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View Full Version : The C and SG position in the NBA.



Longhornfan1234
06-27-2012, 12:28 AM
Center: Right now all we have is Dwight Howard as far as centers that are top players. Compared to past Centers.
What has caused the center position in NBA to be so weak? The athletes are there...but there is no skill. Why? AAU basketball? College Coaching?



Shooting Guard: Anyone noticing the talent drop off here? We have two aging greats in Kobe and Wade. After that it's probably Ginobli (past his prime) and....Harden? Joe Johnson? Eric Gordon? Who are the rising stars? At one point we had T-Mac, Vince Carter, Kobe, Ray Allen, etc. Seems like all the elite and young perimeter talent is playing SF or PG now.

Shareeb_omac2
06-27-2012, 12:43 AM
SG used to be the premier position.

Now days it seems like everyone has a talented PG.

justinnum1
06-27-2012, 12:46 AM
did you just refer to wade as one of the greats?

Longhornfan1234
06-27-2012, 12:50 AM
did you just refer to wade as one of the greats?

A Top 50 player of all-time is great, right?

blastmasta26
06-27-2012, 12:52 AM
The center drop off is often discussed, but the SG decline not so much. It's odd too, because although some PGs could probably make great SGs, they are not prototypical.

It'sMyTime
06-27-2012, 01:02 AM
The rules have changed allowing super athletic point guards to take over the game, thats why the decline in SG talent imo.

SugeKnight
06-27-2012, 01:04 AM
Longhornfan giving wade props???

naps
06-27-2012, 01:06 AM
A Top 50 player of all-time is great, right?

More like top 100. He sucks.

Glen20
06-27-2012, 01:09 AM
The rules have changed allowing super athletic point guards to take over the game, thats why the decline in SG talent imo.

that's where the SG talent went

ThunderousDemon
06-27-2012, 01:09 AM
A Top 50 player of all-time is great, right?

I don't know, you tell me wise guy.

DerekRE_3
06-27-2012, 01:14 AM
Just wait for Boogie time.

sixer04fan
06-27-2012, 01:15 AM
Centers and shooting guards are incredibly weak right now. Centers have been noticeably weak for a while now, but I think the shooting guard position is actually even more shallow at this point in time.

Point guards, on the other hand, are incredible. This might be the richest time period ever seen at the position. Paul, Rose, Rondo, Parker, Williams, Westbrook, all superstars leading the way, along with legends like Nash and Kidd still kicking, and solid guys like Andre Miller still getting it done... And young guns like Holiday, Wall, Conley, Curry, Jennings, Collison, Lin, Chalmers, Felton, etc... And I know I left some guys out, but the position is ridiculously good right now. Those first 8 names I mentioned alone could all arguably be looked back on as top 15-20 or better at their position all time by the time they retire. And they're all playing now. Insane.

Htownballa1622
06-27-2012, 01:15 AM
did you just refer to wade as one of the greats?

i did a double take too. lol.

Longhornfan1234
06-27-2012, 01:25 AM
More like top 100. He sucks.

:facepalm:

He's overrated...but he doesn't suck.

IndyRealist
06-27-2012, 01:27 AM
The rules have changed allowing super athletic point guards to take over the game, thats why the decline in SG talent imo.

And PG's have the ball in their hands to start almost every play, so they have the opportunity to call their own number.

Raph12
06-27-2012, 02:02 AM
The SG position is the weakest in the league, even weaker than the centers...

ThunderousDemon
06-27-2012, 02:07 AM
:facepalm:

He's overrated...but he doesn't suck.

Overrated by you.

Delusional
06-27-2012, 02:20 AM
The SG position is being diminished by point guards who could be shooting guards like Deron Williams and Russell Westbrook, great athletes who are just a bit too small to guard the bigger two-guards like Harden or Joe Johnson. It's the big thing to find these "combo guards" or "tweeners" as they have the size to take on bigger PGs/smaller SGs and can both initiate offense if needed.

Centers, well... That's a good one. Seeing that the NBA is a big man's game, it's hard to explain their downfall. But my guess would be similar to what's happening at the 1-2 guard positions. We're seeing power forwards who are playing a lot more at center, players like Kevin Garnett and Chris Bosh for example. They've got more athleticism than most centers and they can stretch the defense with the outside range that they possess. How good was Amare Stoudemire in Phoenix when he was playing center? He was fantastic. His athletic ability allowed him the advantage over bigger, slower bigs and he could make you pay from mid-range. But these guys all have the title of power forward, yet they're playing center, or were at one time.

To me it's the trend of having tweener players are what are really diminishing the value of the 2 and 5.

kubernetes
06-27-2012, 02:36 AM
Yeah, I think the good SG talent has gravitated to PG, especially nowadays when PGs don't necessarily have to have great handles. Look at Rose and Westbrook--their playing styles are more SG. I'm guessing that if Wade entered the league today he'd be repurposed as a PG. (and yes, even though I've grown to dislike him, Wade is a great player)

StarvingKnick22
06-27-2012, 08:09 AM
We have Horford who is pretty young in the NBA and Enes Katner, Andrew Bynum. At SG we have Iman Shumpert, Landry Fields, Rodney Stuckey, etc.

KnicksTape
06-27-2012, 08:35 AM
Demarcus Cousins is a pretty talented center ...

canefandynasty
06-27-2012, 08:44 AM
:facepalm:

He's overrated...but he doesn't suck.

Nah, he sucks. TOP 100 is a reach...TOP 150 is more like it.

Hellcrooner
06-27-2012, 08:48 AM
The answer OP is looking for is MJ.
Rules where changed to make guards and Sf succed because they find them more marketable.

Btw straight from H.S and one and dones are not helping.

Centers need MORE time invested to developing their skills.

Also Guards have developed a selfihness adn they dotn really get the ball inside.

There are Many centers that could be averaging 22-25 a game if they got to shoot enough for it.

BSardogan
06-27-2012, 08:52 AM
Cousins is going to be good, Drummond is going to be a beast or bust, then you have Horford, Bynum, Hibbert that could all be legit all-star centers. Agree that that's no Olajuwon, Shaq, Robinson and Duncan group of players.

As for shooting guard, just look at the upcoming draft. Beal is a can't-miss, Ray Allen-like prospect. Waiters, Lamb, Ross and Rivers are all talented and have the potential to be really good. I agree outside of Beal none of those guys have a shot at being listed next to Kobe, Wade, Carter or Iverson, but it's certainly better than the last few draft classes in terms of talent at SG.

BALLER R
06-27-2012, 09:04 AM
Thought i was the only one that noticed that about the SG position.

Swashcuff
06-27-2012, 09:39 AM
Injuries has undone both positions.

Greg Oden, Andrew Bynum, Andrew Bougt, Yao Ming, etc these players while not being on the echelon of the players of the 90s all have all world potential and its a shame that they haven't been able to stay on the floor enough to prove this.

As for the SG more of the same. T-Mac broke down before we would have liked (could have still been a top 10 SG today he was just that good) Brandon Roy, Eric Gordon, Gilbert Arenas (if you want to class him as an SG), Kevin Martin, Michael Redd etc.

Injuries has been the biggest hit to these two positions. They have been hit like no other and in comparison to the 90s they have both been underwhelming.

As for Crooner's lame excuse of its because of Jordan, I call horesh**!!!

Had all these players not been plagued with injuries and been able to stay on the floor and be productive we'd be speaking differently of these respective positions.

thenaj17
06-27-2012, 10:05 AM
The SG position is being diminished by point guards who could be shooting guards like Deron Williams and Russell Westbrook, great athletes who are just a bit too small to guard the bigger two-guards like Harden or Joe Johnson. It's the big thing to find these "combo guards" or "tweeners" as they have the size to take on bigger PGs/smaller SGs and can both initiate offense if needed.

Centers, well... That's a good one. Seeing that the NBA is a big man's game, it's hard to explain their downfall. But my guess would be similar to what's happening at the 1-2 guard positions. We're seeing power forwards who are playing a lot more at center, players like Kevin Garnett and Chris Bosh for example. They've got more athleticism than most centers and they can stretch the defense with the outside range that they possess. How good was Amare Stoudemire in Phoenix when he was playing center? He was fantastic. His athletic ability allowed him the advantage over bigger, slower bigs and he could make you pay from mid-range. But these guys all have the title of power forward, yet they're playing center, or were at one time.

To me it's the trend of having tweener players are what are really diminishing the value of the 2 and 5.

I'd definitely have to agree with this!

tp13baby
06-27-2012, 10:28 AM
We have Horford who is pretty young in the NBA and Enes Katner, Andrew Bynum. At SG we have Iman Shumpert, Landry Fields, Rodney Stuckey, etc.

Thats the best young shooting guard talent you can come up with homer?

Hellcrooner
06-27-2012, 10:35 AM
To be honest current centers are Much better that those we had in the early and mid 00s.

Howard, M Gasol, Bynum, Noah, Horford, Chandler, Lopez etc

are better than the

Dampiers, Lafrents, nesterovics, Prizbillas,L wrights B Millers, very very old ewing/hakeem/Divac that there were then,

StarvingKnick22
06-27-2012, 11:30 AM
Thats the best young shooting guard talent you can come up with homer? kind of yeah

Longhornfan1234
06-27-2012, 11:34 AM
Nah, he sucks. TOP 100 is a reach...TOP 150 is more like it.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:.

25/5/7/2 over 8 prime seasons, 2-time NBA Champion ,8-time All-Star, 7-time All-NBA selection, 3-time All-Defensive team selection, 3rd in 2009 MVP voting.,2006 Finals MVP, and 14-6 career record in playoff series.


He's a borderline top 50 player of all-time.

StinkEye
06-27-2012, 11:35 AM
our PGs are the same guys who were considered combo guards 10 years ago.

Swashcuff
06-27-2012, 11:48 AM
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:.

25/5/7/2 over 8 prime seasons, 2-time NBA Champion ,8-time All-Star, 7-time All-NBA selection, 3-time All-Defensive team selection, 3rd in 2009 MVP voting.,2006 Finals MVP, and 14-6 career record in playoff series.


He's a borderline top 50 player of all-time.

Those defensive selections were overrated because he can block a shot or two here and there... thats not really hard to do anybody can get blocked. All star is just a popularity contest and he only made the team because he hooked up with Gabrielle Union... those All NBA selections were flukey and he was never the best player on any of his playoff teams that got out of the first round.

Wade is the most fortunate player in league history and you have proven this with your insight on almost every occasion. Don't take back what you said now. Wade isn't a top 200 player of all time.

Longhornfan1234
06-27-2012, 12:03 PM
Those defensive selections were overrated because he can block a shot or two here and there... thats not really hard to do anybody can get blocked. All star is just a popularity contest and he only made the team because he hooked up with Gabrielle Union... those All NBA selections were flukey and he was never the best player on any of his playoff teams that got out of the first round.

Wade is the most fortunate player in league history and you have proven this with your insight on almost every occasion. Don't take back what you said now. Wade isn't a top 200 player of all time.

LMAO, I'm being trolled. You almost had me.

TopsyTurvy
06-27-2012, 12:18 PM
The positions have been diluted as the game has changed. Ranged shooting has become far more vital and that game hasn't been lost on developing bigs - you can see this trend with any number of lanky PF's or C's willing and able to tickle the twine from distance.

As for the SG position, the game has simply changed. There are very few all-pro players that are competent in all facets of the game and specialization has simply taken over. A wing defender that can shoot, may not be able to attack the basket. A slashing scorer simply cannot play defense.

The times are changing and the players are altering their tendencies to fit into the modern game.

Teeboy1487
06-27-2012, 12:34 PM
My jaw is literally on the ground. I had to look twice at the OP to see was that really longhornfan.

I agree. The center position is terrible and all the good ones are injured all the time. The game is so much faster now, I think it's hard for the centers to keep up because of their size. The centers who are athletic and can keep up are not that good except Dwight.

As for SG, they are not these 6'6'' and 6'7'' guys anymore. Most of them are 6'4'' and less. Alot of them are playing PG.

heattiltheend94
06-27-2012, 12:36 PM
I think a number of PGs (who would have used to be SG) are now playing the point. ex: Rose, Westbrook, Jennings, etc.)

heattiltheend94
06-27-2012, 12:39 PM
Those defensive selections were overrated because he can block a shot or two here and there... thats not really hard to do anybody can get blocked. All star is just a popularity contest and he only made the team because he hooked up with Gabrielle Union... those All NBA selections were flukey and he was never the best player on any of his playoff teams that got out of the first round.

Wade is the most fortunate player in league history and you have proven this with your insight on almost every occasion. Don't take back what you said now. Wade isn't a top 200 player of all time.

lol 06????? he wasn't with Union until recently and Wade is a lot more famous than she is. He was in the allstar well before her. In 06, Hollinger and other experts state that was the best Finals performance EVER. Use some facts :facepalm:

mania03
06-27-2012, 12:50 PM
Yeah, I think the good SG talent has gravitated to PG, especially nowadays when PGs don't necessarily have to have great handles. Look at Rose and Westbrook--their playing styles are more SG. I'm guessing that if Wade entered the league today he'd be repurposed as a PG. (and yes, even though I've grown to dislike him, Wade is a great player)

wade entered the league as a point guard. Later transitioned to the 2 guard where he was more effective.

GSWFanInLA
06-27-2012, 01:48 PM
Wade is definitely an all-time great. You have to consider what he did for that franchise.

Swashcuff
06-27-2012, 01:58 PM
lol 06????? he wasn't with Union until recently and Wade is a lot more famous than she is. He was in the allstar well before her. In 06, Hollinger and other experts state that was the best Finals performance EVER. Use some facts :facepalm:

Is that the only things you see wrong with that post? If you know anything about the poster I am dealing with you'd know why I made such a horrible post.

SportsNY
06-27-2012, 03:49 PM
did you just refer to wade as one of the greats?

He's got two rings.

canefandynasty
06-27-2012, 04:51 PM
Wade is definitely an all-time great. You have to consider what he did for that franchise.
It was all refs everyone knows that. If he didn't have the refs and Shaq, he would be Rodney Stuckey and thats being generous. I think Wade is a sissy. He's always looking for calls and flopping. The reason why he has those numbers of 25-5-7 is because of the new handcheck rules. He is not skilled at all. He just goes hard at times thats it. He isn't good on defense either. So what if he blocks shots. That don't mean anything.

I hate Wade because he made fun of Dirk and questioned the Bulls organization. He also thinks hes always entitled to something. He should take his HGH cheeks to a retirement home. He's declining. 26.37 PER in 2011-12 season means nothing. The highest and 8th highest PER in NBA Finals history means nothing. Him making the ECF half his career means nothing. Him being the only player in NBA history with a 25-5-5-1-1 career line also means nothing.

Swashcuff
06-27-2012, 05:17 PM
]It was all refs everyone knows that. [/B]If he didn't have the refs and Shaq, he would be Rodney Stuckey and thats being generous. I think Wade is a sissy. He's always looking for calls and flopping. The reason why he has those numbers of 25-5-7 is because of the new handcheck rules. He is not skilled at all. He just goes hard at times thats it. He isn't good on defense either. So what if he blocks shots. That don't mean anything.

I hate Wade because he made fun of Dirk and questioned the Bulls organization. He also thinks hes always entitled to something. He should take his HGH cheeks to a retirement home. He's declining. 26.37 PER in 2011-12 season means nothing. The highest and 8th highest PER in NBA Finals history means nothing. Him making the ECF half his career means nothing. Him being the only player in NBA history with a 25-5-5-1-1 career line also means nothing.

That's a myth. I'd love to see you prove that and before you tell me go back and watch I urge you to do the same because the refs didn't help the Heat win squat The Mavs helped the Heat more than the refs did in 06.

Also you do know that Wade was putting up 25-5-7 BEFORE the new hand check rules were implemented right? I honestly hope that this was a sarcastic post.

b@llhog24
06-27-2012, 05:40 PM
wade entered the league as a point guard. Later transitioned to the 2 guard where he was more effective.

I may be in the minority here but I think Wade would've been even more dominant at the PG position, but whatever.


It was all refs everyone knows that. If he didn't have the refs and Shaq, he would be Rodney Stuckey and thats being generous. I think Wade is a sissy. He's always looking for calls and flopping. The reason why he has those numbers of 25-5-7 is because of the new handcheck rules. He is not skilled at all. He just goes hard at times thats it. He isn't good on defense either. So what if he blocks shots. That don't mean anything.

I hate Wade because he made fun of Dirk and questioned the Bulls organization. He also thinks hes always entitled to something. He should take his HGH cheeks to a retirement home. He's declining. 26.37 PER in 2011-12 season means nothing. The highest and 8th highest PER in NBA Finals history means nothing. Him making the ECF half his career means nothing. Him being the only player in NBA history with a 25-5-5-1-1 career line also means nothing.

Laying it on pretty thick here huh?

b@llhog24
06-27-2012, 05:40 PM
:laugh: some people are not familiar with LongHorn's work around here.

Fnom11
06-27-2012, 09:03 PM
Is that the only things you see wrong with that post? If you know anything about the poster I am dealing with you'd know why I made such a horrible post.

Yeah I thought it was pretty funny how so many people could think you seriously thought that. You're usually one of the more level headed members on this site.

naps
06-27-2012, 09:17 PM
:facepalm:

He's overrated...but he doesn't suck.

Stop. He sucks. Stop overrating him. He sucks longhornfan balls. Longhornfan is the GOAT.

Bishnoff
06-27-2012, 09:42 PM
Nowadays, most young C's have either always been bigger and more athletic than their opponents in high school and college (so they’ve been able to dominate without learning proper post moves) or they’ve had a huge growth spurt in high school and have the skillset of a perimeter player. Without proper coaching and time to develop, we’re not going to see many quality C’s like past decades.