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Cub_StuckinSTL
06-09-2012, 07:34 PM
Why does lebron get a pass in Cleveland for not having talent around him but AI gets destroyed?

Raps18-19 Champ
06-09-2012, 07:35 PM
Who's destroying him?

Though he did have Dikembe as a great defensive stopper. Better than anyone Lebron played with before he went to the Heat.

Wade>You
06-09-2012, 07:36 PM
Who's destroying him?

Though he did have Dikembe as a great defensive stopper.This.

ChitownBears22
06-09-2012, 07:44 PM
Who is destroying him. Another bitter bulls fan mad LeBron isn't on his favorite team.

/thread

THE GIPPER
06-09-2012, 07:45 PM
Lebron gets "destroyed" more than AI does.

topdog
06-09-2012, 07:47 PM
The Allen Iverson who didn't play defense and had to have a team constructed around him of good defenders who wouldn't dare get in the way of AI's offense?

That Allen Iverson?

MTL_123
06-09-2012, 07:49 PM
wat are u talking about no nba player gets hated on more then lebron.:confused:

2-ONE-5
06-09-2012, 07:56 PM
Who's destroying him?

Though he did have Dikembe as a great defensive stopper. Better than anyone Lebron played with before he went to the Heat.

they played together for a year and a half:facepalm:

Hawkeye15
06-09-2012, 08:40 PM
A) Iverson's help was much better than any roster Cleveland every gave LeBron

B) LeBron gets destroyed about a billion times more than AI

Hawkeye15
06-09-2012, 08:42 PM
The Allen Iverson who didn't play defense and had to have a team constructed around him of good defenders who wouldn't dare get in the way of AI's offense?

That Allen Iverson?

Welcome to the official "AI hater club". Its a long list I am proud to be a part of. Apparently calling out a player for exactly what he was is a crime.

Iverson wouldn't co-exist with anyone who would take shot opportunities from him. Therefore, they built a great defensive roster with offensive rebounders and spot up shooters.

John Walls Era
06-09-2012, 08:43 PM
People like AI, I think he gets more of a pass.

creamed corn
06-09-2012, 08:47 PM
lebron on AI's finals team would be one of the dirtiest defensive teams ever

creamed corn
06-09-2012, 08:51 PM
Welcome to the official "AI hater club". Its a long list I am proud to be a part of. Apparently calling out a player for exactly what he was is a crime.

Iverson wouldn't co-exist with anyone who would take shot opportunities from him. Therefore, they built a great defensive roster with offensive rebounders and spot up shooters.

are you questioning AI's game? maybe you would like some ice cold haterade to wash down that hater sandwich *triple facepalm*

Hawkeye15
06-09-2012, 08:53 PM
are you questioning AI's game? maybe you would like some ice cold haterade to wash down that hater sandwich *triple facepalm*

Never questioned it, just understood it. And I am so used to getting called a hater for pointing out a players faults I could care less what you call me.

Hawkeye15
06-09-2012, 08:54 PM
haha, nevermind. Just read your sig. You will never understand how to rate a player with that standoffish opinion.

Swashcuff
06-09-2012, 08:56 PM
Could you guys name any player in NBA history that was ever able to lead a team to the NBA finals without another player averaging at least 12 ppg? Do your digging I'll wait.

Swashcuff
06-09-2012, 08:57 PM
Never questioned it, just understood it. And I am so used to getting called a hater for pointing out a players faults I could care less what you call me.

Trust me Hawkeye15 you don't understand A.I.'s game. You think you do however but you're sadly mistaken.

Swashcuff
06-09-2012, 08:59 PM
Truth is guys around here think they know about Allen Iverson's cast that season but they really don't. That said his cast in 00-01 was better than LeBron's best cast but every ther season outside of that one LeBron's best casts were better than any of that A.I. had in Philly.

creamed corn
06-09-2012, 09:00 PM
Never questioned it, just understood it. And I am so used to getting called a hater for pointing out a players faults I could care less what you call me.

w/e, find me a player with a better FG per minute per pound and then well talk

Hawkeye15
06-09-2012, 09:02 PM
Trust me Hawkeye15 you don't understand A.I.'s game. You think you do however but you're sadly mistaken.

No, I do. I come off as harsh, I admit that. But its because there seems to be such a line drawn in the sand when it comes to Iverson. I loved watching him, but he had major flaws in his game, despite being able to carry sub-average rosters for long stages of the season. But you have to admit his supporting roster was very underrated, due to people seeming to rate players on how many points they score, and furthermore, look at how many perimeter players games got better when he went away. He simply didn't make others expand their games, and the only way he could lead a team DEEP into the playoffs was by surrounding him with those that didn't require a lot of shots, and were system players who could defend and rebound.

Year to year can be broken down with minor, some major differences. But all in all, its the truth.

Swashcuff
06-09-2012, 09:02 PM
Welcome to the official "AI hater club". Its a long list I am proud to be a part of. Apparently calling out a player for exactly what he was is a crime.

Iverson wouldn't co-exist with anyone who would take shot opportunities from him. Therefore, they built a great defensive roster with offensive rebounders and spot up shooters.

Why do you keep repeating this nonsense? Its like you said it so much that you believed its a fact.

A.I. BEGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEDDDDDDDDDDDDD for help, deferred to C-Webb and Carmelo and had great offensive chemistry with them and they both LOVED having him as a teammate on the offensive end. How could you honestly say that he couldn't co-exist with anyone taking shots from him? :confused:

Hawkeye15
06-09-2012, 09:03 PM
w/e, find me a player with a better FG per minute per pound and then well talk

So you want me to find you a sub 6 footer who shot all the time? Not gonna happen.

Hawkeye15
06-09-2012, 09:04 PM
Why do you keep repeating this nonsense? Its like you said it so much that you believed its a fact.

A.I. BEGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGEDDDDDDDDDDDDD for help, deferred to C-Webb and Carmelo and had great offensive chemistry with them and they both LOVED having him as a teammate on the offensive end. How could you honestly say that he couldn't co-exist with anyone taking shots from him? :confused:

This happened later in his career, when he finally realized that he didn't need to worry so much about leading the league in scoring, and furthermore, was humbled by being traded.

Swashcuff
06-09-2012, 09:09 PM
No, I do. I come off as harsh, I admit that. But its because there seems to be such a line drawn in the sand when it comes to Iverson. I loved watching him, but he had major flaws in his game, despite being able to carry sub-average rosters for long stages of the season. But you have to admit his supporting roster was very underrated, due to people seeming to rate players on how many points they score, and furthermore, look at how many perimeter players games got better when he went away. He simply didn't make others expand their games, and the only way he could lead a team DEEP into the playoffs was by surrounding him with those that didn't require a lot of shots, and were system players who could defend and rebound.

Year to year can be broken down with minor, some major differences. But all in all, its the truth.

Which supporting roster? His 00-01 club? Really?

Do we really think that season Mckie was deserving of the 6MOY? I don't think he was. Hell he wasn't even that good when he came off the bench for us offensively most of his points came when he was a starter. We didn't have Mutumbo for the most part of the season either and no other player on that entire roster scored more than 25 points in a single game that season.

I can assure you that I am not one who underrates that roster. A VERY good defensive cast but the WORST offensive supporting cast any team that every made the finals has ever had. There was no one capable of taking any of the load whatsoever off of A.I. hell even Barry, Hak, LeBron and Moses had players who were capable of scoring the basketball better than A.I.'s cast.

You can't make offensively challenged players expand their game if your sole purpose was to put the ball in the basket. There are a select few all time who could have elevated those players offensive game to a point that it would even be considered threat worthy and none of them would even think to attempt 20 shots a game because the position they play would be the PG.

llemon
06-09-2012, 09:22 PM
Which supporting roster? His 00-01 club? Really?

Do we really think that season Mckie was deserving of the 6MOY? I don't think he was. Hell he wasn't even that good when he came off the bench for us offensively most of his points came when he was a starter. We didn't have Mutumbo for the most part of the season either and no other player on that entire roster scored more than 25 points in a single game that season.

I can assure you that I am not one who underrates that roster. A VERY good defensive cast but the WORST offensive supporting cast any team that every made the finals has ever had. There was no one capable of taking any of the load whatsoever off of A.I. hell even Barry, Hak, LeBron and Moses had players who were capable of scoring the basketball better than A.I.'s cast.

You can't make offensively challenged players expand their game if your sole purpose was to put the ball in the basket. There are a select few all time who could have elevated those players offensive game to a point that it would even be considered threat worthy and none of them would even think to attempt 20 shots a game because the position they play would be the PG.

That roster (with Ratliff) was put together to get the most out of Iverson.

It is the only roster that got Iverson as far as the ECF.

If you want to wear Iverson's jock as headgear be my guest, but don't talk about what a lousy team AI played with in '00-01, because Iverson made that team necessary. Anything else is pure bull ****.

More-Than-Most
06-09-2012, 09:30 PM
He also gets slurped because of his size and that's annoying as well.

pd7631
06-09-2012, 09:30 PM
Who's destroying him?

Though he did have Dikembe as a great defensive stopper. Better than anyone Lebron played with before he went to the Heat.

Did Lebron not play with Ben Wallace? And was Ben Wallace not younger with the Cavs than Deke was with the Sixers?

More-Than-Most
06-09-2012, 09:32 PM
Which supporting roster? His 00-01 club? Really?

Do we really think that season Mckie was deserving of the 6MOY? I don't think he was. Hell he wasn't even that good when he came off the bench for us offensively most of his points came when he was a starter. We didn't have Mutumbo for the most part of the season either and no other player on that entire roster scored more than 25 points in a single game that season.

I can assure you that I am not one who underrates that roster. A VERY good defensive cast but the WORST offensive supporting cast any team that every made the finals has ever had. There was no one capable of taking any of the load whatsoever off of A.I. hell even Barry, Hak, LeBron and Moses had players who were capable of scoring the basketball better than A.I.'s cast.

You can't make offensively challenged players expand their game if your sole purpose was to put the ball in the basket. There are a select few all time who could have elevated those players offensive game to a point that it would even be considered threat worthy and none of them would even think to attempt 20 shots a game because the position they play would be the PG.

When did anyone else have time to show their offensive game? It was give the Ball to AI... Or Set up for AI... I agree with most of what you are saying but Iverson was part of the reason why the weapons around him were not that good.

llemon
06-09-2012, 09:33 PM
Did Lebron not play with Ben Wallace? And was Ben Wallace not younger with the Cavs than Deke was with the Sixers?

Wallace was DPOY when he played with Lebron?

Swashcuff
06-09-2012, 09:45 PM
When did anyone else have time to show their offensive game? It was give the Ball to AI... Or Set up for AI... I agree with most of what you are saying but Iverson was part of the reason why the weapons around him were not that good.

How many games did A.I. miss from 00-02? On quite a few occasions A.I. actually played with the mind set of getting his teammates involved.

Also what offensive game? Aaron Mckie was the only player that was of any worth offensively for that team he was the only other player that could actually create a scoring opportunity for himself. Eric Snow's biggest strength offensively was his jumper for the free throw line. That was Eric's offensive game. Those players weren't good offensively before and after they played with Allen Iverson.

Swashcuff
06-09-2012, 09:46 PM
This happened later in his career, when he finally realized that he didn't need to worry so much about leading the league in scoring, and furthermore, was humbled by being traded.

It also happened in his MVP season where he tried to play more of a point guard role early in the season and get McKie and Ratliff to be legit players offensively. That didn't work out as well as they would have hoped simply because McKie didn't offer great spacing and Ratliff couldn't create on his own from the low, mid or high post.

A.I. indeed changed as his career progressed and realized that he couldn't do it all on his own like he previously thought he needed to but that didn't change the fact that he always wanted to play alongside someone who would legitimately take some of the load offensively off his shoulders.

Point is A.I. has been on record saying it on many occasions that he wanted help. He still wanted to be the man and play every minute of every game (a bit selfish of him) but he wanted to have help on offense.

Again I admit that A.I. did change as he matured and his career went on when he realized he needed to become more team oriented but even in his early days he wanted help.

rocket
06-09-2012, 09:51 PM
lol

drew_ellis_23
06-09-2012, 09:59 PM
The last year Lebron was with the Cavs, that team wasnt that bad. They were one more player from a legit contender and they would have been in the finals had Lebron not quit on them against Boston. Lebron bailed after they traded for guys that he wanted them to and almost won a title. These threads are stupid. Shut the **** up and watch Lebron choke in another game seven cause he needs two more All Stars in Miami if he is ever going to get a ring. Thread!

Sadds The Gr8
06-09-2012, 10:01 PM
he's both overrated and underrated

xxplayerxx23
06-09-2012, 10:05 PM
Both didnt have enough help, Both got a lot of critsim, neither got a pass so i dont get the thread

llemon
06-09-2012, 10:22 PM
Both didnt have enough help, Both got a lot of critsim, neither got a pass so i dont get the thread

The type of help Iverson needed he got in '00-'01.

The type of help Lebron needed he got when he signed with Miami.

theheatles
06-09-2012, 10:22 PM
Aaron Mckie is better than anyone LeBron had in cleveland

2-ONE-5
06-09-2012, 10:25 PM
LOL at the 2 post above me

llemon
06-09-2012, 10:29 PM
It also happened in his MVP season where he tried to play more of a point guard role early in the season and get McKie and Ratliff to be legit players offensively. That didn't work out as well as they would have hoped simply because McKie didn't offer great spacing and Ratliff couldn't create on his own from the low, mid or high post.

A.I. indeed changed as his career progressed and realized that he couldn't do it all on his own like he previously thought he needed to but that didn't change the fact that he always wanted to play alongside someone who would legitimately take some of the load offensively off his shoulders.

Point is A.I. has been on record saying it on many occasions that he wanted help. He still wanted to be the man and play every minute of every game (a bit selfish of him) but he wanted to have help on offense.

Again I admit that A.I. did change as he matured and his career went on when he realized he needed to become more team oriented but even in his early days he wanted help.

AI missed 11 games in his MVP season, and Sixers were 6-5.

As for Iverson playing PG early in the season, and it not working, Sixers started the season 14-2

Swashcuff
06-09-2012, 10:29 PM
Aaron Mckie is better than anyone LeBron had in cleveland

You do mean the year LeBron went to the finals right?

llemon
06-09-2012, 10:39 PM
You do mean the year LeBron went to the finals right?

Yeah, checkout Cavs roster that season.

StinkEye
06-09-2012, 11:25 PM
LeBron = unselfish/good teammate
AI = selfish chucker