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View Full Version : Harden should be the blame for this series, not Westbrook



LTBaByyy
06-19-2012, 11:56 PM
Without Westbrook going off, OKC wouldn't even be close

Thunder should trade Harden while they can before he lose his value

He hasn't played good at all this playoffs, Bobcats are offering the #2 pick I would think about that

They can draft Beal who plays the same exact way and will be cheap

Harden will get offered money that the Thunder can't match if they want a complete team and talent throughout that whole roster

b@llhog24
06-19-2012, 11:57 PM
And cue the overreaction threads.

dh144498
06-19-2012, 11:57 PM
I agree, the dude is playing like absolute garbage.

Swashcuff
06-20-2012, 12:00 AM
By Harden's standards he has played poorly overall this series but I don't get the blaming anyone. I mean seriously these are the two best teams from each conference (and the two best teams in the league) its not going to be a walk in the park. The Heat are a legitimate Championship calibre team. Casting blame on a player as if he is the reason the Heat are up instead of giving the Heat credit really isn't fair.

Harden has been poor on both ends of the floor but I won't necessarily say he deserves blame for the Thunder being down 3-1.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-20-2012, 12:00 AM
People blamed Westbrook for the game, not the series.

LTBaByyy
06-20-2012, 12:01 AM
I just think these playoffs Harden is playing horrible and I can't believe some people were overrating him saying he is the 3rd best SG in NBA

Lets wait a while before we say that

Driven
06-20-2012, 12:02 AM
And cue the overreaction threads.
Harden has been absolutely horrible, though.

LTBaByyy
06-20-2012, 12:02 AM
Lets face it the series is over

Harden has played bad the whole playoffs not just this series

You can't say the Heat are just good, when Harden played bad against the Mavs, Lakers, and Spurs also

mvb815
06-20-2012, 12:02 AM
shooting 41% in the first 3 games doesn't help either

Swashcuff
06-20-2012, 12:03 AM
People blamed Westbrook for the game, not the series.

Actually he has been blamed for the series. Not only that he has been blamed for the Thunder's hopes of being potential title winners.

Westbrook has been taking more blame than anyone not named LeBron James this season and just as in LeBron's case by no means is it warranted.

Chronz
06-20-2012, 12:04 AM
The same guy who complained about lack of touches is now reluctant to shoot? Harden doesnt deserve that beard hes grown

njnets825
06-20-2012, 12:04 AM
How about giving credit instead of pointing fingers? He's having a bad series so far, he's played well leading up to the finals. He was a machine vs the spurs

njnets
06-20-2012, 12:05 AM
this was by far the worst game that I have seen harden play. he looked hesitant, passive, lost sometimes.

he was not himself. he missed that fast break layup and he didnt even look to shoot when he was wide open near the end of the game. he never got into a rhythm whatsoever.

there are always multiple components to wins/losses but harden is definitely one of the reasons the thunder have lost the last 2 games. 4/20 as the teams 3rd scorer in the last two games is awful. hes gotta play much better than that.

i think he is costing them in the series but he is not the whole reason. nobody is. his impact on the losses is definitely crucial though.

Swashcuff
06-20-2012, 12:07 AM
Up until game 1 of the Finals Harden had scored in double figures of every game this post season against the West as well as scoring 20+ on 4 separate occasions. To say he has been atrocious this post season really has no grounds. Ever thought that just maybe the Heat defense has really messed with his psyche? Harden played quite well against the west for OKC but thus far in the finals has been underwhelming in 3 out of the 4 games.

Sadds The Gr8
06-20-2012, 12:07 AM
cant believe how crap hes been

dh144498
06-20-2012, 12:07 AM
I think Spoelstra's really improving as a coach. He's trapping Harden hard on his pick and rolls, it's really throwing his rhythm off (although missing wide open shots doesn't help as well).

sweet-d
06-20-2012, 12:08 AM
Harden does deserve to be blamed but so does Scott Brooks he kills the thunder's momentum every time they goes on runs.

Corndog
06-20-2012, 12:10 AM
I think it would pretty hard to turn down a #2 pick for Harden, you could potentially get a much better player. As far as panicking, let's face the facts this is a young team who really got here sooner than most of us expected. I think if this team can stay together they will win a championship in the future if not several. However that is the big if, if this team can stay together?

b@llhog24
06-20-2012, 12:10 AM
I just think these playoffs Harden is playing horrible and I can't believe some people were overrating him saying he is the 3rd best SG in NBA

Lets wait a while before we say that
He's still playing whereas the likes of Joe Johnson, Monta Ellis, etc are sitting home on a couch.


Harden has been absolutely horrible, though.

I know but he's saying trade him, why would you trade him after a performance like this?


The same guy who complained about lack of touches is now reluctant to shoot? Harden doesnt deserve that beard hes grown

:pity:

Baller1
06-20-2012, 12:11 AM
I'm willing to bet that Westbrook will have some of the best numbers in Finals history when this series is over...

Swashcuff
06-20-2012, 12:11 AM
I think Spoelstra's really improving as a coach. He's trapping Harden hard on his pick and rolls, it's really throwing his rhythm off (although missing wide open shots doesn't help as well).

Precisely but the whole throwing him off his rhythm could be the reason why he is missing open shots... he just doesn't have the confidence.

We gotta remember that this OKC team is the 2nd youngest in NBA Finals history and Harden is only 22 years of age. These guys have a lot of learning and adapting to do. Just casting blame on Harden, Westbrook, KD etc isn't fair if you're not going to look at it holistically.

LTBaByyy
06-20-2012, 12:11 AM
Westbrook has been blame forever for the Thunder

He is blamed more than Scott Brooks, Harden is going to cost this team a championship

And a lot of money when contract time comes. He will probably get 14 mil a year

That's too much for someone on the bench, they should trade him while he has value

Bobcats are willing to give the 2nd pick! Why not think about it to draft Beal who does the same thing Harden does and will be way cheaper

soonabooma
06-20-2012, 12:11 AM
By Harden's standards he has played poorly overall this series but I don't get the blaming anyone. I mean seriously these are the two best teams from each conference (and the two best teams in the league) its not going to be a walk in the park. The Heat are a legitimate Championship calibre team. Casting blame on a player as if he is the reason the Heat are up instead of giving the Heat credit really isn't fair.

Harden has been poor on both ends of the floor but I won't necessarily say he deserves blame for the Thunder being down 3-1.

Because these little turds are making the Heat look better than they really are. They're good but come on. They're not having to do any work because our guys are gift wrapping it for em. Westbrook has been absolutely horrible because he cancels out all the good with too much bad. Harden has been a no show, and KD still finds a way to make enough bonehead plays that it hurts us. They're cocky, arrogant, disrespectful, and their hearts are not in it. Sorry, but it's true. The Heat are a fine team, but our guys have made it way too easy on em. It's a real shame, because it was right there for the taking. I've lost all respect for this team because they don't respect the position they're in. They talk real humble when the cameras are in their faces, but when it's game time, they show just how much they let all the talk about them go to their heads. I don't care if they ever come back. It's FOOTBALL time!

b@llhog24
06-20-2012, 12:12 AM
I'm willing to bet that Westbrook will have some of the best numbers in Finals history when this series is over...

I was wondering about that, any idea where I could find those numbers?

willabeast77
06-20-2012, 12:13 AM
Harden has been getting a lot of blame from the media, which is deserved.

DoMeFavors
06-20-2012, 12:13 AM
It should actually be Perkins fault guy has done NOTHING, played awful d and awful o...what a waste

BALLER R
06-20-2012, 12:13 AM
He's still playing whereas the likes of Joe Johnson, Monta Ellis, etc are sitting home on a couch.



I know but he's saying trade him, why would you trade him after a performance like this?



:pity:

So by that standard Harden is also better than Kobe ?

soonabooma
06-20-2012, 12:13 AM
I could care less if Harden ever suits up for the Thunder again. If it comes down to he and Serge, I want to keep Serge. We can find scorers any time. You can't find a shot blocker like Serge. Keep Serge, get rid of ugly beard, and sign Jason Terry.....problem solved.

b@llhog24
06-20-2012, 12:14 AM
So by that standard Harden is also better than Kobe ?

Kobe's in competition for third best Sg? :pity:

Swashcuff
06-20-2012, 12:14 AM
Westbrook has been blame forever for the Thunder

He is blamed more than Scott Brooks, Harden is going to cost this team a championship

And a lot of money when contract time comes. He will probably get 14 mil a year

That's too much for someone on the bench, they should trade him while he has value

Bobcats are willing to give the 2nd pick! Why not think about it to draft Benalcazar who does the same thing Harden does and will be way cheaper

I know you're not brave respond but could you explain this point?

soonabooma
06-20-2012, 12:15 AM
Perkins is DEFINITELY a waste of space. We got screwed when we lost out on the Tyson Chandler trade because he was hurt. Dallas got to have him healthy and he made a huge difference. I'd trade Perkins and Harden for TC and Jason Terry any day of the week.

b@llhog24
06-20-2012, 12:17 AM
Perkins is DEFINITELY a waste of space. We got screwed when we lost out on the Tyson Chandler trade because he was hurt. Dallas got to have him healthy and he made a huge difference. I'd trade Perkins and Harden for TC and Jason Terry any day of the week.

That team wouldn't even make it to the finals. :facepalm:

EDIT: I just saw that it's impossible so I'm assuming this is a joke.

LTBaByyy
06-20-2012, 12:18 AM
I hate autocorrect, I said beal and it put Benalcazar? ??

LTBaByyy
06-20-2012, 12:20 AM
If Harden played like he did in the season, they would have beat this Heat team for the title

He cost them the championship, Thunder needed a 3rd big time scorer

It has basically been Durant and Westbrook going off big time and the others

soonabooma
06-20-2012, 12:23 AM
That team wouldn't even make it to the finals. :facepalm:

EDIT: I just saw that it's impossible so I'm assuming this is a joke.

You must not know basketball son.

Teeboy1487
06-20-2012, 12:23 AM
To his defense, he is guarding Lebron James and it's taking away from his offensive game. I think it's bad coaching to have him guard Lebron. Scott Brooks should have saw that in the Lakers series when Harden was guarding Kobe and struggled.

Baller1
06-20-2012, 12:24 AM
I was wondering about that, any idea where I could find those numbers?

I'm sure there's a way to check it out on basketball-reference.

b@llhog24
06-20-2012, 12:24 AM
You must not know basketball son.

So it wasn't a joke, aside from it being a dumb trade, Tyson Chandler and JET aren't even on the same team anymore.

Swashcuff
06-20-2012, 12:26 AM
If Harden played like he did in the season, they would have beat this Heat team for the title

He cost them the championship, Thunder needed a 3rd big time scorer

It has basically been Durant and Westbrook going off big time and the others

So what if Wade played like he played?

Or what about Bosh what if he played like he played in the regular season?

I mean seriously don't you understand how foolish you're sounding?

Harden played against the Heat twice during the regular season. This is the post season where the game is completely different. During the regular season Harden saw a host of different opponents night in night out so how can you honestly expect him to replicate that sort of performance against one of the best perimeter defensive (though they haven't looked it this series) teams in the entire NBA?

I mean seriously you're coming in here with a what if? Seriously. What if Wade was healthy? How about Mike Miller what if he was making threes the way everyone knows he can? GTFO with these what ifs and make actually try to make a serious argument.

What if the Heat are just the better team? Ever thought about that one?

b@llhog24
06-20-2012, 12:27 AM
To his defense, he is guarding Lebron James and it's taking away from his offensive game. I think it's bad coaching to have him guard Lebron. Scott Brooks should have saw that in the Lakers series when Harden was guarding Kobe and struggled.

While I do agree, does Brooks really have a choice? It's either keep Thabo in more extensive minutes and have an anemic(?) offense in which he'll still get burned anyways or put Durant on him, and we've seen how that's worked out.

C_Mund
06-20-2012, 12:27 AM
This is also a super young kid who's in his first NBA finals. Not to mention he had a concussion about a week before the playoffs started.
Besides I'm seeing some pretty poor play calling by Brooks, seeing as their whole 4th quarter plan was to take turns going 1-on-1.
Doesn't excuse missing the open shots he's been getting but you can't expect every player to step up against a team like the Heat

Swashcuff
06-20-2012, 12:28 AM
To his defense, he is guarding Lebron James and it's taking away from his offensive game. I think it's bad coaching to have him guard Lebron. Scott Brooks should have saw that in the Lakers series when Harden was guarding Kobe and struggled.

Well I'm guessing he didn't want to run the risk of getting KD in foul trouble again in this one. Harden has been underwhelming defensively the entire post season regardless of who has been defending.

MagicBucsSox
06-20-2012, 12:34 AM
James Harden is the best sg according to PSD remember that thread

VCaintdead17
06-20-2012, 12:36 AM
******** thread gets made. Swashcuff busts skulls. Moving on.

Wade n Fade
06-20-2012, 12:39 AM
Hold on here, if OKC even entertains that idea, they could draft Thomas Robinson or Bradley Beal. So can Robinson help solve OKC's lack of an inside threat? Idk what to think about the deal.

KB-Pau-DH2012
06-20-2012, 12:39 AM
These finals make James Harden expendable. Get some good pieces that actually compliment WestBrook and Durant. Because the only time really that Harden shines is when the other two go to the bench and he comes off the bench.

Or just do Ibaka + Perkins + Harden + 1st rounder to Orlando for Dwight+Anderson+Reddick.

b@llhog24
06-20-2012, 12:41 AM
James Harden is the best sg according to PSD remember that thread

It was in the reg season.

D12 fan
06-20-2012, 12:43 AM
These finals make James Harden expendable. Get some good pieces that actually compliment WestBrook and Durant. Because the only time really that Harden shines is when the other two go to the bench and he comes off the bench.

Or just do Ibaka + Perkins + Harden + 1st rounder to Orlando for Dwight+Anderson+Reddick.

I agree,we get a great package for Dwight,and OKC creates a dynasty with Westbrook/Durant/Dwight

LTBaByyy
06-20-2012, 12:44 AM
I'm sorry hut they need to either start Harden next season or start looking at trades

Would you pay a guy $14 million per year or more off the bench?

Thats too much, and there will be a desperate team that offers him more than 14 mil

GSWFanInLA
06-20-2012, 01:06 AM
I agree,we get a great package for Dwight,and OKC creates a dynasty with Westbrook/Durant/Dwight

We? Aren't you a Heat fan?

Jarvo
06-20-2012, 01:22 AM
It's funny how people are saying it's the team fault they lost but if the Heat lose most of you point out one player.

Jarvo
06-20-2012, 01:23 AM
Harden & Ibaka sucked this series.

sharqstealth
06-20-2012, 01:41 AM
How can you fear the beard if the beard himself is afraid to take the shot? There was play in the 4th where he was wiiiide open and he was hesitant to take the shot, not the Harden I've known...

Lakersfan2483
06-20-2012, 01:54 AM
Funny how people are down on Harden now because 2 wks ago, everyone had him ranked as the 3rd best shooting guard in the NBA and a top 20 player. Harden has been exposed in the finals and has been a no show. People tend to overrate players because of a few good perfomances........ The finals has really been an eye opener in terms of where Harden stands currently.

cutiepie80
06-20-2012, 01:58 AM
Harden has been a joke and Sefelosha has missed every shot he has put up.

LTBaByyy
06-20-2012, 02:12 AM
I think the Thunder should explore trading him while he still has some value before coughing up money they can't afford

Right now he has Many Ginoboli type value so they need to explore trades before they find out he is just Jamal Crawford/JR Smith value

basketfan4life
06-20-2012, 02:45 AM
And people were claiming the lakers would be better off with Harden this year instead of Kobe. Oh boy.

Snapshot
06-20-2012, 02:53 AM
Simply put, dude isn"t focused, at all. He's too in the hype, and playing 3 straight games in Miami was the worst possible thing for him. He has been spotted out on South Beach every night since he's been there.. hitting clubs with rapper, Trina, and also going out with a female acquaintance of LB. Someone on the Thunder team or staff need to lock him in his room until game 5 if OKC has any chance at extending this series.

jam
06-20-2012, 02:56 AM
It's been very close. OKC has been two or three plays worse than Miami in the last 3. They're a young inexperienced team, and they're being led by a young, relatively inexperienced coach. There's not much for OKC to do except to play hard and gain the necessary experience for future championship pushes.

The series isn't over yet, but obviously, it's Miami's series to lose now.

sunsfan88
06-20-2012, 03:39 AM
I think it's starting to become obvious that Harden is not a max contract player. Cause first of all he's a huge liability on defense. This was covered up when they were winning but if you looked closely and watched Thunder games, you would realize that Harden is a huge liability defensively. Players who play on just one end of the floor don't deserve max deals (unless they have Nash type effect)

And the league is starting to take note that Harden is such a flopped so he's barely getting any calls. And this will continue to be the case going forward....if Harden can't flop and fool officials, he's really not all that effective.

With suspensions possibly coming for floppers, it drives Harden's value even lower.

QueensG
06-20-2012, 03:58 AM
I blame harden too. he's looking like a deer in the headlights out there, just terrible. cut that ****ing beard already!

sventhedog
06-20-2012, 04:13 AM
i agree. he has outchoked lebron in this series plain and simple.

Bravo95
06-20-2012, 04:15 AM
By Harden's standards he has played poorly overall this series but I don't get the blaming anyone. I mean seriously these are the two best teams from each conference (and the two best teams in the league) its not going to be a walk in the park. The Heat are a legitimate Championship calibre team. Casting blame on a player as if he is the reason the Heat are up instead of giving the Heat credit really isn't fair.

Harden has been poor on both ends of the floor but I won't necessarily say he deserves blame for the Thunder being down 3-1.
All of this.

popo85
06-20-2012, 04:25 AM
Not a 1st option on any team, teams should be smart and not give him the full max.

sventhedog
06-20-2012, 04:48 AM
"blame the beard." - james harden

Jenceman
06-20-2012, 06:00 AM
But i thought Harden was better than Kobe???

kblo247
06-20-2012, 08:19 AM
Funny how people are down on Harden now because 2 wks ago, everyone had him ranked as the 3rd best shooting guard in the NBA and a top 20 player. Harden has been exposed in the finals and has been a no show. People tend to overrate players because of a few good perfomances........ The finals has really been an eye opener in terms of where Harden stands currently.

The Lakers lost to them, but they damn sure showed a blueprint on how to make any game versus OKC winnable despite what Russ and KD do. Kobe and Ron are older than Wade and LeBron and have worse subs, but they made concerted efforts to shut Harden down by sitting on his hand and he shot in the 30's from the field and 20's from three versus both men. He also could defend neither on the box or off the dribble on clear outs. The series would be over and margin of victory greater if Wade was healthy because Harden is a liability as a scorer and defender. He also doesn't rebound and his playmaking is exposed when the bs flops don't get called for when he jumps into guys the refs like/tolerate/respect.

But as I remember some posters manram (looking at you) saying he's so efficent, so good, and could replace Kobe and even Wade thus making the team better ... Like I said LMFAO, **** off with that bs when he gets locked in on.

Boy needs to give that beard up, he ain't earned it

MR.TRIPDUB
06-20-2012, 09:49 AM
I think it would pretty hard to turn down a #2 pick for Harden, you could potentially get a much better player. As far as panicking, let's face the facts this is a young team who really got here sooner than most of us expected. I think if this team can stay together they will win a championship in the future if not several. However that is the big if, if this team can stay together?

this is the problem for young teams being great too soon its almost impossible to keep them intact. had they not blew off this year,maybe harden and ibaka would have lesser value.
does thta make sense?

TO Rapz
06-20-2012, 09:57 AM
Put Sef on James for more time, free up Harden a bit more and let him get going early. Basketball is as much a mental sport as much as it is physical, when you're struggling, you don't have the confidence and swagger to go up and drain the J's and 3's you usually hit. Watching James Harden play yesterday, you can tell he had no confidence. So EARLY in the game, free up Harden for a bit and bring in Sef off the bench. Let him get his points early and his confidence will be back up. You cannot evaluate a player based off 3 games, when he's been solid for the whole year and decent throughout the playoffs, quit overreacting, please..

felixng2012
06-20-2012, 10:12 AM
Actually he has been blamed for the series. Not only that he has been blamed for the Thunder's hopes of being potential title winners.

Westbrook has been taking more blame than anyone not named LeBron James this season and just as in LeBron's case by no means is it warranted.

This Durant and Harden have gotten no blame and Westbrook has been blamed for everything. Durant had 2 boards today. How does someone as tall as he have only 2 boards? In fact look at the Finals stats.

KD:. 30.2 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 2.0 apg, 1.2 spg 1.0 bpg, 55% fg
RW: 29.0 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 6.7 apg, 0.7 spg 0.5 bpg, 48% fg

RW has averaged far more rebounds than KD this series. Also him not passing is overstated. 6.7 apg is good considering he is scoring a lot on decent efficiency. Also don't give me that crud about Durant being a perimeter shooter and thus not having much boards. Dirk has averaged 10 boards his entire playoff career. Bird has averaged 10 boards his entire regular season career. A measly 2 rebounds in a do or die game will not do at all.

BK-TY
06-20-2012, 10:29 AM
Don't blame Harden OR Westbrook... blame the Heat!

Jarvo
06-20-2012, 11:02 AM
But i thought Harden was better than Kobe???

:facepalm: You my friend are a liar liar pants on fire ! Who said that ********!? Lol :faint:

BALLER R
06-20-2012, 05:42 PM
So game 5 is on Harden. He either proves us wrong or fails.

Ebbs
06-20-2012, 05:47 PM
He has played the poorest of those expected to be "stars" but than all year I have battled PSD's "statasticians" At the start of the post season many of PSD's more popular posters were sayign they'd take him over Kobe, Wade and Manu...