they would be selling him.

And shopping him they are

thefeckcampaign
07-02-2012, 10:54 AM
because Halladay is on the DL, Lee has been an utter disappointment

Also dont overlook these guys both have limited no trade clauses, as well as their contracts cannot be afforded by most teams in the MLBThese are both extremely established pitchers. Now I'm not sure when Halladay gets off the DL, but right now it is only 15 days. If it is before the the trade deadline, it will not have an effect. Lee is just in a rough spot for the last 4 starts. We all know what he has been capable of.

sexicano31
07-02-2012, 10:58 AM
It's been his last 7 starts. Doc won't be back for a few weeks. You honestly think teams would give up anything for older, expensive pitchers who are hurt/pitching like ****?

ciaban
07-02-2012, 11:06 AM
with roy there is an option year on his contract after next year he needs to either have 225 innings or 415 over this year and next (not happening), so if he misses any time next year he probably will hit free agency next year too. The phillies could loose their 3 of their 4 horsemen over 3 straight years

ciaban
07-02-2012, 11:10 AM
I'd like Cole, but I wouldn't trade anything of serious value for him. Why waste prospects when we're signing him in 6 months?
I like where your heads at, keep up the good work

because Halladay is on the DL, Lee has been an utter disappointment

Also dont overlook these guys both have limited no trade clauses, as well as their contracts cannot be afforded by most teams in the MLB

well that's what lee gets forgetting that he is pitching in a HITTERS park

sexicano31
07-02-2012, 11:22 AM
CBP isn't really a hitters park. It's neutral leaning slightly towards a hitters park

goalie
07-02-2012, 11:23 AM
And shopping him they are

Why wouldn't they? You really think they would be dumb enough not to check in on what teams will give up?

"Shopping" a player is also a way to jumpstart contract talks, so don't get all excited about the demise of the Phils just yet.

2 Wild Cards this year folks. 11.5 out means nothing.

Fly
07-02-2012, 11:32 AM
Why wouldn't they? You really think they would be dumb enough not to check in on what teams will give up?

"Shopping" a player is also a way to jumpstart contract talks, so don't get all excited about the demise of the Phils just yet.

2 Wild Cards this year folks. 11.5 out means nothing.

Okay, then let's take a look at which teams are ahead of the Phillies in the wild card race, shall we?

Mets, Braves, Marlins, Pirates, Cardinals, Brewers, Dodgers, Diamondbacks.

That's a lot of teams to overcome..

******2017
07-02-2012, 11:40 AM
The Indians could be a team that makes a play for him. I don't know anything about any of these team's minor league depths to make a move but add the Dodgers, Orioles, Red Sox, Blue Jays and Tigers to the list of possible suitors if he's moved.

goalie
07-02-2012, 11:42 AM
Not worried about half of those teams, our division, all centrals and the dbacks especially.

Not that any of them aren't nice teams or that they don't have anything going for them, but they aren't Murderers Row and they are all beatable.

sexicano31
07-02-2012, 11:44 AM
11.5 is actually a ton to overcome....

Lots of competition in the East and Central. Not going to happen. Cole is likely heading West next year. Best option is to trade him and get younger

******2017
07-02-2012, 11:44 AM
That's just a lot of teams to out play down the stretch. It's not likely all of them fall apart to the point that the Phillies crawl back in it. A good 15-20 game win streak could put them in the hunt but after what I've seen from the Phillies this year, they don't look capable of putting together that kind of streak.

sexicano31
07-02-2012, 11:50 AM
Yeah, the pen blows and the starting pitching has been meh. Not happening

goalie
07-02-2012, 11:55 AM
No doubt, the team is a mess right now. Ignored the bullpen since they won it all. Obsession with big name SP and trying to find the next no name bench player turned great. Amaro is overrated, Manuel can't get them to hit and they look disinterested.

But the Brewers could disappear easliy, Dbacks don't scare anyone and the entire NL East is overrated..including us.

Dark Donnie
07-02-2012, 11:56 AM
11.5 is actually a ton to overcome....

Lots of competition in the East and Central. Not going to happen. Cole is likely heading West next year. Best option is to trade him and get younger

Why do you think he'll go West? He's literally on record with saying he loves the East Coast atmosphere with baseball.

"Now I know there is nothing better than pitching in Philadelphia in front of sell out crowds, there aren't too many sellouts on the West Coast. There's just so much to do out there. The East Coast is the ultimate baseball experience."

I think he wants to re-sign here, but Amaro won't budge on the years.

Fly
07-02-2012, 12:04 PM
No doubt, the team is a mess right now. Ignored the bullpen since they won it all. Obsession with big name SP and trying to find the next no name bench player turned great. Amaro is overrated, Manuel can't get them to hit and they look disinterested.

But the Brewers could disappear easliy, Dbacks don't scare anyone and the entire NL East is overrated..including us.

Why would the brewers disappear easily? Please explain that statement. Also, the Diamondbacks won 94 games last year. Not saying they're going to do it again, but they've definitely been better than the Phillies this year.

TheIlladelph16
07-02-2012, 12:14 PM
I get the impression he really wants to resign with the Phils. The whole West Coast nonsense really means nothing considering he is on record saying the East Coast is way better to play baseball on. Sure the Dodgers will be throwing a lot of money at him, but I truly believe he wants to stay here. Remember when it was all but decided Cliff Lee was going to New York two years ago? As my NY friend put it "he was fitted for pinstripes during the playoffs", and how did that turn out?

If it comes down to a question of years.... 5-6 years I am perfectly fine with. Pay the man and move on. If its 7 years+ and he won't budge from that, I am a little wary of giving a pitcher a 7 year deal. There has never been a seven year deal given to a pitcher that has truly worked out so it scares the **** out of me to do it. I would probably still bite the bullet though and sign him.

goalie
07-02-2012, 12:21 PM
Why would the brewers disappear easily? Please explain that statement. Also, the Diamondbacks won 94 games last year. Not saying they're going to do it again, but they've definitely been better than the Phillies this year.

They are 36-42, what makes them so much better or "uncatchable"? They will trade Grienke before PHI trades Hamels, and then they only have Gallardo.

So the Phils are 36-45 are in fire sale mode, but the 36-42 Brewers are the Wild Card favorite?

The Phils are 3 games behind them in the L column while playing their worst baseball of the last 6 years. Sorry I'm not worried.

No disrespect the loyal Brewers fans, nice team, not worried about them though.

Fly
07-02-2012, 12:50 PM
They are 36-42, what makes them so much better or "uncatchable"? They will trade Grienke before PHI trades Hamels, and then they only have Gallardo.

So the Phils are 36-45 are in fire sale mode, but the 36-42 Brewers are the Wild Card favorite?

The Phils are 3 games behind them in the L column while playing their worst baseball of the last 6 years. Sorry I'm not worried.

No disrespect the loyal Brewers fans, nice team, not worried about them though.

No one ever called them the Wild Card favorites, but as it stands now they're better than the Phillies, and that shows in the standings.

LLMunchie619
07-02-2012, 01:36 PM
Lol! Better than the Phils with Utley just returning? With Howard about to return? With Doc about to come back? With Lee struggling? With them being ravished by injuries day in and day out??? Ya think???? Lol

rkelly7
07-02-2012, 01:47 PM
If they were smart they would trade him. Since Utley and Howard are no longer elite players, I don't see them being world series contenders liek they were a few years back... If I wewre them, I'd look to trade Hamels and see if anyone would bite on Lee.

their farm system got destroyed from the Lee, Halladay, and Pence trades. If they don't unload him now, they will be be mediocre for years to come.

Fly
07-02-2012, 01:51 PM
Lol! Better than the Phils with Utley just returning? With Howard about to return? With Doc about to come back? With Lee struggling? With them being ravished by injuries day in and day out??? Ya think???? Lol

Yes.

zala
07-02-2012, 01:52 PM
The Phils are 3 games behind them in the L column while playing their worst baseball of the last 6 years. Sorry I'm not worried.
If Phillies has 50-31 in last 81 games (and that should not happen), their result will be 86-76. And that is not enough for WC spot even there are two WCs.

goalie
07-02-2012, 01:55 PM
No one ever called them the Wild Card favorites, but as it stands now they're better than the Phillies, and that shows in the standings.

36-42, NL look out we have a dynasty in our midst.

metswon69
07-02-2012, 02:00 PM
Why do you think he'll go West? He's literally on record with saying he loves the East Coast atmosphere with baseball.

"Now I know there is nothing better than pitching in Philadelphia in front of sell out crowds, there aren't too many sellouts on the West Coast. There's just so much to do out there. The East Coast is the ultimate baseball experience."

I think he wants to re-sign here, but Amaro won't budge on the years.

Unless he re-signs with the Phillies, i don't know how many big market East coast teams are going to give him what he wants.

The Yankees are near the luxury tax and from all reports here, they don't want to go over it next year.

The Red Sox might be the only big market east coast team in for his services and i don't think they are going to give him the years he wants with their payroll the way it is.

The Mets only in my dreams lmao.

The West coast seems like the most logical place for him to go unless he finds a big market team in the mid west like the White Sox who are willing to pay him.

goalie
07-02-2012, 02:03 PM
their farm system got destroyed from the Lee, Halladay, and Pence trades. If they don't unload him now, they will be be mediocre for years to come.

biggest misconception in this conversation. the farm is no better or worse than it was 2 years ago, aside from the disappointment of dom brown who should have been an everyday regular by this point.

a few years ago people were screaming about jason donald, michael taylor and lou marson. they are nonfactors.

only piece we will miss is d'arnaud and we have catchers in front and behind where he would be.

maybe singleton and cosart, jury is still out on them, as well as gose.

no one they traded is on a top prospect radar anywhere aside from the 3 i mentioned.

phils farm is in large part overrated, they aren't going to miss anything they gave up and it's all replaceable. not like they traded hosmer and moustakas for cliff lee, calm down.

sexicano31
07-02-2012, 02:15 PM
Actually...the farm is in much worse condition this year from last year, the year before that and the year before that. The only ones raving about Donald, Marson and Carassco were Philly fans. Scouts didn't really like them. So yes, the farm is shot thanks to the Doc and Pence trades.

Dom hasn't been a disappointment. He was good last year in minimum playing time

goalie
07-02-2012, 02:21 PM
I'm guessing the Indians were high on those guys too, unless philly fans run that team.

Dom Brown should be an everyday fixture in the lineup right now, anything aside from that is a disappointment.

Apparently the move to center has given him a boost, we'll see what happens when he gets back in the lineup.

Farm system is overrated for several years, so you're thinking they're missing more than they are.

They are missing bodies yes, but not anything that can't be replaced. None of those arms would be making a difference anywhere, they had too many pitchers and were dealing from surplus. The bats they gave up were blocked, thats when you trade them.

Fly
07-02-2012, 02:23 PM
36-42, NL look out we have a dynasty in our midst.

Again, that's not what I said at all, but whatever helps you sleep at night buddy. Just trying to show you some stats.

goalie
07-02-2012, 02:30 PM
Again, that's not what I said at all, but whatever helps you sleep at night buddy. Just trying to show you some stats.

What stats did you provide peter gammons? a 3 game advantage in the loss column? how can we possibly overcome that juggernaut????????????

You're telling me that a 36-42 team is without question better than a 36-45 team that is without a handful of their best players? The Phils cant catch up to the Brewers? Its over already?

Can't catch the 39-39 Dbacks because of how many games they won last year? How many did the phils win last year/ Why are those number relevant?

Fly
07-02-2012, 02:40 PM
What stats did you provide peter gammons? a 3 game advantage in the loss column? how can we possibly overcome that juggernaut????????????

You're telling me that a 36-42 team is without question better than a 36-45 team that is without a handful of their best players? The Phils cant catch up to the Brewers? Its over already?

Can't catch the 39-39 Dbacks because of how many games they won last year? How many did the phils win last year/ Why are those number relevant?

Your rotation has been weak all year, even when you did have Roy Halladay. Lee isn't pitching well this year, there's no way to avoid that. Your bullpen really isn't that good, and your pitching has given up the sixth most runs in baseball. The Phils' main strength, their pitching, has been a weakness this year.

sexicano31
07-02-2012, 02:44 PM
Sounds like this guy has a problem believing we can't sustain our previous 5 years of success

1903
07-02-2012, 02:46 PM
Lee had an off month but he is still pitching pretty well and he will be OK.

TAC91
07-02-2012, 02:54 PM
I voted no but it's sorta hard to predict. Which ever team that trades for Hamels will pay dearly in terms of prospects and I'm interested to know which team will give up a bunch to get him.

metswon69
07-02-2012, 03:11 PM
I voted no but it's sorta hard to predict. Which ever team that trades for Hamels will pay dearly in terms of prospects and I'm interested to know which team will give up a bunch to get him.

They won't give up much in respects to quantity unless they know Hamels signs an extension.

mikepelfrey
07-02-2012, 04:08 PM
i don't see them having the propects to get him- i don't want to hear about "the killer b's" they have been getting lit up this year and are what most NY prospects are a mirage(and i mean that for both teams not just the yankees)

i buy that about our prospects since Pelrey and Ike Davis Jenrry Mejia, Fernando Martinez have all been considered cant miss and we've gotten nothing outside of Ike who still is only hitting 200

the Yankees have Robbie Cano, Brett Gardner David Robertson Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera, Phil Hughes, Jesus Montero, Mark Melancon, Alfredo Aceves, Jose Tabata,

As a met fan id be ecstatic if our farm produced like the yankees has, but Tejada and Parnell and Murphy and Davis are still works in progress

NY_Heartbreak
07-02-2012, 04:22 PM
The Phillies need to restock their farm system. If they don't trade Hamels and he leaves in free agency, and the Phils miss on their 1A and 1B picks, the franchise is in deep trouble for the next 4-5 years.

thefeckcampaign
07-02-2012, 04:27 PM
I just heard on WFAN this one analyst, whose name I have forgotten, just state that he spoke to several GM's and the consensus is if any team were to take Lee, that the Phils would have to pick up part of his contract.

metswon69
07-02-2012, 04:38 PM
I just heard on WFAN this one analyst, whose name I have forgotten, just state that he spoke to several GM's and the consensus is if any team were to take Lee, that the Phils would have to pick up part of his contract.

How much is part though?

They have what close to another 100 million dollars they owe him and he hasn't been very good this year.

Havoc Wreaker
07-02-2012, 05:31 PM
I wish I was a low-life or a bad-*** serial killer so I could hunt down Amaro

PhillyOwnsAll
07-02-2012, 05:48 PM
I believe he will be traded. I guarantee that Hamels will not fair as well in the AL. I'm thinking the Rangers for a deal surrounding Mike Olt. A hitting prospect the Phillies desperately need in the farm. Polanco's on his way out. With the way Pierre has been playing I expect Victorino to be dealt as well.

PhillyOwnsAll
07-02-2012, 05:49 PM
Olt would be this teams starting 3rd baseman next season.

koldjerky
07-02-2012, 05:51 PM
Hamels will be fine where ever he goes.

es0terik
07-02-2012, 07:03 PM
What I don't get is why don't they just trade Cliff Lee and give Hamels the money that Lee is making right now..? Even if Lee's stock is low right now, does that even matter? Who would rather have Lee right now than Hamels? You could give him away for absolutely nothing and it would still be worth it if you got Hamels, because you'd just basically be losing Lee instead of Hamels to free agency. That being said, they'll obviously get something of value for Cliff Lee, so why not just do that? I mean it sounds like a no-brainer to me.

You trade Cliff Lee away as a salary dump, get a few nice specs, give Lee's 5/120 contract to Hamels, is that really not enough to get it done? That's what I'm doing if I'm Amaro.

1903
07-02-2012, 07:24 PM
What I don't get is why don't they just trade Cliff Lee and give Hamels the money that Lee is making right now..? Even if Lee's stock is low right now, does that even matter? Who would rather have Lee right now than Hamels? You could give him away for absolutely nothing and it would still be worth it if you got Hamels, because you'd just basically be losing Lee instead of Hamels to free agency. That being said, they'll obviously get something of value for Cliff Lee, so why not just do that? I mean it sounds like a no-brainer to me.

You trade Cliff Lee away as a salary dump, get a few nice specs, give Lee's 5/120 contract to Hamels, is that really not enough to get it done? That's what I'm doing if I'm Amaro.



Hamels will want more than 5/120.

Beltrans Mole
07-02-2012, 07:31 PM
Hamels will want more than 5/120.

You honestly think he's going to GET more than 5/120???

1903
07-02-2012, 07:33 PM
You honestly think he's going to GET more than 5/120???

I doubt his per year average will be $24 million but I wouldn't be surprised to see him get more years and a larger total.

Jeffy25
07-02-2012, 07:36 PM
No way does Hamels get 5/120....maybe 6/120, but not 5/120.

I think he will cap out at 6/110 in both years or money

ciaban
07-02-2012, 07:38 PM
Why do you think he'll go West? He's literally on record with saying he loves the East Coast atmosphere with baseball.

"Now I know there is nothing better than pitching in Philadelphia in front of sell out crowds, there aren't too many sellouts on the West Coast. There's just so much to do out there. The East Coast is the ultimate baseball experience."

I think he wants to re-sign here, but Amaro won't budge on the years.
because he is from socal, other than boston and nyy and phillies and mets who sells out games on the east coast? and who has the money to get him?


No doubt, the team is a mess right now. Ignored the bullpen since they won it all. Obsession with big name SP and trying to find the next no name bench player turned great. Amaro is overrated, Manuel can't get them to hit and they look disinterested.

But the Brewers could disappear easliy, Dbacks don't scare anyone and the entire NL East is overrated..including us.

dude DBacks are pretty legit, and they have a really deep farm too, just called up that trevor bauer kid as a dodger fan I'm worried


If they were smart they would trade him. Since Utley and Howard are no longer elite players, I don't see them being world series contenders liek they were a few years back... If I wewre them, I'd look to trade Hamels and see if anyone would bite on Lee.

their farm system got destroyed from the Lee, Halladay, and Pence trades. If they don't unload him now, they will be be mediocre for years to come.
also big name signings have cost them high draft picks, so it wasn't even just trading for lee it was signing him afterwords, also you forgot oswalt


biggest misconception in this conversation. the farm is no better or worse than it was 2 years ago, aside from the disappointment of dom brown who should have been an everyday regular by this point.

a few years ago people were screaming about jason donald, michael taylor and lou marson. they are nonfactors.

only piece we will miss is d'arnaud and we have catchers in front and behind where he would be.

maybe singleton and cosart, jury is still out on them, as well as gose.

no one they traded is on a top prospect radar anywhere aside from the 3 i mentioned.

phils farm is in large part overrated, they aren't going to miss anything they gave up and it's all replaceable. not like they traded hosmer and moustakas for cliff lee, calm down.

what kyle drabek he looks pretty good to me


I get the impression he really wants to resign with the Phils. The whole West Coast nonsense really means nothing considering he is on record saying the East Coast is way better to play baseball on. Sure the Dodgers will be throwing a lot of money at him, but I truly believe he wants to stay here. Remember when it was all but decided Cliff Lee was going to New York two years ago? As my NY friend put it "he was fitted for pinstripes during the playoffs", and how did that turn out?

If it comes down to a question of years.... 5-6 years I am perfectly fine with. Pay the man and move on. If its 7 years+ and he won't budge from that, I am a little wary of giving a pitcher a 7 year deal. There has never been a seven year deal given to a pitcher that has truly worked out so it scares the **** out of me to do it. I would probably still bite the bullet though and sign him.

true that more than 6 years for a pitcher is crazy

1903
07-02-2012, 07:48 PM
No way does Hamels get 5/120....maybe 6/120, but not 5/120.

I think he will cap out at 6/110 in both years or money

Cain got $112.5 million guaranteed over 5 years (bonus/buyout) with the chance of 6/126 if he qualifies for the option. I wouldn't be surprised to see someone offer Hamels 6/120+. He is a year older than Cain but having teams bidding in free agency has it's benefits rather than signing an extension.

sexicano31
07-02-2012, 08:11 PM
Some caller on the local radio said that with everything the organization has done for him, 5/60 should be more than enough to get it done. Hahahahahahah

Nymfan87
07-02-2012, 08:13 PM
I say Hamels gets 6 years/$140 million, and Greinke gets 5 years/$100 million.

kmo429
07-02-2012, 08:14 PM
I thinkt he Phils are still in it.a if they can get Howard, utley, and Halladay back and still be alive, then i think they have a shot. A the same time, I dont think that will happen. Theyll trade Hamels

sexicano31
07-02-2012, 08:22 PM
Unless those three can pitch in relief, it ain't happening

I wouldn't mind trading cole and signing Greink in the offseason

papipapsmanny
07-02-2012, 08:28 PM
Bryce Brentz, Felix Doubront, Garin Cecchini, Alex Wilson, and Jose Vinicio for Hamels and the Sox get an exntension period.

That in my opinion would be a nice pickup for the phillies.

sexicano31
07-02-2012, 09:22 PM
Yeah no. Any deal starts with Middlebrooks

sexicano31
07-02-2012, 11:27 PM
Lol wut

TrueYankee
07-02-2012, 11:44 PM
Unless those three can pitch in relief, it ain't happening

I wouldn't mind trading cole and signing Greink in the offseason

Or trading Cole and signing Cole in the off-season. Lol.

If Amaro does not trade this guy to get a great package in return, he is making a mistake imo.

RaiderKid318
07-03-2012, 12:02 AM
Well I said yes, but honestly as a braves fan I say no the more i think about it. The phillies ALWAYS start off kinda slow and you think they are done then the all star break comes and they gain that steam and hit the playoffs as one of the best teams with the best records in baseball. They are an older team and it takes ole chase and jimmy a while to knock the dust off their ***** then they can literally carry that team the rest of the year by their selves. They are in no way out of the race IMO and will heat up. I mean you could put up a solid argument that Worley and Blanton are better pitchers than doc and lee which is crazy. Most fans would dog the other team, but this team has loads of talent and will put it together like always. The ONLY way I would trade cole is of they are still down 10+ by the dead line. He is easily the best trade piece in the bigs for a team in need of pitching and they could get Zach this off season if anything. Like I said I expect them to pick it up like always though.

papipapsmanny
07-03-2012, 12:14 AM
Yeah no. Any deal starts with Middlebrooks

not likely

sox could surely get hamels without WMB, only people on the major league roster I could see them parting with are Doubront and Kalish

Im sure you didn't even look the guys up I mentioned, Phils won't be getting an King Felix package thats for sure

Pinstripe pride
07-03-2012, 08:42 AM
not likely

sox could surely get hamels without WMB, only people on the major league roster I could see them parting with are Doubront and Kalish

Im sure you didn't even look the guys up I mentioned, Phils won't be getting an King Felix package thats for sure

it doesnt matter what the red sox are willing to part with. if the phillies really want middlebrooks, they get middlebrooks or the sox dont get hamels. I don't see the phillies dumping him just to get rid of, since they do want to keep him. They;re going to get a package they want or keep him and try to resign him

koldjerky
07-03-2012, 09:55 AM
Just because you don't want to give up Middlebrooks doesn't mean the Phillies won't get him. The Rangers and Tigers are said to be interested and they have nice 3B prospects that the Phillies could get. If the Phillies couldn't get what they want from other teams they would possibly accept a lesser offer from Boston. 3B is the Phillies biggest need and with two teams that are pursuing Hamels have a top 3B piece, the phillies won't settle for what Boston would give without including Middlebrooks.

Pinstripe pride
07-03-2012, 10:32 AM
Just because you don't want to give up Middlebrooks doesn't mean the Phillies won't get him. The Rangers and Tigers are said to be interested and they have nice 3B prospects that the Phillies could get. If the Phillies couldn't get what they want from other teams they would possibly accept a lesser offer from Boston. 3B is the Phillies biggest need and with two teams that are pursuing Hamels have a top 3B piece, the phillies won't settle for what Boston would give without including Middlebrooks.

people always seem to forget that keeping the player in question is an option, so its not just take what you cna get for him. philly is in the strong spot to ask for whatever they want

koldjerky
07-03-2012, 10:34 AM
Absolutely. They could re-sign him in the offseason as well.

Pinstripe pride
07-03-2012, 10:43 AM
Absolutely. They could re-sign him in the offseason as well.

which i think they would prefer. it's more him wanting to leave then them not wanting him to me

koldjerky
07-03-2012, 10:54 AM
Honestly, if the Phillies could get a Middlebrooks, Olt, Castellanos, I'd probably be willing to trade him.

I said this over in the Phillies forum but if the Phillies could fill a need at CF/3B by trading Hamels and Victorino (along with others) I could still them competing next season with Halladay, Lee, and Worley as a top 3. Their offense would just get better than in the process.

I think trading Hamels is the best option at this point.

Pinstripe pride
07-03-2012, 11:03 AM
Honestly, if the Phillies could get a Middlebrooks, Olt, Castellanos, I'd probably be willing to trade him.

I said this over in the Phillies forum but if the Phillies could fill a need at CF/3B by trading Hamels and Victorino (along with others) I could still them competing next season with Halladay, Lee, and Worley as a top 3. Their offense would just get better than in the process.

I think trading Hamels is the best option at this point.

i agree, but thats assuming they get decent offers. trading him for the sake soley of trading him is not the best option.

koldjerky
07-03-2012, 11:11 AM
Oh absolutely. If it's another Lee to Seattle deal then there was no point in the deal.

papipapsmanny
07-03-2012, 06:02 PM
haha im not saying I don't want to give up middlebrooks (well I am), but the Redsox won't... think, why would they trade youkilis to trade WMB? Exactly they aren't going to.

My point is the Sox could easily get him without giving him up, unless you just want to ignore all their other assets (some superior to WMB in talent)

papipapsmanny
07-03-2012, 06:07 PM
Just because you don't want to give up Middlebrooks doesn't mean the Phillies won't get him. The Rangers and Tigers are said to be interested and they have nice 3B prospects that the Phillies could get. If the Phillies couldn't get what they want from other teams they would possibly accept a lesser offer from Boston. 3B is the Phillies biggest need and with two teams that are pursuing Hamels have a top 3B piece, the phillies won't settle for what Boston would give without including Middlebrooks.

Then they would be fools, because Xander Bogaerts and Garin Cecchini are great 3B Prospects. What I am saying the Sox are not going to trade WMB I can almost say that for sure using the simple logic that they Trade Youkilis so that he could start, they won't trade him. I have no idea what the philles would accept nor do you, nor do we have any indication of that they would and won't accept.

Plus in the very unlikely event that the sox did offer WMB... I think the additional pieces included in the deal would be very marginal. He is 23 with a .371 wOBA so it would be WMB and 4 other good pieces.

But he won't be traded anyways

koldjerky
07-03-2012, 06:16 PM
I understand that they may not be willing to get him but if the Rangers or Tigers are willing to give up Olt/Castellanos (close to MLB ready and in Olt's case could start next season) for Hamels I think the Red Sox would have to give up someone closer to MLB ready. Bogaerts looks nice but I don't think he'd be coming up for a couple more seasons. Phillies need guys to come in and help right away.

Olt seems like the best case scenario.

papipapsmanny
07-03-2012, 07:09 PM
I don't care either way honestly I don't want the Sox to do it that much. I rather them go after anibal Sanchez, who is very undervalued

ciaban
07-03-2012, 08:05 PM
there is a little irony here, in that come this winter Cole will be the first starter off the market and he will set the table for every other contract negotiations, however this summer, i feel Brandon McCarthy is the premier target, because he is a very good pitcher but will cost a whole lot less, followed by ryan dempster, and then Cole will probably be the last to be dealt.

Nabeshin
07-03-2012, 08:16 PM
Mets ;)

1903
07-03-2012, 08:22 PM
Kei Igawa, Pavano busted Porsche, gift basket from Jeter, and a autographed A-Rod centaur painting. Should get it done.

WrightStuff82
07-04-2012, 03:49 AM
People are way overrating what the Phillies are going to fetch for Hamels. There's a risk he won't be back next year and with the new CBA, whoever trades for him (and doesn't re-sign him to 7-year $150m) are going to get stiffed bigtime on prospects, where in the past you could replace marginal B prospects, you won't this time.

There's lots of good 2nd-tier guys that'll be available cheaper. This Middlebrooks, Olt, Bogaerts talk is asinine.

hagausaf
07-04-2012, 02:57 PM
People are way overrating what the Phillies are going to fetch for Hamels. There's a risk he won't be back next year and with the new CBA, whoever trades for him (and doesn't re-sign him to 7-year $150m) are going to get stiffed bigtime on prospects, where in the past you could replace marginal B prospects, you won't this time.

There's lots of good 2nd-tier guys that'll be available cheaper. This Middlebrooks, Olt, Bogaerts talk is asinine.

totally agree and im hearing the same talk about what the Brewers want for Grienke. It's crazy to think they're asking for 2-3 great to good prospects for rentals

Ender
07-04-2012, 03:06 PM
Pretty sure he should be traded, not sure I want RAJ trading him (See; Lee to SEA).

Ender
07-04-2012, 03:11 PM
And saw a few "Phils won't contend again any time soon..." posts. Please don't forget CBP is a license to print money. There will be a down year here and there (see; 2012) but we now have the wherewithal to kickstart any rebuilding program with FA's.

As a guy who's been watching the Phils since the late 70's, this is an absolute Godsend.

long ball
07-04-2012, 03:27 PM
I hope they don't seriously entertain offers. I want Greinke to be the best pitcher available.

ciaban
07-04-2012, 03:46 PM
totally agree and im hearing the same talk about what the Brewers want for Grienke. It's crazy to think they're asking for 2-3 great to good prospects for rentals

here is the problem, if cole or grienke walk then their teams will get a 1st or early 2 round pick and a supplemental pick, basicly the equivalent of 2 top 50-60 picks, so for them to trade these guys they need to get minor league prospects back that are of equivalent value to these two top 50 picks, and maybe a 3rd lower tier guy, the real question, is "what kind of quality minor league player is equivalent to a top 50 pick"? does the guy need to be a top 20 prospect like tyler skaggs to equal a 1st rounder or would someone like zach lee be more equal to a first rounder? and since this system is brand new, we will see in the next few years what that difference is.

so is it wrong for these teams to be asking for 2-3 great to good prospects, idk maybe it is, but like all things capitalism the market will decide.

es0terik
07-06-2012, 01:58 PM
I don't care either way honestly I don't want the Sox to do it that much. I rather them go after anibal Sanchez, who is very undervalued

HEY! YOU STAY AWAY FROM MY ANIBAL! I've been content with the fact that nobody else has noticed him yet and have been hoping the Jays swoop down and snatch him.

mark1125
07-06-2012, 02:05 PM
Rangers have the minor legue depth and the need to do this. Olt, Profar, Perez, etc. They have some nice names to send back.

Tigers have an outside shot, but I think they would want him to sign an extension before they make a deal. Outside of a couple high end specs, their system is a bit thin and I don't see them mortgaging that for a rental.

Honestly, I don't see Hamels getting moved although I think they should if the offer makes sense.

NY_Heartbreak
07-06-2012, 02:10 PM
*cough*13 games back*cough*

Fred
07-06-2012, 04:57 PM
13.0 GB division lead
8.5 GB wild card
4.0 GB 4th place in division (guaranteeing them last place @ the ASB)

yes, they should trade Cole...and Vic...and Polly...and Plumpy....and (fill in the blank)....