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View Full Version : James Harden could be available THIS summer?



MagicBucsSox
06-14-2012, 02:44 PM
The Charlotte Bobcats are eyeing the possibility of dealing the No. 2 overall pick in a trade that would bring a more established player, multiple sources told CBSSports.com.

Rod Higgins and Rich Cho understand that the Bobcats need more than just a talented rookie, whether it be Bradley Beal, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Harrison Barnes, Thomas Robinson or even Andre Drummond -- to make the Bobcats competitive from their laughingstock of a season.

One source said that Oklahoma City's James Harden could be in play due to the Thunder's salary situation following next season. GM Sam Presti already has Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook on the books for more than $29 million next season -- and both Harden and Serge Ibaka will command huge contracts after the 2012-13 campaign.

Charlotte was an NBA-worst 7-59 this past season and there is no clear-cut second overall pick behind Anthony Davis, who will be taken by New Orleans with the No. 1 selection on June 28.

Beal and Barnes can both help Charlotte on the offensive end while Kidd-Gilchrist and Robinson would bring a toughness, especially on the defensive end. Drummond is a high-risk choice despite his physical tools.

None of these players is considered a franchise-changer -- and that's why the Bobcats would prefer to deal the pick and land an established player such as Harden who could come in immediately and make an impact.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19352135/charlotte-looking-to-deal-no-2-pick

mikekhelxD
06-14-2012, 02:46 PM
If they have already decided to invest on Ibaka than Harden, definitely do this trade.

Baller1
06-14-2012, 02:47 PM
Presti isn't stupid enough do this.

310Casper
06-14-2012, 02:50 PM
Presti isn't stupid enough do this.

So he should just let Harden walk away and get a max somewhere else for nothing?

If the #2 pick is available for a guy that'll be gone soon, you take it. No questions asked.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-14-2012, 02:54 PM
If he wants to keep Ibaka, this can be a good deal for them. Beal can be a good scorer off the bench. Having MKG too would be cool but he's more suited at SF.

MagicBucsSox
06-14-2012, 02:57 PM
I believe Ibaka is more valuable than Harden. No way Harden would walk away from Mac money for the sake of "team".

Vinylman
06-14-2012, 03:01 PM
So he should just let Harden walk away and get a max somewhere else for nothing?

If the #2 pick is available for a guy that'll be gone soon, you take it. No questions asked.

He is and RFA after next year... how is that getting nothing?

They can either match a deal or do a S&T

justinnum1
06-14-2012, 03:01 PM
Presti isn't stupid enough do this.

when harden walks for nothing to get a max will he be stupid then?

Hawkeye15
06-14-2012, 03:02 PM
Seeing as it will be near impossible to keep the Durant-Westbrook-Harden-Ibaka core financially, this makes sense to some degree.

Though how sucky would it be for Harden to go from a title contender to a rebuilding team that is horrific.

Vinylman
06-14-2012, 03:03 PM
when harden walks for nothing to get a max will he be stupid then?

RFA's always walk for nothing :facepalm:

DerekRE_3
06-14-2012, 03:03 PM
Harden will get a max deal. If Presti knows the Thunder can't afford to give him that then he should start exploring his options after the Finals.

Eagles4Lyfe
06-14-2012, 03:04 PM
Ya Beal if he certainly is worth the hype can fill the Harden role.

Or the Thunder can draft Robinson to since none of their bigs have a post game and pair him with Ibaka and amnesty Perkins saving them money that route. Then sign Ray Allen for of the bench.

KingsOfQueens
06-14-2012, 03:06 PM
It makes sense from a financial and standpoint if they are committed to Ibaka...and Harden doesn't deserve a max deal, although he does deserve a very hefty payday.

Sucks that OKC just can't unload Perkins and keep both Ibaka and Harden.

KingsOfQueens
06-14-2012, 03:07 PM
Word..they should just amnesty Perkins and try to keep both Ibaka and Harden. Then got a center through the draft.

justinnum1
06-14-2012, 03:07 PM
RFA's always walk for nothing :facepalm:

He is not a RFA this year:facepalm:
thunder can either get something back now, or risk losing him for nothing in the future

Sinestro
06-14-2012, 03:11 PM
Makes sense...sucks they're gonna have to break up the team

black1605
06-14-2012, 03:15 PM
No reason for a team to trade for him if he's just going to be available as an RFA next year. If the Thunder can't afford him, then they can't afford him. Nothing is going to change in that regard between now and the next offseason.

Ebbs
06-14-2012, 03:21 PM
Honestly if the Thunder win this year I pull the trigger #2 + 2nd for Harden. You take Beal and hopefully don't skip a beat.

D12 fan
06-14-2012, 03:25 PM
The Thunder are not trading Harden,especially if they win the title.They should just let it play out and trust that he stays to win championships.

clydebino
06-14-2012, 03:27 PM
I think Harden stays in OKC. I think he will get a nice pay raise but not a max deal, and hopefully the same for Iblocka.

Lab Rat Robby
06-14-2012, 03:27 PM
do they really face that bad of a financial situation keeping everybody? the team is/will be making deep playoff runs consistently and is in the finals this year. revenue has to be pretty darn good based on ticket sales alone. i wonder if biting the bullet on salaries truly would put the team in the red all around. if it does i think #2 overall is absolutely worth harden. also harden would be disgusting as the man for the bobcats. they should change the team name to something that says jordan/ harden/ clutch. the buzzer beaters is cool cause it also has that buzzy bee hornet taste.

TheNumber37
06-14-2012, 03:27 PM
I don't see Harden going anywhere, especially if they win. And if he does go some where it won't be the bobcats. It would be on a team with Williams and Howard. Or Paul and Blake.

MagicBucsSox
06-14-2012, 03:29 PM
Lmao and why after the trade wouldhe extend in Charlotte?

Kobe2324
06-14-2012, 03:31 PM
tough situation for okc for sure, but in a league where bi men are rare, especially talented ones I would also lead towards keeping Ibaka, harden dosnt make much money now which make him hard to trade for another star that would have a much bigger salary, I think a #2 pick is actually a good deal considering the scenario...too bad westbrook ate up so much of the payroll because I would keep ibaka and harden over just westbrook....but either way this team is young and will compete for a title for many years to come

valade16
06-14-2012, 03:33 PM
I don't understand how financially it will be impossible to keep all 4. Can't teams go above the salary cap to resign their own players?

How much revenue would having a potential dynasty generate? I imagine more than enough to pay all 4...

TrueFan420
06-14-2012, 03:33 PM
So he should just let Harden walk away and get a max somewhere else for nothing?

If the #2 pick is available for a guy that'll be gone soon, you take it. No questions asked.

Ok but this article doesn't paint a picture of harden leaving soon it just says it will be hard to keep em all which we know but it's not impossible.

Vinylman
06-14-2012, 03:35 PM
Lmao and why after the trade wouldhe extend in Charlotte?

he would be forced to as a RFA

D12 fan
06-14-2012, 03:38 PM
Lmao and why after the trade wouldhe extend in Charlotte?

He would be a king in Charlotte,imagine him turning that franchise around.They never really had a face of the franchise since their Charlotte Hornet days with Alonzo and LJ.

*Doesn't hurt to have MJ as your owner,im sure he would give Harden a shoe deal with his shoe company.

MagicBucsSox
06-14-2012, 03:41 PM
He would be a king in Charlotte,imagine him turning that franchise around.They never really had a face of the franchise since their Charlotte Hornet days with Alonzo and LJ.

*Doesn't hurt to have MJ as your owner,im sure he would give Harden a shoe deal with his shoe company.

He can be king in 26 other cities with, good owners

clydebino
06-14-2012, 03:42 PM
he would be forced to as a RFA

I believe he could just sign the one year tender, he doesn't have to sign for a max contract

Carey
06-14-2012, 03:43 PM
Not happening...

Still think the likeliest option is they sign Harden and Ibaka to extensions this summer and then amnesty Perk after next season when the extension all start to kick in. If in negotiations either Harden or Ibaka's reps start asking for more then Presti deem's affordable for us then he'll let them play next season and do a sign and trade next summer to get veteran pieces that could still help the team contend.

I know money is money but this truly is a special situation to have a team this good with it's best 4 players years from their prime. Plus they are all humble gym rats that enjoy being around each other and understand they have the unique opportunity to contend for years to come.

Fresno
06-14-2012, 03:46 PM
I don't understand how financially it will be impossible to keep all 4. Can't teams go above the salary cap to resign their own players?

How much revenue would having a potential dynasty generate? I imagine more than enough to pay all 4...

Its not impossible. They just need to amnesty Perkins.

Durant makes $18 Million
Westbrook will make $14 Million

James Harden is not getting a Max offer of 4/$60 Million, I dont know what world some of you guys live in but under the new CBA rules there isn't a NBA team who will pay Harden that kind of money. That type of offer is only set for All Star players like Kevin Love, not a 6th Man like Harden.

justinnum1
06-14-2012, 03:48 PM
Its not impossible. They just need to amnesty Perkins.

Durant makes $18 Million
Westbrook will make $14 Million

James Harden is not getting a Max offer of 4/$60 Million, I dont know what world some of you guys live in but under the new CBA rules there isn't a NBA team who will pay Harden that kind of money. That type of offer is only set for All Star players like Kevin Love, not a 6th Man like Harden.

harden would be an all star if he was a #1 option imo

Raps18-19 Champ
06-14-2012, 03:48 PM
Its not impossible. They just need to amnesty Perkins.

Durant makes $18 Million
Westbrook will make $14 Million

James Harden is not getting a Max offer of 4/$60 Million, I dont know what world some of you guys live in but under the new CBA rules there isn't a NBA team who will pay Harden that kind of money. That type of offer is only set for All Star players like Kevin Love, not a 6th Man like Harden.

He will get that kind of money though. How do you think he'll feel knowing there's so much more people getting more money than him despite him being better.

Fresno
06-14-2012, 03:49 PM
Not happening...

Still think the likeliest option is they sign Harden and Ibaka to extensions this summer and then amnesty Perk after next season when the extension all start to kick in. If in negotiations either Harden or Ibaka's reps start asking for more then Presti deem's affordable for us then he'll let them play next season and do a sign and trade next summer to get veteran pieces that could still help the team contend.

I know money is money but this truly is a special situation to have a team this good with it's best 4 players years from their prime. Plus they are all humble gym rats that enjoy being around each other and understand they have the unique opportunity to contend for years to come.

Under the new CBA, you can not execute Sign & Trades with Restricted Free Agent's for players(only draft pick compensation & a Trade Exception).

You can only do Sign & Trades with Unrestricted Free Agents for players. Ex: Boston trading Big Baby to Orlando for Brandon Bass

Vinylman
06-14-2012, 03:52 PM
I don't understand how financially it will be impossible to keep all 4. Can't teams go above the salary cap to resign their own players?

How much revenue would having a potential dynasty generate? I imagine more than enough to pay all 4...

a finals run every year is worth multiple millions of $ in terms of the gate alone

the real issue for OKC is no TV revenue like other markets...

I can see him Maybe being traded next year if they feel he will not be reasonable on a contract but the other thing people are missing is that a max deal for a first time guy is alot less than say the guys in Miami...

Westbrooks deal next year starts at $12.9 million No way Harden starts higher than him

in the simplest terms they could have all 4 under contract in 2013/2014 for around $57-58 million all on pretty much max deals

Durant 17.8
Westy 13.9
Harden 13.0
Ibaka 13.0

Add in Sef/Perk/collison for $15 million there overall salaries would be around $80 million

The probably could suck that up for 2 years until perk comes off the books or just amnesty him...

the thing that helps OKC alot is if Ibaka and him sign for around $10 million per year during the offseason which i am sure is what Presti will be focused on ... not trading Harden... signing the extension early has alot of value to these guys because of the risk of injury and the money being guaranteed

pd1dish
06-14-2012, 03:54 PM
i think id do it if i were OKC because they could lose Harden in a year and with a #2 overall you get a starting caliber, young player who wont be demanding money for years.

but whats in it for the Bobcats? would Harden have to agree to sign an extension? if i were Harden and played there for a year, i would walk after that and enter FA. itd be a 1 year lease for a team who would be lucky to make an 8th seed.

Fresno
06-14-2012, 03:56 PM
He will get that kind of money though. How do you think he'll feel knowing there's so much more people getting more money than him despite him being better.

James Harden is not getting on average $15 Million per year.

The only comparable situation was Joe Johnson to Atlanta and that took 2 things to happen that don't exist under the new CBA.

1. Trading a RFA in a sign & trade for player compensation(Boris Diaw)

2. Frontloading a contract for a RFA to force a team from matching with Atlanta giving Johnson a balloon payment of $20 Million in Year 1.

A team will overpay Harden to the tune of 4/$48 Million, but definetly not Max level. Also, OKC holds the leverage in contract negotiations considering they can give Harden a 5th year on his deal while other teams can't.

Vinylman
06-14-2012, 03:56 PM
I believe he could just sign the one year tender, he doesn't have to sign for a max contract

theoretically true ... but show me 1 instance where a guy who gets a max contract on the open market signs the tender just to get out of a deal... especially when it is his first max deal....

one example would be shocking

Also, don't forget... he can't get max years signing with someone else

Vinylman
06-14-2012, 03:57 PM
Lol, what?

What the hell does this have to do with OKC's situation.

Get real. Stop trolling.

I was responding to the ultimate Miami troll... you might want to rethink your logic

Vinylman
06-14-2012, 03:58 PM
Not happening...

Still think the likeliest option is they sign Harden and Ibaka to extensions this summer and then amnesty Perk after next season when the extension all start to kick in. If in negotiations either Harden or Ibaka's reps start asking for more then Presti deem's affordable for us then he'll let them play next season and do a sign and trade next summer to get veteran pieces that could still help the team contend.

I know money is money but this truly is a special situation to have a team this good with it's best 4 players years from their prime. Plus they are all humble gym rats that enjoy being around each other and understand they have the unique opportunity to contend for years to come.

+1

the correct analysis of what will happen

JasonJohnHorn
06-14-2012, 04:00 PM
If the Thunder win this series, they are a dynasty. Everybody is SO young on this roster. It would be expensive to keep these players together, but for a team that is winning, it is worth it. the team will make more money while they are winning.

That said, if finances dictate that they will not be able to keep these guys on board, then trading players for high picks could be a good move. High picks land potentially great players and they come cheap because they are under rookie contracts.

But I'd REALLY like to see this core stick together for years to come.

Fresno
06-14-2012, 04:05 PM
a finals run every year is worth multiple millions of $ in terms of the gate alone

the real issue for OKC is no TV revenue like other markets...

I can see him Maybe being traded next year if they feel he will not be reasonable on a contract but the other thing people are missing is that a max deal for a first time guy is alot less than say the guys in Miami...

Westbrooks deal next year starts at $12.9 million No way Harden starts higher than him

in the simplest terms they could have all 4 under contract in 2013/2014 for around $57-58 million all on pretty much max deals

Durant 17.8
Westy 13.9
Harden 13.0
Ibaka 13.0

Add in Sef/Perk/collison for $15 million there overall salaries would be around $80 million

The probably could suck that up for 2 years until perk comes off the books or just amnesty him...

the thing that helps OKC alot is if Ibaka and him sign for around $10 million per year during the offseason which i am sure is what Presti will be focused on ... not trading Harden... signing the extension early has alot of value to these guys because of the risk of injury and the money being guaranteed

If OKlahoma City invests into Serge Ibaka, it means that Kendrick Perkins will be amnestied or traded to a team looking to reach the new salary floor in 2012-2013 of having at least $50 Million in salary.

Ibaka's market will be decided by the deals received by Hibbert, McGee, & Lopez. Centers get paid more money for lesser production than Power Forwards and Ibaka would hit the market looking to be valued as a Center. I can see his contract extension being anywhere between $10-$11.5 Million per year.

Vinylman
06-14-2012, 04:05 PM
Under the new CBA, you can not execute Sign & Trades with Restricted Free Agent's for players(only draft pick compensation & a Trade Exception).

You can only do Sign & Trades with Unrestricted Free Agents for players. Ex: Boston trading Big Baby to Orlando for Brandon Bass

so what you are saying is that they could trade him next summer for multiple numbers #1s and a trade exception... how is that different than trading him this year for the #2 pick ... or is it?

Carey
06-14-2012, 04:06 PM
Under the new CBA, you can not execute Sign & Trades with Restricted Free Agent's for players(only draft pick compensation & a Trade Exception).

You can only do Sign & Trades with Unrestricted Free Agents for players. Ex: Boston trading Big Baby to Orlando for Brandon Bass

Good catch! wasnt aware of that

topdog
06-14-2012, 04:07 PM
RFA's always walk for nothing :facepalm:

Huh? What are you talking about? Team's match about 80% of the time, especially when it's someone as talented as Harden. If you move an RFA-matched player by the trade deadline, you aren't hit with the tax.

Vinylman
06-14-2012, 04:10 PM
If OKlahoma City invests into Serge Ibaka, it means that Kendrick Perkins will be amnestied or traded to a team looking to reach the new salary floor in 2012-2013 of having at least $50 Million in salary.

Ibaka's market will be decided by the deals received by Hibbert, McGee, & Lopez. Centers get paid more money for lesser production than Power Forwards and Ibaka would hit the market looking to be valued as a Center. I can see his contract extension being anywhere between $10-$11.5 Million per year.

That has to be encouraging for OKC...

I think your point about salaries being generally lower under the new CBA is right on target...

Do you think both Harden and Ibaka will sign extensions or at least be offered them this offseason?

Vinylman
06-14-2012, 04:13 PM
Huh? What are you talking about? Team's match about 80% of the time, especially when it's someone as talented as Harden. If you move an RFA-matched player by the trade deadline, you aren't hit with the tax.

sarcasm my friend...

obviously he would be matched

I was responding to someone who thought he would be lost in FA :D

sixer04fan
06-14-2012, 04:14 PM
So he should just let Harden walk away and get a max somewhere else for nothing?

If the #2 pick is available for a guy that'll be gone soon, you take it. No questions asked.

Totally disagree.

They will be the heavy favorites to win it all next year if they keep Harden through the season. You don't give up an opportunity like that. You do everything in your power to try to win the championship next year, which would involve keeping Harden, and then you deal with it after the season. How do you think the Mavericks feel for letting Tyson Chandler walk?

Carey
06-14-2012, 04:15 PM
Presti also has more of a punchers chance to get this done by having Sefolsha and Collison locked into very manageable deals and no other long term deals locked in besides Perk which he can use the amnesty clause if things get a little too pricey.

Fresno
06-14-2012, 04:16 PM
If the Thunder win this series, they are a dynasty. Everybody is SO young on this roster. It would be expensive to keep these players together, but for a team that is winning, it is worth it. the team will make more money while they are winning.

That said, if finances dictate that they will not be able to keep these guys on board, then trading players for high picks could be a good move. High picks land potentially great players and they come cheap because they are under rookie contracts.

But I'd REALLY like to see this core stick together for years to come.

OKC can keep their "Young Guns" together for a long time.

If Durant gets $18 Million, Westbrook gets $14 Million, Harden gets $12 Million, & Ibaka gets $11 Million that leaves them at $55 Million in total salary. This is assuming they amnesty Perkins. In comparison, the Knicks are paying their "Big 3" of Melo/Amare/Chandler $55-58 Million per year. Yes, it can be costly to pay a handful of players but if you're winning and making a profit then it makes sense.

Thabo accounts for $4 Million
Collison accounts for $2.5 Million
Jackson accounts for $1.2 Million

The Luxury Tax grows to $74 Million, which means OKC will have $11.3 Million left remaining to fill out the remaining 7 other players on their active roster before they have to pay Luxury Taxes.

Veteran players will be taking discounts for the veterans minimum to play for a "Dynasty" in Oklahoma City who have a chance to win a Title. Also Oklahoma City picking at the bottom of the 1st Round means their pick between 28-30 in the 1st Round will only account for $1 Million.

dtmagnet
06-14-2012, 04:16 PM
If that is true then I would hope the Raptors go all out to try and acquire him.

Philapsychosis
06-14-2012, 04:21 PM
tough situation for okc for sure, but in a league where bi men are rare, especially talented ones I would also lead towards keeping Ibaka, harden dosnt make much money now which make him hard to trade for another star that would have a much bigger salary, I think a #2 pick is actually a good deal considering the scenario...too bad westbrook ate up so much of the payroll because I would keep ibaka and harden over just westbrook....but either way this team is young and will compete for a title for many years to come

I agree, good bi-sexual men are hard to come by in this league. Gotta hang on to them at all costs hahaha

clydebino
06-14-2012, 04:21 PM
theoretically true ... but show me 1 instance where a guy who gets a max contract on the open market signs the tender just to get out of a deal... especially when it is his first max deal....

one example would be shocking

Also, don't forget... he can't get max years signing with someone else

I was saying that if the scenario was that Harden was traded to the bobcats before he becomes a RFA. He is smart enough to not sign with that team. From going to the Finals to playing on a team that is horse crap, he wouldn't do it.

Carey
06-14-2012, 04:22 PM
OKC can keep their "Young Guns" together for a long time.

If Durant gets $18 Million, Westbrook gets $14 Million, Harden gets $12 Million, & Ibaka gets $11 Million that leaves them at $55 Million in total salary. This is assuming they amnesty Perkins. In comparison, the Knicks are paying their "Big 3" of Melo/Amare/Chandler $55-58 Million per year. Yes, it can be costly to pay a handful of players but if you're winning and making a profit then it makes sense.

Thabo accounts for $4 Million
Collison accounts for $2.5 Million
Jackson accounts for $1.2 Million

The Luxury Tax grows to $74 Million, which means OKC will have $11.3 Million left remaining to fill out the remaining 7 other players on their active roster before they have to pay Luxury Taxes.

Veteran players will be taking discounts for the veterans minimum to play for a "Dynasty" in Oklahoma City who have a chance to win a Title. Also Oklahoma City picking at the bottom of the 1st Round means their pick between 28-30 in the 1st Round will only account for $1 Million.

Well said, i've touched on all these aspects in the Thunder forum about 100 times lol but you've even expanded it a bit, also factor in they own the Tulsa 66ers and the coach there runs the same system as the Thunder. They've been grooming guys over the past couple years and dont necessarily have to keep 15 players on the roster because of these factors.

Fresno
06-14-2012, 04:23 PM
so what you are saying is that they could trade him next summer for multiple numbers #1s and a trade exception... how is that different than trading him this year for the #2 pick ... or is it?

Yes, they could trade him next summer for draft pick compensation.

But they'd have to find a team who is willing to overpay Harden to the tune of a 4/$60 Million dollar Max that OKC wont match, and then fork over future assets to OKC in return. Thats risky considering any team who overpays Harden would want to keep their assets to rebuild.

Hypothetically, Charlotte could keep the #2 pick now and then give an offer sheet to James Harden next summer to force OKC to match it.

Vinylman
06-14-2012, 04:30 PM
I was saying that if the scenario was that Harden was traded to the bobcats before he becomes a RFA. He is smart enough to not sign with that team. From going to the Finals to playing on a team that is horse crap, he wouldn't do it.

you are still saying he will play for the QO and not sign a guaranteed deal for around 4/$50 million at a minimum...

You really think he would risk that guaranteed money? Not Me.

knicks4life33
06-14-2012, 04:30 PM
i think okc is actually goin resign him and ibaka

knicks4life33
06-14-2012, 04:33 PM
they will go over the cap

Fresno
06-14-2012, 04:33 PM
Well said, i've touched on all these aspects in the Thunder forum about 100 times lol but you've even expanded it a bit, also factor in they own the Tulsa 66ers and the coach there runs the same system as the Thunder. They've been grooming guys over the past couple years and dont necessarily have to keep 15 players on the roster because of these factors.

Yep.

I forgot to mention Tibor Pleiss is joining the Thunder next season.

They picked up his rights in the 2nd Round in 2010. Pleiss is a 23 year old 7'1 C who is averaging 10 PPG, 6 RPG, & 1.5 BPG in only 20 minutes playing in Germany. He's expected to fill in as a backup to Perkins, when Nazr Mohammed likely retires.

It'll be interesting to see which veterans decide to join the OKC Thunder next season. Since they are a "Room Team"(over the cap, under the Luxury Tax) they will have a $5 Million Dollar MLE to spend possibly on 1 year deals.

topdog
06-14-2012, 04:33 PM
sarcasm my friend...

obviously he would be matched

I was responding to someone who thought he would be lost in FA :D

Okay, good. I was kind of wondering that...

Fresno
06-14-2012, 04:40 PM
you are still saying he will play for the QO and not sign a guaranteed deal for around 4/$50 million at a minimum...

You really think he would risk that guaranteed money? Not Me.
Exactly.:clap::clap:

The blueprint is to sign your 1st big contract at 22/23 and then become an Unrestricted Free Agent 4-5 years down the line and get your 2nd big contract if you continue to improve.

No player has ever turned down a valuable Extension as a Restricted Free Agent to take their smaller QO just to become an Unrestricted Free Agent the following year. The only guys who have to pick up their Qualifying Offer are guys like Nick Young who teams are concerned with paying.

clydebino
06-14-2012, 04:41 PM
you are still saying he will play for the QO and not sign a guaranteed deal for around 4/$50 million at a minimum...

You really think he would risk that guaranteed money? Not Me.
Hell yeah I think he would because wouldn't he become a FA after that year where he could pick the team he wants to play for and still get a nice hefty contract or even a better one than the 4/$50 mil?

THE MTL
06-14-2012, 04:44 PM
Okay, they are overrating James Harden. Making him a franchise player is a bit much? And he isnt worth a maximum contract.

clydebino
06-14-2012, 04:44 PM
Exactly.:clap::clap:

The blueprint is to sign your 1st big contract at 22/23 and then become an Unrestricted Free Agent 4-5 years down the line and get your 2nd big contract if you continue to improve.

No player has ever turned down a valuable Extension as a Restricted Free Agent to take their smaller QO just to become an Unrestricted Free Agent the following year. The only guys who have to pick up their Qualifying Offer are guys like Nick Young who teams are concerned with paying.

But if you had to play for the bobcats you would still take that max deal? IMO I would say screw that and just take the QO and go to a team where you can actually go to the playoffs

Vinylman
06-14-2012, 04:48 PM
Okay, they are overrating James Harden. Making him a franchise player is a bit much? And he isnt worth a maximum contract.

Most sane people can agree on this

lavell12
06-14-2012, 04:49 PM
Why in the world would Harden give the okay to this move, he would not want to play for the freaking Bobcats and he can get the some money with a much better team.

jimbobjarree
06-14-2012, 04:49 PM
really hope Utah throw their half their cap at him next summer, wherever he goes

lvblay3
06-14-2012, 04:57 PM
i think okc is actually goin resign him and ibaka



I agree and everybody wanting to ammesty Perk... has to slow down and think.. Perkins is one of the best Defensive Centers in the game and IF it comes down to it the will ship Perkins out but, OKC will go over the Luxary Tax and remember it not as harsh of a tax if you sign your own players... which Ibaka and Harden were both drafted by the Thunder and don't for get about Maynor who wasnt drafted by the Thunder... He going to be a starter so where its a matter if the Thunder trade him or let him go after next year... Sef and Collisons deals were done for this reason front loaded.. Perk has 3 more years after this year i thinks so two after Harden and Ibaka gets there money.. They can pay out for 2 years for multipal championships...

popo85
06-14-2012, 05:04 PM
Okay, they are overrating James Harden. Making him a franchise player is a bit much? And he isnt worth a maximum contract.

Some foolish team will overpay and think he's there savior.

Baller1
06-14-2012, 05:05 PM
So he should just let Harden walk away and get a max somewhere else for nothing?

If the #2 pick is available for a guy that'll be gone soon, you take it. No questions asked.


when harden walks for nothing to get a max will he be stupid then?

Harden is not going anywhere. Presti knows he has the next best SG in the league, he's not letting him leave for anything.

netsgiantsyanks
06-14-2012, 05:11 PM
harden isn't worth a max deal. the most i'd do is 5 years-50 million.

Iron24th
06-14-2012, 05:18 PM
We all know that okc can't keep them all,durant is a lock,probably westy too, but perk,ibaka,harden, it will be impossible to keep those 3 together with the new CBA.

RLundi
06-14-2012, 05:21 PM
That would really suck big time if the Thunder win a ring but have to break up the core for fiscal responsibilities.

Fresno
06-14-2012, 05:25 PM
But if you had to play for the bobcats you would still take that max deal? IMO I would say screw that and just take the QO and go to a team where you can actually go to the playoffs

Yet how many of those Playoff teams have cap space?

If you're a young player willing to take less money to play for a team that "could" go to the Playoffs instead of making far more money on a bad team in a rebuilding stage then it doesn't make sense.

Veteran players are the ones who make those sacrifices, primarily due to the fact that they chose to take more money to be with a bad team when they were young players in the NBA.

You gotta seperate your own personal preference from what reality dictates for business in the NBA.

Fresno
06-14-2012, 05:29 PM
Some foolish team will overpay and think he's there savior.

He's not the only player who would hypothetically be hitting the market.

Tyreke Evans, Brandon Jennings, DeMar DeRozan, Steph Curry, & Jrue Holiday are likely to be RFA's in 2013 as well.

There are other options for teams than simply throwing all of your money at Harden.

DerekRE_3
06-14-2012, 05:35 PM
he would be forced to as a RFA

Not true. He could take a one year qualifying offer and then become an unrestricted free agent the next year. A lot of guys don't want to risk injury to do that though, especially if a max offer is on the table.

clydebino
06-14-2012, 05:40 PM
Yet how many of those Playoff teams have cap space?

If you're a young player willing to take less money to play for a team that "could" go to the Playoffs instead of making far more money on a bad team in a rebuilding stage then it doesn't make sense.

Veteran players are the ones who make those sacrifices, primarily due to the fact that they chose to take more money to be with a bad team when they were young players in the NBA.

You gotta seperate your own personal preference from what reality dictates for business in the NBA.
Harden is going to get paid no matter what team he goes to. I'm pretty sure he would rather be on a winning team and still getting paid a chunk of change than get overpaid and be on a crappy *** team. Harden would sacrifice some money to stay with OKC than rather be on the Bobcats

Missing56&33
06-14-2012, 05:41 PM
The Thunder are not trading Harden,especially if they win the title.They should just let it play out and trust that he stays to win championships.

this.....he may be stupid enough to walk away from a max deal to stay with OKC.

BKLYNpigeon
06-14-2012, 05:44 PM
If OKC wins the Championship, Harden will walk away.

nycericanguy
06-14-2012, 05:49 PM
We all know that okc can't keep them all,durant is a lock,probably westy too, but perk,ibaka,harden, it will be impossible to keep those 3 together with the new CBA.

:facepalm:

How is it impossible? They have their BR's and can go over the cap to resign them.

Not to mention they can amnesty Perkins.

OKC can easily keep their 4 core together for about $55m...

Vinylman
06-14-2012, 05:52 PM
Not true. He could take a one year qualifying offer and then become an unrestricted free agent the next year. A lot of guys don't want to risk injury to do that though, especially if a max offer is on the table.

already responded to this... i think you answered your own question though :clap:

Vinylman
06-14-2012, 05:54 PM
Yet how many of those Playoff teams have cap space?

If you're a young player willing to take less money to play for a team that "could" go to the Playoffs instead of making far more money on a bad team in a rebuilding stage then it doesn't make sense.

Veteran players are the ones who make those sacrifices, primarily due to the fact that they chose to take more money to be with a bad team when they were young players in the NBA.

You gotta seperate your own personal preference from what reality dictates for business in the NBA.

exactly... harden's not stupid... he might not be happy about it but he wouldn't pass up the money... especially since he will probably have already won a title

Bruno
06-14-2012, 05:57 PM
they're trading the wrong guy.

tcav701
06-14-2012, 06:05 PM
I would trade Westbrook.

But that's just me.

waveycrockett
06-14-2012, 06:05 PM
I dont see any team being stupid enough to give Harden a MAX deal. Thats crazy. With that said even if Beal is as good as the hype there is no way OKC gets back to the finals next year without Harden. He has done too much for this team.

waveycrockett
06-14-2012, 06:10 PM
I would trade Westbrook.

But that's just me.

And replace him with who?

tcav701
06-14-2012, 06:17 PM
And replace him with who?

Someone who doesn't need MAX money.

The luxury tax rules are going to cripple teams, unless you are in a huge market, it's gonna be tough to keep more than one MAX guy and still sign competent help.

clydebino
06-14-2012, 06:19 PM
I would trade Westbrook.

But that's just me.

Having two superstars on your team, beats only having one on your team..

smith&wesson
06-14-2012, 06:27 PM
He's not the only player who would hypothetically be hitting the market.

Tyreke Evans, Brandon Jennings, DeMar DeRozan, Steph Curry, & Jrue Holiday are likely to be RFA's in 2013 as well.

There are other options for teams than simply throwing all of your money at Harden.

ya but harden is by the best out of that group. this is coming from a guy who cant stand harden but you have to give credit where its due the kids a stud.

waveycrockett
06-14-2012, 06:29 PM
ya but harden is by the best out of that group. this is coming from a guy who cant stand harden but you have to give credit where its due the kids a stud.

It's very arguable he is the best out of that group considering the rest of those guys are very talented but play on bad teams. If Harden had to be a #1 or #2 option with little help he would be in a similar situation.

Carey
06-14-2012, 06:33 PM
Yep.

I forgot to mention Tibor Pleiss is joining the Thunder next season.

They picked up his rights in the 2nd Round in 2010. Pleiss is a 23 year old 7'1 C who is averaging 10 PPG, 6 RPG, & 1.5 BPG in only 20 minutes playing in Germany. He's expected to fill in as a backup to Perkins, when Nazr Mohammed likely retires.

It'll be interesting to see which veterans decide to join the OKC Thunder next season. Since they are a "Room Team"(over the cap, under the Luxury Tax) they will have a $5 Million Dollar MLE to spend possibly on 1 year deals.

Yea i started a thread on him in 2010 after i watched a game of his and gave a scouting report. Will be a nice year to get him in and adjusted and if we do indeed amnesty Perk, then Pleiss and Aldrich can man the center spot.

D-Leethal
06-14-2012, 06:34 PM
Harden is going to be a ****ing beast when he goes to his own squad. I see 23-5-5 with great efficiency and maybe even more scoring the way he can get to the line.

Vinylman
06-14-2012, 06:48 PM
maybe someone can help...

is there a way to see how many minutes harden played this year with both Durant and Westy on the floor...

While i think Harden is a very good player i was just wondering how much of that is because the defense has to focus on the other two...

kenzo400
06-14-2012, 07:06 PM
No reason for a team to trade for him if he's just going to be available as an RFA next year. If the Thunder can't afford him, then they can't afford him. Nothing is going to change in that regard between now and the next offseason.

This. I don't understand the point of trading the pick. They can just offer Harden the max and see if OKC matches. If they don't then they still have the second pick and Harden.

smith&wesson
06-14-2012, 07:26 PM
It's very arguable he is the best out of that group considering the rest of those guys are very talented but play on bad teams. If Harden had to be a #1 or #2 option with little help he would be in a similar situation.

i respectfully disagree, actually think its the opposite.

if harden was on a **** team like the raptors for example he would stand out even more and would be an allstar imo.

right now he takes a back seat to westbrook and durant. on a crap team he would start and get alot more touches and minutes. he would be the best player on that team.

WickedBadMan
06-14-2012, 07:28 PM
If they weren't going to win the Championship this year, this might have happened.

Brb draft Robinson/Beal, sign Steve Nash, move Westbrook to SG.

LA_Raiders
06-14-2012, 07:43 PM
Smart move for both teams... Harden is a good fit for the Bulls IMO...

justinnum1
06-14-2012, 07:45 PM
Smart move for both teams... Harden is a good fit for the Bulls IMO...

lol, what? bulls dont have anything the thunder would want.

Blazers#1Fan
06-14-2012, 08:37 PM
Word..they should just amnesty Perkins and try to keep both Ibaka and Harden. Then got a center through the draft.

let perkins walk or trade him,resign both this year (after the draft/Perkins) before they get bigger contracts next year and you got your core still and maybe you can get a center with trading perkins for picks and grab Fab Melo they could develop him fast with those other 4

Fab
Ibaka
Durant
Harden
Westbrook

Kevj77
06-14-2012, 09:00 PM
A lot of people have been wondering if they could afford 3 max contracts assuming Harden ask for the max and Ibaka plus decent role players. Remember the new luxury tax is going to be murder. This isn't a decision Presti can make it is the owners decision how much tax he is willing to pay.

If Presti knows that the owner won't pay the tax this would be another brilliant move by Presti. Draft a player that will be on a rookie contract for several years and keep Ibaka who should be cheaper. Presti always seem to draft the right guy.

What should Presti do if he knows they can't afford Harden lose him for nothing? Of course it could all be pure speculation and the Thunder may be committed to paying everyone.

Lo Porto
06-14-2012, 09:07 PM
This is the type of deal that a smart GM makes. Presti could have good rookie on an affordable contract for the next 5 years. He might only be able to keep Harden for one more season.

As a Jazz fan, I hope this doesn't happen.

mgsports
06-14-2012, 09:11 PM
Because Game 7 would be the day before the Draft.

Lab Rat Robby
06-14-2012, 09:38 PM
Most sane people can agree on this

call me insane. watch the spurs/thunder series again. harden is a legit franchise player.

Fresno
06-14-2012, 10:51 PM
Harden is going to be a ****ing beast when he goes to his own squad. I see 23-5-5 with great efficiency and maybe even more scoring the way he can get to the line.

So now James Harden is Kobe/Wade level?

Good player, but he's getting way overrated in this thread.

Fresno
06-14-2012, 11:02 PM
ya but harden is by the best out of that group. this is coming from a guy who cant stand harden but you have to give credit where its due the kids a stud.

The gap between Harden & Jennings/Tyreke/Curry is not that wide in terms of value if a desperate team wants to add a potential Franchise player.

The unfortunate situation for all 3 of those players is they're playing a prominent role on teams that aren't competitive at the moment, while Harden is a 6th Man on a Championship contender.

I truly dont see Harden as a #1 option no more than I see Brandon Jennings or Tyreke Evans as a #1 option. He'll be productive, but he's a player who needs good players around him if he's supposed to be "The Man".

Fresno
06-14-2012, 11:06 PM
Yea i started a thread on him in 2010 after i watched a game of his and gave a scouting report. Will be a nice year to get him in and adjusted and if we do indeed amnesty Perk, then Pleiss and Aldrich can man the center spot.

I think they'll decline Aldrich's options and try to re-sign him for a lesser salary. He hasn't proved so far he's worth more than a minimum salary in the NBA, but of course that could change next season without Nazr Mohammed.

TylerSL
06-15-2012, 03:30 AM
Harden will leave the Thunder this summer. He will be offered a max (or at least near one) and OKC won't be able to match it.

naps
06-15-2012, 03:49 AM
I would amnesty Perkins in a second if that allowed me to keep both of Harden and Ibaka. I am not sure if it's possible though. But if there is absolutely no way they can keep both then it's not a bad deal at all. Or may be they can explore some trades for Harden that land them some experienced and seasoned players to fill the weaker sides of the roster, preferably a big and a scorer off the bench.

Monta is beast
06-15-2012, 03:58 AM
Would the Thunder accept Klay Thompson & the 7th pick for Harden? If they could swing a deal like this, the Warriors are also interested in bringing in Kirk Hinrich & Reggie Evans, draft Ezeli.

Curry-Hinrich-Jenkins
Harden-Rush
Wright-Jefferson
Lee-Evans-Tyler
Bogut-Biedrins-Ezeli

billsftw
06-15-2012, 04:03 AM
+1

the correct analysis of what will happen

doubt it. You'll see soon enough.

jp611
06-15-2012, 07:45 AM
ya but harden is by the best out of that group. this is coming from a guy who cant stand harden but you have to give credit where its due the kids a stud.

The gap between Harden & Jennings/Tyreke/Curry is not that wide in terms of value if a desperate team wants to add a potential Franchise player.

The unfortunate situation for all 3 of those players is they're playing a prominent role on teams that aren't competitive at the moment, while Harden is a 6th Man on a Championship contender.

I truly dont see Harden as a #1 option no more than I see Brandon Jennings or Tyreke Evans as a #1 option. He'll be productive, but he's a player who needs good players around him if he's supposed to be "The Man".

There's a huge difference between harden and those players, James Harden is one of if not the most efficient players in the league, those 3 mentioned are inefficient as can be... Harden can definitely be the man on a team, he is so good, he can handle the rock, he's extremely efficient from anywhere on the floor, he needs to work on his defense but he can definitely be a good number 1 option on a team

chi-townlove1
06-15-2012, 08:45 AM
So I was thinking about the thunders current lineup and their upcoming offseason decisions. I absolutely love this thunder team and wish they could everyone in tact for the next 5 years. But it's just not possible. A decision has to be made about harden and ibaka. Who to keep and who to let go. Well I was thinking why cant they do both. This is by no means bashing Russell Westbrook because I absolutely love watchin this kid play and don't understand the criticism he gets. But my question for you guys is should the thunder exercise the option of trading Russell Westbrook for say, rajon rondo and allow themselves the opportunity to keep harden and ibaka. Having a lineup of rondo/harden/Durant/ibaka/Perkins is almost certainly as good as their current one. After all many of you hate the fact that Russ is taking more shots than Durant.. Just a thought. What do you guys think?

Evolution23
06-15-2012, 08:47 AM
I would be all over this move. Rondo would make this team much better on both ends of the floor.

Davidgta1
06-15-2012, 08:50 AM
Idk about Russle for Rondo. but I would trade Russle befor I would trade harden.

Davidgta1
06-15-2012, 08:51 AM
If OKC wanted to trade Russle I'm more then sure they could trade him to the Nets for D.Will.

chi-townlove1
06-15-2012, 08:58 AM
If OKC wanted to trade Russle I'm more then sure they could trade him to the Nets for D.Will.

I was thinking that when writing this post. But then it occurred to me, defeats the purpose of this idea. D will still demands a max, I don't believe rondo is even close. Allowing money for both harden and Ibaka

ManRam
06-15-2012, 09:03 AM
How does trading RW for Rondo help them keep those two? Rondo will be a couple million dollars cheaper for a few years, then he will also demand the max.

It's gonna be tough. Especially with Perk's contract to financially afford to keep Harden and Ibaka. It's probably impossible as is. They'd have to shed a lot of salary. As is, they night not afford being able to keep either.

B2B
06-15-2012, 09:06 AM
OKC is finding success with Harden as their 6th man.

If OKC has to make financial decisions, I would trade Harden 5mil with Perkins 8mil to the Bobcats for the #2 pick & 12mil cap relief.


With the #2 pick select Drummond, replace Perkins.

Use the 12mil cap relief to resign Ibaka & sign a vet 6th man.

Drummond (rookie contract) vs Perkins 7mi/8mil/9mil
Ibaka (resigned)
Durant
Sefolosha/Vet SG (i.e FA J.Terry signed)
Westbrook

LongIslandIcedZ
06-15-2012, 09:11 AM
Try and trade Harden for number 2 and take Beal. Such a great consolation prize for losing Harden. You get a player who could potentially be better, for much much cheaper.

sweet-d
06-15-2012, 09:13 AM
Keep Harden and Ibaka and go over the salary cap or get rid of Perkins.

chi-townlove1
06-15-2012, 09:22 AM
I'm starting to think that harden is more important to this team than Westbrook, don't you think?

justinnum1
06-15-2012, 10:26 AM
he might want to go to a team where he avg more than 12 shots a game

BklynKnicks3
06-15-2012, 12:02 PM
max cat

papipapsmanny
06-15-2012, 12:24 PM
Come on Wizards! If this becomes a reality I want the Wiz to deal 3 and (prob other picks) for Harden. F the Bobcats they are so dumb, Harden would be the only one on that team.

Let me as a Wiz fan Watch Wall/Harden/Nene

With Crawford/Seraphin/Vesely/Booker/Singleton mixed in.

Sandman
06-15-2012, 12:38 PM
Its not impossible. They just need to amnesty Perkins.

Durant makes $18 Million
Westbrook will make $14 Million

James Harden is not getting a Max offer of 4/$60 Million, I dont know what world some of you guys live in but under the new CBA rules there isn't a NBA team who will pay Harden that kind of money. That type of offer is only set for All Star players like Kevin Love, not a 6th Man like Harden.

if this is about money and not cap space why amnesty KP?

Eg714
06-15-2012, 12:50 PM
The lakers should trade Bynum for ibaka and harden.

LongWayFromHome
06-15-2012, 01:06 PM
Keep Harden and Ibaka and go over the salary cap or get rid of Perkins.

I have always thought this. I know people I'm crazy, but he is the kind of player that WINS. He would totally play for the Spurs.

You can get some serious trade value for Westy!

Wolfman01
06-15-2012, 03:35 PM
Harden and Ibaka still have a year left on their contract which they can still play for the Thunder next year. The Thunder can trade Perkins who makes 7+ million a year to clear some salary cap to sign Harden and Ibaka. Harden and Ibaka will have to agree to a smaller contract that pays them on average between 4-7 million a year only if both of them wants a longer contract.

JordansBulls
06-15-2012, 09:56 PM
If the Thunder win the title they may do this.

NYKnicksAllDay
06-16-2012, 01:25 AM
The lakers should trade Bynum for ibaka and harden.

Harden + Ibaka > Bynum. I wouldn't make that trade if I'm the Thunder.

thekmp211
06-16-2012, 02:13 AM
with westbrook and durant on the wings its hard to say that harden is irreplacable. i think ibaka is mroe valuable to those two than harden, and i really really like harden. tough spot but i get it.

LongIslandIcedZ
06-16-2012, 02:16 AM
They should try and move Westbrook and re-sign Harden long term.

ChitownBears22
06-16-2012, 02:18 AM
They should try and move Westbrook and re-sign Harden long term.

Yeah then they can have Derek Fisher and Maynor run the point. I think people underestimate RW's passing skills. He may shoot alot but KD sometimes goes invisible forcing RW to shoot more. He is still young and keeping him and KD together makes more sense than Harden and KD together.

KD has also said he likes when RW is taking shots.

TheWhiteMamba
06-16-2012, 02:18 AM
I know it'll never happen but man if the Bulls somehow got Harden :drool:

ChitownBears22
06-16-2012, 02:19 AM
Based on the PSD threads they could probably trade Ronnie Brewer for Harden.