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View Full Version : Lind and Francisco up, McCoy and Cooper down



North Yorker
06-24-2012, 04:10 PM
Shi Davidi ‏@ShiDavidi

Jays recall Lind, activate Francisco, option mcCoy, Cooper to Vegas,

AA should just trade Snider already if he's not gonna give him a shot :pity:

North Yorker
06-24-2012, 04:19 PM
Shi Davidi ‏@ShiDavidi

Jays place Sergio Santos on 60-day DL to make room for Lind on 40.


Shi Davidi ‏@ShiDavidi

AA says all reports say Lind regained confidence in LV and that he forced his way back up


Shi Davidi ‏@ShiDavidi

AA says Snider wasn't considered, still early in recovery from wrist injury. Plus Francisco better off bench with Davis deserving LF job
.

StealingSigns
06-24-2012, 04:31 PM
Oh goody...

superfio
06-24-2012, 04:31 PM
Lind is understandable but francisco? Why not Gose though? Let the kid play and make his case

2009mvp
06-24-2012, 04:35 PM
Sometimes just...**** this organization. This feels like one of those times.

Toxeryll
06-24-2012, 04:35 PM
these moves are :facepalm: worthy

DeRozan10
06-24-2012, 04:37 PM
Lind is understandable but francisco? Why not Gose though? Let the kid play and make his case

Gose is still probably over a year away ...

DeRozan10
06-24-2012, 04:40 PM
What the **** is AA doing with all the roster "yo-yo-ing"

Its actually getting ****ing ridiculous ....

And this is the first negative thing I have ever said about AA ......

Sanyo
06-24-2012, 04:42 PM
I thought AA was starting to grow half a brain regarding managing the talent on this roster (yes he's great with making deals but his management of who he brings up and who stays on the roster is questionable at times) but I guess not with these moves.

2009mvp
06-24-2012, 04:43 PM
God forbid you criticize the golden child. The cool thing to do apparently is to find another scapegoat for his dumb ****. I'm sure someone was getting ready to post that these bums are up because Farrell wanted them, not AA.

Sanyo
06-24-2012, 04:43 PM
Ps- why isnt coello being sent down?

JMac4PM
06-24-2012, 04:48 PM
This is bs move imo!! And I'm a Lind fan!!!

Lind had his chance this year and he blew it! He should have to sit in AAA and wait until Cooper blows his chance... which he hasnt yet! I mean this is so stupid why doesnt Cooper get 100 ABs like Lind was given? You make Cooper sit on the bench for the entire interleague crap and then send him down when we are goin back to DH rule? So stupid!

DeRozan10
06-24-2012, 04:48 PM
Ps- why isnt coello being sent down?

"he's got a great fastball" - pat tabler

Sanyo
06-24-2012, 04:48 PM
Its funny how AA talks about how guys like Yunel and Rasmus were being mishandled, but look what he's doing under his own stinkin' nose!

Sanyo
06-24-2012, 04:48 PM
"he's got a great fastball" - pat tabler

so does my dog -- ******** aa!

wagnall
06-24-2012, 04:51 PM
.

What I don't like is that Snider wasn't even a consideration, not ready yet.

He's been back only 7 games but in those games he is 345/444/655 with an OPS 1100. [yes PCL#'s} 10 for 29, 3 hrs 10 rbis . Seems like he's back where he left off before his injury....RAKING. So " not even considered" seems rather ******** to me. He's ready, but I guess AA wants to give him another 30 -50 games to show he still can play. :rolleyes:

2009mvp
06-24-2012, 04:52 PM
50 bucks says Lind is hitting fifth first RHP he sees. And if that doesn't make you puke I don't know what will.

Sanyo
06-24-2012, 04:54 PM
What I don't like is that Snider wasn't even a consideration, not ready yet.

He's been back only 7 games but in those games he is 345/444/655 with an OPS 1100. [yes PCL#'s} 10 for 29, 3 hrs 10 rbis . Seems like he's back where he left off before his injury....RAKING. So " not even considered" seems rather ******** to me. He's ready, but I guess AA wants to give him another 30 -50 games to show he still can play. :rolleyes:

If Snider's learned to lay off the breaking pitch, he deserves to be hitting 5th for the Jays right now!

Thing that impresses me is his k/bb ratio, which is almost at 1! This is a significant improvement over his previous stints, which tells me he is definitely laying off more of those bad pitches...

wagnall
06-24-2012, 04:55 PM
50 bucks says Lind is hitting fifth first RHP he sees. And if that doesn't make you puke I don't know what will.

After this crap I could use a big heave right now! :cry:

Nica
06-24-2012, 05:03 PM
This is just a guess but to boost Linds trade value he has to have MLB at bats ?
Say what you will about his inconsistent swing. lack of confidence and his drop in production but he has played at a high level. The Jays OF is starting to get a little crowded while being light at the 1B position( and JB is destined to be there in year or two) then showcasing a newly confident Lind may make him an attractive part of any deal for a top level arm. I really hope that if the Jays are going to take on salary they do it for an Ace instead of bargain basement shopping in the DFA wires.
All I know is that if Lind is not a part of the future( and would benefit from a fresh start somewhere else) then him helping Vegas win does nothing for the parent club.

wagnall
06-24-2012, 05:11 PM
If Snider's learned to lay off the breaking pitch, he deserves to be hitting 5th for the Jays right now!

Thing that impresses me is his k/bb ratio, which is almost at 1! This is a significant improvement over his previous stints, which tells me he is definitely laying off more of those bad pitches...

I agree, last year in 187 abs he had 11 BB and 56 SO. Now it is PCL compared to MLB, but so far this year with 125 ABS he has 20 BB and only 23 SO to go with the big offensive #'s. It would seem you are right in that maybe his eyes have gotten more selective. :)

superfio
06-24-2012, 05:14 PM
Come on, its AAs time to dangle in a month or so

My guess

KJ/Lind/Cecil/Francisco/Oliver for Garza

DeRozan10
06-24-2012, 05:41 PM
What's up with Santos???

Is this retroactive???

When are we gonna see this guy???

idrinkpepsi
06-24-2012, 06:09 PM
:puke:

Krylian
06-24-2012, 06:10 PM
What's up with Santos???

Is this retroactive???

When are we gonna see this guy???

They've had to scale him back a few times during his rehab with shoulder pain. This isn't normal 'shoulder inflammation'. When did he go on the DL? Late April...early May? It's probably close to 60 days already so it's nothing really...just making room for Lind. Administrative move moving him to the 60-day DL.

Krylian
06-24-2012, 06:11 PM
:puke:

Is it the Pepsi making you barf?

jaysnraptors44
06-24-2012, 06:19 PM
AA is overrated IMO it looks like his lost most of the ****ing time !

Krylian
06-24-2012, 06:20 PM
AA is overrated IMO it looks like his lost most of the ****ing time !

Not sure what's meant by that. His lost what?

Kenny Powders
06-24-2012, 06:26 PM
Come on, its AAs time to dangle in a month or so

My guess

KJ/Lind/Cecil/Francisco/Oliver for Garza

Yah I'm sure a rebuilding club like the Cubs would take a ****** offer like that for Garza.

Krylian
06-24-2012, 06:27 PM
Yah I'm sure a rebuilding club like the Cubs would take a ****** offer like that for Garza.

I have to assume that he was just kidding.

Twitchy
06-24-2012, 06:29 PM
I just don't get why they keep giving Lind these chances. Yes, he's owed $5M but a sunk cost is a sunk cost. Give Snider 1000 AB's just like they did for Lind and they'll be better off in the long run. Might actually give this team a left handed bat that's capable of doing some damage in the middle of the lineup.

Dirty Ball Zack
06-24-2012, 06:44 PM
YES!!!!!! Francisco's back!!!!

JaysFan87
06-24-2012, 06:52 PM
What the **** is AA doing with all the roster "yo-yo-ing"

Its actually getting ****ing ridiculous ....

And this is the first negative thing I have ever said about AA ......

The back and forth has to do with the injuries to the starters and interleague play. Now with that over, roles will be more defined again. THe only think i dislike about these moves is that Snider was not here.

GrumpyOldMan
06-24-2012, 06:58 PM
I would have liked to see Cooper get more AB's. I understand that he doesn't have a lot of power, but he seems to get on base a lot more than Lind. I don't really view Cooper as a longterm first base sollution, but I thought he played well enough to deserve more playing time over Lind.

Spiderdan22
06-24-2012, 07:52 PM
Do you really think AA wanted to pay a guy $5 million to play ball in the minor leagues. This is probably a showcase for a trade or a set up for Lind's outright release.

bartron_44
06-24-2012, 08:11 PM
How can you say Snider is ready to return and Lind isn't? The guy has been obliterating left and right handed pitching. He's hitting HR's and hitting for average. Cooper hasn't exactly been on fire, and they probably don't wanna dh him. Imo they should dh lind, and let ee play 1b .

craigerlee
06-24-2012, 08:13 PM
Do you really think AA wanted to pay a guy $5 million to play ball in the minor leagues. This is probably a showcase for a trade or a set up for Lind's outright release.

He showcased Lind's sorry *** for the last two years, its time to move on. If someone needs showcasing its Snider cause this is his last option year, he's gotta be on the 25 man next year or we've lost him for good without really knowing what he's capable of doing at the big league level.

fmradioguy
06-24-2012, 09:04 PM
Do you really think AA wanted to pay a guy $5 million to play ball in the minor leagues. This is probably a showcase for a trade or a set up for Lind's outright release.

Exactly. Nobody is going to trade for a AAA player making $5 million. If the Jays are going to trade him, Lind has to show he can still be a good hitter at the major league level. Cooper was up for a month. He rocked the first half and struggled the second. He was hitting .192 the last couple of weeks. This was a lateral move at worst, but with a better potential of recouping some value on Lind if he comes up "recovered" as Cecil has.

joshhorvath
06-24-2012, 09:10 PM
im now afraid for when we have 2 runners on and 1 out.. Lind grounds into the double play! or anyone on in scoring position with 2 outs, Lind strikes out. just keep the order as

Lawrie-- 3B
Rasmus-- CF
bautista-- RF
EE-- DH/1B
Arencibia-- C
Lind-- 1B/DH
Johnson-- 2B
Escobar-- SS
Davis--LF

2009mvp
06-24-2012, 09:24 PM
Can someone explain which GM is gonna change his mind on Lind based on the next ~30 days when he's got the past 2+ years to look at??? Think people, this changes nothing. All this does is put another middling bat with no future in the lineup. Bangup job AA.

JermanJaysFan
06-24-2012, 10:02 PM
Can someone explain which GM is gonna change his mind on Lind based on the next ~30 days when he's got the past 2+ years to look at??? Think people, this changes nothing. All this does is put another middling bat with no future in the lineup. Bangup job AA.
Seems unlikely, but stranger things have happened. People are inclined to look at stories instead of numbers sometimes.

bomber0104
06-24-2012, 11:12 PM
Its funny how AA talks about how guys like Yunel and Rasmus were being mishandled, but look what he's doing under his own stinkin' nose!

BINGO.. wtf is up with that..

AA has been making a lot of questionable moves lately.. having Snider in AAA this late is a crime

Dol-Fan
06-24-2012, 11:48 PM
My guess is that he's trying to squeeze some trade value out of Francisco, perhaps a middling reliever or low level prospect (borderline non-prospect...) before DFAing him.

Lind, I can't explain, except that he'll offer similar production to guys like Cooper and Gomes and is getting paid more money.

OptiMized
06-24-2012, 11:59 PM
Shi Davidi said that Francisco had to be activated because he was on a rehab stint, and thats why he's up. I dunno he said it on Connected. Also he said that AA feels that snider's wrist isn't ready, or to put it another way he hasn't seen enough since he's come back

ah nuts
06-25-2012, 12:33 AM
I'm okay with this.
Snider is not here cus of Raj has been a little too good of late.

If Lind come here and hits red hot - trade bait.
If he doesn't hit, even Lind fans/supporters can't question Lind's value(or lack of). He is a goner.

Can't see this impacting the jays either way. We're pretty much screwed anyway.

Snider will be here soon enough, a few more weeks with Chad won't hurt. He just got back... good test for him to keep his consistency after a bit of a lay off.

Halladay
06-25-2012, 01:01 AM
What is this...Lind has been garbage for how long now and Snider has been raking in the minors and is running out of options and it's clear it's now or never for him in a Jays uniform. I cannot justify this in any way.

mtf
06-25-2012, 02:05 AM
Without reasonable (not amazing, just reasonable) starting pitching, who even cares. I'm sure they're just trying to build Lind's value or see if he really has improved. I'm not a Lind fan, but if he has improved it'd be good to see a top 5 in the lineup, rather than just a top 4.

1hardcore
06-25-2012, 02:11 AM
****en organization... If i was Snider i would really demand a trade!!!! Theyre reallly ****ing up his career now.:facepalm:

Rogi10
06-25-2012, 03:44 AM
maybe lind has change.... aww **** it, He sucks, and AA needs to stop pretending he's an option anywhere on the field.

Halladay
06-25-2012, 07:04 AM
Why do people suggest Lind is tradebait at all? are we assuming GM's around baseball have been taking bath salts and haven't noticed how horrendous he's been over the years?

mtf
06-25-2012, 07:25 AM
Why do people suggest Lind is tradebait at all? are we assuming GM's around baseball have been taking bath salts and haven't noticed how horrendous he's been over the years?

If you're referring to my comment, I was saying they may be hoping he has turned it around to some degree to try to build up his value for a possible future trade.

Again, I'm not a Lind fan, but there's a false assumption around here that players are either high value or no value. There's in between values as well. Right now he's almost no value, maybe he can build it. I don't expect it, but maybe they're hoping for it.

wamco
06-25-2012, 08:06 AM
how much trade bait could lind be. he was DFA'd, even though AA said he wasn't, and anyone could have had him at that time for the vet minimum.

mtf
06-25-2012, 08:08 AM
how much trade bait could lind be. he was DFA'd, even though AA said he wasn't, and anyone could have had him at that time for the vet minimum.

If you as well were referring to my comment, all I said was maybe they're trying to build up value if he has indeed turned it around to some degree.

craigerlee
06-25-2012, 08:23 AM
My guess is that he's trying to squeeze some trade value out of Francisco, perhaps a middling reliever or low level prospect (borderline non-prospect...) before DFAing him.

Lind, I can't explain, except that he'll offer similar production to guys like Cooper and Gomes and is getting paid more money.

If this is really the idea then were not gonna see Snider for at least a month as there's no way Francisco can build any value that quickly. So once again were gonna be lucky if we see 250 PA's out of Snider. **** this organization.

bartron_44
06-25-2012, 09:02 AM
Guys, we are in a playoff race, and our need was at 1B/DH...not in the OF. If you haven't noticed, Davis put up an OPS of .915 in May (when he got to play), and is hitting .324/.387/.857 with 9 SB's over the last 28 days. If/when Davis cools off and goes into a slump, then we may see Snider. Right now there is simply no need to change the OF.

I think AA really likes EE at 1B, and is going to play Lind at DH, and didn't want to make Cooper a full time DH and lower his value. Lind isn't just hitting well, he is obliterating AAA.

In 124 ABs:
.395/.451/1.120 with 8 HR's and 10 doubles

NOTE: For comparison, Snider in 125 AB's in AAA in 2012:
.336/.419/1.035 with 8 HR's and 11 doubles

I think Cooper also has GREAT trade value right now. He has an OPS of .767 this year, and if you combine his second stint in the bigs last season with his time spent in the bigs this year, he is 30-103 (.291), with 3 HR's and 9 doubles. Those are pretty solid numbers.

miller74
06-25-2012, 09:07 AM
Come on, its AAs time to dangle in a month or so

My guess

KJ/Lind/Cecil/Francisco/Oliver for Garza

wow how havent cubs jumped all over that deal

miller74
06-25-2012, 09:09 AM
Its Lind over Snider because the jays need a 1B right now, Davis is hitting well why take him out at this point.

Twitchy
06-25-2012, 09:13 AM
Its Lind over Snider because the jays need a 1B right now, Davis is hitting well why take him out at this point.

If only there was a way to play another guy at first so Snider could be with the Jays. I wish there was someone on this roster who was hitting well and could play first...

Oh wait, that's right, we do have a 1B in Encarnacion!

Whoever is called up is pretty much here to DH. So I don't buy that whole needing a 1B thing or Snider not having a position. The Jays could have Davis in LF, Encarnacion at 1B and Snider at DH and be much better than Davis in LF EE at DH and Lind at first.

Sanyo
06-25-2012, 09:28 AM
If they havent brought up Snider, the only reason I think is because they still want to see how his wrist is doing and that Davis is doing so well.

Knowing AA, he is all about "maximizing value" and if he throws either Davis or Snider into DH, he isn't "maximizing their value". Yeah, yeah, I know, its kinda insane, though I can see his point as well since that almost anyone on the Jays could be trade bait.

Anyways, I'll give the Jays the benefit of the doubt and say its only because they want to see Snider full healthy before they make the jump -- I'll give them maybe another few days before I blow a gasket.

ah nuts
06-25-2012, 11:24 AM
Why do people suggest Lind is tradebait at all? are we assuming GM's around baseball have been taking bath salts and haven't noticed how horrendous he's been over the years?

gms can get pretty dumb at trading deadline. If Lind gets scorching hot, which he done last May(I believe), he can be part of a package. Point is, getting rid of him with some dignity.

ILDD
06-25-2012, 12:04 PM
I'm OK with the move, it seems like it a "one last chance" kind of move.

Lind up: He was sent down to work on his swing. Maybe he's done that and warrants another shot. If he comes up and plays DH then who is he taking AB's from? Cooper? Gomes? Nothing lost there, I don't think anybody genuinely thinks these guys can contribute on a winning club in anything more than a bench role. If Lind sucks again over the next 100 AB's (say) then he's cut loose.

Francisco up: AA is giving the veteran a chance to contribute as a 4th OF. My guess is that he stays until Davis' ht streak comes to an end. At that point Snider will come up to play LF full time and Davis moves to 4th outfielder and Fransicso to 5th OF or released. You don't want Snider up until he's going to play LF full time and that isn't going to happen until Davis cools off and looking a career numbers that should be soon.

Jays#1
06-25-2012, 12:29 PM
None of us have access to what goes on in the front office. I'm sure AA does these call ups/send downs with a ton of information from his coaches and scouts down in AAA. Maybe they are the ones telling him they don't think Snider is ready yet or that Lind is definately back and deserves the call-up. We don't know. Point is AA and the Blue Jays front office is in a much better place to make these decisions than any of us and sometimes you just gotta have blind faith that they are hired for a reason and know what they are doing.

2009mvp
06-25-2012, 12:40 PM
^^I might be willing to do that if this front office hasn't missed badly at the big league level before. I'm sure they had a reason for starting Corey Patterson, Juan Rivera, Jayson Nix, Dwayne Wise, JoJo Reyes, Dana Eveland, and Brian Tallet too, doesn't make it any less of a dumb decision.

JaysFan87
06-25-2012, 12:44 PM
Guys, we are in a playoff race, and our need was at 1B/DH...not in the OF. If you haven't noticed, Davis put up an OPS of .915 in May (when he got to play), and is hitting .324/.387/.857 with 9 SB's over the last 28 days. If/when Davis cools off and goes into a slump, then we may see Snider. Right now there is simply no need to change the OF.

I think AA really likes EE at 1B, and is going to play Lind at DH, and didn't want to make Cooper a full time DH and lower his value. Lind isn't just hitting well, he is obliterating AAA.

In 124 ABs:
.395/.451/1.120 with 8 HR's and 10 doubles

NOTE: For comparison, Snider in 125 AB's in AAA in 2012:
.336/.419/1.035 with 8 HR's and 11 doubles

I think Cooper also has GREAT trade value right now. He has an OPS of .767 this year, and if you combine his second stint in the bigs last season with his time spent in the bigs this year, he is 30-103 (.291), with 3 HR's and 9 doubles. Those are pretty solid numbers.

Triple slash lines are AVG/OBP/SLG NOT AVG/OBP/OPS

Jays#1
06-25-2012, 12:54 PM
^^I might be willing to do that if this front office hasn't missed badly at the big league level before. I'm sure they had a reason for starting Corey Patterson, Juan Rivera, Jayson Nix, Dwayne Wise, JoJo Reyes, Dana Eveland, and Brian Tallet too, doesn't make it any less of a dumb decision.

I'll give you that , but we are not talking solely about the big league level right now, we are talking about when to call up/send guys down from/to the minors. This front office has turned the Blue Jays farm system from one of the worst in the league to one of the best, so they must know a little bit about what they are doing in terms of player development no?

StayOnBoard
06-25-2012, 01:13 PM
Im not sure how anyone can defend this - I don't give a sweet **** what Lind's stats are in Vegas... if he can't hit in vegas, he should simply retire.... especially given his age and the level of competition.

I just don't get this move at all.... it's not even Lind that irritates the **** out of me, but why are you recalling Francisco? Where is Snider? And no timetable for his return? Is that because he's already in talks for trades and you just haven't pulled the trigger yet?

Awful decision... I don't understand it at all....

bartron_44
06-25-2012, 01:32 PM
Triple slash lines are AVG/OBP/SLG NOT AVG/OBP/OPS

I know, I just care more about OPS....and don't want to put a quadruple slash..

I was pretty sure most people knew those were avg/obp/ops numbers....but I guess I should probably clarify since it isn't the "standard" triple slash.

2009mvp
06-25-2012, 01:39 PM
^^Uhh OPS is in a typical slash line, provided the reader can handle second grade arithmetic that is.

StayOnBoard
06-25-2012, 01:42 PM
I know, I just care more about OPS....and don't want to put a quadruple slash..

I was pretty sure most people knew those were avg/obp/ops numbers....but I guess I should probably clarify since it isn't the "standard" triple slash.

Well, honestly the problem is, that way of writing is just wrong. The same way you wouldn't type other stats with some strange annotation.....

Most people can look at the numbers and try to figure out what you mean, but that's not how it's written. If you care more about OPS, it's fine (you should care about OPS) but then write it out "the long way". Don't short hand it with the triple slash because it's simply incorrect :) If you want to use OPS, add two numbers together LOL!

JaysFan87
06-25-2012, 02:01 PM
I know, I just care more about OPS....and don't want to put a quadruple slash..

I was pretty sure most people knew those were avg/obp/ops numbers....but I guess I should probably clarify since it isn't the "standard" triple slash.

There is no need to clarify its just never ever ever the way you are doing. Like 2009mvp said a person that has passed through elementary school can add. There is no need for a quad slash line. just avg/obp/slg everything can be had using those numbers...liek OPS.

wagnall
06-25-2012, 03:15 PM
^ maybe we should open a thread on this. :o:hide::)

Kenny Powders
06-25-2012, 04:19 PM
The only good thing to come of this is me being able to update my Adam Lind stats.

bomber0104
06-25-2012, 06:25 PM
Looks like i should post more for the sake of some people's sanity