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View Full Version : Game 1 Was LeBron's First 30 Point Game In His 3 NBA Finals Appearances



MetroMan
06-13-2012, 01:00 AM
:speechless:

Just heard it on espn and I checked the box scores of his finals performances.


Amazing that this is Lebrons 3rd NBA Finals and his first 30 point game.
More amazing is that this was Durants first NBA final game and he scored 36.

ChitownBears22
06-13-2012, 01:08 AM
Omg gtfo lulz!!!!!

TheNumber37
06-13-2012, 01:18 AM
At the end of this series, KD will have more 30 point finals games and finals wins than Lebron.

310Casper
06-13-2012, 01:20 AM
Lebron, 3 total shots in the 4th quarter.

That's the only stat that matters now.

Lebron can keep all his individual accolades. Leave championship trophies to players like Jordan, Kobe and Soon to be Durant.

ChitownBears22
06-13-2012, 01:21 AM
Lebron, 3 total shots in the 4th quarter.

That's the only stat that matters now.

Wrong 6

DaSeba5
06-13-2012, 01:22 AM
Lebron, 3 total shots in the 4th quarter.

That's the only stat that matters now.

Lebron can keep all his individual accolades. Leave championship trophies to players like Jordan, Kobe and Soon to be Durant.

Just by memory alone I know he had more than 3 shots.

Sssmush
06-13-2012, 01:23 AM
Lebron is an awesome player. I don't see why people are always looking for ways to downgrade him, or put him on a lower pedestal.

Lebron is a super-human physical specimen. Deal with it.

LoveMeOrHateMe
06-13-2012, 01:24 AM
Lebron the best in the league? Get outta here!

He'll never be Jordan or Kobe he'll be lucky to catch Durant after this year

TheWhiteMamba
06-13-2012, 01:25 AM
A career 2-9 record in the finals as well.

ChitownBears22
06-13-2012, 01:25 AM
Lebron the best in the league? Get outta here!

He'll never be Jordan or Kobe he'll be lucky to catch Durant after this year

You really dont understand the game of basketball then. And it is simple as that.

JordansBulls
06-13-2012, 01:32 AM
It's his first game of 25 or more as well.

LoveMeOrHateMe
06-13-2012, 01:44 AM
You really dont understand the game of basketball then. And it is simple as that.



Oh really cause I'm sure ur a basketball genius? There is no denying Lebron is great but he just chokes like hell when it matters! He gets criticized because he deserves it

STL Don
06-13-2012, 01:45 AM
Means nothing towards the fact that there down 0-1.
He also shot very poorly in the 4th quarter, that cannot happen again if he expects to earn his 1st ring.

macc
06-13-2012, 01:51 AM
I'm only doing this because people always do the comparisons.

Jordan at age 27 - 0 finals appearances

Lebron at age 27 - 3 finals appaearances



Lebron has time. I know people love to compare him to Jorand (which isn't fair). It's not right to compare somone to somone else's career.

I'm rooting for OKC in this series but it's annoying how people bash Lebron over everything. I've never seen somone so down graded for being the best in the league.

hail2skins4life
06-13-2012, 01:57 AM
lol last finals lebron only averaged like 18 pts a game. thats like a 2nd or 3rd option guy

LoveMeOrHateMe
06-13-2012, 02:02 AM
I'm only doing this because people always do the comparisons.

Jordan at age 27 - 0 finals appearances

Lebron at age 27 - 3 finals appaearances



Lebron has time. I know people love to compare him to Jorand (which isn't fair). It's not right to compare somone to somone else's career.

I'm rooting for OKC in this series but it's annoying how people bash Lebron over everything. I've never seen somone so down graded for being the best in the league.


Jordan went to college Lebron didn't

DaSeba5
06-13-2012, 02:07 AM
Dear LeBron, attack the basket and score in the post. Stop taking stupid 3 pointers and jump shots. You're a big guy. Why aren't you attacking?

BALLER R
06-13-2012, 02:08 AM
I'm only doing this because people always do the comparisons.

Jordan at age 27 - 0 finals appearances

Lebron at age 27 - 3 finals appaearances



Lebron has time. I know people love to compare him to Jorand (which isn't fair). It's not right to compare somone to somone else's career.

I'm rooting for OKC in this series but it's annoying how people bash Lebron over everything. I've never seen somone so down graded for being the best in the league.

Lebron at 27 = 9th year in the league 3 MVP's

Jordan at 30 = 9th year in the league 2 mvp, 3 rings and 3 Finals MVP.

Lebron was 18 when he came into the league
Jordan was 21.

I hate when lebron fans try to use that comparison but don't know all the facts

MetroMan
06-13-2012, 02:13 AM
Lebron at 27 = 9th year in the league 3 MVP's

Jordan at 30 = 9th year in the league 2 mvp, 3 rings and 3 Finals MVP.

Lebron was 18 when he came into the league
Jordan was 21.

I hate when lebron fans try to use that comparison but don't know all the facts

:clap:
:hi5:

ChitownBears22
06-13-2012, 02:15 AM
Lebron at 27 = 9th year in the league 3 MVP's

Jordan at 30 = 9th year in the league 2 mvp, 3 rings and 3 Finals MVP.

Lebron was 18 when he came into the league
Jordan was 21.

I hate when lebron fans try to use that comparison but don't know all the facts

I dont understand the comparisons between the two at all. completely different types of players. Thats like me comparing Steve Nash to Dwight.
Makes no sense. Obviously Nash is the better post player and Dwight is a natural passer....wait a second.

MetroMan
06-13-2012, 02:17 AM
I dont understand the comparisons between the two at all. completely different types of players. Thats like me comparing Steve Nash to Dwight.
Makes no sense. Obviously Nash is the better post player and Dwight is a natural passer....wait a second.

On countless occasions had espn said lebron is better than jordan. For god sake they call him the "King" "The Chosen One". With the hoopla like this you gotta compare man.

ChitownBears22
06-13-2012, 02:21 AM
On countless occasions had espn said lebron is better than jordan. For god sake they call him the "King" "The Chosen One". With the hoopla like this you gotta compare man.

ESPN also had 75% coverage of Tebow and people defending him as a legit QB. ESPN to me is shock sports news. Pretty much Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Bill Maher, or any other shock political/news people.

He is great basketball player. All pro athletes that I know all have a cockiness about them, it gives them that edge to do better.

BALLER R
06-13-2012, 02:22 AM
Honestly I think it's mostly ESPN's fault why Lebron is so disliked.

DaSeba5
06-13-2012, 02:22 AM
ESPN also had 75% coverage of Tebow and people defending him as a legit QB. ESPN to me is shock sports news. Pretty much Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Bill Maher, or any other shock political/news people.

He is great basketball player. All pro athletes that I know all have a cockiness about them, it gives them that edge to do better.

I agree. They only care for ratings. Poor journalists. The only time I pay attention to ESPN is when a game is on.

DaSeba5
06-13-2012, 02:23 AM
Honestly I think it's mostly ESPN's fault why Lebron is so disliked.

It's exactly why. It's not like LeBron goes around being a douche to people and bragging on Twitter. He really isn't as bad as people make him out to be. People just go by what they see in the media.

ChitownBears22
06-13-2012, 02:24 AM
I agree. They only care for ratings. Poor journalists. The only time I pay attention to ESPN is when a game is on.

Half the time I have it on mute because I usually dont like the commentators. Jaws doing MNF pisses me off.

MetroMan
06-13-2012, 02:26 AM
Honestly I think it's mostly ESPN's fault why Lebron is so disliked.

In certain aspects, yes, ESPN is to blame..... BUT C'mon man, Lebron ruined himself with the 5-6-7 ring thing... THAN when he lost to the mavs to say that I will go back to my nice life and you wake up in your bad life...some crap along those lines

DaSeba5
06-13-2012, 02:26 AM
Half the time I have it on mute because I usually dont like the commentators. Jaws doing MNF pisses me off.

Oh I know. It's terrible.

ChitownBears22
06-13-2012, 02:28 AM
In certain aspects, yes, ESPN is to blame..... BUT C'mon man, Lebron ruined himself with the 5-6-7 ring thing... THAN when he lost to the mavs to say that I will go back to my nice life and you wake up in your bad life...some crap along those lines

5-6-7 rings was said in what was supposed to be in a private event for the fans. ESPN shoved it down everyones throat and tried to convey it as LeBron being disrepectful of every team in the league. He was trying to hype up the fanbase and get them behind this experiment. He has even said publicly afterwards that it was a joke and he regrets the comment. ESPN doesn't show that part of the story.

BALLER R
06-13-2012, 02:33 AM
Be honest it is entertaining to see him lose isn't it?

ChitownBears22
06-13-2012, 02:34 AM
Be honest it is entertaining to see him lose isn't it?

Not really. Especially when he plays well and then get beat on for not doing more. It bothers me how the media can be cruel like that.

DaSeba5
06-13-2012, 02:35 AM
Be honest it is entertaining to see him lose isn't it?

Not as a Heat fan. I don't care if LeBron gets a ring, I only root for him because he's on the Heat. I could care less if Joel Anthony was the Finals MVP as long as the Heat won.

If I wasn't a Heat fan, I'd be neutral with LeBron and wouldn't care.

Chronz
06-13-2012, 02:39 AM
Lebron at 27 = 9th year in the league 3 MVP's

Jordan at 30 = 9th year in the league 2 mvp, 3 rings and 3 Finals MVP.

Lebron was 18 when he came into the league
Jordan was 21.

I hate when lebron fans try to use that comparison but don't know all the facts

Him being NBA ready before MJ doesnt help your argument.

Avenged
06-13-2012, 02:40 AM
With many more to come I presume.

amos1er
06-13-2012, 02:56 AM
Him being NBA ready before MJ doesnt help your argument.

Jordan 6/6 in the finals

Kobe 5/7 in the finals

Lebron...soon to be 0/3 in the finals

ChitownBears22
06-13-2012, 02:58 AM
Jordan 6/6 in the finals

Kobe 5/7 in the finals

Lebron...soon to be 0/3 in the finals

Amos1er- bench player in YMCA ball. He is the greatest know authority in sports.

The_Jamal
06-13-2012, 03:20 AM
Eventually, people will figure out that basketball is a team sport.

ChitownBears22
06-13-2012, 03:22 AM
Eventually, people will figure out that basketball is a team sport.

Not until ESPN stops perpetuating the opposite. Clutch gene, 4th qtr stats, ppg statistics. All pointless when your team can't get you to the position to win.

DaSeba5
06-13-2012, 03:26 AM
Eventually, people will figure out that basketball is a team sport.

Nope you have to play hero ball in order to be good. Instead of passing to an open teammate for the last shot, it's better to shoot with 3 guys defending you like Kobe.

fadahway
06-13-2012, 03:36 AM
Lebron, 3 total shots in the 4th quarter.

That's the only stat that matters now.

Lebron can keep all his individual accolades. Leave championship trophies to players like Jordan, Kobe and Soon to be Durant.

R you serious?? with a lebron sig THE FUTURE

2Faced:facepalm:

NBAFan2012
06-13-2012, 03:49 AM
Lebron, 3 total shots in the 4th quarter.

That's the only stat that matters now.

Lebron can keep all his individual accolades. Leave championship trophies to players like Jordan, Kobe and Soon to be Durant.

I think people were hoping for an epic back and forth between Lebron and Durant. Durant is not afraid to fail and tries to take over with jumpers and his offensive repertoire in the 4th, Lebron wont even try.

macc
06-13-2012, 03:51 AM
Lebron at 27 = 9th year in the league 3 MVP's

Jordan at 30 = 9th year in the league 2 mvp, 3 rings and 3 Finals MVP.

Lebron was 18 when he came into the league
Jordan was 21.

I hate when lebron fans try to use that comparison but don't know all the facts



First off I'm not a Lebron fan. Secondly I wasn't making the comparison to say who was better at that age. If you actually read my post. The "only" point I was trying to make as I stated was that Lebron has time. Period......He is only 27, he has plenty of years to fulfil his legacy.

I hate it when people try to diss you by quoting you but have no idea what original point you were trying to make.

Chronz
06-13-2012, 04:11 AM
Jordan 6/6 in the finals

Kobe 5/7 in the finals

Lebron...soon to be 0/3 in the finals

Still better to lose in the Finals than lose beforehand, particularly when he makes the Finals with the team he had in Cleveland.

Philapsychosis
06-13-2012, 05:01 AM
I hate Lebron, but people on here just seem desperate to try to point out everything. People on here all point to Jordan, but I wonder how many actually watched him play, a lot of you seem like 18-22 yr old kids with no recollection. I remember games where Jordan was straight dogging it the whole game, BUT HIS TEAM kept him in it to give him the chance to make that big shot, which he often did. No one shows you the game winners he missed, or the games that were out of reach for even Jordan.

Lebron is a great athelete, without a doubt the best in the league right now, who just hasn't won anything yet. Most of you seem like that smug kid who used to get their *** beat for always whining about something. There's like 6 threads anytime Lebron does anything, Shut up, we get it. His time will undoubtedly come.

Even though I think it would be funny if this whole big 3 thing failed miserably. Finger pointing every little thing just makes you sound like a desperate loser

KB-Pau-DH2012
06-13-2012, 05:35 AM
Still better to lose in the Finals than lose beforehand, particularly when he makes the Finals with the team he had in Cleveland.

I always believed in the notion that once you make the finals, once you make the big dance....JUST WIN IT DAMMIT! You did so much to get there, and so if you were destined to get there, just finish the job.

That's why personally, as a fan, I've always been and still am mad about the Lakers 2 finals losses in 04 and 08. I don't care if they were undermatched or not, once you get there, you reach down and show that intestinal fortitude and go all out for those final 4-7 games and bring home the trophy.

If you can't do that and be a teaser the whole time, I might as well would like to see you lose in the 2nd rd or conference finals.


Seeing your team lose in the finals is just so devastating. You know that saying: SECOND PLACE JUST MEANS YOU'RE THE FIRST LOSER!

Evolution23
06-13-2012, 06:19 AM
Nope you have to play hero ball in order to be good. Instead of passing to an open teammate for the last shot, it's better to shoot with 3 guys defending you like Kobe.

Hey, people only remember the ones you make, so keep chucking. BTW what's Kobe's Fg% in clutch situations? Well below average if I remember correctly.

Evolution23
06-13-2012, 06:22 AM
I always believed in the notion that once you make the finals, once you make the big dance....JUST WIN IT DAMMIT! You did so much to get there, and so if you were destined to get there, just finish the job.

That's why personally, as a fan, I've always been and still am mad about the Lakers 2 finals losses in 04 and 08. I don't care if they were undermatched or not, once you get there, you reach down and show that intestinal fortitude and go all out for those final 4-7 games and bring home the trophy.

If you can't do that and be a teaser the whole time, I might as well would like to see you lose in the 2nd rd or conference finals.


Seeing your team lose in the finals is just so devastating. You know that saying: SECOND PLACE JUST MEANS YOU'RE THE FIRST LOSER!

I hear what you are saying about losing in the finals, but some times trying your hardest just isn't enough if the opposing team has better talent and/or chemistry.

Patman
06-13-2012, 06:24 AM
I always believed in the notion that once you make the finals, once you make the big dance....JUST WIN IT DAMMIT! You did so much to get there, and so if you were destined to get there, just finish the job.

That's why personally, as a fan, I've always been and still am mad about the Lakers 2 finals losses in 04 and 08. I don't care if they were undermatched or not, once you get there, you reach down and show that intestinal fortitude and go all out for those final 4-7 games and bring home the trophy.

If you can't do that and be a teaser the whole time, I might as well would like to see you lose in the 2nd rd or conference finals.


Seeing your team lose in the finals is just so devastating. You know that saying: SECOND PLACE JUST MEANS YOU'RE THE FIRST LOSER!


That just doesn't help if you face a better Team in the Finals that also gives it all. Honestly you can blast players for individual performances in the Finals and playoffs, but Series losses are on the Team.

last stand
06-13-2012, 06:29 AM
Nope you have to play hero ball in order to be good. Instead of passing to an open teammate for the last shot, it's better to shoot with 3 guys defending you like Kobe.

Seemed to work just fine for Kobe

MagicBucsSox
06-13-2012, 06:32 AM
Lebron, 3 total shots in the 4th quarter.

That's the only stat that matters now.

Lebron can keep all his individual accolades. Leave championship trophies to players like Jordan, Kobe and Soon to be Durant.

I love how Westbrook's performance is swept under a rug. Nearly a triple D, had a better game1 over durant

last stand
06-13-2012, 06:33 AM
Hey, people only remember the ones you make, so keep chucking. BTW what's Kobe's Fg% in clutch situations? Well below average if I remember correctly.

He also takes more of them than anyone. He leads all time in game winners with 37

If you only take 10 and make 5 you shoot 50 percent. If you take 70 and make 30 all of a sudden your percentage falls.

But who's the better clutch player. Percentages are a lie like most statistics. Nene used to shoot 60% and Carmelo would shoot around 46. Doesn't mean I want nene shooting it

Oldmantrash
06-13-2012, 07:56 AM
Lebron does have time to prove he is the greatest, but until he does that, he can't even be considered that.

No one is ever saying Lebron sucks, but he can't be considered even close to Jordan until he wins, or at least dominates in the clutch.

The guy can get to the basket whenever he wants, yet doesn't at the end, he's not mentally strong like Jordan, Kobe, many others.
When he wins, all you Lebron guys can say " I told you so" until then, you shouldn;t say anything.

fenixtxfan11
06-13-2012, 08:21 AM
LeBron sucks, Heat lose this series and Lebron's hairline recedes another 2-3cm.

theheatles
06-13-2012, 08:34 AM
I'm only doing this because people always do the comparisons.

Jordan at age 27 - 0 finals appearances

Lebron at age 27 - 3 finals appaearances



Lebron has time. I know people love to compare him to Jorand (which isn't fair). It's not right to compare somone to somone else's career.

I'm rooting for OKC in this series but it's annoying how people bash Lebron over everything. I've never seen somone so down graded for being the best in the league.

I wish Jordan played during the internet and twitter era, his "greatness" would be so diminished because he wouldn't be able to deal with all this and his truer personality would of shown through and espn wouldn't be able to pass him off as the leagues darling

YEDN90
06-13-2012, 08:48 AM
5-6-7 rings was said in what was supposed to be in a private event for the fans. ESPN shoved it down everyones throat and tried to convey it as LeBron being disrepectful of every team in the league. He was trying to hype up the fanbase and get them behind this experiment. He has even said publicly afterwards that it was a joke and he regrets the comment. ESPN doesn't show that part of the story.

What else was he going to say? "Yeah I meant it, every team should get on their knees now!"?

Of course he was going to say it was a joke, the media already has a field day with the guy.

He's an arrogant, cocky idiot who is continually disrespectful. From the decision/stupid YES WE DID convention to mocking Dirk to calling the reporter/question ******** to his "you'll all go back to your regular lives" comments.

No wonder he's consistently bashed.

metsbulls1025
06-13-2012, 08:55 AM
I wish Jordan played during the internet and twitter era, his "greatness" would be so diminished because he wouldn't be able to deal with all this and his truer personality would of shown through and espn wouldn't be able to pass him off as the leagues darling

The only difference is he would have gotten the job done.

effen5
06-13-2012, 09:01 AM
The only difference is he would have gotten the job done.

I mean he and Kobe has the same attitude and Kobe handled most of it fine except the whole rape thing :laugh:

effen5
06-13-2012, 09:04 AM
First off I'm not a Lebron fan. Secondly I wasn't making the comparison to say who was better at that age. If you actually read my post. The "only" point I was trying to make as I stated was that Lebron has time. Period......He is only 27, he has plenty of years to fulfil his legacy.

I hate it when people try to diss you by quoting you but have no idea what original point you were trying to make.


Actually he will have less years because his body has gone through the rigorous schedule of the nba right off the bat. He really needs to develop some kind of jump shot or post up game if he wants to stay relevant like Kobe because the way he's playing, he won't last too long.

JordansBulls
06-13-2012, 09:04 AM
Him being NBA ready before MJ doesnt help your argument.

Then why should age matter? Especially when you have 3 MVP's. It is just an excuse to use when you have that many MVP's and been in the league that long to say he should not have won yet.


That's not downgrading him at all it is making an excuse for why he hasn't succeeded yet because you are using age. If he wasn't ready for the NBA then he shouldn't had come into the league. It is like someone going to college at 16 and then if they don't do as well in a class like saying it is because they aren't as old yet when in college no one judges you on age, but rather how you perform.

Wade at 24 dominated and won a title as the man and Durant may or may not do so at 23 years old and neither of them have won league mvp's.

JordansBulls
06-13-2012, 09:06 AM
i wish jordan played during the internet and twitter era, his "greatness" would be so diminished because he wouldn't be able to deal with all this and his truer personality would of shown through and espn wouldn't be able to pass him off as the leagues darling

fyi



druggas wrote:
Jordan didn't have his welfare mom buy him a hummer.......check

jordan didn't name himself, king james............................check

jordan has no tattoo declaring himself, chosen one..........check

jordan didn't proclaim to bring home a championship........check

jordan didn't leave his home town team..........................check

jordan didn't dance on the sidelines..............................check

jordan didn't run to his competition and join their team...check

jordan didn't tell the media not 1 not 2 not 3..................check

why would we tear him down? He didn't set himself on a pedestal and make silly statements about players and fans. And he didn't shrink on the biggest stage.

BobbyHillSwag
06-13-2012, 10:55 AM
Durant is so wavy based, every time he shoots you know he's makin the shot durant is so wavy based yeeaaaaa, if you can see he wavy durant is wavy based yeeaaaaa yeeeaaaa yeaaaaaa yeeaaaaaa

RaiderLakersA's
06-13-2012, 11:17 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that LeBron played well enough for the Heat to win. But as with EVERY superstar, he needs the other guys to step up.

The biggest myth in the NBA -- and one of the many reasons why I really can't stand discussing "The Jordan Legacy" -- is that far too many fans don't give nearly enough credit to the other 4 players on the floor. Championships are won and lost because of those guys.

Hawkeye15
06-13-2012, 11:24 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that LeBron played well enough for the Heat to win. But as with EVERY superstar, he needs the other guys to step up.

The biggest myth in the NBA -- and one of the many reasons why I really can't stand discussing "The Jordan Legacy" -- is that far too many fans don't give nearly enough credit to the other 4 players on the floor. Championships are won and lost because of those guys.

Exactly right.

macc
06-13-2012, 11:43 AM
Actually he will have less years because his body has gone through the rigorous schedule of the nba right off the bat. He really needs to develop some kind of jump shot or post up game if he wants to stay relevant like Kobe because the way he's playing, he won't last too long.



And you're basing that off of what? It's an assumption, if you take care of your body then you can last a long time. See KG/Nash.

BobbyHillSwag
06-13-2012, 11:54 AM
damn it makes you think about how ready iverson was in his first game in the finals. droppin 48, makes that game that much more amazing

Loro2128
06-13-2012, 12:01 PM
imo Lebron did what he normally has been doin this year throughout the playoffs and is not gonna have historic games to get a win too often like everyone seems to expect but if you watched the first half when they had a nice lead their role players were all hitting shots and Wade struggled once again with Lebron doin his part. Defense was great and they forced a lot of turnovers but didnt continue that in the second half defense was no good in the second have bad rebounding and they need the numbers from Wade more like 25 5 5 with a better shooting percentage and need to assult the rim more stop taking long jumpshots i know bosh has been makin his way back but i think he looks healthy enough to give his 18 and 8 numbers with that they could have stole game one but they still have 3 more possible games in OkC that they need to win 1 of the 3 at least saying they take care of there home court

KnicksorBust
06-13-2012, 01:25 PM
Can you imagine playing in the NBA Finals, scoring 30 points, grabbing 9 rebounds, and having people think you played a terrible game? What a life.

basketfan4life
06-13-2012, 01:27 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that LeBron played well enough for the Heat to win. But as with EVERY superstar, he needs the other guys to step up.

The biggest myth in the NBA -- and one of the many reasons why I really can't stand discussing "The Jordan Legacy" -- is that far too many fans don't give nearly enough credit to the other 4 players on the floor. Championships are won and lost because of those guys.

Actually, i tought he got enough help on the offensive end, some role players stepped up. They just couldn't stop OKC.

nickdymez
06-13-2012, 01:34 PM
I'm only doing this because people always do the comparisons.

Jordan at age 27 - 0 finals appearances

Lebron at age 27 - 3 finals appaearances



Lebron has time. I know people love to compare him to Jorand (which isn't fair). It's not right to compare somone to somone else's career.

I'm rooting for OKC in this series but it's annoying how people bash Lebron over everything. I've never seen somone so down graded for being the best in the league.

Jordan went to College, Lebron didnt

torocan
06-13-2012, 01:37 PM
Lebron played a good game.

Durant was just better.

It's the tragedy of being overshadowed. He was outscored and his team lost, so it won't really be remembered as the strong offensive performance that it was.

As for Miami, they're just out-gunned. Miami is used to being the fastest and most athletic team on the floor. Unfortunately for them, OKC is more than a match for them in the speed and athleticism department.

24-4 points in transition.

OKC played the game that Miami wished they had played.

yaswaggin
06-13-2012, 03:24 PM
If Wade or the role players didn't play like crap the second half, this topc wouldn't even happen

BobbyHillSwag
06-13-2012, 03:30 PM
if the role players werent lights out in the first half this topic would still be discussed. the role players dont even see the ball in the second half how can you blame them? lol at anyone blaming bosh, he barely gets any touches.

Chronz
06-13-2012, 03:38 PM
Jordan went to College, Lebron didnt

Bron was NBA ready, MJ wasnt. Thats suppose to help him somehow?

Chronz
06-13-2012, 03:42 PM
Then why should age matter?
We are comparing chapters of their careers, what Bron accomplished as a teen is something few have ever done, those years only enhance his legacy, not detract from it.


That's not downgrading him at all it is making an excuse for why he hasn't succeeded yet because you are using age. If he wasn't ready for the NBA then he shouldn't had come into the league. It is like someone going to college at 16 and then if they don't do as well in a class like saying it is because they aren't as old yet when in college no one judges you on age, but rather how you perform.

Nobody said he wasnt ready for the NBA, in fact what I did say was he was NBA ready BEFORE MJ. Lets use your analogy, what if that 16 year old is getting further in his class than someone older than him?


Wade at 24 dominated and won a title as the man and Durant may or may not do so at 23 years old and neither of them have won league mvp's.

Thats because they had less of an argument for that MVP.

LAKERS4LIFE!!
06-13-2012, 03:44 PM
And you're basing that off of what? It's an assumption, if you take care of your body then you can last a long time. See KG/Nash.

You just proved his point more since Nash is one of the greatest shooters of all time and you can't compare Lebron to KG, although they are both from high school, it's much more easier for a big to stay relevant in the league. Lebron NEEDS to gain a consistent jump shot or else once his athleticism goes away he won't be able to drive at will/get fouled and everyone knows that once Lebron starts shooting jumpshots, things don't go too well.

Chronz
06-13-2012, 03:47 PM
I always believed in the notion that once you make the finals, once you make the big dance....JUST WIN IT DAMMIT! You did so much to get there, and so if you were destined to get there, just finish the job.
Thats your prerogative, I will always believe its better to lose late than lose early and in a comparison against someone getting to the Finals at a younger age can be as good of an accomplishment if not greater than losing beforehand. Not always mind you, but its certainly more complex than suggesting once you get to the Finals you should win.


That's why personally, as a fan, I've always been and still am mad about the Lakers 2 finals losses in 04 and 08. I don't care if they were undermatched or not, once you get there, you reach down and show that intestinal fortitude and go all out for those final 4-7 games and bring home the trophy.

The problem is the other team is doing the same thing, so we're back to square one.


If you can't do that and be a teaser the whole time, I might as well would like to see you lose in the 2nd rd or conference finals.

That makes no sense to me, its better to be on the cusp of victory than not even come close. Of course how you play and the load you carried to get there should never be lost. Im just saying its not an easy comparison to make.


Seeing your team lose in the finals is just so devastating. You know that saying: SECOND PLACE JUST MEANS YOU'RE THE FIRST LOSER!
That doesnt apply here, the first losers are the guys that get bounced in R1.

RaiderLakersA's
06-13-2012, 03:50 PM
Actually, i tought he got enough help on the offensive end, some role players stepped up. They just couldn't stop OKC.

By stepping up, I wasn't referring to just the offensive side of the ball. Defensively you need playmakers. Especially in the Finals. I mean at one point Van Gundy was praising Fisher for his defensive energy. Yeah, Old Man Fisher. If Fish is still putting in work and being acknowledged, no one, Heat or Thunder, has an excuse not to contribute in a meangingful way. The Heat role players will figure it out, but for their sakes, let's hope it's this year in this series and not next year.

akagiredsuns
06-13-2012, 03:53 PM
I'm only doing this because people always do the comparisons.

Jordan at age 27 - 0 finals appearances

Lebron at age 27 - 3 finals appaearances



Lebron has time. I know people love to compare him to Jorand (which isn't fair). It's not right to compare somone to somone else's career.

I'm rooting for OKC in this series but it's annoying how people bash Lebron over everything. I've never seen somone so down graded for being the best in the league.


Jordan career record in NBA Finals: 24-11

LeBron career record in NBA Finals: 2-9

Pretty lame stat you put up about Jordan. The Bulls didn't become a championship ready team until 6 years after he was drafted when they were swept by DET and look what happened the following year. LeBron has been to two NBA Finals in a row with 2 superstars (Bosh, Wade) beside him. Please stop while you're behind. :facepalm:

Loro2128
06-13-2012, 03:54 PM
You just proved his point more since Nash is one of the greatest shooters of all time and you can't compare Lebron to KG, although they are both from high school, it's much more easier for a big to stay relevant in the league. Lebron NEEDS to gain a consistent jump shot or else once his athleticism goes away he won't be able to drive at will/get fouled and everyone knows that once Lebron starts shooting jumpshots, things don't go too well.

Lebrons jumper has been getting better throughout his career his post game is still a work in progress and he has a good basketball mind he should last for many more years to come to compare him to kg is hard but he can learn to have more of a finesse game like kg as long as he can hit jump shots at a higher rate

akagiredsuns
06-13-2012, 03:58 PM
It took LeBron 11 Finals games to drop 30? And there are people calling him a superstar? :laugh2: Yea 2 FGs in the 4th quarter (AGAIN) showed his inability to be a closer/finisher, the one thing that could put him up there with the greats, unlike Durant who was a beast in the 4th and it was only his 1st game. :cheers: LeBron is a great 3 quarter player, but doesn't get it done when it counts most. And that's what's keeping him from being great. At the end of his career, Top 15 at best.

khaleesi
06-13-2012, 04:31 PM
And just like last year he was AT BEST the second best player on the court.

Tim
Dirk
KD
2013????

khaleesi
06-13-2012, 04:32 PM
Lebrons jumper has been getting better throughout his career his post game is still a work in progress and he has a good basketball mind he should last for many more years to come to compare him to kg is hard but he can learn to have more of a finesse game like kg as long as he can hit jump shots at a higher rate

After 9 years you'd think it would be a little more than "work in progress."

khaleesi
06-13-2012, 04:34 PM
When LeBron said "not 2, not 3, not 4" what he meant was Finals' flame outs.

KD is KING.

Loro2128
06-13-2012, 05:02 PM
After 9 years you'd think it would be a little more than "work in progress."
yes you would i agree with that but its better late than never he finally put in some commitment to playin more post and a result of it was he had arguably one of the best seasons he has played 9 years and has gotten better just about every year

BALLER R
06-13-2012, 05:52 PM
When are we gonna stop with this whole "He needs more help crap". The reason why he's struggling to win a ring is because he doesn't want to work hard for anything. yes he can score 30 points but those 30 points weren't scored when it mattered. Durant can be gone the whole game but when his team needs a basket he gets it going and not settling for jumpers.

amos1er
06-13-2012, 06:25 PM
Still better to lose in the Finals than lose beforehand, particularly when he makes the Finals with the team he had in Cleveland.

Lets also mention that while the team he made it with in Cleveland was pretty much garbage, so was the competition that he faced to get there. I would go as far as to say that it was the easiest road to the finals in NBA history. I spite you to find a team that had an easier road. I only bring this up because you bring up how bad his team was without conveniently mentioning the fact that the competition he faced was equally as bad.

Round 1: A depleted Wizards team (41 wins) minus their two best players Arenas and Buttler...both All-Stars that year.

Round 2: An washed up Nets team (41 wins) ravaged by injuries and no starting center in Krstic who was a the time one of the better centers in the NBA.

Round 3: A past their prime Detriot team (53 wins...pretty sad for a 1 seed) minus their starting center and former DPOY Ben Wallace. A few players after that series admitted to serious problems with coach Saunders and also stated that due to those issues they quit on their coach half way through that series.

Chronz
06-13-2012, 06:41 PM
Lets also mention that while the team he made it with in Cleveland was pretty much garbage, so was the competition that he faced to get there. I would go as far as to say that it was the easiest road to the finals in NBA history. I spite you to find a team that had an easier road.
What do you mean? He still had to beat a superior team to his in a fashion we have never seen before from anyone. And your request is not that hard of a challenge, I mean when you use the word history you better know your history, Im not going to mention the old eras because I dont think you meant to go that far back but again I will take you to your own teams history (which for some reason your not too aware about), the Showtime Lakers were regularly making the Finals with a cupcake schedule. The West was just as weak, the real difference was that the Lakers were LOADED.

You tell me whats harder, having to go through a sub.500 team, a 43 win team and then a .500 team all while you have a FAR superior team or having to beat a team better than you just to make the Finals? Lakers had several years where they had to beat bums.



I only bring this up because you bring up how bad his team was without conveniently mentioning the fact that the competition he faced was equally as bad.

When I speak about these things Im speaking relative to their eras. His bad team was still worse than the best team in his conference. Thats hardly the easiest road traveled.

nickdymez
06-13-2012, 06:59 PM
Bron was NBA ready, MJ wasnt. Thats suppose to help him somehow?

He mentioned age

amos1er
06-13-2012, 07:08 PM
What do you mean? He still had to beat a superior team to his in a fashion we have never seen before from anyone. And your request is not that hard of a challenge, I mean when you use the word history you better know your history, Im not going to mention the old eras because I dont think you meant to go that far back but again I will take you to your own teams history (which for some reason your not too aware about), the Showtime Lakers were regularly making the Finals with a cupcake schedule. The West was just as weak, the real difference was that the Lakers were LOADED.

No, the real difference is that people actually acknowledge that their schedule was cake. People who always bring up what a "miracle" is was that Lebron took a "talentless" team to the finals always seem to not mention that his competition was very weak. He cake walked to the EFC and while he did beat a team with a slightly better record than his in the regular season (eastern conference was a complete joke that year) it was more of a collapse on the Pistons part, than a marvelous exploit on Lebrons part. Detroit was up 2-0 on the Cavs and after that they imploded on themselves due to coaching and lockeroom issues which are well documented. Rasheed Wallace even admitted that the team quit on Saunders half way through that series. In Lebron's "miracle game 5" the only big man they had available to play center was Antonio Mcdyess at 6'9 who had fouled out of the game before OT and Rasheed Wallace who was also only 6/9 and was in serious foul trouble. Combo all those front court issues with a team that quit on their coach and all of the sudden his run it not so amazing. One could assess that Lebron had some lucky breaks fall his way rather than him ascending to some superman like state and carrying his team against insurmountable odds. Its not anything like the LA Kings run this year where an 8 seed beat all of the best teams in the league. Now that was close to a miracle and should be celebrated as such...not Lebron's 2007 finals run where he managed to beat one team that had 3 more regular seasons wins in perhaps the weakest eastern conference of all time.


You tell me whats harder, having to go through a sub.500 team, a 43 win team and then a .500 team all while you have a FAR superior team or having to beat a team better than you just to make the Finals? Lakers had several years where they had to beat bums.

Again, the only difference is that no one was acting like the Lakers pulled off some sort of miracle during that run based on their conference run to the finals. Greatness is all relative to your competition, and what the Lakers did in 2001 is far more impressive than what Lebron did in 2007. I do give Lebron credit for that 2007 finals run, but I strongly feel that his fans overrate that run and falsely crowned him a king likewise.


When I speak about these things Im speaking relative to their eras. His bad team was still worse than the best team in his conference. Thats hardly the easiest road traveled.

Again, it was a cake walk to the ECF and a minor struggle against a team that imploded on themselves with only 3 more regular season wins in perhaps the weakest Eastern Conference of all time.

Chronz
06-13-2012, 07:08 PM
He mentioned age

Yes he did, being NBA ready at a younger age is a plus to anyones career.

valade16
06-13-2012, 07:27 PM
Yes he did, being NBA ready at a younger age is a plus to anyones career.

Doesn't change the fact that at this point in their NBA Careers MJ already had 2 Championships...

And I hope your not implying that Jordan was somehow not ready to go to the NBA during his college years. ACC Freshman of the year, NCAA All-American Sophmore and Junior years, Naismith and Wooden Player of the year awards as a Junior, and he won a a National Championship hitting the game winning shot.

His 1st year in the league he averaged 28 PPG. To even suggest he was somehow not NBA ready during that time is simply laughable...

nickdymez
06-13-2012, 07:31 PM
Yes he did, being NBA ready at a younger age is a plus to anyones career.

stop trying to pick fights. No one said anything about being NBA ready. He simply mentioned age. A better comparison from him would have been kobe.

netsgiantsyanks
06-13-2012, 07:53 PM
i hate what this lebron ******** has turned into, he can have 35-15-15 game and people will still blame him for the heat not playing legendary level. he left cleveland and put it on espn, not the best of ideas but **** happens. the only people that should be remotely angry are cleveland fans, a good majority of other fans that **** on him are mad because he didn't join their team(i.e. some knick fans). the guy's a animal, but he's not ****ing perfect. he doesn't make a game winning shot over 3 defenders from like 30 feet away and all of a sudden he's not the best player in the nba, he's a phony, he'll never live up to jordan's legacy. let him be lebron james, let him do him.

Bruno
06-13-2012, 07:59 PM
It's his first game of 25 or more as well.

Are you kidding me?

effen5
06-13-2012, 08:06 PM
You just proved his point more since Nash is one of the greatest shooters of all time and you can't compare Lebron to KG, although they are both from high school, it's much more easier for a big to stay relevant in the league. Lebron NEEDS to gain a consistent jump shot or else once his athleticism goes away he won't be able to drive at will/get fouled and everyone knows that once Lebron starts shooting jumpshots, things don't go too well.

Thanks buddy :)

valade16
06-13-2012, 08:11 PM
i hate what this lebron ******** has turned into, he can have 35-15-15 game and people will still blame him for the heat not playing legendary level. he left cleveland and put it on espn, not the best of ideas but **** happens. the only people that should be remotely angry are cleveland fans, a good majority of other fans that **** on him are mad because he didn't join their team(i.e. some knick fans). the guy's a animal, but he's not ****ing perfect. he doesn't make a game winning shot over 3 defenders from like 30 feet away and all of a sudden he's not the best player in the nba, he's a phony, he'll never live up to jordan's legacy. let him be lebron james, let him do him.

When did he ever put up a 35-15-15 game in the playoffs (or heck, even ever?)? When did LeBron ever receive criticism for a game in which he was forced to shoot a 30 foot, 3 defenders on him shot?

It seems there is a disconnect between what you think LeBron is doing and what he is actually doing...

netsgiantsyanks
06-13-2012, 08:20 PM
they were examples...

khaleesi
06-13-2012, 08:27 PM
Doesn't change the fact that at this point in their NBA Careers MJ already had 2 Championships...

And I hope your not implying that Jordan was somehow not ready to go to the NBA during his college years. ACC Freshman of the year, NCAA All-American Sophmore and Junior years, Naismith and Wooden Player of the year awards as a Junior, and he won a a National Championship hitting the game winning shot.

His 1st year in the league he averaged 28 PPG. To even suggest he was somehow not NBA ready during that time is simply laughable...

Nut Huggers are 100% vested in the LBJ GOAT narrative.

LeBron Nut Hugger Cult (LNHC).

JordansBulls
06-13-2012, 08:30 PM
What do you mean? He still had to beat a superior team to his in a fashion we have never seen before from anyone.

Cavs had a 3.33 SRS rating and the Pistons had a 3.68 SRS rating. Not much difference.

Kevj77
06-13-2012, 09:00 PM
100% vested in the LBJ GOAT narrative.
I think a lot of the biggest Lebron apologist are Hollinger advanced stat junkies. If they were NBA GMs they would fire scouts and build a team in microsoft excell. They totally underrate intangibles. To admit that Lebron might not be the best is to admit that their precious advanced stats have flaws. That some things have to be judged with your eyes and not in a spreadsheet or through equations.

D-Leethal
06-13-2012, 09:10 PM
Nobody is saying LeBron didn't have a tremendous game, but I don't think anyone can argue that when his team needed him most, he dissapeared and was nowhere to be found. Once KD got hot, LeBron didn't step up and score to counter and he didn't take the initiative to D him up while he gave his team nearly a double digit lead in the 4th quarter.

Everyone knows LeBron is a tremendous player, we just want to see him make tremendous plays when it matters most. Until he does just that, and outduels the best, he will be criticized.

I mean they pretty much missed every go-ahead shot in the playoffs to decide the closest games. ESPN had it all over the place during the Celtics series. They have a serious achilles heel in tight one possession 4th quarter games and seem to only win the easy wins. That goes to show how good they are, because they still made the finals while losing the majority of close 1-2 possession games. But your eventually going to get battle tested en route to a title, and when teams come to battle down the stretch of the 4th, LBJ goes MIA.

The MVP should show up in tight games when it matters most, LeBron usually doesn't. MVP's aren't made in the first 3 quarters or the first 3 rounds. They are made in the 4th quarters of the final round when the best of the best cement their legacies. LeBron is cementing his in all the wrong ways.

I don't get too impressed at the tremendous plays and big time stats when they occur with a comfortable lead in the 2nd quarter. Isn't the saying 'your true colors come out when your faced with adversity' or something like that. Well whenever LeBron is faced with do-or-die adversity he can't make it happen. Its not about how he plays when its easy for him, its when teams make it very hard for him how does he respond? We all know the story....

Mell413
06-13-2012, 09:41 PM
^ He faced elimination twice against the Celtics just last week and I would say he performed quite well. He wasn't spectacular last night, but he was the least of the Heat's worries. He scored 7 on the 4th quarter. Not great, but it's not as if he disappeared either.

LA_Raiders
06-13-2012, 10:05 PM
goat

willabeast77
06-13-2012, 10:14 PM
LeBron shouldn't be getting blamed for their game 1 loss. He had arguably his best Finals game. His teammates didn't show up.

jam
06-13-2012, 10:17 PM
OKC defended home court. Par for the course.

No one can condemn Lebron after a single game in this series, especially in a game where he played very well.

bucketss
06-13-2012, 10:36 PM
Are you kidding me?

yes he is 100% WRONG, i mean illogical lebron haters like him make these mistakes constantly hoping and praying nobody checks what they spew out their mouths he scored 25 twice vs the spurs.


watch him now change it to "it's his first game with 26 and more as well" :rolleyes:

blahblahyoutoo
06-14-2012, 12:54 AM
When are we gonna stop with this whole "He needs more help crap". The reason why he's struggling to win a ring is because he doesn't want to work hard for anything. yes he can score 30 points but those 30 points weren't scored when it mattered. Durant can be gone the whole game but when his team needs a basket he gets it going and not settling for jumpers.

i never understood this argument. why does it matter when he scores his 30?
it has no effect on the final score when he scores them. 30 points is 30 points. 4th quarter points aren't worth more than 1st quarter points.

Hawkize31
06-14-2012, 01:08 AM
A career 2-9 record in the finals as well.

That's not Lebrons record. It's his teams' record. There's a difference.

Chronz
06-14-2012, 01:48 AM
No, the real difference is that people actually acknowledge that their schedule was cake.
How can it be a difference when your complaint rings true even louder for the Showtime Lakers, nobody can deny a teams level of play, there is tangible evidence to point to. You certainly didnt acknowledge their schedule was cake when you claimed Cleveland had the "easiest path in NBA history". Considering you werent aware of your own teams history (yet again), I highly doubt you knew what people were saying but the point remains, they had it easier.

Man your just incapable of admitting when your wrong arent you, you ASKED me to name an easier path to the Finals, I named several FAR easier because the true difference was that those teams were far and away ahead of the pack. Atleast the Cavs faced a team superior to them.


People who always bring up what a "miracle" is was that Lebron took a "talentless" team to the finals always seem to not mention that his competition was very weak. He cake walked to the EFC and while he did beat a team with a slightly better record than his in the regular season (eastern conference was a complete joke that year) it was more of a collapse on the Pistons part, than a marvelous exploit on Lebrons part.
Dont care what other people tell you, I only care about the discussion we're having.


Detroit was up 2-0 on the Cavs and after that they imploded on themselves due to coaching and lockeroom issues which are well documented. Rasheed Wallace even admitted that the team quit on Saunders half way through that series. In Lebron's "miracle game 5" the only big man they had available to play center was Antonio Mcdyess at 6'9 who had fouled out of the game before OT and Rasheed Wallace who was also only 6/9 and was in serious foul trouble. Combo all those front court issues with a team that quit on their coach and all of the sudden his run it not so amazing. One could assess that Lebron had some lucky breaks fall his way rather than him ascending to some superman like state and carrying his team against insurmountable odds.
LOL yea because scoring every pt down the stretch for your team is something that any team allows easily. You can try to discredit his accomplishment all you want, it doesnt change the fact that I disproved your theory.


Its not anything like the LA Kings run this year where an 8 seed beat all of the best teams in the league. Now that was close to a miracle and should be celebrated as such...not Lebron's 2007 finals run where he managed to beat one team that had 3 more regular seasons wins in perhaps the weakest eastern conference of all time.

Perhaps? LMFAO at least youve dropped the conviction you ignorantly displayed in your last post. Sadly he STILL beat a team superior to his.


Again, the only difference is that no one was acting like the Lakers pulled off some sort of miracle during that run based on their conference run to the finals.
Again? This is literally the first time youve said this, and of course no one would act that way, they didnt beat a superior team in historical fashion, they overwhelmed pathetic teams.


Greatness is all relative to your competition, and what the Lakers did in 2001 is far more impressive than what Lebron did in 2007. I do give Lebron credit for that 2007 finals run, but I strongly feel that his fans overrate that run and falsely crowned him a king likewise.
Youve done a piss poor job of proving that its overrated thats for sure.


Again, it was a cake walk to the ECF and a minor struggle against a team that imploded on themselves with only 3 more regular season wins in perhaps the weakest Eastern Conference of all time.
Again, it still represents a harder accomplishment than beating FAR INFERIOR TEAMS.

Chronz
06-14-2012, 01:50 AM
Cavs had a 3.33 SRS rating and the Pistons had a 3.68 SRS rating. Not much difference.
Like I said before, Im more impressed by defeating a superior team in a 7 game series, in historical fashion just to make the Finals.

Chronz
06-14-2012, 01:55 AM
stop trying to pick fights. No one said anything about being NBA ready. He simply mentioned age. A better comparison from him would have been kobe.
Not picking fights, and you can make any comparison you want.


Doesn't change the fact that at this point in their NBA Careers MJ already had 2 Championships...
At this stage in their careers they both had zero. Maybe we just measure players differently. Like Bron playing in the NBA as a teen is more impressive to me than playing in College, at the same stage in their basketball careers Bron was holding his own against grown men.


And I hope your not implying that Jordan was somehow not ready to go to the NBA during his college years. ACC Freshman of the year, NCAA All-American Sophmore and Junior years, Naismith and Wooden Player of the year awards as a Junior, and he won a a National Championship hitting the game winning shot.
I dont have to imply that, MJ readily admits it himself.


His 1st year in the league he averaged 28 PPG. To even suggest he was somehow not NBA ready during that time is simply laughable...

I never said he wasnt NBA ready when he entered the game. Moot point.

NBAFan2012
06-14-2012, 04:44 AM
i never understood this argument. why does it matter when he scores his 30?
it has no effect on the final score when he scores them. 30 points is 30 points. 4th quarter points aren't worth more than 1st quarter points.

:facepalm:

Like I understand that you are a Heat fan and a Lebron fan but really?

It is ok that the guy does no wrong in your eyes but cmon man.
Did you see what Kevin Durant did in the 4th Quarter? ? ? Did you see that?
THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE WANT LEBRON JAMES TO DO.

Kevin Durants team won, that is why 4th quarter points matter more. It is really not that hard to understand.

Another thing that I dont know if whether it belongs here or not but ...for all those that say Lebron needs help?

Well 4 of his guys scored in double digits, 4. Only Westbrook had double digit for the Thunder, and Ibaka barely at 10. Lebron is the one whose teammates dont help him? Lebrons teammates help him throughout the game, it is his responsibility to finish and win them the game. You know...how Kevin Durant finished and won the Thunder the game.

The Lebron has no help argument baffles me and it really makes me lose faith in humanity

NBAFan2012
06-14-2012, 04:48 AM
^ He faced elimination twice against the Celtics just last week and I would say he performed quite well. He wasn't spectacular last night, but he was the least of the Heat's worries. He scored 7 on the 4th quarter. Not great, but it's not as if he disappeared either.

People just want to hold Lebron to Kevin Durant standards but thats not fair. And the Heat are probably going to still win the title and then everyone will say how great Lebron was and that he did it all by himself because Wade was sucking and Bosh was mediocre and his role players didnt step up, So why not hold him to the same standards when the Heat lose? I dont get it

Evolution23
06-14-2012, 07:44 AM
He also takes more of them than anyone. He leads all time in game winners with 37

If you only take 10 and make 5 you shoot 50 percent. If you take 70 and make 30 all of a sudden your percentage falls.

But who's the better clutch player. Percentages are a lie like most statistics. Nene used to shoot 60% and Carmelo would shoot around 46. Doesn't mean I want nene shooting it

Right but we only measure players that have taken a certain amount of shots. 5-10 doesn't count.

Evolution23
06-14-2012, 07:57 AM
He also takes more of them than anyone. He leads all time in game winners with 37

If you only take 10 and make 5 you shoot 50 percent. If you take 70 and make 30 all of a sudden your percentage falls.

But who's the better clutch player. Percentages are a lie like most statistics. Nene used to shoot 60% and Carmelo would shoot around 46. Doesn't mean I want nene shooting it

BTw Kobe has the lowest percentage of clutch shots out of all the superstars.

DeRaptor95
06-14-2012, 08:49 AM
I can bet someone $10000000000000000000000000000000000000000 his points will go up if not stay the same

dh144498
06-14-2012, 10:35 AM
Still better to lose in the Finals than lose beforehand, particularly when he makes the Finals with the team he had in Cleveland.

yeah 0/8 in the finals.... not 2 not 3 not 4...not 7... BUT 8 LOSSES IN THE FINALS. I guess that will help his legacy right? Being in the finals 8 times even though he lost all of them..... Finals is the ultimate stage in the NBA, it represents everything from pressure to glory. I would rather never make the finals than going 0-xxx in the finals.

Chronz
06-14-2012, 11:56 AM
yeah 0/8 in the finals.... not 2 not 3 not 4...not 7... BUT 8 LOSSES IN THE FINALS. I guess that will help his legacy right? Being in the finals 8 times even though he lost all of them..... Finals is the ultimate stage in the NBA, it represents everything from pressure to glory. I would rather never make the finals than going 0-xxx in the finals.
You dont know how many he will make but yes, its always better to win more games than lose once you make the playoffs.

JordansBulls
06-14-2012, 12:33 PM
Like I said before, Im more impressed by defeating a superior team in a 7 game series, in historical fashion just to make the Finals.

How about losing 3 years in a row as the superior team though?

You know the team that had the better record, higher SRS Rating, Higher Expected Win Loss Ratio, Higher Point Differential, etc.

If you want I can add that post with that information in here, but you already know these details and I'm sure you and I don't want to rehash it again.

ink
06-14-2012, 12:51 PM
The Heat's problem is not Lebron. What more needs to be said. Hating Lebron has grown from micro-industry to all-out obsession with NBA fans. I don't like him either but it's ludicrous to condemn the guy when he scores 30 points in a finals game.

Chronz
06-14-2012, 01:20 PM
How about losing 3 years in a row as the superior team though?

You know the team that had the better record, higher SRS Rating, Higher Expected Win Loss Ratio, Higher Point Differential, etc.

If you want I can add that post with that information in here, but you already know these details and I'm sure you and I don't want to rehash it again.
We've gone through it many times, Im going to tell you he had a team that was the least talented 60 win team in NBA history, your going to say he had proven winners like Ben Wallace and Shaq, and Im going to say they were both injured, and the cycle will continue.

JordansBulls
06-14-2012, 01:23 PM
We've gone through it many times, Im going to tell you he had a team that was the least talented 60 win team in NBA history, your going to say he had proven winners like Ben Wallace and Shaq, and Im going to say they were both injured, and the cycle will continue.

Not least talented team, that would be Dirk's Mavs in 2006, Rose's Bulls in 2011, MJ's Bulls 1991 and 1998. All those teams had only one allstar and no guys who won titles as the man.

Chronz
06-14-2012, 01:25 PM
Not least talented team, that would be Dirk's Mavs in 2006, Rose's Bulls in 2011, MJ's Bulls 1991 and 1998. All those teams had only one allstar and no guys who won titles as the man.
False.

BobbyHillSwag
06-14-2012, 01:27 PM
False.

he's actually spot on

Chronz
06-14-2012, 01:31 PM
LOL you know your in the wrong when you have Bobby Hill on your side.

bucketss
06-14-2012, 02:40 PM
he's actually spot on

you should stop agreeing with people you're making any argument they make weaker just by your presence.

BobbyHillSwag
06-14-2012, 02:41 PM
[QUOTE=bucketss;22525423]you should stop agreeing with people you're making any argument they make weaker just by your presence.[/Q


same for you

bucketss
06-14-2012, 02:42 PM
^ lol can't even quote properly:facepalm:

BobbyHillSwag
06-14-2012, 02:45 PM
^ lol can't even quote properly:facepalm:

lol it's called accidently backspacing and dont feel like correcting. You're a child and I can tell by how you would bring up something as novice as "you cant quote properly". Wow, fall back little *****.

bucketss
06-14-2012, 02:50 PM
child? says the guy with bobby hill in his name and "Bobby Hill Swags on you ducks" inserted into his signature

valade16
06-14-2012, 03:14 PM
At this stage in their careers they both had zero. Maybe we just measure players differently. Like Bron playing in the NBA as a teen is more impressive to me than playing in College, at the same stage in their basketball careers Bron was holding his own against grown men.

False. This is LeBron's 9th year in the league. In MJ's 9th year in the league he already had 2 Titles.

You want to go by age because it makes LeBron look better when in fact, by career in terms of NBA experience MJ had rings at this point and LeBron didn't.

If you want to go by age then MJ had an NCAA Championship ring as a Freshman in College. So there is no way to spin the data where MJ doesn't have some form of championship ring before LeBron.

If you want to say LeBron holding his own in the NBA as a teen is better than MJ winning a Title in college, being the ACC Freshman of the year, 2 time All-American, and Naismith and Wooden award winners for best college player then that is a seperate argument.

But trying so desperately to spin the facts to make it seem like 9 years in Lebron has experienced as much success as MJ is a sad testament to your bias towards LeBron, which is becoming more and more apparent...

valade16
06-14-2012, 03:20 PM
child? says the guy with bobby hill in his name and "Bobby Hill Swags on you ducks" inserted into his signature

You spelled "buckets" wrong :p

blahblahyoutoo
06-14-2012, 03:33 PM
:facepalm:

Like I understand that you are a Heat fan and a Lebron fan but really?

It is ok that the guy does no wrong in your eyes but cmon man.
Did you see what Kevin Durant did in the 4th Quarter? ? ? Did you see that?
THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE WANT LEBRON JAMES TO DO.

Kevin Durants team won, that is why 4th quarter points matter more. It is really not that hard to understand.

Another thing that I dont know if whether it belongs here or not but ...for all those that say Lebron needs help?

Well 4 of his guys scored in double digits, 4. Only Westbrook had double digit for the Thunder, and Ibaka barely at 10. Lebron is the one whose teammates dont help him? Lebrons teammates help him throughout the game, it is his responsibility to finish and win them the game. You know...how Kevin Durant finished and won the Thunder the game.

The Lebron has no help argument baffles me and it really makes me lose faith in humanity

first off, i'm a heat fan, not really a lebron fan. i respect his bball skills but not his character.

but let me break this down for you in a simple manner that you might be able to follow.

if we expect lebron to score more in the 4th quarter and maintain a respectable 30ppg avg (he happened to score exactly 30 in game 1)...

lets say he scores 20 4th quarter points (durant score a measly 17 points in game 1) . is that enough for you?
so that would mean he would only score 10 through 3 quarters.

all else remaining the same except shifting around lebrons scoring, the score after 3 in game 1 would be okc 74, miami 60 (had to shave off 13 points because lebron didn't score as much through 3 qtrs).

again, all else remaining the same, except lebron has a monster 20 point 4th, and the final score is now... you guessed it, okc 105, miami 94. oh my gosh, is that the same exact score as when lebron scored only 7, as opposed to 20 in the 4th q? why, yes... yes it is.

you see, if he scores more in the 4th quarter, he scores less in the first 3 quarters, but the end score is the same if we go by the law of averages. do you see how that works? it's not hard to grasp, really.

perhaps you can point out that he needs to score more, or shoulder more of the burden, but it has NOTHING to do with when the points come. 1 point is worth 1 point in any quarter.

Chronz
06-14-2012, 03:38 PM
False. This is LeBron's 9th year in the league. In MJ's 9th year in the league he already had 2 Titles.
LOL, so you expect me to abide to your rules of how to measure players? Sorry but nothing I said was false, AGAIN maybe we just measure players differently, if you refuse to accept that reality then we are having a pointless discussion. Bron as a teen was in the NBA, MJ was in college. That doesnt detract from Brons career, it ENHANCES it.

At the same stage in their careers they both had zero. I dont measure players by years served, rather by where they are at in their development. Bron at the same age as MJ was NBA ready sooner and winning more in the playoffs, these are FACTS. You can stick to years served, but you cant tell others they are wrong for not agreeing. Both age and years served matter.


You want to go by age because it makes LeBron look better when in fact, by career in terms of NBA experience MJ had rings at this point and LeBron didn't.
No I go by age with everyone, I rate players as if each year add a chapter to their legacy.


If you want to go by age then MJ had an NCAA Championship ring as a Freshman in College. So there is no way to spin the data where MJ doesn't have some form of championship ring before LeBron.
I dont need to, I had a thread where I asked whats more impressive, winning the Naismith award among kids or dominating in the NBA, most agreed its more impressive to be an all-star than win its most coveted award.


If you want to say LeBron holding his own in the NBA as a teen is better than MJ winning a Title in college, being the ACC Freshman of the year, 2 time All-American, and Naismith and Wooden award winners for best college player then that is a seperate argument.
I dont see how.


But trying so desperately to spin the facts to make it seem like 9 years in Lebron has experienced as much success as MJ is a sad testament to your bias towards LeBron, which is becoming more and more apparent...
I dont have to spin anything, Im merely staying consistent with how Ive rated EVERYONE TO EVER PLAY THE GAME. If thats bias then I suggest you look up the definition of the word. There is nothing biased about being unequivocally consistent with every player. You would have a great point if you had proof that I have ever gone away from this line of thinking, sadly you dont, which is why I was willing to admit maybe we just rate players differently, a notion which you egotistically refused to accept. If anyone is showing bias its you, your not willing to admit something as easily understood as a difference of opinion. You dont have to agree with me, but you definitely cant tell me Im wrong.

bucketss
06-14-2012, 03:43 PM
Not least talented team, that would be Dirk's Mavs in 2006, Rose's Bulls in 2011, MJ's Bulls 1991 and 1998. All those teams had only one allstar and no guys who won titles as the man.

let me guess you're going to act like shaq and ben wallace were in their primes? right? well i can only imagine the illogical responses that ensue so please don't reply! im sorry im even typing this LOL

basketfan4life
06-14-2012, 03:50 PM
first off, i'm a heat fan, not really a lebron fan. i respect his bball skills but not his character.

but let me break this down for you in a simple manner that you might be able to follow.

if we expect lebron to score more in the 4th quarter and maintain a respectable 30ppg avg (he happened to score exactly 30 in game 1)...

lets say he scores 20 4th quarter points (durant score a measly 17 points in game 1) . is that enough for you?
so that would mean he would only score 10 through 3 quarters.

all else remaining the same except shifting around lebrons scoring, the score after 3 in game 1 would be okc 74, miami 60 (had to shave off 13 points because lebron didn't score as much through 3 qtrs).

again, all else remaining the same, except lebron has a monster 20 point 4th, and the final score is now... you guessed it, okc 105, miami 94. oh my gosh, is that the same exact score as when lebron scored only 7, as opposed to 20 in the 4th q? why, yes... yes it is.

you see, if he scores more in the 4th quarter, he scores less in the first 3 quarters, but the end score is the same if we go by the law of averages. do you see how that works? it's not hard to grasp, really.

perhaps you can point out that he needs to score more, or shoulder more of the burden, but it has NOTHING to do with when the points come. 1 point is worth 1 point in any quarter.

the points that lebron imaginary didn't score in the first 3 quarters, will they just throw the ball out of bounds on that possessions ? Or his teammates are going to take shots ? What kind of a flawed logic is this.

And what if he scores 30 in first 3 quarters, he can still come out and dominate the 4th.

k.smith904
06-14-2012, 03:53 PM
who gives a ****? Yall are acting like children over an argument that can't be won.

And just because you can articulate a point like a reasonable human being, doesn't mean you're the dictator of everything true and false in the world of basketball, Chronz.

Jesus christ...

blahblahyoutoo
06-14-2012, 03:56 PM
dp

blahblahyoutoo
06-14-2012, 03:58 PM
the points that lebron imaginary didn't score in the first 3 quarters, will they just throw the ball out of bounds on that possessions ? Or his teammates are going to take shots ? What kind of a flawed logic is this.

And what if he scores 30 in first 3 quarters, he can still come out and dominate the 4th.

does lebron take all the shots? does he not have 4 other teammates on the court with him? does he hit every single one of his shots?
do you not grasp this simple concept and then label it as flawed logic?

sure, he can score more in the 4th quarter, but the notion i'm dispelling is that his points in the first 3 quarters "do not matter".


yes he can score 30 points but those 30 points weren't scored when it mattered.

NBAFan2012
06-14-2012, 04:46 PM
first off, i'm a heat fan, not really a lebron fan. i respect his bball skills but not his character.

but let me break this down for you in a simple manner that you might be able to follow.

if we expect lebron to score more in the 4th quarter and maintain a respectable 30ppg avg (he happened to score exactly 30 in game 1)...

lets say he scores 20 4th quarter points (durant score a measly 17 points in game 1) . is that enough for you?
so that would mean he would only score 10 through 3 quarters.

all else remaining the same except shifting around lebrons scoring, the score after 3 in game 1 would be okc 74, miami 60 (had to shave off 13 points because lebron didn't score as much through 3 qtrs).

again, all else remaining the same, except lebron has a monster 20 point 4th, and the final score is now... you guessed it, okc 105, miami 94. oh my gosh, is that the same exact score as when lebron scored only 7, as opposed to 20 in the 4th q? why, yes... yes it is.

you see, if he scores more in the 4th quarter, he scores less in the first 3 quarters, but the end score is the same if we go by the law of averages. do you see how that works? it's not hard to grasp, really.

perhaps you can point out that he needs to score more, or shoulder more of the burden, but it has NOTHING to do with when the points come. 1 point is worth 1 point in any quarter.

Ok. You are right. Great point. Nooow I understand.
:facepalm:

NBAFan2012
06-14-2012, 04:48 PM
does lebron take all the shots? does he not have 4 other teammates on the court with him? does he hit every single one of his shots?
do you not grasp this simple concept and then label it as flawed logic?

sure, he can score more in the 4th quarter, but the notion i'm dispelling is that his points in the first 3 quarters "do not matter".


This is amazing stuff. It just boggles the mind

dh144498
06-14-2012, 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by blahblahyoutoo View Post
first off, i'm a heat fan, not really a lebron fan. i respect his bball skills but not his character.

but let me break this down for you in a simple manner that you might be able to follow.

if we expect lebron to score more in the 4th quarter and maintain a respectable 30ppg avg (he happened to score exactly 30 in game 1)...

lets say he scores 20 4th quarter points (durant score a measly 17 points in game 1) . is that enough for you?
so that would mean he would only score 10 through 3 quarters.

all else remaining the same except shifting around lebrons scoring, the score after 3 in game 1 would be okc 74, miami 60 (had to shave off 13 points because lebron didn't score as much through 3 qtrs).

again, all else remaining the same, except lebron has a monster 20 point 4th, and the final score is now... you guessed it, okc 105, miami 94. oh my gosh, is that the same exact score as when lebron scored only 7, as opposed to 20 in the 4th q? why, yes... yes it is.

you see, if he scores more in the 4th quarter, he scores less in the first 3 quarters, but the end score is the same if we go by the law of averages. do you see how that works? it's not hard to grasp, really.

perhaps you can point out that he needs to score more, or shoulder more of the burden, but it has NOTHING to do with when the points come. 1 point is worth 1 point in any quarter.


Is this even logic......:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: