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View Full Version : Minnesota has agreed to trade the 18th pick to Houston for Chase Budinger



king4day
06-26-2012, 10:06 AM
Minnesota has agreed to trade the 18th overall pick in Thursday's draft to Houston for Chase Budinger, league sources tell Y! Sports.

https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/9031127880

Other notes from Woj:


Houston has also included the rights to Israeli Lior Eliyahu in the deal to Minnesota, a source said.


The Rockets own the 14th, 16th and 18th picks in Thursday's draft. They want to make an offer that Orlando can't refuse for Dwight Howard.

ichitownclowni
06-26-2012, 10:09 AM
Dwight has to be super pissed

nycericanguy
06-26-2012, 10:10 AM
good deal for MIN, they need a shooter and wing BADLY.

HOU is really going balls out for Howard...

king4day
06-26-2012, 10:13 AM
Great pickup for Minny. They are on their way up, so drafting another player won't help them at this stage. Budinger should help them right away.

Houston is taking a risk. It'll be worth it should they get Howard (and he stays) but if he leaves, they are in serious trouble and have to blow whatever they'd have left up.
I think they'd be better off just keeping their assets and moving forward. Maybe they will deal 3 picks for the 5 and take Drummond for themselves instead.

I'm starting to think if they get Howard, Deron will follow and both will stay there. Talk about coming from out of nowhere.

Blink
06-26-2012, 10:13 AM
Damn its going to be interesting what the deal is going to turn out to be for Dwight.

Houston should trade #14, 16, 18 to Detroit for #9......lol

camile82
06-26-2012, 10:14 AM
How can Howard get upset about coming to Houston? I don't understand. I know it's not a big market but the team is showing interest in winning. If they get Howard, the next target is D-Will. And I wouldn't be surprised if they go after Brandon Roy after that.

ManRam
06-26-2012, 10:15 AM
I'm getting so excited.

Come on Houston! Do it!


It's a very risky gamble, but my guess is they are completely aware with how fickle Dwight is. It's the type of gamble that can establish your organization for years to come, or set it back a few.

Six-8-TheWizard
06-26-2012, 10:16 AM
Good deal for both teams I think

king4day
06-26-2012, 10:16 AM
I'm getting so excited.

Come on Houston! Do it!


It's a very risky gamble, but my guess is they are completely aware with how fickle Dwight is. It's the type of gamble that can establish your organization for years to come, or set it back a few.

What kinda deal would you want from Houston now?

ManRam
06-26-2012, 10:16 AM
Rockets took Budinger with the 44th pick. Solid investment, no?

ManRam
06-26-2012, 10:17 AM
What kinda deal would you want from Houston now?

Anything. haha.

I'd love a bunch of draft picks. I'd love a higher pick and Lowry. I'd love anything honestly. I'm ready to move on.

nycericanguy
06-26-2012, 10:18 AM
#14, 16 & 18, Lowry, & Scola or Martin for Howard.

Thats a great deal for ORL. much better than what NJ can offer.

And it leaves HOU enough cap space to sign Dwil. Dwil loves DAL, HOU is not far away...

Six-8-TheWizard
06-26-2012, 10:18 AM
How can Howard get upset about coming to Houston? I don't understand. I know it's not a big market but the team is showing interest in winning. If they get Howard, the next target is D-Will. And I wouldn't be surprised if they go after Brandon Roy after that.

Isnt Houston like one of the largest cities in the US?

StarvingKnick22
06-26-2012, 10:18 AM
Dwight has to be super pissed this

Carey
06-26-2012, 10:19 AM
I like the deal for both sides, Budinger should fit well in Minny and is well woth the 18th pick. Looks like Morey going all out to get Dwight and it looks like he'll have the most chips to do so.

ManRam
06-26-2012, 10:24 AM
I'd like to see two of those picks turned into a top 10 pick...but even if they aren't...

Let's say they give us all three picks.

14th, 16th and 18th and 19 could net us...

Sully/Moultrie/Henson/PJ3 + Lamb/Teague/Marshall + Harkless/Jones/Ross plus another.

That would be a fun group of young players. It's a deep draft. I don't know if there's a star to be had, but whatever. I'd enjoy rooting for a young team like that.

ManRam
06-26-2012, 10:24 AM
@timkawakami

I heard last night that the Warriors' #7 is in play as Houston tries to line up the Orlando/Dwight offer.

:clap:

RLundi
06-26-2012, 10:24 AM
Isnt Houston like one of the largest cities in the US?

Yeah lol it's like the 5th biggest US market.

Vinylman
06-26-2012, 10:27 AM
Don't forget... Houston also has Dallas's protected #1 that they got from the Lakers in the Fish deal...

4 #1s and Lowry/Martin should get it done easily

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
06-26-2012, 10:27 AM
Wow this is awesome I hope houston does it and hennigan can't refuse!

Wonder if there gonna be able to snagg a top ten somehow if they can give us one top ten pick and the 14 16 and 18th pick.... Id be super excited. That gives orl so many options with those picks to draft some and trade some ... Heck id be happy with lowry those 3 picks and an expiring martin and dalembert for dwight jrich and fillers..... This would give us

Lowry
Martin/reddick
Hedo
Baby davis/ryno
Dalembert/davis

Plus the 14,16,18 and 19 pick in the draft.... Could package some to move up could trade some away for a young talent could package one with reddick to get a good player.... This is a great move I hope rockets can pull it off

29$JerZ
06-26-2012, 10:28 AM
It's a worthwhile gamble for Houston IMO. Unlike NJ Houston just is never bad enough to draft high so they need to brig in a big star any way they can and hope they can entice him to stay. Biggest winner is obviously Orlando, getting 3/4 relatively high lotto 1st rounders is amazing IMO.

RLundi
06-26-2012, 10:28 AM
I'd like to see two of those picks turned into a top 10 pick...but even if they aren't...

Let's say they give us all three picks.

14th, 16th and 18th and 19 could net us...

Sully/Moultrie/Henson/PJ3 + Lamb/Teague/Marshall + Harkless/Jones/Ross plus another.

That would be a fun group of young players. It's a deep draft. I don't know if there's a star to be had, but whatever. I'd enjoy rooting for a young team like that.

IMO I'd rather have 3 middle of the round draft picks than 1 top 10 pick, even top 5 pick. Once you get out of the top 3, I think it's all essentially a wash. It seems drafting is Hennigan's strength, so I'd love to see what he can do with 4 draft prospects. And if we also get Lowry too, that's just icing on the cake. I can envision us trying to model a team after the Thunder.

ManRam
06-26-2012, 10:31 AM
IMO I'd rather have 3 middle of the round draft picks than 1 top 10 pick, even top 5 pick. Once you get out of the top 3, I think it's all essentially a wash. It seems drafting is Hennigan's strength, so I'd love to see what he can do with 4 draft prospects. And if we also get Lowry too, that's just icing on the cake. I can envision us trying to model a team after the Thunder.

I'd rather have a top 7 pick and a middle round pick than three middle ones...but it's not a huge difference. We could have 14, 16, 18 and 19. How fun would that be?

ThunderousDemon
06-26-2012, 10:33 AM
Nah, the Rockets are going to trade those picks to the Lakers for Pau. :D :pray:

ManRam
06-26-2012, 10:33 AM
Rubio/Budinger/SF/Love/Pekovic

#swag

Looks like a rock band.

PhillyBoomerang
06-26-2012, 10:33 AM
trade a 2nd round pick (44th) in 2009 for this years 18th pick great turn out for a guy who i thought was 1st round talent. seems like both teams got what they wanted, Howard going to rockets is not gonna be that simple, even w/ 3 first rounders i don't see howard staying long term in Houston

*Superman*
06-26-2012, 10:33 AM
:clap:

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/dancing/tumblr_lhrzztdSKy1qb7hapo1_500.gif

Can't believe Houston is actually risking throwing away all those assets for Dwight.

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
06-26-2012, 10:33 AM
I'm stoked right now can't wait for thursday

TrAv=MaGiCfReAk
06-26-2012, 10:34 AM
Rubio/Budinger/SF/Love/Pekovic

#swag

Looks like a rock band.

The whitest starting 5 in nba history lol

Ill21
06-26-2012, 10:36 AM
Houston is so dumb. Why give up this much for a one year rental?

RLundi
06-26-2012, 10:37 AM
The whitest starting 5 in nba history lol

Derrick Williams screws it up.

Ill21
06-26-2012, 10:38 AM
I'd rather have a top 7 pick and a middle round pick than three middle ones...but it's not a huge difference. We could have 14, 16, 18 and 19. How fun would that be?

Drummond, Teague, Harkless, Rivers.

The goods
06-26-2012, 10:39 AM
#14, 16 & 18, Lowry, & Scola or Martin for Howard.

Thats a great deal for ORL. much better than what NJ can offer.

And it leaves HOU enough cap space to sign Dwil. Dwil loves DAL, HOU is not far away...

Exactly what I was thinking.

RLundi
06-26-2012, 10:39 AM
I'm excited about the draft now. I like how we're now in a position to completely determine our fate and future for the next 10 years. It's always a bit risky, but with FOUR draft picks, the chance that at least a few of them will be game changers is high.

I'm positively giddy. Can't wait to see what offers are thrown our way.

nycericanguy
06-26-2012, 10:39 AM
Houston is so dumb. Why give up this much for a one year rental?

How many times have we heard a player say they won't sign somewhere, but when they get there they sign.

Look at Billups last year, he even threatened retirement, now he can't stop saying good things about LAC and says he wants to resign there.

If Dwil really wants to play with Howard he can sign in HOU now... I think Howard would stay. He's close with Olajuwon, and he's going to be so happy to be away from ORL. He also can't follow Dwil... so what are his options next year?

JWO35
06-26-2012, 10:39 AM
Rockets took Budinger with the 44th pick. Solid investment, no?

The Pistons traded him to the Rockets for a 2nd rounder
3yrs later they trade him the 18th pick :facepalm:

D1JM
06-26-2012, 10:40 AM
:clap:

He is probably one of the last guys I would believe ManRam. You never know though, he might finally get one right

Bryrob58
06-26-2012, 10:40 AM
.

RLundi
06-26-2012, 10:41 AM
What if with those draft picks, Orlando gets Austin Rivers, who Doc has said he'd like to coach and Doc decides to get out of his contract and transitory situation for the chance to coach Heart and Hustle II?

Clearly, I'm getting ahead of myself. :laugh2:

natelpete
06-26-2012, 10:42 AM
Rubio/Budinger/SF/Love/Pekovic

#swag

Looks like a rock band.

If DWill can learn to play the 3 somewhat consistently, that would be a decent lineup, with Beasley coming off the bench.

srfr4life
06-26-2012, 10:42 AM
How does Howard's reps saying "absolutely no chance" in staying with Houston?

RLundi
06-26-2012, 10:42 AM
Derrick Williams doesn't start and won't start.. So until we add sOme more players we won't know whether or not it's gonna be another white guy.

Yeah, I was trying to think who the SF was but I couldn't remember so I just plugged in Williams ;)

MagicBucsSox
06-26-2012, 10:46 AM
Im calling out of work thurs night, no way I miss this draft win lose draw

twin4life
06-26-2012, 10:46 AM
Yeah, I was trying to think who the SF was but I couldn't remember so I just plugged in Williams ;)

Rubio PG
Ridnour SG
Budinger SF
Love PF
Pek C

srfr4life
06-26-2012, 10:48 AM
Didn't Howard's reps, or even himself saying "absolutely no chance" that he would stay long term with Houston play a factor?

natelpete
06-26-2012, 10:50 AM
Rubio PG
Ridnour SG
Budinger SF
Love PF
Pek C

My god, we are white.AF.

nycericanguy
06-26-2012, 10:52 AM
Rubio PG
Ridnour SG
Budinger SF
Love PF
Pek C

thats racist...

The goods
06-26-2012, 10:52 AM
The thought of them getting Dwight and deron is scary I don't want them in the west unless their in laker uniforms. Lol

Carey
06-26-2012, 10:53 AM
What if with those draft picks, Orlando gets Austin Rivers, who Doc has said he'd like to coach and Doc decides to get out of his contract and transitory situation for the chance to coach Heart and Hustle II?

Clearly, I'm getting ahead of myself. :laugh2:

Nothing at all wrong with that sir, thats what the offseason is for lol

The goods
06-26-2012, 10:54 AM
My god, we are white.AF.

I thought Rubio was a Spaniard?

ThunderousDemon
06-26-2012, 10:55 AM
thats racist...

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/square/000/002/135/sw50sw8sw578.gif

ThunderousDemon
06-26-2012, 10:56 AM
I thought Rubio was a Spaniard?

His skin tone is light.

shep33
06-26-2012, 10:56 AM
Houston should just keep those picks. Why on earth would you take the gamble of getting a Howard rental with so many other options available?

Morey needs to look at the situation in Brooklyn under Billy King. If Deron leaves, the Nets would've given up this year's 6th, Favors and Kanter for a rental.

BSardogan
06-26-2012, 10:56 AM
Didn't Howard's reps, or even himself saying "absolutely no chance" that he would stay long term with Houston play a factor?

Yeah. He also said he wanted to be a Laker, then he wanted to join forces with Deron Williams and go to Dallas and New York, then he opted in to avoid being traded, then he couldn't leave the Magic because he was too loyal, got SVG fired and then he couldn't resign because too much damage was done.

Who cares what Dwight says.

theheatles
06-26-2012, 10:56 AM
The rockets shouldn't mess around too much, they should offer Lowry, Dalembert picks 14, 16 and 18 for Dwight, Hedo and Jameer

*Superman*
06-26-2012, 10:58 AM
thats racist...

What's funny is that a few years ago I had a friend that was playing 2k online, the mode where you pick one player on the team and use them, and the people he was with took Granger out the lineup and had all white players, took him awhile to realize that he was playing with racist rednecks :laugh2:

ThunderousDemon
06-26-2012, 10:59 AM
Yeah. He also said he wanted to be a Laker, then he wanted to join forces with Deron Williams and go to Dallas and New York, then he opted in to avoid being traded, then he couldn't leave the Magic because he was too loyal, got SVG fired and then he couldn't resign because too much damage was done.

Who cares what Dwight says.

Your sig is so awesome it deserves.................


























THE LT BABYYYYYY :dance:

MagicBucsSox
06-26-2012, 11:03 AM
Orlando cannot turn this down, atl up next


@ESPNSteinLine: Trade story add: Dwight obviously Rockets' dream target but sources say they'll pursue Atlanta's Josh Smith (and others) if ORL won't budge.

Havoc Wreaker
06-26-2012, 11:05 AM
What the hell is Khan doing? Budinger is not a PG!!!

Havoc Wreaker
06-26-2012, 11:07 AM
My god, we are white.AF.
When I read about the trade the first thing that popped into my mind was

Minny is gonna have the first all white player starting 5 in the history of the NBA :laugh2:

shep33
06-26-2012, 11:07 AM
Orlando cannot turn this down, atl up next

.

Interesting. I read that Atlanta is looking to blow it up finally. Problem is that Smith expires after next year. So essentially it'd be a rental too.

Lindystud36
06-26-2012, 11:08 AM
Its like Christmas with the potential for all of these trades to happen

Three first round picks all in the teens; trade all three to the Lakers for Pau

Chronz
06-26-2012, 11:09 AM
WOW. Morey has balls. I guess when your consistently money with your draft picks you can take gambles like this. Really shows how poor of an evaluator whatshisface from Minny is. He has to give up 1st rounders for talent Morey can find with late picks.

rhino17
06-26-2012, 11:09 AM
C: Dwight Howard
PF: Luis Scola
SF: free agent
SG: Courtney Lee
PG: Deron Williams

I like it

Hawkeye15
06-26-2012, 11:09 AM
as a Wolves fan, I am more than fine with this. Budinger is more than likely better than you get at the 18th pick (statistically speaking, you get at best a role player there, with a SLIM chance of a starter), the Wolves don't need more players in need of development, Budinger knows Adelmans corner offense and can shoot, and the Wolves were in dire need of even getting an average wing, we had the worst wing play in the NBA last year at the 2-3 positions.

Htownballa1622
06-26-2012, 11:11 AM
Morey is a genius at turning second round picks in to firsts.

If only we could land a star.

Raps08-09 Champ
06-26-2012, 11:11 AM
Rockets took Budinger with the 44th pick. Solid investment, no?

Not necessarily.

If you redo that draft, Budinger would be around the 15-25 spot.

Hawkeye15
06-26-2012, 11:12 AM
WOW. Morey has balls. I guess when your consistently money with your draft picks you can take gambles like this. Really shows how poor of an evaluator whatshisface from Minny is. He has to give up 1st rounders for talent Morey can find with late picks.

nice shot at Kahn, please tell me that a normal pick at #18 is any better than Budinger. Kudos to Morey for finding Budinger (prior year considered top 20 btw), and Parsons for example. You should be making fun of 28 other teams if you want to crap on Kahn and praise Morey due to draft evaluation talent. Morey is better than almost anyone.

So introducing another 20 year old to a developing team is the answer? I don't think so. I was for trading this pick from day 1. Budinger fits Adelman's offense, and we know Houston's pick last year, even higher than 18, shows exactly why draft picks are a risk.

DR_1
06-26-2012, 11:13 AM
Good move Houston, I really don't like Budinger. But a change of scenery should do him good.

Chronz
06-26-2012, 11:13 AM
Houston is so dumb. Why give up this much for a one year rental?

Because they are smart

*Silver&Black*
06-26-2012, 11:18 AM
Trade story add: Dwight obviously Rockets' dream target but sources say they'll pursue Atlanta's Josh Smith (and others) if ORL won't budge

- Marc Stein

H-town Mastodon
06-26-2012, 11:20 AM
Trade story add: Dwight obviously Rockets' dream target but sources say they'll pursue Atlanta's Josh Smith (and others) if ORL won't budge

- Marc Stein

I seriously hope though that we don't offer the same package for smith then for howard if we have to go that far

TEXASTITAN
06-26-2012, 11:20 AM
Its like Christmas with the potential for all of these trades to happen

Three first round picks all in the teens; trade all three to the Lakers for Pau



Keep dreaming buddy... And keep Gasol AND that nearly immovable contract it benefits the Rockets to keep LA hamstrung with the money they owe him more than it does Houston trading for him.

Carey
06-26-2012, 11:21 AM
Hawkeye, good point on that corner 3. Read somewhere that the T'Wolves shot 36 percent from 3 from the corners last year while Bundinger shot 48 percent from corner last year.

nacdaddy
06-26-2012, 11:22 AM
Interesting. I read that Atlanta is looking to blow it up finally. Problem is that Smith expires after next year. So essentially it'd be a rental too.

smith wouldnt be a one year rental. he actually wanted a trade last year and had houston on his small list. whats interesting is that moreys targeting smith and the fact that we have courtney lee. both of them are really good friends with guess who? dwight howard!

djohn2oo8
06-26-2012, 11:22 AM
Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress

Sources say Houston has an offer of Lowry, the #14 and #16 picks for Tyreke Evans and the #5 pick on the table. Up to Sacramento to decide.

EDUTEXANS
06-26-2012, 11:23 AM
C: Dwight Howard
PF: Luis Scola
SF: free agent
SG: Courtney Lee
PG: Deron Williams

I like it

I think we're not gonna trade Parsons

Htownballa1622
06-26-2012, 11:23 AM
- Marc Stein

Ughhh. Josh Smith?

I don't want him unless we have a legitimate first option.

I cringe every time he takes a jumper.

MagicBucsSox
06-26-2012, 11:25 AM
Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress

Sources say Houston has an offer of Lowry, the #14 and #16 picks for Tyreke Evans and the #5 pick on the table. Up to Sacramento to decide.

Is this why the 5th pick is available?

@SpearsNBAYahoo: Kidd-Gilchrist, Beal, Barnes & Robinson declined to work out for Kings (5th pick). I guess guys dont want to go there," an NBA exec said..

Chronz
06-26-2012, 11:26 AM
nice shot at Kahn, please tell me that a normal pick at #18 is any better than Budinger.
Depends on whos drafting, which was the point of my post. An 18th pick being decided by Morey has more value than the same pick being decided by Kahn.


Kudos to Morey for finding Budinger (prior year considered top 20 btw), and Parsons for example. You should be making fun of 28 other teams if you want to crap on Kahn and praise Morey due to draft evaluation talent. Morey is better than almost anyone.
The other teams didnt have to trade a mid pick for a 2nd rounder so it wouldnt be relevant to this thread.


So introducing another 20 year old to a developing team is the answer?
Definitely not if Kahn is in charge of the pick. He could definitely do what Morey does, by finding quality rotational players with low ceilings like Budinger. Budinger was 21 when he came in and hasnt changed in 3 years, nothing wrong with that if your trying to find daimonds in the rough, something Kahn apparently has no confidence in doing. He is entering his prime so congrats on that but you also have to pay up alot sooner.


I was for trading this pick from day 1. Budinger fits Adelman's offense, and we know Houston's pick last year, even higher than 18, shows exactly why draft picks are a risk.

Of course they are risks, whoever said they arent? Totally irrelevant to the point Im making. Im glad your happy with Budinger, you guys could definitely use a wing, god knows Kahn has ****ed up so many times trying to find one, but it doesnt change the point Im making. That he has to give up a mid first rounder for a 2nd round player in a contract year. Its a move with no risk, but also very little upside and it also shows how much faith he has in his own drafting abilities.

shep33
06-26-2012, 11:27 AM
smith wouldnt be a one year rental. he actually wanted a trade last year and had houston on his small list. whats interesting is that moreys targeting smith and the fact that we have courtney lee. both of them are really good friends with guess who? dwight howard!

I still think it'd be risky getting Smith no? I mean, he's going to be a viable big name FA after next year. You have to wonder if he'll at least test the waters.

That'd be cool if Howard ends up there, I just worry about all that they could possibly give up for a rental if they decide to make a deal now.

shep33
06-26-2012, 11:29 AM
Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress

Sources say Houston has an offer of Lowry, the #14 and #16 picks for Tyreke Evans and the #5 pick on the table. Up to Sacramento to decide.

I like that deal for both teams.

Chronz
06-26-2012, 11:32 AM
If Morey turns Lowry + picks into Tyreke then hes taking a big gamble. Reke may be nothing more than a 6thman if he doesnt turn his career around.

nycericanguy
06-26-2012, 11:33 AM
Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress

Sources say Houston has an offer of Lowry, the #14 and #16 picks for Tyreke Evans and the #5 pick on the table. Up to Sacramento to decide.

Does HOU want Tyreke or are they looking to flip Evans, the #5, & 18 for Howard?

nacdaddy
06-26-2012, 11:34 AM
I still think it'd be risky getting Smith no? I mean, he's going to be a viable big name FA after next year. You have to wonder if he'll at least test the waters.

That'd be cool if Howard ends up there, I just worry about all that they could possibly give up for a rental if they decide to make a deal now.

every deal is a risk, especially these days of divas and money hungry players but im pretty confident in smith staying. i mean he had houston on his short list and houston has the money to retain if wanted. were gonna have a lost of cap space but morey doesnt like overpaying players

TEXASTITAN
06-26-2012, 11:35 AM
IF and it's a biggie but.... If you offer Lowry to LA for Gasol whose value has never been lower AND you trade all the first rounders/Martin/scola for Dwight AND also sign Dwill you can't tell anyone that Dwight would leave that.

rhino17
06-26-2012, 11:36 AM
Marc Stein reporting that the rockets are close to acquiring the #7 pick from golden state

shep33
06-26-2012, 11:38 AM
Marc Stein reporting that the rockets are close to acquiring the #7 pick from golden state

Haha what the hell? The Rockets are getting every pick in the draft lol.

What's going to Gstate? Two first rounders?

EDUTEXANS
06-26-2012, 11:39 AM
IF and it's a biggie but.... If you offer Lowry to LA for Gasol whose value has never been lower AND you trade all the first rounders/Martin/scola for Dwight AND also sign Dwill you can't tell anyone that Dwight would leave that.

we would have two max contracts, I don't if we could offer Williams another one

TEXASTITAN
06-26-2012, 11:41 AM
The question is with all this activity and (rumored) activity which lotto team is going to feel pressured to flinch and make a move first to trade with Houston for fear of losing multiple first rounders all together? Sac/GS/Tor?

H-town Mastodon
06-26-2012, 11:41 AM
Marc Stein reporting that the rockets are close to acquiring the #7 pick from golden state

Any idea who we would give up yet

ManRam
06-26-2012, 11:42 AM
He is probably one of the last guys I would believe ManRam. You never know though, he might finally get one right

He;s been right on a lot of things lately...or at least his rumors later were confirmed by others. He's as "in" with that team as probably any other GSW reporter.

TEXASTITAN
06-26-2012, 11:44 AM
we would have two max contracts, I don't if we could offer Williams another one



I don't think Gasol with 3 years left on his deal qualifies as a 3rd max contract but this is something to think about.

djohn2oo8
06-26-2012, 11:45 AM
Marc Stein reporting that the rockets are close to acquiring the #7 pick from golden state

link?

ManRam
06-26-2012, 11:47 AM
Not sure the credibility...


@MySportsLegion
Report: If Kings accept the deal, Rockets then plan to offer Orlando Tyreke Evans, Kevin Martin and picks #5 & 18 to the Magic for Dwight

djohn2oo8
06-26-2012, 11:49 AM
^ Not credible at all

Chronz
06-26-2012, 11:49 AM
Not sure the credibility...

lol. The same 2 players that supposedly couldnt co-exist in Sacramento?

shep33
06-26-2012, 11:50 AM
Not sure the credibility...

Wow, you definitely do that if your Orlando.

Hawkeye15
06-26-2012, 11:50 AM
Depends on whos drafting, which was the point of my post. An 18th pick being decided by Morey has more value than the same pick being decided by Kahn.

My wall is going down...Kahn can not draft. His only 2 picks worth a crap were easy picks, no brainers. Morey is a better drafter than 28 other GM's, and that may be short changing it.



The other teams didnt have to trade a mid pick for a 2nd rounder so it wouldnt be relevant to this thread.

And that is irrelevant to this thread. So if Kahn traded the #18 pick for Marcus Morris, last year's #14, selected by Morey, that is a good trade? See how that works? You are as good as you play, not where you are drafted, you understand that however.



Definitely not if Kahn is in charge of the pick. He could definitely do what Morey does, by finding quality rotational players with low ceilings like Budinger. Budinger was 21 when he came in and hasnt changed in 3 years, nothing wrong with that if your trying to find daimonds in the rough, something Kahn apparently has no confidence in doing. He is entering his prime so congrats on that but you also have to pay up alot sooner.

Kahn's strengths lie in cap management, and financial flexibility creating ability. Basically, he is an asset specialist. I have grown very unconfident in his basketball knowledge at this point, which is why I am hoping Adelman's team is more so in charge of roster moves this offseason. So many times last year, I am watching the Wolves, and just telling myself 50 times last year, "If the Wolves had a butt-reaming average wing that could hit a ****ing stationary three pointer, we would be so much more competitive". Problem solved to some degree.



Of course they are risks, whoever said they arent? Totally irrelevant to the point Im making. Im glad your happy with Budinger, you guys could definitely use a wing, god knows Kahn has ****ed up so many times trying to find one, but it doesnt change the point Im making. That he has to give up a mid first rounder for a 2nd round player in a contract year. Its a move with no risk, but also very little upside and it also shows how much faith he has in his own drafting abilities.

It's a combination of not having a lot of faith in his drafting ability, and the fact that Adelman wanted vets, proven guys, and we all know he likes to go after his own. This is Kahn's last year under contract. If the Wolves don't make the playoffs, or possibly win 45 games and just miss, he is gone. So why even bother with another 19-20 year old on a team full of mostly kids? Get the proven wing, even if he has been pretty much average, sign a SG, and get to work.

Chronz
06-26-2012, 11:52 AM
Wow, you definitely do that if your Orlando.

Why wouldnt you just take Bynum, or Lopez?

ManRam
06-26-2012, 11:52 AM
I don't think it's credible either...but I've seen lesser people hit on things before...and I'm feeling gossipy today.

I'm excited :jumpy:

TEXASTITAN
06-26-2012, 11:53 AM
Not sure the credibility...

Seems like the offers being thrown Orlandos way are getting better but one could argue someone's being greedy considering Howard is probably a sure thing gone from the Magic even if they don't trade him. Orlando might get left with nothing if they aren't careful Morey will just move onto Atl to pick up Jsmith for less.

ManRam
06-26-2012, 11:53 AM
Much more credible:


@daldridgetnt

Told there is no way that Kings would do purported offer of Lowry/14/16 for Evans and five if it was even actually offered.

H-town Mastodon
06-26-2012, 11:57 AM
Much more credible:


@daldridgetnt

Told there is no way that Kings would do purported offer of Lowry/14/16 for Evans and five if it was even actually offered.

Well it does seem like a pretty sweet deal though even.if it was to be used to get Howard

shep33
06-26-2012, 12:00 PM
Why wouldnt you just take Bynum, or Lopez?

I honestly don't know if Jimmy wants to trade Bynum. Also, Bynum has already said he wants to stay with the Lakers long term. I mean, it's better than what Howard has been saying about the Lakers, or at least reports about how he won't re-sign.

Brooklyn doesn't really have much to offer, and they don't have picks.

ALH_JKL
06-26-2012, 12:10 PM
bad idea for minne.. they need shooters yes, but a streky shooter like budinger? theres so much talent in the draft and soooo much talent available with the 18th pick, i think they definitely could've gotten a better deal out of it

AntiG
06-26-2012, 12:10 PM
I thought Rubio was a Spaniard?

Spanish people are Caucasian.

MagicBucsSox
06-26-2012, 12:16 PM
Much more credible:

They're dying to draft guys who don't wanna go to them, or hoping Drummond falls


@daldridgetnt: Told there is no way that Kings would do purported offer of Lowry/14/16 for Evans and five if it was even actually offered.


Quote:
@SpearsNBAYahoo: Kidd-Gilchrist, Beal, Barnes & Robinson declined to work out for Kings (5th pick). “I guess guys don’t want to go there," an NBA exec said..

DR_1
06-26-2012, 12:18 PM
:laugh2:

Chronz
06-26-2012, 12:21 PM
And that is irrelevant to this thread. So if Kahn traded the #18 pick for Marcus Morris, last year's #14, selected by Morey, that is a good trade? See how that works? You are as good as you play, not where you are drafted, you understand that however.
lol you totally missed the point. I never said it was a bad trade FOR HIM, I said it speaks volumes to his inability to draft and speaks to Moreys ability to find replacements with late picks. Hell hes already replaced Budinger with Parsons (another 2nd rounder) and hes essentially upgraded to another mid pick without having to worry about extending Budinger. Its a classic money ball move.



Kahn's strengths lie in cap management, and financial flexibility creating ability. Basically, he is an asset specialist. I have grown very unconfident in his basketball knowledge at this point, which is why I am hoping Adelman's team is more so in charge of roster moves this offseason. So many times last year, I am watching the Wolves, and just telling myself 50 times last year, "If the Wolves had a butt-reaming average wing that could hit a ****ing stationary three pointer, we would be so much more competitive". Problem solved to some degree.
I dont think Kahn has a strength, hes an accountant but one that because of his limited IQ will have to overpay to retain talent that Morey can replace on the cheap, that cant be good for the CAP.
Like look at Budinger, on the money ball scale hes a helluva player for less than 1M, but hes due for an extension next year. I dont know how much he will command but its certainly going to cost far more than what Morey will pay Parsons for the next 4 years. Thats assuming he resigns Budinger, which I hope he does otherwise hes giving up picks for role player rentals which is never good. So hes going to pay what 4-5M (possibly more or less, I dunno) annually for talent that Morey wont even pay TOTAL in 4 years to the guy who was ahead of him in the depth chart... Now THATS CAP management. To be a great manager of the CAP you have to have a solid cost to production ratio, I have yet to see that from Kahn.




It's a combination of not having a lot of faith in his drafting ability, and the fact that Adelman wanted vets, proven guys, and we all know he likes to go after his own. This is Kahn's last year under contract. If the Wolves don't make the playoffs, or possibly win 45 games and just miss, he is gone. So why even bother with another 19-20 year old on a team full of mostly kids? Get the proven wing, even if he has been pretty much average, sign a SG, and get to work.
Like I said, Im glad you finally found someone who can shoot, but Im sure Adelman said the same thing Budingers rookie year before he caught on to how good he was. I know Adelman wants control but he will take any upgrade you can get. If this is the best you can get then power to you, but dont expect me to be impressed.
I get your argument, I think you feel like Im saying this was a horrible move, Im not saying that at all. What Im saying is that I find it sad that this is what passes as a good move for Kahn, hell its one of his best decisions. Still doesnt change anything Ive said, I think he got fleeced but that doesnt mean he cant benefit from it.

Like when the Pacers traded for George Hill to give the Spurs a draft pick they loved (Leonard). It was a decent move for Indiana that really lifted the team when Collison was hurt or struggling, but compared to what it did for San Antonio, no contest who benefits more from that trade. If Morey lands another rotational player or turns this into something worthwhile then similar situation here. You just relinquished your shot at finding a rotational player on the cheap for 1 year of underpaid play.

Essentially the same mindset Morey takes when stockpiling these guys in the draft, Kahn takes in the trade market. The difference is, these no risk moves are going to be more expensive going that route but probably the best thing given his history. Morey has earned himself a few more risk moves with what hes done in the past so I can accept this deal as well.

Punk
06-26-2012, 12:23 PM
Isnt Houston like one of the largest cities in the US?

Houston is sort of like a West version of Miami. A big market when stars are there, looks like a small market when no stars are there.

ManRam
06-26-2012, 12:25 PM
Houston is sort of like a West version of Miami. A big market when stars are there, looks like a small market when no stars are there.

I don't think people can reasonable look at Houston like it's a small market. It's the 4th most populous city in the USA.

Miami is the 44th most populous.

djohn2oo8
06-26-2012, 12:28 PM
Kyle Montgomery: Rockets making some moves. Budinger to T'wolves for 18th pick. I'm hearing there could be more soon to follow. Kyle Lowry?? 4 minutes ago

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz1yuw2zEJb

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-26-2012, 12:32 PM
Houston is sort of like a West version of Miami. A big market when stars are there, looks like a small market when no stars are there.

This is so wrong it isn't even funny.

THE_FLASH_21
06-26-2012, 12:33 PM
How can Howard get upset about coming to Houston? I don't understand. I know it's not a big market but the team is showing interest in winning. If they get Howard, the next target is D-Will. And I wouldn't be surprised if they go after Brandon Roy after that.

yea i know.. The Rockets have a nice thing going.. But so do the Magic.. This turd doesn't know what he wants.. Rockets would be scary.. with him and Deron

Cano-Montero...
06-26-2012, 12:33 PM
wow... Morey is a genius...

He might end up with Dwight and Deron...

if they can find a taker for lowry in exchange for another 1st rounder they would be big time players...

Send all those 1st rounder for Dwight
Dont exercie option on Dalembert and Patterson
SIgn Deron

Deron
Martin
Parsons
Scola
Dwight

a bench of morris and vets...wow!

Baller1
06-26-2012, 12:35 PM
I'd love to be a Houston and/or Orlando fan right now. Gossip and rumors are so much fun, haha.

Baller1
06-26-2012, 12:36 PM
And I'd be salivating at the thought of possibly 4-5 first round draft picks if I'm an Orlando fan.

ManRam
06-26-2012, 12:43 PM
I'd love to be a Houston and/or Orlando fan right now. Gossip and rumors are so much fun, haha.

This whole Dwight thing sucks, but I'm actually enjoy this. I just hope something gets done. I don't want this to drag on past the deadline.

Hawkeye15
06-26-2012, 12:47 PM
lol you totally missed the point. I never said it was a bad trade FOR HIM, I said it speaks volumes to his inability to draft and speaks to Moreys ability to find replacements with late picks. Hell hes already replaced Budinger with Parsons (another 2nd rounder) and hes essentially upgraded to another midlotto pick without having to worry about extending Budinger. Its a classic money ball move.

No, I get your point, I just find it interesting that you choose Kahn as your example, when the same could be said of the majority/most GM's Morey deals with. He is a better drafter than most. I am honestly not concerned what it does for the Rockets, I am happy we turned the 18th pick, usually a whatever pick, into a proven role player who can shoot and run much better than what we have.



I dont think Kahn has a strength, hes an accountant but one that because of his limited IQ will have to overpay to retain talent that Morey can replace on the cheap, that cant be good for the CAP.

He understands cap management and how to create financial flexibility as well as any GM in the NBA, that is his strength, for the second time. Never said Morey wasn't good at it, I said it's Kahn's strength.



Like look at Budinger, on the money ball scale hes a helluva player for less than 1M, but hes due for an extension next year. I dont know how much he will command but its certainly going to cost far more than what Morey will pay Parsons for the next 4 years.

So what? I get it, you are patting Morey on the back here, without looking at the other side of the trade. We all know Morey is an excellent GM. Sometimes deals work out on both sides Chronz.


Thats assuming he resigns Budinger, which I hope he does otherwise hes giving up picks for role player rentals which is never good. So hes going to pay what 4-5M (possibly more or less, I dunno) annually for talent that Morey wont even pay TOTAL in 4 years to the guy who was ahead of him in the depth chart... Now THATS CAP management. To be a great manager of the CAP you have to have a solid cost to production ratio, I have yet to see that from Kahn.

The new CBA will level salaries for players like Chase, but he is just a name obviously.

It all starts with drafting. If you aren't great at that, you better understand how to flip assets and win trades, something Kahn has shown a nice ability to do.

Again, I am looking at this trade from the Wolves side, period. I really don't care what the Rockets are getting out of it, or what they have behind Budinger. I already know what they have. This was a move to make greater moves. I only care about Minnesota getting a capable corner shooting wing for cheap, which they got. Chase hasn't shown $4-5 million a year player wise, not in the new CBA. It's all about the now for the Wolves. The youth movement is getting old, and they need proven players.



Like I said, Im glad you finally found someone who can shoot, but Im sure Adelman said the same thing Budingers rookie year before he caught on to how good he was. I know Adelman wants control but he will take any upgrade you can get. If this is the best you can get then power to you, but dont expect me to be impressed.

I am not impressed, why should you be? Chase is average. But that is better than we had out there on the wings. Much better. Couple that with the $9-11 million we have to go after a Mayo/Crawford/equivalent SG, and it's a nice offseason.



I get your argument, I think you feel like Im saying this was a horrible move, Im not saying that at all. What Im saying is that I find it sad that this is what passes as a good move for Kahn, hell its one of his best decisions. Still doesnt change anything Ive said, I think he got fleeced but that doesnt mean he cant benefit from it.

Nah, I just think you take any and all chances to dump on Kahn. Not that I mind, I dump on his drafting ability all the time, which is why the nanosecond Utah made the playoffs I was on record stating to trade the damn pick for a player with a pulse. Morey>>Kahn, we agree, no? He is still the GM of my favorite team, so I will pull for positive moves.




Like when the Pacers traded for George Hill to give the Spurs a draft pick they loved (Leonard).

Buford>>Kahn. See a pattern haha? I DO NOT WANT KAHN DRAFTING.


It was a decent move for Indiana that really lifted the team when Collison was hurt or struggling, but compared to what it did for San Antonio, no contest who benefits more from that trade. If Morey lands another rotational player or turns this into something worthwhile then similar situation here. You just relinquished your shot at finding a rotational player on the cheap for 1 year of underpaid play.

Essentially the same mindset Morey takes when stockpiling these guys in the draft, Kahn takes in the trade market. The difference is, these no risk moves are going to be more expensive going that route but probably the best thing given his history. Morey has earned himself a few more risk moves with what hes done in the past so I can accept this deal as well.

You know what's sad? If Morey fails to get Dwight and all this blows up, one of the top 3-4 GM's in basketball may be looking for a new job next summer. Houston has been stuck in mediocre world (not at the fault of Morey, can't predict injuries to stars) for so long, I fear he may feel the consequences of not giving Houston a playoff team that could get out of round 1 forever.

Baller1
06-26-2012, 12:49 PM
This whole Dwight thing sucks, but I'm actually enjoy this. I just hope something gets done. I don't want this to drag on past the deadline.

Yeah, I could see it dragging on which would even annoy me. I'm sick of Dwight and his diva BS.

For now though, this is all fun.

Stinkyoutsider
06-26-2012, 12:50 PM
Good move for both teams. The Wolves should be making a push towards the playoffs now that the rebuilding process is so far along. Got a veteran player who will contribute right away. Now, I think they need a backup big they can count on and make sure Rubio is ready to go next year.

I think there's no real way to read Howard now that he flip flops on whether to stay or go all the time. The only thing we all know for sure is that Howard wants another star to team up with (an equal player). If he can't get that 2nd star to team up with, might as well stay with the Magic.

Rivera
06-26-2012, 12:51 PM
tbh im starting to think morey is an overrated gm...hes made good moves but hes been in the playoffs how many times? 2? 3?

Chronz
06-26-2012, 01:14 PM
No, I get your point, I just find it interesting that you choose Kahn as your example, when the same could be said of the majority/most GM's Morey deals with. He is a better drafter than most. I am honestly not concerned what it does for the Rockets, I am happy we turned the 18th pick, usually a whatever pick, into a proven role player who can shoot and run much better than what we have.
Nothing interesting about it, why would I bring up other GM's when they werent involved with the thread?



He understands cap management and how to create financial flexibility as well as any GM in the NBA, that is his strength, for the second time. Never said Morey wasn't good at it, I said it's Kahn's strength.

I disagree. I know your not speaking about Morey, Im speaking solely about Kahn and how I would measure a GM's ability to retain financial flexibility.



So what? I get it, you are patting Morey on the back here, without looking at the other side of the trade. We all know Morey is an excellent GM. Sometimes deals work out on both sides Chronz.

So it means hes going to be spending more money on a cost to production ratio.



The new CBA will level salaries for players like Chase, but he is just a name obviously.

It all starts with drafting. If you aren't great at that, you better understand how to flip assets and win trades, something Kahn has shown a nice ability to do.

Again, I am looking at this trade from the Wolves side, period. I really don't care what the Rockets are getting out of it, or what they have behind Budinger. I already know what they have. This was a move to make greater moves. I only care about Minnesota getting a capable corner shooting wing for cheap, which they got. Chase hasn't shown $4-5 million a year player wise, not in the new CBA. It's all about the now for the Wolves. The youth movement is getting old, and they need proven players.
Thats the difference, Im not looking at this as a fan of 1 team, Im viewing it on both sides. And again, I disagree with your assessment of Kahn. He hasnt shown a nice ability of doing anything IMO.


I am not impressed, why should you be? Chase is average. But that is better than we had out there on the wings. Much better. Couple that with the $9-11 million we have to go after a Mayo/Crawford/equivalent SG, and it's a nice offseason.
Exactly, Im commenting on that average move being one of his best decisions. Thats what I find sad. Dont know why you quoted me in the first place if your not taking offense to my facts.


Nah, I just think you take any and all chances to dump on Kahn. Not that I mind, I dump on his drafting ability all the time, which is why the nanosecond Utah made the playoffs I was on record stating to trade the damn pick for a player with a pulse. Morey>>Kahn, we agree, no? He is still the GM of my favorite team, so I will pull for positive moves.

I take any chance to dump on ANY GM, Kahn just provides the most ammo.



Buford>>Kahn. See a pattern haha? I DO NOT WANT KAHN DRAFTING.
Which is why its hard to be color Kahn as a solid CAP manager if hes incapable of landing players who can net him a solid production:cost ratio.



You know what's sad? If Morey fails to get Dwight and all this blows up, one of the top 3-4 GM's in basketball may be looking for a new job next summer. Houston has been stuck in mediocre world (not at the fault of Morey, can't predict injuries to stars) for so long, I fear he may feel the consequences of not giving Houston a playoff team that could get out of round 1 forever.
Why would Morey lose the job for doing what his owner asks of him? If it were up to Morey he would have rebuilt a long time ago, the last place he wants to be is in the middle, thats why he doesnt give a **** if Dwight leaves. Hes willing to start over, he just needs the word from above. And him losing the job wouldnt be sad at all, it would be sad for Houston because it would lead to a downgrade but in this business its not that crippling.

Hawkeye15
06-26-2012, 01:19 PM
Nothing interesting about it, why would I bring up other GM's when they werent involved with the thread?



I disagree. I know your not speaking about Morey, Im speaking solely about Kahn and how I would measure a GM's ability to retain financial flexibility.



So it means hes going to be spending more money on a cost to production ratio.



Thats the difference, Im not looking at this as a fan of 1 team, Im viewing it on both sides. And again, I disagree with your assessment of Kahn. He hasnt shown a nice ability of doing anything IMO.


Exactly, Im commenting on that average move being one of his best decisions. Thats what I find sad. Dont know why you quoted me in the first place if your not taking offense to my facts.


I take any chance to dump on ANY GM, Kahn just provides the most ammo.



Which is why its hard to be color Kahn as a solid CAP manager if hes incapable of landing players who can net him a solid production:cost ratio.



Why would Morey lose the job for doing what his owner asks of him? If it were up to Morey he would have rebuilt a long time ago, the last place he wants to be is in the middle, thats why he doesnt give a **** if Dwight leaves. Hes willing to start over, he just needs the word from above. And him losing the job wouldnt be sad at all, it would be sad for Houston because it would lead to a downgrade but in this business its not that crippling.

haha, we will never agree on Kahn. You hate him, I stick up for him out of default. We can move on regarding that subject. I have zip faith in his drafting ability, we need a sold shooter and he knows Adelmans offense, win for me, under the circumstances (which is what we all deal with).

The last paragraph I want to touch on. That is literally the same thing I tell everyone here who is freaking out about the 1 year rental. Having the #14 pick three years in a row is the kiss of death in sports. You go all in for Dwight, maybe Deron, and if Dwight leaves, who cares. You now suck, and get real picks to rebuild.

Chronz
06-26-2012, 01:20 PM
tbh im starting to think morey is an overrated gm...hes made good moves but hes been in the playoffs how many times? 2? 3?
Thats a dumb way of measuring GM skills. Think of it this way, what kind of insight does it take to sign Wade-Bron-Bosh? You dont need to be a genius to realize thats a good decision. Compare that to being one of the best at finding diamonds in the rough late in the draft, trade market, free agency, etc... The decision to bring in the Big3 will net you a championship but it takes more insight to find quality players with limited resources.

If Morey had a star player to build around, he would surround him with quality talent.

Look at what he did in Houston. Before he arrived it was Tmac and Yao and thats it, he turned a cast that couldnt win **** without Tmac into a team that could sustain a +.500 winning % without him. Sadly the stars he built the team around ceased to exist. So now hes left trying to make a move for a star while remaining competitive (per the Owners request). If it were up to him he would have tanked a long time ago.

Rivera
06-26-2012, 01:23 PM
Thats a dumb way of measuring GM skills. Think of it this way, what kind of insight does it take to sign Wade-Bron-Bosh? You dont need to be a genius to realize thats a good decision. Compare that to being one of the best at finding diamonds in the rough late in the draft, trade market, free agency, etc... The decision to bring in the Big3 will net you a championship but it takes more insight to find quality players with limited resources.

If Morey had a star player to build around, he would surround him with quality talent.

Look at what he did in Houston. Before he arrived it was Tmac and Yao and thats it, he turned a cast that couldnt win **** without Tmac into a team that could sustain a +.500 winning % without him. Sadly the stars he built the team around ceased to exist. So now hes left trying to make a move for a star while remaining competitive (per the Owners request). If it were up to him he would have tanked a long time ago.

this is a results oriented business and i dont know his exact record but if i were to guess the rockets are an under .500 team in his tenure

the result doesnt match whatever hes doing and people only care about results...i give him 2 seasons especially if he doesnt make the playoffs both years before he gets an ax...unless he pulls something off to make them a contender

no one cares about "great drafting" when you aint in the playoffs because this is a result oriented business and morey isnt getting the results

Htownballa1622
06-26-2012, 01:28 PM
Thats a dumb way of measuring GM skills. Think of it this way, what kind of insight does it take to sign Wade-Bron-Bosh? You dont need to be a genius to realize thats a good decision. Compare that to being one of the best at finding diamonds in the rough late in the draft, trade market, free agency, etc... The decision to bring in the Big3 will net you a championship but it takes more insight to find quality players with limited resources.

If Morey had a star player to build around, he would surround him with quality talent.

Look at what he did in Houston. Before he arrived it was Tmac and Yao and thats it, he turned a cast that couldnt win **** without Tmac into a team that could sustain a +.500 winning % without him. Sadly the stars he built the team around ceased to exist. So now hes left trying to make a move for a star while remaining competitive (per the Owners request). If it were up to him he would have tanked a long time ago.


exactly.

this is why i don't want us to get rid of morey. WE just haven't been able to land that superstar or tank per Les' request.

If we get dwight, maybe we get deron. win
If we get dwight, maybe he leaves. rebuild. win
if we don't get dwight, we have lots of options and hopefully rebuild. thats a win.

most rockets fans just don't want to be stuck in the we're too good to get a good draft pick or the I'm not good enough to make the playoffs.

Htownballa1622
06-26-2012, 01:29 PM
this is a results oriented business and i dont know his exact record but if i were to guess the rockets are an under .500 team in his tenure

the result doesnt match whatever hes doing and people only care about results...i give him 2 seasons especially if he doesnt make the playoffs both years before he gets an ax...unless he pulls something off to make them a contender

no one cares about "great drafting" when you aint in the playoffs because this is a result oriented business and morey isnt getting the results

im not sure. but i'm willing to bet we've been over .500 which is the problem.

Showtime Steve
06-26-2012, 01:29 PM
Now they really have to many sf's. Give us beasley!

Chronz
06-26-2012, 01:29 PM
haha, we will never agree on Kahn. You hate him, I stick up for him out of default. We can move on regarding that subject. I have zip faith in his drafting ability, we need a sold shooter and he knows Adelmans offense, win for me, under the circumstances (which is what we all deal with).

The default response is what is troubling. Your essentially admitting your bias.
Why would I hate someone I dont know? You can keep saying this but it will never be true, I dont hate Kahn. I simply think hes one of the worst GM's we have and I hate the things he says/does. Do I really have to hate someone to come to that conclusion? Or is that all you mean by Hate Kahn?
I suppose in the mind of a T'Wolves fan that may be the case but not in the mind of an objective observer, you know the kind without an automated response.

I hated (by my definition) my own teams GM for the longest time, and even when our fans were drinking the cool-aid on Oshley I believe I told you he was overrated. I dont let my team colors skew my rationale.

Chronz
06-26-2012, 01:35 PM
this is a results oriented business and i dont know his exact record but if i were to guess the rockets are an under .500 team in his tenure
They have never been below .500 during his tenure.



the result doesnt match whatever hes doing and people only care about results...
False, the results he has come to with the limited assets and late picks hes made have proven his worth. People care about results, but they dont disregard context.


i give him 2 seasons especially if he doesnt make the playoffs both years before he gets an ax...unless he pulls something off to make them a contender
I see the opposite, unless he pulls something I can see him blowing the team up and tanking on purpose. His boss has held on to the belief that the team can and will eventually net a star via the trade market, Houston is usually an attractive market so he has his reasons, but Morey has made it clear that the team is in the worst position any sports team could be in. They will take a direction one way or another and my gut tells me its lotto time.



no one cares about "great drafting" when you aint in the playoffs because this is a result oriented business and morey isnt getting the results
LOL no one cares about great drafting is your response. In spite of that well articulated response I am not convinced. Seems like being a great drafter would be a skill teams would want in a GM.

djohn2oo8
06-26-2012, 01:37 PM
Alex Kennedy ✔@AlexKennedyNBA Deron Williams had narrowed down his list to Brooklyn and Dallas. However, if Dwight Howard is traded to Houston, everything changes.

http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html

Hawkeye15
06-26-2012, 01:40 PM
The default response is what is troubling. Your essentially admitting your bias.

Of course I am. I still have to look at what Kahn inherited, and what we have now, and it's a positive result.



Why would I hate someone I dont know? You can keep saying this but it will never be true, I dont hate Kahn. I simply think hes one of the worst GM's we have and I hate the things he says/does. Do I really have to hate someone to come to that conclusion? Or is that all you mean by Hate Kahn?

Fine, I will refrain from using the term, "hate", because you are right, it's impossible to hate someone you have never met. You sure as hell take any chance possible, sometimes going out of your way, to take shots at him. You will have to excuse my blue/green blood from sticking up for him out of reaction, even when I do admit his faults. I saw a bloated financial mess with no upside when he took over. I don't see anything resembling that anymore.



I suppose in the mind of a T'Wolves fan that may be the case but not in the mind of an objective observer, you know the kind without an automated response.

see above :)


I hated (by my definition) my own teams GM for the longest time, and even when our fans were drinking the cool-aid on Oshley I believe I told you he was overrated. I dont let my team colors skew my rationale.

I think I do a pretty damn good job of that as well. By no means is Kahn perfect, and I have my doubts he is even a capable GM longterm. But he is my team's GM. I bash on him plenty in our boards, or to friends, other Wolves fans. But he took SO much heat Chronz, in his first year and a half on the job, it almost became reaction to stick up for him. I didn't agree with everything, but when you inherit what he did, you have to get worse before you can get better unfortunately. Stockpile assets, no matter how weird it looks. Were some of his decisions suspect? Ohhhhhh yeah. Flynn, Johnson, Milicic, etc. But I keep going back to where we are now, compared to when we had McFail. He was running that team into the ground. Now, we look on the verge of crashing the playoffs soon, and staying there most likely.

Hate to put it so simple, but as river said, results is all that matters. The Wolves are getting better now, and that is due to the moves Kahn has made, even though we could be farther along had he made better choices even.

Hawkeye15
06-26-2012, 01:42 PM
Kahn gets minimal to no credit for courting Rubio the way he did. How he got him to a small market, tundra is amazing to me. He also was able to snag Adelman, something many teams couldn't do. The man is far from perfect Chronz, you just choose to pick out each and every mistake, and never chime in when he does something positive. Partly why I call you out every time I see it.

smith&wesson
06-26-2012, 01:53 PM
This is a really good trade for the t.wolves.

i understand the rockets are flipping assets in to picks. but the 18th is a throw in, in another trade. nothing significant. id trade the 18th for budinger any day. i really like this trade for the t-wolves.

the rockets got KAHN'D imo. .

smith&wesson
06-26-2012, 01:53 PM
Dp

Rivera
06-26-2012, 01:59 PM
Limited assets? If hes so great at drafting why does houston have limited assets? Makes no sense

Carey
06-26-2012, 02:05 PM
exactly.

this is why i don't want us to get rid of morey. WE just haven't been able to land that superstar or tank per Les' request.

If we get dwight, maybe we get deron. win
If we get dwight, maybe he leaves. rebuild. win
if we don't get dwight, we have lots of options and hopefully rebuild. thats a win.

most rockets fans just don't want to be stuck in the we're too good to get a good draft pick or the I'm not good enough to make the playoffs.

This, worst place to be in the NBA is in the middle.

smith&wesson
06-26-2012, 02:05 PM
Nothing interesting about it, why would I bring up other GM's when they werent involved with the thread?



I disagree. I know your not speaking about Morey, Im speaking solely about Kahn and how I would measure a GM's ability to retain financial flexibility.



So it means hes going to be spending more money on a cost to production ratio. i never liked kahn in th past and always thought that he makes crazy decisions. but seeing the team now i have to wonder if theres a method to his madness.




Thats the difference, Im not looking at this as a fan of 1 team, Im viewing it on both sides. And again, I disagree with your assessment of Kahn. He hasnt shown a nice ability of doing anything IMO.


Exactly, Im commenting on that average move being one of his best decisions. Thats what I find sad. Dont know why you quoted me in the first place if your not taking offense to my facts.


I take any chance to dump on ANY GM, Kahn just provides the most ammo.



Which is why its hard to be color Kahn as a solid CAP manager if hes incapable of landing players who can net him a solid production:cost ratio.



Why would Morey lose the job for doing what his owner asks of him? If it were up to Morey he would have rebuilt a long time ago, the last place he wants to be is in the middle, thats why he doesnt give a **** if Dwight leaves. Hes willing to start over, he just needs the word from above. And him losing the job wouldnt be sad at all, it would be sad for Houston because it would lead to a downgrade but in this business its not that crippling.

Cronz you gotta give some credit where its due. im not a big kahn fan and never was. but he has turned that t-wolves team around!

last year before rubio got injured you have to admit the team was looking pretty dam good. they were competing and were in the playoff picture for the first time in i dont know how long.

the twolves are looking promicing yet again after a long long time. i use to seriously questino some of his moves and draft picks. but there is a method to his madness in the end.

Htownballa1622
06-26-2012, 02:06 PM
This, worst place to be in the NBA is in the middle.

:nod:

tbone2171
06-26-2012, 02:08 PM
This is a really good trade for the t.wolves.

i understand the rockets are flipping assets in to picks. but the 18th is a throw in, in another trade. nothing significant. id trade the 18th for budinger any day. i really like this trade for the t-wolves.

the rockets got KAHN'D imo. .

:clap:

NYMetros
06-26-2012, 02:11 PM
Limited assets? If hes so great at drafting why does houston have limited assets? Makes no sense

He is great at drafting, and a very good trader, that's why he's able to make this push for Dwight in the 1st place. Flipping Budinger (2nd round pick) for the 18th overall pick is a huge win for his cause. He's made phenomenal trades to get guys like Kevin Martin and Kyle Lowry and other draft picks that he can use as chips to get Dwight now. I don't get how you can't look at his track record and come to the conclusion that he's a very skilled GM.

Rivera
06-26-2012, 02:11 PM
Morey has built a Rockets team that has won about 59% of its games over his first four seasons as General Manager, two playoff appearances and one playoff series win. The Rockets had won about 55% of its games in the four seasons prior to his becoming General Manager, with three playoff appearances and one playoff series win.

i saw this and found it interesting...he won 4% more games but has one less playoff appearance and the same amount of playoff series as the previous regime in the same 4 year incriment....but yet hes hearlded as this all time great gm...or at least one of the best current gms when hes accomplished not that much more than the previous regime (can make a case for less with 1 less playoff appearance) and has his team right in the middle..

right in the middle meaning not quite contenders no quite lottery bound which is the worse spot you can be in as a franchise because you will never win it all and be a fringe playoff team

but hey if people are happy with that than go ahead continue to tout his excellence....


riv note: i dont think hes a bad gm before my post gets taken out of context...i just feel hes overrated because people praise his "moneyball" aspect and people like he uses numbers and advanced stats as desicison...but to act like hes the only one that uses stats to make decisions is really underminding every gm in the league. even the springfield armour d-league team uses advanced stats to evaluate players, i know this because ive been in an actual meeting with those teams officials for my company to sponsor there team. and i took the conversation from business to basketball.

John Walls Era
06-26-2012, 02:16 PM
Rockets turning past 2nd rounders into mid round picks. Not really surprised anymore at what Morey does with his picks.

Hawkeye15
06-26-2012, 02:16 PM
He is great at drafting, and a very good trader, that's why he's able to make this push for Dwight in the 1st place. Flipping Budinger (2nd round pick) for the 18th overall pick is a huge win for his cause. He's made phenomenal trades to get guys like Kevin Martin and Kyle Lowry and other draft picks that he can use as chips to get Dwight now. I don't get how you can't look at his track record and come to the conclusion that he's a very skilled GM.

This is where I disagree with you and Chronz. When a guy has been in the league for a few years, he shouldn't be labeled by his pick number. Statistically speaking, Budinger gives the production of pretty much any pick you will get at #18. Like I told Chronz, would Kahn win the trade if he sent the #18 pick for Marcus Morris, who was a #14 last year? I mean, he traded a lower pick for a higher pick, he wins, right? See where I am going here?

Furthermore, Budinger was slated top 20 in the previous draft, I remember watching his draft, laughing at how far he had fallen. He was passed way over. Guess I am as smart as Morey on that one......

Kahn can not draft. Any Wolves fan will tell you that. Go get an established player that fills a huge need for a pick that even good drafting GM's rarely get much more than a role player.

Hawkeye15
06-26-2012, 02:19 PM
Morey has built a Rockets team that has won about 59% of its games over his first four seasons as General Manager, two playoff appearances and one playoff series win. The Rockets had won about 55% of its games in the four seasons prior to his becoming General Manager, with three playoff appearances and one playoff series win.

i saw this and found it interesting...he won 4% more games but has one less playoff appearance and the same amount of playoff series as the previous regime in the same 4 year incriment....but yet hes hearlded as this all time great gm...or at least one of the best current gms when hes accomplished not that much more than the previous regime (can make a case for less with 1 less playoff appearance) and has his team right in the middle..

right in the middle meaning not quite contenders no quite lottery bound which is the worse spot you can be in as a franchise because you will never win it all and be a fringe playoff team

but hey if people are happy with that than go ahead continue to tout his excellence....


riv note: i dont think hes a bad gm before my post gets taken out of context...i just feel hes overrated because people praise his "moneyball" aspect and people like he uses numbers and advanced stats as desicison...but to act like hes the only one that uses stats to make decisions is really underminding every gm in the league. even the springfield armour d-league team uses advanced stats to evaluate players, i know this because ive been in an actual meeting with those teams officials for my company to sponsor there team. and i took the conversation from business to basketball.

I feel he is slightly overrated, but you have to consider, he never truly got to get a top tier draft pick, so he has had to mix and match a roster together by just adding nice talent at low picks. Not easy to do.

Rivera
06-26-2012, 02:23 PM
I feel he is slightly overrated, but you have to consider, he never truly got to get a top tier draft pick, so he has had to mix and match a roster together by just adding nice talent at low picks. Not easy to do.

if he was great he woulda realized what he had 4 years ago and blew them up instead of mixing and matching pieces to barely stay in the playoff picture

Sota4Ever
06-26-2012, 02:30 PM
I love how some people just gotta hate Kahn because it is Kahn. I don't think Kahn will ever get the credit he deserves.

Chronz you just make me laugh when you speak about the wolves and Kahn

Hawkeye15
06-26-2012, 02:32 PM
if he was great he woulda realized what he had 4 years ago and blew them up instead of mixing and matching pieces to barely stay in the playoff picture

I believe Morey wanted to blow it up during the latter part of the Yao years, but didn't have the okay.

AI4MVP
06-26-2012, 02:32 PM
YESSSS. let the Rubio to Budinger oops begin!

Chronz
06-26-2012, 02:44 PM
Of course I am. I still have to look at what Kahn inherited, and what we have now, and it's a positive result.
Thats a horrible excuse IMO, I dont see the point of being biased when you had no where to go but up particularly when the best player on your team was selected by the previous regime.


Fine, I will refrain from using the term, "hate", because you are right, it's impossible to hate someone you have never met. You sure as hell take any chance possible, sometimes going out of your way, to take shots at him. You will have to excuse my blue/green blood from sticking up for him out of reaction, even when I do admit his faults. I saw a bloated financial mess with no upside when he took over. I don't see anything resembling that anymore.
I never go out of my way, I just call it how I see it. I dont see the point in excusing admittedly biased behavior, I never let my allegiance to my team force me into anything. And I saw an easy team to repair in which Kahns ineptitude has only prolonged its resurrection.




see above :)
Still not a fan of biased rationale



I think I do a pretty damn good job of that as well.
If you admit having a default response to any sort of criticism, then I disagree. I never have an automated response, even when my teams GM does a decent job.



Hate to put it so simple, but as river said, results is all that matters. The Wolves are getting better now, and that is due to the moves Kahn has made, even though we could be farther along had he made better choices even.
Too simple minded for my liking.



Kahn gets minimal to no credit for courting Rubio the way he did. How he got him to a small market, tundra is amazing to me. He also was able to snag Adelman, something many teams couldn't do. The man is far from perfect Chronz, you just choose to pick out each and every mistake, and never chime in when he does something positive. Partly why I call you out every time I see it.
I honestly dont care, you call me out but every time you do all you end up doing is showing me how sad of a GM he is. And you do yourself a disservice by admitting bias.



Cronz you gotta give some credit where its due. im not a big kahn fan and never was. but he has turned that t-wolves team around!

last year before rubio got injured you have to admit the team was looking pretty dam good. they were competing and were in the playoff picture for the first time in i dont know how long.

the twolves are looking promicing yet again after a long long time. i use to seriously questino some of his moves and draft picks. but there is a method to his madness in the end.
He had a standard rebuild project that was enhanced by the predecessor giving him a franchise caliber player to build around. I have seen nothing to suggest that he is even an adequate GM, if anything he has prolonged their suffering and stunted the teams growth.



i saw this and found it interesting...he won 4% more games but has one less playoff appearance and the same amount of playoff series as the previous regime in the same 4 year incriment....but yet hes hearlded as this all time great gm...or at least one of the best current gms when hes accomplished not that much more than the previous regime (can make a case for less with 1 less playoff appearance) and has his team right in the middle..
This is why blindly looking at records with no context to personnel is so misleading. I never measure GM's by such easy standards but its curious that you ignore the fact that the team actually won a series for once.

The previous regime wasnt horrible, they did steal Tmac but they were left with a squad that could not win a game without him. Look up the Rockets record in games Tmac missed throughout his tenure, its something like 60%-20% split. He used late draft picks to surround that same lotto caliber team (Without Tmac) into a team that was capable of winning without him.

In short, he has built a championship caliber supporting cast, only he has lost the stars to lead that crew. If it were up to him, he would have rebuild a long time ago.


right in the middle meaning not quite contenders no quite lottery bound which is the worse spot you can be in as a franchise because you will never win it all and be a fringe playoff team
You can only rebuild if the owner gives you permission. Your essentially faulting Morey for doing as hes told, which is get the most out of late picks and try to make a deal for a disgruntled star the way they got Tmac.


but hey if people are happy with that than go ahead continue to tout his excellence....

Its pretty easy when you consider his expertise and how he has fostered the statistical realization that all teams are catching on to.


riv note: i dont think hes a bad gm before my post gets taken out of context...i just feel hes overrated because people praise his "moneyball" aspect and people like he uses numbers and advanced stats as desicison...but to act like hes the only one that uses stats to make decisions is really underminding every gm in the league. even the springfield armour d-league team uses advanced stats to evaluate players, i know this because ive been in an actual meeting with those teams officials for my company to sponsor there team. and i took the conversation from business to basketball.
Umm nobody acts like hes alone, they simply acknowledge the fact that hes among the best at using objective tools to enhance decision making. Pritchard and Ho are in the same category of statistical geniuses.

Losoway
06-26-2012, 02:47 PM
i like this deal for both sides ...chase is really good and underated can shoot and play above the rim

houston can go after dwight now

Rivera
06-26-2012, 02:50 PM
I like how i ignored that morey has one won playoff series but yet i stated that in my explination

And im pulling a chronz...im only looking at stats , numbers , wins and losses without context because 90% of the time when chronz argues only for or against players he only uses stats and not context

Chronz
06-26-2012, 02:52 PM
This is where I disagree with you and Chronz. When a guy has been in the league for a few years, he shouldn't be labeled by his pick number.
Your not disagreeing with me because thats not what Im doing. Im simply pointing out what it cost Morey and what it will cost Kahn. There is no way around this, Kahn is taking on talent that Morey can find in the 2nd round and is most likely going to end up paying that talent significantly more than Morey will pay the guy whos replacing him.



Statistically speaking, Budinger gives the production of pretty much any pick you will get at #18.
Depends on whos drafting, the likelihood of that changes depending on the drafter IMO. Just curious, could you show me these stats.


Like I told Chronz, would Kahn win the trade if he sent the #18 pick for Marcus Morris, who was a #14 last year? I mean, he traded a lower pick for a higher pick, he wins, right? See where I am going here?

Definitely not going in the right direction.


Furthermore, Budinger was slated top 20 in the previous draft, I remember watching his draft, laughing at how far he had fallen. He was passed way over. Guess I am as smart as Morey on that one......

Definitely smarter than Kahn. You and Bill Simmons should have been the top candidates.


Kahn can not draft. Any Wolves fan will tell you that. Go get an established player that fills a huge need for a pick that even good drafting GM's rarely get much more than a role player.

Yea but look at it from BOTH sides. The Rockets have upgraded to a mid pick while already having a replacement for Budinger that they found with another 2nd round pick. Meanwhile your team will have to pay more in 1 year (once hes resigned) than Morey will have to pay his replacement in 3 years. Thats the value of drafting.

Chronz
06-26-2012, 02:53 PM
I like how i ignored that morey has one won playoff series but yet i stated that in my explination
Where? I see you state hes played in the same amount of playoff series, I dont see any explanation that the team WON a series.


And im pulling a chronz...im only looking at stats , numbers , wins and losses without context because 90% of the time when chronz argues only for or against players he only uses stats and not context
Prove it.

Jarvo
06-26-2012, 02:54 PM
Rubio/Budinger/SF/Love/Pekovic

#swag

Looks like a rock band.

Is Beasly gone?

Chronz
06-26-2012, 02:56 PM
I love how some people just gotta hate Kahn because it is Kahn. I don't think Kahn will ever get the credit he deserves.

Chronz you just make me laugh when you speak about the wolves and Kahn
Werent you the same guy who said I hated the Twolves even though I was consistently telling my own fan base that Love was shafted of rookie teams over our own prospect (Gordon), and even now telling them that Love was better than Blake?


You can laugh all you want, but so long as you provide no logic to the discussion you just look insane. Like the homeless man who laughs everytime the police tells him he cant urinate in public.

Chronz
06-26-2012, 02:57 PM
if he was great he woulda realized what he had 4 years ago and blew them up instead of mixing and matching pieces to barely stay in the playoff picture
LOL how many times do you need to be corrected on this front? You cant do what your owner doesnt want you to do.

Chronz
06-26-2012, 03:00 PM
YESSSS. let the Rubio to Budinger oops begin!

Definitely, you guys will feel like you got Ray Allen when you see what this kid brings compared to the bums youve had the last few years. Your team is primed for a playoff run, no doubt. Solid move given your GM.

WolvesJagsOs
06-26-2012, 03:19 PM
Bud has never got great minutes for a whole year, most has been 22 MPG and he is consistently in the 9-10 PPG range with very good length. I think in a starting role in Minny which he just might get pending on who else we get this offseason, he could have a nice year. He is still only 24 yrs old.

AP=MVP
06-26-2012, 03:56 PM
Good deal for both.

Now Minnesota deals, Derrick Williams for Iggy and we are ready to go.

Hawkeye15
06-26-2012, 03:57 PM
Definitely, you guys will feel like you got Ray Allen when you see what this kid brings compared to the bums youve had the last few years. Your team is primed for a playoff run, no doubt. Solid move given your GM.

I have watched Chase for 3 years. He is much better than what we have, especially when we toss that skip pass into the corner. If I have to watch Wes Johnson and Martel Webster fill that role for 48 mins a night again, I am going to rip my eyes out of my socket and throw them in the garbage.

Hawkeye15
06-26-2012, 04:02 PM
Depends on whos drafting, the likelihood of that changes depending on the drafter IMO. Just curious, could you show me these stats.
.

http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm


The mid first round (11-20) is much more a crap shoot with as many busts as stars.

The average #18 pick goes for about 18 mpg, 6.6 pts, 3 rebs. Factoring in Kahn's drafting ability, trading for Chase is a win. He has also created major financial flexibility (he saved $600k for this summer's FA class with this move), and we have plenty to sign him to an extension. Someone like Chase, under the new CBA, unless he blows up, probably won't get more then $3-5 million per year I would guess.

b@llhog24
06-26-2012, 04:14 PM
Rubio/Budinger/SF/Love/Pekovic

#swag

Looks like a rock band.

They should trade for Gallo to complete the look.


Rubio PG
Ridnour SG
Budinger SF
Love PF
Pek C

The creamy chocolate goodness :drool:


thats racist...

How so?


Spanish people are Caucasian.

+1


I'd love to be a Houston and/or Orlando fan right now. Gossip and rumors are so much fun, haha.

Wanna trade Westbrook? :D

b@llhog24
06-26-2012, 04:15 PM
So now Morey isn't a good GM? :pity:

Hawkeye15
06-26-2012, 04:20 PM
So now Morey isn't a good GM? :pity:

I don't think anyone said that.

greg_ory_2005
06-26-2012, 04:34 PM
Chase is a solid pick up. Good deal for both sides. Let's see what's next for the Rockets.

NYMetropolitans
06-26-2012, 05:07 PM
All of this seems part of something much much bigger, and I hope it goes down.

YouCan'tBeatLA
06-26-2012, 05:57 PM
The Timberwolves just got a whole lot whiter.

IAmARanger18
06-26-2012, 05:59 PM
Gotta be apart of a bigger deal for Houston.

Wolfman01
06-26-2012, 06:00 PM
The Timberwolves just got a whole lot whiter.

I was just going to say the same thing lol. Nikola Pekovic, Kevin Love, Ricky Rubio, Luke Ridnour, J.J. Barea and now Chase Budinger lol. The T-Wolves are trying to make the whole team white haha. But on top of things they are good players.

mikekhelxD
06-26-2012, 06:12 PM
If I'm the Magic, i'll definitely pull the trigger for the Rockets trade. For what it seems like, Rockets doesn't care if Dwight becomes a rental. Maybe they have something up in their sleeves?

LongIslandIcedZ
06-26-2012, 07:22 PM
If the Wolves can manage to win a championship, there will be a movie made.

5 white starters? When was the last time that happened

KB-Pau-DH2012
06-26-2012, 09:29 PM
The Timberwolves just got a whole lot whiter.

And better. They just added a consistent knockdown shooter.

justinnum1
06-26-2012, 09:35 PM
And better. They just added a consistent knockdown shooter.

rubio
ridnour
buddinger
lover
pek