PDA

View Full Version : IF, we end up as sellers this season... Who goes and for what?



The_Jet11
06-12-2012, 03:16 AM
I still have a lot of faith that the boys will pick it up a bit, and that provided Morrow isn't out for a prolonged period, we still have a shot at making things interesting this year.

If the deadline approaches, and it looks like we're not in the thick of the wild card race, who would you deal?

I'll throw a couple of wild trade suggestions out there...

Johnson (FA) to DET. We know they are in dire need of some production from 2B, and if they start to get that lineup going, they could certainly challenge in the Central. We could always make a play for him again through free agency.

Encarnacion (FA) to _______. The dodgers could be looking for an upgrade over Loney. What better time to sell high on EE. I'm thrilled with his production this year, and would welcome him back next season for sure, but with him heading for FA and the considerable market that he could generate around the deadline, i think we could get a very nice package for him.

Davis ('13 option) to ______. With the crowded outfield depth that the Jayd currently feature, davis could be a great weapon for a playoff bound team. The return would be small, but the fact that he might only be featured as a fifth outfielder on the jays next year makes him available. Gose COULD be ready for the show as early as next year, so another burner is not too far off.

Mathis (FA) to a contender looking for catching depth and playoff experience.

Francisco - if we could get anything for him.

And pretty much the entire bullpen, save for Santos. For the right price, you can take your pick.

Any thoughts as to who we could get back, or wht type of package each player might warrant?

Valleyfella
06-12-2012, 08:04 AM
I can't see EE going unless it's an offer they can't refuse or the Jays don't feel they can resign him. He's only 28 and been the Jays most productive hitter this year. To replace those numbers through free agency would cost a mint.

I think Johnson is the most likely to go with Davis and most of the bullpen a close second - although only a couple of them have much value.

alistar
06-12-2012, 08:46 AM
trade Bautista

JMac4PM
06-12-2012, 10:49 AM
Oliver is most likely to go I dont care what anybody says... any team in the league would love to have him.

Cordero to an NL team for a bag of pucks... not even balls! Pucks! We'll give em to the leafs!

I dont see Davis goin anywhere... we have found a great role for him here and he is much more valuable then what we would receive for him.

JMac4PM
06-12-2012, 10:50 AM
oh and a blockbuster deal for Kramer Champlin!

Krylian
06-12-2012, 11:11 AM
oh and a blockbuster deal for Kramer Champlin!

I'll give you Season 4 of Seinfeld (on DVD) for Champlin.

Krylian
06-12-2012, 11:14 AM
Oliver is most likely to go I dont care what anybody says... any team in the league would love to have him.

Cordero to an NL team for a bag of pucks... not even balls! Pucks! We'll give em to the leafs!

I dont see Davis goin anywhere... we have found a great role for him here and he is much more valuable then what we would receive for him.

I think you'll see one deal...maybe 2...but they'll be for scraps...Coco/Oliver/Villanueva...maybe Omar to a contender to give him a shot at a ring...that kind of thing. Don't expect to see much moved. That's just my opinion though.

If anything, AA might try to pry another building block from another team that's on the outs...a player in his mid-20's or so that's about to get a good pay increase.

bomber0104
06-12-2012, 11:41 AM
Oliver and Johnson are the obvious ones and could potentially net us a solid return

Krylian
06-12-2012, 12:00 PM
Oliver and Johnson are the obvious ones and could potentially net us a solid return

With no compensation for Oliver I think the return will be less than in the past. A marginal high-A or AA prospect maybe?

As for KJ...might get something back...but I'd rather hang on to him...make him the token offer to see if he accepts or reject (1 year, $12-13M)...if he goes elsewhere, take the 2 picks and do what they did this year in next years stronger draft.

Whoever deals for KJ won't get any compensation either and there's no guarantee they'll have him for more than a couple of months so why would they give up anything of significance?

Eagles4Lyfe
06-12-2012, 01:20 PM
Yunel can go if the return is great as it seems like people are saying Hech is ready soon anyways so if he nets us something good why not??

JPA can go if TDA is ready and we can sign a veteran catcher to back him and mentor him but I see a deal for JPA happen during the off season if aanything.

If AA can swing one of those Rasmus like deals like he did last year I'd be on board.

But we don't have a 2b in the waiting for KJ so I'd hold onto him for another year or 2.

Cooper should get FT if were tanking and lets see how he does over the course of a year.

I really don't know who else on our team can be had no pitchers outside of prospects, no veterans because we need them.

Krylian
06-12-2012, 01:25 PM
Yunel can go if the return is great as it seems like people are saying Hech is ready soon anyways so if he nets us something good why not??

JPA can go if TDA is ready and we can sign a veteran catcher to back him and mentor him but I see a deal for JPA happen during the off season if aanything.

If AA can swing one of those Rasmus like deals like he did last year I'd be on board.

But we don't have a 2b in the waiting for KJ so I'd hold onto him for another year or 2.

Cooper should get FT if were tanking and lets see how he does over the course of a year.

I really don't know who else on our team can be had no pitchers outside of prospects, no veterans because we need them.

I would certainly consider moving Yunel...he has a very friendly contract and that's very desireable. Big gamble putting all your eggs in the Hech bandwagon though. If it doesn't work out with him where do you turn to. Shortstops are not easy to find...at least not quality ones.

MrForever
06-12-2012, 01:27 PM
Yunel can go if the return is great as it seems like people are saying Hech is ready soon anyways so if he nets us something good why not??

JPA can go if TDA is ready and we can sign a veteran catcher to back him and mentor him but I see a deal for JPA happen during the off season if aanything.

If AA can swing one of those Rasmus like deals like he did last year I'd be on board.

But we don't have a 2b in the waiting for KJ so I'd hold onto him for another year or 2.

Cooper should get FT if were tanking and lets see how he does over the course of a year.

I really don't know who else on our team can be had no pitchers outside of prospects, no veterans because we need them.


Here's my opinions:

Lawrie - keep him. He's a core guy moving forward and I wouldn't move him for anything less than an elite young pitching talent

Rasmus - great guy movig froward and an integral part of the teams core. I'm sure he won't be moved.

Bautista - should retire a jay in my opinion.

EE - looks to have turned into a legit power bat. I would trade him for a player with a safer contract or a pitcher. Hopefully they can either pan out an extension or trade him so we end up with more than just picks.

Arencibia - don't give up on him yet.

Johnson - I like him but I'd move him for an overpayment.

Escobar - same deal as Johnson.

Davis, Mathis, Oliver and some of the other relievers may bring back a solo prospect from a contender. They can all go.

Eagles4Lyfe
06-12-2012, 01:28 PM
I would certainly consider moving Yunel...he has a very friendly contract and that's very desireable. Big gamble putting all your eggs in the Hech bandwagon though. If it doesn't work out with him where do you turn to. Shortstops are not easy to find...at least not quality ones.

Well everyone says his glove is already major league ready and cmon Yunel the whole year has had limited power and has been a ground ball machine at worst if thats all that Hech does then who cares right?? Yunel right now should be in the 7-9 spot in the order, we can throw hech down there bud and not skip a beat.

But the question is what contending team can use him?? We can also package Oliver if need be in that deal and get a sexi prospect back.

Eagles4Lyfe
06-12-2012, 01:33 PM
Here's my opinions:

Lawrie - keep him. He's a core guy moving forward and I wouldn't move him for anything less than an elite young pitching talent

Rasmus - great guy movig froward and an integral part of the teams core. I'm sure he won't be moved.

Bautista - should retire a jay in my opinion.

EE - looks to have turned into a legit power bat. I would trade him for a player with a safer contract or a pitcher. Hopefully they can either pan out an extension or trade him so we end up with more than just picks.

Arencibia - don't give up on him yet.

Johnson - I like him but I'd move him for an overpayment.

Escobar - same deal as Johnson.

Davis, Mathis, Oliver and some of the other relievers may bring back a solo prospect from a contender. They can all go.

Agreed on Lawrie, Rasmus, Jose and EE.
I really would love EE BUTTTT if a team is willing to give us a legitimate number 4 hitter back in a package deal where EE would have to go the other way then sign me up right away. If the Whitesox fall heavily out of contention and become sellers and Konerko or Dunn are available sign me up.
Dunn has 2 years after this year on his contract at 14M each year which isn't even bad.

Lead off-Rasmus-Jose-Dunn-Lawrie-KJ or Cooper if he proves himself or heck TDA even in this spot if he's ready next year is pretty good.

KJ is more important than Yunel IMO because like I said there isn't a 2b ready in the farm but there is a SS ready who at worst will give us the same production Yunel is giving us right now.

The_Jet11
06-12-2012, 01:34 PM
I would keep both EE and KJ, but with both headed for free agency, there is no guarantee we could "hang on to" either guy anyways. Money talks, players seek different locations and teams. We can control their destinies right now. With the lack of compensation, it appears that players may be more inclined to accept a trade to a contender, and then re-sign with their original club. Both players have been productive here, who is to say that they wouldn't welcome a trade to a contender, a shot at a ring, and then still keep the Jays in mind once they hit free agency.

I say deal both, if the package is deemed adequate. It only gives us more bullets if an opportunity to acquire a true cornerstone player (King Felix, or a middle of the order bat) presents itself later on.

EE could likely net a solid package from the dodgers and they may not resign him. If we are not going to compete this year, AA needs to keep stockpiling controllable assets that we are guaranteed to have for more than just the remainder of 2012.

MrForever
06-12-2012, 01:35 PM
Agreed on Lawrie, Rasmus, Jose and EE.
I really would love EE BUTTTT if a team is willing to give us a legitimate number 4 hitter back in a package deal where EE would have to go the other way then sign me up right away. If the Whitesox fall heavily out of contention and become sellers and Konerko or Dunn are available sign me up.
Dunn has 2 years after this year on his contract at 14M each year which isn't even bad.

Lead off-Rasmus-Jose-Dunn-Lawrie-KJ or Cooper if he proves himself or heck TDA even in this spot if he's ready next year is pretty good.

KJ is more important than Yunel IMO because like I said there isn't a 2b ready in the farm but there is a SS ready who at worst will give us the same production Yunel is giving us right now.

KJ is also a better player than Escobar overall. The only advantage to Escobar is his contract.

Eagles4Lyfe
06-12-2012, 01:42 PM
Yup which is why Yunel can net us a very nice prospect. When I have time I'll see which contending teams need a SS.
Of the top of my head I know the Mets, Phillies, reds, Pirates, Giants, Dodgers(cant remember who their SS is) can use him.

Then you have teams like the Atletics who can always use him lol and love players under contract like that.

DeRozan10
06-12-2012, 01:43 PM
If we become sellers ....

I wouldnt be surprised to see Johnson, Encarnacion and Arencibia all traded

bomber0104
06-12-2012, 01:47 PM
i wonder if you could pry taillon from Pittsburgh for EE and a pitching prospect

jaysdan
06-12-2012, 01:50 PM
Agreed on Lawrie, Rasmus, Jose and EE.
I really would love EE BUTTTT if a team is willing to give us a legitimate number 4 hitter back in a package deal where EE would have to go the other way then sign me up right away. If the Whitesox fall heavily out of contention and become sellers and Konerko or Dunn are available sign me up.
Dunn has 2 years after this year on his contract at 14M each year which isn't even bad.

Lead off-Rasmus-Jose-Dunn-Lawrie-KJ or Cooper if he proves himself or heck TDA even in this spot if he's ready next year is pretty good.

KJ is more important than Yunel IMO because like I said there isn't a 2b ready in the farm but there is a SS ready who at worst will give us the same production Yunel is giving us right now.

So you want to package EE, who this year is a legit 4 hitter, for another 4 hitter? That's the definition of a lateral move, and if the white sox were to trade Konerko or Dunn for instance why would they want Encarnacion back? Secondly, wouldn't it make sense to add to the offence and not make it theoretically same in your proposal, therefore keeping EE and finding a way to acquire another bat. I think the jays should make a play for Morneau, 2 years left at 14 mil per year, from the twins who I would expect to not be asking a lot for in return especially if we picked up most of the salary. The jays get a first basemen and that left handed bat behind bautista that Farrell seems to crave.

DeRozan10
06-12-2012, 01:50 PM
I feel like im the only person around here that doesnt like Kelly Johnson.

Krylian
06-12-2012, 01:50 PM
i wonder if you could pry taillon from Pittsburgh for EE and a pitching prospect

No.

Why would Pittsburgh do that?

DeRozan10
06-12-2012, 01:51 PM
If your dealing Eddy, your dealing him for prospects. Not a lateral move for a guy like Dunn.


I wonder if we could get Castellanos and maybe another spec for a package around EE and Johnson

alistar
06-12-2012, 01:58 PM
No.

Why would Pittsburgh do that?

GM doing bath salts?

Eagles4Lyfe
06-12-2012, 02:08 PM
So you want to package EE, who this year is a legit 4 hitter, for another 4 hitter? That's the definition of a lateral move, and if the white sox were to trade Konerko or Dunn for instance why would they want Encarnacion back? Secondly, wouldn't it make sense to add to the offence and not make it theoretically same in your proposal, therefore keeping EE and finding a way to acquire another bat. I think the jays should make a play for Morneau, 2 years left at 14 mil per year, from the twins who I would expect to not be asking a lot for in return especially if we picked up most of the salary. The jays get a first basemen and that left handed bat behind bautista that Farrell seems to crave.

Because EE isn't proven and guys liek Dunn and Konerko are much more consistant, have a better track record and demand more respect from pitchers meaning Jose will get more pitches he loves.

I said I love EE as the 5th hitter going forward but Lawrie or TDA can replace that to can't they?? Which is why I suggested unless a legitimate number 4 is presented to us I wouldn't trade EE.

Morneau and Dunn are in the same boat but one has injury concerns and the other doesn't.
I like Morneau to but whichever is fine with me

bomber0104
06-12-2012, 02:11 PM
No.

Why would Pittsburgh do that?

they are leading the division and have a terrible lineup with a big hole at 1B.. not to mention they haven't had a winning season in 20+ years

not saying they would do it but no harm to ask if they are still leading the division at the deadline

Krylian
06-12-2012, 02:18 PM
they are leading the division and have a terrible lineup with a big hole at 1B.. not to mention they haven't had a winning season in 20+ years

not saying they would do it but no harm to ask if they are still leading the division at the deadline

They've sucked forever. It would be foolish of them to trade one of, if not their best, pitching prospect for a short term fix. They're in it for the long haul.

I'd love for them to be stupid enough to say yes...but I just don't see it.

wagnall
06-12-2012, 02:38 PM
I can't see EE going unless it's an offer they can't refuse or the Jays don't feel they can resign him. He's only 28 and been the Jays most productive hitter this year. To replace those numbers through free agency would cost a mint.

I think Johnson is the most likely to go with Davis and most of the bullpen a close second - although only a couple of them have much value.

slight correction, EE will be 30 at years end. :)

bomber0104
06-12-2012, 02:41 PM
They've sucked forever. It would be foolish of them to trade one of, if not their best, pitching prospect for a short term fix. They're in it for the long haul.

I'd love for them to be stupid enough to say yes...but I just don't see it.

thats why i said EE plus a prospect to give them some incentive

nithanyo
06-12-2012, 03:01 PM
I suppose AA plans on competing within 2 years so I would say Jose Bautista is the only "untouchable" Jay.

However I don't see us being too active at the deadline. But almost everyone on the roster is expendable. Johnson, snider, arencibia, Rasmus, Escobar, Lind(lol), Hutch, Davis, Frasor, Jansen, EE and Thames are all players that can be packaged for a decent return. Romero, Lawrie or Morrow can get us a haul.

Trades should be focused on major league or near major league players. Obviously players like Lawrie, Romero and Morrow are players you don't trade away but if a pitcher like Hernandez becomes available a package around lawrie is a must.

Krylian
06-12-2012, 03:19 PM
thats why i said EE plus a prospect to give them some incentive

I'd rather take the guy who's got Ace written all over him then a rental and another prospect that clearly won't have Ace written all over him.

bomber0104
06-12-2012, 03:37 PM
I'd rather take the guy who's got Ace written all over him then a rental and another prospect that clearly won't have Ace written all over him.

i dont think a taillon for EE, Nicolino would be that bad to be honest..

especially if it greatly improves your chances of making the playoffs

Eagles4Lyfe
06-12-2012, 03:39 PM
give them Drabek or Hutch too lol they still wont but hey worth a try

Toxeryll
06-12-2012, 03:41 PM
With no compensation for Oliver I think the return will be less than in the past. A marginal high-A or AA prospect maybe?

As for KJ...might get something back...but I'd rather hang on to him...make him the token offer to see if he accepts or reject (1 year, $12-13M)...if he goes elsewhere, take the 2 picks and do what they did this year in next years stronger draft.

Whoever deals for KJ won't get any compensation either and there's no guarantee they'll have him for more than a couple of months so why would they give up anything of significance?

dont we have a club option for oliver next season? if so, we'll get more than a marginal prospect.

Krylian
06-12-2012, 03:47 PM
dont we have a club option for oliver next season? if so, we'll get more than a marginal prospect.

Boy I don't know. Option or not...what can you expect to get for a 40-something year old LH reliever who's biggest asset is guile?

Don't get me know...I'm 100% in support of moving anyone who's not a long term core piece here...I'm just not getting my hopes up that anything of substance will be coming back.

Toxeryll
06-13-2012, 01:12 AM
im pretty sure we'll get decent return for oliver if AA decides to trade him. but personally, id rather keep him, hes by far our best reliever.

Billyen
06-13-2012, 02:55 AM
If your dealing Eddy, your dealing him for prospects. Not a lateral move for a guy like Dunn.


I wonder if we could get Castellanos and maybe another spec for a package around EE and Johnson

yes

Sanyo
06-13-2012, 09:20 AM
I would trade EE (trade on the high, I doubt he puts up another season like this) like Beltran did with the Mets last year for Zach Wheeler.

May not get someone of that elk but you could try to pry Jacob Turner off Detroit -- that might be the best bet.

wagnall
06-13-2012, 04:31 PM
^ I agree on EE. This is a career year for him, but I just don't trust his reliability to do what he's doing again. He's never gone off like this, and I suspect he will drop some as he normally does.. Bautista has already past him by in OBP, Hrs., Rbis's and soon OPS. except BA, which I suspect will happen soon as well. I just feel this is a 1 off season like Lind and Hill.

idrinkpepsi
06-13-2012, 04:50 PM
May not get someone of that elk but you could try to pry Jacob Turner off Detroit -- that might be the best bet.

A trade like Beltran for Wheeler probably won't happen again for a couple of years that was just a weird trade and the Giants probably couldn't have gotten him for any less (Sabean, lol)

I agree on trading EE because his value may not be higher then it is right now ever in his career and you have to sell high in this situation. I'd love to see if we could get a decent shortstop or second basemen prospect but most of the top ones in baseball would be hard to acquire for EE.

darius
06-13-2012, 05:35 PM
I still have a lot of faith that the boys will pick it up a bit, and that provided Morrow isn't out for a prolonged period, we still have a shot at making things interesting this year.

If the deadline approaches, and it looks like we're not in the thick of the wild card race, who would you deal?

I'll throw a couple of wild trade suggestions out there...

Johnson (FA) to DET. We know they are in dire need of some production from 2B, and if they start to get that lineup going, they could certainly challenge in the Central. We could always make a play for him again through free agency.

Encarnacion (FA) to _______. The dodgers could be looking for an upgrade over Loney. What better time to sell high on EE. I'm thrilled with his production this year, and would welcome him back next season for sure, but with him heading for FA and the considerable market that he could generate around the deadline, i think we could get a very nice package for him.

Davis ('13 option) to ______. With the crowded outfield depth that the Jayd currently feature, davis could be a great weapon for a playoff bound team. The return would be small, but the fact that he might only be featured as a fifth outfielder on the jays next year makes him available. Gose COULD be ready for the show as early as next year, so another burner is not too far off.

Mathis (FA) to a contender looking for catching depth and playoff experience.

Francisco - if we could get anything for him.

And pretty much the entire bullpen, save for Santos. For the right price, you can take your pick.

Any thoughts as to who we could get back, or wht type of package each player might warrant?

I would keep Davis. He could be a great bench player for a long time. With Gose up for next year, wow, what team speed.

I would trade Bautista. It'd have to be a great haul for us. You have to give up quality to get quality. I hated trading McGriff and Fernandez back in the day, but we ended up with two WS championships. E5 and Bautista for ______ and ______.

Krylian
06-13-2012, 08:36 PM
I would keep Davis. He could be a great bench player for a long time. With Gose up for next year, wow, what team speed.

I would trade Bautista. It'd have to be a great haul for us. You have to give up quality to get quality. I hated trading McGriff and Fernandez back in the day, but we ended up with two WS championships. E5 and Bautista for ______ and ______.

I can't remember the last time a trade like that happened. 2 stars for 2 stars. Almost unheard of.

wagnall
06-13-2012, 09:13 PM
You trade Bautista and EE to who and for what. No team building would take a soon to be 30 year old FA and a 31 year old slugger and give us young ready to go stars. I also don't see teams that feel they are ready to make a run or are already contenders are going to give us 2 or 3 of their young stars that would even make this make sence for us.
EE yes, but not Bautista. AA would have to move his seat somewhere else if he trades Joey.

mtf
06-13-2012, 09:29 PM
Well, I assume they will be sellers not just because of the terrible slide they're currently on, but also because the injuries to Morrow and Drabek which presumably would hinder any chance of a rebound.

I think Arencibia and Escobar will be traded, because if the season is indeed lost in terms of playoff aspirations, it can be salvaged if they use it as time for players like D'Arnaud and Hechavarria get some experience, and perhaps Gose as well. With the offense struggling to maintain any degree of consistency, it couldn't really hurt anyway.

B2theRY
06-13-2012, 10:19 PM
I can't remember the last time a trade like that happened. 2 stars for 2 stars. Almost unheard of.

Carter & Alomar for Fernandez and Crime Dog

Korac
06-13-2012, 10:48 PM
I would keep Davis. He could be a great bench player for a long time. With Gose up for next year, wow, what team speed.

I would trade Bautista. It'd have to be a great haul for us. You have to give up quality to get quality. I hated trading McGriff and Fernandez back in the day, but we ended up with two WS championships. E5 and Bautista for ______ and ______.

Without bashing you like some might do, I will take a realistic approach here. If you are going to trade Bautista, what would you trade him for and to whom? You can't replace him with en equivalent slugger as there aren't simply many around of Jose's level, and those that are are not going to be traded. This isn't a video game where some one will trade us Josh Hamilton or Miguel Cabrerra for him.

I suppose you could trade him for prospects but the gaping hole left by him and his production would be devastating, and even a stud hitting prospect would be very hard pressed to fill even some of that loss of production. We have trouble finding someone to hit behind him, imagine trying to actually fill his spot in the lineup. We won't even go in to the PR nightmare that trading the face of your franchise would entail.

Anyway, it's very easy to say trade him, and if he were the sole star on a hopeless last place team, you might have a point, but even despite their recent troubles I would hope we would (Well, most of us anyway :) ) all admit that the Jays aren't at that point.


I think Arencibia and Escobar will be traded, because if the season is indeed lost in terms of playoff aspirations, it can be salvaged if they use it as time for players like D'Arnaud and Hechavarria get some experience, and perhaps Gose as well. With the offense struggling to maintain any degree of consistency, it couldn't really hurt anyway.

Now these are much more likely trade options as they play prime positions that always seem to be in demand by a contending club, and we have built in, almost mlb ready, replacements in Hech and D'Arnaud. Both these players certainly have their flaws but could provide good value to a team in the hunt with needs at those position. We shall see soon enough I suppose.

YUMYUM
06-13-2012, 11:22 PM
EE -- Great year, no denying that, his value may never get so high. Say he continues to produce, do you want to re-sign for 5 years for 50+ million?? I don't, but some may.

JPA -- Bat plays at catcher but not at first if he moves there. Love his attiude but the strikeouts, slumps, and below average defense are starting to get to me. I say trade him, not sure how big a return you get for him.

Yunel -- I like Yunel but with Hech in AAA playing well and Yunel turning into more of a defensive SS then an offensive one, I think Hech brings more to the table athletically, steal the odd base, 1st to 3rd etc.

KJ -- Obviously a solid power bat, but also prone to slumps with heavy K's like JP. You just can't have these guys in your line up, outs at least have to be productive and move runners. If Yunel would move to 2nd it would help since we have no real option here for a years to come.

Relievers -- No one wants Cordero, Charlie V may have some value. I don't mind the other arms, keep Perez, Janssen, Frasor. Probably have to trade Oliver out of respect and he'll get you something.

Eagles4Lyfe
06-13-2012, 11:41 PM
I agree we have to be respectful to Oliver and ask him if he wants to go to a contender if he does help him out, it'll help with vets in the future who might consider signing here.

phillipmike
06-13-2012, 11:47 PM
EE -- Great year, no denying that, his value may never get so high. Say he continues to produce, do you want to re-sign for 5 years for 50+ million?? I don't, but some may.

JPA -- Bat plays at catcher but not at first if he moves there. Love his attiude but the strikeouts, slumps, and below average defense are starting to get to me. I say trade him, not sure how big a return you get for him.

Yunel -- I like Yunel but with Hech in AAA playing well and Yunel turning into more of a defensive SS then an offensive one, I think Hech brings more to the table athletically, steal the odd base, 1st to 3rd etc.

KJ -- Obviously a solid power bat, but also prone to slumps with heavy K's like JP. You just can't have these guys in your line up, outs at least have to be productive and move runners. If Yunel would move to 2nd it would help since we have no real option here for a years to come.

Relievers -- No one wants Cordero, Charlie V may have some value. I don't mind the other arms, keep Perez, Janssen, Frasor. Probably have to trade Oliver out of respect and he'll get you something.

I agree with this... With the exception of Yunel, JPA and Hech.

Like you said i would keep Yunel and his great contract and either leave him a short or move him to 2nd base depending on what is the best fit for Hech.

Johnson is a good player but he is in line for a huge raise and i would be willing to move him for if we got a MLB ready or close to it in the form of a prospect. But Hech needs to get time in the majors to prove he is ready before we consider moving Yunel or Johnson.

The same case can be made with JPA. Its only a matter of time before d'Arnaud takes his spot but there needs to be an overlap in playing time for Travis to prove that he is MLB ready before we deal Arencibia. I am a little bit more flexible with this because we do have Gomes who i think can be as effective or perhaps better than JPA so he can be moved for the right deal too.

EE is a tough one. I prefer to keep him because he could be a player heading into the Bautista type development. If he is then we may have a first baseman for the next little while. But if AA and his team is not a believer then yes i would trade him.

Our relievers like Cordero, Oliver and even Frasor could be moved for the right deal.

I would trade JPA, Johnson and our older relievers no problem. As we have Gomes on the short term to replace Arencibia and d'Arnaud in the long-term. If Hech is the real deal then he or Yunel can replace Johnson. And losing guys like Cordero, Oliver and others wont hurt the team as we have a lot of arms. Crawford, Carreno (who should be in our pen permanently), and maybe even Stroman.

The only difficulty i have is figuring out what to do with EE.

phillipmike
06-13-2012, 11:49 PM
I agree we have to be respectful to Oliver and ask him if he wants to go to a contender if he does help him out, it'll help with vets in the future who might consider signing here.

I agree with this too. To me unless AA works his magic (a la Rasmus) a reliever even though a very good one in Oliver does not command a lot. If it scores us some brownie points in regards to pending free agents to get Oliver to the team he wants to go to then i am up for it.

Eagles4Lyfe
06-13-2012, 11:58 PM
To be fair we also let some of our quality pen arms go who are signed for cheap deals that would've helped our pen been consistant for a couple years now.

Downs(4M i believe he signed for with the angels?) or Rzep could've developed into our LOOGY, heck downs could've still been our set up man or even closer.

We passed on Guerrier and Crain during FA when we were interested in them and they signed for pretty cheap deals. Paps this past offseason, but got Santos.

Every year it seems we pass on good quality pen arms that would've helped because we don't want to spend the money on them. Ya pen arms come and go easily but finding consistancy with them is hard unless you pay the good ones.

phillipmike
06-14-2012, 12:14 AM
To be fair we also let some of our quality pen arms go who are signed for cheap deals that would've helped our pen been consistant for a couple years now.

Downs(4M i believe he signed for with the angels?) or Rzep could've developed into our LOOGY, heck downs could've still been our set up man or even closer.

We passed on Guerrier and Crain during FA when we were interested in them and they signed for pretty cheap deals. Paps this past offseason, but got Santos.

Every year it seems we pass on good quality pen arms that would've helped because we don't want to spend the money on them. Ya pen arms come and go easily but finding consistancy with them is hard unless you pay the good ones.

I get your point but in the end this is still a rebuilding team with question marks hence the direction to let a guy like Downs go at his age in replace for the picks. Letting Downs go got us 2 picks that turned out to be Jacob Anderson and Daniel Norris. And i am sure Scrabbles was a key component to get Rasmus here. I like Rzep and would have him back in a second but it does not appear that he is doing any better as his numbers have gotten worse across the board since he has left.

In regards to the other players; Paps, Crain, Guerrier etc. I am not arguing that they are not good arms rather the contrary. My problem is perhaps the Jays did pursue them and offered them the same money or even more (a la Beltran) but they decided that Philly, Chicago and LA respectively were better options. The players need to want to come here just as much as we would want them. Nothing wrong with players choosing other cities - its just the Jays will have to take what they can get and in most cases like AA said trades for controlled players seems to be a better route.

GNick
06-14-2012, 02:31 AM
I still have a lot of faith that the boys will pick it up a bit, and that provided Morrow isn't out for a prolonged period, we still have a shot at making things interesting this year.

If the deadline approaches, and it looks like we're not in the thick of the wild card race, who would you deal?

I'll throw a couple of wild trade suggestions out there...

Johnson (FA) to DET. We know they are in dire need of some production from 2B, and if they start to get that lineup going, they could certainly challenge in the Central. We could always make a play for him again through free agency.

Encarnacion (FA) to _______. The dodgers could be looking for an upgrade over Loney. What better time to sell high on EE. I'm thrilled with his production this year, and would welcome him back next season for sure, but with him heading for FA and the considerable market that he could generate around the deadline, i think we could get a very nice package for him.

Davis ('13 option) to ______. With the crowded outfield depth that the Jayd currently feature, davis could be a great weapon for a playoff bound team. The return would be small, but the fact that he might only be featured as a fifth outfielder on the jays next year makes him available. Gose COULD be ready for the show as early as next year, so another burner is not too far off.

Mathis (FA) to a contender looking for catching depth and playoff experience.

Francisco - if we could get anything for him.

And pretty much the entire bullpen, save for Santos. For the right price, you can take your pick.

Any thoughts as to who we could get back, or wht type of package each player might warrant?

Escobar may bring you a core prospect. Bring up Heck in late season and let him tudor with Omar.

Encarnacion should bring a good prospect. He will hit the big payday this winter and I doubt Jays will ante up the big long term contract after only 1 year of good success.

Johnson may get something good for also. Oliver also...maybe package them together and get a core prospect. The rest will probably just bring back fodder

Valleyfella
06-14-2012, 07:46 AM
Why trade Escobar? He's good defensively, has a team friendly contract and is a year removed from being a productive hitter. He's also still quite young. Unless the Jays get an offer they can't refuse, there's no reason to trade him.

ILDD
06-14-2012, 08:25 AM
Why trade Escobar? He's good defensively, has a team friendly contract and is a year removed from being a productive hitter. He's also still quite young. Unless the Jays get an offer they can't refuse, there's no reason to trade him.

The only reason you trade him is that he has a great contract and he's a proven SS, that makes him valuable.

If you think that Hech is mlb ready then you can trade Escobar and bring up Hech without losing too much in production from SS. Combine that with the return you get from Escaobar (whcih should be pretty good) and the team gets better.

It's exactly the same with JPA and TdA - trading a relatively proven performer, bringing up the unproven prospect and getting a good player in return.

Would you rather have Arencibia, Escobar and Rajai Davis or d'Arnaud, Hechavarria and Justin Upton?

Don't get hung up on Justin Upton, I'm just using his name as an example. You can subsitute in a similar player who you think could be had for JPA, Escobar plus prospects.

Valleyfella
06-14-2012, 08:41 AM
The only reason you trade him is that he has a great contract and he's a proven SS, that makes him valuable.

If you think that Hech is mlb ready then you can trade Escobar and bring up Hech without losing too much in production from SS. Combine that with the return you get from Escaobar (whcih should be pretty good) and the team gets better.

It's exactly the same with JPA and TdA - trading a relatively proven performer, bringing up the unproven prospect and getting a good player in return.

Would you rather have Arencibia, Escobar and Rajai Davis or d'Arnaud, Hechavarria and Justin Upton?

Don't get hung up on Justin Upton, I'm just using his name as an example. You can subsitute in a similar player who you think could be had for JPA, Escobar plus prospects.

I agree that if the return is great, as with any player, you make the trade. I also agree that shopping JPA with the apparently major league ready D"Arnaud waiting in the wings is a good idea. I'm not as sure that Hech is ready to replace Escobar and, even if he is, Johnson is likely to go and the Jays don't have a second baseman to replace him. I'd prefer keeping Escobar and letting Hech take second or vice versa. Quality middle infielders are hard to find.

Sanyo
06-14-2012, 10:21 AM
A Justin Upton trade is iffy right now -- he's not playing to his full potential and hence teams will not give up 4 top prospects for him. Arizona will see him as the God of all Gods and demand a ransom.

Either way unless a team is close to the playoffs and have a lot of prospects to give (which at the moment is virtually none) Upton will either remain a D Back or they will have to accept less for him. I could see three prospects (one top 5 and another two maybe top 10 or 15) but four is definitely pushing it. Upton salary also spikes to $14 mil plus the last two years of his deal and his war is not all that pleasing at the moment...

masTOR_shake1
06-14-2012, 10:59 AM
trade joey bats

bartron_44
06-14-2012, 11:56 AM
D'Arnuad and Hech need to find their way to the big leagues...like tomorrow.

It's pretty obvious D'Arnaud isn't being tested in Vegas, but Hech is also making AAA look easy, and is ready for the next test too imo. He has now played 86 games in AAA with a slash of .348/.392/.876, and he is great against left handed pitching. He is hitting .391 with 18 hits in his last 10 games. With Escobar and Johnson both slumping, I don't see why we wouldn't trade one of them, and soon.

Converged
06-14-2012, 01:34 PM
This has been discussed before, but what are people's thoughts on Escobar moving to 2B and bring Hech to play SS?

Is it simply because Yunel is much more valuable as a SS? I would assume that if he has the range to play SS, he could play 2B. He has a great arm so it would be wasted at 2B, but he would be an above average offensive and defensive player imo.

Thoughts?

rapsjaysfan88
06-14-2012, 01:40 PM
are we a decent bp, 2 position players, and a starter away from contention? if not should we go full youth rebuild, bring up the young guys to get there feet wet and trade yunel, kj, ee, jose and hope we get a big prospect haul that will help us contend for the division in 2 ish years? im not sure what to do.

Eagles4Lyfe
06-14-2012, 01:53 PM
Were a decent BP, a sick 4th hitter and a pitcher preferably an ace away from competing.
If Jose from last year re-emerges then he has the possibility of carrying us in the playoffs ala Pujols vs the astros a few years back. If Morrow regains his form

Ace-Morrow-Romero is more than enough of a 3 man rotation to go through the playoffs. But again BP has to get shored up big time.

Twitchy
06-14-2012, 03:17 PM
Bautista has a 1.000 OPS over his last 40 games with 16 home runs over that time. I think it's safe to say he's been carrying the offence. It's a matter of getting pitching at this point.

wagnall
06-14-2012, 03:34 PM
Escobar has played 2nd before, all be it not many games. He played in the minors some 2nd and at Atlanta when they brought him up in 2007 they started him at 2nd, then to SS then to 3rd all in the same 1st year. So I would think 2nd would not be foriegn territory for him.

Just some info. :):)

town123
06-14-2012, 04:40 PM
I'd deal KJ, Oliver and Deck (if possible) to DET for Jacob Turner. Said it weeks ago they need a 2B and BP to get into the playoffs and excel.

bartron_44
06-14-2012, 05:13 PM
I think EE,KJ and Darren Oliver should be a good enough package to get a stud prospect from a contender. Especially one in the American League.

I wonder what it would take to get Addison Reed away from the White Sox?

wagnall
06-14-2012, 05:30 PM
^^ Read that Detroit is going to get active. Heard they are interested in Quentin and may look at moving Peralta for right price. I don't get that as they are dead at 2nd, why deal
your SS. Turner is interesting.

They have a 1st baseman in Erie who will never see the light of day with Fielder there, Jordan Lennerton from Langley B.C. 26, 6'2" 217 lefty, 286/375/502/877 in 61 games with 11 hrs.

Much better against righties.

righties 307/416/547/963
lefties 239/268/403/671

Kind of old for a prospect. Thought he was younger, so forget all this..:o:o:o

wagnall
06-14-2012, 05:40 PM
What really kills me is we still have no idea who's playing LF. we've had, Thames, Davis, Fransisco, throw in a touch of McCoy and EE. Snider should be up after rehab, give him the rest of the year to show what he has. And I see Lind coming back for another look see.:)