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amos1er
06-10-2012, 08:27 PM
Both Lebron James and Kevin Durant are huge cash cows for David Stern right now. Stern has pulled a lot of strings to get his top 2 pets to the finals (game 2 of the ECF and game 6 for the WCF) for this match up which will draw in huge $$$.

Both have been marketed to the extreme and both are equally overrated by their loyal fans. They are arguably the two best players in the NBA right now, but who would Stern rather see get a ring? I guess the real question is which one of these two would David Stern financially benefit from more.

They both play the same position and will be guarding each other for long stretches of the finals. Since they both average a ton of FT attempts, how will Stern be able to make sure both of them maintain their averages to 12+ FT attempts per game with out fouling either of them out of the game. I'm sure that they will use the old transfer the foul to a non-superstar role player trick a few times, but that can only account for so many fouls. Its going to be very hard for Stern to get them to the line as much as they are used to because he can't risk getting either one in foul trouble. What a dilemma.

I'm guessing that Stern will give Lebron more special treatment at the end of the day because Lebron is older and needs the ring more than Durant. At age 23 KD has plenty of time for Stern to get him a ring so he'll address the problem of getting Lebron a ring first. Also, the Thunder have HCA in the finals, so Stern will surely have to go the extra mile and give Lebron that much more special treatment IMO. Basically, I can see KD averaging 7-8 FTA and Lebron averaging 12-14 FTA.

justinnum1
06-10-2012, 08:30 PM
good question, i am going to say Lebron, only because he attacks the rim, but KD will get plenty

Blitzbolt
06-10-2012, 08:30 PM
James Harden.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 08:36 PM
James Harden.

No, but since Lebron and KD both will be guarding each other, Harden will have to absorb some transfered fouls via the refs to keep Durant out of foul trouble.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 08:38 PM
Neither. Games will be cancelled because of constant *****ing about the refs. Aren't you supposed to be banned? You lost our bet.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 08:41 PM
Neither. Games will be cancelled because of constant *****ing about the refs. Aren't you supposed to be banned? You lost our bet.

I never agreed to the thread you made. I only agreed to the comparison of D-Whistle and Pippen...which I won by the way.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 08:43 PM
That's fine. Stay. We all know what kind of person you are. A hater and a bandwagon Lakers fan who wanted the Celtics to win.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 08:46 PM
That's fine. Stay. We all know what kind of person you are. A hater and a bandwagon Lakers fan who wanted the Celtics to win.

I actually live in LA, and every Lakers fan I know wanted the Celtics over the Heat.

bucketss
06-10-2012, 08:53 PM
hopefully lebron joe crawford :love:

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 08:56 PM
I actually live in LA, and every Lakers fan I know wanted the Celtics over the Heat.

Then you don't know any true fans. Easy to pick out the frontrunners in the LA fanbase recently.

4 POINT PLAY LJ
06-10-2012, 08:59 PM
It's sad that we are fighting over officiating for the FINALS. The nba has come to an era of overpaid, soft and talent-less players.

I remember when there was a star on almost every team (1990s). Not like now; a star or a semi good player for like 8 out of 29 teams.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 09:06 PM
Then you don't know any true fans. Easy to pick out the frontrunners in the LA fanbase recently.

Ya, well ur opinion means **** to me anyways so who cares.

bucketss
06-10-2012, 09:06 PM
That's fine. Stay. We all know what kind of person you are. A hater and a bandwagon Lakers fan who wanted the Celtics to win.

kobe fan*

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 09:13 PM
kobe fan*

My fault. Will be interesting to see how many of these "Lakers" (as you say "Kobe") fans are around here in 2-3 years when he is retired or with another team.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 09:17 PM
It's sad that we are fighting over officiating for the FINALS. The nba has come to an era of overpaid, soft and talent-less players.

I remember when there was a star on almost every team (1990s). Not like now; a star or a semi good player for like 8 out of 29 teams.

Yup, I was just watching and interview with Magic and Bird remembering what it used to be like when I was a kid. That was the NBA I loved. Now its a bunch of corrupt people in charge and overpaid flopping bratty athletes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAg1Y9fqSpw

Lord Leoshes
06-10-2012, 09:19 PM
It should be Bron cause his game is more of driving to the hole & taking contact, while Durant is best at avoiding the contact to be able to get off a clean shot.

knicksfan42
06-10-2012, 09:22 PM
The refs are going to spontaneously combus is what's going to happen.

bucketss
06-10-2012, 09:24 PM
It's sad that we are fighting over officiating for the FINALS. The nba has come to an era of overpaid, soft and talent-less players.

I remember when there was a star on almost every team (1990s). Not like now; a star or a semi good player for like 8 out of 29 teams.

are you saying there was parity back than?

amos1er
06-10-2012, 09:27 PM
My fault. Will be interesting to see how many of these "Lakers" (as you say "Kobe") fans are around here in 2-3 years when he is retired or with another team.

Yes it will be interesting, but what I really find interesting is how many "Cavs" fans there were on PSD back in 2010. Now there is not one to be found. :rolleyes:

amos1er
06-10-2012, 09:29 PM
The refs are going to spontaneously combus is what's going to happen.

:laugh2:

Nice sig.

Supreme LA
06-10-2012, 09:31 PM
Then you don't know any true fans. Easy to pick out the frontrunners in the LA fanbase recently.

I'm a true fan. Been a Laker fan for 22 years. I was also rooting for Boston over Miami as much as most NBA fans were. I liked pulling for the old guys and hopefully see them stay intact before the NBA fully transitions to an all athletic and no fundamentals game. That's basically what will happen when KG, Ray, Kobe, TD, Nash, Pierce, Gasol, and Kidd retire.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 09:32 PM
Yes it will be interesting, but what I really find interesting is how many "Cavs" fans there were in here back in 2010. Now there is not one to be found. :rolleyes:

I have seen plenty of Cavs fans. What people fail to understand is that basketball is not a high profile sport any more. You have casual fans who watch because who really wants to watch hockey and regular season baseball. I think most people follow players now than actual teams.

On top of that I think people that follow teams also follow other players. Basketball is lacking in talent and I understand why diehard Warriors fans would want to watch other players/teams.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 09:34 PM
I'm a true fan. Been a Laker fan for 22 years. I was also rooting for Boston over Miami as much as most NBA fans were. I liked pulling for the old guys and hopefully see them stay intact before the NBA fully transitions to an all athletic and no fundamentals game. That's basically what will happen when KG, Ray, Kobe, TD, Nash, Pierce, Gasol, and Kidd retire.

Not a true Lakers fan. NBA fan sure. Like the Lakers sure. But a true fan. Nope. No true fan would root for the Celtics. Even ask Magic Johnson.

bucketss
06-10-2012, 09:35 PM
I'm a true fan. Been a Laker fan for 22 years. I was also rooting for Boston over Miami as much as most NBA fans were. I liked pulling for the old guys and hopefully see them stay intact before the NBA fully transitions to an all athletic and no fundamentals game. That's basically what will happen when KG, Ray, Kobe, TD, Nash, Pierce, Gasol, and Kidd retire.

haha this is amazing i think we finally found out a way to separate the leaches from the real fans.

Supreme LA
06-10-2012, 09:37 PM
Not a true Lakers fan. NBA fan sure. Like the Lakers sure. But a true fan. Nope. No true fan would root for the Celtics. Even ask Magic Johnson.

No true Laker fan would root for the C's?

You're talking to one and I just did.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 09:39 PM
No true Laker fan would root for the C's?

You're talking to one and I just did.

Then you aren't a Lakers fan. Sorry. I was listening to LA talk radio and they were flaming people like you the other day.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 09:39 PM
I have seen plenty of Cavs fans. What people fail to understand is that basketball is not a high profile sport any more. You have casual fans who watch because who really wants to watch hockey and regular season baseball. I think most people follow players now than actual teams.

On top of that I think people that follow teams also follow other players. Basketball is lacking in talent and I understand why diehard Warriors fans would want to watch other players/teams.

I agree that people follow players and not teams. David Stern knows that too and he has capitalized on that tremendously....In fact he banks on it...no pun intended.

Funny how you call me a bandwaggoner, seeing as how I have followed the Lakers most of my life. I was born and raised in LA and thats just the team I grew up with. You should see my basketball card collection...I have all the old Laker teams with Magic and Kareem. I even own a Magic Johnson autograph that I have owned and has been up on my wall since age 10.

greg_ory_2005
06-10-2012, 09:39 PM
Whoever is playing at home.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 09:41 PM
Then you aren't a Lakers fan. Sorry. I was listening to LA talk radio and they were flaming people like you the other day.

If some washed up radio jockey says its true it must be...:rolleyes:

Supreme LA
06-10-2012, 09:41 PM
Then you aren't a Lakers fan. Sorry. I was listening to LA talk radio and they were flaming people like you the other day.

So?? Like that means anything.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 09:42 PM
I agree that people follow players and not teams. David Stern knows that too and he has capitalized on that tremendously....In fact he banks on it...no pun intended.

Funny how you call me a bandwaggoner, seeing as how I have followed the Lakers most of my life. I was born and raised in LA and thats just the team I grew up with. You should see my basketball card collection...I have all the old Laker teams with Magic and Kareem. I even own a Magic Johnson autograph that I have owned and has been up on my wall since age 10.

The NBA floundered big time when they kept expanding the league with teams. Now we have 5 california teams, 3 Florida teams, 3 Texas teams, basically 2 NY teams. Why keep expanding and thinning out the talent. No one wants to watch the Bobcats 1 decent player and a bunch of starting bench players.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 09:43 PM
So?? Like that means anything.

It means the real LA fans think of you as frontrunning scum. Which to me is funny.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 09:43 PM
Then you aren't a Lakers fan. Sorry. I was listening to LA talk radio and they were flaming people like you the other day.

Also, most of the Lakers fans who rooted for the Celtics, knew that the C's would get their ***** handed to them by either OKC or San Antonio so its really a moot point.

Wade>You
06-10-2012, 09:45 PM
LeBron James.

Bath salts.

Rigged.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 09:46 PM
It means the real LA fans think of you as frontrunning scum. Which to me is funny.

What is it that makes some clown radio jockey anointed enough to dub who is and who is not a "true Laker fan".

Supreme LA
06-10-2012, 09:49 PM
It means the real LA fans think of you as frontrunning scum. Which to me is funny.

So, what's with the generalizations??

Laker fans love the Lakers and NEVER root for the C's.

Black people love chicken and never swim.

Really?? You're ignorant and to me that's funny.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 09:50 PM
What is it that makes some clown radio jockey anointed enough to dub who is and who is not a "true Laker fan".

It was that plus all the quotes from former Lakers players that said that fans now don't understand the rivalry between LA and Boston.

ManRam
06-10-2012, 09:52 PM
Whoever is more aggressive :shrug:

Whoever earns more :shrug:

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 09:52 PM
So, what's with the generalizations??

Laker fans love the Lakers and NEVER root for the C's.

Black people love chicken and never swim.

Really?? You're ignorant and to me that's funny.

Yup that is what I said. It is former Lakers and LA sports media that are calling you out. I agree with them. Lakers fans, at least true Lakers fans, don't like Boston and in no circumstance would. They would rather root for Fidel Castro than root for boston.

Supreme LA
06-10-2012, 09:53 PM
It was that plus all the quotes from former Lakers players that said that fans now don't understand the rivalry between LA and Boston.

No, we do understand it but it's not like they raped my daughter or something. I have my choice and so do other fans. What someone else says means absolutely nothing to me.

Supreme LA
06-10-2012, 09:54 PM
Yup that is what I said. It is former Lakers and LA sports media that are calling you out. I agree with them. Lakers fans, at least true Lakers fans, don't like Boston and in no circumstance would. They would rather root for Fidel Castro than root for boston.

Well, that's just what you believe and I'm fine leaving you to your ignorance.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 09:55 PM
Then why are you arguing it? Is it because deep down you know if it wasn't for Kobe and his 5 rings you wouldn't be a Lakers fan?

Wade>You
06-10-2012, 09:55 PM
Then why are you arguing it? Is it because deep down you know if it wasn't for Kobe and his 5 rings you wouldn't be a Lakers fan?You mean David Stern and his 5 rings. ;)

Losoway
06-10-2012, 09:55 PM
lebron ...KD rarely attacks rim

amos1er
06-10-2012, 09:56 PM
The NBA floundered big time when they kept expanding the league with teams. Now we have 5 california teams, 3 Florida teams, 3 Texas teams, basically 2 NY teams. Why keep expanding and thinning out the talent. No one wants to watch the Bobcats 1 decent player and a bunch of starting bench players.

Ya, and it really sucks for the fans. But its great if you have a vested interest in the profitability of the NBA. David Stern through his corruption has made a lot of people rich over the years at the expense of the fans. From a business stand point, Stern is a genius and has taken the NBA to financial hights that no one could have imagined. From a moral standpoint, he had raped the integrity of sport. David Stern is an ethical failure, but a monetary winner.

ManRam
06-10-2012, 09:56 PM
It's amazing to me that people are crazy enough to believe is this all powerful being that can control each and every play.

Conspiracy theorists FTW!

It doesn't matter who wins at this point. The two best teams made it, and regardless who wins, the league is gonna be in a great place.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 09:59 PM
You mean David Stern and his 5 rings. ;)

If you're referring to the 2002 Donaghy incident than I can express my thoughts for you who clearly did not watch that series.

For one, during the whole series, the Kings shot 204 FTs and the Lakers shot 185 FTs.

In the controversial game 6, the Lakers shot 15 more FTs than the Kings did for the whole game. What is often mentioned by people who did actually watch the whole series is that game 6 was the reversal of game 5, which the Kings got the beneficial calls that sealed the win for them.

Also, to point out, the largest FT discrepancy came in game 3, where the Kings shot 20 more FTs than the Lakers did. In game 2, the Kings shot 13 more FTs than the Lakers did.

Up until game 6, it was believed by many players that the Kings were getting lots of help. Mobley mentioned this on the Best Damn Sports Show between games 5 and 6.

In the end, the Kings had a 10+ FT advantage in 3 of the 7 games. The Lakers only had 1 game where they shot more than a double digit against the Kings. Kind of odd when one team has a near prime Shaq and a prime Kobe, no?

Watch the whole series and then let's talk. Until then, it's useless to debate.

bucketss
06-10-2012, 10:03 PM
fake laker fans root against anyone that takes on lebron including the celtics, basically lebron is public enemy number one for them.

Hotone1401
06-10-2012, 10:04 PM
Then why are you arguing it? Is it because deep down you know if it wasn't for Kobe and his 5 rings you wouldn't be a Lakers fan?

Dude, what is your problem. The guy just said he has been a fan for 22 yrs. You have your opinions and that's fine. You keeping questioning his fan hood like you have the handbook for what it takes to qualify being a Laker fan. You sound like an ignorant and immature child.

I'm another Laker fan who rooted for the C's to beat Miami. Been a fan for 14 yrs. You have something to say to me???

PatsSoxKnicks
06-10-2012, 10:04 PM
If you're referring to the 2002 Donaghy incident than I can express my thoughts for you who clearly did not watch that series.

For one, during the whole series, the Kings shot 204 FTs and the Lakers shot 185 FTs.

In the controversial game 6, the Lakers shot 15 more FTs than the Kings did for the whole game. What is often mentioned by people who did actually watch the whole series is that game 6 was the reversal of game 5, which the Kings got the beneficial calls that sealed the win for them.

Also, to point out, the largest FT discrepancy came in game 3, where the Kings shot 20 more FTs than the Lakers did. In game 2, the Kings shot 13 more FTs than the Lakers did.

Up until game 6, it was believed by many players that the Kings were getting lots of help. Mobley mentioned this on the Best Damn Sports Show between games 5 and 6.

In the end, the Kings had a 10+ FT advantage in 3 of the 7 games. The Lakers only had 1 game where they shot more than a double digit against the Kings. Kind of odd when one team has a near prime Shaq and a prime Kobe, no?

Watch the whole series and then let's talk. Until then, it's useless to debate.

lmao, seriously? So the NBA is rigged for the Heat/Lebron and Thunder/Durant but the Lakers aren't one of Stern's pets? Wow

You might be the most delusional fan I've ever come across. I suppose this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4KfNsFbLqg) isn't a foul either right? (Bibby was bleeding after that elbow...)

Yanks All Day
06-10-2012, 10:04 PM
Kevin Durant is a jump shooter. LeBron James attacks the rim. I'm gonna say LeBron on this one.

bucketss
06-10-2012, 10:05 PM
i mean i can understand to be neutral but to actually root for them is so messed up

Wade>You
06-10-2012, 10:05 PM
It's amazing to me that people are crazy enough to believe is this all powerful being that can control each and every play.

Conspiracy theorists FTW!

It doesn't matter who wins at this point. The two best teams made it, and regardless who wins, the league is gonna be in a great place.He's not all powerful, he can only control the officiating and the draft results.

The jobs not done, yet.

ManRam
06-10-2012, 10:06 PM
God I wish I wasn't on my phone and could moderate this...


Why are we talking about the Lakers? Why are we baiting the Bulls?

Oh...because this is PSD and we can't ever have a grown up discussion or keep anything on topic.

bucketss
06-10-2012, 10:07 PM
it must suck knowing the bulls will not contend for a title next year with rose out 75% of the season. I understans ur pain

hes not a bulls fan im 100% sure

Wade>You
06-10-2012, 10:07 PM
i mean i can understand to be neutral but to actually root for them is so messed upMost fans weren't around when the Celtics-Lakers rivalry was taking place. They had to have David Stern rekindle the rivalry just to make sure they still knew it once existed.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 10:08 PM
it must suck knowing the bulls will not contend for a title next year with rose out 75% of the season. I understans ur pain

Not a bulls fan. Next

Raps18-19 Champ
06-10-2012, 10:08 PM
Lebron earns more, so it's not hard to answer this question.

Wade>You
06-10-2012, 10:09 PM
God I wish I wasn't on my phone and could moderate this...


Why are we talking about the Lakers? Why are we baiting the Bulls?

Oh...because this is PSD and we can't ever have a grown up discussion or keep anything on topic.I wish you were, too. I've been reporting this crap and nothing's been done. This is why I'm joining in on the fun because they can't blame me when EVERYONE ELSE is doing it.

ManRam
06-10-2012, 10:09 PM
It's amazing to me that people are crazy enough to believe is this all powerful being that can control each and every play.

Conspiracy theorists FTW!

It doesn't matter who wins at this point. The two best teams made it, and regardless who wins, the league is gonna be in a great place.He's not all powerful, he can only control the officiating and the draft results.

The jobs not done, yet.

How?

People act like every call is a result of Stern's evil genius.

Why would he fix a Finals. I can't imagine how one team winning instead of the other helps the NBA out enough to risk fixing games...especially since fixing games could ruin the league. Risk isn't worth the reward. Just think about it

amos1er
06-10-2012, 10:10 PM
It's amazing to me that people are crazy enough to believe is this all powerful being that can control each and every play.

Conspiracy theorists FTW!

It doesn't matter who wins at this point. The two best teams made it, and regardless who wins, the league is gonna be in a great place.

It really wasn't the two best teams, because San Antonio was the best team in the west, they got robbed, and Chicago was the best team in the east and Rose got injured. I agree that Miami was better than Boston for sure, its just that with Bosh out, Stern had to step in and make sure Lebron got the job done. Truthfully, Boston should have won that series in 5 games. Game 2 was straight robbery. San Antonio and OKC should have gone to a game 7. Game 6 was one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen in my life.

If we are all just a bunch of wacky conspiracy theorists (nice ad hominem attack BTW ;)) than why hasn't Stern ever let a third party investigate how his officiating is conducted. Why does he use the same horrible old man refs in every important playoff game when every fan continues to complain about their horrible calls. Its why in boxing that they use the same corrupt judges when they need to fix a fight. Or maybe you think that Pacquiao lost fair and square also and that any one who says different is just a nutty conspiracy theorist too. Is anyone who questions the integrity of any organized sport out of line? Are we just supposed to believe its fair because they tell us it is? Can't we make our own judgements? Or are we not allowed? If you really do have so much faith in what people tell you and you never want to question their good word, then I have some great property I would love to sell you in Chernobyl. :rolleyes:

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 10:10 PM
How?

People act like every call is a result of Stern's evil genius.

Why would he fix a Finals. I can't imagine how one team winning instead of the other helps the NBA out enough to risk fixing games...especially since fixing games could ruin the league. Risk isn't worth the reward. Just think about it

Its not rigged. People want to say it is because it makes them feel better about their team. Why is there 30 threads like this all started by known LeBron/Heat Haters just to bait?

Chronz
06-10-2012, 10:12 PM
Yup, I was just watching and interview with Magic and Bird remembering what it used to be like when I was a kid. That was the NBA I loved. Now its a bunch of corrupt people in charge and overpaid flopping bratty athletes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAg1Y9fqSpw

LMFAO

The same **** was being said about the Lakers winning with phantom calls then too. The only difference is we didnt have the internet to compound the ignorance.

Your topic is ridiculous, ITS THE FINALS. Assuming he did pull strings to get them here (which if he did, he did a really poor job of it), hes got the matchup he wanted. There is no sense in risking the league anymore, he wins regardless.

Baller1
06-10-2012, 10:13 PM
Man, there are so many tools in the NBA Forum.

bucketss
06-10-2012, 10:13 PM
It really wasn't the two best teams, because San Antonio was the best team in the west, they got robbed, and Chicago was the best team in the east and Rose got injured. I agree that Miami was better than Boston for sure, its just that with Bosh out, Stern had to step in and make sure Lebron got the job done. Truthfully, Boston should have won that series in 5 games. Game 2 was straight robbery. San Antonio and OKC should have gone to a game 7. Game 6 was one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen in my life.

If we are all just a bunch of wacky conspiracy theorists (nice ad hominem attack BTW ;)) than why hasn't Stern ever let a third party investigate how his officiating is conducted. Why does he use the same horrible old man refs in every important playoff game when every fan continues to complain about their horrible calls. Its why in boxing that they use the same corrupt judges when they need to fix a fight. Or maybe you think that Pacquiao lost fair and square also and that any one who says different is just a nutty conspiracy theorist too. Is anyone who questions the integrity of any organized sport out of line? Are we just supposed to believe its fair because they tell us it is? Can't we make our own judgements? Or are we not allowed? If you really do have so much faith in what people tell you and you never want to question their good word, then I have some great property I would love to sell you in Chernobyl. :rolleyes:

chicago was not the best team in the east:facepalm:

Hotone1401
06-10-2012, 10:14 PM
Yes you are a Fake Fan.

Okay, we'll I guess everyone else I know here in Cali is too? Every Laker fan I know was also pulling for the C's to beat Miami. I'm sure that means nothing to you though.

Mikeleafs
06-10-2012, 10:14 PM
Unfortunately, Le***** will get the most calls this series...

amos1er
06-10-2012, 10:15 PM
How?

People act like every call is a result of Stern's evil genius.

Why would he fix a Finals. I can't imagine how one team winning instead of the other helps the NBA out enough to risk fixing games...especially since fixing games could ruin the league. Risk isn't worth the reward. Just think about it

Than why do people fix fights in boxing? Didn't you see the Pacquiao fight? If what you say is true, than wouldn't that apply to boxing as well? If the risk truly isn't worth the reward, than why did those judges so blatantly fix fights all the time. Why did Nixon involve himself in the Watergate scandal? He was already president, why risk anything? I'll tell you why, because it has happened all throughout history...people are greedy and if you give them a dollar they will always want 2 dollars. They get God complexes and think that they are untouchable. What really makes Stern untouchable is that there are fans like you out there who would never think to question him...well that is until its your team who is the one getting ****ed by the calls.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 10:15 PM
Okay, we'll I guess everyone else I know here in Cali is too? Every Laker fan I know was also pulling for the C's to beat Miami. I'm sure that means nothing to you though.

Yes all fake fans. You will be Clipper fans in about 2 years.

That is all I have to say. Man Ram wants us to stay on topic. Maybe another thread for another day.

Bruno
06-10-2012, 10:16 PM
Then you aren't a Lakers fan. Sorry. I was listening to LA talk radio and they were flaming people like you the other day.

who cares about that loyalist BS. good lakers fans respect the hell out of the Boston Celtics, both as a franchise and in their current incarnation. Us Laker fans who have been watching ball since the 1990's had plenty of reasons to root for the C's, as three of the best from our era were still playing at a high level. Nothing wrong with rooting for the C's to get to the finals, so long as they lose :)

Anybody actually think the C's could have kept up with the Thunder in a best of seven? Hell no.

ManRam
06-10-2012, 10:16 PM
It's amazing to me that people are crazy enough to believe is this all powerful being that can control each and every play.

Conspiracy theorists FTW!

It doesn't matter who wins at this point. The two best teams made it, and regardless who wins, the league is gonna be in a great place.

It really wasn't the two best teams, because San Antonio was the best team in the west, they got robbed, and Chicago was the best team in the east and Rose got injured. I agree that Miami was better than Boston for sure, its just that with Bosh out, Stern had to step in and make sure Lebron got the job done. Truthfully, Boston should have won that series in 5 games. Game 2 was straight robbery. San Antonio and OKC should have gone to a game 7. Game 6 was one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen in my life.

If we are all just a bunch of wacky conspiracy theorists (nice ad hominem attack BTW ;)) than why hasn't Stern ever let a third party investigate how his officiating is conducted. Why does he use the same horrible old man refs in every important playoff game when every fan continues to complain about their horrible calls. Its why in boxing that they use the same corrupt judges when they need to fix a fight. Or maybe you think that Pacquiao lost fair and square also and that any one who says different is just a nutty conspiracy theorist too. Is anyone who questions the integrity of any organized sport out of line? Are we just supposed to believe its fair because they tell us it is? Can't we make our own judgements? Or are we not allowed? If you really do have so much faith in what people tell you and you never want to question their good word, then I have some great property I would love to sell you in Chernobyl. :rolleyes:

It is a conspiracy because you have no proof. And yes, OKC was the better team. When those threes weren't falling for SA and Parker wasn't dropping 30, OKC was the better team.

Chicago better than Miami is not only debatable but irrelevant. They weren't the better team in the playoffs, obviously.


I don't think Pacquiao lost fairly...but what does that have to do with the NBA? Oh yeah, nothing.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 10:16 PM
chicago was not the best team in the east:facepalm:

In the regular season they were.

Chronz
06-10-2012, 10:16 PM
It's amazing to me that people are crazy enough to believe is this all powerful being that can control each and every play.

Conspiracy theorists FTW!

It doesn't matter who wins at this point. The two best teams made it, and regardless who wins, the league is gonna be in a great place.
Look at his sig, hes implying Stern could do anything about Deron if he wanted to, that tells you everything you need to know about him

Chronz
06-10-2012, 10:17 PM
He's not all powerful, he can only control the officiating and the draft results.

The jobs not done, yet.
Curious, how would he control draft results?

JordansBulls
06-10-2012, 10:17 PM
Doesn't really matter does it? It would be like Magic vs Bird in the Finals.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 10:17 PM
It is a conspiracy because you have no proof. And yes, OKC was the better team. When those threes weren't falling for SA and Parker wasn't dropping 30, OKC was the better team.

Chicago better than Miami is not only debatable but irrelevant. They weren't the better team in the playoffs, obviously.


I don't think Pacquiao lost fairly...but what does that have to do with the NBA? Oh yeah, nothing.

If it can happen in boxing, why can't it happen in the NBA? What makes the NBA more untouchable than boxing?

Hotone1401
06-10-2012, 10:17 PM
Yes all fake fans. You will be Clipper fans in about 2 years.

That is all I have to say. Man Ram wants us to stay on topic. Maybe another thread for another day.

Dude, you know nothing.

ManRam
06-10-2012, 10:18 PM
How?

People act like every call is a result of Stern's evil genius.

Why would he fix a Finals. I can't imagine how one team winning instead of the other helps the NBA out enough to risk fixing games...especially since fixing games could ruin the league. Risk isn't worth the reward. Just think about it

Than why do people fix fights in boxing? Didn't you see the Pacquiao fight? If what you say is true, than wouldn't that apply to boxing as well? If the risk truly isn't worth the reward, than why did those judges so blatantly fix fights all the time. Why did Nixon involve himself in the Watergate scandal? He was already president, why risk anything? I'll tell you why, because it has happened all throughout history...people are greedy and if you give them a dollar they will always want 2 dollars. They get God complexes and think that they are untouchable. What really makes Stern untouchable is that there are fans like you out there who would never think to question him...well that is until its your team who is the one getting ****ed by the calls.


No. Theres no governing body in boxing. Its completely and entirely different than the NBA. Who loses if they find out the match was fixed? The sport as a whole? Nah. Everyone won...because they all get paid.

Wade>You
06-10-2012, 10:18 PM
How?

People act like every call is a result of Stern's evil genius.

Why would he fix a Finals. I can't imagine how one team winning instead of the other helps the NBA out enough to risk fixing games...especially since fixing games could ruin the league. Risk isn't worth the reward. Just think about itI mean, I'm joking when I said that, don't know if you sensed the humor in it. But I do believe the officiating can stifle a team's momentum and never allow them to get going so a certain team has a better chance to win a game. They can also help another team out if the other team is blatantly getting away with something illegal repeatedly and they don't call it. Unless one team can overcome all that, the officiating can end up deciding the game rather than the players. All this helps keep the competition balanced and makes for a more entertaining series, except for the teams and their fans.

And the lottery can be rigged. Easy example, and this is off a tv show, but you can paint the balls you want to come up for the winning combination with a metal led and put a magnet above it so they come out when the ball is drawn. Of course, we don't even know if a lottery process exists, because only a few people see it and they can be paid off.

bucketss
06-10-2012, 10:20 PM
Okay, we'll I guess everyone else I know here in Cali is too? Every Laker fan I know was also pulling for the C's to beat Miami. I'm sure that means nothing to you though.

there really arent alot of true laker fans around maybe its because they never lose so the waggon is open for service 24/7

Bruno
06-10-2012, 10:21 PM
if the OP wanted better responses to his question, he shouldn't have packed the OP with personal opinionated commentary (unrelated to the question). You have to frame the question/debate with less bias in order to get legitimate answers. The question is interesting but this turns into a troll thread because of the way the OP was framed (and thread-derailers took the bait).

To stay on topic, I think it will be LeBron. But, do Wade and LeBron combine for more FTs than Durant, Harden and WB? Doubt it.

Chronz
06-10-2012, 10:22 PM
It really wasn't the two best teams, because San Antonio was the best team in the west, they got robbed, and Chicago was the best team in the east and Rose got injured. I agree that Miami was better than Boston for sure, its just that with Bosh out, Stern had to step in and make sure Lebron got the job done. Truthfully, Boston should have won that series in 5 games. Game 2 was straight robbery. San Antonio and OKC should have gone to a game 7. Game 6 was one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen in my life.
LOL if he was helping the Thunder then why did he miss so many easy calls for them? Truthfully, Boston got alot of the calls their way in G4 and G5 but you wont mention those because it doesnt fit your agenda.


If we are all just a bunch of wacky conspiracy theorists (nice ad hominem attack BTW ;)) than why hasn't Stern ever let a third party investigate how his officiating is conducted. Why does he use the same horrible old man refs in every important playoff game when every fan continues to complain about their horrible calls. Its why in boxing that they use the same corrupt judges when they need to fix a fight. Or maybe you think that Pacquiao lost fair and square also and that any one who says different is just a nutty conspiracy theorist too. Is anyone who questions the integrity of any organized sport out of line? Are we just supposed to believe its fair because they tell us it is? Can't we make our own judgements? Or are we not allowed? If you really do have so much faith in what people tell you and you never want to question their good word, then I have some great property I would love to sell you in Chernobyl. :rolleyes:

Having a third party involved doesnt change people from thinking the lottery is rigged why would officiating be any different? And how exactly would they get involved?

And show me the stats on these old man refs plz, you seem well versed, show me the facts.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 10:22 PM
I don't understand what is fixed in the current NBA? The two best teams made the Finals. Nothing seems odd about that. Neither are large market teams. They have good players. Those good players attract viewers. If these players were on the the Bobcats and Warriors this would still be the most watched finals in history. The players, I repeat the players are the reason these teams are i nthe Finals. Not David Stern. Don't take away their acheivements because you wear a tinfoil hat.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 10:25 PM
LMFAO

The same **** was being said about the Lakers winning with phantom calls then too. The only difference is we didnt have the internet to compound the ignorance.

Your topic is ridiculous, ITS THE FINALS. Assuming he did pull strings to get them here (which if he did, he did a really poor job of it), hes got the matchup he wanted. There is no sense in risking the league anymore, he wins regardless.

Maybe you're right and Stern does win regardless. But if he is going to help anyone, its got to be Lebron because he is older and needs a ring more...Not to mention he has more sponsors. People are greedy and always will risk more. Nixon risked his presidency on some scandal, why wouldn't Stern take little risk for some more money. It's not like anyone can stop him anyways. He is not committing a crime or anything...its entertainment after all. He thinks he is untouchable just like the guys who rigged the game show 21 thought they were untouchable. Ever see the movie Quizshow? There are a lot of parallels that can be drawn...

ManRam
06-10-2012, 10:26 PM
The difference between boxing being fixed and the NBA being fixed is simple. In the NBA you're alleging that the league itself is fixing it. In boxing, there's no governing body so it probably has to be agents, a rogue person or whatever. There's much less for those corrupting it to lose as compared to the NBA and it's supernatural/all-powerful commissioner. It's not the controllers of the sport itself...

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 10:27 PM
Maybe you're right and Stern does win regardless. But if he is going to help anyone, its got to be Lebron because he is older and needs a ring more...Not to mention he has more sponsors. People are greedy and always will risk more. Nixon risked his presidency on some scandal, why wouldn't Stern take little risk for some more money. It's not like anyone can stop him anyways. He is not committing a crime or anything...its entertainment after all. He thinks he is untouchable just like the guys who rigged the game show 21 thought they were untouchable. Ever see the movie Quizshow? There are a lot of parallels that can be drawn...

Does anyone have proof that David Stern recieves kickbacks for getting teams to the Finals? No. Well that is funny, even Watergate got revealed in time.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 10:27 PM
Look at his sig, hes implying Stern could do anything about Deron if he wanted to, that tells you everything you need to know about him

I don't actually believe that. :facepalm: Its called satirical humor. :D

Hawkeye15
06-10-2012, 10:30 PM
LeBron, due to the fact I doubt he is guarded much by Durant. And Bron doesn't pick up fouls. I predict a 10+ FT cushion for LeBron in this series.

ManRam
06-10-2012, 10:30 PM
Maybe you're right and Stern does win regardless. But if he is going to help anyone, its got to be Lebron because he is older and needs a ring more...Not to mention he has more sponsors. People are greedy and always will risk more. Nixon risked his presidency on some scandal, why wouldn't Stern take little risk for some more money. It's not like anyone can stop him anyways. He is not committing a crime or anything...its entertainment after all. He thinks he is untouchable just like the guys who rigged the game show 21 thought they were untouchable. Ever see the movie Quizshow? There are a lot of parallels that can be drawn...

Does anyone have proof that David Stern recieves kickbacks for getting teams to the Finals? No. Well that is funny, even Watergate got revealed in time.

Of course there's no proof and that's why it's a conspiracy and that's why he shouldn't be upset when we label it as so.


Too many people would have to get involved to make this elaborate fixing scheme work...especially if you think everything from the draft to individual games are fixed. Someone would have come forward by now. The money they could make by exposing this all would be massive. They could take down an entire professional league.

The reward isn't worth the risk...especially in these Finals. The league isn't gonna prosper that much more with one team winning over the other. It literally would make no sense.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 10:31 PM
Does anyone have proof that David Stern recieves kickbacks for getting teams to the Finals? No. Well that is funny, even Watergate got revealed in time.

Stern did get revealed. Tim Donaghy???

And I'm sure more will be revealed in time. Why doesn't he let a third party organization investigate him? What is he so afraid of.

Stern is revealed, and what you don't realize is that he can't go to jail for what he is doing. Its entertainment. He is not committing a crime, he is doing his job by entertaining you. Stern has a great legal mind and he knows he really isn't risking anything by rigging the league. He has everything to gain and nothing to lose.

I may have to absolute proof that he is rigging it, but I do have a lot of circumstantial evidence. contrastingly you have no proof that he isn't rigging it.

Funny, I can provide more examples of foul play than you can find exalting him of all charges.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 10:33 PM
Of course there's no proof and that's why it's a conspiracy and that's why he shouldn't be upset when we label it as so.


Too many people would have to get involved to make this elaborate fixing scheme work...especially if you think everything from the draft to individual games are fixed. Someone would have come forward by now. The money they could make by exposing this all would be massive. They could take down an entire professional league.

The reward isn't worth the risk...especially in these Finals. The league isn't gonna prosper that much more with one team winning over the other. It literally would make no sense.


People will say Tim Donaughy but they forget that he was fixing games for person gain. The league didn't tell him to do it. This conspiracy stuff is weak and lacks that stuff they I like.....what is it called......oh yeah facts.

creamed corn
06-10-2012, 10:33 PM
Stern did get revealed. Tim Donaghy???

And I'm sure more will be revealed in time. Why doesn't he let a third party organization investigate him? What is he so afraid of.

Stern is revealed, and what you don't realize is that he can't go to jail for what he is doing. Its entertainment. He is not committing a crime, he is doing his job by entertaining you. Stern has a great legal mind and he knows he really isn't risking anything by rigging the league. He has everything to gain and nothing to lose.

yeah, just his job, his legacy, and possible jail time.

Wade>You
06-10-2012, 10:36 PM
To me, I think technical fouls are the biggest white collar racket.

You get bad calls up to the point where your lose your temper and are forced to get in the refs face. Then he hits you up with the tech and that buys you calls for that game. If you do like the Celtics and pick up 10 techs, that buys you games 3-7

Since most coaches will be fired if their team loses, they're forced to pay up if they want their team to get calls and for them to keep their job.

In Stern's tenure as a Commissioner w/ the NBA, I'm sure he's collected over $30mil at least based off all the techs and criticism of the officials.

creamed corn
06-10-2012, 10:38 PM
Of course there's no proof and that's why it's a conspiracy and that's why he shouldn't be upset when we label it as so.


Too many people would have to get involved to make this elaborate fixing scheme work...especially if you think everything from the draft to individual games are fixed. Someone would have come forward by now. The money they could make by exposing this all would be massive. They could take down an entire professional league.

The reward isn't worth the risk...especially in these Finals. The league isn't gonna prosper that much more with one team winning over the other. It literally would make no sense.

you underestimate the power stern possesses. with the money he has he could hire the best hypnotists in the world to put the refs under his control

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 10:38 PM
yeah, just his job, his legacy, and possible jail time.

haha exactly. These people are really funny to talk to. Could you imagine what would happen to him if this were anything but a conspiracy theory. Why in the hell would Stern have the Spurs in the finals so often if he was worried about ratings? They were some of the the least watched finals in recent history. Same goes for the Pistons.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 10:38 PM
Of course there's no proof and that's why it's a conspiracy and that's why he shouldn't be upset when we label it as so.


Too many people would have to get involved to make this elaborate fixing scheme work...especially if you think everything from the draft to individual games are fixed. Someone would have come forward by now. The money they could make by exposing this all would be massive. They could take down an entire professional league.

The reward isn't worth the risk...especially in these Finals. The league isn't gonna prosper that much more with one team winning over the other. It literally would make no sense.

I'm sure in the 1950's people thought that there would be no way to rig a quiz show either right? But guess what, it happened. People thought that there was no way the McDonnalds Monopoly game was rigged, but guess what, it was. It does happen and will continue to happen. If you don't want to believe it, than thats fine, but that doesn't mean that you know for sure that its not happening. Remember you have no proof, other than Stern's word, that it isn't rigged either.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 10:41 PM
yeah, just his job, his legacy, and possible jail time.

Ha, shows what you actaully know. He couldn't go to jail for rigging the games. Its entertainment. He is not committing a crime. People watch for entertainment. There is no disclosure form that says all the games are officiated fairly, in fact, Stern will never admit that they are all perfect, thats what gives him the room to sway the calls to one team. If he says that all the calls are right (which he isn't stupid enough to) than he might be guilty of perjury at most.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 10:41 PM
I'm sure in the 1950's people thought that there would be no way to rig a quiz show either right? But guess what, it happened. People thought that there was no way the McDonnalds Monopoly game was rigged, but guess what, it was. It does happen and will continue to happen. If you don't want to believe it, than thats fine, but that doesn't mean that you know for sure that its not happening. Remember you have no proof, other than Stern's word, that it isn't rigged either.

Well the fact there isn't an open case within the US accusing the NBA of conspiracy, fraud, or anything of the like, then yes I will take Stern's word.

Fact is he files a tax return every year. He would have to explain the kickbacks to the IRS if there really were any. Funny how that darn IRS and FBI are the reason why most scams are brought out into the open........unless Stern has them under his control as well

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 10:43 PM
Ha, shows what you actaully know. He couldn't go to jail for rigging the games. Its entertainment. He is not committing a crime. People watch for entertainment. There is no disclosure form that says all the games are officiated fairly, in fact, Stern will never admit that they are all perfect, thats what gives him the room to sway the calls to one team. If he says that all the calls are right (which he isn't stupid enough to) than he might be guilty of perjury at most.

It is called fraud and conspiracy. Also since there is sports betting world wide dealing with the NBA which is legal. Then yes if he is fixing games there could be even more problems for him.

So. Shows how much you know.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 10:44 PM
Well the fact there isn't an open case within the US accusing the NBA of conspiracy, fraud, or anything of the like, then yes I will take Stern's word.

Fact is he files a tax return every year. He would have to explain the kickbacks to the IRS if there really were any. Funny how that darn IRS and FBI are the reason why most scams are brought out into the open........unless Stern has them under his control as well

The feds only came after Donaghy to get to Stern. They can't charge him with a crime because its entertainment. He isn't doing anything wrong by telling the officials to give one team more calls than the other. He doesn't get kick backs, he gets revenue when the rating for the finals go up and gets more fans by making superstars more attractive to the casual fan.

Chronz
06-10-2012, 10:45 PM
Maybe you're right and Stern does win regardless. But if he is going to help anyone, its got to be Lebron because he is older and needs a ring more...
Heres the thing with conspiracies, you can make an argument for the exact opposite stance with it sounding just as credible, the people who root for/against Bron will tune into the next season with equal curiosity. Some people mentioned it last year, that the refs were intentionally missing calls for Bron because they want him to keep being on the cusp but not yet over. Bill Simmons mentioned it in a podcast, "comeback for the sequel" or something.


Not to mention he has more sponsors. People are greedy and always will risk more. Nixon risked his presidency on some scandal, why wouldn't Stern take little risk for some more money. It's not like anyone can stop him anyways. He is not committing a crime or anything...its entertainment after all. He thinks he is untouchable just like the guys who rigged the game show 21 thought they were untouchable. Ever see the movie Quizshow? There are a lot of parallels that can be drawn...

Thats a horrible analogy, LOL do you even know what Watergate was about? Im no historian but from what Ive read he did it to gain information to try and stay in office. Stern is stepping down in a few years, what he has to gain here is very minimal unless your saying hes risking jail for Silvers benefit. And yes people can stop him, I dont know what makes you think its not a crime, him rigging the game/lottery can land him in the slammer. And unlike Nixon, I dont think Obama will show mercy and pardon him considering his love of the game.

But pretending you had a point, if Durant wins he will gain more sponsors as well. Either way the game will benefit. How this translates into significant cash for Stern is something you have yet to prove.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 10:46 PM
The feds only came after Donaghy to get to Stern. They can't charge him with a crime because its entertainment. He isn't doing anything wrong by telling the officials to give one team more calls than the other. He doesn't get kick backs, he gets revenue when the rating for the finals go up and gets more fans by making superstars more attractive to the casual fan.

No it is not entertainment. I think you fail to understand that. It is entertaining, but the NBA is a business. It has owners that run each team as a business. Just like steriods in the MLB guess what, illegal and players are getting in trouble for them.

naps
06-10-2012, 10:48 PM
lmfao! This Kobephile is mad. Now that Kobe is out of relevance NBA is rigged. Funny how Lakers have half of the championships in the last decade and NBA was fine but now that they are out fishing Kobephiles can't take it.

Grow the **** up and enjoy some Durant-Wade-LeBron-Westbrook.


Don't be mad because another gasol gift was blocked.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 10:49 PM
It is called fraud and conspiracy. Also since there is sports betting world wide dealing with the NBA which is legal. Then yes if he is fixing games there could be even more problems for him.

So. Shows how much you know.

HAHAHA ok. Something tells me I might know the law a bit better than you do buddy. No offense, but you have no idea what you are talking about. They did already come after Donaghy for sports betting and Donaghy accused David Stern of fixing games. Don't you know the way that the feds work? They come after the small fish only to get him to roll over on the big fish. You really think the feds gave a crap that Donaghy was making a few bucks on the side. If you do than you have a lot to learn about the world because they were likely targeting him to get to Stern. They wanted to expose him to the world because thats what gets guys like them off. They know they can't charge him with anything, but they make huge headlines and get to expose him on some level. Anyone who thinks that the NBA is fair after the Donaghy incident is in total denial. Trust me bro, I know a lot about how these things work.

Chronz
06-10-2012, 10:50 PM
I don't actually believe that. :facepalm: Its called satirical humor. :D
Its hard to tell with you, you say alot of **** and you actually believe it. If its sarcasm wheres the universal use of purple font?

naps
06-10-2012, 10:50 PM
Oh to answer the question:

The player who will attack the basket will get more FTA. Simple as that. Only if Kobe realized the importance of attacking and passing instead of being the greatest ballhog of all time, Lakers probably would have still been relevant.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 10:55 PM
HAHAHA ok. Something tells me I might know the law a bit better than you do buddy. No offense, but you have no idea what you are talking about. They did already come after Donaghy for sports betting and Donaghy accused David Stern of fixing games. Don't you know the way that the feds work? They come after the small fish only to get him to roll over on the big fish. You really think the feds gave a crap that Donaghy was making a few bucks on the side. If you do than you have a lot to learn about the world because they were likely targeting him to get to Stern. They wanted to expose him to the world because thats what gets guys like them off. They know they can't charge him with anything, but they make huge headlines and get to expose him on some level. Anyone who thinks that the NBA is fair after the Donaghy incident is in total denial. Trust me bro, I know a lot about how these things work.

Ok "bro". There is not 1 shred of evidence. Donaghy was making alot of money betting on the side. Do you think Pete Rose was brought up on charges to go after a "big fish".

There is no case on David Stern, because there is no evidence. There is no evidence because there is no conspiracy. When dealing with stuff like this it would be easy for the Federal Government to figure it out. David Stern still reports to the IRS and would have to explain these "kickbacks". Please tell me why in the 5 years after this Stern hasn't been brought up on charges? Oh yeah it is because there is no conspiracy.

You said nothing could happen to Stern if there was a conspiracy because it is entertainment. Then why would you say that the FBI is going after Donaghy to get to the "big fish" (Stern). You contradict yourself. If he can't get in trouble then why are they going after him.

#delusion #contradiction #youlose

amos1er
06-10-2012, 10:56 PM
Heres the thing with conspiracies, you can make an argument for the exact opposite stance with it sounding just as credible, the people who root for/against Bron will tune into the next season with equal curiosity. Some people mentioned it last year, that the refs were intentionally missing calls for Bron because they want him to keep being on the cusp but not yet over. Bill Simmons mentioned it in a podcast, "comeback for the sequel" or something.


Thats a horrible analogy, LOL do you even know what Watergate was about? Im no historian but from what Ive read he did it to gain information to try and stay in office. Stern is stepping down in a few years, what he has to gain here is very minimal unless your saying hes risking jail for Silvers benefit. And yes people can stop him, I dont know what makes you think its not a crime, him rigging the game/lottery can land him in the slammer. And unlike Nixon, I dont think Obama will show mercy and pardon him considering his love of the game.

But pretending you had a point, if Durant wins he will gain more sponsors as well. Either way the game will benefit. How this translates into significant cash for Stern is something you have yet to prove.

Rigging the lottery could possibly land him in the slammer only if the teams owners got together and pressed charges. Which they likely won't do because Stern makes them a lot of $$$$. Most likely, he wouldn't face jail time, he would just have to financially compensate the other teams that filed charges if he was found guilty. I'm sure that he would have to step down as commissioner as well. Also, the other teams can get together and vote him out at anytime. Why don't they? Again, they may ***** and cry about how corrupt he is and how he is rigging everything, but at the end of the day when they are cashing their huge paychecks, they forget about all of that stuff real fast.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 10:59 PM
Ok "bro". There is not 1 shred of evidence. Donaghy was making alot of money betting on the side. Do you think Pete Rose was brought up on charges to go after a "big fish".

There is no case on David Stern, because there is no evidence. There is no evidence because there is no conspiracy. When dealing with stuff like this it would be easy for the Federal Government to figure it out. David Stern still reports to the IRS and would have to explain these "kickbacks". Please tell me why in the 5 years after this Stern hasn't been brought up on charges? Oh yeah it is because there is no conspiracy.

You said nothing could happen to Stern if there was a conspiracy because it is entertainment. Then why would you say that the FBI is going after Donaghy to get to the "big fish" (Stern). You contradict yourself. If he can't get in trouble then why are they going after him.

#delusion #contradiction #youlose


Pete Rose was the big fish. :facepalm:

Again, you have no evidence that its not rigged. You lack the same burden of proof that I do in my argument. I say its most likely rigged, I have no proof. You say its not rigged, you have no proof. At the end of the day its differing opinions. Logically, your just as wacky as you accuse me of being for defending something you can't prove either.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 11:01 PM
Pete Rose was the big fish. :facepalm:

Again, you have no evidence that its not rigged. You lack the same burden of proof that I do in my argument. I say its most likely rigged, I have no proof. You say its not rigged, you have no proof. At the end of the day its differing opinions. Logically, your just as wacky as you accuse me of being for defending something you can't prove either.

You failed to defend your contradiction. Also how was a manager the big fish? They are dime a dozen. Big Fish would be a major player in the industry.

Chronz
06-10-2012, 11:02 PM
HAHAHA ok. Something tells me I might know the law a bit better than you do buddy. No offense, but you have no idea what you are talking about. They did already come after Donaghy for sports betting and Donaghy accused David Stern of fixing games. Don't you know the way that the feds work? They come after the small fish only to get him to roll over on the big fish. You really think the feds gave a crap that Donaghy was making a few bucks on the side. If you do than you have a lot to learn about the world because they were likely targeting him to get to Stern. They wanted to expose him to the world because thats what gets guys like them off. They know they can't charge him with anything, but they make huge headlines and get to expose him on some level. Anyone who thinks that the NBA is fair after the Donaghy incident is in total denial. Trust me bro, I know a lot about how these things work.
Your grasping at straws to state your case. Donaghy said alot of things that ended up being false, why would we trust a man who was caught gambling? Of course hes going to stick to his story, its what was keeping him out of prison.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 11:02 PM
Your grasping at straws to state your case. Donaghy said alot of things that ended up being false, why would we trust a man who was caught gambling? Of course hes going to stick to his story, its what was keeping him out of prison.

Bingo.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 11:03 PM
Ok "bro". There is not 1 shred of evidence. Donaghy was making alot of money betting on the side. Do you think Pete Rose was brought up on charges to go after a "big fish".

There is no case on David Stern, because there is no evidence. There is no evidence because there is no conspiracy. When dealing with stuff like this it would be easy for the Federal Government to figure it out. David Stern still reports to the IRS and would have to explain these "kickbacks". Please tell me why in the 5 years after this Stern hasn't been brought up on charges? Oh yeah it is because there is no conspiracy.

You said nothing could happen to Stern if there was a conspiracy because it is entertainment. Then why would you say that the FBI is going after Donaghy to get to the "big fish" (Stern). You contradict yourself. If he can't get in trouble then why are they going after him.

#delusion #contradiction #youlose

Its called newspaper headlines bro. Those guys get their rocks off on **** like that. They know that there is no way to convict him of anything, they just do it to drag his name through the mud. Just like when they got the head of NBC for rigging the game show 21. They knew he was doing it, they just convict him of a crime so they got everyone to speak against him for headlines. If they can't convict someone of a crime, the next best thing is to drag their name through the mud. Thats a fact.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 11:06 PM
Its called newspaper headlines bro. Those guys get their rocks off on **** like that. They know that there is no way to convict him of anything, they just do it to drag his name through the mud. Just like when they got the head of NBC for rigging the game show 21. They knew he was doing it, they just convict him of a crime so they got everyone to speak against him for headlines. If they can't convict someone of a crime, the next best thing is to drag their name through the mud. Thats a fact.

Well in the 5 years after Donaghy got busted, David Stern has not been called out in anyway by the sports media for manipulating games. The FBI or Federal government have said nothing of the sort. The only people who are are tin foil hat wearers. That seems odd to me. How could this be. Oh yeah there is no investigation, because there is no evidence, because there is no conspiracy.

Billion dollar organizations are scrutinized heavily by the IRS. Proof: I worked for the IRS.

Chronz
06-10-2012, 11:07 PM
Rigging the lottery could possibly land him in the slammer only if the teams owners got together and pressed charges. Which they likely won't do because Stern makes them a lot of $$$$. Most likely, he wouldn't face jail time, he would just have to financially compensate the other teams that filed charges if he was found guilty. I'm sure that he would have to step down as commissioner as well. Also, the other teams can get together and vote him out at anytime. Why don't they? Again, they may ***** and cry about how corrupt he is and how he is rigging everything, but at the end of the day when they are cashing their huge paychecks, they forget about all of that stuff real fast.
LMFAO, it would most definitely land him, his crew, and the 3rd party firm in prison, and whoever leaked the truth with actual evidence would make a name/fortune for himself. Im not buying your opinions because those owners would get money regardless of who was the commish. You need to work on this conspiracy thing. Just curious, do you believe Stern rigged the Finals vs the Celtics in favor of the Lakers? What about the showtime era, how many chips did he rig for you guys?

amos1er
06-10-2012, 11:07 PM
You failed to defend your contradiction. Also how was a manager the big fish? They are dime a dozen. Big Fish would be a major player in the industry.

Pete Rose would have been a hall of fame baseball player. They probly wanted him to roll over on someone, but he didn't. They grabbed plenty of headlines off Rose alone, that was a good score for them. Why are they going after Barry Bonds? Its very hard to prove anything and they know it. Again, they were looking for headlines and to drag his name through the mud.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 11:08 PM
Its hard to tell with you, you say alot of **** and you actually believe it. If its sarcasm wheres the universal use of purple font?

Good point, I guess I could change it to purple.

naps
06-10-2012, 11:10 PM
Man, there are so many tools in the NBA Forum.


I mean Lakers won 5 rings in last decade and NBA wasn't rigged but now it is :rolleyes:

Can you imagine a Lakers fan (Actually a Kobe fan to be exact because there's a difference between the two) claiming the league is rigged, when if it was they were the ones that benefited more than anyone else? :laugh2:


He's the biggest kobephile on this site. He's just mad because LeBron is the best player on the planet and Durant just kicked Kobe's ***.

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 11:11 PM
Pete Rose would have been a hall of fame baseball player. They probly wanted him to roll over on someone, but he didn't. They grabbed plenty of headlines off Rose alone, that was a good score for them. Why are they going after Barry Bonds? Its very hard to prove anything and they know it. Again, they were looking for headlines and to drag his name through the mud.

If the FBI was looking at David Stern like you say, and are using Tim Donaghy as a building block for the case then David Stern would be well aware of this. He would be having subpoena's to look through the NBA's financial records thrown at him quarterly. And if this was the case don't you think a person who has climbed the corporate ladder to Commisioner would have the common sense to stop rigging games.

Yet for some reason he is still doing it according to you and other fans. This makes no sense. Keep digging that illogical hole deeper.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 11:18 PM
LMFAO, it would most definitely land him, his crew, and the 3rd party firm in prison, and whoever leaked the truth with actual evidence would make a name/fortune for himself. Im not buying your opinions because those owners would get money regardless of who was the commish. You need to work on this conspiracy thing. Just curious, do you believe Stern rigged the Finals vs the Celtics in favor of the Lakers? What about the showtime era, how many chips did he rig for you guys?

I believe that the smoking gun for rigging games came after the infamous Jordan push off Russell no-call. Though there was most likely some amount of rigging going on before then, just got real bad after that. Anyone would have to be blind to not admit to the rigging of the 2002 WCF game 6. Though I do believe the Lakers were the better team and the best team won.

During the whole series, the Kings shot 204 FTs and the Lakers shot 185 FTs.

In the controversial game 6, the Lakers shot 15 more FTs than the Kings did for the whole game. What is often mentioned by people who did actually watch the whole series is that game 6 was the reversal of game 5, which the Kings got the beneficial calls that sealed the win for them.

Also, to point out, the largest FT discrepancy came in game 3, where the Kings shot 20 more FTs than the Lakers did. In game 2, the Kings shot 13 more FTs than the Lakers did.

Up until game 6, it was believed by many players that the Kings were getting lots of help. Mobley mentioned this on the Best Damn Sports Show between games 5 and 6.

In the end, the Kings had a 10+ FT advantage in 3 of the 7 games. The Lakers only had 1 game where they shot more than a double digit against the Kings. Kind of odd when one team has a near prime Shaq and a prime Kobe, no?

Again, you lack the same burden of proof that I have. You can't prove that its not rigged just like I can't prove that it is rigged. I have my opinion and you have yours. Only difference is that I don't use ad hominem insults on you for having a differing opinion. I state my opinion on here and am attacked vigorously for it. I have my opinion, you have yours, I can respect yours, why can't you respect mine. Its not like I am out of line here. Many people agree with me.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-10-2012, 11:21 PM
:laugh2:

Why the hell are you so hurt over Stern? When a man hurts your feelings this badly, you need to stop watching.

Let it go.

amos1er
06-10-2012, 11:21 PM
Your grasping at straws to state your case. Donaghy said alot of things that ended up being false, why would we trust a man who was caught gambling? Of course hes going to stick to his story, its what was keeping him out of prison.

Examples please...

Thats one way to look at it, another would be that he was telling the truth and made a deal for less prison time.

Again, you have no proof that what he says was false, just like I can't prove that it is true. Its just a difference of opinion.

naps
06-10-2012, 11:23 PM
:laugh2:

Why the hell are you so hurt over Stern? When a man hurts your feelings this badly, you need to stop watching.

Let it go.

Because:

1. Look at his sig.

2. LeBron is the greatest on the planet and Kobe is fishing.

3. Durant is so ****ing good who whooped Kobe's ***.

Chronz
06-10-2012, 11:28 PM
I believe that the smoking gun for rigging games came after the infamous Jordan push off Russell no-call. Though there was most likely some amount of rigging going on before then, just got real bad after that. Anyone would have to be blind to not admit to the rigging of the 2002 WCF game 6. Though I do believe the Lakers were the better team and the best team won.
Why was MJ the smoking gun and not the Showtime Lakers?


During the whole series, the Kings shot 204 FTs and the Lakers shot 185 FTs.

In the controversial game 6, the Lakers shot 15 more FTs than the Kings did for the whole game. What is often mentioned by people who did actually watch the whole series is that game 6 was the reversal of game 5, which the Kings got the beneficial calls that sealed the win for them.

Also, to point out, the largest FT discrepancy came in game 3, where the Kings shot 20 more FTs than the Lakers did. In game 2, the Kings shot 13 more FTs than the Lakers did.

Up until game 6, it was believed by many players that the Kings were getting lots of help. Mobley mentioned this on the Best Damn Sports Show between games 5 and 6.

In the end, the Kings had a 10+ FT advantage in 3 of the 7 games. The Lakers only had 1 game where they shot more than a double digit against the Kings. Kind of odd when one team has a near prime Shaq and a prime Kobe, no?

What about the Finals vs the Celtics, you conveniently ignored the question and brought up a series I have already defended with similar facts, the only difference between you and me is that I dont point to these facts as a conspiracy.


Again, you lack the same burden of proof that I have. You can't prove that its not rigged just like I can't prove that it is rigged. I have my opinion and you have yours. Only difference is that I don't use ad hominem insults on you are having a differing opinion.
LMFAO so your not portray people with differing opinions as blind sheep? LOL dude your entire agenda and defense is full of inconsistencies, contradictions, horrible analogies, and you totally ignore questions raised. I dont know what insults your talking about but I see you use that word (ad hominem) against everyone who picks apart your argument. Is that your word of the month or something? The real difference between us is that the burden of proof doesnt rest on my shoulders, your the one claiming the conspiracy remember, its not my fault youve done a piss poor job of proving it.


I state my opinion on here and am attacked vigorously for it. I have my opinion, you have yours, I can respect yours, why can't you respect mine. Its not like I am out of line here. Many people agree with me.
LOL, everything that has been said to you was a result of your own doing. And what insults are you talking about? I havent insulted you at all in my book, you on the other hand have generalized many of us.

Bruno
06-10-2012, 11:37 PM
Oh to answer the question:

The player who will attack the basket will get more FTA. Simple as that. Only if Kobe realized the importance of attacking and passing instead of being the greatest ballhog of all time, Lakers probably would have still been relevant.

troll.

this thread has nothing to do with kobe. you're just as bad as what you criticize sometimes.

pd1dish
06-10-2012, 11:37 PM
its Lebron and its not even close. just based off of their styles of play Lebron will draw more fouls. Lebron's main strength is going towards the basket and taking contact while Durant's strength is jump shooting.

The goods
06-10-2012, 11:39 PM
I'm going to pull a skip bayless and say LeBron and wade will get more calls than durant. Lol

ChitownBears22
06-10-2012, 11:51 PM
Examples please...

Thats one way to look at it, another would be that he was telling the truth and made a deal for less prison time.

Again, you have no proof that what he says was false, just like I can't prove that it is true. Its just a difference of opinion.

You have failed to reply to my last post. Why is this. Is it because you have nothing to say because you are in fact grasping at straws.

I don't have proof but I do have logic. The cool thing about the American justice system is that the burden of proof lies on the accuser/prosecuter.

You are the prosecuter in this debate and you have no proof. Therefore by American logic and human logic you are wrong. Go away troll.

Chronz
06-10-2012, 11:52 PM
Examples please...
There are too many to list but from what I remember from a review of his book, Donaghy talks about conversations hes had with Phil (Phil denies it), keep in mind that Tim describes Phil as someone who would be willing to openly discuss this matter and claims "Phil must have forgotten" as his explanation for why hes not, a locker room run in with Charles Barkley where he threw water on his head (Charles denies it), not only that but Donaghy was adamant that he would take a polygraph to admit to the occurrence, he backed out at the last second and thats when his publisher got weary of trusting him. That trust was further severed when he claimed to write the book while in prison and word got around that he had as many as 3 ghost writers taking the reigns.
He talks about a friendship between Joe Forte and Mike Fratello, which inspired him to pick Fratello's team to beat the spread when Forte reffed. In that period, Fratello's teams beat the spread less than half the time.

Some more I found on google.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11341/did-dick-bavetta-prop-up-weaker-teams

According to Donaghy, Bavetta’s tendency for keeping games close made him a favorite of the League. It also gave Donaghy an opportunity to capitalize:

From my earliest involvement with Bavetta, I learned that he likes to keep games close, and that when a team gets down by double-digit points, he helps the players save face. He accomplishes this act of mercy by quietly, and frequently, blowing the whistle on the team that’s having the better night. Team fouls suddenly become one-sided between the contestants, and the score begins to tighten up. That’s the way Dick Bavetta referees a game -- and everyone in the league knew it.



Aware of this propensity, Donaghy says he would often take the underdog when Bavetta was assigned to a game, and cash in as a result.

Since Donaghy maintains he made 70 percent or better on his money while leveraging these kinds of biases, we turned to economist Joe Price and his colleague Henry Tappen, who have performed extensive research on referee bias in the NBA. Price used his data sets to examine Donaghy’s claim that Bavetta systematically kept games close.

The results: Far from making 70 percent, that strategy would have lost you 12 percent of your money. In other words, choosing at random would have given you a better chance at success.

When confronted with this statistic by Henry Abbott, Donaghy balked. "I looked for spreads in games -- Bavetta games -- that were double-digit spreads," Donaghy said. "I'm telling you that, quite often, Dick Bavetta in the fourth quarter of games when the [lead] was 20 point or more, changed his style of officiating to where those games became closer. He would instruct other referees to change their style, too. He'd say, 'Let's not embarrass anyone. Get the marginal calls at one end, but not down at the other end of the floor.'"

Bavetta officiated 42 games between the beginning of the 2003-04 season and the end of the 2006-07 season where the closing betting line was 10 points or greater. The big underdogs in those contests went 17-25 against the spread -- a winning percentage of 40.1 percent. In other words, teams that were expected to be beaten badly were far more likely to be embarrassed when Bavetta was on the floor.

From Abbott
Also noteworthy is the decided lack of people who have his back. Does anyone with direct knowledge of refereeing who support his version of events? The truth has a way of attracting supporters among the knowledgeable. Where are the retired referees? They are silent -- even though one of them is Donaghy's uncle, Billy Oakes. Is there anyone on the planet who has both first-hand knowledge of what goes on among referees, and an inclination to vouch for Donaghy's version of events?



Thats one way to look at it, another would be that he was telling the truth and made a deal for less prison time.
Your not getting it, spreading gossip doesnt land you a deal, admitting the truth does but in this case the truth he admits to is gambling, he never admitted to "fixing" games by their legal definition, because if he did it would land him BACK IN JAIL. Thats why Stern would face serious jail time if he ever got caught fixing the game/draft. So would his employees involved and the 3rd party firm.



Again, you have no proof that what he says was false, just like I can't prove that it is true. Its just a difference of opinion.
There is no reason to lend credence to your opinion, all of your examples, comparisons, and references have been fallible. The facts dont support your hero. And the burden of proof doesnt rest on my shoulders, it lands squarely on the accuser. I thought you said you knew the law? LMFAO

creamed corn
06-11-2012, 12:06 AM
You have failed to reply to my last post. Why is this. Is it because you have nothing to say because you are in fact grasping at straws.

I don't have proof but I do have logic. The cool thing about the American justice system is that the burden of proof lies on the accuser/prosecuter.

You are the prosecuter in this debate and you have no proof. Therefore by American logic and human logic you are wrong. Go away troll.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BgW6L41c9Z4/Tm0jZgponjI/AAAAAAAABlI/RZf6izwpFrU/s1600/Springer.gif

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 12:09 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BgW6L41c9Z4/Tm0jZgponjI/AAAAAAAABlI/RZf6izwpFrU/s1600/Springer.gif

I dont know the context behind this. Please inform me.

LA_Raiders
06-11-2012, 12:11 AM
LeFlop, nuff said...

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 12:13 AM
LeFlop, nuff said...

LeWherethehellisKoberightnow?

You are good at nicknames. So clever

creamed corn
06-11-2012, 12:13 AM
I dont know the context behind this. Please inform me.

hes the midget who gets beaten up, youre the midget who wins

amos1er
06-11-2012, 12:17 AM
Why was MJ the smoking gun and not the Showtime Lakers?

It was a call that could have made or broken the outcome of that game. Had a push off been called, a game 7 would have happened for sure. It was the first time a non-call determined the outcome of a game of sure importance. Jordan's sixth ring and legacy was on the line on one call and it could have easily been called a push off, yet it wasn't. That was arguably the heaviest weighing individual call in NBA history. Hence the term "superstar call" was born.



What about the Finals vs the Celtics, you conveniently ignored the question and brought up a series I have already defended with similar facts, the only difference between you and me is that I dont point to these facts as a conspiracy.

An argument can be made that the Lakers got more than their fair share of calls in that 4th quarter. Hard to tell if it decided the outcome of the game though. Celtic fans have a right to complain though. We got screwed in game 2 of the finals in 2008, and they didn't seem to care much though. NBA officiating is a joke all around.



LMFAO so your not portray people with differing opinions as blind sheep? LOL dude your entire agenda and defense is full of inconsistencies, contradictions, horrible analogies, and you totally ignore questions raised. I dont know what insults your talking about but I see you use that word (ad hominem) against everyone who picks apart your argument. Is that your word of the month or something? The real difference between us is that the burden of proof doesnt rest on my shoulders, your the one claiming the conspiracy remember, its not my fault youve done a piss poor job of proving it.

I try not to personally insult other as much as I can. When I refer to someone as a blind sheep its usually a generalization and a retort to being called a conspiracy nut job. No two wrongs don't make a right but sometimes I do get frustrated with certain peoples ignorance. I use ad hominem because I feel that people are not attacking the points I make, rather they deflect and attack me personally. Hence the term ad-hominem. When I refer to their arguments as ad-hominem, they are not usually picking my arguments apart, rather they are not addressing the points I am making.

Answer me this, can you prove that David Stern is an honest guy and is not instructing the refs to make certain calls? Why is it when certain officials like Joey Crawford who has an on going feud with Tim Duncan and has made bad calls against the Spurs, ie. WCF in 2008 that was admittedly the wrong call, is allowed to officiate important playoff games that they are in. Wouldn't it be more fair to not have him officiate a Spurs game after all that bad blood and potential bias? IMO you have done a piss poor job of defending your argument because nowhere in your defense have you convinced me that I could be possibly wrong. Do you really believe that David Stern is a fair guy? Can you prove it. I bring up examples such as game 6 of the WCF and game 2 of the ECF and you have yet to make a good point to the contrary.


There's a misconception out there explaining the glaring free throw disparity from Game 2: the Celtics are a jump-shooting team and don't attack the rim. Although this is generally true, this wasn't the case Wednesday night. According to HoopData.com's detailed box score, the Celtics were equally aggressive at the rim with 25 shots to Miami's 26. Conversely, Miami shot ten more three pointers with the Celtics scoring most of their points from the long two.

The difference in free throws didn't come from shooting fouls either; Miami generated 14 shooting fouls on Boston, with the Heat getting whistled 12 times against the Celtics. The glaring difference really was the amount of team fouls: 33-18. Three Celtics fouled out whereas little-used Joel Anthony had the most for the Heat with only 4. Through four quarters and overtime, Boston spent 16:54 in the penalty vs. 12:06 for Miami. Those five minutes may seem inconsequential in a 53-minute game but considering it produced a +18 in FTA in Miami's favor, it can not be overlooked with everything else being fairly equal.

http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/6/1/3055575/dispelling-the-myth-of-the-celtics-free-throw-disparity

What about this video detailing the bs calls that robbed the Spurs of game 6.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjxFgXse5oo&feature=youtube_gdata

Seems like some pretty legit stuff to gripe about. You have to admit that even if you don't think its rigged, the refs did do a horrible job.


LOL, everything that has been said to you was a result of your own doing. And what insults are you talking about? I havent insulted you at all in my book, you on the other hand have generalized many of us.

Telling me I have done a "piss poor job" or that I am doing a "horrible job" can be taken as an insult. Maybe not a direct personal insult, but an insult none the less. Its possible to make your rebuttal without the use of such slanderous words. Not that I am offended or crying over it...just saying.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 12:20 AM
You have failed to reply to my last post. Why is this. Is it because you have nothing to say because you are in fact grasping at straws.

I don't have proof but I do have logic. The cool thing about the American justice system is that the burden of proof lies on the accuser/prosecuter.

You are the prosecuter in this debate and you have no proof. Therefore by American logic and human logic you are wrong. Go away troll.

You do realize that I'm the one who started this thread. If anyone is trolling, its you. :rolleyes:

creamed corn
06-11-2012, 12:22 AM
amos1er, ill give you this. you stand by your belief and dont flip flop no matter how ridiculous the claim is.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 12:24 AM
You do realize that I'm the one who started this thread. If anyone is trolling, its you. :rolleyes:

You still have failed to explain why Stern would continue to cheat if he was under some sort of investigation. He would know of the investigation because he would have to be subpoenaed for his finacial records along with the NBA's. If Donaghy was a way to get to the "big fish" as you stated then the investigaiton of Stern has to have been going on for 6+ years. Are you saying Stern is dumb enough to continue to rig the league while under investigation?

amos1er
06-11-2012, 12:33 AM
There are too many to list but from what I remember from a review of his book, Donaghy talks about conversations hes had with Phil (Phil denies it), keep in mind that Tim describes Phil as someone who would be willing to openly discuss this matter and claims "Phil must have forgotten" as his explanation for why hes not, a locker room run in with Charles Barkley where he threw water on his head (Charles denies it), not only that but Donaghy was adamant that he would take a polygraph to admit to the occurrence, he backed out at the last second and thats when his publisher got weary of trusting him. That trust was further severed when he claimed to write the book while in prison and word got around that he had as many as 3 ghost writers taking the reigns.
He talks about a friendship between Joe Forte and Mike Fratello, which inspired him to pick Fratello's team to beat the spread when Forte reffed. In that period, Fratello's teams beat the spread less than half the time.

Some more I found on google.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11341/did-dick-bavetta-prop-up-weaker-teams


From Abbott
Also noteworthy is the decided lack of people who have his back. Does anyone with direct knowledge of refereeing who support his version of events? The truth has a way of attracting supporters among the knowledgeable. Where are the retired referees? They are silent -- even though one of them is Donaghy's uncle, Billy Oakes. Is there anyone on the planet who has both first-hand knowledge of what goes on among referees, and an inclination to vouch for Donaghy's version of events?



Your not getting it, spreading gossip doesnt land you a deal, admitting the truth does but in this case the truth he admits to is gambling, he never admitted to "fixing" games by their legal definition, because if he did it would land him BACK IN JAIL. Thats why Stern would face serious jail time if he ever got caught fixing the game/draft. So would his employees involved and the 3rd party firm.



There is no reason to lend credence to your opinion, all of your examples, comparisons, and references have been fallible. The facts dont support your hero. And the burden of proof doesnt rest on my shoulders, it lands squarely on the accuser. I thought you said you knew the law? LMFAO

Who says Donaghy is my hero? lol Yet another uncalled for dig.

Did it occur to you that people like Barkley and Phil might be the ones who are being untruthful? Both have a financial incentive to want the NBA to keep its credibility.

Donaghy didn't have to accuse Stern of rigging the games...Than why did he? Could be some truth to what he is saying. If only 10% of it is true thats pretty bad IMO.

Obviously I have no clear proof, only circumstantial evidence. There is a saying that goes "where there is smoke, there is fire". If there are this many people saying that something is wrong with the NBA and its officiating, than the issue needs to be addressed. There is something fishy going on and Stern should address it to clear his name so that people like me and many others who share my opinion can shut up finally. Again, why didn't Stern let a 3rd party firm investigate? That seems fishy to me. Why not let a 3rd party control the officiating all together? Wouldn't that put all doubts to rest? You have to admit that out of all sports, none is scrutinized more than the NBA's officiating...maybe boxing, but that is known to be crooked. The way I see it, the NBA is heading down the road of their officials being as credible as boxing judges.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 12:34 AM
Yes I believe 1 person over all the people that have said he is lying.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 12:37 AM
You still have failed to explain why Stern would continue to cheat if he was under some sort of investigation. He would know of the investigation because he would have to be subpoenaed for his finacial records along with the NBA's. If Donaghy was a way to get to the "big fish" as you stated then the investigaiton of Stern has to have been going on for 6+ years. Are you saying Stern is dumb enough to continue to rig the league while under investigation?

Key members of the Mafia were under investigation constantly. Did that stop them...:cool:

amos1er
06-11-2012, 12:38 AM
Yes I believe 1 person over all the people that have said he is lying.

Cool.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 12:40 AM
Key members of the Mafia were under investigation constantly. Did that stop them...:cool:

It forced them to change practices and rank structures. Nothing like that has happened in the NBA. They are apparently still cheating and still making money doing it.....according to you.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 12:40 AM
Cool.

Still fail to give any facts. Where are the facts. Give us the facts.


oh wait....there are none.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 12:44 AM
amos1er, ill give you this. you stand by your belief and dont flip flop no matter how ridiculous the claim is.

How is it ridiculous? Maybe from my point of view people who believe that there is nothing wrong with NBA officiating are the ridiculous ones. Its all a matter of opinion. What makes my opinion that much more ridiculous than your opinion? Lots of people feel that there is something not right about NBA officiating. I'm not the only one here.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 12:46 AM
How is it ridiculous? Maybe from my point of view people who believe that there is nothing wrong with NBA officiating are the ridiculous ones. Its all a matter of opinion. What makes my opinion that much more ridiculous than your opinion? Lots of people feel that there is something not right about NBA officiating. I'm not the only one here.

The fact that you have no proof it is rigged. That is what makes it ridiculous. We have proof it isn't. And that is the fact that Stern is in control and the news is not plastered with headlines talking about how Stern has screwed gamblers out of billions of dollars

amos1er
06-11-2012, 12:47 AM
It forced them to change practices and rank structures. Nothing like that has happened in the NBA. They are apparently still cheating and still making money doing it.....according to you.

Again, why would Stern adjust anything? He has nothing to be afraid of other than public scrutiny. He can't be charged for a crime for telling officials to call games a certain way. Its entertainment and its nearly impossible to prove unless someone rats like Donaghy did. In which case, Stern will go into denial mode like he did with Donaghy.

TimbaWolvez
06-11-2012, 12:48 AM
Lebron will get more calls by a wide margin.

tredigs
06-11-2012, 12:49 AM
The PSD NBA forum everyone.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 12:50 AM
The fact that you have no proof it is rigged. That is what makes it ridiculous. We have proof it isn't. And that is the fact that Stern is in control and the news is not plastered with headlines talking about how Stern has screwed gamblers out of billions of dollars

Really, because that doesn't sound like proof to me. Sounds more like the same circumstantial evidence that I provide.

Actually, the news is plastered with headlines about the draft being rigged, game 2 of the ECF being rigged, and game 6 of the WCF being rigged. It's not like I'm not making this stuff up.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 12:53 AM
Again, why would Stern adjust anything? He has nothing to be afraid of other than public scrutiny. He can't be charged for a crime for telling officials to call games a certain way. Its entertainment and its nearly impossible to prove unless someone rats like Donaghy did. In which case, Stern will go into denial mode like he did with Donaghy.

Yes he can. Conspiracy and Fraud. Why do you fail to accept this. Teams who win NBA championships make more money than teams who don't. By Stern rigging the league he would be defrauding teams of that opprotunity. Also it is funny how no owners of teams are complaining about rigging of games. Is that because they are part of it too? Seems like that makes sense, I know a bunch of people who own companies that like to not maximize profits.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 12:54 AM
Really, because that doesn't sound like proof to me. Sounds more like the same circumstantial evidence that I provide.

Actually, the news is plastered with headlines about the draft being rigged, game 2 of the ECF being rigged, and game 6 of the WCF being rigged. I'm not making this stuff up.

Where is it plastered in the media. By a couple bloggers? Yeah very reliable and not biased in any way. I don't see it being talked about by any news corp in the US.

TimbaWolvez
06-11-2012, 12:59 AM
Life is rigged. You gotta live with it..

amos1er
06-11-2012, 01:04 AM
Yes he can. Conspiracy and Fraud. Why do you fail to accept this. Teams who win NBA championships make more money than teams who don't. By Stern rigging the league he would be defrauding teams of that opprotunity. Also it is funny how no owners of teams are complaining about rigging of games. Is that because they are part of it too? Seems like that makes sense, I know a bunch of people who own companies that like to not maximize profits.

Again, nearly impossible to prove. The only way he can be caught is if someone rats. The people involved are making too much money to want to rat and even if someone does, Stern will just deny it and it will be their word against his thus making it impossible to prosecute. Even if the tape recorded him, it can't be used in court as evidence unless he knew he was being taped. Many dictators throughout history have abused their power because they feel that they are untouchable and can't be caught. When a criminal commits a crime last thing he thinks about is getting caught.

Why do you think that so many are saying that the draft is rigged. Cleveland loses Lebron and they get the first pick. New Orleans Loses Paul and they get the first pick. Stern has a difficult job, he has to make sure that everyone gets paid, that way everybody shuts up.

Chronz
06-11-2012, 01:04 AM
Who says Donaghy is my hero? lol Yet another uncalled for dig.
Hes a reference for you.


Did it occur to you that people like Barkley and Phil might be the ones who are being untruthful? Both have a financial incentive to want the NBA to keep its credibility.

Still doesnt change the fact that Tim backed out of a polygraph regarding the Charles claim, that his characterization of Phil being truthful and frank on such issues was wrong, that his own Uncle (a retired ref) didnt come to his defense during the trial, or that his own "evidence" was thoroughly shut down.


Donaghy didn't have to accuse Stern of rigging the games...Than why did he? Could be some truth to what he is saying. If only 10% of it is true thats pretty bad IMO.

Yes he did, thats how hes getting around the fact that he acted on his own accord, by blaming others. Again, hes never admitted to rigging games, because it would LAND HIM BACK IN JAIL. And the FBI wouldnt cut him a deal if all he did was say Stern was behind it, he tried to provide evidence (which turned out fallible), still, Stern would have to be idiotic to risk his life for a slight influence of effecting the outcome of a game if the FBI was indeed benefitting from some sort of deal (which makes no sense, but it just gos to show how far you have to reach).


Obviously I have no clear proof, only circumstantial evidence. There is a saying that goes "where there is smoke, there is fire". If there are this many people saying that something is wrong with the NBA and its officiating, than the issue needs to be addressed. There is something fishy going on and Stern should address it to clear his name so that people like me and many others who share my opinion can shut up finally. Again, why didn't Stern let a 3rd party firm investigate? That seems fishy to me. Why not let a 3rd party control the officiating all together? Wouldn't that put all doubts to rest? You have to admit that out of all sports, none is scrutinized more than the NBA's officiating...maybe boxing, but that is known to be crooked. The way I see it, the NBA is heading down the road of their officials being as credible as boxing judges.
I see no smoke. And again, it wouldnt stop anything, having a 3rd party involved in the draft hasnt stopped people from claiming hes just buying them off. You cant silence ignorance, it will perpetuate no matter what. The way I see it, the game has always been this way, I would like to see instant replay and challenges being implemented but that wouldnt solve everything.

Of all the sports basketball is the hardest to officiate, its a constant flow of movement with little stoppage.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 01:07 AM
Again, nearly impossible to prove. The only way he can be caught is if someone rats. The people involved are making too much money to want to rat and even if someone does, Stern will just deny it and it will be their word against his thus making it impossible to prosecute. Even if the tape recorded him, it can't be used in court as evidence unless he knew he was being taped. Many dictators throughout history have abused their power because they feel that they are untouchable and can't be caught. When a criminal commits a crime last thing he thinks about is getting caught.

Why do you think that so many are saying that the draft is rigged. Cleveland loses Lebron and they get the first pick. New Orleans Loses Paul and they get the first pick. Stern has a difficult job, he has to make sure that everyone gets paid, that way everybody shuts up.

Do you know how much money a person could make selling the rights to the story of how David Stern rigged the NBA? Ask any accountant, the books don't lie. There are always signs of manipulation. The FBI would have the books and would have found the discrepencies if there were any. They are a billion dollar corporation, they are watched and scrutinized by the IRS and Federal Government.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 01:08 AM
Where is it plastered in the media. By a couple bloggers? Yeah very reliable and not biased in any way. I don't see it being talked about by any news corp in the US.

CBS reliable enough for you. http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19216160/was-the-nba-draft-lottery-rigged-well-no-but-people-are-thinking-it-anyway

Washington Post??? http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/post/was-the-nba-draft-lottery-rigged-for-the-new-orleans-hornets-to-win/2012/05/31/gJQAmL5V4U_blog.html

Yahoo Sports. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--nba-s-problematic-ownership-of-hornets-opens-door-to-rigged-talk-over-draft-lottery-20120531.html

Bleacherreport. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1202943-2012-nba-draft-is-it-officially-a-rigged-lottery

I started a thread about Skip Bayless comments already. He is an ESPN analyst.

Need I go on...

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 01:10 AM
CBS reliable enough for you. http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19216160/was-the-nba-draft-lottery-rigged-well-no-but-people-are-thinking-it-anyway

Washington Post??? http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/post/was-the-nba-draft-lottery-rigged-for-the-new-orleans-hornets-to-win/2012/05/31/gJQAmL5V4U_blog.html

Yahoo Sports. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--nba-s-problematic-ownership-of-hornets-opens-door-to-rigged-talk-over-draft-lottery-20120531.html

Bleacherreport. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1202943-2012-nba-draft-is-it-officially-a-rigged-lottery

I started a thread about Skip Bayless comments already. He is an ESPN analyst.

CBS- Blog
Washington Post- Blog
Yahoo sports- Blog
Bleacher Report- hahahahahahahahahaha
Skip Bayless- Personal opinion not founded by facts.

You have stated 5 sources that are all opinion based. None of them fact based. Where are the concrete facts that any of this is rigged.

I can write a blog on bleacher report saying that Kobe Bryant is a female. I don't need any proof to post it.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 01:11 AM
Do you know how much money a person could make selling the rights to the story of how David Stern rigged the NBA? Ask any accountant, the books don't lie. There are always signs of manipulation. The FBI would have the books and would have found the discrepencies if there were any. They are a billion dollar corporation, they are watched and scrutinized by the IRS and Federal Government.

Ya, and I'm sure Stern is really stupid enough to let his accountant in on how he rigs games. Anyone that is even close enough to come up with anything other than a testimony is most likely on the payroll for more money than they could ever get on some measly book deal.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 01:12 AM
CBS- Blog
Washington Post- Blog
Yahoo sports- Blog
Bleacher Report- hahahahahahahahahaha
Skip Bayless- Personal opinion not founded by facts.

You have stated 5 sources that are all opinion based. None of them fact based. Where are the concrete facts that any of this is rigged.

I can write a blog on bleacher report saying that Kobe Bryant is a female. I don't need any proof to post it.

These were blogs about actual news articles. :facepalm:

amos1er
06-11-2012, 01:14 AM
Life is rigged. You gotta live with it..

Truer words were never spoken.

Wade>You
06-11-2012, 01:15 AM
amos1er: are you aware of which team has the most championships in the David Stern era?

Teeboy1487
06-11-2012, 01:21 AM
Hopefully the officiating will not be a factor, but Lebron will get more calls because he drives to the rim more and gets fouled more.

Chronz
06-11-2012, 01:21 AM
It was a call that could have made or broken the outcome of that game. Had a push off been called, a game 7 would have happened for sure. It was the first time a non-call determined the outcome of a game of sure importance. Jordan's sixth ring and legacy was on the line on one call and it could have easily been called a push off, yet it wasn't. That was arguably the heaviest weighing individual call in NBA history. Hence the term "superstar call" was born.
LMFAO, against why was MJ the smoking gun and not Showtime? There was a greater outcry for that travel and subsequent questionable call against Lambeer that robbed the Pistons of the title. And unlike the call against the Bulls, it actually kept the Lakers alive whereas MJ would have just gone on to a game 7. Historically bad calls have existed long before then. Superstar call wasnt born on that night. Nice try, you can stop dodging the question.



Answer me this, can you prove that David Stern is an honest guy and is not instructing the refs to make certain calls? Why is it when certain officials like Joey Crawford who has an on going feud with Tim Duncan and has made bad calls against the Spurs, ie. WCF in 2008 that was admittedly the wrong call, is allowed to officiate important playoff games that they are in. Wouldn't it be more fair to not have him officiate a Spurs game after all that bad blood and potential bias?
Refs who grade poorly dont get to call many playoff games, its why Donaghy wasnt given many games compared to his peers. But show me these games he called, lot of refs dont like the way some players treat them, who exactly would you want in his place?


IMO you have done a piss poor job of defending your argument because nowhere in your defense have you convinced me that I could be possibly wrong.
I forget what philosopher said this but it holds true here, "I can convince a genius that he is wrong, but I will never convince an idiot of the same". Of course you wont be convinced, your the type of person to reference Tim Donaghy.



Do you really believe that David Stern is a fair guy? Can you prove it. I bring up examples such as game 6 of the WCF and game 2 of the ECF and you have yet to make a good point to the contrary.

Your examples fall well short of the claim your trying to make. CP3 didnt get a call when he was hit in the head on a game winning attempt, the only difference is he made the call. Russell Westbrook was hit in the head against the Spurs in G6 and didnt get the call, hell Blake gets punched in the dome with no call being assigned, refs dont catch everything and there will be games that are worse than others. This isnt a sign of a conspiracy.



http://www.celticsblog.com/2012/6/1/3055575/dispelling-the-myth-of-the-celtics-free-throw-disparity

What about this video detailing the bs calls that robbed the Spurs of game 6.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjxFgXse5oo&feature=youtube_gdata

Seems like some pretty legit stuff to gripe about. You have to admit that even if you don't think its rigged, the refs did do a horrible job.
Ive seen you argue 2 completely different plays being similar in nature (the Udonis off the ball screen vs Manus moving screen after a dishoff), quite frankly I dont care about your opinion on these matters.



Telling me I have done a "piss poor job" or that I am doing a "horrible job" can be taken as an insult. Maybe not a direct personal insult, but an insult none the less. Its possible to make your rebuttal without the use of such slanderous words. Not that I am offended or crying over it...just saying.
Not when someone is using slanderous/sweeping generalizations of a fan base.

D-Will4Prez
06-11-2012, 01:22 AM
LeBron will get the calls, but the Thunder will win the series anyway. Book it.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 01:23 AM
These were blogs about actual news articles. :facepalm:

Where is the CNN article, the Fox News article, BBC, MSNBC, why isn't this still the cover story of ESPN. You would think a major sport riggings scheme would be covered more. Oh that is right it is all speculative by a small percentage and everyone else has enough common sense to understand there is more to lose than gain by doing this. Stern will make 15-20 million a year regardless of who wins an NBA championship.

Chronz
06-11-2012, 01:29 AM
Again, why would Stern adjust anything? He has nothing to be afraid of other than public scrutiny. He can't be charged for a crime for telling officials to call games a certain way. Its entertainment and its nearly impossible to prove unless someone rats like Donaghy did. In which case, Stern will go into denial mode like he did with Donaghy.
LOL you keep saying this but it simply isnt true, he would face Jail time if anyone brought these conspiracies to life. When Donaghy got caught he TRIED to provide evidence, it was refuted. Its not impossible to prove, if it were true there is always a paper trail or a leak or someone with a wiretap. Too many people involved for it not to leak, especially with regards to the draft.

The reason you have no facts to present is because they dont exist. The same reason we have FACTS to disprove the BS that comes out of Tims mouth. The same reason his own family members that have NOTHING to gain from staying silent didnt come to his aid. This is called deductive evidence, it stems from legitimate logic.

The only logic you have is, I dont agree with this foul therefore RIGGED.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 01:29 AM
amos1er: are you aware of which team has the most championships in the David Stern era?

Are you implying that Stern rigged it for the Lakers? If so, why wouldn't he rig it for other teams as well.

Could it be that the Lakers just had more money, better players and better management than the other teams. i.e Jerry West, Magic Johnson, Kareem, Kobe, Shaq, Phil Jackson etc....

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 01:34 AM
Are you implying that Stern rigged it for the Lakers? If so, why wouldn't he rig it for other teams as well.

Could it be that the Lakers just had more money, better players and better management than the other teams. i.e Jerry West, Magic Johnson, Kareem, Kobe, Shaq, Phil Jackson etc....

Or maybe just maybe it isn't rigged and good teams win championships.

It is astounding that the two teams that were healthy and with the most talent are going to the Finals. I can't believe it.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 01:35 AM
LOL you keep saying this but it simply isnt true, he would face Jail time if anyone brought these conspiracies to life. When Donaghy got caught he TRIED to provide evidence, it was refuted. Its not impossible to prove, if it were true there is always a paper trail or a leak or someone with a wiretap. Too many people involved for it not to leak, especially with regards to the draft.

The reason you have no facts to present is because they dont exist. The same reason we have FACTS to disprove the BS that comes out of Tims mouth. The same reason his own family members that have NOTHING to gain from staying silent didnt come to his aid. This is called deductive evidence, it stems from legitimate logic.

The only logic you have is, I dont agree with this foul therefore RIGGED.

Wire taps cannot be used as evidence in a trial. Its nearly impossible to prove that he was directly rigging the games. Look at what happened when the caught NBC rigging the show 21. The guys at the top all got away with it because no one credible ratted on them and even if they did it would be hearsay. It depends on what charges they brought against Stern. If it could be proven that he directly told the officials to rig the game, which would be impossible unless a number of credible witnesses stepped forward, than they could prosecute. Even then Stern's lawyers would likely tear them to pieces. Its extremely difficult to prove intent.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 01:39 AM
Where is the CNN article, the Fox News article, BBC, MSNBC, why isn't this still the cover story of ESPN. You would think a major sport riggings scheme would be covered more. Oh that is right it is all speculative by a small percentage and everyone else has enough common sense to understand there is more to lose than gain by doing this. Stern will make 15-20 million a year regardless of who wins an NBA championship.

You originally asked for major news articles....I gave you some. Now that I did you add to your request by naming specific organizations that would likely not report that type of news story anyways. Give me a break. :rolleyes:

Chronz
06-11-2012, 01:41 AM
Wire taps cannot be used as evidence in a trial.
They CAN be used to profit, bring to light an injustice by breaking a story.

Besides your wrong, if there is a legitimate suspicion/evidence that a crime is occurring you can wiretap anyone, especially nowadays.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 01:42 AM
You originally asked for major news articles....I gave you some. Now that I did you add to your request by naming specific organizations that would likely not report that type of news story anyways. Give me a break. :rolleyes:

You didn't give me major news articles. You gave me blogs. I can go write a blog right now. But guess what, it is all speculation lacking facts. There is a reason no major (CNN, Fox, NBC, ESPN) news corp is running these stories. They lack merit and fact.

Go away troll.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 01:42 AM
They CAN be used to profit, bring to light an injustice by breaking a story.

Besides your wrong, if there is a legitimate suspicion/evidence that a crime is occurring you can wiretap anyone, especially nowadays.

Thank you patriot act.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 01:44 AM
Or maybe just maybe it isn't rigged and good teams win championships.

It is astounding that the two teams that were healthy and with the most talent are going to the Finals. I can't believe it.

It all depends on how fairly the games were called. If there is something fishy, then there will be an uproar from the public.

In game 2 of the ECF the officiating heavily favored the Heat.

In game 6 of the WCF the officiation heavily favored the Thunder.

A combination of the Heat and Thunder in the finals would draw the most viewers. People have to raise and eyebrow given those facts.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 01:45 AM
They CAN be used to profit, bring to light an injustice by breaking a story.

Besides your wrong, if there is a legitimate suspicion/evidence that a crime is occurring you can wiretap anyone, especially nowadays.

You can wiretap, but you are not allowed to use the wiretap in a court of law as evidence for a conviction. You can only use the wiretap to gain further evidence that might lead to a conviction.

The wiretap itself cannot be used directly.

Wade>You
06-11-2012, 01:46 AM
Are you implying that Stern rigged it for the Lakers? If so, why wouldn't he rig it for other teams as well.

Could it be that the Lakers just had more money, better players and better management than the other teams. i.e Jerry West, Magic Johnson, Kareem, Kobe, Shaq, Phil Jackson etc.... I was just wondering why you are trying to bring down Stern when the Lakers have the most titles under his tenure as Commissioner.

And when Stern was asked what his dream Finals would be from a business stand point, he responded "Lakers vs Lakers"

Your team has been the biggest beneficiary under David Stern. Fact.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 01:50 AM
You didn't give me major news articles. You gave me blogs. I can go write a blog right now. But guess what, it is all speculation lacking facts. There is a reason no major (CNN, Fox, NBC, ESPN) news corp is running these stories. They lack merit and fact.

Go away troll.

Again...those were blogs based of the stories that those particular media outlets had ran. CNN, Fox, NBC will usually not run that type of story unless there is absolute proof. Skip Bayless works for ESPN and he mentioned the crooked officiating in game 6 of the WCF. CBS and the Washington Post ran the story and they are very credible.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 01:54 AM
I was just wondering why you are trying to bring down Stern when the Lakers have the most titles under his tenure as Commissioner.

And when Stern was asked what his dream Finals would be from a business stand point, he responded "Lakers vs Lakers"

Your team has been the biggest beneficiary under David Stern. Fact.

Lakers went to the finals plenty of times before Stern. Fact.

Lakers don't need much help from Stern seeing as how they always seem to attract the top talent, coaching and management (Jim Buss excluded). Its the other small market teams that threw hissy fits especially during the lockout and the during the making of the new CBA. They wanted to use the new CBA to handicap the Lakers as much as possible because they felt like they were at some sort of disadvantage.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 01:55 AM
You can wiretap, but you are not allowed to use the wiretap in a court of law as evidence for a conviction. You can only use the wiretap to gain further evidence that might lead to a conviction.

The wiretap itself cannot be used directly.

Wiretaps can be used as evidence, just so you know. They have to be obtained legally though.


In the United States, under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, federal intelligence agencies can get approval for wiretaps from the United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, a court with secret proceedings, or in certain circumstances from the Attorney General without a court order.[

Wade>You
06-11-2012, 01:56 AM
Lakers went to the finals plenty of times before Stern. Fact.

Lakers don't need much help from Stern seeing as how they always seem to attract the top talent, coaching and management (Jim Buss excluded). Its the other small market teams that threw hissy fits especially during the lockout and the during the making of the new CBA. They wanted to use the new CBA to handicap the Lakers as much as possible because they have such a great organization.And they also lost plenty of times before Stern in the Finals. Fact.

Hey amos1er, would you trade both OKC and Miami's combined titles under Stern for all of the Lakers titles under Stern?

If not, then you should really reconsider what you are saying here. No other team has benefited more under Stern than the Lakers

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 01:56 AM
Again...those were blogs based of the stories that those particular media outlets had ran. CNN, Fox, NBC will usually not run that type of story unless there is absolute proof. Skip Bayless works for ESPN and he mentioned the crooked officiating in game 6 of the WCF. CBS and the Washington Post ran the story and they are very credible.

No blog writers wrote the stories. They are not credible because like you said they don't have proof (which is important here in American, maybe not in Nazi Germany though).

I don't think you understand. I think you are confused. I think you need to hit the books and learn about law.

cutiepie80
06-11-2012, 01:57 AM
Lebron for sure because he's the bigger name, shouldn't even be questioned.

What should be questioned is the mvp award.

SHould be the best finals in a long long time. Go Thunder and shatter Heat fans dreams.

Cal827
06-11-2012, 01:58 AM
Lebron James is already winning

I've called him 3495 times since Miami got to the finals but he won't pick up! :cry:

Also, stop fighting. I think we can all agree that David Stern needs to taken down faster than porn in the NBA forum.....oh wait.

Chronz
06-11-2012, 01:59 AM
And they also lost plenty of times before Stern in the Finals. Fact.

Hey amos1er, would you trade both OKC and Miami's combined titles under Stern for all of the Lakers titles under Stern?

If not, then you should really reconsider what you are saying here. No other team has benefited more under Stern than the Lakers

You havent been paying attention to our argument, he thinks the term "star calls" was born in 98. He actually thinks horrible calls that decided games/chips didnt happen in the Showtime era.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 02:01 AM
Lebron James is already winning

I've called him 3495 times since Miami got to the finals but he won't pick up! :cry:

Also, stop fighting. I think we can all agree that David Stern needs to taken down faster than porn in the NBA forum.....oh wait.

I like Stern. I think he has helped the NBA grow since the Jordan era. He had a tough challenge and he has made it work. In fact growing the NBA globally was a large part because of him.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 02:02 AM
No blog writers wrote the stories. They are not credible because like you said they don't have proof (which is important here in American, maybe not in Nazi Germany though).

I don't think you understand. I think you are confused. I think you need to hit the books and learn about law.

Nice red herring. What is it exactly that I don't know about law. I have rebutted all your points and answered all your questions. Please site me on exactly what I was lacking in my knowledge on law concerning this topic.

I think you need to look again. Those stories were written by people that are employed by those media outlets. Even if its and online article (what do you expect me to site we are on-line after all) they still are on the payroll for those media outlets. And yes, they don't have proof and neither do you.

Chronz
06-11-2012, 02:06 AM
Lebron James is already winning

I've called him 3495 times since Miami got to the finals but he won't pick up! :cry:

Also, stop fighting. I think we can all agree that David Stern needs to taken down faster than porn in the NBA forum.....oh wait.

Its not Sterns fault the game is so hard to officiate, he was a great overseer of the game. He came at the right time (With Magic and Bird entering the game) but he guided it into the modern era. When defenses were getting to stingy (and ratings were dropping) he tweaked the rules to keep efficiency levels constant.

His only flaw has been his failure to implement instant replay and issue challenges for coaches. I hope Silver can tackle this issue, I think it would help ease the *****ing and moaning from fans who think refs can decide series.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 02:06 AM
You havent been paying attention to our argument, he thinks the term "star calls" was born in 98. He actually thinks horrible calls that decided games/chips didnt happen in the Showtime era.

I never said that...I said that there were horrible calls before, just not as bad as now. Many people refer to the Jordan/Russell push off incident as the smoking gun that birthed what we now define as superstar calls and that was the turning point that ushered in this new era of superstar calls where the refs are able to get away with them more blatantly than ever.

cutiepie80
06-11-2012, 02:06 AM
Its not Sterns fault the game is so hard to officiate, he was a great overseer of the game. He came at the right time (With Magic and Bird entering the game) but he guided it into the modern era. When defenses were getting to stingy (and ratings were dropping) he tweaked the rules to keep efficiency levels constant.

His only flaw has been his failure to implement instant replay and issue challenges for coaches. I hope Silver can tackle this issue, I think it would help ease the *****ing and moaning from fans who think refs can decide series.

:facepalm:

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 02:07 AM
Nice red herring. What is it exactly that I don't know about law. I have rebutted all your points and answered all your questions. Please site me on exactly what I was lacking in my knowledge on law concerning this topic.

I think you need to look again. Those stories were written by people that are employed by those media outlets. Even if its and online article (what do you expect me to site we are on-line after all) they still are on the payroll for those media outlets. And yes, they don't have proof and neither do you.

That is what you don't understand about the law. You need proof. Otherwise you are wrong.

also your knowledge about wiretaps is god awful. They are allowed in court. As long as they are legally obtained. Thus the patriot act.

AS for you news articles. They are not based on fact. Anyone can write a blog. They are opinion pieces. I can write one right now stating that you are half zebra and CBS can publish it as a blog and guess what. It doesn't mean you are half zebra

KB-Pau-DH2012
06-11-2012, 02:08 AM
Neither, James Harden and his beard will flop their way to the free throw line.

Wade>You
06-11-2012, 02:09 AM
You havent been paying attention to our argument, he thinks the term "star calls" was born in 98. He actually thinks horrible calls that decided games/chips didnt happen in the Showtime era.Ahhh.

Speaking in general, a fan of a team with 17 titles, 2nd most in the NBA, is preaching to a choire of fans of teams that don't even have more than 1 or 2, and a lot of them with zero.

Either people are dumb enough to believe this guy has their best interest at hand or they will recognize that this guy is out of his mind and should be thankful instead.

KB-Pau-DH2012
06-11-2012, 02:11 AM
Ahhh.

Speaking in general, a fan of a team with 17 titles, 2nd most in the NBA, is preaching to a choire of fans of teams that don't even have more than 1 or 2, and a lot of them with zero.

Either people are dumb enough to believe this guy has their best interest at hand or they will recognize that this guy is out of his mind and should be thankful instead.

rigged to the max for sure.

cutiepie80
06-11-2012, 02:12 AM
Ahhh.

Speaking in general, a fan of a team with 17 titles, 2nd most in the NBA, is preaching to a choire of fans of teams that don't even have more than 1 or 2, and a lot of them with zero.

Either people are dumb enough to believe this guy has their best interest at hand or they will recognize that this guy is out of his mind and should be thankful instead.

And what was your stance on David 3 years back when Kobe was getting those calls? When you were in the cellar? Screaming at the tv saying "this is so rigged".

MIRIGHT? :clap:

amos1er
06-11-2012, 02:12 AM
Its not Sterns fault the game is so hard to officiate, he was a great overseer of the game. He came at the right time (With Magic and Bird entering the game) but he guided it into the modern era. When defenses were getting to stingy (and ratings were dropping) he tweaked the rules to keep efficiency levels constant.

His only flaw has been his failure to implement instant replay and issue challenges for coaches. I hope Silver can tackle this issue, I think it would help ease the *****ing and moaning from fans who think refs can decide series.

So you think that a ref can't decide the outcome of a game. You would have to admit that a ref could have easily called a push off on Jordan during the 98 finals. Wouldn't that have forced a game 7. So in essence, didn't that decide the outcome of the game?

What about in the 2006 NBA finals in game 5 where Wade got a last second call with questionable contact that put the Heat up by one. Didn't Bennett Salvador the farthest official from the play make that call too. Didn't that call in essence decide the game as well. Don't the refs usually swallow their whistles in those moments and let the players decide the outcome. Yet they didn't do it there. There was very little contact and a foul didn't need to be called. Another incident where the refing did matter.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 02:13 AM
And they also lost plenty of times before Stern in the Finals. Fact.

Hey amos1er, would you trade both OKC and Miami's combined titles under Stern for all of the Lakers titles under Stern?

If not, then you should really reconsider what you are saying here. No other team has benefited more under Stern than the Lakers

Two wrongs don't make a right.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 02:14 AM
Officiating is bad because it is a face paced game. Not because of rigging. Players like Wade and Kobe get the calls because they are the ones with the ball in their hand 75% of the time. They attack the basket and get hacked.

There is nothing fishy going on. Every game has bad calls. Toronto v Charolette had bad calls this year. It was most likely rigging, because stern cared that much

Chronz
06-11-2012, 02:16 AM
I never said that...I said that there were horrible calls before, just not as bad as now.
And I asked you what makes you think MJ and not Showtime as the worse call or the one that birthed the superstar call?


Many people refer to the Jordan/Russell push off incident as the smoking gun that birthed what we now define as superstar calls and that was the turning point that ushered in this new era of superstar calls where the refs are able to get away with them more blatantly than ever.
Your literally the first person Ive heard say that, again why not point to the showtime era?

Chronz
06-11-2012, 02:16 AM
:facepalm:

Oh darn, the dreaded face palm.

cutiepie80
06-11-2012, 02:17 AM
Heat fans saying Stern is fair and all of that now.

Wow.

Like I said......when they were sitting on their couches watching Kobe get call after call screaming that it's unfair. Now it's fair right when you are inn contention and have big name players?

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 02:20 AM
Heat fans saying Stern is fair and all of that now.

Wow.

Like I said......when they were sitting on their couches watching Kobe get call after call screaming that it's unfair. Now it's fair right when you are inn contention and have big name players?

Besides sarcastically mocking people. Show me where I called out the refs or NBA for being rigged. That is right never. Are there questionable calls, yes, every game. But it isn't to give 1 team an advantage. Perception is everything and in a game this fast with players this fast sometimes you have to blow the whistle because it looks worse than it was. unless you want a pause after every play to look for fouls then you have to take the bad with the good.

Wade>You
06-11-2012, 02:25 AM
I have no opinion on this topic at all. I just wanted to get insight from amos1er and put on my tinfoil hat along with the rest of y'all.


Two wrongs don't make a right. Admit it man, for as much as you think the Heat and OKC have benefited from Stern, it's the Lakers that have the 17 titles. And you wouldn't have it any other way.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 02:26 AM
That is what you don't understand about the law. You need proof. Otherwise you are wrong.

also your knowledge about wiretaps is god awful. They are allowed in court. As long as they are legally obtained. Thus the patriot act.

AS for you news articles. They are not based on fact. Anyone can write a blog. They are opinion pieces. I can write one right now stating that you are half zebra and CBS can publish it as a blog and guess what. It doesn't mean you are half zebra

I've told you, and I frankly I am sick of repeating myself to you. Wire taps cannot directly be used as evidence to convict...they can only be used to gather further evidence. Prove me wrong then and post some case law instead of using weak argument techniques. Again, you need to actually look at those articles again. Adrian Wojnarowski is a NBA columnist for Yahoo! Sports and an NBA Insider for the NBC Sports Network. One of those articles was written by him. Matt Moore is a Senior NBA Blogger and is a paid employee of CBS. He wrote an article as well. How about David Kahn who is the Minnesota Timberwolves president...he thinks the draft is rigged too and here is an article from CBS stating it. http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/29391755

I've already told you, we are on line and I am of course going to only be able to site on line articles. Did you want it in print or something?

KB-Pau-DH2012
06-11-2012, 02:28 AM
Admit it man, for as much as you think the Heat and OKC have benefited from Stern, it's the Lakers that have the 17 titles. And you wouldn't have it any other way.

Hey thanks, you just gave us an extra title. :clap:


I don't know why others saying that you're an annoying ****. I don't think so, I think you're a swell guy. :up:

Wade>You
06-11-2012, 02:30 AM
Hey thanks, you just gave us an extra title. :clap:


I don't know why others saying that you're an annoying ****. I don't think so, I think you're a swell guy. :up:Wikipedia, but you're right. And do I sense some tension? LoL. :laugh2:

Don't worry, I won't be reporting you for all your bait comments the past 3 days.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 02:30 AM
I have no opinion on this topic at all. I just wanted to get insight from amos1er and put on my tinfoil hat along with the rest of y'all.

Admit it man, for as much as you think the Heat and OKC have benefited from Stern, it's the Lakers that have the 17 titles. And you wouldn't have it any other way.

The Lakers only have 8 titles under Stern. Most of them came before him. Get your facts straight.

Chronz
06-11-2012, 02:30 AM
So you think that a ref can't decide the outcome of a game. You would have to admit that a ref could have easily called a push off on Jordan during the 98 finals. Wouldn't that have forced a game 7. So in essence, didn't that decide the outcome of the game?
A ref will never decide a series. A single bad call doesnt decide a game, there was too much that went into the game before the final play for it to boil down to 1 call and the Jazz still had a possession left and an entire game to win if they had held on.
Also, I dont have to admit anything, to me it wasnt a blatant push off, Ive seen lots of players get away with much worse, (like Reggie's 2-handed shove on MJ to hit the game winner). Ive always said that the pushoff made very little contact and that even if MJ didnt nudge him, Russell's momentum was taking him out of the play. IIRC he himself admitted that it wasnt a big deal. Dude got smoked.


What about in the 2006 NBA finals in game 5 where Wade got a last second call with questionable contact that put the Heat up by one. Didn't Bennett Salvador the farthest official from the play make that call too. Didn't that call in essence decide the game as well. Don't the refs usually swallow their whistles in those moments and let the players decide the outcome. Yet they didn't do it there. There was very little contact and a foul didn't need to be called. Another incident where the refing did matter.

Who said questionable calls dont happen? And letting players decide the outcome is a cliche, refer to the showtime instance I keep repeating. That no call on the travel and weak foul call prevented Detroit from winning the title, but you wont see me saying its what made the Lakers champions.

Again, no ref will ever decide the fate of a SERIES.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 02:32 AM
I've told you, and I frankly I am sick of repeating myself to you. Wire taps cannot directly be used as evidence to convict...they can only be used to gather further evidence. Prove me wrong then and post some case law instead of using weak argument techniques. Again, you need to actually look at those articles again. Adrian Wojnarowski is a NBA columnist for Yahoo! Sports and an NBA Insider for the NBC Sports Network. One of those articles was written by him. Matt Moore is a Senior NBA Blogger and is a paid employee of CBS. He wrote an article as well. How about David Kahn who is the Minnesota Timberwolves president...he thinks the draft is rigged too and here is an article from CBS stating it. http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/29391755

I've already told you, we are on line and I am of course going to only be able to site on line articles. Did you want it in print or something?

No there are major News Companies that are online. IN fact all of them are. I am looking for a non-blog. Do you know what a blog is? Do you know what a news article is? One is based on facts.

As for the wiretaps I can get you cases in which they are used as evidence. Give me a couple minutes.

Wade>You
06-11-2012, 02:32 AM
The Lakers only have 8 titles under Stern. Most of them came before him. Get your facts straight.I know that, and you continue to avoid the question, which is how an uneducated child would argue.

cutiepie80
06-11-2012, 02:35 AM
I know that, and you continue to avoid the question, which is how an uneducated child would argue.

You are trying so hard to try to convince people that the heat don't get calls/lebron has a chance to be the greatest ever/your fanbase is great.

Just stop. Let's watch this series and then come back to this topic. Stop being so defensive about your team.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 02:38 AM
LeBron does goes calls, so does wade, durant, westbrook, kobe, rose, pierce, rondo, garnett, ellis, irving, nash, ect.

It is because they have the ball in their hands a lot and drive alot and draw contact. They get the calls and 95% of the time they are right. The other 5% is because it is a face paced game based on perception. Sometime refs are wrong it happens. Nothing that constitutes calling the game rigged.

cutiepie80
06-11-2012, 02:39 AM
LeBron does goes calls, so does wade, durant, westbrook, kobe, rose, pierce, rondo, garnett, ellis, irving, nash, ect.

It is because they have the ball in their hands a lot and drive alot and draw contact. They get the calls and 95% of the time they are right. The other 5% is because it is a face paced game based on perception. Sometime refs are wrong it happens. Nothing that constitutes calling the game rigged.

You are very optimistic.

Wade>You
06-11-2012, 02:40 AM
You are trying so hard to try to convince people that the heat don't get calls/lebron has a chance to be the greatest ever/your fanbase is great.

Just stop. Let's watch this series and then come back to this topic. Stop being so defensive about your team.The Chicago Bulls fan is complaining about calls?

The same team that has 6 championships when players and coaches around the league where screaming bloody murder for every time Jordan went to the line?

Man, it must really suck for you guys, getting to draft Rose when other small markets that have been rotting in the lottery got screwed over once again because Stern needed to prop up this dying cash cow.

Plus your annual free trip to the Eastern Conference Finals via the #1 seed courtesy of David Stern, just to have your team beaten 4-1 in the ECF to a team that's greater than yours.

I'm sorry if I don't see things your way. You guys sure have fought the good battle.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 02:42 AM
You are very optimistic.

There is no reason to rig the league. At least for someone like David Stern. He gets paid regardless of who wins. So why would he care. Why would the Pistons and Spurs of been in the finals so often if he cared about ratings? They brought in the lowest ratings for the NBA.

It just doesnt seem logical.

What is logical is that the two most talented teams are in the Finals this year. That would only make too much sense though.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 02:43 AM
And I asked you what makes you think MJ and not Showtime as the worse call or the one that birthed the superstar call?


Your literally the first person Ive heard say that, again why not point to the showtime era?

Don't remember where I heard it, but I have heard on a few occasions, members of the media mention that incident as the single point that ushered in the era of what we now accept as superstar calls. Jordan got away with it and no one made a stink about it...that set the bar on what the NBA is now able to get away with. Name me one call during the showtime era that was as significant as that one.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 02:44 AM
Don't remember where I heard it, but I have heard on a few occasions, members of the media mention that incident as the single point that ushered in the era of what we now accept as superstar calls. Jordan got away with it and no one made a stink about it...that set the bar on what the NBA is now able to get away with. Name me one call during the showtime era that was as significant as that one.

His media includes bloggers. Dont pay attention to him. If bloggers are media now then the US is in for a rude awakening.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 02:46 AM
There is no reason to rig the league. At least for someone like David Stern. He gets paid regardless of who wins. So why would he care. Why would the Pistons and Spurs of been in the finals so often if he cared about ratings? They brought in the lowest ratings for the NBA.

It just doesnt seem logical.

What is logical is that the two most talented teams are in the Finals this year. That would only make too much sense though.

LMFAO. So if someone is making good money they will never risk breaking the law to make even more money. Ya, thats never happened before. :laugh2:

Chronz
06-11-2012, 02:46 AM
Don't remember where I heard it, but I have heard on a few occasions, members of the media mention that incident as the single point that ushered in the era of what we now accept as superstar calls. Jordan got away with it and no one made a stink about it...that set the bar on what the NBA is now able to get away with. Name me one call during the showtime era that was as significant as that one.
Let me know when you remember because I would gladly educate the poor sap who mustve missed the 80's.
I have named it repeatedly in this thread. Is your knowledge of the game so limited that you dont even know your own teams history?

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 02:50 AM
LMFAO. So if someone is making good money they will never risk breaking the law to make even more money. Ya, thats never happened before. :laugh2:

Why have you failed to answer any of my questions yet you keep hounding me. THE IRS WOUD HAVE AUDITED STERN IF THERE WAS A CASE GOING ABOUT HIM RIGGING GAMES. IT IS ILLEGAL TO RIG SPORTING EVENTS, IT IS CALLED FRAUD. APPARENTLY YOU DON'T GET THAT. YOU CAN AND WILL GO TO JAIL BECAUSE OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 02:51 AM
Let me know when you remember because I would gladly educate the poor sap who mustve missed the 80's.
I have named it repeatedly in this thread. Is your knowledge of the game so limited that you dont even know your own teams history?

He is a Kobe fan not a Lakers fan. Big difference.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 02:51 AM
His media includes bloggers. Dont pay attention to him. If bloggers are media now then the US is in for a rude awakening.

Ok, now you're just acting like a fool. I have clearly given you more than just bloggers and you are now blatantly ignoring what is there for everyone to see. If you keep this kind of foolishness up I am no longer going to take you seriously enough to respond to.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 02:53 AM
He is a Kobe fan not a Lakers fan. Big difference.

Ok...there is no point in engaging with you any further. How old are you BTW? If I had to guess I would say 17.

cutiepie80
06-11-2012, 02:53 AM
There is no reason to rig the league. At least for someone like David Stern. He gets paid regardless of who wins. So why would he care. Why would the Pistons and Spurs of been in the finals so often if he cared about ratings? They brought in the lowest ratings for the NBA.

It just doesnt seem logical.

What is logical is that the two most talented teams are in the Finals this year. That would only make too much sense though.

Because a THUNDER/HEAT series is MUCH more enticing then an overaged SPURS/CELTICS series. Not saying the weaker teams won, but there is ALWAYS calls given to sports stars, it's very plain and simple. Anytime Lebron goes to the basket a foul is called.....EVERY SINGLE TIME.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 02:54 AM
Ok, now you're just acting like a fool. I have clearly given you more than just bloggers and you are now blatantly ignoring what is there for everyone to see. If you keep this kind of foolishness up I am no longer going to take you seriously enough to respond to.

No you have given me blog stories. Do you not know what a blog is?

amos1er
06-11-2012, 02:57 AM
Let me know when you remember because I would gladly educate the poor sap who mustve missed the 80's.
I have named it repeatedly in this thread. Is your knowledge of the game so limited that you dont even know your own teams history?

I was actually alive during the 80's. I'm guessing you weren't...

I've said it before and I'll say it again. IMO the Jordan push-off no call was the reference point for the modern day superstar call. I said modern day...so logically that would not apply to the showtime era.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 02:58 AM
Because a THUNDER/HEAT series is MUCH more enticing then an overaged SPURS/CELTICS series. Not saying the weaker teams won, but there is ALWAYS calls given to sports stars, it's very plain and simple. Anytime Lebron goes to the basket a foul is called.....EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Then he only drove 2.5 times game 3
4 times game 4
and 4 times in game 5.

Doesn't seem right because I watched those games. His game is driving constantly. Thanks for proving that you are another fool of PSD.

PS Rose has a torn ACL hahahahahahahaha

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 02:59 AM
Ok...there is no point in engaging with you any further. How old are you BTW? If I had to guess I would say 17.

Nope guess again. Hint I have been able to drink legally for 3 years. I know this will be tough for you. Maybe email one of you blogger buddies.

cutiepie80
06-11-2012, 03:00 AM
Then he only drove 2.5 times game 3
4 times game 4
and 4 times in game 5.

Doesn't seem right because I watched those games. His game is driving constantly. Thanks for proving that you are another fool of PSD.

PS Rose has a torn ACL hahahahahahahaha

Wait a minute.....I want to make sure everyone see's this.

"PS Rose has a torn ACL hahahahahahahaha"

and I'm another fool on PSD.

You have a good day buddy. :)

John Walls Era
06-11-2012, 03:01 AM
Then he only drove 2.5 times game 3
4 times game 4
and 4 times in game 5.

Doesn't seem right because I watched those games. His game is driving constantly. Thanks for proving that you are another fool of PSD.

PS Rose has a torn ACL hahahahahahahaha

You're not a Bulls fan?

Chronz
06-11-2012, 03:01 AM
I was actually alive during the 80's. I'm guessing you weren't...
So then why ask questions when Ive been answering them without you asking? How are you having so much trouble knowing the call Im talking about? If you were alive then your memory must be really bad. I cant fathom how a Laker fan doesnt know what call Im talking about.


I've said it before and I'll say it again. IMO the Jordan push-off no call was the reference point for the modern day superstar call. I said modern day...so logically that would not apply to the showtime era.

Again, why not point to the showtime era as the reference point for modern day superstar calls if it was a travel and then a weak foul?

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 03:02 AM
Wait a minute.....I want to make sure everyone see's this.

"PS Rose has a torn ACL hahahahahahahaha"

and I'm another fool on PSD.

You have a good day buddy. :)

You make outlandish comments. LeBron doesn't go to the FT line every time he drives. He does when he is fouled. Which is often.

Some people just watch sports with those blinders on.

John Walls Era
06-11-2012, 03:02 AM
The more agressive player usually gets more calls. Question is who will deserve the calls.

cutiepie80
06-11-2012, 03:04 AM
You make outlandish comments. LeBron doesn't go to the FT line every time he drives. He does when he is fouled. Which is often.

Some people just watch sports with those blinders on.

Umm, no.....I watch basketball games and I am pretty sure a lot of fans who aren't heat fans can see that Lebron gets a LOT of calls....a LOT.

You are the one making outlandish comments by laughing at a guy's injury. You are the one who has made yourself look like an idiot. :o

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 03:04 AM
You're not a Bulls fan?

In no way am I a Bulls fan. I can't stand the fans, the organization, or Chicago basketball media.

I am a Miami fan because they drafted a guy from Chicago named Dwayne Wade when I lived in Florida. That is all. Have been a fan ever since. I don't have the longevity most of thier fans have, but I do watch every game and even torrent some of the Mourning days stuff.

cutiepie80
06-11-2012, 03:06 AM
In no way am I a Bulls fan. I can't stand the fans, the organization, or Chicago basketball media.

I am a Miami fan because they drafted a guy from Chicago named Dwayne Wade when I lived in Florida. That is all. Have been a fan ever since. I don't have the longevity most of thier fans have, but I do watch every game and even torrent some of the Mourning days stuff.

:facepalm:

LMAO, the more you say the more I laugh.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 03:06 AM
Umm, no.....I watch basketball games and I am pretty sure a lot of fans who aren't heat fans can see that Lebron gets a LOT of calls....a LOT.

You are the one making outlandish comments by laughing at a guy's injury. You are the one who has made yourself look like an idiot. :o

I feel bad for Rose. Let's call it karma for cheating on his SAT/ACT and getting a scholarship he didn't deserve.

And I love pointing it out to Rose's fanclub because they think he is good. hahahahaha.....fake Iverson

amos1er
06-11-2012, 03:06 AM
Nope guess again. Hint I have been able to drink legally for 3 years. I know this will be tough for you. Maybe email one of you blogger buddies.

For the last and final time child....

Adrian Wojnarowski - NBA columnist for Yahoo! Sports and an NBA Insider for the NBC Sports Network.

Skip Bayless - Journalist and television personality for the ESPN network.

David Kahn - President of the Minnesota Timberwolves.

Now do those look like bloggers to you????

No, they are not, but of course you will continue to spout of the same nonsense none the less I'm sure.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 03:07 AM
:facepalm:

LMAO, the more you say the more I laugh.

What I can't like a team from where I was from with a guy who grew up 5 miles from me?

amos1er
06-11-2012, 03:08 AM
:facepalm:

LMAO, the more you say the more I laugh.

:nod:

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 03:08 AM
For the last and final time child....

Adrian Wojnarowski - NBA columnist for Yahoo! Sports and an NBA Insider for the NBC Sports Network.

Skip Bayless - Journalist and television personality for the ESPN network.

David Kahn - President of the Minnesota Timberwolves.

Now do those look like bloggers to you????

No, they are not, but of course you will continue to spout of the same nonsense none the less I'm sure.

And for the last time they are BLOGS. Opinion pieces that have no facts presented in them. Do you need me to explain what opinion is. It is not fact!

cutiepie80
06-11-2012, 03:08 AM
I feel bad for Rose. Let's call it karma for cheating on his SAT/ACT and getting a scholarship he didn't deserve.

And I love pointing it out to Rose's fanclub because they think he is good. hahahahaha.....fake Iverson

L M A O

You are amazing, every single letter you are typing is just gold. I have never seen a poster spit such trash. It's so comical. LMAO. :clap:

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 03:09 AM
L M A O

You are amazing, every single letter you are typing is just gold. I have never seen a poster spit such trash. It's so comical. LMAO. :clap:

Did he not cheat on his SAT/ACT? I believe he did, it was a scandal that was laced with facts a couple years ago. Maybe you forgot.

ChitownBears22
06-11-2012, 03:09 AM
L M A O

You are amazing, every single letter you are typing is just gold. I have never seen a poster spit such trash. It's so comical. LMAO. :clap:

Fact is he has a bum knee now to go with his bum game.

cutiepie80
06-11-2012, 03:13 AM
Fact is he has a bum knee now to go with his bum game.

True that.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 03:27 AM
So then why ask questions when Ive been answering them without you asking? How are you having so much trouble knowing the call Im talking about? If you were alive then your memory must be really bad. I cant fathom how a Laker fan doesnt know what call Im talking about.


Again, why not point to the showtime era as the reference point for modern day superstar calls if it was a travel and then a weak foul?

Look, Magic may have gotten some calls in his day, but nothing like the MJ push off no-call. Just google MJ Russell push off foul and you will see just how significant it was. Many agree that was the call set the bar for superstar calls. Anything that happened in the 80's could not be modern era. Nothing Magic had compared to that call. The only other player to receive that kind of call was D-Wade in the 2006 finals in game 5. Only that time Wade got freethrows for his bs call.

amos1er
06-11-2012, 03:36 AM
And for the last time they are BLOGS. Opinion pieces that have no facts presented in them. Do you need me to explain what opinion is. It is not fact!

ROTFLMAO!!! You have just discredited yourself entirely. If you haven't noticed, you are on a forum you freakin genius!!! Also (hold on to your mouse and keyboard) you are not even getting paid to be here unlike the guys who wrote the very stories you are discrediting. Why then should I take anything you have to say seriously according to your own logic. You being some random poster on some anonymous forum site. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Yet again...:facepalm: Skip Bayless is not a blogger, David Kahn is not a blogger, and Adrian Wojnarowski is not a blogger. :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Chronz
06-11-2012, 04:04 AM
Look, Magic may have gotten some calls in his day, but nothing like the MJ push off no-call.
LMFAO

Damn you really dont know what play Im talking about do you? How can you call yourself a Lakers fan and be so blissfully unaware of your teams history? Must be nice to think superstar calls originated with MJ. Heres a clue, Magic wasnt involved, TRY AGAIN. Cmon man its not even hard, just google it (lol). Ive given you enough information to be able to use the powers of the internet to figure it out.


Just google MJ Russell push off foul and you will see just how significant it was.
Ive googled it, not seeing what your alluding to.


Many agree that was the call set the bar for superstar calls.
Your literally the only person Ive ever heard say it was the birth of superstar calls. And Im not seeing whats so profound about the no call, its a mans game and that little nudge wasnt very impactful.


Anything that happened in the 80's could not be modern era.
Says who? YOU? LOL PASS ON THAT LOGIC. Even pretending you had a point, you still ASKED for a call that was as substantial both in magnitude and scope. Ive topped BY AND LARGE it with the travel/weak foul all in 1 play that prevented the Pistons from winning that game/chip. Compared to MJ's light tap the push was nothing. Hell that wasnt even MJ's hardest push off nor the hardest hes ever been pushed off.


Nothing Magic had compared to that call. The only other player to receive that kind of call was D-Wade in the 2006 finals in game 5. Only that time Wade got freethrows for his bs call.
Based on everything youve said, and how unaware of your teams own luck you are, I will never take your word at face value on these matters.

Chronz
06-11-2012, 04:15 AM
Well I gotta get back to work so Ill check in on this thread in the morning, let me know if you need more hints to figure out your teams own history.

basketfan4life
06-11-2012, 04:39 AM
You mean David Stern and his 5 rings. ;)

I mean LeBron James and his 0(zero rings).