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dnewguy
06-28-2012, 01:04 PM
Derrick Williams, the former number 2 pick of the T Wolves have been offered for the #2 and #7 picks but both offers were rejected. Williams haven't received much playing time and we cannot really gauge what he is worth. What we do know is that from what we've seen so far he's worth between a bag of a skittles and a early second round draft.

Your thoughts?

JWO35
06-28-2012, 01:06 PM
I would give them the 9th pick...

Hype
06-28-2012, 01:08 PM
I think you need to see what Kevin Love has turned into, what's that worth? We were getting shady offers for him too before he got playing time via the Al Jefferson trade, which we've now turned into a 1st rounder plus Chase Buddinger

Hawkeye15
06-28-2012, 01:08 PM
He is worth 6-8 in this draft. If I am the Wolves, I am not trading him for a pick, his value is bound to rise this year. He should be a better player.

AI4MVP
06-28-2012, 01:16 PM
hes worth the 5th-ish

kenzo400
06-28-2012, 01:16 PM
I have a feeling Adelman will screw up his career. It's better to trade him now. I don't know what he was thinking playing him at PF during the year.

Jint.
06-28-2012, 01:17 PM
Landry Fields and 3 fish tacos

Swashcuff
06-28-2012, 01:18 PM
Really no need to start a thread to ask this question. Should just simply ask Hawkeye15 via PM.

PleaseBeNice
06-28-2012, 01:20 PM
Eh late lotto pick

StarvingKnick22
06-28-2012, 01:25 PM
i'll give you 10 cents and a cookie for him

dnewguy
06-28-2012, 01:26 PM
Eh late lotto pick

Sounds about right and maybe i'll toss in a #3 at burger king and no cheese.....anything beyond that and i'm hanging up the phone. If you cannot breakthrough in Minnesota, you probably are not worth much.

chicago lulz
06-28-2012, 01:31 PM
Landry Fields and 3 fish tacos

I'd do it just for the fish tacos, because they're the best.

topdog
06-28-2012, 01:33 PM
Thank you once again main forum for your wonderful insight!

Sincerely, -Guy Who Feels Like a Basketball Genius in Here

mvb815
06-28-2012, 01:35 PM
if i'm the raptors i'd trade the 8th pick for him in a second, dude has a lot of upside and a year experience

SluggeR
06-28-2012, 01:41 PM
Any team that is considering picking Henson with their lottery pick, should trade for him.

Sota4Ever
06-28-2012, 01:42 PM
Sounds about right and maybe i'll toss in a #3 at burger king and no cheese.....anything beyond that and i'm hanging up the phone. If you cannot breakthrough in Minnesota, you probably are not worth much.

You are so smart!!

lilchuckdoubles
06-28-2012, 01:45 PM
it's funny how the knicks guy will only give 10 cents for d-will. How much were ya'll willing to give for stoudemire lol!!

Losoway
06-28-2012, 01:49 PM
derrick williams is good .... he just cant get no minutes behind kevin love .

black1605
06-28-2012, 01:50 PM
Any team that is considering picking Henson with their lottery pick, should trade for him.

This sounds about right.

AI4MVP
06-28-2012, 01:53 PM
it's funny how the knicks guy will only give 10 cents for d-will. How much were ya'll willing to give for stoudemire lol!!

I love when Knicks fan say that an almost 30 year old, washed up, expensive Amar'e Stoudemire is worth the 2nd pick but a 21 year old,monster athetlic top 2 pick whose only downfall was a difficult roster situation is not.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:

natelpete
06-28-2012, 02:00 PM
He showed a few flashes last year, a couple 27 point games in limited minutes. If I'm Khan, I keep him for another year, his value can go up quit a bit.

IndyRealist
06-28-2012, 02:11 PM
I would think teams are hedging on him because you would hope a #2 pick would stand out, but Williams has been a bit below average. He's below average at every single shooting percentage, along with assists, turnovers, blocks, and steals. He is a slightly above average on rebounds, fouls, and getting to the free throw line.

He's got all the tools to be a star, but he's inefficient across the board. He basically has to improve at everything.

iamsteel
06-28-2012, 02:12 PM
I wouldn't trade him. He's already lost 10 pounds, and wants to lose another 5-10 so he can play the 3 spot. He can score from anywhere, but just looked a step slow at times on D. He reminds me exactly of a more athletic Paul Pierce.

Hawkeye15
06-28-2012, 02:13 PM
I wouldn't trade him. He's already lost 10 pounds, and wants to lose another 5-10 so he can play the 3 spot. He can score from anywhere, but just looked a step slow at times on D. He reminds me exactly of a more athletic Paul Pierce.

he reminds me of Michael Beasley with a brain.

spreadeagle
06-28-2012, 02:18 PM
as a Raps fan id be happy if they traded the 8th for him...we need a sf

natelpete
06-28-2012, 02:24 PM
he reminds me of Michael Beasley with a brain.

I think it would help if DWill lost a few lbs, he's not too big by any means, but it looks like he could drop a few and add to this athleticism.

C_Mund
06-28-2012, 02:41 PM
as a Raps fan id be happy if they traded the 8th for him...we need a sf

I'm on board with that. I'm also a Wildcats fan so it'd be nice to see the Raps represent

GiantsSwaGG
06-28-2012, 03:15 PM
Who?

ElFuturoDeESPN
06-28-2012, 03:28 PM
Here's a question for Timberwolves fans because I'm legitimately interested in this kid's skillset..

How much does his value fluctuate when viewed as a PF and then re-viewed as a SF?

Or does that even matter? I haven't seen enough of him to know, which is why I ask. Gracias, dudes.

thekmp211
06-28-2012, 03:39 PM
he is undervalued right now. i think he is going to have a much better second season.

RC3
06-28-2012, 03:44 PM
Derrick Williams was pretty overrated last year. The "experts" said he would score 20 points a game and he was the most NBA ready player in the draft.

RandyRandy
06-28-2012, 03:47 PM
Here's a question for Timberwolves fans because I'm legitimately interested in this kid's skillset..

How much does his value fluctuate when viewed as a PF and then re-viewed as a SF?

Or does that even matter? I haven't seen enough of him to know, which is why I ask. Gracias, dudes.

I feel he has more upside at the SF than at the PF. However, he was very inconsistant shooting all year long. He shot about 41 percent from the floor and 26 percent from behind the arc.

There were a few times where he looked like Lebron James (for a quarter anyway against the Clippers, to name one), but often times he would disappear in games and would be a non factor.

I think a whole off season working with the team and staff will help him greatly. Seems like thats an excuse for a lot of players who didn't live up to potential last year, but I truly believe that. If he loses some weight and gain some quickness so he can defend the perimeter, i think he will breakout next year. He will shoot better. His stock is as low as it can get right now so I'd rather have the Wolves keep him, start him at the 3 next year and see where that takes them.

drobe86
06-28-2012, 03:51 PM
I feel he has more upside at the SF than at the PF. However, he was very inconsistant shooting all year long. He shot about 41 percent from the floor and 26 percent from behind the arc.

There were a few times where he looked like Lebron James (for a quarter anyway against the Clippers, to name one), but often times he would disappear in games and would be a non factor.

I think a whole off season working with the team and staff will help him greatly. Seems like thats an excuse for a lot of players who didn't live up to potential last year, but I truly believe that. If he loses some weight and gain some quickness so he can defend the perimeter, i think he will breakout next year. He will shoot better. His stock is as low as it can get right now so I'd rather have the Wolves keep him, start him at the 3 next year and see where that takes them.


If I'm the Mavs I call them up and offer pick #17 right now. Williams is a player and people on here are acting crazy. He's got a bright future in the league, and ppl are making there assumptions off year 1. What if people gave up on Rondo after 1 year? How about Steve Nash? People act like guys don't get better over time. Like he's already at his NBA peak after being in the league for 1 season.

WickedBadMan
06-28-2012, 03:54 PM
Wolves would be dumb to deal him for anything less than a top ten IMO.

WickedBadMan
06-28-2012, 03:56 PM
if i'm the mavs i call them up and offer pick #17 right now. Williams is a player and people on here are acting crazy. He's got a bright future in the league, and ppl are making there assumptions off year 1. What if people gave up on rondo after 1 year? How about steve nash? People act like guys don't get better over time. Like he's already at his nba peak after being in the league for 1 season.

+1

WolvesJagsOs
06-28-2012, 03:59 PM
Derrick Williams was pretty overrated last year. The "experts" said he would score 20 points a game and he was the most NBA ready player in the draft.

Maybe its because he was on the same team as Kevin Love...who played the same position as him. Just a thought...

topdog
06-28-2012, 04:02 PM
If I'm the Mavs I call them up and offer pick #17 right now. Williams is a player and people on here are acting crazy. He's got a bright future in the league, and ppl are making there assumptions off year 1. What if people gave up on Rondo after 1 year? How about Steve Nash? People act like guys don't get better over time. Like he's already at his NBA peak after being in the league for 1 season.

Why? To get hung up on? The rumor is that Williams has been offered for the 2 and 7 picks and we don't know for sure the legitimacy or details of the discussion.

Minnesota doesn't undervalue Williams. The yahoos in this main forum are just the usual idiots who don't know anything about anyone outside of their team.

Williams definitely has some talent and was worth last year's #2 pick. The biggest issue for him was finding his niche on a Wolves team that was trying to compete for the playoffs behind Love, Rubio and Pekovic. Rookie mistakes could not be afforded and Williams confidence and motor waned. Dropping some pounds should help him whether he is a future 3 or 4 because anyone who saw the dunk contest noticed his fatigue on his final jam.

Hawkeye15
06-28-2012, 04:02 PM
Derrick Williams was pretty overrated last year. The "experts" said he would score 20 points a game and he was the most NBA ready player in the draft.

never saw the 20 a night claim, but Derrick was also asked to play out of position much of the time, not given playing time consistently, and struggled finding a role. He will be better this year, with a full offseason, training camp, and Coach Adelman integrating him in more, now that he understands some of his strengths and weaknesses.

RandyRandy
06-28-2012, 04:02 PM
If I'm the Mavs I call them up and offer pick #17 right now. Williams is a player and people on here are acting crazy. He's got a bright future in the league, and ppl are making there assumptions off year 1. What if people gave up on Rondo after 1 year? How about Steve Nash? People act like guys don't get better over time. Like he's already at his NBA peak after being in the league for 1 season.

And if I'm the Wolves I respectfully decline that offer. There is no way I would give him up for anything less than a top 8 pick. Not after one year, the Wolves need to be patient with him and see how he does this year.

I agree with you on all counts. You could call him a prototypical NBA "tweener." These types of players development usually takes more time.

Not saying he will ever be a super star or even an all star in this league, but I am not willing to give up on him after one year.

FarOutIos
06-28-2012, 04:05 PM
Tyreke?

drobe86
06-28-2012, 04:06 PM
And if I'm the Wolves I respectfully decline that offer. There is no way I would give him up for anything less than a top 8 pick. Not after one year, the Wolves need to be patient with him and see how he does this year.

I agree with you on all counts. You could call him a prototypical NBA "tweener." These types of players development usually takes more time.

Not saying he will ever be a super star or even an all star in this league, but I am not willing to give up on him after one year.

Not willing to give up a top 10 pick for him. If I've got a top 1 0 pick I'll just pick someone that's available in the top 10 of this draft lol. He's good, but you're overvaluing him now. I'd point to the fact that if you thought he was so good, then you wouldn't be trying to move him.

Hawkeye15
06-28-2012, 04:10 PM
Not willing to give up a top 10 pick for him. If I've got a top 1 0 pick I'll just pick someone that's available in the top 10 of this draft lol. He's good, but you're overvaluing him now. I'd point to the fact that if you thought he was so good, then you wouldn't be trying to move him.

The problem with trying to trade Williams is nearly any scout or fan will tell you that Williams will be a much improved player most likely over last year. So right now, his value does not represent what it should. Which is why, as a Wolves fan, I am not down trading him at the moment. I think long term we have no choice, he is a PF in all reality, and with Love there he won't ever get the full opportunity to expand his game, but his current value does not represent where it will be in a year or less imo. The Wolves should hold onto him at the moment, and see what they can get for him next year.

RandyRandy
06-28-2012, 04:16 PM
Not willing to give up a top 10 pick for him. If I've got a top 1 0 pick I'll just pick someone that's available in the top 10 of this draft lol. He's good, but you're overvaluing him now. I'd point to the fact that if you thought he was so good, then you wouldn't be trying to move him.
It would be too lateral of a move for the Wolves to trade him for a trade pick other than a top five pick. Trading him and getting a Waiters, Lamb, Ross, or Harkless doesn't do it for me as a Wolves fan, as they not have the upside or potential DW has, IMO. He was drafted at number 2 for a reason, albeit in a much worse draft class.

You could very well be right, maybe he is not worth a top 10 in this years draft, but as a Wolves fan I am not willing to give him up for that value. Why give up on him after a year? Like I said his value is pretty low right now, so I would rather see how this next season plays out. He is bound to improve and after next year I am sure he would be worth much more than the 17th pick.

RandyRandy
06-28-2012, 04:17 PM
The problem with trying to trade Williams is nearly any scout or fan will tell you that Williams will be a much improved player most likely over last year. So right now, his value does not represent what it should. Which is why, as a Wolves fan, I am not down trading him at the moment. I think long term we have no choice, he is a PF in all reality, and with Love there he won't ever get the full opportunity to expand his game, but his current value does not represent where it will be in a year or less imo. The Wolves should hold onto him at the moment, and see what they can get for him next year.

beat me to it my friend.

jtrinaldi
06-28-2012, 04:19 PM
2 tins of Red Man

topdog
06-28-2012, 04:19 PM
Not willing to give up a top 10 pick for him. If I've got a top 1 0 pick I'll just pick someone that's available in the top 10 of this draft lol. He's good, but you're overvaluing him now. I'd point to the fact that if you thought he was so good, then you wouldn't be trying to move him.

If players were only ever moved for more talented players, then no one would trade with each other. It's about fit. Williams was the 2nd best talent last year, but 3/4 isn't exactly where the Wolves would like that talent. Love is going to take the majority of the minutes at the 4 and Budinger and Wes Johnson can hold down the 3. Meanwhile, there is a gaping whole at the 2 spot. That is why the Wolves are talking trade.

Rain City
06-28-2012, 04:21 PM
minny is looking for the most valuable white guy they can get for d will.... they love white guys.

popo85
06-28-2012, 04:21 PM
Top 10 pick

Hawkeye15
06-28-2012, 04:28 PM
If players were only ever moved for more talented players, then no one would trade with each other. It's about fit. Williams was the 2nd best talent last year, but 3/4 isn't exactly where the Wolves would like that talent. Love is going to take the majority of the minutes at the 4 and Budinger and Wes Johnson can hold down the 3. Meanwhile, there is a gaping whole at the 2 spot. That is why the Wolves are talking trade.

stop mentioning him in our lineup. I don't want to see him getting minutes unless they create a new NBA award, "Most Improved Ever".

topdog
06-28-2012, 04:29 PM
stop mentioning him in our lineup. I don't want to see him getting minutes unless they create a new NBA award, "Most Improved Ever".

:laugh: That would be an awesome award! Let's go Wes - Good job. Good effort :D

topdog
06-28-2012, 04:31 PM
stop mentioning him in our lineup. I don't want to see him getting minutes unless they create a new NBA award, "Most Improved Ever".

You miss Corey Brewer. I miss Rodney Carney :p

Hawkeye15
06-28-2012, 04:33 PM
You miss Corey Brewer. I miss Rodney Carney :p

I did have to take a cold shower when the following muttered out of my mouth this season, "Man, what I wouldn't give to have Corey Brewer on this team over Wes Johnson". Anyone who was around in the Wolves forum over that span knows Brewer was my whipping boy. But hell, he is far better than Wes.

iamsteel
06-28-2012, 06:40 PM
I did have to take a cold shower when the following muttered out of my mouth this season, "Man, what I wouldn't give to have Corey Brewer on this team over Wes Johnson". Anyone who was around in the Wolves forum over that span knows Brewer was my whipping boy. But hell, he is far better than Wes.

I would love to have Brewer back. I was never on your side on bashing him so much.

D Will was offered for the #2 pick so Kahn will only deal him for someone of real value. I'm sure other scouts in the league also know his value is still pretty high too. If budinger is worth the 18h, which I think he is, then Williams is worth more than the 17th. Possibly mayo, deng, or maybe Derozen would be near equal.

Chronz
06-28-2012, 07:37 PM
Didnt think his value was this low

Hawkeye15
06-28-2012, 07:41 PM
Didnt think his value was this low

I think this draft is being overrated, which coupled with Williams value being as low as it is right now, presents what is happening.

Chronz
06-28-2012, 08:20 PM
I think this draft is being overrated, which coupled with Williams value being as low as it is right now, presents what is happening.
I agree, which is another reason why Kahn strikes me as an inept GM. Hes the one who got rejected (according to this rumor), that either says something about Williams or about Kahn. Which do you think?

Hawkeye15
06-28-2012, 08:41 PM
I agree, which is another reason why Kahn strikes me as an inept GM. Hes the one who got rejected (according to this rumor), that either says something about Williams or about Kahn. Which do you think?

I will find the link if you wish, but I read Kahn is getting far more calls for Williams then he is placing. He is a great trade chip, but Kahn needs to hold steady and realize unless a sure thing comes along, what is the point?

Chronz
06-28-2012, 09:17 PM
I will find the link if you wish, but I read Kahn is getting far more calls for Williams then he is placing. He is a great trade chip, but Kahn needs to hold steady and realize unless a sure thing comes along, what is the point?
What does that have to do with him being rejected on the trade he wanted?

Bravo95
06-29-2012, 01:14 AM
I agree, which is another reason why Kahn strikes me as an inept GM. Hes the one who got rejected (according to this rumor), that either says something about Williams or about Kahn. Which do you think?
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/gm-ratings/

WolvesJagsOs
06-29-2012, 02:32 AM
What does that have to do with him being rejected on the trade he wanted?

What's wrong with trying to trade him to go up and grab a guy that fits a need as well as great value in Beal? I would have done the same thing. I like Williams quite a bit, but there's no denying he plays the same position as our best player in Kevin Love, and until he shows he can play the 3, he is definitely moveable.

naps
06-29-2012, 02:56 AM
Sounds about right and maybe i'll toss in a #3 at burger king and no cheese.....anything beyond that and i'm hanging up the phone. If you cannot breakthrough in Minnesota, you probably are not worth much.

Like it's really easy to breakthrough when your team has the best power forward in the league which happens to be your position as well?

Hawkeye15
06-29-2012, 10:31 AM
What does that have to do with him being rejected on the trade he wanted?

Morey gets rejected all the time. That is what happens when you overshoot dude.

AddiX
06-29-2012, 10:51 AM
I don't agree with a lot of khans decisions, but calling him inept because of a rumor he was denied, even if the rumor is true, makes no sense.

With that said, I still don't really understand what minny is trying to build over there.

Chronz
06-29-2012, 11:32 AM
Morey gets rejected all the time. That is what happens when you overshoot dude.

Thats my point. He overshot on D-Will for something we both find paltry. Its why I asked my initial question. It either says something about D-Will (because he was rejected for a #7) or it says something about Kahn (because he OFFERED a player we both feel is worth more for such little value) .

Chronz
06-29-2012, 11:34 AM
I don't agree with a lot of khans decisions, but calling him inept because of a rumor he was denied, even if the rumor is true, makes no sense.

With that said, I still don't really understand what minny is trying to build over there.
Well that depends on what you think of D-Will. If you feel the way Hawk and I feel about his value, then it makes no sense why you would offer him up now when his value is surely to rise within the year.

Either we are both wrong about D-Will, and hes actually not as great (good?) of a prospect as we believe, or Kahn is cashing in at the wrong time.

Chronz
06-29-2012, 11:43 AM
What's wrong with trying to trade him to go up and grab a guy that fits a need as well as great value in Beal? I would have done the same thing. I like Williams quite a bit, but there's no denying he plays the same position as our best player in Kevin Love, and until he shows he can play the 3, he is definitely moveable.
According to this he tried to grab the #7 pick and got rejected, which seems like the man has low value.

Hawkeye15
06-29-2012, 11:54 AM
Thats my point. He overshot on D-Will for something we both find paltry. Its why I asked my initial question. It either says something about D-Will (because he was rejected for a #7) or it says something about Kahn (because he OFFERED a player we both feel is worth more for such little value) .

I really feel D-Will's value is just that low currently. It's not worth trading him at the moment, unless it's part of a package for an established all star talent. Otherwise, let him have a full offseason and season of hopeful and expected improvement, and see what his value is at that point.

Hawkeye15
06-29-2012, 11:55 AM
But yes Chronz, Kahn obviously just found out what Williams value is. And it's not that of a top 7 pick in this draft.

Chronz
06-29-2012, 12:01 PM
I really feel D-Will's value is just that low currently. It's not worth trading him at the moment, unless it's part of a package for an established all star talent. Otherwise, let him have a full offseason and season of hopeful and expected improvement, and see what his value is at that point.
I know that, we both feel that way. Its why Im questioning his move. Hes trying to cash in his best trade asset that hes willing to part with at a moment when hes not even worth the #7 pick. Allegedly at least. If its true it either tells us that D-Will isnt as valuable as we think he can be and that Kahn is right in trying to cash in, or that Kahn is making the wrong move in selling his own prospect short.

Hawkeye15
06-29-2012, 12:08 PM
I know that, we both feel that way. Its why Im questioning his move. Hes trying to cash in his best trade asset that hes willing to part with at a moment when hes not even worth the #7 pick. Allegedly at least.

Glen Taylor, the Wolves owner, has publically said he is trying to start selling the team to someone who will stay in Minneapolis. Rick Adelman is 66, and on his last deal. David Kahn is in his last year of his contract. The Wolves have publically shifted to "win now" mode, so expect a lot of rumors to pop up with them attempting to overextend their assets.

The Wolves have a nice 2 man core of Love/Rubio (I think Rubio going forward is a key player), and hopefully can keep Pekovic. Kahn is not capable of building a roster through the draft, so now comes the attempts at trading for an all star caliber player with what he has. He was supposedly trying to trade up to pick #2, and throw that and Beasley in a SnT at the Lakers for Gasol.

Chronz
06-29-2012, 12:11 PM
Alot hinges on Rubio being able to recover instantly if they trade for Pau.

Hawkeye15
06-29-2012, 12:19 PM
Alot hinges on Rubio being able to recover instantly if they trade for Pau.

For sure. Along with Pekovic not regressing. But yeah dude, Rubio will be the key with Pau under contract for 2 years, and starting on the downside. The frontcourt PF/C rotation would destroy most teams, but come playoffs its a whole different animal.

thekmp211
06-29-2012, 05:19 PM
Alot hinges on Rubio being able to recover instantly if they trade for Pau.


For sure. Along with Pekovic not regressing. But yeah dude, Rubio will be the key with Pau under contract for 2 years, and starting on the downside. The frontcourt PF/C rotation would destroy most teams, but come playoffs its a whole different animal.

is this likely to happen? who are the flipping to LA?

Hawkeye15
06-29-2012, 05:21 PM
is this likely to happen? who are the flipping to LA?

Its just in a lot of rumors that Kahn is shooting for Gasol, and Williams would be the starting point.

thekmp211
06-29-2012, 05:22 PM
Its just in a lot of rumors that Kahn is shooting for Gasol, and Williams would be the starting point.

yeah just saw the other thread, i'm a bit distracted. seems like a decent trade for both sides.