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View Full Version : With the right coach/system.. Could Tyreke Evans & DMC become a dynamic duo?



HouRealCoach
06-19-2012, 09:51 AM
I really think they could. Tyreke was great when he was at pg & dmc is a great center. I think they need more veterans tho

What do you all think?

& do you think they will be better than Love/Rubio in the coming years?

sixer04fan
06-19-2012, 10:18 AM
The potential is there, sure. I don't know if they'll ever get it to work though. And one of them will probably be shipped out before it happens.

I don't see them ever being as good as the Love-Rubio potential though.

fadedmario
06-19-2012, 11:01 AM
No. Both can't shoot for ****.

WaltonSystem
06-19-2012, 11:07 AM
I don't think they work out well together, DMC demands the ball often and when Tyreke was at 'pg' he was a ball dominator.

Trading Tyreke for another player wouldn't be the worst thing Sacramento could do. They will be a lottery team again next year so the young talent is going to be coming in, it's just how they utilize it.
ie not running a 3 guard rotation... the Thomas,Thorton,Evans trio was mind boggling to watch.

As for the Rubio/Love duo comparison.. Rubio is a true point guard and Love's game is much more rounded, they will always be the better pair based on IQ alone.

KingsMadness44
06-19-2012, 11:09 AM
^^ more like painful for us Kings fans!

Hawkeye15
06-19-2012, 11:10 AM
No they will not be better then Love/Rubio. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Evans is in another uniform in the not too distant future. His shot is horrid, he knows it, so he needs the ball in his hands to be able to attack. DMC has the physical tools to be as good as his brain will allow him to be, whatever that is.

Some on the Wolves board have said go hard for Tyreke. Pairing him with Rubio would easily give us the worst jump shooting backcourt in history haha.

b@llhog24
06-19-2012, 11:15 AM
The have more talent than Love and Rubio, doubt they'll ever really put it all together though.

Da Knicks
06-19-2012, 11:18 AM
I like both players but i just done think they are good combo, Tyreke is more like a Lebron type player and Dmc needs the ball too. Tyreke will be in another uniform unless Dmc pulls another stunt and he gets shipped out. Out of the two I like Dmc better as a player but he is a nutcase and lets his emotions get the best of him.

Hawkeye15
06-19-2012, 11:18 AM
The have more talent than Love and Rubio, doubt they'll ever really put it all together though.

How do you figure they have more talent? Running faster and jumping higher doesn't mean you have more basketball talent.

D12 fan
06-19-2012, 11:22 AM
No,because they don't fit.

Sac should trade Tyreke for a pg of sf,and build around Cousins.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
06-19-2012, 11:25 AM
no

thenaj17
06-19-2012, 11:30 AM
I like both a lot but Evans has to be played at PG. He excelled in his rookie season with historical stats. Obviously stats don't mean everything but if he improves his jumper, which is realistic when you look at Tony Parker, Chris Paul and Rajon Rondo (who have all improved since coming into the league) then he could be a good triple threat. I just don't understand how Tyreke could possibly be traded/unmatched at all, players don't get bad overnight, Westphal has been using him poorly.

Cousins isn't that bad at shooting, especially for a centre. I expect him to step it up next season and be a consistent 20-10 player.

thenaj17
06-19-2012, 11:36 AM
I like both players but i just done think they are good combo, Tyreke is more like a Lebron type player and Dmc needs the ball too. Tyreke will be in another uniform unless Dmc pulls another stunt and he gets shipped out. Out of the two I like Dmc better as a player but he is a nutcase and lets his emotions get the best of him.

Just because 2 players both need the ball, doesn't mean it won't work. The best inside-outside duo ever were ball dominant players and won 3 titles in a row together. It hasn't worked this year for Kings as Evans has played some SG and mainly SF. With better players around them, better outside shooting with those 2, they could both shine.

b@llhog24
06-19-2012, 11:39 AM
How do you figure they have more talent? Running faster and jumping higher doesn't mean you have more basketball talent.

I'm basing it off of the ceilings. IMO Rubio's best case scenario would be Jason Kidd, while love could be (its really hard to make a legit comparison for love seeing as he's so unique) but basically Dirk like in impact. Reke has been compared to Dwade and Cousins has the potential to be Chris Webber-esque type of impact, (the passing ability, soft hands, footwork's and rebounding is all there.)

Dwade>Jason Kidd
Dirk>=Webber.

KingPosey
06-19-2012, 11:40 AM
Tyreke has really disappointed me with his lack of growth. He has sooooo much potential but he is about to become another "what could have been". He doesnt seem to care about his weaknesses, if he even worked on a 10ft jumper he would go next level.

DMC is a baby, but he plays HARD, and really wants to win.

Hawkeye15
06-19-2012, 11:49 AM
I'm basing it off of the ceilings. IMO Rubio's best case scenario would be Jason Kidd, while love could be (its really hard to make a legit comparison for love seeing as he's so unique) but basically Dirk like in impact. Reke has been compared to Dwade and Cousins has the potential to be Chris Webber-esque type of impact, (the passing ability, soft hands, footwork's and rebounding is all there.)

Dwade>Jason Kidd
Dirk>=Webber.

You are basing them off comparisons you have come up with? How about evaluating their talent, breaking it down?

knickfan33
06-19-2012, 11:53 AM
someone said they have more talent then love and rubio? lol... love is better then both of them combined

b@llhog24
06-19-2012, 12:29 PM
You are basing them off comparisons you have come up with? How about evaluating their talent, breaking it down?

Rubio:

I haven't watched enough Rubio games to make a concrete validation of his skills but in the few games I watch he's a gifted passer, as a rookie he's a pretty good defender, he has an uncanny ability to get steals while not playing too far off of his own man. He really does hit his team-mates in his sweet spots as well. His shot has a pretty decent form, but the results remain inconsistent. His inefficient scoring worries me but its not as is he takes a lot outside of the offense in any event (or at least it seems that way from the few games I've watched). I also like the poise he displayed in games down the stretch. Honestly I don't have a lot of problems with Rubio except his turnovers and his ability to put points on the board efficiently.

Tyreke: Can get to the rim at will, (didn't he lead the Nba at shots at the rim in his rookie season?) is a very capable ball-handler, has the size and a 6'11 wing-span that allows him to defend multiple positions, he's not supremely effective while doing so (I think Rubio's the better defender) but at least he's versatile enough to cover multiple positions and its not like when healthy he's a liability in anyways. Honestly he showed me more in his rookie season than Rubio did at any point during his campaign. He has legit "franchise player" potential imo, but for all of Rubio's shot woes, Tyreke's shot is ****ing hideous. :puke: Aside from health and finding out which position he should play that's the only think holding him back from being a top 20 player.

Love: Love really doesn't need much evaluation, great shooter, rebounder (I am a believer in the diminishing returns theory however), gets to the foul-line and converts when he does get there. He's a decent defender although his athletic limitations prevent him from being a great one, I honestly can't see him getting THAT much better than he is now, which is a No 2 option , Maybe a number one depending on how stacked the team is on a championship contender.

Cousins: Has made great strides this season, he's playing more controlled and is keeping his emotions in check compared to last season, (no more fighting team-mates), hustles, he's a BEAST on the offensive boards which somewhat offsets his inefficient scoring. He has all the physical tools really, the soft hands which allow him to catch almost any pass (look at Isiah Thomas's insane pick and roll numbers), he's very skilled on the block having a variety of post moves to score and the passing game to compliment it, I'm sure he gets a ton of hockey assists. Basically it comes down to this for me, both Cousins and Tyreke in my view can be franchise players, while out of Rubio and Love only Love fits the bill. As it stands now they compliment each other better and get the most out of their abilities based on the current stage they are at in their careers. I honestly don't think both Tyreke and Cousins will reach their individual apexes together though.

Sidenote:I didn't personally come up with the comparisons, I just agree with them

tapajafri
06-19-2012, 03:15 PM
I'm basing it off of the ceilings. IMO Rubio's best case scenario would be Jason Kidd, while love could be (its really hard to make a legit comparison for love seeing as he's so unique) but basically Dirk like in impact. Reke has been compared to Dwade and Cousins has the potential to be Chris Webber-esque type of impact, (the passing ability, soft hands, footwork's and rebounding is all there.)

Dwade>Jason Kidd
Dirk>=Webber.

ehhhh kinda hard to compare dirk and webber, the two are almost completely different players. but if i had to pick one to build a team around, i'd pick c-webb over dirk. (in their primes of course)

Rockice_8
06-19-2012, 03:26 PM
No. Both can't shoot for ****.

I think this pretty much sums it up. Neither one are very good, they have decent numbers on poor efficiency. That is not the makings of a good duo.

I'd take so many other PG/C duo's over them

Lin/Chandler
Irving/Varejao
D-Will/Lopez
CP3/Jordan
Rose/Noah
Curry/Bogut (if they ever get healthy)
Rondo/KG
Conley/Gasol
Parker/Duncan

Must I keep going

Teague/Horford
Nelson/Dwight
Wall/Nene

I mean that's practically every team

Kashmir13579
06-19-2012, 03:27 PM
No they will not be better then Love/Rubio. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Evans is in another uniform in the not too distant future. His shot is horrid, he knows it, so he needs the ball in his hands to be able to attack. DMC has the physical tools to be as good as his brain will allow him to be, whatever that is.

Some on the Wolves board have said go hard for Tyreke. Pairing him with Rubio would easily give us the worst jump shooting backcourt in history haha.

Well said.

HouRealCoach
06-19-2012, 04:05 PM
They just need the right coach to get them right

Meaze_Gibson
06-19-2012, 04:09 PM
i think they could. Tyreke is a walking mismatch at pg when healthy. He also has potential to be an elite defender with his wingspan, quick hands, and defensive ability especially on pick and roll. Despite popular opinion, he has improved his passing abilities each year. Dude just needs a J lol.

Demarcus has touch, can rebound, good motor, and is already a good ballhandler and passer for his position. can also knock down midrange. Both are mismatches for their position and if coached correctly could be dangerous.

Hawkeye15
06-19-2012, 04:10 PM
i think they could. Tyreke is a walking mismatch at pg when healthy. He also has potential to be an elite defender with his wingspan, quick hands, and defensive ability especially on pick and roll. Despite popular opinion, he has improved his passing abilities each year. Dude just needs a J lol.

Demarcus has touch, can rebound, good motor, and is already a good ballhandler and passer for his position. can also knock down midrange. Both are mismatches for their position and if coached correctly could be dangerous.

Do you think they can potentially be better than Love/Rubio when they are at their best as well?

Hawkeye15
06-19-2012, 04:12 PM
that is why I think the Love/Rubio thing is dumb. Love is 23, has improved every year, and is already far better than Cousins is, while Rubio was a rookie, and showed a ton of promise. Reke has 3 years under his belt, regressed every year (injuries last year), and Cousins has the "crazy" thing going.

Love/Rubio will be better then they are now in 3 years.

PleaseBeNice
06-19-2012, 04:17 PM
I am dumbfounded as to how people continue to claim Cousins is dumb and immature.

HouRealCoach
06-19-2012, 04:23 PM
Cousins finished the season with monster stats... I think he will average 23, 13 this year, as for evans I hope he can stay in shape & hopefully tyreke doesnt get shoved behind thomas & thornton this year

I thought that Nate McMillan would be the best option for the two

RLundi
06-19-2012, 04:40 PM
I am dumbfounded as to how people continue to claim Cousins is dumb and immature.

Do you have cable?

Cousins is going to be an absolute stud though, if he ever matures. He's already one of the NBA's top 7 or 8 PF and he's only 21. Many knock him for being a knucklehead but throughout all his stupid play and attitude, he quietly is in the top 20 in PER. Give this guy a few seasons, we're gonna be talking about him, Love, Griffin and Monroe as the elite PF in the game.

And I don't know why people knock Tyreke so much. He had a stellar rookie year and has battled injuries and a position-change the past couple of seasons. I think with the right coach and team, Evans could be a Westbrook-type player. Westbrook's first couple seasons weren't stellar either (in fact they are similar to Evans') but he improved his jump-shooting to go with that relentless ability to attack the rim. I absolutely think Evans can follow suit.

As for which duo will be better, I think it'll be Love and Rubio. In 3 seasons I'll still give the slight edge to Love over Cousins but I think Evans will be better than Rubio. Rubio's a great passer and he has a knack for getting into passing lanes and coming up with steals, but he's an even worse jump shooter than Evans (hard to do) and I think Evans' scoring ability and insistence on getting to the basket will make him and Cousins unstoppable. But the fact that Rubio is a willing and eager passer and seems content to defer to others, including to the best PF in the game, will make the Wolves top-tier for years to come. But the Kings might not be far behind.

Catfish1314
06-19-2012, 04:49 PM
No they will not be better then Love/Rubio. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Evans is in another uniform in the not too distant future. His shot is horrid, he knows it, so he needs the ball in his hands to be able to attack. DMC has the physical tools to be as good as his brain will allow him to be, whatever that is.

Some on the Wolves board have said go hard for Tyreke. Pairing him with Rubio would easily give us the worst jump shooting backcourt in history haha.

You say that like Evans will never improve his shot. He won't be Ray Allen and the improvements he's made in the last three years have been minimal at best, but he's still only 22 years old. His shooting stroke and the other flawed mechanics of his game can be corrected.

And the bold is an absolute prediction, which is silly. You have no idea. Crazy things happen in this sport all the time.


How do you figure they have more talent? Running faster and jumping higher doesn't mean you have more basketball talent.

Talent is inheritent, or God-given, or something you just have. Cousins and Evans have more of that than Love and Rubio. That doesn't mean they are or ever will be a better duo. But they're better athletes with better size.

To respond to the point of the thread, they can be a dynamic duo. I don't think they will because I think the Kings front office is close to calling the Evans project. I don't agree with it, but he could very well be moved before next year's trade deadline especially if his game hasn't improved. Injuries and instability to the roster and the coaching staff have hindered his development, but he's still an extremely talented player.

Cousins is a freak. His efficiency improved from his rookie year (still awful for a center but it's a step forward), he cut down on his turnovers, took better shots (more than doubled his attempts at the rim from his rookie season), and physically there's not another player in the league like him. He's as immovable as Elton Brand but three inches taller and with a much softer touch around the basket.

To summarize, if Cousins is prescribed the proper dosage of crazy pills and cuts down on his fouls and if Evans can work any semblance of range into his game, then yes they can be dynamic.

Hawkeye15
06-19-2012, 04:55 PM
I am dumbfounded as to how people continue to claim Cousins is dumb and immature.

I don't think he is dumb at all. But sorry dude, until he sustains an extended period of time without doing and saying stupid things from time to time, he will have the reputation of being sort of a knucklehead.

Hawkeye15
06-19-2012, 05:03 PM
You say that like Evans will never improve his shot. He won't be Ray Allen and the improvements he's made in the last three years have been minimal at best, but he's still only 22 years old. His shooting stroke and the other flawed mechanics of his game can be corrected.

And the bold is an absolute prediction, which is silly. You have no idea. Crazy things happen in this sport all the time.

Evans needs to completely break his form down and start over. I have seen nothing to show he will be a star caliber player since his very solid rookie year, he doesn't seem to have the mentality to be great.



Talent is inheritent, or God-given, or something you just have. Cousins and Evans have more of that than Love and Rubio. That doesn't mean they are or ever will be a better duo. But they're better athletes with better size.

Why? Love has a huge amount of talent. Haven't ever seen a big man who can shoot 3's and rebound like that. Or be in the right position at all times. I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but why is Cousins looked at as having more natural talent then Love? Is it the white player thing? I am asking. Because at every level, Love's "limitations" were supposed to hold him back. How is that working out? As far as Rubio, he has a gift that comes along only once in a while with his vision, he is very poised for his age, and showed he could be an all NBA defender throughout his career. Pretty talented kid.


To respond to the point of the thread, they can be a dynamic duo. I don't think they will because I think the Kings front office is close to calling the Evans project. I don't agree with it, but he could very well be moved before next year's trade deadline especially if his game hasn't improved. Injuries and instability to the roster and the coaching staff have hindered his development, but he's still an extremely talented player.

My first post alluded to Evans being moved down the line, I agree.


Cousins is a freak. His efficiency improved from his rookie year (still awful for a center but it's a step forward), he cut down on his turnovers, took better shots (more than doubled his attempts at the rim from his rookie season), and physically there's not another player in the league like him. He's as immovable as Elton Brand but three inches taller and with a much softer touch around the basket.

There isn't another player like Love in history....His overall game is creeping into top 3-4 MVP voting on a regular basis. Cousins is nowhere close to that, and barely younger.


To summarize, if Cousins is prescribed the proper dosage of crazy pills and cuts down on his fouls and if Evans can work any semblance of range into his game, then yes they can be dynamic.

Like I said previously, I too think if given time and the right scenario, Cousins/Evans could be a nice duo. But I also question bringing up the Love/Rubio bit, because currently Love is far superior to any of them, and Rubio showed huge promise with the same weakness that Reke has, but with a known work ethic and winning background.

Fresno
06-19-2012, 05:10 PM
Yes.

Both guys still have work to do in improving their games.

Cousins needs to learn how to be a better low post defender & Evans needs to learn how to be a better player off the ball.

Fresno
06-19-2012, 05:15 PM
Tyreke has really disappointed me with his lack of growth. He has sooooo much potential but he is about to become another "what could have been". He doesnt seem to care about his weaknesses, if he even worked on a 10ft jumper he would go next level.

DMC is a baby, but he plays HARD, and really wants to win.

His brothers hired him a shooting coach this offseason.

Its not that he never worked on his jumpshot, its just that he never learned how to take jumpshots without having the ball in his hands to take pull-up jumpers. He's always had the ball in his hands and his jumpshot is kind of ugly because everytime he's shot the ball has been with a man in his face.

Right now hes in Sacramento working with a shooting coach & trainers so he can make a transition into playing more off the ball next season as a SG/SF.

Fresno
06-19-2012, 05:17 PM
Evans needs to completely break his form down and start over. I have seen nothing to show he will be a star caliber player since his very solid rookie year, he doesn't seem to have the mentality to be great.




Why? Love has a huge amount of talent. Haven't ever seen a big man who can shoot 3's and rebound like that. Or be in the right position at all times. I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but why is Cousins looked at as having more natural talent then Love? Is it the white player thing? I am asking. Because at every level, Love's "limitations" were supposed to hold him back. How is that working out? As far as Rubio, he has a gift that comes along only once in a while with his vision, he is very poised for his age, and showed he could be an all NBA defender throughout his career. Pretty talented kid.



My first post alluded to Evans being moved down the line, I agree.



There isn't another player like Love in history....His overall game is creeping into top 3-4 MVP voting on a regular basis. Cousins is nowhere close to that, and barely younger.



Like I said previously, I too think if given time and the right scenario, Cousins/Evans could be a nice duo. But I also question bringing up the Love/Rubio bit, because currently Love is far superior to any of them, and Rubio showed huge promise with the same weakness that Reke has, but with a known work ethic and winning background.

You haven't mentioned or alluded to the fact Rubio is already athletically compromised for the PG position and is coming off of a torn ACL.

I think its a very real question about the future of Rubio/Love.

Rubio showed surprisingly good lateral agility on defense, but I'm very concerned that he may return and not be as good staying in front of his man.

Hawkeye15
06-19-2012, 05:19 PM
You haven't mentioned or alluded to the fact Rubio is already athletically compromised for the PG position and is coming off of a torn ACL.

I think its a very real question about the future of Rubio/Love.

Rubio showed surprisingly good lateral agility on defense, but I'm very concerned that he may return and not be as good staying in front of his man.

21 years old, in modern medicine. I am running off the strong assumption he will be completely fine.

Kashmir13579
06-19-2012, 05:23 PM
I honestly don't see how anybody would take either player over Love and Rubio. Kevin love is already elite and is still improving. He also isn't a complete imbecile like DMC.

Tyreke is a definition tweener (the bad kind) who has shown no reason for anyone to believe he will be dramatically better in a few seasons. Rubio is the purest of PGs (which if you hadn't noticed are very hard to come by) and his defense is already quite good. Tyrekes are really a dime a dozen.. Every draft class has that freakishly athletic combo guard who likely won't hack it as a stud. Dion Waiters is this years.

DerekRE_3
06-19-2012, 05:24 PM
It's not the system/coach that is holding Tyreke back. It's his shot, which if anything has gotten worse. It's either mental or a lack of work ethic. I think it's both.

Keith Smart has been great for Boogie. There's no question he that he has the talent and passion for the game to be great.

DerekRE_3
06-19-2012, 05:25 PM
Yes.

Both guys still have work to do in improving their games.

Cousins needs to learn how to be a better low post defender & Evans needs to learn how to be a better player off the ball.

Cousins grades out well in post defense on synergy actually and passes the eyeball test. He doesn't block a lot of shots but he uses his size/length well. He needs work on defending the pick and roll.

The entire team besides Isaiah Thomas needs to vastly improve on their pick and roll defense actually.

Meaze_Gibson
06-19-2012, 05:27 PM
Do you think they can potentially be better than Love/Rubio when they are at their best as well?

From the glimpse that I saw of Rubio this season I will say yes. At Best Evans is an elite defender able to defend both guard positions well, possibly even small forwards too. At best he would be a pg who puts others in foul trouble with his insistence on goin to the basket. At best he would exploit those smaller at the pg position. Rubio imo is Jason Kidd/Rondo. But with these new breed of pgs i'm not convinced how effective he would be stopping them from scoring and putting pressure on them in key moments to score.

Love, at his best is a one in a generational player if his on ball defensive and isolation moves continue to increase. But I'm just not convinced Rubio has more potential than Tyreke yet

Fresno
06-19-2012, 05:33 PM
I honestly don't see how anybody would take either player over Love and Rubio. Kevin love is already elite and is still improving. He also isn't a complete imbecile like DMC.

Tyreke is a definition tweener (the bad kind) who has shown no reason for anyone to believe he will be dramatically better in a few seasons. Rubio is the purest of PGs (which if you hadn't noticed are very hard to come by) and his defense is already quite good. Tyrekes are really a dime a dozen.. Every draft class has that freakishly athletic combo guard who likely won't hack it as a stud. Dion Waiters is this years.

Tyreke isn't really a tweener.

He's a SF who's been thrown into the PG position where he doesn't have as good of a feel for setting up teammates to run an offense, but definetly good enough to be a #2 ballhandler for a team. Its almost as if the Celtics decided to start Paul Pierce at PG instead of a Rondo. The Kings finally realized he'd be at best playing at SG or SF and working on fundementals to be a better scorer than just slashing to the basket.

By the way Tyreke isn't some freakishly athletic player. He's just freakishly big & strong to be as great of a ballhandler as he is.

Fresno
06-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Cousins grades out well in post defense on synergy actually and passes the eyeball test. He doesn't block a lot of shots but he uses his size/length well. He needs work on defending the pick and roll.

The entire team besides Isaiah Thomas needs to vastly improve on their pick and roll defense actually.

When you're playing C and your post defense gives up as much points as the Kings did last season then you need to improve defensively.

I agree he doesn't really need to be a shot blocker, but he needs to be far better when it comes to changing shots because that will cut down on the amount of fouls he ends up picking up. There were a lot of times last season where he should've tried to challenge a shot and ended up just trying to draw an offensive foul instead.

Basically, Cousins needs to use his body more on guys. He's 280+ and strong so he should be more physical on anybody who wants to get a basket so they have second thoughts about driving to the rim. They would know he would put them on their *** if they go up for a layup or dunk.

Hawkeye15
06-19-2012, 05:46 PM
From the glimpse that I saw of Rubio this season I will say yes. At Best Evans is an elite defender able to defend both guard positions well, possibly even small forwards too. At best he would be a pg who puts others in foul trouble with his insistence on goin to the basket. At best he would exploit those smaller at the pg position. Rubio imo is Jason Kidd/Rondo. But with these new breed of pgs i'm not convinced how effective he would be stopping them from scoring and putting pressure on them in key moments to score.

Love, at his best is a one in a generational player if his on ball defensive and isolation moves continue to increase. But I'm just not convinced Rubio has more potential than Tyreke yet

While I would never evaluate after one game, Rubio guarded Evans the first time we played him this year, and shut him down basically. Didn't let him get in the paint, and had numerous deflections. Rubio will be a much better defender than Evans if his knee is 100%, I don't think many of you watched Rubio, and then tracked our team metrics on that side when he went down.

Rubio doesn't need more potential per say (though basically, if Rubio becomes average at scoring, he moves into top 5 PG in a couple of years, big if though), he is already ELITE in the passing game, has perfect timing, poise, and is a big time defender.

Love>Cousins, and I don't see that changing.

SteveNash
06-19-2012, 05:47 PM
Love/Rubio is considered a dynamic duo now? :laugh:

They've already passed that low bar. But they'll never be anything special.

Hawkeye15
06-19-2012, 05:48 PM
It's apparent most of you didn't watch much of Rubio this season. Love needs no explanation. I will leave it at that. I agree, Evans/Cousins could be a nice duo. I can virtually guarantee if you poll GM's and coaches which duo they would rather have going forward, Love/Rubio win in a landslide.

Hawkeye15
06-19-2012, 05:48 PM
Love/Rubio is considered a dynamic duo now? :laugh:

They've already passed that low bar. But they'll never be anything special.

Where did anyone say that?

Fresno
06-19-2012, 05:51 PM
It's not the system/coach that is holding Tyreke back. It's his shot, which if anything has gotten worse. It's either mental or a lack of work ethic. I think it's both.

Keith Smart has been great for Boogie. There's no question he that he has the talent and passion for the game to be great.

Tyreke's jumpshot isn't anything mental or work ethic related. As another Kings fan, I thought you would know that he lives with his personal trainer Lamont Peterson. His work ethic is unquestionable because he has people in his life who are focused on him being successful on the basketball court and have been there since he was like 12 or 13 years old.

The problem has been their ideology in that Tyreke is better as a Point Guard, which is a "dream" they sold to Kings management for the last few years. They are the ones who were originally upset with Tyreke being moved off the ball and brought in his agent to discuss what was going on.

Now everybody seems to be on the same page that Tyreke needs to work on catching & shooting the ball if he is going to remain a Sacramento King. The Kings will give him the extension he is looking for if he makes those adjustments this offseason, and it also could allow him to go to the next level as a player.

BALKIS2K12
06-19-2012, 05:51 PM
i already saw enough of cousins to know this guy is gonna be owning the nba at center like shaq did real soon. thats why i hope we grab fab melo.

i think having a big-man on your roster can take you a very far way. kings will be contenders real soon.

Blazers#1Fan
06-19-2012, 05:52 PM
Reke just had a down year cousins is a Monster top 5 center

they need to sign Beasley and draft barnes they'd be a force

DMC/Okafor
Beasley/Thompson
Barnes/Ariza
Evans/Williams
Thomas/Fredette

they should try to trade Thorton,Salmons,Outlaw for okafor & Ariza

thats a mean young line up i think they would make the playoffs easily every year with this core Barnes-DMC-Evans-Beasley-Thomas add those vets Okafor and ariza(who the hornets are trying to get rid of) and you have a beast team in sac

Fresno
06-19-2012, 06:04 PM
Rubio will be a much better defender than Evans if his knee is 100%, I don't think many of you watched Rubio, and then tracked our team metrics on that side when he went down.

I completely disagree here.

While Rubio has a better reputation as a defender in Europe, Tyreke has shown the ability to defend all 3 perimeter positions in the NBA.

You're underrating versatility here with that statement and insinuating Tyreke is somehow a bad defender. I think both will be good defenders in time if Rubio does stay healthy, but not going to go out on the limb that Rubio is going to be "much better" than Evans.



Love>Cousins, and I don't see that changing.

I also disagree here.

If Cousins is showing the trajectory of improvement that he had between his rookie season to 2nd NBA season, then he's going to be a better player than Love at the rate he's going. Kevin Love didn't really become a stud until his 3rd year, while Cousins avoided any possible "Sophmore slump" and showed All Star potential at Center.

A lot of people would take a talented Center over a volume scoring Power Forward.

b@llhog24
06-19-2012, 06:09 PM
It's apparent most of you didn't watch much of Rubio this season. Love needs no explanation. I will leave it at that. I agree, Evans/Cousins could be a nice duo. I can virtually guarantee if you poll GM's and coaches which duo they would rather have going forward, Love/Rubio win in a landslide.

If they didn't know what they know now, and this was a draft you honestly think they'd draft Love over Cousins? (Reke was already drafted over Rubio so we know how that went).

DerekRE_3
06-19-2012, 06:10 PM
Tyreke's jumpshot isn't anything mental or work ethic related. As another Kings fan, I thought you would know that he lives with his personal trainer Lamont Peterson. His work ethic is unquestionable because he has people in his life who are focused on him being successful on the basketball court and have been there since he was like 12 or 13 years old.

The problem has been their ideology in that Tyreke is better as a Point Guard, which is a "dream" they sold to Kings management for the last few years. They are the ones who were originally upset with Tyreke being moved off the ball and brought in his agent to discuss what was going on.

Now everybody seems to be on the same page that Tyreke needs to work on catching & shooting the ball if he is going to remain a Sacramento King. The Kings will give him the extension he is looking for if he makes those adjustments this offseason, and it also could allow him to go to the next level as a player.

I know all about his Team Tyreke setup and "Team Blueprint." If it isn't his work ethic or a mental issue then I'd really question the guys who are training him.

He's needed to add a floater to his game since his rookie year. It's been two years since then. He has no in between game or mid range game. It's just layups. He gets called for so many charges because he has to get right to the rim to score and cannot pull up to save his life so he can avoid the charge.

His shooting percentages last year:
3-9 feet: 26%
10-15 feet: 23.5%
16-23 feet: 30%
3 pointers: 20%

That's apocalyptic. Atrocious. Mind bogglingly bad.

So if it isn't a confidence issue and he works as hard as you say he does, then I guess he just has no chance to ever learn anything shooting related besides a layup. In that case, he's a 6th man for the rest of his career who can come in with bench guys and dominate the ball.

As far as his defense goes, he can be really good. When he wants to be. He has been so piss poor at defending the pick and roll since he came into the league, and it's such a huge part of the NBA game today. It's like he thinks you aren't allowed to fight through a screen.

Hawkeye15
06-19-2012, 07:23 PM
I completely disagree here.

While Rubio has a better reputation as a defender in Europe, Tyreke has shown the ability to defend all 3 perimeter positions in the NBA.

You're underrating versatility here with that statement and insinuating Tyreke is somehow a bad defender. I think both will be good defenders in time if Rubio does stay healthy, but not going to go out on the limb that Rubio is going to be "much better" than Evans.




I also disagree here.

If Cousins is showing the trajectory of improvement that he had between his rookie season to 2nd NBA season, then he's going to be a better player than Love at the rate he's going. Kevin Love didn't really become a stud until his 3rd year, while Cousins avoided any possible "Sophmore slump" and showed All Star potential at Center.

A lot of people would take a talented Center over a volume scoring Power Forward.

Rubio was a much better defender in his first year than Reke has been in 3. Fact.

So you think Cousins is going to be a top 5-7 player, where we know Love will be (if he isn't already). Good luck with that prediction.

I apologize for my short answers, I just honestly could care less to continue to argue this.

Hawkeye15
06-19-2012, 07:25 PM
If they didn't know what they know now, and this was a draft you honestly think they'd draft Love over Cousins? (Reke was already drafted over Rubio so we know how that went).

nope, because Love was the big slow white guy, remember?

Like I said, every single level Love gets to, all anyone has talked about were his limits. Yet he won High School player of the year, Pac-10 player/freshman of the year, and just got some MVP votes.

If you ask GM's/coaches right now, going forward, which duo they take, I stand by my prediction. Love/Rubio in a landslide.

Kashmir13579
06-19-2012, 08:09 PM
Tyreke isn't really a tweener.

He's a SF who's been thrown into the PG position where he doesn't have as good of a feel for setting up teammates to run an offense, but definetly good enough to be a #2 ballhandler for a team. Its almost as if the Celtics decided to start Paul Pierce at PG instead of a Rondo. The Kings finally realized he'd be at best playing at SG or SF and working on fundementals to be a better scorer than just slashing to the basket.

Did anyone have him as a SF coming out of college? Or even his rookie year? Or are we now calling him a SF because he can't hack it as a guard?


By the way Tyreke isn't some freakishly athletic player. He's just freakishly big & strong to be as great of a ballhandler as he is.

I wasn't talking about his standing vertical.

Catfish1314
06-19-2012, 09:04 PM
Evans needs to completely break his form down and start over. I have seen nothing to show he will be a star caliber player since his very solid rookie year, he doesn't seem to have the mentality to be great.

I don't know much about his mentality other than he's as tough as they come (or maybe as stupid) to have played through plantar fasciitis for as long as he did. He's aware his shot is an issue and he's reportedly putting in the work to improve it, but I'll be satisfied when I see the results on the court.

I also don't disagree about breaking down his form, although that's difficult to do at his age. But the results of the mechanics he's using now are so piss poor, there's no point in continuing it.


Why? Love has a huge amount of talent. Haven't ever seen a big man who can shoot 3's and rebound like that. Or be in the right position at all times. I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but why is Cousins looked at as having more natural talent then Love? Is it the white player thing? I am asking. Because at every level, Love's "limitations" were supposed to hold him back. How is that working out? As far as Rubio, he has a gift that comes along only once in a while with his vision, he is very poised for his age, and showed he could be an all NBA defender throughout his career. Pretty talented kid.

Cousins has a very, very rare combination of physical blessings. He's a legitimate 6'11 and 280 but remains incredibly coordinated and graceful. He has a ridiculous frame that only Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum could currently rival, but Cousins has far more offensive potential than either of them ever had. Those are also the only two players in the league who occupy as much space in the paint as Cousins does.

The majority of the games he plays in, he's the strongest player on the court and that has far more to do with his frame than the time he spends in the weight room. He's naturally a beast and when he figures out how to use his body, he's going to be hell to deal with.

My argument that Love/Rubio don't have to be guaranteed better than Cousins/Evans long-term has far more to do with giving Cousins the acknowledgement that few people do than it does robbing Love and Rubio of what they've accomplished. Love has demolished every expectation I ever had of him from the day he came into the league.

To be fair though, while Cousins is only a year younger than Love, Kevin has four years of experience under his belt. Cousins has two. Love broke out and took the next step in his third season. Cousins is the only person who can stop Cousins from doing the same thing.


Like I said previously, I too think if given time and the right scenario, Cousins/Evans could be a nice duo. But I also question bringing up the Love/Rubio bit, because currently Love is far superior to any of them, and Rubio showed huge promise with the same weakness that Reke has, but with a known work ethic and winning background.

Again, that's currently. Love has four years of experience to Cousins's two. Just as Evans has three years of experience to Rubio's one. All four players are still very young. It's silly to deal in absolutes on the subject of hungry young NBA players.

Fresno
06-19-2012, 09:52 PM
Rubio was a much better defender in his first year than Reke has been in 3. Fact.
Based on what metric?


So you think Cousins is going to be a top 5-7 player, where we know Love will be (if he isn't already). Good luck with that prediction.
Love isn't even a Top 10 player in the NBA.

Top 5-7? I never said either player would be that highly ranked.

Im simply saying that a Center with the offensive ability of a DeMarcus Cousins along with his rebounding & soon to be improved defense is far more valuable than a volume scoring Power Forward.

Since we're basing everything off of personal opinions if you asked GM's who they would rather build a NBA team around for the future, they're taking a talented Center over a 6'9 Power Forward who plays 1 end of the floor.

M.Bibby2.0
06-20-2012, 12:49 AM
Love & Rubio > Cousins and Reke

But that's because they are a much better fit together. Individually Cousins and Reke COULD surpass the other two but in Reke's case its doubtful I think he lacks the BBIQ. The comparison is kind of stupid anyways since they are way different players at different positions.

I have to disagree with Hawkeye about DMC not being able to surpass Love. Cousins has shown tremendous growth, rebounds better than love (per minute played) and leads the league in charges drawn (frankly, an underrated stat). IMO a charge >> block since it leads to a guaranteed possession. Furthermore Cousins gets more blocks and steals in less minutes played and to my knowledge has never missed a game due to injury.

and finally Cousins is 21 and coming off of a 18 & 11 season (in 30 mpg) to write him off as unable to surpass love is completely laughable, its way too early to tell.

IversonIsKrazy
06-20-2012, 01:15 AM
'Reke needs better worth ethic. A shot can always be improved. With the right coaching and motivation, I still think this duo can work. Move 'Reke back at point, and if he works on his shot, while DMC realizes what a "team" is, it can really work. Hopefully both get it together, then come to VanCity, and start a great duo :)

Fresno
06-20-2012, 01:37 AM
'Reke needs better worth ethic. A shot can always be improved. With the right coaching and motivation, I still think this duo can work. Move 'Reke back at point, and if he works on his shot, while DMC realizes what a "team" is, it can really work. Hopefully both get it together, then come to VanCity, and start a great duo :)

While Tyreke certainly has the ballhandling ability to play PG, he just simply lacks the natural feel to create for his teammates that most Point Guards have.

The duo can work.

They do have good chemistry and I really want to see far more Pick & Roll action between the two of them.