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View Full Version : Mark Appel Spurns Pirates, Stays at Stanford



1903
06-10-2012, 12:55 PM
It's interesting because this is the first big situation that has come up like this under the new draft rules.

metswon69
06-10-2012, 01:38 PM
He'd be crazy not to...

He already lost a lot of money hiring Boras as his agent because i am sure he scared off plenty of teams from picking him until he was in a decent draft spot financially for a team like the Pirates to benefit.

Boras is a ******* though and he did do the same thing with Matt Harrington in 2001 so it's entirely possible.

All i know is that 2.5 to 3 million dollars is certainly better than waiting another year and possibly losing 1st round draft status altogether.

ManRam
06-10-2012, 01:43 PM
The hell if I know...

But I'd assume that it would be the wise move to do so...

C-ross12
06-10-2012, 02:12 PM
Too much on the line for him not too I'd assume. Boras really screwed him over. Should have taken the 6m at 1.1. Win win.

NateyB24
06-10-2012, 03:06 PM
I think he will because he will be a Senior next season with no leverage and he gets over used like most College pitchers better to take the top 10 money now.

MG3
06-10-2012, 03:23 PM
yes, simply because no one will pay him more next year than the slot that the Pirates got him at. THink about it, who will pay 3 million for Appel next year? He also just got rocked by FSU in the college world series

Ill21
06-10-2012, 03:27 PM
I hate Scott borASS

ccugrad1
06-10-2012, 03:28 PM
You all know more than I do about this stuff, but was Appel really a consensus #1 that this is so shocking of a fall? I have read a lot of things that said there was no definite #1 and that as many as 4 or 5 guys could have gone 1st overall.

NateyB24
06-10-2012, 03:45 PM
You all know more than I do about this stuff, but was Appel really a consensus #1 that this is so shocking of a fall? I have read a lot of things that said there was no definite #1 and that as many as 4 or 5 guys could have gone 1st overall.

No if he was thought of like that no way he falls like he did.

Mitchell133
06-10-2012, 05:24 PM
He would be absolutely STUNNED not to sign. It's actually a great organization for him to be in.

burgh_fan66
06-10-2012, 10:12 PM
You all know more than I do about this stuff, but was Appel really a consensus #1 that this is so shocking of a fall? I have read a lot of things that said there was no definite #1 and that as many as 4 or 5 guys could have gone 1st overall.

Absolutely not. There was no consensus #1 and even if you were to stretch that definition to the most frequently number 1 ranked player it would have probably been Buxton and not Appel.

I think he was pretty widely thought of as the #1 pitcher overall but even there I seen some have Gausman higher than him. I do believe however that it is pretty much a consensus opinion that he was the best available player at the #8 spot.

Anyway to answer the actual question, he will sign. Boras will put up a fight and save some face by getting slightly more than slot (3-3.2 million) but I see no way he doesn't sign.

1908_Cubs
06-10-2012, 11:54 PM
I'd be stunned if he signed, honestly unless he's over the $4m price range. He was telling teams his price tag was $7.2m. He's got Scott Boras as an agent. There's no chance that he's signing for under $4-$4.5m this year and I honestly don't think the Pirates can offer it.

I think everyone is taking this whole thing too lightly. He goes back to school and he's almost, and undoubtedly, going to be a top 2-3 pick next season again. He put up awesome numbers this season in a tough Pac10 conference. He'll probably grow a bit, put up incredible numbers, and if the kid finds even a bit more swing and miss in his game (he showed improvement this season), he'll go from future number 2 SP, to possible future ace SP with a relatively short time needed in the minor leagues.

It's hard to turn down $3.2m, certainly. But when you have Scott Boras as your agent, it's hard to turn him down, as well.

VRP723
06-11-2012, 12:00 AM
I think you're also taking it too lightly. Losing a year of MiLB development, risking injury, all to come back next year in what will be a stronger class, where's there's no guarantee teams will value him any higher.

catman
06-11-2012, 12:05 AM
Boras hasn't done him any favors at all this year. He could easily have been the #1 pick in the draft, but Boras was firm in his demand for $7.2MM. Not sure what the ceiling will be next season, but $3.2MM is not chicken feed.
I think on July 12, he'll decide that he wants to get into professional camp and sign.

1908_Cubs
06-11-2012, 12:06 AM
I think you're also taking it too lightly. Losing a year of MiLB development, risking injury, all to come back next year in what will be a stronger class, where's there's no guarantee teams will value him any higher.
Next year isn't a great class either. There's no Strasburg/Harper/Upton/Young type of a player at this point. In fact, if Appel goes back to school, there's a very good chance he's going to be the early favorite for top pick. Whitson is injury prone. Stanek has power questions. Bryant has competition questions. Wilson needs to continue to improve......

Sure you risk an injury.

There's no guarantee you don't get valued higher. But chances are, you probably do if you improve next season as well.

He wont be signing for slot. I can almost guarantee that.

VRP723
06-11-2012, 12:09 AM
This time last year people were talking about how Giolito was a surefire top pick. Things change. You can't map out the 2013 draft in early June.

I would bet he signs.

1908_Cubs
06-11-2012, 12:16 AM
This time last year people were talking about how Giolito was a surefire top pick. Things change. You can't map out the 2013 draft in early June.

I would bet he signs.
Well, first off, at this time last year, Mark Appel was nearly the consensus top pick. Giolito gained traction early this spring where many thought he might have a chance to go top pick (no RHP high school prep pitcher has ever gone number). While it's impossible to map out the 2013 draft, Appel, Gausman, Zunino and Buxton (though at this time last year Buxton was fluctuating from top 5 pick to picks 20-25) were all being consistently mocked top 5. It's not impossible to figure out who's probably going high and who's not.

Like I said, if he signs, it'll be for over $4m.

Not only does he have the school-leverage, he's got Scott Boras the superagent. Simply put, he always gets the most for his players.

Jeffy25
06-11-2012, 12:27 AM
This time last year people were talking about how Giolito was a surefire top pick. Things change. You can't map out the 2013 draft in early June.

I would bet he signs.

What?

This time last year Appel was the consensus number one. We even had a thread about him.

Giolito didn't get going on people's radars until this spring I believe.

burgh_fan66
06-11-2012, 08:56 AM
One more thing to consider is there were 7 teams that passed on him this year, all of them except the Orioles figure to be picking at the top of next year's draft as well. If they passed on him this year doesn't it seem possible they will pass next year as well?

I mean sure maybe they just passed on him because they liked another player better but there is little he can do next year to emerge heads and shoulders above the rest of the draft. Its also true that some new teams like maybe the As and the Rockies will be up there so maybe they will take a shot but basically he is dealing with the same teams who passed on him already.

Pinstripe pride
06-11-2012, 09:52 AM
i think he will. might be at the deadline, but ultimaetly he will

1908_Cubs
06-11-2012, 09:59 AM
One more thing to consider is there were 7 teams that passed on him this year, all of them except the Orioles figure to be picking at the top of next year's draft as well. If they passed on him this year doesn't it seem possible they will pass next year as well?

I mean sure maybe they just passed on him because they liked another player better but there is little he can do next year to emerge heads and shoulders above the rest of the draft. Its also true that some new teams like maybe the As and the Rockies will be up there so maybe they will take a shot but basically he is dealing with the same teams who passed on him already.

Or they passed on him because Boras was telling teams Appel's price. Which is likely what happened outside of Minnesota and Seattle who were going to pick offense, anyways.

That's what people are missing here. 4-5 other teams were so worried about his price tag, they essentially passed on him. I highly doubt that teams decided coming into the draft on the last day that Appel wasn't as good as Gausman, Zimmer and Fried. But when you factor in money, he clearly wasn't as good as some of those guys.

burgh_fan66
06-11-2012, 11:35 AM
Or they passed on him because Boras was telling teams Appel's price. Which is likely what happened outside of Minnesota and Seattle who were going to pick offense, anyways.

That's what people are missing here. 4-5 other teams were so worried about his price tag, they essentially passed on him. I highly doubt that teams decided coming into the draft on the last day that Appel wasn't as good as Gausman, Zimmer and Fried. But when you factor in money, he clearly wasn't as good as some of those guys.

OK so lets go with your theory. These teams then passed on him because they didn't want to deal with Boras. These same teams will be drafting at the top again next year and will probably once again not want to deal with Boras. So his bonus falls again. He really has little to gain from not signing. The #5 pick in this years draft got 3 million, that is basically what he will get this year so essentially he would have bank on a team in the top 3 drafting him, dealing with Boras and then paying him full slot or more in order to justify going back to college. Nevermind the fact that the teams likely to be picking in the top 3 next year just passed on him this year because of not wanting to deal with Boras.

Its a cycle he can't escape.

1908_Cubs
06-11-2012, 11:52 AM
OK so lets go with your theory. These teams then passed on him because they didn't want to deal with Boras. These same teams will be drafting at the top again next year and will probably once again not want to deal with Boras. So his bonus falls again. He really has little to gain from not signing. The #5 pick in this years draft got 3 million, that is basically what he will get this year so essentially he would have bank on a team in the top 3 drafting him, dealing with Boras and then paying him full slot or more in order to justify going back to college. Nevermind the fact that the teams likely to be picking in the top 3 next year just passed on him this year because of not wanting to deal with Boras.

Its a cycle he can't escape.

No. I said they didn't want to pay the price Boras was putting on his head. Why do you think Houston passed? They contacted Appel, Appel and Boras said "no" to $6m. That's not a theory, that's reported by the national media. You don't think every other team in front of Pittsburgh did the same damn thing? You think from June 3rd where most draftniks had Appel ranked as their number 1 SP and among the top 2 picks, to June 4th, that the first 7 teams decided they "liked" other players better for any other reason than they liked their price tag better? Especially teams like the Orioles, Royals and Padres who drafted other SP's and the Cubs who have one glaring weakness in their system (SP)? One or two of those teams having other players ranked ahead of him might make sense. All four? Very and highly unlikely.

You do realize why Zimmer got $3m, right? Prior to this season, Zimmer was on zero watch list. He's the biggest riser in the draft. He was always going to be the cheapest player in the top 5. The Cubs selected Almora right after him (his slot is $3.25m) and he's likely going to get more than Zimmer. Using Zimmer as the barometer is silly.

He has a ton to gain from not signing. Granted, he has a ton to lose, as well. But if he comes back next season and goes top pick (which if he goes back, I think he'll be a very good bet to go number 1) he'll gain a ton of money.

If you think he's signing for $3m you're kidding yourself.

gaughan333
06-11-2012, 12:15 PM
I can't see any way the cubs would have actually passed on Appel if he only wanted 3 mil. I don't care how big of a boner Theo and co. had for Almora

MG3
06-11-2012, 12:22 PM
Mark Appel will sign for less than $4 million and it's a fact. He has NOTHING to gain.

Does he honestly believe next year that someone will throw more than $4 million at him?

If Appel goes number 1, he could still be lowballed by a team, and if he refuses to sign that deal, that team would get the number 2 in a stronger draft. It just doesn't make any sense for him not to sign especially after getting CRUSHED by FSU

roylikeswaffles
06-11-2012, 12:42 PM
I can't really see Appel signing with the way things turned out for him.

Jeffy25
06-11-2012, 01:46 PM
Mark Appel will sign for less than $4 million and it's a fact. He has NOTHING to gain.

Does he honestly believe next year that someone will throw more than $4 million at him?

If Appel goes number 1, he could still be lowballed by a team, and if he refuses to sign that deal, that team would get the number 2 in a stronger draft. It just doesn't make any sense for him not to sign especially after getting CRUSHED by FSU

I have to say you are right.

He goes back into the draft, he will be an easy sign next year, and can be low-balled next year.

Which is why I think he will sign, this is the last year he actually has any decent leverage unless he wants to go to independent ball.

VRP723
06-11-2012, 02:11 PM
What?

This time last year Appel was the consensus number one. We even had a thread about him.

Giolito didn't get going on people's radars until this spring I believe.

My point was that 1) it's too early to say "This player will go here in next year's draft" and 2) Things can change an awful lot in an instant, with reference to Giolito.

Jeffy25
06-11-2012, 02:14 PM
My point was that 1) it's too early to say "This player will go here in next year's draft" and 2) Things can change an awful lot in an instant, with reference to Giolito.

Fully understand, but I don't know how you can say next years draft class will be superior to this one. Although it's probably likely, this class was rather weak.

NateyB24
06-11-2012, 02:20 PM
Or they passed on him because Boras was telling teams Appel's price. Which is likely what happened outside of Minnesota and Seattle who were going to pick offense, anyways.

That's what people are missing here. 4-5 other teams were so worried about his price tag, they essentially passed on him. I highly doubt that teams decided coming into the draft on the last day that Appel wasn't as good as Gausman, Zimmer and Fried. But when you factor in money, he clearly wasn't as good as some of those guys.

I disagree Seattle would of taken him if they thought he was worth the price tag Jack never shys away from the BPA like last year when we took Hultzen over Rendon we didn't need pitching then either.

Jeffy25
06-11-2012, 02:46 PM
Or they passed on him because Boras was telling teams Appel's price. Which is likely what happened outside of Minnesota and Seattle who were going to pick offense, anyways.

That's what people are missing here. 4-5 other teams were so worried about his price tag, they essentially passed on him. I highly doubt that teams decided coming into the draft on the last day that Appel wasn't as good as Gausman, Zimmer and Fried. But when you factor in money, he clearly wasn't as good as some of those guys.


According to multiple reports, Appel slipped not because of money, but because the teams had Appel further down on their draft board. They thought Zimmer/Gausman were better.

Maybe they are just saying that, maybe it's true. I don't know. But it's been reported.

1903
07-09-2012, 04:54 PM
Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeymanCBS

Mark Appel, rhp picked No. 8 overall, is leaning against signing w/ the pirates for $3.8M to instead return to stanford

Looks like he might not sign. Straight from PSD's favourite insider.

1908_Cubs
07-09-2012, 04:59 PM
Not being a dick, but I kind of called this.

Ya'll have to realize, Appel's already got money - his family is loaded. Part of this could simply be about him not wanting to play in Pittsburgh.

ManRam
07-09-2012, 05:30 PM
Not being a dick, but I kind of called this.

Ya'll have to realize, Appel's already got money - his family is loaded. Part of this could simply be about him not wanting to play in Pittsburgh.

Well, I hope Houston, Minnesota or something like that ;)



I doubt it's because of location. I might be wrong, but i'm just it's more money-related or has to do with his desire to play for Stanford. But obviously, I'm not in his head so IDK.

mikepelfrey
07-09-2012, 05:32 PM
i cant see him signing Boras has too much to lose. i can see Appel going to the independent league and Boras trying to force an end around to bring him to free agency. Boras relishes a challenge and if he has to hold a player Hostage to do it so be it.

this being the first year of the new draft rules, I can definitely see Boras doing this deliberately to set up a legal challenge

burgh_fan66
07-09-2012, 05:33 PM
That looks like a pure Boras tactic there. I still think its better than 50/50 he signs.

burgh_fan66
07-09-2012, 05:34 PM
i cant see him signing Boras has too much to lose. i can see Appel going to the independent league and Boras trying to force an end around to bring him to free agency. Boras relishes a challenge and if he has to hold a player Hostage to do it so be it.

this being the first year of the new draft rules, I can definitely see Boras doing this deliberately to set up a legal challenge

Look at past drafts. Boras's clients sign. Might Appellate not sure but I still say he will.

mikepelfrey
07-09-2012, 05:54 PM
he may, but the new rules and the slotting system have severely limited the money that drafted players can make, and they had no say in these new rules, so from a purely legal standpoint Boras may think he has another card to play.

it may not happen, but I am certain that it is an option that Boras has considered, he has always thought outside the box in order to get the best deal he can for his clients and if there is any chance at all that he can get free agency for prospective draftees, you know that Boras, will find a way to exploit the possibility

the key is that these draftees had no say in these new rules, and it can be shown that their earning ability has been affected by their implementation and if there is any chance that Boras can use that then i have no doubt that he's itching to find a loophole to mount a legal challenge

i was surprised that he didnt say something before the rules were changed, but maybe he needed an athlete to act as a test case. Appel certainly has a valid argument considering the Astro's $6.1M offer was public and now the offer is basically half that.....

that could conceivably be considered a restraint of trade

burgh_fan66
07-09-2012, 06:43 PM
I don't believe the Astros offer was public merely rumored. Working on predraft deals is prohibitted by MLB. Plus I think I even saw someone refute the notion that an offer ever took place.

I still thinks he signs and we will find out soon enough.

KidK34
07-09-2012, 07:21 PM
I agree with 1908 on this, IMO he certainly scared teams to death when he asked for 7.2. the guy is delusional so i wouldn't be surprised to see him head back to Stanford even if he has "nothing to gain"

VenezuelanMet
07-09-2012, 07:24 PM
Is he aware that pitchers blow their arms routinely? Would be pretty funny if he gets injured next season and doesn't sign.

thawv
07-09-2012, 07:36 PM
I have to say you are right.

He goes back into the draft, he will be an easy sign next year, and can be low-balled next year.

Which is why I think he will sign, this is the last year he actually has any decent leverage unless he wants to go to independent ball.

This is most likely gonna be the key to him signing.

Jeffy25
07-09-2012, 07:43 PM
know what's funny, there are draft picks ahead of him that still haven't signed

ManRam
07-09-2012, 07:44 PM
Is he aware that pitchers blow their arms routinely? Would be pretty funny if he gets injured next season and doesn't sign.

I wouldn't say it's funny...but it's certainly a possibility.

It's his life. He can do what he wants. I have no idea what his motives are...but yeah...I won't be mad at him either way. It's his life.

Fly
07-09-2012, 07:52 PM
Is he aware that pitchers blow their arms routinely? Would be pretty funny if he gets injured next season and doesn't sign.

How would that be funny? :confused:

mikepelfrey
07-09-2012, 10:16 PM
I don't believe the Astros offer was public merely rumored. Working on predraft deals is prohibitted by MLB. Plus I think I even saw someone refute the notion that an offer ever took place.

I still thinks he signs and we will find out soon enough.

even if if it were a rumor, when you consider what Strasburg signed for 15.1M and Bryce Harper at $18.9M. all Boras would need is a client willing to fight the system.

speaking strictly from legal precedent standpoint, MLB has to know that MLBPA technically has no legal standing to negotiate away the rights of non members so if Appel were inclined to make an issue of this, one would think he could at the very least get a temporary injunction.

I've no inside knowledge on this of course, but Boras has always used every available tactic to get the best deal for his clients. it just wouldnt surprise me if this was a consideration since Boras and Appel had to know that the Astros has the biggest slot bonus available and that no other team could offer his request of 7.2M without losing a future 1st round selection

he may sign but if he does since Pittsburgh can only offer $3.84M, if im Appel id be pretty pissed at Boras, since he could have waited til he was drafted #1 before making his demands known, the Astros slot was exactly 7.2 M so Appel was basically saying i want 1st pick money something only the Astros could offer..... so their request was definitely something Boras knew would likely be turned down.

NateyB24
07-10-2012, 12:12 AM
I think he will sign at the last second but he could go back to school Keith Law says the 2013 class look's pretty weak so unless he gets injured he will still probably be a top 10 pick again.

SenorGato
07-10-2012, 12:19 AM
Appel is being an idiot. When is the last time this worked out great for the player? Hochevar got picked first, sure, but it also turns out he really sucks and has a career ERA in the 5's.

The sad thing is that if he signed the highest he is is the Pirates' #2 pitching prospect, because he's nowhere near as good as Cole is. I'd argue that Taillon is better as well. I repeat, this is a guy who views himself as the #1 talent in the draft and he wouldn't even be a bottom tier (yes, I get they're trying to come up now and seeing a level of success they haven't seen since Bonds was there) franchise's #1 or even #2 prospect.

The Pirates should say **** him, take the #9 pick next year, and watch his ship sink. He's still not even a lock to be the #1 pitcher next year because Stanek is just as nasty and has dominated better competition in college.

SenorGato
07-10-2012, 12:23 AM
OTOH I sadly totally get why he's doing why he's being a dick. He wasn't supposed to end up the 8th pick in this draft, and the slotting system hurts talented fallers like himself.

Nymfan87
07-10-2012, 12:35 AM
OTOH I sadly totally get why he's doing why he's being a dick. He wasn't supposed to end up the 8th pick in this draft, and the slotting system hurts talented fallers like himself.

It will teach players to stop being dicks about signing. If you have Boras as your agent because you want to play hardball, don't be shocked when teams play hardball right back at you and you fall in the draft. This reminds me of that guy the Rockies drafted and offered $4 million to, and he got less and less money every year after that and ended up with like 250k.

metswon69
07-10-2012, 12:48 AM
It could be Matt Harrington all over again if he isn't careful, he better hope he doesn't get injured or drops significantly in next year's draft.

He might make teams skiddish next year to draft him early in the first round too if he decides not to sign.

SenorGato
07-10-2012, 03:17 AM
It will teach players to stop being dicks about signing. If you have Boras as your agent because you want to play hardball, don't be shocked when teams play hardball right back at you and you fall in the draft. This reminds me of that guy the Rockies drafted and offered $4 million to, and he got less and less money every year after that and ended up with like 250k.

I think teams just did their homework on Appel. Last year was the closest he came to putting up a dominant season in college. It's the only season he struck out more than a better per inning and the only one where he gave up less hits than IP. That's not what you want out of a guy with his kind of dollar demands with the #1 overall pick.

That's at least some of why he didn't go #1 overall despite his tools. The bonus demands just made it easier. Fact is if he was as good as Cole/Bauer/Pomeranz/Hultzen/etc in college then his demands would be pretty reasonable given his talent level.

Edit: I have to add that Scott Boras is great for baseball. The man is a legend....Greatest sports agent, ever, hands downs no questions. Nobody does more and gets more for their athletes. I like Appel more than other guys who pulled the don't sign thing, Crow and Hochevar, and I don't see this becoming a Harrington situation. He's a Stanford athlete for one, so he's not going to end up at CostCo, but generally he's just more talented than those guys. We'll have to see if he signs and if not, how his year goes.

Jeffy25
07-10-2012, 03:55 AM
Edit: I have to add that Scott Boras is great for baseball. The man is a legend....Greatest sports agent, ever, hands downs no questions. Nobody does more and gets more for their athletes.

:clap:

Fully agree, big time!

burgh_fan66
07-10-2012, 10:32 AM
I would like to point out two reasons why I think Appel will sign.

1.) If he chooses to enter the draft again next year and try to get more momney, guess what basically the same tems that passed on him this year will once again be picking at the top of the draft. There will be exceptions of course but the Mariners, Twins, Royals, Astros, Cubs and Padres all look like they will be back at the top. Now maybe the Rockies or Phillies or another team that falls apart sees him as worth more but thats six teams who have already passed on you once.

2.) If Boras does plan on challenging the system and claim the new rules are unfair to his advisee and cost him money wouldn't that be easier to do if he signed? I mean think about it how can they make the claim that the rules unfairly cost Appel x amount of dollars when in fact the rules cost him nothing because he didn't sign. It seems like the fight would be easier within the system than outside of it.

metswon69
07-10-2012, 02:43 PM
I think teams just did their homework on Appel. Last year was the closest he came to putting up a dominant season in college. It's the only season he struck out more than a better per inning and the only one where he gave up less hits than IP. That's not what you want out of a guy with his kind of dollar demands with the #1 overall pick.

That's at least some of why he didn't go #1 overall despite his tools. The bonus demands just made it easier. Fact is if he was as good as Cole/Bauer/Pomeranz/Hultzen/etc in college then his demands would be pretty reasonable given his talent level.

Edit: I have to add that Scott Boras is great for baseball. The man is a legend....Greatest sports agent, ever, hands downs no questions. Nobody does more and gets more for their athletes. I like Appel more than other guys who pulled the don't sign thing, Crow and Hochevar, and I don't see this becoming a Harrington situation. He's a Stanford athlete for one, so he's not going to end up at CostCo, but generally he's just more talented than those guys. We'll have to see if he signs and if not, how his year goes.

Actually interesting side note to that story, Harrington's parents insured his arm through Lloyds of London and collected a substantial amount of money after he had rotator cuff surgery.

He also settled out of of court with his agent Tommy Tanzer for mismanagement so it's not all a depressing story of the athlete that went from possible riches to rags.

With a Stanford education, hopefully Appel thinks about doing the same thing (insuring his arm).

metswon69
07-10-2012, 02:52 PM
As for this career move Appel is making, i think he is making a mistake.

Although finishing up a Stanford degree can never really be a mistake, he has the opportunity to play on an up and coming team that looks very dangerous the next 5 years and he is turning down a boatload of money.

I understand he could go higher in next year's draft if he repeats his performance, but there are a lot of risks he is taking.

I mean injury, a better than expected crop of guys next year, and the fact that he didn't sign last year could all affect when he is drafted next year.

I wouldn't have taken the chance but to each their own i guess...

mikepelfrey
07-13-2012, 10:52 PM
well he did not sign, which is what i expected, now we will see if they decide to make an issue of it.....

sad for the bucs however but they did gain Gerrit cole the same way after he failed to be signed by the Yankees in much the same way so i guess they had to expect that it could happen......

but i am eagerly waiting to see if Boras and Appel try to do something about this. what I dont know but it would not surprise me if they do

utl768
07-14-2012, 03:01 AM
i root for people like this to fail miserably

utl768
07-14-2012, 03:03 AM
I think teams just did their homework on Appel. Last year was the closest he came to putting up a dominant season in college. It's the only season he struck out more than a better per inning and the only one where he gave up less hits than IP. That's not what you want out of a guy with his kind of dollar demands with the #1 overall pick.

That's at least some of why he didn't go #1 overall despite his tools. The bonus demands just made it easier. Fact is if he was as good as Cole/Bauer/Pomeranz/Hultzen/etc in college then his demands would be pretty reasonable given his talent level.

Edit: I have to add that Scott Boras is great for baseball. The man is a legend....Greatest sports agent, ever, hands downs no questions. Nobody does more and gets more for their athletes. I like Appel more than other guys who pulled the don't sign thing, Crow and Hochevar, and I don't see this becoming a Harrington situation. He's a Stanford athlete for one, so he's not going to end up at CostCo, but generally he's just more talented than those guys. We'll have to see if he signs and if not, how his year goes.

if ur his client he is a great agent but his means and strategies have greatly contributed to the huge monetary problem in baseball

1903
07-14-2012, 12:07 PM
I guess Appel wanted to show the majority in this thread that they were wrong. ;)

sexicano31
07-14-2012, 12:13 PM
i root for people like this to fail miserably

You are a great human being

1908_Cubs
07-14-2012, 12:43 PM
Hey. Not sayin'....but....just sayin'.

slugger82685
07-14-2012, 12:50 PM
He is gonna be in the same situation next year so I dont see why he didnt just sign. He wants more than the suggested slot amount because he was suppose to be #1 overall, deal with it and still make your millions....that being said, he is still a Stanford student so if some injury or something happens he will still have a great degree, but I think he is taking a huge risk for his baseball career.

NateyB24
07-14-2012, 01:09 PM
I figured he would take the $ just to be safe but according to Keith Law next years draft could be weaker then this one and he could have a shot at being a #1 pick.

Yankee Clipper
07-14-2012, 01:48 PM
NEW YORK -- Highly touted pitcher Mark Appel spurned the Pittsburgh Pirates and decided to remain at Stanford for his senior season, the first big casualty of baseball's new restrictions on amateur signing bonuses.

Appel was the only unsigned player among 31 first-round picks, turning down an offer of $3.8 million from the Pirates.

Projected by some to be the No. 1 selection, some teams shied away from the right-hander because of the expected demands of his adviser, Scott Boras. Appel was selected eighth by the Pirates.

That slot was assigned $2.9 million from the drafting team's bonus pool in baseball's new labor contract, which imposes penalties on clubs that exceed the threshold -- the totals of the slots for a team's selections in the first 10 rounds.

Pittsburgh was prepared to go as much as 5 percent above its threshold and incur the first level of penalty, a 75 percent tax on the overage. But the Pirates didn't want to fall into higher levels, which include the loss of future draft picks.

"After much thought, prayer and analysis of both opportunities, I came to the conclusion the best decision is to remain at Stanford continuing my studies, finishing my degree, and doing all I can to assist the Cardinal baseball team in our goal to win a national championship," Appel said in a statement. "I greatly valued the prospect of a professional opportunity and I will pursue a professional baseball career after getting my Stanford degree."

Appel, who turns 21 on Sunday, also failed to sign in 2009, when Detroit selected him in the 15th round with the 450th pick after his final season with Monte Vista High in San Ramon, Calif. Appel will go back into next year's draft.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8164488/mark-appel-spurns-pittsburgh-pirates-stay-stanford

mikepelfrey
07-14-2012, 02:04 PM
considering how keith law and others are now talking about the flaws in the slotting system and some in the game are calling for changes i think boras won again

JNev
07-14-2012, 04:49 PM
Appel you're a jack***. I was drooling over our system of Cole, Taillon, Appel, Heredia. Talk about a staff... :drool:

dtmagnet
07-14-2012, 05:03 PM
Looks like that Appel had a worm in it.....get it? ....... Guys?

gaughan333
07-14-2012, 08:16 PM
I hate it, but Boras always wins

Fly
07-14-2012, 08:22 PM
Why would Appel do this? Did he really think his draft stock would skyrocket? Why turn down 3 million dollars and gamble like that?

WhiskeyBear
07-14-2012, 08:32 PM
Why would Appel do this? Did he really think his draft stock would skyrocket? Why turn down 3 million dollars and gamble like that?

Because Boras

SenorGato
07-14-2012, 08:42 PM
I think I'm now rooting for him to be dominant for Stanford this year. Glad there's another arm in the 2013 college pool because neither Stanek or Whitson has separated themselves. Won't exactly be old at 22.

DodgerBlue8188
07-14-2012, 08:54 PM
What's the max he could get if he was a number 1 pick?

MetsFanatic19
07-14-2012, 09:10 PM
wow. sucks for pittsburgh

ciaban
07-14-2012, 09:42 PM
the max that the pirates could offer was 3.8 million anymore they would have lost their draft pick next year, as it is it's not to bad they will have the #9 pick to go along with whatever other pick they will have

ciaban
07-14-2012, 09:56 PM
What's the max he could get if he was a number 1 pick?

what ever you can get, though if teams spend more than 5% what they were slotted than they loose picks, but if you get everyone else under slot than w/e

DodgerBlue8188
07-14-2012, 11:15 PM
what ever you can get, though if teams spend more than 5% what they were slotted than they loose picks, but if you get everyone else under slot than w/e


Okay that's what I meant, what's the highest you can get for a number 1 slot?

UPRock
07-14-2012, 11:19 PM
He's a ******.

mikepelfrey
07-14-2012, 11:22 PM
Appel isnt a fool here The pirates actually are..... they took a calculated risk knowing full well this might happen and it bit them

remember the Astros were going to draft him number 1, they even negotiated with him

the Astros had 7.2M as a slot allowance for Appel, that was the MLB recommended amount. so as the prospective 1st pick Appel had every right to ask for that

but the Astros decided to go cheap and offer less then the MLB recommended amount.

The pirates knew when they drafted Appel that he had aready turned down reportedly 6.1M, which was almost double than what the Pirates recommended slot amount was

it was a calculated gamble they took thinking that they could let pressure get the kid to sign for less

if they werent willing to go beyond the Slot recommendation, they shouldnt have drafted him plain and simple

i give the kid credit, he had the courage to believe in his own worth, and its a substantial risk that he is taking

but those fans giving the pirates a pass on this and faulting Appel are dead wrong

The pirates knew all this before they used their pick

they thought they could leverage the kid into signing for way less than he had already turned down

They were wrong

I applaud the courage of Appel's convictions

mikepelfrey
07-14-2012, 11:33 PM
Okay that's what I meant, what's the highest you can get for a number 1 slot?

7.2M for the number 1 slot this year

the pirates were asking him to take 2.3M less than he had already been offered by the Astros before the draft

in effect the pirates were asking him to take 40% Less than he had already been offered

the pirates knew that before they drafted him

roylikeswaffles
07-15-2012, 12:13 AM
The Pirates can't be surprised by this.

JNev
07-15-2012, 02:27 AM
The Pirates can't be surprised by this.

Stupidity of humans should never really be surprising you're right

SenorGato
07-15-2012, 02:27 AM
What's the max he could get if he was a number 1 pick?

No one knows 2013, but this year was about 7.2 million before a penalty. ~7.56 if they had to go over but didn't want to lose a pick.

His stock has much room to go up as it does down. Giolito is a HS pitcher who just got 3 million despite being injured, there's a decent chance Appel can pull off better.

WrightStuff82
07-15-2012, 11:12 AM
mikepelfrey,

Appel is a fool. He doesn't stand a prayer of getting that kind of money next year. He will not be drafted #1 next year for the same reason he wasn't drafted #1 this year. He's not worth that kind of money under the new system. Teams with the #1 pick have the gift of being able to get hard-to-sign guys later in the draft thanks to the larger allotment. They aren't going to blow the entire slot on guy that will be going on 23 years old.

The major wrinkle is if a team does decide they want him at #1, they can STILL draft the hard-to-sign guys and pay them overslot and do it FIRST, so their allotment pool shrinks for what they can pay Appel, increasing their leverage. NOBODY is going to give up a future first round pick. NOBODY.

This was beyond foolish. The only other logical possibility out there is that Boras is planning a court challenge to the new system and has convinced Appel (the fool) to be his pawn.

Unless Boras successfully busts up the system, There is 0% chance Appel is offered more than $3.8 million next year unless he goes absolutely Strasburg at SD State on everybody.. Very unlikely. Even then he has very little leverage to turn down another deal in the same range.

Regarding the "rumors" that MLB owners don't like this and might change it back to the old way? LOL in Boras' dreams. They are saving a fortune with this new system. It's going nowhere.

mikepelfrey
07-15-2012, 11:35 AM
Id argue he has a better than even chance

since Law and Goldstein both seem to think the coming draft isnt as good, all Appel needs is to be drafted one slot higher

since the higher the pick is the larger the Slot allocation for that pick

remember, even when the Astros were going to pick Appel first, he wasnt asking for more than his slot allowed

thats what you arent considering

if anyone was a fool it was the pirates front office since they knew they were going to be asking Appel to take less than he was originally offered......in effect a 40% pay cut

and yet i dont see the pirates as foolish either, they merely took a calculated risk, one that unfortunately for them didnt pay off.

I applaud their motives, if not their execution.

baseball is at fault here, having a slotting system with penalties hurt the pirates opportunity to better themselves, not Appel

if you were offered 6.1 M and then someone else offered you 3.8M, youre not going to want to sign either

As with most things Bud Selig does, his actions here had the exact opposite effect than he intended

Was it Appel's fault that the Astros didnt want to pay the recommended Slot bonus to the first pick

the truth is some pirate fans are butthurt because Appel didnt fold like a house of cards

you got Gerrit Cole because of the system, after he didnt sign, this time the risk didnt pay off

were you calling Cole a fool too? how was what he did any different than what Appel did?

it worked for Gerrit Cole, it can work for Mark Appel, being a butthurt pirate fan doesnt change that, if anything Pirate fans should be happy since Cole is thought to be the better of the two

WrightStuff82
07-15-2012, 01:15 PM
Getting drafted higher next year does not guarantee he'll get more dollars!!! I already explained why and he has absolutely zero leverage next year. You think a team will offer him $6m if they take him first next year?! HAH! They don't have to offer him half of that! Where's he going to go? Where's his leverage? Piss another year away in the Indy leagues? "Okay, a 23 year old with nothing but college experience wants to turn down $3m? Screw em, we'll take a #1 compensation pick in 2014 when there are bigger stars coming out" The teams have Appel by the ****ing nutsack next year!

Unless Appel has a Strasburg-season, he's not getting more money.. Sorry. And the risk is there for significantly less money if he has an off year or he gets hurt. Turning down that money was one of the dumbest things of all time. Look up Matt Harrington, and that was when the deck was stacked in the player favor! Next year's class will not be so pathetically abysmal that he'll be the only player that stands out. Dozens of top prospects will emerge and move up the charts over the next 11 months.

Why do you keep saying You? I'm not a Pirates fan. I'm an objective outside observer. The potential downside is enormous vs the upside. Only a total fool or a brainwashed pawn would listen to Boras on this.

Jeffy25
07-15-2012, 01:32 PM
Appel really messed up here.

There is no way he tops the offer he was made this year next year. No way.

He loses all his leverage, and it was insane to demand more just because he is upset he slipped in the draft.

He Matt Harrington ****ed up here. Hopefully he signs next year, and isn't stupid enough to go to independent ball.

Even if he gets drafted higher in next years draft, he has no leverage to not sign. He will be a below slot signing next year, regardless of where he is drafted.

DodgersFanFor23
07-15-2012, 01:43 PM
^ I agree

1908_Cubs
07-15-2012, 02:28 PM
Appel really messed up here.

There is no way he tops the offer he was made this year next year. No way.

He loses all his leverage, and it was insane to demand more just because he is upset he slipped in the draft.

He Matt Harrington ****ed up here. Hopefully he signs next year, and isn't stupid enough to go to independent ball.

Even if he gets drafted higher in next years draft, he has no leverage to not sign. He will be a below slot signing next year, regardless of where he is drafted.

Appel comes from an already loaded family. Money doesn't really matter so much to him as location, location, location. Honestly, I doubt the money really matters that much to him.

Jeffy25
07-15-2012, 02:36 PM
Appel comes from an already loaded family. Money doesn't really matter so much to him as location, location, location. Honestly, I doubt the money really matters that much to him.

You would think playing professional baseball is probably important though.

And this was a great chance to make that happen.

If he just didn't want to be a Pirate, that would be one thing, and he can certainly go pitch for Stanford. But why would you not want to play baseball professionally and get to the big leagues as quickly as possible?

Something most people don't seem to realize, that these Juniors in college aren't going to learn that much more their senior years in terms of development. It's time to get into a farm system and into a program that will promote you as you develop. Rarely does a guy go straight to Double A or anything.

1908_Cubs
07-15-2012, 02:39 PM
You would think playing professional baseball is probably important though.

And this was a great chance to make that happen.

If he just didn't want to be a Pirate, that would be one thing, and he can certainly go pitch for Stanford. But why would you not want to play baseball professionally and get to the big leagues as quickly as possible?

Something most people don't seem to realize, that these Juniors in college aren't going to learn that much more their senior years in terms of development. It's time to get into a farm system and into a program that will promote you as you develop. Rarely does a guy go straight to Double A or anything.

He's not going to develop. He's going to not sign in Pittsburgh.

He seems very worried about where he's going. If he's got to delay that a year, than so be it, it seems.

SenorGato
07-15-2012, 02:43 PM
You would think playing professional baseball is probably important though.

And this was a great chance to make that happen.

Appel isn't going to not be in professional baseball this time next year.

The guy and the people around him at x10 smarter than Matt Harrington.

You're also selling short of what graduating from Stanford can mean. This probably isn't Matt Leinart going back to school to dance. The guys who get to AA extremely fast are all guys like him...extremely talented college players/pitchers.

Jeffy25
07-15-2012, 03:08 PM
Appel isn't going to not be in professional baseball this time next year.

The guy and the people around him at x10 smarter than Matt Harrington.

You're also selling short of what graduating from Stanford can mean. This probably isn't Matt Leinart going back to school to dance. The guys who get to AA extremely fast are all guys like him...extremely talented college players/pitchers.

And if he signed, he would probably be starting there post spring-training in 2013, instead of pitching another year at Stanford and after being drafted and signed going to High A.

He can also get his Stanford degree while in the minor leagues, like Allen Craig got his while in the minors for the Cardinals.


And what about the drawbacks?

Likely to be drafted lower next year, won't get as much money, if he gets hurt, then what? Did they get an insurance policy on him getting hurt?

Likely delays his eventual MLB time clock.

I can't see the upside of doing this, unless he is just trying to avoid being a Pirate. Which I don't care who you are, I'd rather play for my least favorite team and be a big leaguer, then to potentially waste that opportunity.

I'm sure he'll be fine, but I don't see how this was a good choice here. The only player that I can think of that turned down his Junior year offer and it worked out for him was Luke Hochevar.

WrightStuff82
07-15-2012, 03:11 PM
He's not going to develop. He's going to not sign in Pittsburgh.

He seems very worried about where he's going. If he's got to delay that a year, than so be it, it seems.


If location is that important to him, and he's worried about comfort, than he likely doesn't have the mental makeup to make it as a major leaguer anyway and the Pirates dodged a bullet. What's he going to do if he is in AAA and gets traded? Take his ball and go home?

All of these questions are enough for alot of GM's to say screw em. I would take odds on him falling out of of the Top 10 next year. Take a high upside HS Senior or a 22-23 year old with no pro experience and questionable desire and mental toughness?

Jeffy25
07-15-2012, 03:42 PM
once again you show your ignorance

his leverage is that he didnt sign this year, if he has a good year at stanford teams will know he wont be lowballed. he was considered the top prospect this year, and next years class is expected to be less talented

the fact is most players expect slot money especially when represented by Scott Boras. you dont make the deans list at Stanford by being stupid, and I seem to remember John Elway, a fellow Stanford athlete, doing pretty much the same thing 30 years ago and that didnt hurt him one iota

to you, a wannabe, he made a poor decision, because you'll never see $3 million in your lifetime, but part of the reason Mark is an exceptional athlete is that he has a healthy level of belief in himself. dont assume his motivations are the same as yours

I swear to God, you have got to stop with the senseless attacks. Stop it.

He isn't going to have the same leverage next year that he has this year. His leverage next year is Independent ball or sign. If he isn't drafted above 8th next year, he isn't going to top the same financial investment, and he is probably going to have to sign for below slot, like all college seniors do.

It's going to be hard for him to be a top 8 pick again next year, being a year older and with everything that happened this year.

1903
07-15-2012, 03:50 PM
I swear to God, you have got to stop with the senseless attacks. Stop it.

I really do not see where he crossed a line. He said you were showing your ignorance, which I have seen posted many times (something similar). Is "wannabe" really that bad?

Jeffy25
07-15-2012, 03:53 PM
I really do not see where he crossed a line. He said you were showing your ignorance, which I have seen posted many times (something similar). Is "wannabe" really that bad?

second post of the day to me, other one was a little worse. And that was full of senseless attacks.

'3 million is more than you will ever make in your lifetime'

As if he would know, or as if that would matter in making an objective opinion on a players decision to turn down the Pirates offer.

I shouldn't be continuing to talk about it, but he isn't really making an attempt to discuss this. He is just arguing with the poster, not the discussion.

WrightStuff82
07-15-2012, 04:30 PM
once again you show your ignorance

his leverage is that he didnt sign this year, if he has a good year at stanford teams will know he wont be lowballed. he was considered the top prospect this year, and next years class is expected to be less talented

the fact is most players expect slot money especially when represented by Scott Boras. you dont make the deans list at Stanford by being stupid, and I seem to remember John Elway, a fellow Stanford athlete, doing pretty much the same thing 30 years ago and that didnt hurt him one iota

to you, a wannabe, he made a poor decision, because you'll never see $3 million in your lifetime, but part of the reason Mark is an exceptional athlete is that he has a healthy level of belief in himself. dont assume his motivations are the same as yours


LOL at this. His Leverage is GONE! He just wasted it. The max he could have leveraged his senior season for was $3.8 million (Pirates were willing to pay the luxury tax for going over slot, but obviously not give up a future 1st round draft pick)

Do you even know what leverage means? And if you do know the definition, what is his leverage next season to guarantee a team will offer him more than $3.8 million? How will he not be low-balled? He's significantly more likely to be low-balled NEXT year when he has no other options! He was getting offered the maximum possible the Pirates could pay him.

This isn't very difficult to understand. This decision by Appel clearly wasn't about money, because if it was, he's an absolute ****ing bonehead.

SenorGato
07-15-2012, 04:45 PM
And if he signed, he would probably be starting there post spring-training in 2013, instead of pitching another year at Stanford and after being drafted and signed going to High A.

He can also get his Stanford degree while in the minor leagues, like Allen Craig got his while in the minors for the Cardinals.


And what about the drawbacks?

Likely to be drafted lower next year, won't get as much money, if he gets hurt, then what? Did they get an insurance policy on him getting hurt?

Likely delays his eventual MLB time clock.

I can't see the upside of doing this, unless he is just trying to avoid being a Pirate. Which I don't care who you are, I'd rather play for my least favorite team and be a big leaguer, then to potentially waste that opportunity.

I'm sure he'll be fine, but I don't see how this was a good choice here. The only player that I can think of that turned down his Junior year offer and it worked out for him was Luke Hochevar.

I think this is entirely in question. He probably has an insurance policy being a smart guy, and of course, what if he doesn't get hurt?

Stanek and Whitson are all that's in the way of him being the top pitcher in the draft next year, and he's as talented as either one of those two.

Aaron Crow. Hochevar isn't even good, but Crow came after him and is a good reliever with starter potential down the road.

In fact, if you look at it guys like Appel have been trending up....You start with Harrington, an outright disaster. Hochevar turns into a bad innings eating starter. Crow turns into a good reliever with starter potential. If Appel even turns into a good innings eating starter (a mid-rotation type) that's worth more than the money the Pirates offered this year. His upside is certainly higher than that (IMO he was the only guy in this past draft with real #1 upside) and he's betting on his talent standing out again. I think there's nothing wrong with that, and it's good that someone is taking this approach with the new CBA so early. Certainly fellow draft prospects should be hoping this ends well for him, that way they know their options aren't as limited as it seems.

I just think the Stanford kid raised by two very bright people and represented by the best agent in sports has more of a clue of what he's doing here than anyone seems willing to give him credit for. It's still entirely possible he emerges a better prospect after the 2013 college season, just as it's entirely possible it's an outright disaster for him. It's not like 22 is old to enter pro ball...especially since a highly trained college pitcher like himself could be up in a year and a half/two years.

I'm totally for him adding to the pool of talent for the Cubs to make the first pick with next year.

1908_Cubs
07-15-2012, 05:10 PM
If location is that important to him, and he's worried about comfort, than he likely doesn't have the mental makeup to make it as a major leaguer anyway and the Pirates dodged a bullet. What's he going to do if he is in AAA and gets traded? Take his ball and go home?

All of these questions are enough for alot of GM's to say screw em. I would take odds on him falling out of of the Top 10 next year. Take a high upside HS Senior or a 22-23 year old with no pro experience and questionable desire and mental toughness?

Zack Greinke worries about location. He seems to do....just fine.

It's not mental make up. I think he's being choosey right now. If you already have money, you might as well be choosey. It's his right.

Jeffy25
07-15-2012, 05:21 PM
jeffy if you stop making stupid baseless assertions that are totally without merit then i dont have to point them out to you
So what was my stupid baseless assertion again?


you do it repeatedly, Gerrit Cole was drafted by the Yankees and he went back to school, you could have said he wouldnt make as much as the 4M the yankees offered him, but he did.
That is a 100% completely different situation. Cole was a High School Senior heading to UCLA, he wasn't coming back to the draft for a min of 2 more years, and he had plenty of leverage to look forward to.


Danny Goodwin was drafted 1st in the entire country in 1971 and he chose not to sign, you could have said he never would be selected 1st overall again and he'd lose all leverage then too, but in 1975 there was Danny Goodwin being selected 1st overall again.
Again, completely different situation, you do realize that the draft is insanely different today than it was in 1971, right?


so youre wrong it does happen, it may not be likely but it can and does happen, these are athletes with supreme belief in their skills, not someone like you who only wishes he could be one of them.
This ****, stop with these stupid, petty insults that do nothing but make you look worse.


There's a reason they are this good of an athlete, and until you accept that, that this innate belief in their own ability exists you'll keep making dumb ill advised assertions They make decisions based on their reality, not yours. its part of why they are great athletes in the first place
So all you have to do is be a great athlete and that means you know the right decision to make for your future?

Is that not why we have agents? Is that what Matt Harrington did?



you just dont like that I keep pointing out your errors to you, just like you said the Burnett deal was terrible for the pirates and that park effects were overstated, yet Burnett at home is 6- 0 2.10 era, and 4-3 6.50 ERA on the road.

You do realize that since you made that gloating thread, A.J. Burnett has a 5.50 ERA, right?

You aren't pointing out errors, you are being obnoxious and rude. You aren't trying to discuss. You can't respond or make a response without having an insult at the beginning or end of your post.


the point is you make it so easy because you say things without even considering if they are factually correct
Like when you said you were an actuarial for the IRS yet can't give us 5th grade grammar on a public sports forum?

Or like when you continued to berate a topic about a book you had not even heard of.

Or how you kept making up arguments without them being true, and then I linked back and shared them back with you and you just kept ignoring them?




You stop posting idiotic things that even a 4th grader knows are false and you wont get called on them

I really think you should pause and look at your posts, and then take a look in a mirror.

Would you like to show me what was idiotic that I posted in this thread?

WrightStuff82
07-15-2012, 05:27 PM
mikepelfrey,

You couldn't be more wrong on this topic. Again, answer the leverage question and how you figure he won't get lowballed next year.

Jeffy25
07-15-2012, 05:33 PM
mikepelfrey,

You couldn't be more wrong on this topic. Again, answer the leverage question and how you figure he won't get lowballed next year.

I can't find a single example of a college senior that signed for at, or above slot in this years draft.

That means, in order for Appel to get 3.8 million, he will have to be drafted in the top 4 next year, and that is assuming he is even offered slot.

WrightStuff82
07-15-2012, 05:36 PM
Yep, all the college seniors got lowballed, just like Appel will next year.

A team that drafts him Top 4 will not offer him slot. They can aggressively use their allotment to sign HS kids in rounds 2 through 10 and buy them up before they even start talking to Appel. If Appel is lucky they will have a couple million left over for him.

He either:

A) Doesn't care about money AT ALL.
B) Was doped into a court challenge by Boras.
C) Complete and total idiot.

He's a Stanford kid so I'm assuming some brains. But the only logical answer is A. Because there's no way on earth he's getting more than $3.8m next year.

This was not a smart move if he is looking for every dollar. It's the exact opposite of smart.

WrightStuff82
07-15-2012, 05:41 PM
If Senor Gato thinks Appel is getting more money next year, he is as wrong as you are. With the new rules the teams hold massive leverage. Even a talented college senior doesn't stand a prayer.

SenorGato
07-15-2012, 05:47 PM
mikepelfrey,

You couldn't be more wrong on this topic. Again, answer the leverage question and how you figure he won't get lowballed next year.

That's really simple. If he pitches to his talent, a guy who consistently throws strikes in the mid-high 90's with a wipeout breaking pitch, then he goes #1, at worst top 3. He would then rather easily get more than 4 million.

WrightStuff82
07-15-2012, 05:48 PM
We arent saying he is, we are just saying that he has just as much opportunity to get more as he does to get less.




But that is not true either. He has NO opportunity to get more. This is what you're failing to understan.

WrightStuff82
07-15-2012, 05:49 PM
It doesn't matter if he pitches to his talent or not. He's getting lowballed next year. There is no other way around that.

Jeffy25
07-15-2012, 05:50 PM
i dont have to, I and many others laugh at your posts because you put yourself in this position
Who else exactly?



id you not say

"Likely to be drafted lower next year, won't get as much money, if he gets hurt, then what? Did they get an insurance policy on him getting hurt?"

Danny Goodwin was the 1st overall pick in 1971, he was #1 1975 as well

so it happens
40 years ago obviously isn't the same. The draft is completely different, and this isn't a high school senior we are talking about.


like i said and you conveniently glossed over it
I specifically responded to each and every point you made, including that one. You don't do that with me, you just quote the whole post and a few new arguments.


you just dont like that I keep pointing out your errors to you, just like you said "the Burnett deal was terrible for the pirates and that park effects were overstated", yet Burnett at home is 6- 0 2.10 era, and 4-3 6.50 ERA on the road.
Burnett has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. So what is your point in bringing it up?

And again, that entire thread was out of context. You brought it up after 60 innings, and it's still a tiny sample size, and he has a 5.50 ERA since you made that thread.

But thanks for consistently bringing up a retired argument. Your debate skills are very impressive.


those were your words were they not?

Senor Gato grasped exactly what I was saying, he even restated it very eloquently for which he deserves credit, but have you admitted that?
Tell me, how will Appel get more than 3.8 million in next years draft? It's possible he doesn't care about money. But he is losing money by leaving that offer on the table.


no you havent which is why you feel this is personal, because you cant admit you might be wrong

Have no issue admitting when I am wrong, but you berate and attack, and insult, and can't stay on topic, and don't discuss the topic. You just like to fight and attack.

I'd rather never respond to you, but when you call me out directly, use my name in threads where I haven't even spoken, it's hard to just ignore a petty troll and let you make **** up about me.


Now, can you try and stay on topic?

This was a mistake of Appel to pass up the 3.8 million dollar offer at this age because he is very unlikely to get a deal similar to this next year or to surpass it. Mainly because he loses all of his leverage. He had to really care about graduating from Stanford, even though it's something he could have done in the minor leagues and had the Pirates pay for it if his career didn't work out (it's included in all signing bonuses where the player wants his degree).

If his goal was to get more money, then he made a mistake. The best way to get paid is to sign and get to the big leagues and start that service clock.

If he had other goals, I'm sure he could have signed and had things work out in his favor. If he just didn't want to be a Pirate. Then I think he probably has other issues and doesn't really want to be a big leaguer very badly.

We don't know his motivation, he didn't publicly state why he turned down the offer. But we do know he is very unlikely to top 3.8 million in next years draft.

SenorGato
07-15-2012, 05:50 PM
If Senor Gato thinks Appel is getting more money next year, he is as wrong as you are. With the new rules the teams hold massive leverage. Even a talented college senior doesn't stand a prayer.

If teams held the leverage you think they do then Appel would have signed.

Jeffy25
07-15-2012, 05:51 PM
That's really simple. If he pitches to his talent, a guy who consistently throws strikes in the mid-high 90's with a wipeout breaking pitch, then he goes #1, at worst top 3. He would then rather easily get more than 4 million.

How? He has no leverage.

The first overall pick this year got 4 million and he had a commitment to go to college and had leverage.

Appel has no leverage next year.

It's either independent ball or he signs.

No way he signs for, or above slot next year.

WrightStuff82
07-15-2012, 05:53 PM
I gave you the possible reasons why he didn't sign.

A) He doesn't care about money. Which is fine. He's allowed to feel that way. He comes from a wealthy family. It's certaintly possible he prefers comfort to every available dollar.
B) Boras is using him as a tool to push a legal challenge to the system. Boras is filthy rich, maybe he cut a secret side deal with him to do this. "Get this overturned with me Mark and I'll line your pockets. $3.8m is chump change vs what I can give you".
C) He's a complete and total moron.

I doubt it's C, because $3.8m was the most he was ever capable of getting paid once he fell to the Pirates and he doesn't have stupid representation.

Jeffy25
07-15-2012, 05:57 PM
If teams held the leverage you think they do then Appel would have signed.

It isn't about the teams leverage.

In negotiations next year. Appel can either go to independent ball, or sign with whoever drafts him.

This year, he could go back to Stanford, thus his leverage in negotiations and why he was offered well above slot and every dollar the Pirates could offer him without losing a draft pick.

He will have to be a top 3 pick next year to get what he was offered this year, and that is assuming he is even offered anything close to slot.

If he goes 1 or 2 next year, then he will probably top the 3.8 million, but it doesn't mean a team will even take him there. He will have to remain healthy and continue to develop for this entire year to make it worth it, and he has the same coaching he has had all 3 years. So it's not like he is going to learn something new. He will have to improve, even in a weaker draft class in order to top the financial offer he was given this year. Chances are, he won't top 3.8 million, because I highly doubt he goes 1 or 2 in next years draft. If he does, then great, the big risk he took paid off for the few million he improved his deal to get. If he is drafted earlier in the draft, it's because teams know they can sign him for well below slot. This is assuming he is still a first round draft talent next year, which isn't guaranteed.

Jeffy25
07-15-2012, 05:59 PM
if he pitches up to his ability, he gets picked 1st, do you think that a team wont pay him more than 3.8 if hes picked 1st?

honestly??????????????like a team wont feel pressure from their fans if they dont sign him

contracts are how great athletes keep score



This years first overall pick got 4 million and he had more leverage than Appel will next year.


If they don't sign him, he goes to independent ball, and the team with the first overall pick (let's say the Twins) will get a supplemental pick the following year.

WrightStuff82
07-15-2012, 05:59 PM
if he pitches up to his ability, he gets picked 1st, do you think that a team wont pay him more than 3.8 if hes picked 1st?

honestly??????????????like a team wont feel pressure from their fans if they dont sign him

contracts are how great athletes keep score


Yes, honestly. They won't. They will spend their allotment on aggressive picks in rounds 2-10, and how much money is left for Appel after going overslot on those 9 picks? 3 million? "Sorry Mark, this is all we got left per MLB rules." Now what?

Appel's leverage is now Indy ball. Far less leverage than his senior season at Stanford. Why pay him $6 million when $2-$3 million will be more than enough? It's why guys sign after their Junior seasons. There is always significantly less money there when you are a senior.

WrightStuff82
07-15-2012, 06:08 PM
Yes... and it's not very hard to sell to someone logical. Maybe he wants to turn down $3 million again and join Matt Harrington at Sam's Club Tire Department.

There won't be $7m available after Minnesota goes overslot on all their other picks.

If Appel turns it down? Oh well, you missed out on a 23 year old with no pro experience, you get a #1 pick overall 2014 in a deeper class.

Jeffy25
07-15-2012, 06:13 PM
for arguments sake lets say Appel goes 16-0 with an 0.79 era and k's 200 in 129 innings next season, youre saying that the Twins with the #1 pick will offer less than 3.8M with a 7M slot available?

and you think the Twins GM wont answer to his owner or twins fans?

are you really trying to sell that?

Your asking Appel to pitch better than any college pitcher ever.

He was no where close to that this year.

10-2, 2.56 ERA, 3.28 FIP

130 K/123 IP

You are demanding a massive upgrade in his pitching numbers. If anyone ever pitches that well in their senior college year, I would assume he could get close to slot at least.

What you are asking for is Appel to become a ton better than he currently is. That argument doesn't fit.

We could say that maybe he will go 11-1, 2.30 ERA, 3.00 FIP, 150 K/130 IP. That would be improving upon his Junior Year. And no, I don't think he would get anywhere close to slot, and he probably wouldn't be the first overall pick being 22, when there are two other pitchers close to his caliber that are a year younger.

And right now there are three position player high schoolers that could easily go number 1 if they do well next year.

Karsten Whitson is arguably better than Appel. And then you have Whal, Plutko, and Eades who could all be better than Appel by next year.

And this isn't even including all of the high school kids, which there are lot for a draft class next year.

Mercado, Meadows, Hollon, Rivera etc all could go number one if they have good years.

If the Twins did take Appel next year 1 overall (we are still assuming the Twins will pick first) they will likely give Appel 4 million, and save the 3 million on high end high school kids rounds 2-10. There is no reason to go anywhere close to slot with Appel, when you would get a supplemental pick the following year. You would only take him because you can low-ball him from slot and get high end everywhere else in the draft. Much like why the Astros took Correa this year. They knew he wouldn't be anywhere close to slot, so why not take him and then get McCullers and other first round talent later in the draft when there isn't a Byrce Harper like talent out there? It was a good draft for the Astros. And Appel won't get slot or anywhere close to it next year. He would have to be a far and away best talent available to get it.

WrightStuff82
07-15-2012, 06:19 PM
Why pay him $7m and be forced to take low-ceiling college guys in rounds 2 thru 10, when you can pay him $3m and get lots of high-upside HS kids. It doesn't make any sense. Appel's options are now extremely limited. A team will take advantage of that.

WrightStuff82
07-15-2012, 06:22 PM
I don't think Appel is stupid. I just think he either A) doesn't care about how much money he makes or B) Boras bought him to ride shotgun in a court challenge to the new system.

If he cares about how much money he makes, and thinks he'll get more in the draft next year, then yea.. he's an idiot.

WrightStuff82
07-15-2012, 06:24 PM
If Appel thinks he can do that, then yea, he's a ****ing idiot. I don't think he believes he can do that. It's either one of the two options I already presented.

WrightStuff82
07-15-2012, 06:25 PM
by asking him to sign for less than the Astro's offered youre asking him to back down on his own belief in himself

You're still not understanding leverage at all.

DR. Pepper
07-15-2012, 06:38 PM
i hope he signs.. the future would shine bright in pittsburgh with a frontline of Taillon, Cole, Appel, McDonald

astrosmaniac
07-15-2012, 07:22 PM
This years first overall pick got 4 million and he had more leverage than Appel will next year.


If they don't sign him, he goes to independent ball, and the team with the first overall pick (let's say the Twins) will get a supplemental pick the following year.

If the astros end up with the #1 overall pick, I'd have no qualms with them taking him with the intention of saying "we'll give you $3.5 million" so they can use the rest to go over slot to steal the top high school talent later on. If he says no, then you get a compensatory pick high in what should be a stronger draft class

SenorGato
07-15-2012, 08:27 PM
How? He has no leverage.

The first overall pick this year got 4 million and he had a commitment to go to college and had leverage.

Appel has no leverage next year.

It's either independent ball or he signs.

No way he signs for, or above slot next year.

You just provided a source of leverage.

The first overall pick took 4.8 million, which is closer to 5 million, and was almost totally picked on his price tag. He's actually one of the lesser first overall picks in years considering the three before him were Cole, Harper, Strasburg.

I just don't think repeating "no leverage" over and over is enough reason to say he just ruined his baseball career. Not with that kind of arm on a kid who, by all accounts, is smart in his own right and surrounded by some very, very smart people. I have an extremely tough time buying that Appel gets less money than 3.8 million next year unless an injury hits out of nowhere. Hell, I have a hard time believing he's not a top 5 prospect in that draft right now, with a very legitimate case as the #1 talent. There really isn't much in this guy's way of being the top arm in 2013.

It's really not as dramatic as you guys want to make it seem. Everyone and their mother knew the guy was a tough sign, which is the only reason he didn't go first in this draft.

Jeffy25
07-15-2012, 09:56 PM
You just provided a source of leverage.

The first overall pick took 4.8 million, which is closer to 5 million, and was almost totally picked on his price tag. He's actually one of the lesser first overall picks in years considering the three before him were Cole, Harper, Strasburg.

I just don't think repeating "no leverage" over and over is enough reason to say he just ruined his baseball career. Not with that kind of arm on a kid who, by all accounts, is smart in his own right and surrounded by some very, very smart people. I have an extremely tough time buying that Appel gets less money than 3.8 million next year unless an injury hits out of nowhere. Hell, I have a hard time believing he's not a top 5 prospect in that draft right now, with a very legitimate case as the #1 talent. There really isn't much in this guy's way of being the top arm in 2013.

Who said he ruined his baseball career? :shrug:

It's just very very unlikely that he gets 3.8 million next year for a signing bonus. And it's mainly because he will have......that lack of leverage.


Also, no one in this draft was as good as the last three first overall picks. In fact, not really even close.

Strasburg was one of the best amateur pitchers we have seen in a long time.

Harper compares to Griffey, Upton, and A-Rod

And Cole is a solid pitcher, and a solid first overall pick.

No one in this draft is anywhere close to any of those three, maybe Cole somewhat.

Jeffy25
07-15-2012, 09:56 PM
If the astros end up with the #1 overall pick, I'd have no qualms with them taking him with the intention of saying "we'll give you $3.5 million" so they can use the rest to go over slot to steal the top high school talent later on. If he says no, then you get a compensatory pick high in what should be a stronger draft class

Absolutely. It wouldn't be a horrible first overall pick.

But for Appel, he isn't likely to get his 3.8 million back.

SenorGato
07-15-2012, 10:19 PM
Who said he ruined his baseball career? :shrug:

It's just very very unlikely that he gets 3.8 million next year for a signing bonus. And it's mainly because he will have......that lack of leverage.

Except it's seriously not unlikely.

The closest to those three in this draft would have been Appel, which is why he's going back for attempt #2.

I'll say it again, if teams had *all* the leverage in this then he would have signed. No CBA would allow such little room to negotiate for the players, and Boras/Appel are simply challenging the theory that this one does. He's the draft eligible guy in college baseball right now who has the kind of ability that allows his challenge to be successful. I don't think it's anymore complicated than that. The Pirates, like every other team, knew his demands.

Correa was a signability pick. He doesn't have the assets of Appel, his family, his school, or his agent to max his development before entering pro ball, and therefore didn't have Appel's kind of leverage to ask for more money. He goes anywhere else and he probably doesn't get 4.8 million. He was happy to take it. It's two completely different worlds.

Again, if Appel even hits a mid-tier projection for him and becomes a 3-4 starter who throws alot of innings, that's worth 7 million. Perhaps he's read the many studies out there on how draft talent is the best investment out there for teams...perhaps he and his agent see a way to work that under the new CBA. Under the old CBA he would simply have fallen to the team willing to pay his demands, this is just a different way of doing it. All he has to do is stay healthy and continue honing his skills and he's a very legit #1 overall option in 2013.

1903
07-15-2012, 11:19 PM
I love how a few votes in the poll for "no" have come in after Appel decided not to sign. You guys must be really smart.

JNev
07-16-2012, 05:26 AM
You just provided a source of leverage.

The first overall pick took 4.8 million, which is closer to 5 million, and was almost totally picked on his price tag. He's actually one of the lesser first overall picks in years considering the three before him were Cole, Harper, Strasburg.

I just don't think repeating "no leverage" over and over is enough reason to say he just ruined his baseball career. Not with that kind of arm on a kid who, by all accounts, is smart in his own right and surrounded by some very, very smart people. I have an extremely tough time buying that Appel gets less money than 3.8 million next year unless an injury hits out of nowhere. Hell, I have a hard time believing he's not a top 5 prospect in that draft right now, with a very legitimate case as the #1 talent. There really isn't much in this guy's way of being the top arm in 2013.

It's really not as dramatic as you guys want to make it seem. Everyone and their mother knew the guy was a tough sign, which is the only reason he didn't go first in this draft.

I think a lot of people were thinking the exact same thing 1 year ago and right before the draft and we saw how that worked out

1908_Cubs
07-16-2012, 08:12 AM
I think a lot of people were thinking the exact same thing 1 year ago and right before the draft and we saw how that worked out

The only reason he slid was price. The Astros were prepared to take him first when he turned down their contract offer. It's an amazing stretch to say he wasn't one of the 3 best players in this draft. So yes, there's probably very little chance that he doesn't go top 5 next season, especially with teams assuming as a senior, he should be an easy sign. And he does have a very legitimate case of being the best player in next year's draft.

1908_Cubs
07-16-2012, 08:15 AM
Absolutely. It wouldn't be a horrible first overall pick.

But for Appel, he isn't likely to get his 3.8 million back.

And again, I don't think he cares.

Rotation
07-21-2012, 10:32 PM
I hope this money hungry greedy bastard tears his an arm ligament and will never be able to pitch again.

The guy was blessed with the ability to pitch and attend one of the top universities in the world.

He grew up a die hard Astro's fan and was slotted to go at number 1 to his hometown team. How many fukken kids have the opportunity to do that?

Nope, dumbass wanted a couple more million in his pocket and the Stro's said **** him.

Wanted above slot #1 money for whatever slot he got picked at.

He's going back to Stanford because he didn't get enough money.

Hope this fk never pitches in a major league game.

mark1125
07-21-2012, 10:45 PM
Damn that greedy bastard. He is going back to college to playball instead of taking millions from the black hole that is houston. So greedy. :facepalm:

jtrinaldi
07-21-2012, 10:51 PM
I hope you get fired from McDonalds.....

jmoney85
07-21-2012, 10:52 PM
gerrit cole grew up a yankee fan, got drafted by the yankees and didnt sign because of money.... if it can happen to the yankees it can happen to everybody

1908_Cubs
07-21-2012, 10:55 PM
Yeah man! What a jerk. Doing that thing he's allowed to do by not signing a contract.

Here's the thing: the next time you apply for a job, and then you go through the interview process and realize it's not for you / not going to get paid as much as you hoped....you accept it to. Despite the fact you have a right to pass on it. Because if you didn't, you'd be a money hungry greedy bastard, too.

Rotation
07-21-2012, 11:35 PM
Apples and Oranges brother, apples and oranges.

1908_Cubs
07-21-2012, 11:40 PM
Apples and Oranges brother, apples and oranges.
How? Does Mark Appel not have the right to turn down a contract offer because he deems, either the money or the location to not be preferable to him? Especially considering that he has the means to do so, considering he comes from money?

Instead of saying "apples to oranges" and acting like that means something here, please, explain to me, why is he a "money grubbing bastard" and not just someone who is using his right to attend college for one more season because he has the ability to do so?

Maybe, just maybe, he didn't want to play in Houston and he didn't want to play in Pittsbugh. And unlike many, has the financial means to turn down such an opportunity.

Stop whining.

1903
07-21-2012, 11:44 PM
This is a clown thread bro.

Sweet_Caroline
07-21-2012, 11:45 PM
This is a clown thread bro.

This

Giannis94
07-21-2012, 11:50 PM
a thread like this needs 1 word:
Gigity. nuff said ****ers

NYM-RMCF-DM
07-21-2012, 11:55 PM
No need to wish anyone bad. Not the first player that decides he won't sign..wont't be the last either. If he didn't want to play for either team, then in reality that(those) team(s) is/are better off without him. No need to wish bad on someone for living their life.

tr3ymill3r
07-22-2012, 12:11 AM
The Astros will pick him next year when he can't leverage school.

WVNowitzki
07-22-2012, 01:22 AM
No need to wish anyone bad. Not the first player that decides he won't sign..wont't be the last either. If he didn't want to play for either team, then in reality that(those) team(s) is/are better off without him. No need to wish bad on someone for living their life.

Dude, your sig brings me such painful memories. God I hate that call and how that was basically the tipping point of our collapse last year.

SenorGato
07-22-2012, 01:29 AM
The guy was blessed with the ability to pitch and attend one of the top universities in the world.

Pretty sure this still stands.

Right now most are still calling him the #1 prospect in the 2013 draft with Stanek as his closest competition. Personally hoping he keeps that, I think he will, and ends up the Cubs' pick at #1.

And yes, this is a clown thread.

misterd
07-22-2012, 01:51 AM
How?

Because if he doesn't want to work at McDonald's he can apply to Wendy's, Taco Bell, or Subway, and when he applies, there won't be a seemingly random draw to determine where in the nation he gets to work. Let's be honest, Rotation has a lot more freedom in his career path than any prospect could hope to have.

Of course, with the new CBA, I have to think that Appel is an idiot if he really was concerned about the money. I doubt anyone is going to go far over slot to sign him next year, or that anyone will take him that high in the draft. Either he really wants to finish school, really doesn't want to go to Houston, or has gotten really bad advice.

Kings Analyst
07-22-2012, 01:56 AM
Graduating from Stanford is such a terrible decision.

Rotation
07-22-2012, 03:00 AM
He can finish his degree at Stanford anytime, he might even have enough credits to graduate now.

He's not going back to Stanford to get a degree, he's going back to Stanford because he didn't get an extra couple million from his pockets.

Astro's wanted Appel, but didn't want to give him above slot #1 money.

Appel STILL wanted above slot #1 money when he was #8.

**** these overpaid nimrods.

SenorGato
07-22-2012, 03:22 AM
I'm really not sure some of you can, will, or want to understand the logic behind his decision in the slightest.

The guy was and is arguably the best draft eligible baseball talent in the country, and at worst he's top 2. He was, and probably still is, the only draft eligible pitcher in the college ranks with true ace upside at the MLB level. If he even meets a 50% or 60% projection you're looking at a guy who can be an average SP who eats plenty of innings. As a college trained pitcher with his kind of pedigree and talent, he's a far better bet to do that than 99.9% of other prospects out there. That is worth 8 million eeeeeaaaaassssy on the open market, and a draft pick with half his brain would try to fight for as much of that as he could get. That's all that happened. It's fairly easy to understand why he fell to the Pirates given teams maybe being a little gun shy in the first year of a new and restrictive CBA. The Pirates took the risk, it missed, and that was that. No one in their right mind thought he'd be an easy sign, and no one in their right mind should have thought that.


**** these overpaid nimrods.

Sure, but why follow sports at all then?

NYM-RMCF-DM
07-22-2012, 04:43 AM
Dude, your sig brings me such painful memories. God I hate that call and how that was basically the tipping point of our collapse last year.

tehehe.. awful call!:(

1908_Cubs
07-22-2012, 09:27 AM
He can finish his degree at Stanford anytime, he might even have enough credits to graduate now.

He's not going back to Stanford to get a degree, he's going back to Stanford because he didn't get an extra couple million from his pockets.

Astro's wanted Appel, but didn't want to give him above slot #1 money.

Appel STILL wanted above slot #1 money when he was #8.

**** these overpaid nimrods.

Again...you realize his family is loaded and a lot of this was probably based on location and NOT money?

JNev
07-22-2012, 09:49 AM
^ <3 your sig

Mell413
07-22-2012, 09:51 AM
I can't really fault Appel for going back to school. I'd rather play for the Cubs than the Pirates

Rotation
07-22-2012, 01:10 PM
Again...you realize his family is loaded and a lot of this was probably based on location and NOT money?

Which explains why he spurned the Astros before the draft saying he wanted more money right? His hometown team and the team he grew up rooting for right?

He wanted more money, Houston said *** him. He fell to #8 and still want #1+ money, money greeding bastard's plan backfired, hope this kid blows out an arm.

gaughan333
07-22-2012, 03:33 PM
I'm sorry, but I wouldn't want to play for the astros either

Jeffy25
07-23-2012, 05:43 AM
Which explains why he spurned the Astros before the draft saying he wanted more money right? His hometown team and the team he grew up rooting for right?

He wanted more money, Houston said *** him. He fell to #8 and still want #1+ money, money greeding bastard's plan backfired, hope this kid blows out an arm.

This is a good response.

It does appear he expected the Astros to go over slot to sign him.

DBR96A
07-23-2012, 06:36 AM
Again...you realize his family is loaded and a lot of this was probably based on location and NOT money?

In other words, he doesn't care that the Pirates are an improving baseball team because the thought of living in Pittsburgh offends his exquisite sensibilities, right? And the sons and daughters of the rich wonder why nobody likes them. :facepalm:

On that note, you know two other athletes who complained about Pittsburgh? Barry Bonds and Plaxico Burress. Nice company for Mark Appel to keep there, because those guys are known for their wonderful personalities. :rolleyes:

Mitchell133
07-23-2012, 06:45 AM
I gotta say, this makes no sense to me.

What a brilliant situation for him to be in, if 1-2 million dollars means that much to him, I don't think the Pirates mind taking a pass.

infernoscurse
07-23-2012, 01:46 PM
it really shocks me that he did this, i never saw this coming, I doubt other teams saw this too, this is really some shocking news

Rotation
07-23-2012, 03:54 PM
I gotta say, this makes no sense to me.

What a brilliant situation for him to be in, if 1-2 million dollars means that much to him, I don't think the Pirates mind taking a pass.

Pirates were not even close to giving in to what Appel wanted.

Astros wanted Appel at number 1, but Appel wanted over slot #1 signing money (~7 million). Astros were not comfortable with that and told him to take a hike.

His planned backfired and he fell all the way to #8. Pirates were willing to go over #8 slot money (~2.9 million); but Appel still wanted over slot #1 money.

Pirates offered something like 500K to 700K over slot, but obviously no where close to what Appel would have gotten at number 1 had he not tried to hold the Astros ransom.

Keep in mind that if you pay over your slot with the new agreement, you have to play luxury taxes for however much you go over AND have less money to spend for the rest of your draft (MLB know allocates how much money you can spend for the whole draft).

**** this kid, he gave up the chance to play for his hometown team, the one he grew up rooting for, for at most, a couple million dollars. With his talent, that couple million dollars doesn't mean j@ck sh1t when he hits free agency.

Dumb Dumb Dumb, not only has his decision backfired, but now he risks going back to Stanford, having a bad season, OR BETTER YET getting injured.

Can't get much higher than #1 draft pick, playing for the hometown team to boot. NOPE, a couple spare millions to this guy who's set for life means that much.

Hope this kid fails.

WSU Tony
07-23-2012, 04:09 PM
It's hard to root for Apple at this point. I mean, look at the luck he has had in his life and he wants MORE MORE MORE. Do you know what most of us would give to have his arm? The chance at playing in the majors?

I'll track him... in vein.