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gustofer1
06-06-2012, 11:53 AM
What do you think our starting OF will look like by seasons end? Is Ells up for possible trade consideration? Leave comments about who you would like to see us end up with in CF/LF to make this team a viable playoff contender.

TragicallyHip
06-06-2012, 11:58 AM
By seasons end, I think you're looking at Crawford in LF, Ells in CF and a combo of Sweeny and Ross in RF.

gustofer1
06-06-2012, 12:07 PM
By seasons end, I think you're looking at Crawford in LF, Ells in CF and a combo of Sweeny and Ross in RF.

Is next year Ellsbury's last year of arb? I think we can ask for more this year at the deadline in exchange for Ells than next year, if that's the case.

gustofer1
06-06-2012, 12:19 PM
I see this article on the AZ GM blasting Upton, I am just really interested in seeing how much you guys think it would take to acquire him for Youk+. He's one guy I wouldn't mind seeing in a BRS uniform.

Boston-Born
06-06-2012, 12:31 PM
I see this article on the AZ GM blasting Upton, I am just really interested in seeing how much you guys think it would take to acquire him for Youk+. He's one guy I wouldn't mind seeing in a BRS uniform.

It would take a king's ransom. It would take Barnes + specsssssss. He is signed through 2015 at a reasonable contract. When he is on, he is elite.

gustofer1
06-06-2012, 12:38 PM
It would take a king's ransom. It would take Barnes + specsssssss. He is signed through 2015 at a reasonable contract. When he is on, he is elite.

Considering he is the bright spot on your squad, I would agree it's going to cost us if it were an option. I'm not interested in giving up the farm, though. I'm talking Youk + specs. Possibly even a pitcher like Buch or Bard privided we find a trade to replace them simultaneously, maybe a 3 team trade type situation. It's not really something the D-backs would be thinking about, but if it's an option I'd love to make it happen.

RedSoxtober
06-06-2012, 01:21 PM
It would take a king's ransom. It would take Barnes + specsssssss. He is signed through 2015 at a reasonable contract. When he is on, he is elite.

$9.75M and two seasons at just over $14M. I guess that's reasonable but not necessarily great. He's one of those guys that looks really intriguing but constantly leaves me wondering when/if he'll fill his potential. Currently in his fifth full time season and he's only had two seasons over 110 OPS+ and his k-rate is pretty high. I think we'd be buying on reputation.

BGeer091
06-06-2012, 08:06 PM
I would absolutely go after Upton. He's my favorite non Redsox player. I would give them a deal centered around Bard and specs.

An outfield of Crawford/ Ells/ Upton with Nava and Sweeney on the bench would be ridiculous.

Greenmonster24
06-06-2012, 10:00 PM
I think Ellsbury and Youkilis goes to one team and prospects go to Arizona and Upton to Redsox. I love Upton. I love to get Either and Upton in the Redsox outfield and get rid of Ellsbury who were going lose to free agency in a year and only had one great year and I not sure I want to pay him what he is worth based on his 2011 season when every other season he was never even close to that level. Crawford I just don't see working out. He will never hit more then 20 homers in a year and going get worse as his contract goes on where his first 2 years he soppose to be great and he hasn't and not made to play at fenway and can't find him a good place to hit in the lineup for what were paying him and were not taking advantage of his speed in the outfield in left with the short green monster.

GoldDustTwin
06-06-2012, 10:20 PM
$9.75M and two seasons at just over $14M. I guess that's reasonable but not necessarily great. He's one of those guys that looks really intriguing but constantly leaves me wondering when/if he'll fill his potential. Currently in his fifth full time season and he's only had two seasons over 110 OPS+ and his k-rate is pretty high. I think we'd be buying on reputation.

You're also buying on track record (2009 & 2011) and age. Those two 110 OPS+ season's he's had have come by the age of 24. His hand isn't fully well this season and he's struggling. Red Sox nation is currently salivating over Middlebrooks who is 27 games into his MLB career at the age of 23, for comparison's sake.

I just don't think Upton has the head to play in Boston - he has sulks and funks in Arizona.......Boston might send him into sub-Crawfordian depths.

Nomar
06-06-2012, 10:42 PM
Ells is probably headed to the Yankees unless we magically get rid of Crawford.

End of the year id want to see Crawford, Ellsbury, Ross/Kalish.

RedSoxtober
06-07-2012, 03:00 AM
You're also buying on track record (2009 & 2011) and age. Those two 110 OPS+ season's he's had have come by the age of 24. His hand isn't fully well this season and he's struggling. Red Sox nation is currently salivating over Middlebrooks who is 27 games into his MLB career at the age of 23, for comparison's sake.

I just don't think Upton has the head to play in Boston - he has sulks and funks in Arizona.......Boston might send him into sub-Crawfordian depths.

I understand his age and would buy that line of thought IF his production were more consistent. Honestly I'd rather see a gradual climb from 95 to 125 OPS+ than the peaks and valleys. His up-and-down performance suggests to me that he hasn't quite figured it all out.

I wouldn't complain if he landed in Fenway but I'd be worried if we pay the price that some suggest.

gustofer1
06-07-2012, 06:22 AM
Ells is probably headed to the Yankees unless we magically get rid of Crawford.

End of the year id want to see Crawford, Ellsbury, Ross/Kalish.

Where's Sweeney at? I'd rather have Sweeney in LF and get rid of Crawford than get rid of Ells, but Jacoby is much more marketable (even considering he's been on the DL a while) and I don't see anyone buying in on Crawford. We're trying to retool his throwing motion, I think to move him to CF where his range can be more useful and his fear of the Green Monster can disappear. I think we end up with a combination of Crawford/Sweeney/Ross/Nava/? (acquired via trade) and Ells is gone.

gustofer1
06-07-2012, 06:25 AM
I understand his age and would buy that line of thought IF his production were more consistent. Honestly I'd rather see a gradual climb from 95 to 125 OPS+ than the peaks and valleys. His up-and-down performance suggests to me that he hasn't quite figured it all out.

I wouldn't complain if he landed in Fenway but I'd be worried if we pay the price that some suggest.

Right now Bard+Youk+ a combo of b-/c+ specs don't seem like much to me. They'll probably want more considering Upton is about the only bat they have other than Drew since Reynolds is gone. They're not going to give him away, but from what I've seen our marketable pieces aren't tearing me apart if they're gone by the deadline. Trade Ells, Youk and Bard for Upton and a SP and I'd be happy no matter where we finish this year.

Boston-Born
06-07-2012, 08:58 AM
They won't trade Upton to fill a hole by creating another hole. If they trade Upton, it will be for all top specs, not a combo with Youk.

BGeer091
06-07-2012, 11:36 AM
Right now Bard+Youk+ a combo of b-/c+ specs don't seem like much to me. They'll probably want more considering Upton is about the only bat they have other than Drew since Reynolds is gone. They're not going to give him away, but from what I've seen our marketable pieces aren't tearing me apart if they're gone by the deadline. Trade Ells, Youk and Bard for Upton and a SP and I'd be happy no matter where we finish this year.

I think your looking at this from a deal perspective.

Youk/Bard/Kalish/2 specs for Upton and Saunders.

RedSoxtober
06-07-2012, 11:37 AM
They won't trade Upton to fill a hole by creating another hole. If they trade Upton, it will be for all top specs, not a combo with Youk.

+1. Even if they did, B-/C+ specs along with Youk and Bard probably doesn't get it done. They wanted something like 4-5 MLB-ready pieces when the considered moving him in a previous offseason. Even with a year of MLB time gone they'd probably want something very similar. Figure on dealing a Kalish/Jacobs/Bretnz type in that mix to replace Upton in their OF in the near future.

Dealing Bard + Youk + Kalish/Brentz/Jacobs + B-spec is buying high on his reputation IMO. Sort of like trading for Ellsbury right now.

BGeer091
06-07-2012, 12:50 PM
+1. Even if they did, B-/C+ specs along with Youk and Bard probably doesn't get it done. They wanted something like 4-5 MLB-ready pieces when the considered moving him in a previous offseason. Even with a year of MLB time gone they'd probably want something very similar. Figure on dealing a Kalish/Jacobs/Bretnz type in that mix to replace Upton in their OF in the near future.

Dealing Bard + Youk + Kalish/Brentz/Jacobs + B-spec is buying high on his reputation IMO. Sort of like trading for Ellsbury right now.

I would give them Bard/Youk/Kalish/Iggy and Jacobs

SirHizz
06-07-2012, 01:32 PM
Why would we trade Bard with his current form? Doesn't make sense to trade someone whose value is at an all-time low. Same with Buchholz. I could live with trading Clay if he gets it going over the next 5-6 starts

RedSoxtober
06-07-2012, 02:23 PM
I would give them Bard/Youk/Kalish/Iggy and Jacobs

Wow. I'd fire you. :rolleyes:

BGeer091
06-07-2012, 02:29 PM
Wow. I'd fire you. :rolleyes:

You think that's to much??

Wait nvm I didn't realize I didn't include Saunders. That is a deal i'd offer for Upton and Saunders.

RedSoxtober
06-07-2012, 02:31 PM
You think that's to much??

Wait nvm I didn't realize I didn't include Saunders. That is a deal i'd offer for Upton and Saunders.

That's probably more reasonable. I'm not sure that Saunders would be an asset in the AL East but at least the deal is more balanced.

BGeer091
06-07-2012, 02:40 PM
Considering this is an OF thread would anyone do a Zito for Crawford deal??

Boston-Born
06-07-2012, 08:20 PM
Looks like Byrd will be DFAed to make room for Dice

Nomar
06-08-2012, 12:35 AM
Where's Sweeney at? I'd rather have Sweeney in LF and get rid of Crawford than get rid of Ells, but Jacoby is much more marketable (even considering he's been on the DL a while) and I don't see anyone buying in on Crawford. We're trying to retool his throwing motion, I think to move him to CF where his range can be more useful and his fear of the Green Monster can disappear. I think we end up with a combination of Crawford/Sweeney/Ross/Nava/? (acquired via trade) and Ells is gone.

By the end of this year?

gustofer1
06-08-2012, 01:07 AM
By the end of this year?

Provided CC can return by the end of the year, then yes. I would trade Ellsbury now because the team acquiring him has him for more than half a season. Not sure if he can turn down arb after next season. On top of that I think you get more for him now than this winter/next summer because of that fact. If we move Jaco, I would be for moving Crawford to CF.

gustofer1
06-08-2012, 01:11 AM
They won't trade Upton to fill a hole by creating another hole. If they trade Upton, it will be for all top specs, not a combo with Youk.

I agree they will be creating a hole, so we would have to give them one of our OF prospects. What about Nava+Bard+Youk+specs? Although I am all for promoting Nava to be full time to fill in where injuries seem to be frequent, I wouldn't mind ending up with Upton in RF. I see him beeing Drew-esque for our club, where he can carry us for months at a time and would be a solid RFer in Fenway. If AZ has been scouting Youkilis, why not propose this if their GM is unhappy with the way Upton has been playing?

hdanb
06-08-2012, 09:52 AM
forget Upton, he's more trouble than he's worth besides the Redsox outfield will be Kalsih in right, Brenz in left and Elsberry in Center with Nava and Kroeger as 4th and 5th outfielders. The starters will give Boston 100 plus HRs and 350 RBIs a year plus 100 sbs. In 2014 Jackie Bradley will replace Els when he is a free agent. The Infield will be Middlebrooks at 3rd, Pedroia at 2nd A-gon at 1st and Jose Iglesias at ss. the catchers will be Salty and Lavernway. Papi will still be around. Avilas will be the backup infielder.

As great an offensive team this team is, it will be an even better defensive team. and all 9 positions will be very competitve for all-star berths.

gustofer1
06-08-2012, 10:17 AM
How do you plan on affording extending Ells (which we won't, we'll have to outbid the likes of the NYY) with Crawford and Lackey under contract? Nobody is going to buy Crawford off our hands and Ells is going to walk for 20+/yr if he reverts to his past slugging self when he returns. I'm all for Brentz and Kalish because they will be affordable at this point, but I see us trading Ells and Youk this year, acquiring King Felix and making a push for the playoffs.

goshhhjosh
06-08-2012, 11:16 AM
How do you plan on affording extending Ells (which we won't, we'll have to outbid the likes of the NYY) with Crawford and Lackey under contract? Nobody is going to buy Crawford off our hands and Ells is going to walk for 20+/yr if he reverts to his past slugging self when he returns. I'm all for Brentz and Kalish because they will be affordable at this point, but I see us trading Ells and Youk this year, acquiring King Felix and making a push for the playoffs.

Here's my $0.02. I don't think the Red Sox will trade Ellsbury this year. He's coming off a shoulder injury, hasn't played that much this year, and his value took a hit due to said shoulder injury. I say if they trade him they wait until the off season and hope that once he comes back from injury that he rakes.

Felix Hernandez would cost a crap-ton as far as prospects, something I personally don't want to see occur. The Red Sox dealt three top prospects for Gonzalez (Rizzo, Fuentes, and Kelly.) I would just like to hang on to the kids and see how they develop.

BGeer091
06-08-2012, 11:33 AM
forget Upton, he's more trouble than he's worth besides the Redsox outfield will be Kalsih in right, Brenz in left and Elsberry in Center with Nava and Kroeger as 4th and 5th outfielders. The starters will give Boston 100 plus HRs and 350 RBIs a year plus 100 sbs. In 2014 Jackie Bradley will replace Els when he is a free agent. The Infield will be Middlebrooks at 3rd, Pedroia at 2nd A-gon at 1st and Jose Iglesias at ss. the catchers will be Salty and Lavernway. Papi will still be around. Avilas will be the backup infielder.

As great an offensive team this team is, it will be an even better defensive team. and all 9 positions will be very competitve for all-star berths.

Umm those are some crazy predictions. Basically your saying that Els/Kalish/and Brentz will be 33+/33+ guys while driving in 117 runs a year?? Well I could certainly hope your right because that would be the greatest OF of all time. Unfortunately that is probably not going to happen. I would say a less then 10% chance of happening.

gustofer1
06-08-2012, 01:15 PM
Umm those are some crazy predictions. Basically your saying that Els/Kalish/and Brentz will be 33+/33+ guys while driving in 117 runs a year?? Well I could certainly hope your right because that would be the greatest OF of all time. Unfortunately that is probably not going to happen. I would say a less then 10% chance of happening.

I took it with a grain of salt. After 2013 there is no chance Ells is in a Sox uni, and what are the odds that both Kalish and Brentz will be full time MLB players before then?

And goshjosh I agree with you, Felix will cost us a pretty penny and I don't want to give up all our homegrown talent. If you read up on the GM thread about 3 or 4 weeks back, I figured we would trade Youk+Beckett to a team like Washington for specs+ a few BP arms (which we are in dire need of). With a combination of those prospects + the likes of Iggy, Buch/Bard and a few B/B+ specs I think a deal could get done for Felix. Provided Seattle is completely out of the West by mid-July, which I believe they will be. If we can make this all happen simultaneously, I think we should.

As far as trading Jaco goes, sooner the better imo. If he comes back this month and puts together a good 6 weeks, I wouldn't mind seeing him gone this July. We have acquired so much OFers this year, and some of them have produced, that I think we could live without him provided we get a descent return. Your twopence is greatly appreciated :)

tonyd3b54
06-08-2012, 02:16 PM
i would not trade ellsbury. the sox have no1 else capable of leading off. crawford has statistically been proven to be at his worst in the lead off, pedroia is best batting second, so who do you put there. ellsburys opb has shown steady improvement every healthy year hes had in the league increasing from 336 to 355 to 376 last year. so why would we trade him when he could be our lead off guy for the next 7 years? these guys are not easy to find..

Crucis
06-08-2012, 03:08 PM
i would not trade ellsbury. the sox have no1 else capable of leading off. crawford has statistically been proven to be at his worst in the lead off, pedroia is best batting second, so who do you put there. ellsburys opb has shown steady improvement every healthy year hes had in the league increasing from 336 to 355 to 376 last year. so why would we trade him when he could be our lead off guy for the next 7 years? these guys are not easy to find..

Why would the Sox consider trading Ellsbury? Maybe because they might not feel that they can get him to re-sign with the team after he hits free agency, or that they cannot afford to re-sign him. And given that the Sox signed Crawford for $20M+/yr, does anyone not think that Boras is going to be looking for similar money for Ellsbury?

As for not having anyone who capable of leading off, I'm not so sure that that's true. I suspect that the Sox would find a way to fill the leadoff spot if Ells was no longer around. Frankly, Nava seems to have done a nice job leading off of late. It's hard to complain about a leadoff hitter who has an OBP above .400 (.445 to be exact). Of course, that's not likely to last, and I don't think that the Sox see Nava as any sort of long term solution in the OF. Still, I think that they'll manage.

gustofer1
06-08-2012, 03:12 PM
i would not trade ellsbury. the sox have no1 else capable of leading off. crawford has statistically been proven to be at his worst in the lead off, pedroia is best batting second, so who do you put there. ellsburys opb has shown steady improvement every healthy year hes had in the league increasing from 336 to 355 to 376 last year. so why would we trade him when he could be our lead off guy for the next 7 years? these guys are not easy to find..

You're talking as if we can afford to have Crawford and Ellsbury in the same OF with guys like Beckett, Youk, Ortiz, Lackey, Crawford etc. on the payroll. We're not extending him and we're not outbidding a team like the Yanks to keep him.

A reasonable, yet most definite downgrade for the leadoff spot imo would be Sweeney. He's an OBP kinda guy, with doubles power and a guy who grinds out at-bats moreso than Jaco. He won't hit 20-25 HR's and won't steal 40+ bases a year, but if you just want a guy who gets on consistently, he's your man.

A more short-term option is Podsednik. We've also hit Aviles lead-off with reasonable, albeit not-so-large sample size success. There's options on this squad now, and for the future. I see Ells being moved for pitching, if the right deal is available. By next year (late Feb-July) it will be too late, this is the year to do it provided he has a good enough return to revitalize his trade value.

Crucis
06-08-2012, 03:21 PM
You're talking as if we can afford to have Crawford and Ellsbury in the same OF with guys like Beckett, Youk, Ortiz, Lackey, Crawford etc. on the payroll. We're not extending him and we're not outbidding a team like the Yanks to keep him.

I have to agree. I just don't see the Sox having 2 $~20M/yr players in their OF, nor do I think that they could afford it without letting go of some of their other expensive players. I suppose that the Sox could let Youk and Ortiz walk after the season, since their contracts will both expire, but I can see the Sox maybe wanting to keep Ortiz around if he keeps on producing. (For all the arguments in favor of having more flexibility at the DH position, it's hard to argue against a DH who puts up numbers like Ortiz has the past year and a half.)




A reasonable, yet most definite downgrade for the leadoff spot imo would be Sweeney. He's an OBP kinda guy, with doubles power and a guy who grinds out at-bats moreso than Jaco. He won't hit 20-25 HR's and won't steal 40+ bases a year, but if you just want a guy who gets on consistently, he's your man.

A more short-term option is Podsednik. We've also hit Aviles lead-off with reasonable, albeit not-so-large sample size success. There's options on this squad now, and for the future. I see Ells being moved for pitching, if the right deal is available. By next year (late Feb-July) it will be too late, this is the year to do it provided he has a good enough return to revitalize his trade value.

I think that the problem with Sweeney is that he's seen as a platoon player. Podsenik is a nice short term option. And Nava might be as well if he somehow manages to keep producing.