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View Full Version : Looking back: Did the Perkins trade hurt the Celtics badly?



NYSpirit1
06-10-2012, 03:19 AM
I really think it did, the way Ainge conducted business the past two seasons just really didn't make sense.

Although Garnett has played better at the 5, the Celtics should have never traded Perkins as well as dealing Davis for Bass.

If they really wanted to keep that core together, those 6 players were together for 4+ years.

Instead, going into this offseason, it's really hurting them. They could still have a younger core in Perkins, Davis, Bradley and Rondo to go along with Pierce AND have a lot of cap room. Instead, it's really just Rondo and Pierce at this point.

And to a lesser extent, letting go of Tony Allen before last year hurt as well. He's turned out to become an elite defender with the Memphis Grizzlies. For a team searching to get younger, it's kind of ironic they let go of all their important younger players.

EDIT: And I'm not saying Bass is lesser of a player than Glen Davis, I was saying that collectively Tony Allen, Davis and Perkins knew the Celtics culture that Garnett instilled and that culture could last into the next era of the Celtics. Now if Garnett and Allen leave, they will have two players from the 08 title team (Rondo and Pierce), which is virtually nothing to continue that culture into the next decade.

Slug3
06-10-2012, 03:22 AM
Last year they were banking on Shaq being healthy for the playoffs. Didnt happen and it hurt them in size in the middle. They would be better with Perk in my opinion.

Raps18-19 Champ
06-10-2012, 03:24 AM
I think they did. Though I think Green would have been a good offensive weapon if he played this year.

Chronz
06-10-2012, 03:43 AM
Keep Glen Davis WTF?

Bass is much better than him, that was a genius trade.

As for the thread title, well obviously its better to have Perk than not have Jeff Green but they would have suffered for it in Free Agency this coming off-season.

Lakeshow24KB
06-10-2012, 03:50 AM
The Bass trade was terrific for Boston. The Perkins, well, obviously not too well

RaiderKid318
06-10-2012, 03:59 AM
i want their center stemsma or however you say it. That dude sends anyones **** in the paint and I am excited to see what he does in the future.

Wade n Fade
06-10-2012, 04:07 AM
It did for sure because we lost to Boston everytime last season when they had Perkins. Perkins had a strong intense persona, and they lost it when he was dealt. Ainge made a bad move, but still, he is a great executive, and that's coming from a Heat fan. He produced a great combo of players that could compete for a good deal of time.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
06-10-2012, 04:28 AM
lmao Davis is trash

HouRealCoach
06-10-2012, 09:36 AM
Yeah it did hurt but Green was a player that they wanted to keep for the future... I hate that he had his health problems

X12Celtics3
06-10-2012, 09:48 AM
I really think it did, the way Ainge conducted business the past two seasons just really didn't make sense.

Although Garnett has played better at the 5, the Celtics should have never traded Perkins as well as dealing Davis for Bass.

If they really wanted to keep that core together, those 6 players were together for 4+ years.

Instead, going into this offseason, it's really hurting them. They could still have a younger core in Perkins, Davis, Bradley and Rondo to go along with Pierce AND have a lot of cap room. Instead, it's really just Rondo and Pierce at this point.

And to a lesser extent, letting go of Tony Allen before last year hurt as well. He's turned out to become an elite defender with the Memphis Grizzlies. For a team searching to get younger, it's kind of ironic they let go of all their important younger players.

That trade was great... Davis was an inconsistent meathead who was sometimes kind of fun but was definitely not as good a player as Bass. I was amazed that we got such a good player in return for Davis, who I would have been happy losing in free agency.

celtNYpatsHeels
06-10-2012, 01:16 PM
Yea that Bass trade was an absolute STEAL for boston.

If Green were 100% healthy this year then the Perkins trade definitely would not have hurt this team. Hard to judge because Green was hurt so he wasnt available this season. Cant forget the fact that the Celtics also got the #22 pick in this years draft in the trade too.

And yes, letting go of TA did hurt the C's and Danny prob should have re-upped him.

xnick5757
06-10-2012, 01:19 PM
perkins is trash, stiemsma is on the same level as him defensively

YoungOne
06-10-2012, 01:29 PM
both good deals, nobody could have foreseen the heart-problems jeff green had.

celtNYpatsHeels
06-10-2012, 01:29 PM
perkins is trash, stiemsma is on the same level as him defensively

There is no way the steemer could man up Howard and Bynum one on one and shut them down.... sorry lol

king4day
06-10-2012, 01:46 PM
We'll never know. I think not having Green this year hurt the C's. The bench could have been deeper.

blastmasta26
06-10-2012, 01:52 PM
The trade hurt them but only in hindsight. Meaning the Celtics would make that trade every time if Jeff Green was healthy.

It's pretty unfortunate for Boston that injuries have hampered their playoff runs every year since the 08 title. The KG injury was huge, and he didn't return to form until really this year, and of course the Perkins injury in the Celtics-Lakers rematch. And this year, Bradley, O'Neal, Wilcox, and Green were out due to injury in this Heat series.

rocket
06-10-2012, 01:53 PM
Of course it did.

rollins94
06-10-2012, 02:02 PM
I really think it did, the way Ainge conducted business the past two seasons just really didn't make sense.

Although Garnett has played better at the 5, the Celtics should have never traded Perkins as well as dealing Davis for Bass.

If they really wanted to keep that core together, those 6 players were together for 4+ years.

Instead, going into this offseason, it's really hurting them. They could still have a younger core in Perkins, Davis, Bradley and Rondo to go along with Pierce AND have a lot of cap room. Instead, it's really just Rondo and Pierce at this point.

And to a lesser extent, letting go of Tony Allen before last year hurt as well. He's turned out to become an elite defender with the Memphis Grizzlies. For a team searching to get younger, it's kind of ironic they let go of all their important younger players.

Spoken like someone who obviously doesnt watch to many celtics games.... Perkins has been one of the worst +/- players in the league on a great team, and while green wasnt an ideal fit, you could certainly argue that having him in this heat series as a good perimeter defender ideal to guard lebron (as a big, quick 3/4) would have changed the course of the series. Bass is a huge upgrade over davis and was one of their best players game 7, 'nuff said. And while letting Allen go hurt initially, Avery Bradley has emerged as a younger, cheaper, higher ceiling elite wing defender to fill that void. Having Bradley and Green off the bench to guard wade and lebron changes the course of that series dramatically IMO.

While the celtics didnt get a lot back, Perkins has underperformed in OKC and without some bad luck with fluke injuries the celtics very well could be preparing for OKC this week. The trade gives them a much deeper, younger and more cap flexible team team going forward. Thanks for playing

surf and turf
06-10-2012, 02:03 PM
At first I hated this trade. But if you watch all four losses to Miami Boston had trouble scoring for long stretches. Give the Heat credit on Defense but I think Green makes a heck of a diffrence in this series. He certainly would have helped in transition offense transition defense and some rebounding. Got to give Rivers a ton of Credit. Probably the best job of coaching a team through adveristy that I ever saw.

5ass
06-10-2012, 02:07 PM
Some1 explain how the bass for baby trade was a steal for the celtics since every1 seems to believe that. Davis in the 2nd part of the season towards the play offs was a better player than bass will ever be. I know davis sucked the first half of the season but he was going through a lot trying to deal with the death of 2 of his family members. I love that we did that trade as a magic fan.

topdog
06-10-2012, 02:08 PM
I really think it did, the way Ainge conducted business the past two seasons just really didn't make sense.

Although Garnett has played better at the 5, the Celtics should have never traded Perkins as well as dealing Davis for Bass.

And to a lesser extent, letting go of Tony Allen before last year hurt as well. He's turned out to become an elite defender with the Memphis Grizzlies. For a team searching to get younger, it's kind of ironic they let go of all their important younger players.

Perkins would have really helped simply because he was a capable big body. The Celtics had just about nobody left and that hurts. They likely will have Green next year, but I have never been a big fan.

If you don't think snagging Bass for Big Baby was a heist, I think your crazy. While you may argue they have similar abilities (Bass IMO is superior all-around), Bass doesn't get blocked as much and has far better/more stable character.

I think losing Tony Allen really did hurt with the defense and athleticism he brings to the court as well as an improved offensive game, but you have to remember he and Perkins were looking for raises and you've already got 3 superstars eating up your cap.

As for young players, I really haven't been that impressed with anyone outside of Rondo and now Bradley. I'm sure Pierce will be on the block and the Celtics will inquire about sign-and-trades for young pieces.

Corey
06-10-2012, 02:16 PM
No one could have predicted Green having heart surgery and Kristic leaving for Europe.

It was a good trade value wise at the time.

They had absolutely no intention to extend perk for the money he wanted.

justinnum1
06-10-2012, 02:19 PM
No one could have predicted Green having heart surgery and Kristic leaving for Europe.

It was a good trade value wise at the time.

They had absolutely no intention to extend perk for the money he wanted.

how much did he want? and would they have extended him for the deal he got with okc?

sep11ie
06-10-2012, 02:20 PM
Yea, they shoulda traded the entire roster for 1 player.

papipapsmanny
06-10-2012, 02:21 PM
both were good deals, you can't go back and look at it after jeff green's issues

honestly what we saw this season if jermaine oneal, bradley, and Green were healthy i think they are in the finals

topdog
06-10-2012, 02:25 PM
Some1 explain how the bass for baby trade was a steal for the celtics since every1 seems to believe that. Davis in the 2nd part of the season towards the play offs was a better player than bass will ever be. I know davis sucked the first half of the season but he was going through a lot trying to deal with the death of 2 of his family members. I love that we did that trade as a magic fan.

For one thing, check percentages i.e. Bass is a career 49% shooter compared to Davis' 44% (they both average the same # of rebounds and only 0.2 more offensive for Davis) and Bass' free throw percent of 82% compared to Davis' 70%.

Beyond that, you're talking about consistency and being a team player which both favor Bass.

NYSpirit1
06-10-2012, 02:54 PM
I wasn't saying Bass is lesser of a player than Glen Davis, I was saying that collectively Allen, Davis and Perkins knew the Celtics culture that Garnett instilled and that culture could last into the next era of the Celtics.

gilly
06-10-2012, 03:37 PM
Had they had Bradley, Green, Krstic, O'Neal all healthy to add to the very short rotation vs. Miami (Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Garnett, Bass, Dooling, Stiemsma, Pietrus) they'd be heading to Oklahoma City right now. Bradley alone would have been nice, he did wonders against Wade earlier in the season. Add a few big bodies not named Ryan Hollins, would have eased the pressure on KG when he got a few fouls. Green would be a completely different quantity to what they have, a good offensive player.

justinnum1
06-10-2012, 04:03 PM
Had they had Bradley, Green, Krstic, O'Neal all healthy to add to the very short rotation vs. Miami (Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Garnett, Bass, Dooling, Stiemsma, Pietrus) they'd be heading to Oklahoma City right now. Bradley alone would have been nice, he did wonders against Wade earlier in the season. Add a few big bodies not named Ryan Hollins, would have eased the pressure on KG when he got a few fouls. Green would be a completely different quantity to what they have, a good offensive player.

Cant see how wade could have been any worse this series, even with bradley.

IF bosh teams were fully healthy, miami would have win in 6 imo

Corey
06-10-2012, 04:07 PM
how much did he want? and would they have extended him for the deal he got with okc?

No, that's the point. They didnt think he was worth what he got.

They offered him 4x22 and he turned it down. They didn't think he was worth more...A decision I completely agree with.

Yunqn
06-10-2012, 04:17 PM
If kaman had been bought out and signed with the celtics or spurs .. the playoffs would be different right now..just my opinion..

Dito for the health of rose..

It would have been really exciting

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-10-2012, 04:25 PM
No, that's the point. They didnt think he was worth what he got.

They offered him 4x22 and he turned it down. They didn't think he was worth more...A decision I completely agree with.

Yeah people forget about that as well. Perk's best days were in Boston, Green is the best player in that trade. Also people forget the fact that Perkins was absolutely raped by Dirk in the WCF last season.

justinnum1
06-10-2012, 04:34 PM
Yeah people forget about that as well. Perk's best days were in Boston, Green is the best player in that trade. Also people forget the fact that Perkins was absolutely raped by Dirk in the WCF last season.

He was injured and overweight, this years perkins is def worth what he is getting paid imo

Teeboy1487
06-10-2012, 04:47 PM
I agree that trading Perkins and letting Tony Allen walk were horrible decisions. However, Bass and Davis was a good trade though

greg_ory_2005
06-10-2012, 04:50 PM
Green is a better player than Perk. It's too bad about the heart thing. The Celts could have really used a player like him in their series.

Corey
06-10-2012, 04:50 PM
I agree that trading Perkins and letting Tony Allen walk were horrible decisions. However, Bass and Davis was a good trade thoughThey didn't "let" Tony Allen walk. He wanted to be a starter, and he wasn't going to do that with Ray here.

SteBO
06-10-2012, 05:18 PM
Perkins at the time thought he was worth double-figure money per year if my memory serves me correctly. He was going to become a free agent the following year so they traded him to get something in return for him as opposed to just letting walk for nothing. Ainge had great foresight there.......

Chronz
06-10-2012, 06:08 PM
Some1 explain how the bass for baby trade was a steal for the celtics since every1 seems to believe that. Davis in the 2nd part of the season towards the play offs was a better player than bass will ever be. I know davis sucked the first half of the season but he was going through a lot trying to deal with the death of 2 of his family members. I love that we did that trade as a magic fan.
What was his excuse the last 4 years? Davis has never and will never be as efficient as Bass. Both have the same role offensively, Bass is just better at it. Davis is just a chucker



I wasn't saying Bass is lesser of a player than Glen Davis, I was saying that collectively Allen, Davis and Perkins knew the Celtics culture that Garnett instilled and that culture could last into the next era of the Celtics.


Sounds like BS to me

JC_
06-10-2012, 07:49 PM
Personally, I thought it was an unfortunate move to trade Perkins but I understood why it was done. With him on the Celtics I saw them as a championship caliber team and without him they just don't have that intimidating presence. Perkins was perfect for that team in the sense that he added to their "tough" demeanor and I guarantee Lebron and Wade would have thought twice about about driving against them if he was on the court.

xabial
06-10-2012, 07:51 PM
Davis is considered the better Defensive Player. (Defense is His Trademark, but he has some offensive Game..)

Bass is considered the better Offensive Player. (Much More efficient, Higher Ft%, Higher Fg%..)

Case Closed

LongWayFromHome
06-10-2012, 11:06 PM
Even if they hadn't traded Perk he wouldn't be there this year. They didn't want to pay him. If Green never plays another game with them they still got a pick in a really deep draft in exchange for him.

blastmasta26
06-10-2012, 11:25 PM
I agree that trading Perkins and letting Tony Allen walk were horrible decisions. However, Bass and Davis was a good trade though
Avery Bradley replaces Tony Allen, and the Perkins move isn't horrible if Green doesn't have the unforeseen heart problems.

corky831
06-11-2012, 09:55 AM
It only looks bad because of Green's unfortunate health issue. Perkins was good up to 2009 but has been trash since then. He mostly is a non factor for OKC. He doesn't play D like he used to (I believe he was a product of KG's awesome defense tbh) and he has no offensive moves in the post.

waveycrockett
06-11-2012, 09:59 AM
Yeah Bass is much better than Davis I dont know what your talking about.

ccg34
06-11-2012, 10:07 AM
:pray: Ray Allen to the Knicks baby.

TheNumber37
06-11-2012, 10:12 AM
Not necessarily. KG has played excellent at the 5 giving more production than Perkins did. Also, when Perkins was traded to OKC, he wasn't as fit as he is now. Furthermore, Jeff Green the main piece of the trade for the Celtics didn't have a chance to impact the season. IF Jeff Green were healthy and played into what they were doing, he might've been the small difference to get them over the top.

Kobe2324
06-11-2012, 10:24 AM
of course this hurt them badly, I hate Perkins but what he brings for toughness and D is the type of stuff that helps take teams to another Level. In the case of the celtics it hurt even more because he was really the only big that was useful since JO was injured. Garnett is good and has played C very well but he is underweight at that position and a little old to bang all season long, they will need to get a big to maybe make one last push assuming that the big 3 stay, I think pierce needs to go and sign the other KG and Ray, try to get a big for Pierce. But I think ray and kg will go elsewhere or possibly retire and the celtics will officialy rebuilding which leaves pierce in a bad spot which im sure they will try to move him at some point either way.

NYMetros
06-11-2012, 10:31 AM
I'd rather have Green and the 22nd pick in this draft than Perkins.

And the Bass trade was phenomenal by Ainge.

JordansBulls
06-14-2012, 04:51 PM
Considering Jeff Green has hardly played yes it did. But it has helped the Thunder a lot.

Missing56&33
06-14-2012, 06:58 PM
Yes...It definitely hurt the Celtics when Perk left. As Knick fan I was happy to see him go but the Knicks didn't take advantage of that. Perk is a Celtic....he'll get a chip because of Durant and Westbrook but he made the Celtics go in the paint. The Celtics team was hurt by Perk leaving.

I think the Celtics big 3 run is over but if they were to stay together next season and be a force again .....they would have to somehow bring Perk back.

hugepatsfan
06-14-2012, 09:50 PM
Perkins isn't that good. He fit what we did well, but he isn't a good piece to build around. BOS had no chance in the 10-11 season if they didn't aquire more help on the wing. Before they aquired Green, Von Wafer was their top reserve on the wing. And Perkins was the only guy they could move because of salary reasons. Most of their players outside the big 4 either had immovable contracts (Jermaine O'Neil) or vet min deals that wouldn't work in trades for salary matching. BOS had no choice but to deal Perk and hope Shaq stayed healthy. Had they of kept Perk, a lack of depth on the wing would have been their downfall. Even w/ dealing Perk, they had a chance if Shaq could have stayed healthy, however small that chance was.

And as for this year, there was no way they were extendin Perk even if he stayed so it had no effect on this year's team at all.

PAOboston
06-14-2012, 10:20 PM
Perkins isn't that good. He fit what we did well, but he isn't a good piece to build around. BOS had no chance in the 10-11 season if they didn't aquire more help on the wing. Before they aquired Green, Von Wafer was their top reserve on the wing. And Perkins was the only guy they could move because of salary reasons. Most of their players outside the big 4 either had immovable contracts (Jermaine O'Neil) or vet min deals that wouldn't work in trades for salary matching. BOS had no choice but to deal Perk and hope Shaq stayed healthy. Had they of kept Perk, a lack of depth on the wing would have been their downfall. Even w/ dealing Perk, they had a chance if Shaq could have stayed healthy, however small that chance was.

And as for this year, there was no way they were extendin Perk even if he stayed so it had no effect on this year's team at all.
this x100000000000

i liked perk. but like you said, c's had no wing help for pierce. ainge gambled for that season and it didnt work out in the end with shaq's injury. either way, perk was gone at the end of that season. ainge got green who was under team control for another year plus a pick. i dont think anyone could have forseen green's heart problem. as belichick says, "it is what it is."