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Corndog
06-08-2012, 02:43 PM
First of all, I didn't create this thread to troll, but rather explain myself.

It's not being a bitter Lebron hater, it's hard to hate the guy when you watch him play. It's not necessarily what happened in Cleveland, but it has to do with it. There is another reason this situation left a bad taste in my mouth, it's what it meant to the NBA.

You see I grew up in the 90s and became a fan of basketball during that era. The era where it seemed like every, atleast most teams, had one star you could identify the organization with. These stars were not going anywhere and alot of them would retire with their team, if not atleast spend most of their prime with them. Even the small market teams had someone you could identify their organization with. The Supersonics had Shawn Kemp, the Golden State Warriors had Chris Mullen, and the Hornets had Muggsy Bogues. Some of these players did go onto other teams, but many stayed with them. The Bulls dominated the era, but there were still teams like the Utah Jazz led by Karl Malone, San Antonio with David Robinson, Houston with Hakeem Olajuwon, the Knicks with Patrick Ewing, the Pacers with Reggie Miller,even for a minute the Orlando Magic with Penny Hardaway and Shaq and of course the Suns with Charles Barkley. The talent was so spread out and it built interest across the league.

Don't get me wrong, the Heat certainly aren't the first team to build the so called "superteam", the Celtics were there before them. But they are the first team to do it with all of the players in their prime versus veteran players wanting to get a title before they retired.

The main reason I want them to fail, is I don't want the league to resort to this, I don't want the NBA to become MLB(actually worse) or the NFL before the salary cap. I don't want to see 5 or 6 superteams and the rest of the league doomed to fail. Sure there will probably still be teams like OKC that do it the right way, but for the most part the smaller market teams will have no incentive to compete and the bigger market teams will dominate. Also, if OKC wins the title what will be the first thing that people talk about? Will it be can this team do it again or will it be how long will this team stay together?

justinnum1
06-08-2012, 02:44 PM
:bla:

Klivlend
06-08-2012, 02:52 PM
I wish I could have back those 90 seconds I spent reading the OP...

MiamiWadeCounty
06-08-2012, 02:54 PM
tl;dr

cliffs?

ManRam
06-08-2012, 02:55 PM
I agree to an extent. I don't like how the league is becoming for a lot of reasons...one being the one you mentioned. Players have so much more power than their peers in other sports, and today's generation has realized that. They can dictate the landscape of the league more readily than any owner, GM or coach.

We now have younger players, in their primes, actively seeking trades or opportunities to play for better teams and bigger markets. It's not just LeBron and Bosh...but it's also Paul, Howard, Melo, Amare, Deron and so on and so on. Unless you are drafted to a great scenario, stars just don't have the patience. Dirk might be the last of his kind...a guy who waited, and waited, and waited, and never left...and finally was rewarded. Pierce too. I think today's stars just aren't going to have that patience, and why should they? They have the power, they can go wherever they want, so they do it.

I'm not rooting against them because of that though. They have every right to do it, so be it. Bosh was going nowhere in Toronto, no sidekick wanted to go play in Cleveland, so they left. Oh well.


The only reason I'm rooting for them is because of the annoying LeBron narratives. If they could all go away, that would be great. Not all of them, just the incredibly stupid ones.

Sactown
06-08-2012, 03:01 PM
:o

-Kobe24-TJ19-
06-08-2012, 03:03 PM
cool story bro

ManRam
06-08-2012, 03:08 PM
Really insightful responses guys!

I mean, I think it's a decent thread. The guy is articulating why he isn't rooting for the Heat, something that's a big topic today. They're the most polarizing team in recent memory. It's a huge narrative. We've heard a million reasons why, and this is slightly different...and much more well-thought out and thoroughly explained.

Maybe it's beating a dead horse, but the Heat are the biggest story in the NBA at this second...so yeah.

BrickCity
06-08-2012, 03:08 PM
Cool

nycericanguy
06-08-2012, 03:08 PM
I think for me it has alot more to do with the way they handled FAgency. It seems they planned it all along, yet Wade was going to CHI and getting info from them, and even from NY. Bosh tweeting his face off thinking he was much bigger than he really was. It was just all so silly and self absorbed, no FA's have ever acted like that.

And then of course the mega celebration before they even played a game, I have never seen anything like that. No humbleness, no humility, just purely taking the easy way to an easy 7 or 8 titles as Lebron proclaimed.

I don't HATE Lebron, at the end of the day its just a game, but MIA is public enemy #1, they made it and created it, so surely I don't want them to win titles when they all got together thinking it would be so easy. Wheres the competitive spirit after all?

b@llhog24
06-08-2012, 03:10 PM
Didn't Bill Russell's team have something like +5 HOF's? Super Team were always around.

nycericanguy
06-08-2012, 03:14 PM
Didn't Bill Russell's team have something like +5 HOF's? Super Team were always around.

Of course, but those guys didn't plan to all try to get together so they could win chips. It just happened. Like OKC's 3, and BOS's 3. MIA is the only team I can think of where 3 star friends got together instead of trying to beat each other.

And Russell was a different ERA, there were fewer teams so you had teams with 3 or 4 stars.

Now with 30 teams its a whole different story.

FlashMacker
06-08-2012, 03:14 PM
Didn't Bill Russell's team have something like +5 HOF's? Super Team were always around.

Exactly

Chronz
06-08-2012, 03:17 PM
You cant blame players for not wanting to wait for negligent ownership to do something. And I dont see any difference between then and now. Chuck wanted out twice, Dream wanted out, Kemp wanted out, Shaq wanted out.

The talent being spread out is what hurt the competition IMO, there was basically no team that could matchup to Chicago talent for talent and what we got was a very predictable game. Few stars had the support necessary to compete IMO.

D12 fan
06-08-2012, 03:17 PM
The sky is baby blue,with puffy white cluds,and a bright sun.

Chronz
06-08-2012, 03:20 PM
Of course, but those guys didn't plan to all try to get together so they could win chips.
Back in those days you could retain players far easier and the outcome was a dynasty. You complain about talent not being spread out today but back then was even worse.


It just happened. Like OKC's 3, and BOS's 3.
LMFAO, WHAT? It didnt just happen, Boston tried to trade for KG, he wasnt going for it and wouldnt accept the trade. Then they got Ray Allen and THEN KG was OK with coming over. Essentially he was controlling his own destiny despite being under contract, thats even worse.

And not every team can be as good as OKC, it doesnt change the fact that they have arguably the most talent on their team. There is no right or wrong way of acquiring talent.


MIA is the only team I can think of where 3 star friends got together instead of trying to beat each other.
Maybe the first to do so while in their relative primes but they also gave their management 7 years to build a winner, management failed them so they left.


And Russell was a different ERA, there were fewer teams so you had teams with 3 or 4 stars.

Now with 30 teams its a whole different story.

What? Can you prove this?

Corndog
06-08-2012, 03:22 PM
I agree to an extent. I don't like how the league is becoming for a lot of reasons...one being the one you mentioned. Players have so much more power than their peers in other sports, and today's generation has realized that. They can dictate the landscape of the league more readily than any owner, GM or coach.

We now have younger players, in their primes, actively seeking trades or opportunities to play for better teams and bigger markets. It's not just LeBron and Bosh...but it's also Paul, Howard, Melo, Amare, Deron and so on and so on. Unless you are drafted to a great scenario, stars just don't have the patience. Dirk might be the last of his kind...a guy who waited, and waited, and waited, and never left...and finally was rewarded. Pierce too. I think today's stars just aren't going to have that patience, and why should they? They have the power, they can go wherever they want, so they do it.

I'm not rooting against them because of that though. They have every right to do it, so be it. Bosh was going nowhere in Toronto, no sidekick wanted to go play in Cleveland, so they left. Oh well.


The only reason I'm rooting for them is because of the annoying LeBron narratives. If they could all go away, that would be great. Not all of them, just the incredibly stupid ones.

Thanks for the response and the points of Paul, Melo, and Anthony are exactly what I talking about. It seems like the young players don't have the patience to allow a team to be built around them. If they see it suceed somewhere else they are going to follow suit. Dirk might not be the last, the Bulls have D-Rose and with his injury it will just take longer. I agree with Bosh, Cleveland also wasn't perfect but I think eventually could have worked out. It took a longer time for alot of those teams in the 90s, alot of those stars were drafted in the early to mid 80s.

Slug3
06-08-2012, 03:24 PM
I read a lot of you saying superstars didnt leave teams.

Shaq - Magic to LA
Barkley - Phi to Phx to Houston
Zo - NO to Mia
Rodman - Det to SA to Chi to LA
Mutombo - Den to Atl
Tim Hardaway - GSW to Mia

I mean a lot of these guys left.

Chronz
06-08-2012, 03:25 PM
I forgot to add MJ threatened to quit if they got rid of his support.

Wade>You
06-08-2012, 03:26 PM
:bla:Excellent post to start this thread.

dnewguy
06-08-2012, 03:30 PM
The curse of Lebron was that he immediately elevated the Cavs and they couldnt get low draft picks to build around for the future but Durrant was fortunate that his team sucked and they got high drafts which enabled them to build. I dont know any superstar that will stay in a situation that isn't yielding anything....KG tried and see how that turned out.

nycericanguy
06-08-2012, 03:32 PM
Back in those days you could retain players far easier and the outcome was a dynasty. You complain about talent not being spread out today but back then was even worse.


LMFAO, WHAT? It didnt just happen, Boston tried to trade for KG, he wasnt going for it and wouldnt accept the trade. Then they got Ray Allen and THEN KG was OK with coming over. Essentially he was controlling his own destiny despite being under contract, thats even worse.

And not every team can be as good as OKC, it doesnt change the fact that they have arguably the most talent on their team. There is no right or wrong way of acquiring talent.


Maybe the first to do so while in their relative primes but they also gave their management 7 years to build a winner, management failed them so they left.


What? Can you prove this?

Did KG, Pierce & Ray all plan and conspire to try to team up to win titles? Of course not. Pierce was there and BOS managed to pull off 2 separate trades.

Of course it matters how the talent was acquired. That's probably the biggest reason MIA is hated, because of the way they came to be. OKC is a very likable team, you don't hear anyone on that team talking about themselves as the "greatest trio ever to play", or talking about how its going to be "easy", or 7 or 8 titles, or accepting keys to the city before they even played a game.

What MIA's big 3 did is unheard of in today's era. For 3 stars in their prime.

Corndog
06-08-2012, 03:35 PM
You cant blame players for not wanting to wait for negligent ownership to do something. And I dont see any difference between then and now. Chuck wanted out twice, Dream wanted out, Kemp wanted out, Shaq wanted out.

The talent being spread out is what hurt the competition IMO, there was basically no team that could matchup to Chicago talent for talent and what we got was a very predictable game. Few stars had the support necessary to compete IMO.

It wasn't completely unheard of back then, players did leave teams, but the star players in teams that were close were more likely to stay. Shaq was really the first that comes to mind in leaving a team that was close to title contention, with him team loyalty completely went out the window. I think the Magic would have eventually won a title with him.

As far as far as hurting the league and Chicago not having competition, they had competition. It's not like they were blowing teams out the water, most of their championship series were very competitive. Micheal was known for his game winning shots in those series and they aren't called game winning shots when their team is leading by 20 points.

nycericanguy
06-08-2012, 03:35 PM
I think in general MIA's 3 is just perceived as arrogant and having tried to take the easy way out. That's just not something most fans want to root for. And they bought it on themselves in alot of ways.

Cromedome
06-08-2012, 03:40 PM
Lebron James and the Heat have ruined the NBA...so that's why i'm rooting for the Heat to fail.

Hellcrooner
06-08-2012, 03:40 PM
First of all, I didn't create this thread to troll, but rather explain myself.

It's not being a bitter Lebron hater, it's hard to hate the guy when you watch him play. It's not necessarily what happened in Cleveland, but it has to do with it. There is another reason this situation left a bad taste in my mouth, it's what it meant to the NBA.

You see I grew up in the 90s and became a fan of basketball during that era. The era where it seemed like every, atleast most teams, had one star you could identify the organization with. These stars were not going anywhere and alot of them would retire with their team, if not atleast spend most of their prime with them. Even the small market teams had someone you could identify their organization with. The Supersonics had Shawn Kemp, the Golden State Warriors had Chris Mullen, and the Hornets had Muggsy Bogues. Some of these players did go onto other teams, but many stayed with them. The Bulls dominated the era, but there were still teams like the Utah Jazz led by Karl Malone, San Antonio with David Robinson, Houston with Hakeem Olajuwon, the Knicks with Patrick Ewing, the Pacers with Reggie Miller,even for a minute the Orlando Magic with Penny Hardaway and Shaq and of course the Suns with Charles Barkley. The talent was so spread out and it built interest across the league.

Don't get me wrong, the Heat certainly aren't the first team to build the so called "superteam", the Celtics were there before them. But they are the first team to do it with all of the players in their prime versus veteran players wanting to get a title before they retired.

The main reason I want them to fail, is I don't want the league to resort to this, I don't want the NBA to become MLB(actually worse) or the NFL before the salary cap. I don't want to see 5 or 6 superteams and the rest of the league doomed to fail. Sure there will probably still be teams like OKC that do it the right way, but for the most part the smaller market teams will have no incentive to compete and the bigger market teams will dominate. Also, if OKC wins the title what will be the first thing that people talk about? Will it be can this team do it again or will it be how long will this team stay together?

barkley forced a trade from sixers to suns then ended in houston to go chase a ring.
Shaq forced his way into L.A

Lots of players changed teams too.
Nothing new.

Hellcrooner
06-08-2012, 03:43 PM
I agree to an extent. I don't like how the league is becoming for a lot of reasons...one being the one you mentioned. Players have so much more power than their peers in other sports, and today's generation has realized that. They can dictate the landscape of the league more readily than any owner, GM or coach.

We now have younger players, in their primes, actively seeking trades or opportunities to play for better teams and bigger markets. It's not just LeBron and Bosh...but it's also Paul, Howard, Melo, Amare, Deron and so on and so on. Unless you are drafted to a great scenario, stars just don't have the patience. Dirk might be the last of his kind...a guy who waited, and waited, and waited, and never left...and finally was rewarded. Pierce too. I think today's stars just aren't going to have that patience, and why should they? They have the power, they can go wherever they want, so they do it.

I'm not rooting against them because of that though. They have every right to do it, so be it. Bosh was going nowhere in Toronto, no sidekick wanted to go play in Cleveland, so they left. Oh well.


The only reason I'm rooting for them is because of the annoying LeBron narratives. If they could all go away, that would be great. Not all of them, just the incredibly stupid ones.

Players of every sport around the world outside u.s specially SOCCER players say ha ha ha to that statement.,

popo85
06-08-2012, 03:44 PM
In 1998 after winning the NBA championship Pippen went to Houston to form a big 3 with Charles and Hakeem yes they were older but still playing a solid level.

03' Malone and Payton joined LA and no one minded even though they were old but still playing well, as Laker fan it was a great moment for us.

07' The Celtics traded a high but pick in a mediocre draft class for an All star and a decent big for a superstar PF no one made a big deal and said it wasn't fair.

Whether they are older stars or not they all are trying to do what the Heat are, form a great team with 3 stars just because Lebron is apart of it imo people dislike it. And since then Melo, D.Howard, CP3 and other players in there prime are trying to form or be apart of star filled teams but are not bashed as much as James.

Chronz
06-08-2012, 03:48 PM
Did KG, Pierce & Ray all plan and conspire to try to team up to win titles? Of course not. Pierce was there and BOS managed to pull off 2 separate trades.
Of course not? Yea they did, Pierce tried to get KG to accept, he relented. Then they got Ray Allen and BOTH of them talked with KG, he accepted. So at the least we KNOW KG agreed to be traded to Boston only AFTER they had acquired Ray Allen.


Of course it matters how the talent was acquired. That's probably the biggest reason MIA is hated, because of the way they came to be. OKC is a very likable team, you don't hear anyone on that team talking about themselves as the "greatest trio ever to play", or talking about how its going to be "easy", or 7 or 8 titles, or accepting keys to the city before they even played a game.
Im not talking about their affinity, only that it makes no difference in terms of on court talent. There was nothing wrong with 3 free agents coming together. You can have a problem with their pep rally but do not make it seem like it was how they felt about the game. In an ACTUAL INTERVIEW setting, you know the kind where your not trying to hype up the crowd, they spoke of how hard and how much effort it would require to win.


What MIA's big 3 did is unheard of in today's era. For 3 stars in their prime.
Yup, considering their prior situations I cant blame them. I mean KG wishes he had demanded a trade from Minny far sooner, why would they want to repeat his mistake?

netsgiantsyanks
06-08-2012, 03:54 PM
he has a valid point, but i see miami at least winning 1 championship. some thought that they were going to win championships until the end of time but it doesn't work like that. you have to have a well rounded team, not 3 stars and scrubs. unfortunately, they have little to no cap room because of wade, bosh, and lebron. with a team like OKC, they can afford a couple of more pieces because it's not like they signed their key pieces, they drafted them.

Dade County
06-08-2012, 03:54 PM
Lebron James and the Heat have ruined the NBA...so that's why i'm rooting for the Heat to fail.

Can you explain? So if NY would have got Lbj and stat is that still ruining the league.

If Bosh went to the bulls is that still ruining the league.

What would have been good for the league, these players not using their free agency rights and staying with teams that they don't have to.

netsgiantsyanks
06-08-2012, 03:55 PM
plus OKC can let one go(harden, ibaka) in order to bring in a few more pieces.

Bruno
06-08-2012, 04:03 PM
The talent being spread out is what hurt the competition IMO, there was basically no team that could matchup to Chicago talent for talent and what we got was a very predictable game. Few stars had the support necessary to compete IMO.

absolutely.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SEA/1996.html

The 1996 Sonics wouldn't even come close to winning 64 games in the 2010's. They'd be lucky to get out of the second round with teams like OKC/SAS in the running. Look at the advanced numbers of those players. kidding me?

Bruno
06-08-2012, 04:06 PM
plus OKC can let one go(harden, ibaka) in order to bring in a few more pieces.

no they can't.

Chronz
06-08-2012, 04:13 PM
It wasn't completely unheard of back then, players did leave teams, but the star players in teams that were close were more likely to stay. Shaq was really the first that comes to mind in leaving a team that was close to title contention, with him team loyalty completely went out the window. I think the Magic would have eventually won a title with him.
Kemp left a loaded Sonics team because he didnt the contract his teammate got. Wilt left a loaded Sixers team because they reneged on a deal he made with their deceased owner, a move he would later regret BTW.


As far as far as hurting the league and Chicago not having competition, they had competition. It's not like they were blowing teams out the water, most of their championship series were very competitive. Micheal was known for his game winning shots in those series and they aren't called game winning shots when their team is leading by 20 points.

Very competitive? Not in my book, every year I put my money on the Bulls not even caring who they faced. Every year they won the title they had by far the best efficiency differentials in the league. MJ had so much talent that he threatened to quit if they traded his sidekick and didnt bring back his HOF caoch, they were so well coached and so talented that they were able to lock up the 3rd seed without MJ even playing.

There were a few teams here and there that were within proximity so I agree they didnt blow everyone out. The Celtics dynasty of the 60's won alot of games by a whisker, it doesnt change the fact that they were far and away the most loaded team in the league. The margin for error is so much smaller that the best chance teams had to win was by the skin of their teeth.

So yes they werent blowing teams out every series but they did blow out quite abit of them. They DESTROYED the Lakers in their first Finals and swept the Pistons in the ECF. From what I remember they toyed with the Blazers, their losses were close but the wins were routes. Same thing against the Sonics. At the end of his career they had more challenges but that also came with Pippen suffering through some back problems and not being 100%.


I get that you dont agree but to me they had the most talent with no other team being able to compare. But cmon, they won their first title by going 15-2, another by going 15-4, another 15-3, another 15-4. In their final year they were pushed to 7 by an admittedly deep Pacers but that was the year Pippen was playing with a bad back and Rodman was becoming less stable. Thats what it took for a really deep team to have a shot at winning against an old Bulls team. Thats not my idea of parity.


The Knicks gave them a scare 1 year but they were barely a 50 win team facing a 67 win team. Thats a lopsided affair to me, it went 7 because they had great defense and Ewing could exploit their centers but imagine if the Knicks actually had a decent sidekick for Ewing. No, instead he has to somehow find a way to will an inferior cast past a clearly superior power.

Thunder 9
06-08-2012, 04:15 PM
I dont like the heat because they deemed themselves champions before they played a game last year and james and wade just want a big finger pointed at them saying look at me. When james said not one not two not three and all that he should have just stopped at not one. There are other reasons but i dont feel like typing anymore.

Chronz
06-08-2012, 04:19 PM
absolutely.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SEA/1996.html

The 1996 Sonics wouldn't even come close to winning 64 games in the 2010's. They'd be lucky to get out of the second round with teams like OKC/SAS in the running. Look at the advanced numbers of those players. kidding me?

And the Sonics were one of the few teams that had talent, they had the 2nd best SRS and the Bulls were still 4.4PTS higher than them, LMFAO in the East that year, thats basically the gap between being the 2nd best team vs being an 8th seeded team.

That said that Sonics team was pretty good, PER wont do justice to the defensive impact GP and Kemp had, and they were one of the first teams to play an inverted offense with stretch bigs and post up guards. But yea I would have OKC and LAL ahead of them in the West. Not sure about SAS but its close. Just gos to show how many more powers we have today, even if it leads to more ****** teams I rather have more cream of the crop than 1 power and a bunch of pretenders.

gotoHcarolina52
06-08-2012, 04:21 PM
It sucks that the Heat are ruining the league. It really, really sucks. :(

Chronz
06-08-2012, 04:24 PM
he has a valid point, but i see miami at least winning 1 championship. some thought that they were going to win championships until the end of time but it doesn't work like that. you have to have a well rounded team, not 3 stars and scrubs. unfortunately, they have little to no cap room because of wade, bosh, and lebron. with a team like OKC, they can afford a couple of more pieces because it's not like they signed their key pieces, they drafted them.

Thats true, thats the advantage of having a team that can draft well. But with the impending salary cap, I wonder if they will be forced to jettison at least 1 of their stars. Riley has proven ineffective with his signings and drafting so perhaps the Heat wont be the threat many thought.

I mean they are a really flawed team, their 2 best players dont compliment eachother and one of them is clearly on the decline. The league isnt doomed because of their partnership so whats with all the complaints? To act like Jordans era didnt suffer from 1 superteam standing FAR above the league is revisionist history, we just didnt complain because everyone loved MJ, nobody cared about his gambling habits and threats of quitting. For some reason nobody cared when they were gifted Rodman either.

khaleesi
06-08-2012, 04:25 PM
Heat are great for BB. Their failure will simply keep fans waiting for not 2, not 3, not 4 .....

Makes for great theatre.

Hellcrooner
06-08-2012, 04:27 PM
And the Sonics were one of the few teams that had talent, they had the 2nd best SRS and the Bulls were still 4.4PTS higher than them, LMFAO in the East that year, thats basically the gap between being the 2nd best team vs being an 8th seeded team.

That said that Sonics team was pretty good, PER wont do justice to the defensive impact GP and Kemp had, and they were one of the first teams to play an inverted offense with stretch bigs and post up guards. But yea I would have OKC and LAL ahead of them in the West. Not sure about SAS but its close. Just gos to show how many more powers we have today, even if it leads to more ****** teams I rather have more cream of the crop than 1 power and a bunch of pretenders.

And thats why 80s were much funnier, because there were several powerhowses even if only 4 managed to get the ultimate win ( lakers, celtics, sixers, pistons) there were other teams that had amazing talent at different points of the decade, Blazers, Suns, Mavs, Nuggets, Rockets in the west, Bucks, Hawks, Cavs in the east.

mjm07
06-08-2012, 04:27 PM
In 1998 after winning the NBA championship Pippen went to Houston to form a big 3 with Charles and Hakeem yes they were older but still playing a solid level.

03' Malone and Payton joined LA and no one minded even though they were old but still playing well, as Laker fan it was a great moment for us.

07' The Celtics traded a high but pick in a mediocre draft class for an All star and a decent big for a superstar PF no one made a big deal and said it wasn't fair.

Whether they are older stars or not they all are trying to do what the Heat are, form a great team with 3 stars just because Lebron is apart of it imo people dislike it. And since then Melo, D.Howard, CP3 and other players in there prime are trying to form or be apart of star filled teams but are not bashed as much as James.


:clap:

/thread

Chronz
06-08-2012, 04:29 PM
Honestly there is nothing worse than a mediocre team retaining its stars. Imagine if Ray Allen or Michael Redd would have left their poor teams to join LeBron in Cleveland. We would have had another legitimate power in the East. Instead we had Bron maximizing role players and Ray/Redd missing the playoffs perennially.

Chronz
06-08-2012, 04:33 PM
And thats why 80s were much funnier, because there were several powerhowses even if only 4 managed to get the ultimate win ( lakers, celtics, sixers, pistons) there were other teams that had amazing talent at different points of the decade, Blazers, Suns, Mavs, Nuggets, Rockets in the west, Bucks, Hawks, Cavs in the east.

Yup, parity was worse then but the best teams were far closer to each other IMO. Well except in the West but thats only because Sampson got hurt and Lucas got hooked on coke and Arvydas wasnt allowed to play. Even the Bucks were a decent team.

The early 90's were decent tho.

I understand that MJ was the best and thats what made his teams stand out so much, but I would have liked seeing the teams that didnt have MJ at least have more talent than he did. Dream and Drexler shouldve joined up alot sooner, Dream was the only player on par with MJ and he wasted away on crap teams.

Corndog
06-08-2012, 04:34 PM
In 1998 after winning the NBA championship Pippen went to Houston to form a big 3 with Charles and Hakeem yes they were older but still playing a solid level.

03' Malone and Payton joined LA and no one minded even though they were old but still playing well, as Laker fan it was a great moment for us.

07' The Celtics traded a high but pick in a mediocre draft class for an All star and a decent big for a superstar PF no one made a big deal and said it wasn't fair.

Whether they are older stars or not they all are trying to do what the Heat are, form a great team with 3 stars just because Lebron is apart of it imo people dislike it. And since then Melo, D.Howard, CP3 and other players in there prime are trying to form or be apart of star filled teams but are not bashed as much as James.

Very good point at the end, Lebron isn't the only one, but he is the top player of the group. It's the only disadvantage of being that good.

It is already becoming common place, so it's too late to prevent. But from this point forward if it doesn't work, it could discourage it from happening as much as it has in the last two years.

IndiansFan337
06-08-2012, 04:48 PM
I want the Heat to fail because of the way LeBron bolted my favorite team and left us high and dry.

I hate how he and Wade constantly whine to officials when fouls are not called, throwing their hands up in disgust after every drive to the hoop. Especially when replays clearly show that no one fouled or even touched them.

Corndog
06-08-2012, 04:56 PM
And thats why 80s were much funnier, because there were several powerhowses even if only 4 managed to get the ultimate win ( lakers, celtics, sixers, pistons) there were other teams that had amazing talent at different points of the decade, Blazers, Suns, Mavs, Nuggets, Rockets in the west, Bucks, Hawks, Cavs in the east.

Man I wish I could have watched and appreciated basketball in the 80s, I was just way too young.

Chronz
06-08-2012, 04:59 PM
ManRam just reminded me of one, Tmac and Grant Hill hooked up young too.

ChicagoJ
06-08-2012, 05:02 PM
I'm rooting against the heat, mainly because they are a rival team and how players got together. It's almost unfair to other teams that they have 3 all stars of the calibur they do. I just don't like how it was put together.

However, I just want to see the heat earn it. After this season if my Bulls aren't in contention at some point next year I'm all for seeing LeBron get a championship. I just wanted to see the heat work for it and not go on a run of 7 titles or something like that.

TopsyTurvy
06-08-2012, 05:04 PM
I am rooting for Lebron, but against the Heat.

ChiSox219
06-08-2012, 05:13 PM
If lebron were serious about wanting to win he would've taken Bosh with him to Chicago. They all just want to chill and still be able to compete for a title.

basketfan4life
06-08-2012, 05:14 PM
:bla:

really, this is why you are hated so much. The guy is talking about sthing, not even hating on the heat, not at all. And you come up with this **** ? GTFO.


I wish I could have back those 90 seconds I spent reading the OP...

So then you tought it would be good to spent another 15 seconds to write this nonesense. Bravo.

Pacerlive
06-08-2012, 05:15 PM
ManRam just reminded me of one, Tmac and Grant Hill hooked up young too.

I hope everyone knows that there is a difference between players hooking up via a trade and players signing to one team all in the same year.

The later is not very common IMO especially with players in their prime. Players forcing a trade is not uncommon though but the difference is that teams giving up the player atleast get something back.

IF you are a fan of a team that has lost a player through a forced trade you are much happier than a fan who has lost a player via a player collusion through FA which is what the Heat did and Boston did not.

Even with the bad trades of Grizzles (Pau Gasol to the Lakers) didn't leave them with a huge talent void. I mean Marc Gasol did come out of that trade!

Which fans do you think are happier right now? Nuggets and Jazz vs Raptors and Cavs?

Good players leaving teams is going to happen but lets not act like all great teams acquire their players the same.

topdog
06-08-2012, 05:16 PM
I was actually kind of eager to see it happen because it sounded intrguing, but I think those 3 guys mangled the process with their theatrics.

Honestly, I was far more upset about Malone and Payton taking major paycuts to form a Lakers superteam. And I was glad they lost.

At the end of the day, I find it far more enjoyable to root for and watch the teams that were built through the draft and brilliant (or very lucky) trades.

Rad_Racing
06-08-2012, 05:19 PM
NBA JAM circa '94 is an example of part of the OP's point about the spread of stars and solid players throughout the league.

Pacerlive
06-08-2012, 05:23 PM
I was actually kind of eager to see it happen because it sounded intrguing, but I think those 3 guys mangled the process with their theatrics.

Honestly, I was far more upset about Malone and Payton taking major paycuts to form a Lakers superteam. And I was glad they lost.

At the end of the day, I find it far more enjoyable to root for and watch the teams that were built through the draft and brilliant (or very lucky) trades.

Its defiantly refreshing to see a team built through draft and trades than a team that whores themselves out to superstars and bend over backwards to acquire them.

nycericanguy
06-08-2012, 05:27 PM
Its defiantly refreshing to see a team built through draft and trades than a team that whores themselves out to superstars and bend over backwards to acquire them.

Yep, as a Knick fan I'm almost engineered to hate IND, but I can't help but like their team.

If Deron didn't care so much about markets vs actually winning he would go there and that would complete IND.

topdog
06-08-2012, 05:27 PM
In 1998 after winning the NBA championship Pippen went to Houston to form a big 3 with Charles and Hakeem yes they were older but still playing a solid level.

03' Malone and Payton joined LA and no one minded even though they were old but still playing well, as Laker fan it was a great moment for us.

07' The Celtics traded a high but pick in a mediocre draft class for an All star and a decent big for a superstar PF no one made a big deal and said it wasn't fair.

I was pissed about that! It would have been one thing if they were paid a similar salary to their last deal, but they signed veterans minimum contracts or something llike that. I thought it was ******** and said why don't Garnett, Nash and T-mac get together for one year on the cheap to get their championship?

The Celtics made their moves through trades which means at least one other team in the league has to consent to giving you those players - in this case 2. That was just great timing and GMing to turn a bunch of young players with potential into All-Stars of the Northwest. Garnett didn't even want to go there at first and the team gave up a lot of players. If you're going to be mad at anyone for that, be mad at Phoenix for giving away Rajon Rondo.

Same kind of deal with Gasol. He didn't take a paycut or conspire in free agency. Memphis agreed to the deal and got players back including the other Gasol.

Dade County
06-08-2012, 05:39 PM
I hope everyone knows that there is a difference between players hooking up via a trade and players signing to one team all in the same year.

The later is not very common IMO especially with players in their prime. Players forcing a trade is not uncommon though but the difference is that teams giving up the player atleast get something back.

IF you a fan a team that has lost a player through a forced trade you much happier than a fan who has lost a player via a player collusion through FA which is what the Heat did and Boston did not.



I really HOPE that you are blaming the front offices of those two organizations for not trading Lbj and Bosh, when they did not pick up their options or extended their contracts.

Because if you are blaming free agency for signing with another team... you have problems ( Collusion or Not ).

Chronz
06-08-2012, 05:42 PM
I hope everyone knows that there is a difference between players hooking up via a trade and players signing to one team all in the same year.
Grant Hill and Tmac were both free agents. Tmac then forced a trade to join Yao. So Tmac has done it in different ways.


The later is not very common IMO especially with players in their prime. Players forcing a trade is not uncommon though but the difference is that teams giving up the player atleast get something back.

Sometimes getting something back is worse than losing the player outright. And you can still do sign and trades if you really want to.


IF you a fan a team that has lost a player through a forced trade you much happier than a fan who has lost a player via a player collusion through FA which is what the Heat did and Boston did not.

Not always but its not the free agents concern what his former team does. He has new loyalties. By your same logic, as a fan of his NEW team, wouldnt you want to keep your team without giving up much, and shouldnt Bron care more about his new fans/team than the one that failed him?

And can you prove collusion? You do realize the Heat tried to lure Odom away the year prior, if Riley/Wade knew of the Big3 coming together all along, why try recruit Odom?


Even with the bad trades of Grizzles (Pau Gasol to the Lakers) didn't leave them with a huge talent void. I mean Marc Gasol did come out of that trade!

IIRC there were better deals for the Grizz and I never considered it a bad trade, Marc had potential if he lost the weight. Also, they gave up Pau for salary relief which led to the signing of Z-Bo. And now they are a first round team yet again.


Which fans do you think are happier right now? Nuggets and Jazz vs Raptors and Cavs?

Well the Cavs were able to land Kyrie Irving in part because they gave up on the future and were willing to buy picks. Raps/Cavs could have taken Beasley but they were willing to take first rounders. Funny you mention the Jazz, remember when they were forced to give up the pick that became Magic Johnson, dont you think they would have rather have kept the pick and signed the FA outright?

Remember when Seattle let Rashard Lewis walk so they could continue building through the draft. You dont always have to take in new talent if your situation doesnt warrant it. Sometimes its best to just suck balls and rebuild properly.

Remember when the Knicks were stuck with horrible contracts when they traded Ewing? Or when the Lakers were forced to hold out for a miracle because the Brian Grant contract that the Shaq trade saddled them with. They had to waste 3 of Kobes prime years which inevitably led to him requesting a trade. Those wasted years led to the drafting of Bynum which calmed his nerves one year but when he went down thats when the Lakers were willing to trade for Pau. There are so many variables that go into a team recovering. They dont always pan out and its not as simple as you make it seem. Nor is it relevant, the player isnt obligated to help the team hes leaving, thats why we got rid of the compensation rule.


Good players leaving teams is going to happen but lets not act like all great teams acquire their players the same.

What made you think I did?

Pacerlive
06-08-2012, 05:51 PM
I really HOPE that you are blaming the front offices of those two organizations for not trading Lbj and Bosh, when they did not pick up their options or extended their contracts.

Because if you are blaming free agency for signing with another team... you have problems ( Collusion or Not ).

I guess I should correct myself. Bosh was a sign and trade but the net worth of the trade was lost in the fact that it had really nothing in return for Raptors.

If your franchise player says he will resign with you or atleast gives you favorable odds then I don't have a problem with a FA holding on to their players. When the player says that and all along feels the grass is greener on the other side which is what I believe Lebron did then I got a problem to it because its not stringing along just the owner but the fans as well.

Dade County
06-08-2012, 05:53 PM
I get it.... some of you posters HATE free agency because most of the times the only way your fan base can actually get a player you really really want, is by your team trading for that player.

But you shouldn't throw hate at star players, because they like a certain marketplace, it's their business, they have earned the right to become free agents.

For example:
If D will wants noting to do with the pacers ( I am not saying D will said this ) and he wants to join a team that has very good players on it already, and that team happens to be in a BIG market, thats his business.

JordansBulls
06-08-2012, 05:58 PM
absolutely.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SEA/1996.html

The 1996 Sonics wouldn't even come close to winning 64 games in the 2010's. They'd be lucky to get out of the second round with teams like OKC/SAS in the running. Look at the advanced numbers of those players. kidding me?

That Sonics team would probably win 70 games nowadays. You have had one man teams lead teams to 60+ wins in this era. The Sonics were stacked.

Pacerlive
06-08-2012, 06:00 PM
I get it.... some of you posters HATE free agency because most of the times the only way your fan base can actually get a player you really really want, is by your team trading for that player.

But you shouldn't throw hate at star players, because they like a certain marketplace, it's their business, they have earned the right to become free agents.

For example:
If D will wants noting to do with the pacers ( I am not saying D will said this ) and he wants to join a team that has very good players on it already, and that team happens to be in a BIG market, thats his business.

ITs not hate its common sense. I have the right to leave my place of employment in a way that reflects me. Loyal and honorable.

I don't have to lie about my interest in other jobs or act like I am not actively searching for a better place to work.

I can either cross over the bridge that helped me be the person I am today or I can burn it to the ground in a TV special.

Chronz,
Tmac went to the Magic on a sign and trade not via FA.

mark1125
06-08-2012, 06:01 PM
My reasons are simple:

1) To see their bandwagon fans go home in tears again. Heat have worst fans in the league IMO.

2) "The Decision"

3) The Pre-Championship party.

4) I root against any overhyped team that is crammed down out throats.

Dade County
06-08-2012, 06:02 PM
I guess I should correct myself. Bosh was a sign and trade but the net worth of the trade was lost in the fact that it had really nothing in return for Raptors.

Thats not the HEAT problem, the raptors should have traded him.



If your franchise player says he will resign with you or atleast gives you favorable odds then I don't have a problem with a FA holding on to their players.

Like Wade and Dirk :clap:



When the player says that and all along feels the grass is greener on the other side which is what I believe Lebron did then I got a problem to it because its not stringing along just the owner but the fans as well.

I can agree with this.

But If a player tells the owner i will not resign with you when my contract is up, and then that owner says, well OK, can we perform a side & trade with you so we can get some players back ( and of course they pitch to that player that he gets more money out of it too ).... What if that player says no thank you, is he instantly labeled a bad guy/whatever bad name you guys come up with.

Because I don't feel that that player should receive any hate from that fan base.

Dade County
06-08-2012, 06:07 PM
ITs not hate its common sense. I have the right to leave my place of employment in a way that reflects me. Loyal and honorable.

Does "Loyal and honorable" mean to you, that you should help your soon to be former team, get players and picks from your future team?



I don't have to lie about my interest in other jobs or act like I am not actively searching for a better place to work.

I can agree with this.



I can either cross over the bridge that helped me be the person I am today or I can burn it to the ground in a TV special.

How are you burring them to the ground by becoming a free agent? And yes the TV special was too much, but i am not talking about Lbj here.

Pacerlive
06-08-2012, 06:09 PM
Dade County,
Why do you think player X says no thank you?

Lebron with all his PR flops is not stupid. He doesn't want to gut a team before he joins it and I understand that aspect of it..

Just don't lie about your intentions and if Leborn was then the so called hate wouldn't pile up on him.

As far as your burning the bridges question its simple.

Don't tell ownership you will be back or even if there is a good chance of being back. Don't tell fans that or your mother that when you know full well that you plan on something different. Thats all! Be honest and your FA choice will be respected by most if not all fans.

Chronz
06-08-2012, 06:13 PM
That Sonics team would probably win 70 games nowadays. You have had one man teams lead teams to 60+ wins in this era. The Sonics were stacked.

Nah, remember the Hawks that won 57 games, that team would barely crack .500 today.

Chronz
06-08-2012, 06:15 PM
Chronz,
Tmac went to the Magic on a sign and trade not via FA.
lol so did Bron which renders your entire argument moot.

The facts are they were only traded because they were free agents and the other team had the cap space to either sign them outright or absorb them, if they didnt help them get traded they would have received nothing.

Sixerlover
06-08-2012, 06:16 PM
You guys crack me up

Dade County
06-08-2012, 06:20 PM
Dade County,
Why do you think player X says no thank you?

Lebron with all his PR flops is not stupid. He doesn't want to gut a team before he joins it and I understand that aspect of it..

Just don't lie about your intentions and if Leborn was then the so called hate wouldn't pile up on him.


Ok cool ... you are not an insane poster.




As far as your burning the bridges question its simple.

Don't tell ownership you will be back or even if there is a good chance of being back. Don't tell fans that or your mother that when you know full well that you plan on something different. Thats all! Be honest and your FA choice will be respected by most if not all fans.

Agreed!

JordansBulls
06-08-2012, 06:21 PM
Nah, remember the Hawks that won 57 games, that team would barely crack .500 today.

In 1997? That team would dominate nowadays. They are much better than the Pacers. Deke, Steve Smith, Blaylock to name a few.

NBAFan2012
06-08-2012, 06:26 PM
I remember these type of threads came out when Lebron first joined the Heat. And everyone thought they were going to win. They won a Game 6....it does not mean they are winning a title. Just wait, if they do, then cry like this, until then... "blah blah blah blah" is right

JasonJohnHorn
06-08-2012, 06:33 PM
Yeah. Me too.

Hawkeye15
06-08-2012, 06:35 PM
I root for the Heat simply so Bron wins a ring or multiple, so the blind haters stfu.

Without elaborating, that is my stance on them. When the Wolves are eliminated from the playoffs every December, the Heat are who I root for.

Hawkeye15
06-08-2012, 06:36 PM
I will say also, when Bron does win a ring, I go back to thinking of him and the Heat with complete indifference, like I did before the pileup of haters began.

Chronz
06-08-2012, 06:39 PM
in 1997? That team would dominate nowadays. They are much better than the pacers. Deke, steve smith, blaylock to name a few.

94.

The 97 team won 56.

JordansBulls
06-08-2012, 06:42 PM
94.

The 97 team won 56.

Yeah I mentioned about 1994 before. Remember in 1993 they won only 43 games and this with a superstar in Nique on the team and 1994 they won 14 more games and didn't have a star but had the same team except Nique.

But as far as 1996 it had the Rockets who had peak Hakeem and Drexler and they only won 48 games. In this era they win 60 games at least.

Chronz
06-08-2012, 06:51 PM
Yeah I mentioned about 1994 before. Remember in 1993 they won only 43 games and this with a superstar in Nique on the team and 1994 they won 14 more games and didn't have a star but had the same team except Nique.

But as far as 1996 it had the Rockets who had peak Hakeem and Drexler and they only won 48 games. In this era they win 60 games at least.
Drexler was in peak form at age 33 (damn near 34 by the playoffs)? F NO he wasnt

Still are you suggesting the league was weak in 94 and then became immensely stronger in 96?

theheatles
06-08-2012, 07:04 PM
this is simple, it's pure nostalgia, NEXT!

nycericanguy
06-08-2012, 07:04 PM
And 2 months of having all these new "heat fans" with the "YOU MAD", and "O YES WE DID"...certainly didn't make MIA anymore likeable.

theheatles
06-08-2012, 07:07 PM
Drexler was in peak form at age 33 (damn near 34 by the playoffs)? F NO he wasnt

Still are you suggesting the league was weak in 94 and then became immensely stronger in 96?

the league did get immensely better in 96...the 96 draft is a top 3 draft of all time

FreakaNashur
06-08-2012, 07:11 PM
First of all, I didn't create this thread to troll, but rather explain myself.

It's not being a bitter Lebron hater, it's hard to hate the guy when you watch him play. It's not necessarily what happened in Cleveland, but it has to do with it. There is another reason this situation left a bad taste in my mouth, it's what it meant to the NBA.

You see I grew up in the 90s and became a fan of basketball during that era. The era where it seemed like every, atleast most teams, had one star you could identify the organization with. These stars were not going anywhere and alot of them would retire with their team, if not atleast spend most of their prime with them. Even the small market teams had someone you could identify their organization with. The Supersonics had Shawn Kemp, the Golden State Warriors had Chris Mullen, and the Hornets had Muggsy Bogues. Some of these players did go onto other teams, but many stayed with them. The Bulls dominated the era, but there were still teams like the Utah Jazz led by Karl Malone, San Antonio with David Robinson, Houston with Hakeem Olajuwon, the Knicks with Patrick Ewing, the Pacers with Reggie Miller,even for a minute the Orlando Magic with Penny Hardaway and Shaq and of course the Suns with Charles Barkley. The talent was so spread out and it built interest across the league.

Don't get me wrong, the Heat certainly aren't the first team to build the so called "superteam", the Celtics were there before them. But they are the first team to do it with all of the players in their prime versus veteran players wanting to get a title before they retired.

The main reason I want them to fail, is I don't want the league to resort to this, I don't want the NBA to become MLB(actually worse) or the NFL before the salary cap. I don't want to see 5 or 6 superteams and the rest of the league doomed to fail. Sure there will probably still be teams like OKC that do it the right way, but for the most part the smaller market teams will have no incentive to compete and the bigger market teams will dominate. Also, if OKC wins the title what will be the first thing that people talk about? Will it be can this team do it again or will it be how long will this team stay together?
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/198/471/ray_charles.jpg

tonyd3b54
06-08-2012, 07:27 PM
Really insightful responses guys!

I mean, I think it's a decent thread. The guy is articulating why he isn't rooting for the Heat, something that's a big topic today. They're the most polarizing team in recent memory. It's a huge narrative. We've heard a million reasons why, and this is slightly different...and much more well-thought out and thoroughly explained.

Maybe it's beating a dead horse, but the Heat are the biggest story in the NBA at this second...so yeah.

but hes saying something bad a bout lebron! surely this can not go unpunished. people must make stupid comments.

honestly i wish i was old enough to remember the the early portions of the 90s. im only 21 and started watching basketball around 9 years old, just in time to catch the end of the malone stockton era and see jason kidds nets and reggie millers pacers battle and a young pierce and antoine walker. but from what i do remember of these playoffs it was just a much better brand of basketball.

i dont like where the nba i going either, but luckily im a boston fan which is a big market and stern loves big markets so my team wont be horrible for long.

Corndog
06-08-2012, 07:55 PM
Thats not the HEAT problem, the raptors should have traded him.



Like Wade and Dirk :clap:



I can agree with this.

But If a player tells the owner i will not resign with you when my contract is up, and then that owner says, well OK, can we perform a side & trade with you so we can get some players back ( and of course they pitch to that player that he gets more money out of it too ).... What if that player says no thank you, is he instantly labeled a bad guy/whatever bad name you guys come up with.

Because I don't feel that that player should receive any hate from that fan base.

If he outright refuses to be traded, well yeah he should be labeled a bad guy, why would he? He wants to play for another team and a trade is the perfect way to go to another team and give your former employer a chance to atleast attempt to replace you. If you are saying he would refuse certain trades, that makes sense. In this situation, management and the player have to work together that makes both sides happy. It's managements job to work on trades that work for the player and team, it's the players job to communicate with the FO where he desires to go, so they can try to make something that works to make him happy. So it can also fall on the front office as well.

LBJ could have been traded to Miami for Beasley and/or even draft picks. If you are saying Lebron didn't want Miami gutted, that's ridiculous, they couldn't afford to keep Beasley and with him on the payroll it was more than obvious players had to be moved. Miami could refuse trades that would hurt future plans and trade players they planned on moving/not resigning. Not that it would have been an even trade and Cleveland fans would probably still hate Lebron, but overall his image would have been better and it would have been the right thing to do and Cleveland might not have fallen into the black hole that it did.

I guess this is the good part of the deal. While players are still trying to join "superteams" and aren't showing the loyalty once seen in this league, atleast they are handling it better. It seems like every star/key player this year that didn't want to resign atleast announced their intention and most got traded.

ManRam
06-08-2012, 08:16 PM
Players of every sport around the world outside u.s specially SOCCER players say ha ha ha to that statement.,

Sorry...players in a sport with 5 players playing at once have more power than a sport that plays 11 at once....

raiderposting
06-08-2012, 08:40 PM
personally I dont Believe he should even be a starter, a lot of people can do what he can do. I mean he give it his all for Cleveland for 7 WHOLE SEASONs, and carried them the entire time, he could of done that for at least 16 more seasons, then he could of gone to another team at the age of around like 41 for one last shot if he never won a title. He's selfish, they could of brought in a lot of free agents, WHO DOESN'T like Cleveland, one of the most beautiful cities in the world, not just the nation. Career averages of 27.6 ppg, 7.1 Rpg, and 6.9 apg, aren't that special. He's not even averaging 7 apg for his career, only 6.9. Lebron is a borderline top 50 player. If i had the choice to build around him or a real good guy like Mike Dunleavy it would defenitliy be dunleavy.

NBAFan2012
06-08-2012, 08:52 PM
by the way his performance would have been more exciting for me had the Celtics not been shooting like 10% the whole game and playing like if they just gave up after 5 mins

justinnum1
06-08-2012, 08:53 PM
by the way his performance would have been more exciting for me had the Celtics not been shooting like 10% the whole game and playing like if they just gave up after 5 mins

credit miami making the adjustments on defense with switching

JNoel
06-08-2012, 08:53 PM
Bulls, Spurs, Lakers, Celtics, Knicks and many more also have had super teams at some point, so Heat are not the first, I've never been a fan of them either, maybe league should lower cap

Hellcrooner
06-08-2012, 11:16 PM
Sorry...players in a sport with 5 players playing at once have more power than a sport that plays 11 at once....

soccer players decide WHERE they want to play from day 1 of their careers, and change teams as much times as they want, they dont even have to run their entire contracts before changing teams, just ofr teams to get a money arrangement.

THATS power.

THE MTL
06-09-2012, 01:46 AM
All im going say is the 90s as well as every decade had teams with multiple HOFer's on the team.

Jumi
06-09-2012, 03:45 AM
I actually like what the Heat did, minus all the premature title celebrations. If you really want to win, why waste your time with subpar talent around you. A good franchise will constantly surround their star player with enough talent to get the job done. Take a look at the Spurs, Thunder, Mavs, and Lakers. They all do it differently, but at the end of the day, the star goes into the season with the chance to be called "Champion" at the end of the season. The Amare trade was the example that shows the owner wasn't committed to winning long term. Shaq was to old to be a force for the future. Lebron needed talent that was at a resonable age to compete year end and year out. No mid season trades or quick fixes, but a strong team to compete for a title, not regular season win totals. I aint mad at the guy.

QueensG
06-09-2012, 04:36 AM
see that's why heat players along with their fans are hated here and will continue to be hated. This is a legitament thread and y'all are so quick to bash it like it carries no weight.

I Gave lebron props last game but im back hating. **** that. I hope they do beat the Celtics so the young boys can put an official *** whooping on the heat and Durant can tell lebron "don't talk about it be about it and kiss the mother****in ring"

naps
06-09-2012, 05:19 AM
Yeah, so you want players like LeBron to stay in Cleveland (And others for that matter) and end their careers like Malones, Ewings etc and be rated so low just because of not winning championships? Where does Karl Malone stand in all time now? Top 20 may be? Where would he be if he had say 3/4 rings? Easily top 10.

I bet deep down inside every non-winning all-time greats regrets and thinks if they could have done certain things differently. Pretty much every team that won multiple championships had balanced and brilliant rosters. Don't give that BS. Now if you can't build one in 7 years of trying then why the **** on earth a superstar would want to waste his prime? In the end of the day, championships mean a lot. I mean ****ing Kenny Smith takes a dump on Charles Barkley every chance he gets by pointing out how he has two rings and Charles has none. I mean are you kidding me? Who wants to be in Chuck's chair when he has options to not be.

LeBron, Bosh finished their contracts and were absolutely free to choose their destinations. They had no obligation whatsoever (emotional yea may be). They chose what they thought the best chance for themselves to win.

I bet you wouldn't make this thread if they went to your team. So stop being so pathetic. This has been discussed millions of times here already. Enjoy the playoffs and don't forget to throw a party when the Heat lose. Good luck with your wish.

Davidgta1
06-09-2012, 05:21 AM
Bulls, Spurs, Lakers, Celtics, Knicks and many more also have had super teams at some point, so Heat are not the first, I've never been a fan of them either, maybe league should lower cap

Ppl will always *****.

naps
06-09-2012, 05:41 AM
All im going say is the 90s as well as every decade had teams with multiple HOFer's on the team.

No but OP saw 90's ball so he knows better than you do...you know :rolleyes: LeBron can't HOFers is what he's saying regardless of what others have had because LeBron is not a human being.

****ing moronic excuses:facepalm:

Trueblue2
06-09-2012, 05:46 AM
First of all, I didn't create this thread to troll, but rather explain myself.

It's not being a bitter Lebron hater, it's hard to hate the guy when you watch him play. It's not necessarily what happened in Cleveland, but it has to do with it. There is another reason this situation left a bad taste in my mouth, it's what it meant to the NBA.

You see I grew up in the 90s and became a fan of basketball during that era. The era where it seemed like every, atleast most teams, had one star you could identify the organization with. These stars were not going anywhere and alot of them would retire with their team, if not atleast spend most of their prime with them. Even the small market teams had someone you could identify their organization with. The Supersonics had Shawn Kemp, the Golden State Warriors had Chris Mullen, and the Hornets had Muggsy Bogues. Some of these players did go onto other teams, but many stayed with them. The Bulls dominated the era, but there were still teams like the Utah Jazz led by Karl Malone, San Antonio with David Robinson, Houston with Hakeem Olajuwon, the Knicks with Patrick Ewing, the Pacers with Reggie Miller,even for a minute the Orlando Magic with Penny Hardaway and Shaq and of course the Suns with Charles Barkley. The talent was so spread out and it built interest across the league.

Don't get me wrong, the Heat certainly aren't the first team to build the so called "superteam", the Celtics were there before them. But they are the first team to do it with all of the players in their prime versus veteran players wanting to get a title before they retired.

The main reason I want them to fail, is I don't want the league to resort to this, I don't want the NBA to become MLB(actually worse) or the NFL before the salary cap. I don't want to see 5 or 6 superteams and the rest of the league doomed to fail. Sure there will probably still be teams like OKC that do it the right way, but for the most part the smaller market teams will have no incentive to compete and the bigger market teams will dominate. Also, if OKC wins the title what will be the first thing that people talk about? Will it be can this team do it again or will it be how long will this team stay together?


You realize most of those teams/stars you named had another all star player on the team right? And stars teaming up isn't a new thing, it happened on the regular in LA and boston, even Jordan's bulls had 2 Hall of famers on it (3 when Rodman was on the team) and better role players than Miami currently has. As we saw last year teaming up like that and having 3 players eat the majority of the cap has it's draw backs and it doesn't guarantee a championship. And Miami isn't a big basketball market, they just happen to have a genius named Pat Riley pulling strings for them. They're not doing it the "wrong way," they're opperating within the rules and salary cap to do whatever it takes to win a championship, if other teams can't do that it's on them. Did you have a problem with Magic and Kareem (and Worthy) being ont he same team? What about Jordan and Pippen? It's nothing new man.