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View Full Version : Matt Cain: Most Dominant Perfect Game?



kjoke
06-14-2012, 12:50 PM
Did Matt Cain have the best Perfect Game? 14k to go along with that.

sexicano31
06-14-2012, 01:07 PM
Didnt watch it, but if he kept guys off balance the entire night and there were very few hard hit balls then I would say yes

flips333
06-14-2012, 01:08 PM
Maybe... Probably wasn't as dominant as some other games... That ball screamed into centerfield... Games with 1 hitters where no one hit it out of the infield are more dominant in my opinion

******2017
06-14-2012, 01:10 PM
He's asking if it's the most dominant perfect game so you only have 21 other options. 1 hitters and no hitters don't count.

I agree with sexicano.

infernoscurse
06-14-2012, 01:17 PM
i would say no, David Wells did it with 11k's and having a hangover while pitching it

David Wells is the man

Pinstripe pride
06-14-2012, 01:19 PM
http://media.photobucket.com/image/matt%20cain/johnmav2/EraserHit.jpg

infernoscurse
06-14-2012, 01:23 PM
He's asking if it's the most dominant perfect game so you only have 21 other options. 1 hitters and no hitters don't count.

I agree with sexicano.

sandy koufax was better, Cain faced the astros, koufax faced ron santo, ernie banks and billy williams

KobeOwnSU
06-14-2012, 01:29 PM
The fact that he did it against the Astros means it wasn't the most dominant perfect game.

Lakers + Giants
06-14-2012, 01:47 PM
IDK if it's the most dominant perfect game but overall performance? Hell yea.

Cain had a career high in 14 strikeouts last night (tied for 1st in a perfect game), The highest pitch count in a perfect game with 125 pitches thrown, He also got a hit and scored a run (the first pitcher to do that in a perfect game).

The giants also scored 10 runs ( the most runs by a team in a perfect game).

It was definitely one of the best overall performances by a pitcher and one of the best overall games played by a team.

BDawk4Prez
06-14-2012, 01:50 PM
sandy koufax was better, Cain faced the astros, koufax faced ron santo, ernie banks and billy williams

You beat me to it, Koufax's was easily more dominant. Can anyone here, without looking, and despite Altuve name 5 other hitters that the 'Stros trotted out there last night?


IDK if it's the most dominant perfect game but overall performance? Hell yea.

Cain had a career high in 14 strikeouts last night (tied for 1st in a perfect game), The highest pitch count in a perfect game with 125 pitches thrown, He also got a hit and scored a run (the first pitcher to do that in a perfect game).

The giants also scored 10 runs ( the most runs by a team in a perfect game).

It was definitely one of the best overall performances by a pitcher and one of the best overall games played by a team.

Kerry Woods 20K game says hello.

BKLYNpigeon
06-14-2012, 01:52 PM
It was against the AAA Houston Astros... I dont know 3 players on that team. most dominate? probably not, and it doesnt really mater. hell of a game for Cain though.


Lincecum You Mad?

Lakers + Giants
06-14-2012, 01:53 PM
You beat me to it, Koufax's was easily more dominant. Can anyone here, without looking, and despite Altuve name 5 other hitters that the 'Stros trotted out there last night?



Kerry Woods 20K game says hello.

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/25634/did-matt-cain-throw-greatest-game-ever

Like you said, only kerry wood's game has a higher score. Other than that, we've probably never seen an overall performance like this.

Zaunnie
06-14-2012, 01:59 PM
What about Halladay's perfect game?

TheRuckus
06-14-2012, 01:59 PM
For ****'s sake, kjoke/95% of PSD.

DOMINANT. Dominate is a verb, dominant is an adjective.

Anyway, the answer is most likely yes.

americaspasttim
06-14-2012, 02:01 PM
The Astros have some good hitters, down playing a perfect game because it was against a crappy team is ridiculous...

BDawk4Prez
06-14-2012, 02:08 PM
The Astros have some good hitters, down playing a perfect game because it was against a crappy team is ridiculous...

Who besides Altuve last night was one of their "good hitters"? Not so much down playing it, as they are making a case that although dominant, there is certainly something to be said about who he faced.

NYMetros
06-14-2012, 02:09 PM
Kerry Woods 20K game says hello.

That wasn't a perfect game.

I'd say yes, he was pretty freaking dominant, though I didn't start watching til about the 6th inning.

BDawk4Prez
06-14-2012, 02:10 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/25634/did-matt-cain-throw-greatest-game-ever

Like you said, only kerry wood's game has a higher score. Other than that, we've probably never seen an overall performance like this.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/matt-cains-place-in-history/

Don't forget Ryan's 16 K no hitter. Cain is tied with Ryan and Koufax with a game score of 101, just ahead of Johnson and Schilling.

infernoscurse
06-14-2012, 02:10 PM
For ****'s sake, kjoke/95% of PSD.

DOMINANT. Dominate is a verb, dominant is an adjective.

Anyway, the answer is most likely yes.

i tink your mad, why are you getting youre fingers all agitated in this place

ilstubirds
06-14-2012, 02:11 PM
Maybe... Probably wasn't as dominant as some other games... That ball screamed into centerfield... Games with 1 hitters where no one hit it out of the infield are more dominant in my opinion

Hmm...wonder what other game against the Astros you're talking about..

DaSox_05
06-14-2012, 02:11 PM
JDIsMyGod23 wrote a great article on rant after Philip Humber pitched a perfect game ranking all of them.

Cain's if not the best is damn near the top.

BDawk4Prez
06-14-2012, 02:14 PM
That wasn't a perfect game.

I'd say yes, he was pretty freaking dominant, though I didn't start watching til about the 6th inning.

Correct, but far more "dominant", yeah? I mean, if he gave up 3 runs, 6 hits, and struck out 20 then that would lower it a bit. But, Wood only gave up 1 hit, thanks a lot Kevin Orie. Otherwise, a perfect game it was.

americaspasttim
06-14-2012, 02:15 PM
Who besides Altuve last night was one of their "good hitters"? Not so much down playing it, as they are making a case that although dominant, there is certainly something to be said about who he faced.
Jed Lowries is pretty good. :shrug: The Astro's currently rank 18th in the Majors in hits, pretty middle of the pack...

BDawk4Prez
06-14-2012, 02:22 PM
Jed Lowries is pretty good. :shrug: The Astro's currently rank 18th in the Majors in hits, pretty middle of the pack...

Currently, from their starting 9 from last night, 1 player is over .280(altuve) (other than a part time Wallace). Of the rest, 2 players hitting above .243(Lowrie, Johnson). The rest, .243, .242, .226, .224, .188, .87.

Not what you call a very feared line up.

infernoscurse
06-14-2012, 02:22 PM
i still say theres no competition about dominance when you throw a perfect game while having a hangover, i cant even get out of bed and make myself breakfast during hang overs!


All Hail David Wells for his immortal victory defeating human nature and the Minnesota Twins

bigmac8675
06-14-2012, 02:42 PM
Amazing game by Cain no doubt.... but best ever. No! It was against the Astros.....lol

kjoke
06-14-2012, 02:51 PM
For ****'s sake, kjoke/95% of PSD.

DOMINANT. Dominate is a verb, dominant is an adjective.

Anyway, the answer is most likely yes.

:laugh2: Did not see that.

GamerFTW
06-14-2012, 03:00 PM
The Astros 8th in the NL in runs scored and 9th in batting average. They are 17th in the MLB in runs scored, and 18th in batting average. Can everybody quit with the "LOLZ AZTROZ R A 3A TEAM LAWL TEH NO_HITTRE IZNT AS GOOD" because it's just ignorant. The Astros are better than half the NL and roughly 40% of the league at hitting and scoring runs.

Jeffy25
06-14-2012, 03:11 PM
There isn't really any way to determine it other than strike out totals, and if his defense had to do a lot of work. My knee jerk reaction is probably no. But I didn't get to watch it, so I don't really know. I guess it will have to come down to those that remember other perfect games well enough to answer.

I feel like Randy Johnson's was one for the ages personally.

Jeffy25
06-14-2012, 03:13 PM
The Astros 8th in the NL in runs scored and 9th in batting average. They are 17th in the MLB in runs scored, and 18th in batting average. Can everybody quit with the "LOLZ AZTROZ R A 3A TEAM LAWL TEH NO_HITTRE IZNT AS GOOD" because it's just ignorant. The Astros are better than half the NL and roughly 40% of the league at hitting and scoring runs.

Yeah, and they draw a ton of walks

sexicano31
06-14-2012, 03:17 PM
What about Halladay's perfect game?

Docs playoff no hitter was a more dominant game than his perfect game

clydebino
06-14-2012, 03:18 PM
I'm gonna say no on that. Dallas Braden's was more dominant than Cain's because it was a 1st place team that he completely shut down, compared to a misfit team..

******2017
06-14-2012, 03:23 PM
I'm gonna say no on that. Dallas Braden's was more dominant than Cain's because it was a 1st place team that he completely shut down, compared to a misfit team..
The batting averages of the players in that game are minimally higher than what the Astros trotted out last night. The only thing Cain has that damages the perception compared to Braden's is the pitcher batting.

lol, please
06-14-2012, 03:25 PM
i would say no, David Wells did it with 11k's and having a hangover while pitching it

David Wells is the man
lol.

sandy koufax was better, Cain faced the astros, koufax faced ron santo, ernie banks and billy williams
I hadn't though of that. Agreed.

clydebino
06-14-2012, 03:33 PM
The batting averages of the players in that game are minimally higher than what the Astros trotted out last night. The only thing Cain has that damages the perception compared to Braden's is the pitcher batting.

But wouldn't you agree that throwing a perfecto against a 1st place team, compared to a last place team is a little bit more eye appealing and dominant?

americaspasttim
06-14-2012, 03:40 PM
Currently, from their starting 9 from last night, 1 player is over .280(altuve) (other than a part time Wallace). Of the rest, 2 players hitting above .243(Lowrie, Johnson). The rest, .243, .242, .226, .224, .188, .87.

Not what you call a very feared line up.
One thing I forgot to add, until last night, they were ahead of the Royals, Jays, Diamondbacks, and Orioles in total hits, putting them into the top 15 in total hits. On a side note, if they are so horrible, why hasn't anyone else no hit them? By your logic they should be getting no hit every night...

lol, please
06-14-2012, 03:46 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME56LEQya7Y&feature=player_detailpage

astrosmaniac
06-14-2012, 03:49 PM
Yeah the Astros aren't THAT bad offensively and if their pitching had gone in the crapper recently they'd only be couple games under .500. People also forget the Astros draw a slot of walks, it's not just hits he didn't allow

sexicano31
06-14-2012, 03:52 PM
But wouldn't you agree that throwing a perfecto against a 1st place team, compared to a last place team is a little bit more eye appealing and dominant?

No...

jbeezy
06-14-2012, 03:57 PM
Cain's wife is ****ing hot :drool: that is dominant right there

BDawk4Prez
06-14-2012, 04:08 PM
One thing I forgot to add, until last night, they were ahead of the Royals, Jays, Diamondbacks, and Orioles in total hits, putting them into the top 15 in total hits. On a side note, if they are so horrible, why hasn't anyone else no hit them? By your logic they should be getting no hit every night...

I'm not saying what he did wasn't legit, I'm just saying it was far from the most dominant performance of our time.

RTL
06-14-2012, 04:27 PM
Who gives a ****? Cain's perfect game is in the conversation and that's all that really matters!

******2017
06-14-2012, 04:27 PM
But wouldn't you agree that throwing a perfecto against a 1st place team, compared to a last place team is a little bit more eye appealing and dominant?
Not at all. The worst team in baseball can beat the best team with their best pitcher and lineup on any given night so if you flip it the other way around it shouldn't be any different. I've seen detractors post in every thread about a perfect game or no hitter in the last few years. Liriano and the Diamondbacks guy might have had the worst no-no's in history but the fact they still pulled it off is an incredible feat. Even with Humber's people got in a frenzy because it was the Mariners.

KingPosey
06-14-2012, 04:41 PM
It was down right DOMINANT, but arent they all lol?

KingPosey
06-14-2012, 04:42 PM
Docs playoff no hitter was a more dominant game than his perfect game

right....

Jeffy25
06-14-2012, 05:08 PM
right....

I think it was, with the exception of the walk.

He was still more dominating in that game than in his perfect game.


There are a lot of no hitters that the pitcher lost the perfect game because of a walk or an error that was more dominating than some of the perfectos that we already have (arguably).

You can throw a perfect game or a no-hitter and have a lot of help from your defense.

waveycrockett
06-14-2012, 05:34 PM
I think it was, with the exception of the walk.

He was still more dominating in that game than in his perfect game.


There are a lot of no hitters that the pitcher lost the perfect game because of a walk or an error that was more dominating than some of the perfectos that we already have (arguably).

You can throw a perfect game or a no-hitter and have a lot of help from your defense.

This. The most dominant performance of my lifetime was Kerry Wood's performance against the Astro's and it wasn't even a no-hitter.

1908_Cubs
06-14-2012, 05:44 PM
I think it was, with the exception of the walk.

He was still more dominating in that game than in his perfect game.


There are a lot of no hitters that the pitcher lost the perfect game because of a walk or an error that was more dominating than some of the perfectos that we already have (arguably).

You can throw a perfect game or a no-hitter and have a lot of help from your defense.

Agreed.

Hell if there wasn't a fantastic play made on that gapper in the 7th, we might be talking about a 14K one hitter right now.

harlequin018
06-14-2012, 05:45 PM
For those of you who have not seen this game, do yourself the favor and watch it. Matt Cain was absolutely dialed in and anyone who's a baseball fan can appreciate the mastery and precision of what he was doing. I'm a Rangers fan, so complimenting a Giants player doesn't come easy, but it was an incredible performance. I watched Kerry Wood strike out 20 Astros a few years back and this was a very close second in terms of the best pitching that I have ever seen.

waveycrockett
06-14-2012, 05:54 PM
For those of you who have not seen this game, do yourself the favor and watch it. Matt Cain was absolutely dialed in and anyone who's a baseball fan can appreciate the mastery and precision of what he was doing. I'm a Rangers fan, so complimenting a Giants player doesn't come easy, but it was an incredible performance. I watched Kerry Wood strike out 20 Astros a few years back and this was a very close second in terms of the best pitching that I have ever seen.

Hideo Nomo and Cliff Lee's game 1 performance in the WS against NYY still trump this but it's a great performance nontheless.

goldenstater
06-14-2012, 06:03 PM
i dont know if you can say it is or isnt the greatest perfect game of all time but what you can say without a doubt is it is up there in top of pitching performances. he was flat out filthy last night maybe like i have never seen anyone else before. fun to watch for sure!!!

More-Than-Most
06-14-2012, 06:07 PM
I agree with BDAWK....If your talking about domination and comparing it to others you have to factor in the opposition... Cains was amazing and its up there with everyone else but I give the edge to Kofi as well

americaspasttim
06-14-2012, 06:09 PM
One thing I forgot to add, until last night, they were ahead of the Royals, Jays, Diamondbacks, and Orioles in total hits, putting them into the top 15 in total hits. On a side note, if they are so horrible, why hasn't anyone else no hit them? By your logic they should be getting no hit every night...

I'm not saying what he did wasn't legit, I'm just saying it was far from the most dominant performance of our time.Agreed...

lol, please
06-14-2012, 06:10 PM
Let's not forget he's also the first pitcher to ever score a run in his own perfect game.

THINKBLUE15
06-14-2012, 07:20 PM
lol I didn't even know he threw a perfect game until today.

Cain is an amazing pitcher. Congrats to him. Very much overlooked at times. Just a filthy mother****er out there. Dominant.

Jeffy25
06-14-2012, 07:21 PM
If the Shelby Miller comparisons to Matt Cain come to life, I will be one very happy Cardinals fan :)

Public Enemy #1
06-14-2012, 07:33 PM
He had all of his pitches working. He was hitting his locations with ease and made a lot of the Astros line up look bad. He had it all going last night. It was one, if not the most dominant pitching performance I have ever witnessed.

Lakers + Giants
06-14-2012, 08:57 PM
lol I didn't even know he threw a perfect game until today.

Cain is an amazing pitcher. Congrats to him. Very much overlooked at times. Just a filthy mother****er out there. Dominant.

Coming from a dodger fan that means a lot.

T 980
06-14-2012, 08:57 PM
I think when it comes to this, Giants fans shouldn't really inject themselves into the conversation just because of the fact that we will automatically say "Yes, best perfect game ever!" (for the most part). I've never watched a no hitter/perfect game, but watching the highlight reel on the game last night, I could easily tell you that it had to be the most dominant pitching performance I've ever seen. Although, I've never watched highlight reels of any other perfects or no-no's so I have no room to talk.

Jeffy25
06-14-2012, 09:00 PM
I think when it comes to this, Giants fans shouldn't really inject themselves into the conversation just because of the fact that we will automatically say "Yes, best perfect game ever!" (for the most part). I've never watched a no hitter/perfect game, but watching the highlight reel on the game last night, I could easily tell you that it had to be the most dominant pitching performance I've ever seen. Although, I've never watched highlight reels of any other perfects or no-no's so I have no room to talk.

Yeah, I only remember watching three no-hitters from start to finish (although I did watch the Galaragga start).

Weaver and Santana this year, and Halladay's playoff no hitter.

I think Halladay's playoff game was the most dominating of those three that I can remember watching, Weaver's was close. A situation where the opposing lineup just had no chance.

d79cheese
06-14-2012, 10:51 PM
lol to most people on here saying koufax without probably seeing any footage of the game. i'm not gonna say who was most dominant, but other then Snyder's wall ball and Blanco's incredible catch, everything else was either a k, weak grounder, or Cain special (popups). Cain now has arguably the two best pitched games this season. Should be clear cut leader at this point for Cy Young and All Star Starter at this point...

Jeffy25
06-14-2012, 11:27 PM
lol to most people on here saying koufax without probably seeing any footage of the game. i'm not gonna say who was most dominant, but other then Snyder's wall ball and Blanco's incredible catch, everything else was either a k, weak grounder, or Cain special (popups). Cain now has arguably the two best pitched games this season. Should be clear cut leader at this point for Cy Young and All Star Starter at this point...

fwiw, he gave up 7 fly ball outs. 6 ground outs, 14 strike outs, one put out himself (a ground out)

His one-hitter on April 13th was almost as good as this game, but not quite.

Greinke btw, is your deserving cy young winner to this point

Dickey, Strasburg, Lynn, and Gio all deserve too.

James McDonald and Josh Johnson are dangerously close too.

sexicano31
06-14-2012, 11:28 PM
right....

Did you watch either games? His perfect game he gave up multiple hard hit balls and had a bunch of 3 ball counts. His no hitter he missed a perfect game because of one borderline call on a 3-2 count. In that game he kept hitters off balance the entire time

WOwolfOL
06-14-2012, 11:49 PM
Correct, but far more "dominant", yeah? I mean, if he gave up 3 runs, 6 hits, and struck out 20 then that would lower it a bit. But, Wood only gave up 1 hit, thanks a lot Kevin Orie. Otherwise, a perfect game it was.

Wood beaned a guy too, I think Biggio.

d79cheese
06-15-2012, 12:01 AM
fwiw, he gave up 7 fly ball outs. 6 ground outs, 14 strike outs, one put out himself (a ground out)

His one-hitter on April 13th was almost as good as this game, but not quite.

Greinke btw, is your deserving cy young winner to this point

Dickey, Strasburg, Lynn, and Gio all deserve too.

James McDonald and Josh Johnson are dangerously close too.

Greinke has been very good this year, but one huge thing that seperates them is Cain has 16 more innings pitched in the same amount of games started. In fact Cain leads the league in both batters faced and WHIP, something that hasn't been done in the NL since Greg Maddux in 94 (Halladay is the only other pitcher since then to accomplish that).


I won't even begin to try and say I know nearly as much as you Jeffy with statistics. But dig deeper into Cain's stats this year and you'll see that he has been the best pitcher in the NL.

Jeffy25
06-15-2012, 12:09 AM
I can believe it. I'm sure if more attention is paid, there will be things that will bring Cain's season to a better light :)

But a one hitter, and a perfect game only brings it out.

waveycrockett
06-15-2012, 01:20 PM
fwiw, he gave up 7 fly ball outs. 6 ground outs, 14 strike outs, one put out himself (a ground out)

His one-hitter on April 13th was almost as good as this game, but not quite.

Greinke btw, is your deserving cy young winner to this point

Dickey, Strasburg, Lynn, and Gio all deserve too.

James McDonald and Josh Johnson are dangerously close too.

I understand the peripherals are VERY important but when the season comes to a close ERA stands out #1 next to K's and WHIP

rocket
06-15-2012, 02:08 PM
Probably not, his defense helped him a lot, and he was playing the Astros.

GamerFTW
06-15-2012, 02:24 PM
Probably not, his defense helped him a lot, and he was playing the Astros.

If you've actually read anything in this thread you'd realize that's not a valid argument.

misterd
06-17-2012, 10:48 AM
Correct, but far more "dominant", yeah? I mean, if he gave up 3 runs, 6 hits, and struck out 20 then that would lower it a bit. But, Wood only gave up 1 hit, thanks a lot Kevin Orie. Otherwise, a perfect game it was.

"But besides that, she's a virgin."

misterd
06-17-2012, 10:55 AM
In figuring out whether the pitcher was more dominant or not the opposing team shouldn't much matter. People are confusing domination with the quality of the performance.

If I played Tiger Woods in the US Open, I guarantee it'd be his most dominating performance ever. Doesn't mean he played his best game.

misterd
06-17-2012, 10:57 AM
This. The most dominant performance of my lifetime was Kerry Wood's performance against the Astro's and it wasn't even a no-hitter.

But the question is about perfecet games specifically, not games in general.

Jeffy25
06-17-2012, 09:41 PM
In figuring out whether the pitcher was more dominant or not the opposing team shouldn't much matter. People are confusing domination with the quality of the performance.

If I played Tiger Woods in the US Open, I guarantee it'd be his most dominating performance ever. Doesn't mean he played his best game.

Great post :)

ESaady
06-17-2012, 10:16 PM
It's crazy that when Koufax threw the perfect game his counterpart threw a 1 hitter and the Dodgers scored on an error.

Gigantes4Life
06-18-2012, 12:58 AM
In figuring out whether the pitcher was more dominant or not the opposing team shouldn't much matter. People are confusing domination with the quality of the performance.

If I played Tiger Woods in the US Open, I guarantee it'd be his most dominating performance ever. Doesn't mean he played his best game.

I doubt that. You could beat Tiger. He's just going to have an off day.

nithanyo
06-18-2012, 01:37 AM
Does anyone realize it was the astros?

Jeffy25
06-18-2012, 01:45 AM
Does anyone realize it was the astros?

Doesn't matter, they are a pretty decent offensive team this year.