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View Full Version : It's not Lebron's fault.



TylerSL
06-06-2012, 10:51 AM
Its not Lebron's fault the Heat will lose. They have just missed their chances. Mario Chalmers and Shane Battier miss WIDE OPEN 3's all game, James Jones dribbles (he is the worst dribbler), Mike Miller doesnt get to play enough, Haslem does his part, but when only 1 role player is contributing all game its not going to end well. In the series, Wade scores 6 points in the first half so Miami gets down 15 early, and have to spend all that energy getting back into the game, and are even more tired than Boston down the strech cuz they run up big deficits. O yea, and Chris Bosh is hurt. Lebron is averaging 32/10/5 in this series. I mean, this is why he left Cleveland.

Before everybody jumps in and shouts EXCUSE lets me say this. "The dog eating my homework" is an excuse, such as "Miami is too tired cuz they used up too much energy against Indiana". That would be an excuse. Lebron's situation is more like, "I got hit by a car, thats why I wasnt in school" or in this case, the guy that opens the floor for him and Wade and is their only post presence has played 15 minutes in this series, no role players other than Udonis Haslem has consistently contributed, and Wade plays aweful at the start so Miami gets down big early. One guy cant do it alone, or in this case 2.5 (Lebron and Haslem, and Wade in the second half) Thats not an excuse, thats a reason.

GOON MUSIC
06-06-2012, 10:55 AM
LeBron needs to average 45ppg

NSJ
06-06-2012, 10:55 AM
He's not to blame in the least bit? Not even a little?

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 10:56 AM
LeBron needs to average 45ppg

sadly, but for Miami to win, this is close to being true :pity:

GOON MUSIC
06-06-2012, 10:56 AM
So he's gonna have to score like 60 these next two games

haggis
06-06-2012, 10:56 AM
:laugh2:

Dark Donnie
06-06-2012, 10:58 AM
No one has blamed Lebron

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 10:58 AM
He's not to blame in the least bit? Not even a little?

what more do you want from him? He is averaging 32/10/5 and his assits would be up if it werent for Chalmers and Battier missing wide open 3's all game. He is easily been the best player this series all while anchoring the defense.

MoBASS
06-06-2012, 11:01 AM
"go to the grocery store and they ain't got no milk, you blame it on LeBron"

jp611
06-06-2012, 11:01 AM
Apologists in full effect... It's never lebrons fault for his failures, always someone else to blame

GiantsSwaGG
06-06-2012, 11:02 AM
Who cares?

Meaze_Gibson
06-06-2012, 11:04 AM
what more do you want from him? He is averaging 32/10/5 and his assits would be up if it werent for Chalmers and Battier missing wide open 3's all game. He is easily been the best player this series all while anchoring the defense.

As a Heat fan myself bruh, It is both Lebron and Wade's fault. Had the leaders of our team been able to shoot freethrows at a better rate we wouldve been up 3-2 now. If the leaders of our team continue to pass out when Rondo is guarding them in the post we will lose this series. If the leaders of our team continue to shoot mid range percentages below their average we will lose. Only way he escapes blame is if he plays near perfectly. He has not played near perfect so criticism should be welcome.

Kenny Powders
06-06-2012, 11:06 AM
:cry:

Rego247
06-06-2012, 11:07 AM
Heat Forum for **** sake.

bucketss
06-06-2012, 11:08 AM
Apologists in full effect... It's never lebrons fault for his failures, always someone else to blame

who took the blame for last years finals loss? 100% of the blame?


:facepalm:

BigBlueCrew
06-06-2012, 11:10 AM
Is it ever his fault?

NSJ
06-06-2012, 11:12 AM
what more do you want from him? He is averaging 32/10/5 and his assits would be up if it werent for Chalmers and Battier missing wide open 3's all game. He is easily been the best player this series all while anchoring the defense.

I'd want the best player in the world to play like it when the game comes to an end. His 32/10/5 doesn't mean **** when he does nothing down the stretch to finish the game. Greatness is defined by winning, not what kind of numbers you can post while losing. He has the ability to put the team on his back and he has yet to do so as a member of the heat.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
06-06-2012, 11:12 AM
lebron needs more help.

Wade is washed up, bosh is soft.

Longhornfan1234
06-06-2012, 11:13 AM
I love King James...............but:


LeBron's stats in the last 5min of each game plus overtimes this series:

Game 1: 3pts, 0asts, 2rbs, 1-2fg, 1-2ft
Game 2: 6pts, 0asts, 1rb, 0-3fg, 6-6ft
Game 2 OT: 4pts, 1ast, 3rbs, 1-1fg, 2-4ft
Game 3: 0pts, 0asts, 0rbs, 0-2fg, 0-0ft, 1 to
Game 4: 4pts, 0asts, 0rbs, 1-3fg, 1-2ft (played 4min)
Game 4 OT: 0pts, 0asts, 0rbs, 0-2fg, 0-0ft, 1to (played 3min)
Game 5: 2pts, 0asts, 1rb, 1-3fg, 0-0ft


4-16

This is not acceptable.


Wade is playing like a complete scrub for 3.5 quarters is not acceptable. How can Wade do this to LeBron?

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 11:14 AM
As a Heat fan myself bruh, It is both Lebron and Wade's fault. Had the leaders of our team been able to shoot freethrows at a better rate we wouldve been up 3-2 now. If the leaders of our team continue to pass out when Rondo is guarding them in the post we will lose this series. If the leaders of our team continue to shoot mid range percentages below their average we will lose. Only way he escapes blame is if he plays near perfectly. He has not played near perfect so criticism should be welcome.

ur right on the FT's I'l give you that. I call Miami the worst Free Throw shooting team in the league cuz its astounding how bad they are at it. But Lebron is shooting over 50% for the series. And dont get me wrong with this thread, he has not played perfect and he has done some questionable things at times (18 foot jumper against Rondo). But they arent losing cuz of Lebron, thats all I meant. They will lose cuz most players arent doing a damn thing.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
06-06-2012, 11:14 AM
I love King James...............but:


LeBron's stats in the last 5min of each game plus overtimes this series:

Game 1: 3pts, 0asts, 2rbs, 1-2fg, 1-2ft
Game 2: 6pts, 0asts, 1rb, 0-3fg, 6-6ft
Game 2 OT: 4pts, 1ast, 3rbs, 1-1fg, 2-4ft
Game 3: 0pts, 0asts, 0rbs, 0-2fg, 0-0ft, 1 to
Game 4: 4pts, 0asts, 0rbs, 1-3fg, 1-2ft (played 4min)
Game 4 OT: 0pts, 0asts, 0rbs, 0-2fg, 0-0ft, 1to (played 3min)
Game 5: 2pts, 0asts, 1rb, 1-3fg, 0-0ft


4-16

This is not acceptable.


Wade is playing like a complete scrub for 3.5 quarters is not acceptable. How can Wade do this to LeBron?

and people still think lebron is clutch:laugh:

This guy has no clutch gene

h2r09
06-06-2012, 11:16 AM
this year it is absolutely 100% not lebrons fault. he has had one of the best seasons I've ever seen from start to finish. rarely had a bad game.

this year is solely on wade and the bench. Wade has been injured every other game, doesnt run back on defense, and doesnt shoot well enough to play well with lebron when they aren't in sync.

The bench has to be shaken up. we need a pg like nash who is actually able to pass and keep the offense moving. Chalmers is a good combo guard off the bench but his passing abilities kill the team on offense. Little things like not hitting lebron and wade exactly where they need a pass kills the team.

RaiderLakersA's
06-06-2012, 11:16 AM
Time for a reality check: As long as LeBron is either 1 or 1a/1b, blame for failure will always fall on his shoulders. That's the nature of the beast. It comes with being the franchise superstar. You get all of the credit in victory and all of the blame in defeat, whether it's true or not. I'm sure he knows this and accepts it.

I realize that he may get additional heat (sorry, pun) because of how he handled his free agency, but until he wins a championship the criticism is deserved. It's how all great swords are made. Extremely high temps and getting the hell beat out of you in order to shape you into form.

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 11:17 AM
I'd want the best player in the world to play like it when the game comes to an end. His 32/10/5 doesn't mean **** when he does nothing down the stretch to finish the game. Greatness is defined by winning, not what kind of numbers you can post while losing. He has the ability to put the team on his back and he has yet to do so as a member of the heat.

I see what your saying and I agree, Lebron is not a closer. But thats just like Magic right? Lebron needs to have the ball in his hands for the last play, but maybe pass it to Wade with 2 seconds left or something. Nobody wanted Magic taking the last shot, but maybe getting somebody open for them. To me Lebron is the same way, although he doesnt always do that. Lebron isnt a closer, but throughout the game, he is the best player.

BigBlueCrew
06-06-2012, 11:19 AM
this year it is absolutely 100% not lebrons fault. he has had one of the best seasons I've ever seen from start to finish. rarely had a bad game.

this year is solely on wade and the bench. Wade has been injured every other game, doesnt run back on defense, and doesnt shoot well enough to play well with lebron when they aren't in sync.

The bench has to be shaken up. we need a pg like nash who is actually able to pass and keep the offense moving. Chalmers is a good combo guard off the bench but his passing abilities kill the team on offense. Little things like not hitting lebron and wade exactly where they need a pass kills the team.

So he left Cleveland and came to Miami to get better role players? Is that what your saying? Hmmm interesting

RaiderLakersA's
06-06-2012, 11:19 AM
I see what your saying and I agree, Lebron is not a closer. But thats just like Magic right? Lebron needs to have the ball in his hands for the last play, but maybe pass it to Wade with 2 seconds left or something. Nobody wanted Magic taking the last shot, but maybe getting somebody open for them. To me Lebron is the same way, although he doesnt always do that. Lebron isnt a closer, but throughout the game, he is the best player.

Which Magic are you referring to????

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 11:20 AM
Which Magic are you referring to????

Johnson

Holydiver
06-06-2012, 11:21 AM
the grass is always greener on the other side right Lebron?

Cleveland 2.0

Raps18-19 Champ
06-06-2012, 11:23 AM
Apologists in full effect... It's never lebrons fault for his failures, always someone else to blame

While you mock it, that's actually the case for these playoffs.

h2r09
06-06-2012, 11:23 AM
So he left Cleveland and came to Miami to get better role players? Is that what your saying? Hmmm interesting

he came for a better chance to win a ring. He still has a much better chance doing that here than he did there. WE are still in this series, its not over yet. But there are thing riley can do to improve the team. The bench has been a disaster the last 2 years because we have no pg or center. Nash would help a ridiculous amount but we need consistent 3 point shooters. you can't win like this with no help from the bench.

NSJ
06-06-2012, 11:23 AM
I see what your saying and I agree, Lebron is not a closer. But thats just like Magic right? Lebron needs to have the ball in his hands for the last play, but maybe pass it to Wade with 2 seconds left or something. Nobody wanted Magic taking the last shot, but maybe getting somebody open for them. To me Lebron is the same way, although he doesnt always do that. Lebron isnt a closer, but throughout the game, he is the best player.

That's the thing with wade, he's the type of guy that I think needs to create his own shot. So in a sense these two do not compliment each other at all when the games on the line and they're forced to take a lat shot. Regardless, they need to make some changes to their game when there's 5 minutes left, or maybe that's their problem, they should play the same ball they play for the other 43 minutes down th stretch.

shep33
06-06-2012, 11:24 AM
I have two problems with LBJ, who is the best player on the planet:

1. Free throw shooting. Add Wade into this category too
2. He settles way too much for perimeter shots, even when he has a huge mismatch

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 11:25 AM
he came for a better chance to win a ring. He still has a much better chance doing that here than he did there. WE are still in this series, its not over yet. But there are thing riley can do to improve the team. The bench has been a disaster the last 2 years because we have no pg or center. Nash would help a ridiculous amount but we need consistent 3 point shooters. you can't win like this with no help from the bench.

first of all yes this series is over, can you honestly tell me that KG, Paul Peirce, Ray Allen, Rajon Rondo, and Doc Rivers are going to drop a close out game at home no less? No way that happens. If Miami could win Game 5, they may have got game 6, and if not game 7 at home. But no way Boston chokes away their last home game when the can close out the series. Also I think Nash would start.

k.smith904
06-06-2012, 11:26 AM
Lebron is Lebron.

He played his *** off, but deferred to his sorry *** teammates late in the 4th.

Baller1
06-06-2012, 11:29 AM
It's not Lebron's fault, but people will make it his fault.

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 11:30 AM
I have two problems with LBJ, who is the best player on the planet:

1. Free throw shooting. Add Wade into this category too
2. He settles way too much for perimeter shots, even when he has a huge mismatch

I agree, I said it in this thread, I call the Heat the worst free throw shooting team in the league cuz its amazing how bad they are at it. He does settle too much, so if you want to call that blame I would agree with it. But IMO thats not why they are losing, they get themselves in big deficits early, miss tons of FT's (you can put Lebron in this catagory), and miss wide open 3's all game long.

Weezy
06-06-2012, 11:30 AM
LBJ has been doing great but he just isnt clutch at all. The defense pressures him but he isn't being aggressive enough during the end of these games. Seems like fatigue is kicking in big time for him....he is human.

At the end of the day, he is the #2 scapegoat behind Spo.

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 11:31 AM
That's the thing with wade, he's the type of guy that I think needs to create his own shot. So in a sense these two do not compliment each other at all when the games on the line and they're forced to take a lat shot. Regardless, they need to make some changes to their game when there's 5 minutes left, or maybe that's their problem, they should play the same ball they play for the other 43 minutes down th stretch.

I can agree with you, which I why I will say in the future, set Bosh up for the final shot, much like Game 3 of the Finals last year.

Oldmantrash
06-06-2012, 11:33 AM
Dear Lebron James excuse makers

Lebron is a freak of nature, the most physically gifted player to step on a basketball court. He is a great player, but he is not an all time great yet.
Not until he shows he can close games when it counts the most.
He is not in my top 5 of guys in the league I want with the ball in my hand at the end of a crucial game.

I know he has closed games before, but not consistently, and not when it counted the most.

Keep blaming the coach, or the role players.

An all time great would take in on themselves to will them to victory.

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 11:34 AM
LBJ has been doing great but he just isnt clutch at all. The defense pressures him but he isn't being aggressive enough during the end of these games. Seems like fatigue is kicking in big time for him....he is human.

At the end of the day, he is the #2 scapegoat behind Spo.

I am one of the few Heat fans that likes Spoelstra, but I dont know if he should go or not. I mean, how can you not play Bosh down the strech. You have to at least get him out on the floor, regardless of whether or not he is contributing, he is Chris Bosh. 2 years without a title, I think its panic time. I dont know if you blow up the big 3 yet, but something has to change.

shep33
06-06-2012, 11:34 AM
I agree, I said it in this thread, I call the Heat the worst free throw shooting team in the league cuz its amazing how bad they are at it. He does settle too much, so if you want to call that blame I would agree with it. But IMO thats not why they are losing, they get themselves in big deficits early, miss tons of FT's (you can put Lebron in this catagory), and miss wide open 3's all game long.

I'm with you TylerSL. I'm not blaming LBJ for the Heat's struggle. He's the biggest reason why they've made it this far, and he's easily the best player on his team.

DJYankee
06-06-2012, 11:34 AM
Yup because his 1 FG after the 8.10 mark doesn't exist. Come on man!

RaiderLakersA's
06-06-2012, 11:35 AM
Johnson

The team grew to be much more comfortable with Magic having the ball in his hands later in his career.

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 11:37 AM
Dear Lebron James excuse makers

Lebron is a freak of nature, the most physically gifted player to step on a basketball court. He is a great player, but he is not an all time great yet.
Not until he shows he can close games when it counts the most.
He is not in my top 5 of guys in the league I want with the ball in my hand at the end of a crucial game.

I know he has closed games before, but not consistently, and not when it counted the most.

Keep blaming the coach, or the role players.

An all time great would take in on themselves to will them to victory.

ok, Lebron isnt a closer, but Magic Johnson was the same way. Magic was bad when he took the last shot. I think Lebron is the same, get the ball in Lebrons hands and get somebody open. Thats what I think needs to happen. When the triple team comes find Bosh, if Wade moves off the ball make those sweet back door passes he always makes in those situations.

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 11:38 AM
The team grew to be much more comfortable with Magic having the ball in his hands later in his career.

Same could be said for Lebron in 5 years, but were not there yet.

celtNYpatsHeels
06-06-2012, 11:38 AM
Hmmm so its about Lebron's teammates again???? HE PICKED THIS SITUATION

Weezy
06-06-2012, 11:39 AM
I am one of the few Heat fans that likes Spoelstra, but I dont know if he should go or not. I mean, how can you not play Bosh down the strech. You have to at least get him out on the floor, regardless of whether or not he is contributing, he is Chris Bosh. 2 years without a title, I think its panic time. I dont know if you blow up the big 3 yet, but something has to change.

Spo will be fired before the Big 3 will be broken up IMO. So I don't see you guys making any roster changes with a new coach. You guys have 3 top 15 players.................

willabeast77
06-06-2012, 11:41 AM
The Game 5 loss wasn't because of LeBron. He played good enough, though he could have done more in the 4th again.

sep11ie
06-06-2012, 11:42 AM
I like his line: "we played good enough to win, that's all you can ask for". Is that how a "King" would talk?

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 11:46 AM
I like his line: "we played good enough to win, that's all you can ask for". Is that how a "King" would talk?

I have a problem with this as well, cuz they didnt play well enough to win. 15 turnovers, 6 missed FT's, 39% from the floor, and 7-26 from deep says otherwise......

jp611
06-06-2012, 11:46 AM
Lol... Remember when Lebron said once they step on the floor it's gonna be easy and that it'll be so easy that Pat Riley could play with them... What a joke... Mental midget

THE GIPPER
06-06-2012, 11:47 AM
2 straight wins and nobody will even remember this thread or any of the other Heat threads created in the last 12 hours. The series isnt even close to over yet.

RaiderLakersA's
06-06-2012, 11:48 AM
The Game 5 loss wasn't because of LeBron. He played good enough, though he could have done more in the 4th again.

He pretty much disappeared in the 4th in terms of stats that matter.

But this is why the folks who say that Kobe didn't do crap in game 7 of the 2010 Finals are so wrong. Your superstar has to do anything and everything - lie, borrow, cheat, and steal, if necessary -- when it counts most. He has to show up.

LeBron has to put his imprint on the game in the closing minutes. He's going to catch hell either way, might as well go down kicking and clawing until the very end.

gaughan333
06-06-2012, 11:49 AM
Anyone see the ref tell lebron to stop complaining last night? I was on the floor laughing at him

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 11:50 AM
2 straight wins and nobody will even remember this thread or any of the other Heat threads created in the last 12 hours. The series isnt even close to over yet.

I'd love to agree, but I cant see Doc, KG, Allen, Peirce, and Rondo drop a closeout game at home. If they do, I will personally apologize for waving the white flag, but I dont see it happening, no.

YankeesR#2
06-06-2012, 11:50 AM
One thing you have to remember is that when you have three stars there's that much less money to pay for the rest of the team's salaries.

As a result their bench players are not going to be the same quality of another team that has more money to spend. The same thing happened to the Celtics when they tried to sign David West. They didn't have the money available that the Pacers did so he went there.

The reason it is his fault is because both he and Wade cannot shoot foul shots. If they shot at the same rate of the Celtics this series would already be over.

tcav701
06-06-2012, 11:51 AM
Look at the final 8 minutes and tell me the best player in the nba showed up.

RaiderLakersA's
06-06-2012, 11:51 AM
2 straight wins and nobody will even remember this thread or any of the other Heat threads created in the last 12 hours. The series isnt even close to over yet.

2 wins and forget this thread? You're right, but it will be 1 win for each team...and there will be tons of threads about how Miami failed to make it back to the Finals after that.

I think the C's have one more win in them. They might get blown out when they get to the Finals, but they have enough in the tank for Miami, with two games to get it done. This is worse case scenario for Heat fans.

joeystats
06-06-2012, 11:53 AM
2 of 7 fg's last 2 min of the 4th this series
1 of 3 fg's in the two overtimes this series combined
3 of 9 fg's combined

so 2 minutes times 5 games = 10 min
two overtimes= 10 minutes

the 20 most important minutes of this series he has only made 3 fg's

just sayin, it's not how you start it's how you finish

ghettosean
06-06-2012, 11:56 AM
what more do you want from him? he is averaging 32/10/5 and his assits would be up if it werent for chalmers and battier missing wide open 3's all game. He is easily been the best player this series all while anchoring the defense.

leadership

ghettosean
06-06-2012, 11:57 AM
Look at the final 8 minutes and tell me the best player in the nba showed up.
This

THE GIPPER
06-06-2012, 11:58 AM
2 wins and forget this thread? You're right, but it will be 1 win for each team...and there will be tons of threads about how Miami failed to make it back to the Finals after that.

I think the C's have one more win in them. They might get blown out when they get to the Finals, but they have enough in the tank for Miami, with two games to get it done. This is worse case scenario for Heat fans.

Personally, I just cant see Boston beating Miami 4 games in a row. I think Miami takes game 6 and then game 7 could go either way. It will depend on if Wade, Bosh, and the rest of the Heat players not named Lebron show up or not.

MTL_123
06-06-2012, 12:00 PM
Lol... Remember when Lebron said once they step on the floor it's gonna be easy and that it'll be so easy that Pat Riley could play with them... What a joke... Mental midget

oh shut the **** up remember wen rose and boozer said they see themselfs winning multiple championships but then got knocked out in the first round:facepalm:

dh144498
06-06-2012, 12:01 PM
Lebron shouldn't deserve all the blame. But since he's the MVP and the best player in the league, he does, mainly for his inability to come up big under pressure. This is what i've observed so far: Wade doesn't show in the first half (going 1-7 or worse), then comes huge in the second, eventually having a better shooting efficiency than lebron, who started off 8-12 then ends up 11-25.
These two are essentially playing as ONE player. Since they both are complementing each other's no-shows. Of course, the rest of the Heat need to step up, and the coaching.......

MTL_123
06-06-2012, 12:01 PM
If miami loses this series Lebron has to get some blame. Wade should get most of the blame tho

Oldmantrash
06-06-2012, 12:02 PM
Everyone knows Lebron James is a great player.

He can't be considered an all time great until he starts taking over in the 4th quarter consistantly.

He has his Scottie pippen, now prove the eliteness.

These excuses for him are sickening

HowBoutDemBulls
06-06-2012, 12:02 PM
Yeah it is Lebron's fault. This is the situation that HE picked. He thought he could skip ahead to a championship and not do any work by teaming with the 2 other "top 10" players. He is a moron who doesnt think basketball is a team game. He thought he could team up witht two good players and win not 1 , not 2, etc championships. He could have signed with 2 or 3 other teams but he chose to the Heat. He is a coward and not a winner, he has no clutch gene at all. He will never be in the discussion with any of the all time greats. I love it that the Heat are failing becuase of the arrogance of their fans and players. If they never win a ship it would be the best possible story for the NBA. Big ego divas who get everything handed to team should get stomped by chemistry and desire each time.

RaiderLakersA's
06-06-2012, 12:05 PM
Personally, I just cant see Boston beating Miami 4 games in a row. I think Miami takes game 6 and then game 7 could go either way. It will depend on if Wade, Bosh, and the rest of the Heat players not named Lebron show up or not.

At this point, my money rides with the Celtics. As a Lakers fan, I hate saying that, believe me, but I know their mettle. Miami will survive game 6, but The Leprechauns will take game 7 and move on.

gaughan333
06-06-2012, 12:06 PM
oh shut the **** up remember wen rose and boozer said they see themselfs winning multiple championships but then got knocked out in the first round:facepalm:

But did they hold a parade in which they declared they'd win 7?

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 12:07 PM
Yeah it is Lebron's fault. This is the situation that HE picked. He thought he could skip ahead to a championship and not do any work by teaming with the 2 other "top 10" players. He is a moron who doesnt think basketball is a team game. He thought he could team up witht two good players and win not 1 , not 2, etc championships. He could have signed with 2 or 3 other teams but he chose to the Heat. He is a coward and not a winner, he has no clutch gene at all. He will never be in the discussion with any of the all time greats. I love it that the Heat are failing becuase of the arrogance of their fans and players. If they never win a ship it would be the best possible story for the NBA. Big ego divas who get everything handed to team should get stomped by chemistry and desire each time.

great post. :rolleyes:

gaughan333
06-06-2012, 12:08 PM
Yeah it is Lebron's fault. This is the situation that HE picked. He thought he could skip ahead to a championship and not do any work by teaming with the 2 other "top 10" players. He is a moron who doesnt think basketball is a team game. He thought he could team up witht two good players and win not 1 , not 2, etc championships. He could have signed with 2 or 3 other teams but he chose to the Heat. He is a coward and not a winner, he has no clutch gene at all. He will never be in the discussion with any of the all time greats. I love it that the Heat are failing becuase of the arrogance of their fans and players. If they never win a ship it would be the best possible story for the NBA. Big ego divas who get everything handed to team should get stomped by chemistry and desire each time.

I really agree with this. Watching the heat fail gives me hope that the best players wont just flock to 4 cities to play with each other.

BALLER R
06-06-2012, 12:09 PM
Yes it is Lebron's fault. stop making excuses for this guy. First its he needs a star to play with. He ends up with 2 and still can't get it done. But the reason I say it's his fault is because he isn't a leader. He claim it's his team so why isn't he going after wade. Lebron and wade take too many defensive plays off and that is why they lost last night. How many time did you see boston come down the court on 5-4 or 5-3 because wade and bron are walking back up the court. Lebron needs to be a leader and tell his team that he will not allow that.

Corndog
06-06-2012, 12:10 PM
Its not Lebron's fault the Heat will lose. They have just missed their chances. Mario Chalmers and Shane Battier miss WIDE OPEN 3's all game, James Jones dribbles (he is the worst dribbler), Mike Miller doesnt get to play enough, Haslem does his part, but when only 1 role player is contributing all game its not going to end well. In the series, Wade scores 6 points in the first half so Miami gets down 15 early, and have to spend all that energy getting back into the game, and are even more tired than Boston down the strech cuz they run up big deficits. O yea, and Chris Bosh is hurt. Lebron is averaging 32/10/5 in this series. I mean, this is why he left Cleveland.

Before everybody jumps in and shouts EXCUSE lets me say this. "The dog eating my homework" is an excuse, such as "Miami is too tired cuz they used up too much energy against Indiana". That would be an excuse. Lebron's situation is more like, "I got hit by a car, thats why I wasnt in school" or in this case, the guy that opens the floor for him and Wade and is their only post presence has played 15 minutes in this series, no role players other than Udonis Haslem has consistently contributed, and Wade plays aweful at the start so Miami gets down big early. One guy cant do it alone, or in this case 2.5 (Lebron and Haslem, and Wade in the second half) Thats not an excuse, thats a reason.

I agree, 100%, I can't stand LeBron for being weak and going to a superstar team to win a title. But after watching him carry this team on his back against the Pacers, I still respect his ability and he is clearly the leader and most important/talented player on this team. While Wade plays in flashes and at times the ref calls are more important to him than playing the game. The thing is, this was the obvious problem with the team. I just thought, what if one of them gets injured? They don't have the depth on the bench and don't have any cap room for other players on this team. While they don't get the fame and credit, bench players are very important on a team in the playoffs. This team doesn't even have a consistent 4/5 player. I think it is becoming more than obvious, the big three doesn't work and having a complete team is what it takes to win a title.

ghettosean
06-06-2012, 12:12 PM
Yes it is Lebron's fault. stop making excuses for this guy. First its he needs a star to play with. He ends up with 2 and still can't get it done. But the reason I say it's his fault is because he isn't a leader. He claim it's his team so why isn't he going after wade. Lebron and wade take too many defensive plays off and that is why they lost last night. How many time did you see boston come down the court on 5-4 or 5-3 because wade and bron are walking back up the court. Lebron needs to be a leader and tell his team that he will not allow that.

Agreed!

bucketss
06-06-2012, 12:16 PM
Lol... Remember when Lebron said once they step on the floor it's gonna be easy and that it'll be so easy that Pat Riley could play with them... What a joke... Mental midget

remember when rose said he will win mulitple championships?

THE GIPPER
06-06-2012, 12:17 PM
At this point, my money rides with the Celtics. As a Lakers fan, I hate saying that, believe me, but I know their mettle. Miami will survive game 6, but The Leprechauns will take game 7 and move on.

I agree that its likely that the Celtics will win this series but if you read through this thread its as if Miami has already lost. Dont forget Miami has already won 2 games in a row vs Boston in this series. Its not even close to over yet and like I said in my initial post, if Miami does win the next two games we wont even remember this conversation lol.

YashBoone
06-06-2012, 12:18 PM
I don't think anyone in their right mind came BLAME Lebron. But heat lose as a team and the knock on them has always been, can wade and Lebron and a bunch of scrubs win it all?

Lebron was the one who declared them a dynasty before they played even one game

CunninghamJrIII
06-06-2012, 12:25 PM
2. He settles way too much for perimeter shots, even when he has a huge mismatch

from what i've seen, he really doesn't have a lot of moves to create a shot.
He mostly does 2 things:
1) a couple shot fakes/stutter steps followed by a jumpshot.
2) a straight power drive to the basket when the defender shades too far to one side, leaving a small lane to the basket, which a faster & stronger Lebron can exploit.

I honestly don't see a lot of moves in his one on one repertoire. Yes, he is great, one of the top players in the game no doubt. But when it comes time to create his own shot, it just doesn't seem to happen enough.

bucketss
06-06-2012, 12:27 PM
Yes it is Lebron's fault. stop making excuses for this guy. First its he needs a star to play with. He ends up with 2 and still can't get it done. But the reason I say it's his fault is because he isn't a leader. He claim it's his team so why isn't he going after wade. Lebron and wade take too many defensive plays off and that is why they lost last night. How many time did you see boston come down the court on 5-4 or 5-3 because wade and bron are walking back up the court. Lebron needs to be a leader and tell his team that he will not allow that.

when did he say it was his team?

Chronz
06-06-2012, 12:28 PM
I have two problems with LBJ, who is the best player on the planet:

1. Free throw shooting. Add Wade into this category too
2. He settles way too much for perimeter shots, even when he has a huge mismatch

They are both logging disgusting minutes to keep their teams in the game. Wade is usually a good FT shooter, but when you start to have tired legs its hard to keep that consistency. Bron is just a mediocre shooter but I have no doubt all those minutes have added up by now.

He settles because KG is in the paint waiting for him with total disregard for his man and the Heats open shooters.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 12:30 PM
Yes it is Lebron's fault. stop making excuses for this guy. First its he needs a star to play with. He ends up with 2 and still can't get it done. But the reason I say it's his fault is because he isn't a leader. He claim it's his team so why isn't he going after wade. Lebron and wade take too many defensive plays off and that is why they lost last night. How many time did you see boston come down the court on 5-4 or 5-3 because wade and bron are walking back up the court. Lebron needs to be a leader and tell his team that he will not allow that.

Too many defensive plays off? You do realize Bron is one of the greatest defenders in the game right? If his defense its slipping its from the unreal weight hes carried for this team. Defending anyone from Rondo, Pierce, KG.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 12:31 PM
Lol... Remember when Lebron said once they step on the floor it's gonna be easy and that it'll be so easy that Pat Riley could play with them... What a joke... Mental midget

He said that to pump up the crowd, when asked in an actual Interview environment he spoke of how hard it would be to win.

So which should we put more value in, a show in front of his fans or an interview?

THE GIPPER
06-06-2012, 12:31 PM
I have two problems with LBJ, who is the best player on the planet:

1. Free throw shooting. Add Wade into this category too
2. He settles way too much for perimeter shots, even when he has a huge mismatch

I actually disagree to an extent. I've noticed that he's often pulling a "Melo" and just sitting in the midpost every possession and backing his man down trying to get to the rim or drawing a double and dishing. At the same time when a big (Garnett, Bass, Stiemsma) is switched on to Lebron after the P&R, he always seems to shoot the Jimmy rather than attack the slower defender.

IMO he should focus on two things offensively:

1. When he catches the ball in the post he needs to attack instantly. Letting the defense set up makes it much more difficult.

2. Move more without the ball just like JVG said last night.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 12:32 PM
He pretty much disappeared in the 4th in terms of stats that matter.

But this is why the folks who say that Kobe didn't do crap in game 7 of the 2010 Finals are so wrong. Your superstar has to do anything and everything - lie, borrow, cheat, and steal, if necessary -- when it counts most. He has to show up.

LeBron has to put his imprint on the game in the closing minutes. He's going to catch hell either way, might as well go down kicking and clawing until the very end.

The problem with your comparison is if Bron gos awol in the first 80% of the game, his team is down by 30. He doesnt have the bigs to dominate the glass and be threats defensively. He is both their offensive and defensive anchor. Dude is spent by the end of games. His clutch production was fine before Bosh went out and the minutes began to mount.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 12:35 PM
I'd love to agree, but I cant see Doc, KG, Allen, Peirce, and Rondo drop a closeout game at home. If they do, I will personally apologize for waving the white flag, but I dont see it happening, no.

True, its hard to see them lose in Boston but at least they are 11-13 in close out games since the Big3 era began and they are 0-2 in their first chance to close a team out this year.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 12:37 PM
One thing you have to remember is that when you have three stars there's that much less money to pay for the rest of the team's salaries.

As a result their bench players are not going to be the same quality of another team that has more money to spend. The same thing happened to the Celtics when they tried to sign David West. They didn't have the money available that the Pacers did so he went there.

The reason it is his fault is because both he and Wade cannot shoot foul shots. If they shot at the same rate of the Celtics this series would already be over.
Thats a poor excuse tho, the Big3 all took discounts and its not that hard to build a bench. Mike Miller was a TERRIBLE decision. Joels extension was horrid. Shane Batter is overpaid. Look at how much the Celtics Big3 is making, and look at how much more competent their bench is. Riley doesnt know how to target players, he just likes hustle guys.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 12:39 PM
I'd want the best player in the world to play like it when the game comes to an end. His 32/10/5 doesn't mean **** when he does nothing down the stretch to finish the game. Greatness is defined by winning, not what kind of numbers you can post while losing. He has the ability to put the team on his back and he has yet to do so as a member of the heat.

LOL greatness is defined by great play. Without his production and superb defensive versatility, the Heat dont have a chance in hell of winning. The problem is, he doesnt get to rest the way most stars get. He HAS to play the entire 48, and keep in mind hes a 250 lb monster who has to play BOTH ends.

gaughan333
06-06-2012, 12:39 PM
chronz, are you a heat fan?

Chronz
06-06-2012, 12:40 PM
lebron needs more help.

Wade is washed up, bosh is soft.

Bosh has played 10 minutes this series, hes not soft, hes just not there.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 12:40 PM
chronz, are you a heat fan?

no, Im a realist

akagiredsuns
06-06-2012, 12:41 PM
Enough LeBron threads already. OP is just looking to bait people and have infractions thrown left and right. LeBron NEVER shows up in the 4th quarter. 2 pts in the last 8 minutes is NOT gonna cut it. We all know by now this supporting cast is garbage. It seems LeBron is a great first half guy (18pts 9 reb) & terrible in the 2nd half (12pts 4 reb). Wade the opposite (7pts in the first half 20 in the 2nd).

So stop with this crap already. LeBron is a great athletic versatile All-Star but until he can be a closer and a finisher in the 4th quarter and actually make clutch free throws, he is NO superstar. He won the MVP 3 times, so what? This year it was handed to him. Durant clearly earned it but that's OK because he's showing in the playoffs and in the ECF that he is a better leader especially in the 4th LeBron, WHEN IT COUNTS. That's why Thunder have won 3 straight and have the Spurs on the brink. And the Heat might, as Barry said last night, blow it up.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 12:41 PM
the grass is always greener on the other side right Lebron?

Cleveland 2.0

With Bosh out and Wade being inconsistent its worse than Cleveland, but at least there is hope. In Cleveland there was none, at least here if Bosh is healthy he will have room to operate and time to rest.

KingsMadness44
06-06-2012, 12:43 PM
i still can't believe that some Heat fans want to add Nash to there roster! Seriously what more do the Heat need in order to win??? And if you think people would be hating on Lebron now, just imagine if they did get Nash and didn't win!? Lebron would get criticized even more then anyone could even imagine!

This is another reason why people don't like the Heat!

Lets take the Thunder for example with there team: They have there own "Big 3" of Harden Westbrook and Durant. there role players are Thabo, good defender but not a reliable offensive threat. Collinson, same thing as Thabo. Perkins, big body but slow and not an offensive threat, decent defense. Derek Fisher, terrible defender and can hit a wide open 3 but thats about all hes good for on offense. Ibaka, Great defender and great rebounder on both ends BUT undersized for his position

Basically the point im trying to make is that the thunders role players arent all that much greater then the Heats.

I understand that the heat have been playing this series without Bosh BUT overall you don't hear any Thunder fans calling for more help. they believe in there team as it stands right now.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 12:45 PM
Enough LeBron threads already. OP is just looking to bait people and have infractions thrown left and right. LeBron NEVER shows up in the 4th quarter. 2 pts in the last 8 minutes is NOT gonna cut it. We all know by now this supporting cast is garbage. It seems LeBron is a great first half guy (18pts 9 reb) & terrible in the 2nd half (12pts 4 reb). Wade the opposite (7pts in the first half 20 in the 2nd).

So stop with this crap already. LeBron is a great athletic versatile All-Star but until he can be a closer and a finisher in the 4th quarter and actually make clutch free throws, he is NO superstar. He won the MVP 3 times, so what? This year it was handed to him. Durant clearly earned it but that's OK because he's showing in the playoffs and in the ECF that he is a better leader especially in the 4th LeBron, WHEN IT COUNTS. That's why Thunder have won 3 straight and have the Spurs on the brink. And the Heat might, as Barry said last night, blow it up.
False, Durant is able to finish because he has a frontcourt that gos 22-25 while hes missing in action. When he finally finds a rhythm he can close because his team carried him to that point. If Bron does that the team has lost the game long before that.

Check out Durants clutch stats in the first 2 games vs SAS. Clutch isnt a consistent trait, its a reflection of your support. The Celtics are a clutch TEAM because of the many outlet options they have. In Miami its just Bron and Wade the team has to worry about. Their support has PROVEN to miss wide open shots at an alarming rate.

jp611
06-06-2012, 12:46 PM
Lol... Remember when Lebron said once they step on the floor it's gonna be easy and that it'll be so easy that Pat Riley could play with them... What a joke... Mental midget

remember when rose said he will win mulitple championships?

Remember when he's still 22 years old and that's still very possible

bucketss
06-06-2012, 12:46 PM
Enough LeBron threads already. OP is just looking to bait people and have infractions thrown left and right. LeBron NEVER shows up in the 4th quarter. 2 pts in the last 8 minutes is NOT gonna cut it. We all know by now this supporting cast is garbage. It seems LeBron is a great first half guy (18pts 9 reb) & terrible in the 2nd half (12pts 4 reb). Wade the opposite (7pts in the first half 20 in the 2nd).

So stop with this crap already. LeBron is a great athletic versatile All-Star but until he can be a closer and a finisher in the 4th quarter and actually make clutch free throws, he is NO superstar. He won the MVP 3 times, so what? This year it was handed to him. Durant clearly earned it but that's OK because he's showing in the playoffs and in the ECF that he is a better leader especially in the 4th LeBron, WHEN IT COUNTS. That's why Thunder have won 3 straight and have the Spurs on the brink. And the Heat might, as Barry said last night, blow it up.

i hate when "casual" basketball fans like yourself post on here, im saying "casual" because thats the only explanation to this post or maybe you're trolling:facepalm:

Ill21
06-06-2012, 12:48 PM
A loss should never be blamed on one player, basketball is a team sport. Everyone needs to play well, not just one player.

mark1125
06-06-2012, 12:48 PM
Yes.....Bosh's injury is an excuse. Odd though that Heat fans poopooed the Bulls fans for citing Rose being gone as an excuse and are now crying about Bosh from the highest mountain.

bucketss
06-06-2012, 12:49 PM
Remember when he's still 22 years old and that's still very possible

23* and i guess so, maybe next he can lead you guys.. o wait..

BALLER R
06-06-2012, 12:49 PM
Too many defensive plays off? You do realize Bron is one of the greatest defenders in the game right? If his defense its slipping its from the unreal weight hes carried for this team. Defending anyone from Rondo, Pierce, KG.

walking back up the court after missing a shot is taking plays off is it not?

JordansBulls
06-06-2012, 12:51 PM
Let's actually wait till the series is over before we start a thread like this.

Lo Porto
06-06-2012, 12:52 PM
LeBron has to defer to Wade too much and it kills his rhythm and ability to absolutely take over a game. By now we should have seen LeBron with multiple MJ moments but that hasn't happened because he has to give the ball up to Wade so many times during the game.

LeBron leaving for Miami was a loss for the neutral basketball fan like me.

dh144498
06-06-2012, 12:52 PM
I sincerely feel bad for Lebron. Seems to me he plays his heart out but it's like he's cursed or something. He falls under pressure; his teammates play worse with him on the team. Things just do not go smoothly for him. :(

Chronz
06-06-2012, 12:53 PM
Basically the point im trying to make is that the thunders role players arent all that much greater then the Heats.

I understand that the heat have been playing this series without Bosh BUT overall you don't hear any Thunder fans calling for more help. they believe in there team as it stands right now.
Youve done a poor job of making that point. Ibaka can make a big impact on the game without ever having a play called for him. LOL at him being undersized, he doesnt play small and thats what counts, look at the Heats bigman rotation (without Bosh) for a real glimpse at what having an undersized unit does to that team. Ibaka is still a shot blocking terror and a great outlet option so he can provide spacing for his stars. Perk is a MUCH better center than Joel. Collison is a master at intangibles. Thabo is a defensive ace. The Heat would kill for that kind of quality depth.

Notice how the Thunder players who arent great offensively are great defensively. The Heat have to trot out players like Joel, Battier, Udonis, and James Jones. Guys who are inept offensively, and only decent defenders.

There is no comparison, the Thunder have a much better cast, the gap is negligible if Bosh is healthy, but without him there is a CLEAR disadvantage for the Heat. No other team is as top heavy as they are.

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 12:53 PM
Enough LeBron threads already. OP is just looking to bait people and have infractions thrown left and right. LeBron NEVER shows up in the 4th quarter. 2 pts in the last 8 minutes is NOT gonna cut it. We all know by now this supporting cast is garbage. It seems LeBron is a great first half guy (18pts 9 reb) & terrible in the 2nd half (12pts 4 reb). Wade the opposite (7pts in the first half 20 in the 2nd).

So stop with this crap already. LeBron is a great athletic versatile All-Star but until he can be a closer and a finisher in the 4th quarter and actually make clutch free throws, he is NO superstar. He won the MVP 3 times, so what? This year it was handed to him. Durant clearly earned it but that's OK because he's showing in the playoffs and in the ECF that he is a better leader especially in the 4th LeBron, WHEN IT COUNTS. That's why Thunder have won 3 straight and have the Spurs on the brink. And the Heat might, as Barry said last night, blow it up.

you're right. I'm baiting, and you're just saying Lebron isnt a superstar and was handed the MVP. But you're right, I'm the one baiting......

tcav701
06-06-2012, 12:53 PM
Lebron and wade used a missed shot an opporunity to ***** to he refs rather than get back on d. So yes its their fault.

Lead by example, superstar.

THE GIPPER
06-06-2012, 12:54 PM
walking back up the court after missing a shot is taking plays off is it not?

Your argument about Lebron not playing defense is so bad that Doc Rivers even disagrees with you.


"LeBron in this series has guarded the 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5. The only guy he hasn't guarded is me."

- Doc Rivers

Chronz
06-06-2012, 01:04 PM
walking back up the court after missing a shot is taking plays off is it not?
Sure, but apparently even with those plays small plays hes still a dominant defender. So why would anyone nitpick about a few plays if hes such a profound impact while putting in so much effort defensively?

If would be like you nitpicking that KG isnt shooting 3pters.

BALLER R
06-06-2012, 01:14 PM
Smh. When its a close game that isn't the time to takes plays off. I said Lebron just Wade does it more than he does. I'll admit that. But what I'm saying is you miss a shot instead of complaining run back on D. your giving boston wide open 3's in transition. They lost by 4 those plays make a huge difference this is the ECF not the regular season.

LakersKB24
06-06-2012, 01:22 PM
As much as I hate LeBron as a player, I don't really think you can blame him this time. I think he's been playing a terrific series so far.
The Celtics aren't ahead because LeBron is playing bad but because they are exposing the Heat's weaknesses.

Meaze_Gibson
06-06-2012, 01:32 PM
from what i've seen, he really doesn't have a lot of moves to create a shot.
He mostly does 2 things:
1) a couple shot fakes/stutter steps followed by a jumpshot.
2) a straight power drive to the basket when the defender shades too far to one side, leaving a small lane to the basket, which a faster & stronger Lebron can exploit.

I honestly don't see a lot of moves in his one on one repertoire. Yes, he is great, one of the top players in the game no doubt. But when it comes time to create his own shot, it just doesn't seem to happen enough.

Great Point and right on the money. The fundamental moves of scoring and feeling comfortable shooting are not his strongpoints. Dude is getting single coverage and still doesn't score the way he should. Add to the fact he is not a great free throw shooter and we will learn Lebron will not be the consistent closer we all thought he could be.

Meaze_Gibson
06-06-2012, 01:42 PM
As much as I hate LeBron as a player, I don't really think you can blame him this time. I think he's been playing a terrific series so far.
The Celtics aren't ahead because LeBron is playing bad but because they are exposing the Heat's weaknesses.

I don't think he gets sole blame but he is partially responsible. The missed free throws and the refusal to attack mismatches are what are killing the Heat. The Celtics are daring Bron to score on them and he just does not take his opportunity enough. In essence, the Celtics are exploiting Lebron's weaknesses and it is working. Until Bron commands a hard double or a match up problem the Celtics will win.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 02:08 PM
Smh. When its a close game that isn't the time to takes plays off. I said Lebron just Wade does it more than he does. I'll admit that. But what I'm saying is you miss a shot instead of complaining run back on D. your giving boston wide open 3's in transition. They lost by 4 those plays make a huge difference this is the ECF not the regular season.

What makes the bigger difference is how you play in the games entirety. There is no time to take a play off but these guys arent machines and quite frankly no one carries the 2-way burden Bron does, NOBODY. So if he happens to have a few slip ups so be it, what hes doing for the Heat is impressive. If you want to quibble about the minuscule aspects of his game go right ahead, it only proves how awesome he is. Playing ELITE defense isnt good enough when your Bron.

More-Than-Most
06-06-2012, 02:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI13kclVidU

Stinkyoutsider
06-06-2012, 02:33 PM
Basketball is a team sport so Lebron can't take the blame. He can't be blamed for his teammates not hitting shots or playing better defense. That's each player's fault (and the coach's fault for playing those players who aren't hitting shots and not playing defense).

But it is his fault when, every time the Heat is going on defense, I see Lebron looking and talking to the refs. That is his fault and it's also his fault as a leader to have the other Heat players follow what he's doing and also complain to the refs all the time. If he wants to be a champion, he needs to forget about the refs because it's the Heat vs the Celtics, not the Heat vs the Refs.

effen5
06-06-2012, 02:46 PM
Lol @ excuses

I hope heat fans learned not to talk **** anymore because when your team loses, the reaction and retaliation is a lot worse

AIRMAR72
06-06-2012, 03:09 PM
its not bron FAULT I think they should trade bosh and anthony and make run at gasol or some other legit post PLAYER with height and long arm hire a former nba PG on the staff and rid of coach spo he got NO business being a NBA headcoach but in his case its who you know thats why he has the job

KB-Pau-DH2012
06-06-2012, 03:10 PM
:dance: Amnesty LeBron :dance:



:dance: Amnesty LeBron :dance:



:dance: Amnesty LeBron :dance:



:dance: Amnesty LeBron :dance:



:dance: Amnesty LeBron :dance:



:dance: Amnesty LeBron :dance:

chicago lulz
06-06-2012, 03:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtkST5-ZFHw

ManRam
06-06-2012, 03:24 PM
Part of it is...most of it isn't. It's never one person's fault.

But we know the narrative...a lot will pin it all on him regardless.

He's like Russell Westbrook on steroids in terms of scapegoats...

LongIslandIcedZ
06-06-2012, 03:31 PM
Its certainly not his fault they may lose. Having said that, he and Wade need to work on FT's in the offseason. Its an easy fix if they invest a lot if time into it and it will pay incredible dividends.

basketfan4life
06-06-2012, 03:32 PM
2 straight wins and nobody will even remember this thread or any of the other Heat threads created in the last 12 hours. The series isnt even close to over yet.

it's not over yes, but it is damn close to over dude.

BigBlueCrew
06-06-2012, 03:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI13kclVidU

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh::laugh:

This is too damn funny

KB-Pau-DH2012
06-06-2012, 03:36 PM
2 straight wins and nobody will even remember this thread or any of the other Heat threads created in the last 12 hours. The series isnt even close to over yet.

Yes, but these Heat aren't the 2010 Lakers.

cubbies7177
06-06-2012, 03:39 PM
Its not Lebron's fault the Heat will lose. They have just missed their chances. Mario Chalmers and Shane Battier miss WIDE OPEN 3's all game, James Jones dribbles (he is the worst dribbler), Mike Miller doesnt get to play enough, Haslem does his part, but when only 1 role player is contributing all game its not going to end well. In the series, Wade scores 6 points in the first half so Miami gets down 15 early, and have to spend all that energy getting back into the game, and are even more tired than Boston down the strech cuz they run up big deficits. O yea, and Chris Bosh is hurt. Lebron is averaging 32/10/5 in this series. I mean, this is why he left Cleveland.

Before everybody jumps in and shouts EXCUSE lets me say this. "The dog eating my homework" is an excuse, such as "Miami is too tired cuz they used up too much energy against Indiana". That would be an excuse. Lebron's situation is more like, "I got hit by a car, thats why I wasnt in school" or in this case, the guy that opens the floor for him and Wade and is their only post presence has played 15 minutes in this series, no role players other than Udonis Haslem has consistently contributed, and Wade plays aweful at the start so Miami gets down big early. One guy cant do it alone, or in this case 2.5 (Lebron and Haslem, and Wade in the second half) Thats not an excuse, thats a reason.

it's absolutely lebron's fault. he knew exactly what signing 2 other superstars meant... NO BENCH. He claimed that the Heat could win 7 or 8 championships with 3 superstars... if he thought that he was going to play with 2 superstars and a solid bench, he is just foolish.

with the model of 3 superstars getting a huge portion of the team's salary cap, you have to assume that - as one of those superstars - you have to do most of the work. Bosh went down... that's the risk the Heat took by not building big man depth.

All of these actions could have been forseen if lebron had half of a brain.. which he probably doens't have. He was probably thinking " oh we will be unstoppable with 3 elite players"... didn't consider what he actually needed to win.. it's a joke that you don't blame lebron and his "decision"

basketfan4life
06-06-2012, 03:44 PM
False, Durant is able to finish because he has a frontcourt that gos 22-25 while hes missing in action. When he finally finds a rhythm he can close because his team carried him to that point. If Bron does that the team has lost the game long before that.
Check out Durants clutch stats in the first 2 games vs SAS. Clutch isnt a consistent trait, its a reflection of your support. The Celtics are a clutch TEAM because of the many outlet options they have. In Miami its just Bron and Wade the team has to worry about. Their support has PROVEN to miss wide open shots at an alarming rate.

you are right but considering how ball dominant players lebron and wade are, the role players don't even have a chance.

basketfan4life
06-06-2012, 03:46 PM
Sure, but apparently even with those plays small plays hes still a dominant defender. So why would anyone nitpick about a few plays if hes such a profound impact while putting in so much effort defensively?

If would be like you nitpicking that KG isnt shooting 3pters.

Chronz, come on man. In a crucial game 5 like this, you can be the best defender by far away, but if you don't go back to defence and other team scores off it, it's not nitpicking, it's inexcusable.

Fireworld
06-06-2012, 03:48 PM
Nope. its the coaches fault

nastynati
06-06-2012, 03:52 PM
LeBron is the best player in the world. He should have been tearing apart the zone by catching on the move. I get that he's such a great passer.. but he needs to shoot more if they want to win Game 6. ... Their offense is what seems to be lagging. Yes, the celtics play great D.. There is such little movement of the role players in their sets. The Celts know Lebron or wade will shoot..

MTL_123
06-06-2012, 03:52 PM
Lol @ excuses

I hope heat fans learned not to talk **** anymore because when your team loses, the reaction and retaliation is a lot worse

:facepalm: a bulls fan is criticizing us for talking **** really :facepalm:

King41
06-06-2012, 04:03 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:: laugh::laugh::laugh:

This is too damn funny

this! but a litle bit crazy

RaiderLakersA's
06-06-2012, 05:08 PM
I agree that its likely that the Celtics will win this series but if you read through this thread its as if Miami has already lost. Dont forget Miami has already won 2 games in a row vs Boston in this series. Its not even close to over yet and like I said in my initial post, if Miami does win the next two games we wont even remember this conversation lol.

True.

effen5
06-06-2012, 05:10 PM
:facepalm: a bulls fan is criticizing us for talking **** really :facepalm:

You guys talk **** more **** than any fan base and have zero reason too. What have you guys done except get bounced in the playoffs with two of th beat players in the world. How embarrassing is that.

RaiderLakersA's
06-06-2012, 05:12 PM
The problem with your comparison is if Bron gos awol in the first 80% of the game, his team is down by 30. He doesnt have the bigs to dominate the glass and be threats defensively. He is both their offensive and defensive anchor. Dude is spent by the end of games. His clutch production was fine before Bosh went out and the minutes began to mount.

It doesn't matter. No superstar that has ever won a title ever came up MIA in the 4th quarter. You don't get credit for carrying the team 3/4's of the way there. I don't even care if it's just a case of him giving a hard foul to stymie the opposing team's flow, he has to show up in the 4th quarter in a meaningful way. No excuses. That's the only way that he'll get to dance on the podium when the Finals are over. He can rest afterwards.

JordansBulls
06-06-2012, 05:21 PM
True, its hard to see them lose in Boston but at least they are 11-13 in close out games since the Big3 era began and they are 0-2 in their first chance to close a team out this year.

But those games they lost were on the road. How many have they lost at home for closeout games?

MTL_123
06-06-2012, 05:24 PM
You guys talk **** more **** than any fan base and have zero reason too. What have you guys done except get bounced in the playoffs with two of th beat players in the world. How embarrassing is that.

oh really oh we got the best record 2 years in a row, we got that bench mob our bench mob could beat most teams in the nba etc etc u guys even talked **** after rose went down wat ever were still gonna beat the 76ers we got that bench mob we got rip :facepalm:. Bulls fans talk sooooooo much **** its not even funny :facepalm: btw dnt say lol at the excuses we make cuz u guys make excuses for anything bad that rose does. Lebron locks him down-------No he didnt, rose was tired:facepalm:
Rose choked at the ft line ---------No he didnt

RaiderLakersA's
06-06-2012, 05:40 PM
Geez, is this really necessary? Can't we all just get along and see how it plays out before talking ****? :)


Quote:
Originally Posted by effen5
You guys talk **** more **** than any fan base and have zero reason too. What have you guys done except get bounced in the playoffs with two of th beat players in the world. How embarrassing is that.

oh really oh we got the best record 2 years in a row, we got that bench mob our bench mob could beat most teams in the nba etc etc u guys even talked **** after rose went down wat ever were still gonna beat the 76ers we got that bench mob we got rip . Bulls fans talk sooooooo much **** its not even funny btw dnt say lol at the excuses we make cuz u guys make excuses for anything bad that rose does. Lebron locks him down-------No he didnt, rose was tired
Rose choked at the ft line ---------No he didnt

surf and turf
06-06-2012, 05:42 PM
A big problem with Lebron is he complains every time he doesnt get the whistle. Some of the replays of non calls he wanted are laughable. He gets more whistles and no calls when he is on defense then anyone I ever saw including Jordan. To continue to wave your arms cry play after play does not reflect good leadership and certainly does not help the flow of the team stay loose and fluent. If you want to be mentioned in the same breathe as #23 you better grow up and become a leader.

NYMetros
06-06-2012, 06:01 PM
Not the 4th quarter performance you expect out of your superstar player. He had I think 9 points in the 4th, but you have to go for 14 or 15 honestly. He wasn't bad, just not great.

torocan
06-06-2012, 06:03 PM
It's not all Lebron's fault. It's a team game. Same as it's not all Wade's fault.

However...

If you're going to argue that Wade and Lebron are primarily responsible for winning, then it has to cut both ways. IE, Lebron AND Wade have to take a proportionate share of the blame.

Lebron is one of the most gifted players ever to touch a basketball. He's one of the greatest players in the league... for the first 40 minutes. The last 8 minutes when the pressure is on, he's nothing special.

Wade is one of the best scorers in the league... for the last 2 quarters of a game. For the first 2 quarters he's worse than a scrub. James Jones and Chalmers can do better than his 5 point per first half output.

Wade and Lebron are more to blame than any other player on their team. Just as they get most of the credit when they win.

As for blaming Spo... tell me that Spo is to blame when we start seeing threads about Spo's amazing coaching giving him credit for the Heat's winning record. Oh right... it's always about Wade and Lebron's great play!

As my pop once told me, if you can take the credit, then you can take the Heat... :D

rocket
06-06-2012, 06:11 PM
Who the **** is blaming him?

mark1125
06-06-2012, 06:21 PM
Who the **** is blaming him?

OP is probably perched by his Bron Bron fathead with his lotion and tissues waiting for PSD to say it isn't Bron's fault so he can flog the Johnson.

As someone just said, if you want to hog the spotlight and take all the credit, then deservedly or not, you better expect to take some blame.

Il Mago50
06-06-2012, 06:25 PM
Its not Lebron's fault the Heat will lose. They have just missed their chances. Mario Chalmers and Shane Battier miss WIDE OPEN 3's all game, James Jones dribbles (he is the worst dribbler), Mike Miller doesnt get to play enough, Haslem does his part, but when only 1 role player is contributing all game its not going to end well. In the series, Wade scores 6 points in the first half so Miami gets down 15 early, and have to spend all that energy getting back into the game, and are even more tired than Boston down the strech cuz they run up big deficits. O yea, and Chris Bosh is hurt. Lebron is averaging 32/10/5 in this series. I mean, this is why he left Cleveland.

Before everybody jumps in and shouts EXCUSE lets me say this. "The dog eating my homework" is an excuse, such as "Miami is too tired cuz they used up too much energy against Indiana". That would be an excuse. Lebron's situation is more like, "I got hit by a car, thats why I wasnt in school" or in this case, the guy that opens the floor for him and Wade and is their only post presence has played 15 minutes in this series, no role players other than Udonis Haslem has consistently contributed, and Wade plays aweful at the start so Miami gets down big early. One guy cant do it alone, or in this case 2.5 (Lebron and Haslem, and Wade in the second half) Thats not an excuse, thats a reason.

Prepare to be served.

I agree that Lebron has played great this postseason.

Now where we differ.

Of those 2.5 guys, you have the best and third best players in the league. Both of these guys on their own with very little supporting cast (Wade with broken Shaq, Lebron with Broken Big Z and Mo) got to the finals versus much better opponents (Detroit Pistons in their prime).

Next, Chalmers is a top 10 defensive PG in the NBA and consistently makes outside shots. He is a great role player for a team like this, exactly what you need with his combination of defensive prowess, shooting, slashing, etc.

You have Shane Battier who made two straight 2nd team all defensive teams until he got hurt and missed most of last year. If you're not a big name and haven't made it before, that's when you know a guy on the All-D team is a legit defensive player. He isn't a great shooter but he's made more then enough for teams to contest him.

You have Mike Miller who is actually hitting almost 2 threes a game and shooting 41% from deep in the playoffs. While he's obviously been a bust in terms of what they thought they had, he's contributed and has shot the ball well for the most part.

You have Chris Bosh now and last year who was considered a top 10-15 player up until he joined the Heat. Enough said.

Lastly, in the playoffs, the Big 3 and Chalmers combine for 61 of 75 shots taken each game. That means the other 6-7 guys are shooting 15 shots...if they shoot 50% from the field, you're getting 14-16 ppg at most and that's asking a lot in terms of efficiency for any group of bench guys.

Now let's get to Lebron. He has disappeared in the past 3 fourth quarters. He literally pulled a Mavs series last night and didn't even look to attack while being guarded by Pietrus. I don't give a flying **** if he got 30 and 13, those numbers didn't come when it mattered.

It's like saying, "Dwyane Wade scored 25 in the first half and finished with 27 points, he played great" if a scenario like that happened.

No you didn't. When your team needed you to lead them to a win and produce down the stretch, you disappeared.

We've all become stats obsessed instead of results obsessed. We should be praising a guy that plays great late in games and actually leads his team to wins. If you're just getting your team to the fourth quarter and then passing it off to someone else and disappearing, you're not even a superstar, you're a glorified role player.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 06:36 PM
you are right but considering how ball dominant players lebron and wade are, the role players don't even have a chance.

LOL they dont get the ball because they cant create. Your trolling needs work

Chronz
06-06-2012, 06:37 PM
Chronz, come on man. In a crucial game 5 like this, you can be the best defender by far away, but if you don't go back to defence and other team scores off it, it's not nitpicking, it's inexcusable.
Nah, I care about the entire game, not isolated incidents.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 06:39 PM
It doesn't matter. No superstar that has ever won a title ever came up MIA in the 4th quarter. You don't get credit for carrying the team 3/4's of the way there. I don't even care if it's just a case of him giving a hard foul to stymie the opposing team's flow, he has to show up in the 4th quarter in a meaningful way. No excuses. That's the only way that he'll get to dance on the podium when the Finals are over. He can rest afterwards.
LOL no player has ever carried his team 100% of the way to a title so I dont get your point.

BcEuAbRsS
06-06-2012, 06:41 PM
This isn't so much about Lebron... It's about the Heat for me... It's about them thinking and saying that this was gonna be easy, joining up and trying to find a shortcut, having a celebration for free agency... That's what this is about for me cause honestly, I love Lebron and truly enjoy watching the dude play...

Corey
06-06-2012, 06:41 PM
So far in the playoffs, Lebron is averaging 30, 9 and 5 and some people still find a way to blame him.

Verbal Christ
06-06-2012, 06:41 PM
do the heat fans really call their subs the 'bench mob' ??? that is good stuff. LOL

that is the biggest flaw with that team IMO. so much is wrapped up into 3 players that its almost impossibel to fill out the roster with above average talent. it will turn into another destination where over the hill players go to die in hopes of winning that ring. One of those "big 3" will have to get moved in order to free up the space needed to find competent PG help and a legitimate 5.

Verbal Christ
06-06-2012, 06:42 PM
LOL no player has ever carried his team 100% of the way to a title so I dont get your point.

Hakeem Olajuwon circa 1993 might want to holler at you.

NickyNick
06-06-2012, 06:46 PM
So far in the playoffs, Lebron is averaging 30, 9 and 5 and some people still find a way to blame him.


good numbers, but this doesnt include not getting back on defense so he can complain to the ref, and the celtics go down a score....its game 5 of the eastern conference and you are the best defensive player on the court!! wake up and play basketball.

Also I always notice he never owns up to his mistakes, he threw a bad pass over chalmers 5 rows into the stands, never says my bad, just stares at chalmers like it was his fault. He doesnt care about the game or team as much as his image.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 07:10 PM
do the heat fans really call their subs the 'bench mob' ??? that is good stuff. LOL

that is the biggest flaw with that team IMO. so much is wrapped up into 3 players that its almost impossibel to fill out the roster with above average talent. it will turn into another destination where over the hill players go to die in hopes of winning that ring. One of those "big 3" will have to get moved in order to free up the space needed to find competent PG help and a legitimate 5.
Thats a cop out, there isnt much wrapped up into 3 players, Pat just sucks at building a bench. If Morey was the GM of Miami, he would have found serviceable players with late draft picks regularly. Same thing with San Antonio, their big 3 makes more collectively but their management knows how to replenish the ranks.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 07:21 PM
Hakeem Olajuwon circa 1993 might want to holler at you.
Rick Barry could join that list, but Im speaking relative to their eras. Dream in that run played better than Bron ever has, but he had it easier. Competition is better now IMO, I dont see Dream having to carry an inferior cast the way Bron has to in order to win. Dream had the luxury of tremendous spacing and quality role players to provide timely shots.

Be honest, would you take any of the competition Dream faced over ANY of the teams in this years Final 4? The defenseless Suns with no center. The Knicks who had Ewing and nothing else. If you had a 1 great player back in those days you were contending. Hell the Hawks won 57 games with Danny FREAKING Manning as the centerpiece.

Rain City
06-06-2012, 07:23 PM
Since the last quarter of the season lebron has probably played more minutes than anyone, and spends more energy than anyone.

Think about it, the offense is run through him, he depends alot on his drive and gets hammered and goes to the line often, he defends the teams best player, from David West and KG to Rondo to pierce.....He plays help defense, he crashes the boards, nobody uses as much energy as him.

no wonder he struggles end of games, his legs are tired...Other guys have the benefit of being able to pace throughout the game, not Lebron, he cant afford to.

Ill say this, he is the biggest whiner to the refs now, but other than that people can get off his back.

Meaze_Gibson
06-06-2012, 07:24 PM
Thats a cop out, there isnt much wrapped up into 3 players, Pat just sucks at building a bench. If Morey was the GM of Miami, he would have found serviceable players with late draft picks regularly. Same thing with San Antonio, their big 3 makes more collectively but their management knows how to replenish the ranks.

But the Heat have serviceable players. Shane Battier is better than Gary Neal. Udonis Haslem is a better player than Tiago Splitter. Truth is, if you brought Danny Green, Leonard, or any of them other guys they would probably shoot near the exact same as our current rotation. If Spurs had Mike Miller, Shane Battier etc they would produce as well. It is not the players it is the system.

C-Style
06-06-2012, 07:25 PM
haha u seriously using his teammates as scapegoats? no shame at all

Mell413
06-06-2012, 07:25 PM
It's a team game so he should get some of the blame. However he would be well down the list. I could understand if this playoffs was a repeat of last year, but he's actually played well and yet people always look for some small thing and bring him down because of it. It's kind of silly when you think about it. He brought some of this on himself, but all that stuff was 2 years ago. I think it's time people let it go. I just wish more people would appreciate his game rather than talk him down all the time. This is coming from someone who is a neutral fan.

heyman321
06-06-2012, 07:28 PM
Yesterday I saw Lebron punch an orphan in the face, then take his lunch money

Chronz
06-06-2012, 07:35 PM
But the Heat have serviceable players. Shane Battier is better than Gary Neal.
Not IMO. Neal is in his prime and is a marksman, the Heat would LOVE a guy like him.


Udonis Haslem is a better player than Tiago Splitter.
Definitely not


Truth is, if you brought Danny Green, Leonard, or any of them other guys they would probably shoot near the exact same as our current rotation. If Spurs had Mike Miller, Shane Battier etc they would produce as well. It is not the players it is the system.
Shane Battier has been in the same role for years now, there is no difference in his game except for him not making as many shots and not defending as well as he used to. Its called declining. Unless the Spurs can cure back problems better than Miami I dont see how Miller would do better but I would agree hes a horrible fit for this team. I could see him doing better in SA if healthy.

Still doesnt change what I said about Riley being inept at finding quality role players with his limited assets.

Laces-Out
06-06-2012, 07:49 PM
Yesterday I saw Lebron punch an orphan in the face, then take his lunch money

the kid was in a wheel chair too... :facepalm:

smiddy012
06-06-2012, 07:51 PM
Just because Lebron thinks he's a prophet doesn't mean he is. C'mon guys, he didn't mean to lie to himself or the world, he truly believed it himself!

John Walls Era
06-06-2012, 07:54 PM
You can't fully blame him, but its actually ridiculous how he can't make shots in the last minute.

KB-Pau-DH2012
06-06-2012, 07:59 PM
Hakeem Olajuwon circa 1993 might want to holler at you.

You don't even know the yr u guys first won the title? It was '94, not '93. And no, Hakeem had some of the greatest shooters and clutch playmakers in the game in Horry, Kenny, Cassell, and Elie.

Verbal Christ
06-06-2012, 08:14 PM
Thats a cop out, there isnt much wrapped up into 3 players, Pat just sucks at building a bench. If Morey was the GM of Miami, he would have found serviceable players with late draft picks regularly. Same thing with San Antonio, their big 3 makes more collectively but their management knows how to replenish the ranks.

i dont think its a cop out. you may be right about riley losing sight on player evaluation, but he's already built 1 championship team, and been a part of i dont know how many else. he knows the formula, i just think that most people thought that those 3 guys would be enough to run through everybody and they didnt research and search out those valuable steals and hidden gems. maybe their assistants and scouts should be fired. you can pull up both rosters and just go up and down and see a discrepancy in the reserves.

san antonio has long been known as being the best at filling the ranks, not only with superior veterans but with smart and informed drafting. i cant argue that at all, but maybe the core in SA is just more cohesive and reciprocal in play and their experience is an unquantifiable measurement. their two next highest players are stephen jackson and matt bonner. each with their own skillset (or lack thereof) but yet contributing, but to those salaries?

what about coaching??? there is a huge discrepancy in that department when using these two teams as the variables. would popovich have that heat team playing better? how much more?

something has that team off, and if it isnt the salary restrictions when dealing with 3 max type guys, then im curious to know what it would be. experience? not sure i think you're the kind of guy that believes in experience.

Verbal Christ
06-06-2012, 08:24 PM
Rick Barry could join that list, but Im speaking relative to their eras. Dream in that run played better than Bron ever has, but he had it easier. Competition is better now IMO, I dont see Dream having to carry an inferior cast the way Bron has to in order to win. Dream had the luxury of tremendous spacing and quality role players to provide timely shots.

Be honest, would you take any of the competition Dream faced over ANY of the teams in this years Final 4? The defenseless Suns with no center. The Knicks who had Ewing and nothing else. If you had a 1 great player back in those days you were contending. Hell the Hawks won 57 games with Danny FREAKING Manning as the centerpiece.

really? dream had it easier? when he was the only threat that a team would gameplan for with instant doubles and sometimes triple coverage. the role guys by sheer percentages would have to knock down some of those 'timely' wide open shots, i mean they are professionals and all. the problem here is a comparing a center driven game to a guard driven game. mid 80's to mid 90's IMO opinion is just as tough if not tougher than today's game. there is alot of parity in today's game, same teams win, free agents team up, whatever. back then players stayed with their teams and built something. and the competition was fierce. today's game is great, but i wouldnt go so far as saying its superiof to the mid 90's game. the nba has evolved into a faster paced game, but patrick ewing was no slouch. david robinson was no slouch. charles barkley in his prime with the suns was no slouch. shaq and penny were young and inexperienced and it wasnt their fault that nick scott nutted up and forgot how to shoot free throws. Dream DID carry a bunch of no names into the championship game, at which point anything can happen. dude danny manning before the knee's blew up was ice water and you know it.

im watching these games and im not noticing an overly talented defensive game. if i had either of the championship HOU teams I wouldnt care who we faced among these 4 teams honestly because the knicks back then played nasty defense, so did the bulls so did most teams actually. no blood no foul. now a days its more like "mean big black man make my boo boo hurt ... call foul" its nauseating at times. then all the crying to the refs, flopping around. that crap was player regulated back in the day. that may be the problem, more real men back then, now you got a bunch of skinny jeans and lens "less" glasses guys who just like to point fingers. i'm more adament now. id defintely take that era to this.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 08:32 PM
i dont think its a cop out. you may be right about riley losing sight on player evaluation, but he's already built 1 championship team, and been a part of i dont know how many else. he knows the formula, i just think that most people thought that those 3 guys would be enough to run through everybody and they didnt research and search out those valuable steals and hidden gems. maybe their assistants and scouts should be fired. you can pull up both rosters and just go up and down and see a discrepancy in the reserves.
Thats why Riley is at fault, he relies on his scouts more than his own talent evaluation. His signings were blunders.


san antonio has long been known as being the best at filling the ranks, not only with superior veterans but with smart and informed drafting. i cant argue that at all, but maybe the core in SA is just more cohesive and reciprocal in play and their experience is an unquantifiable measurement. their two next highest players are stephen jackson and matt bonner. each with their own skillset (or lack thereof) but yet contributing, but to those salaries?

Morey is in that same class, hell even Ainge has been able to build a better bench than Riley.


what about coaching??? there is a huge discrepancy in that department when using these two teams as the variables. would popovich have that heat team playing better? how much more?

Dont know, dont care, all I know is that Riley has failed the big 3.


something has that team off, and if it isnt the salary restrictions when dealing with 3 max type guys, then im curious to know what it would be. experience? not sure i think you're the kind of guy that believes in experience.
Its definitely not the salary as teams over the cap have proven to be able to build benches and use their limited assets more efficiently than Riley.

ne3xchamps
06-06-2012, 08:40 PM
Who cares?? He will never be jordan or even kobe for that matter. He's going to have to deal with being the best basketball player on the planet, and can't win the big show... so far.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 08:51 PM
really? dream had it easier? when he was the only threat that a team would gameplan for with instant doubles and sometimes triple coverage. the role guys by sheer percentages would have to knock down some of those 'timely' wide open shots, i mean they are professionals and all.
Thats my point, the Heat have missed WIDE OPEN shots with great regularity. Dream had superb outlet options at his disposal. And the competition they faced wasnt as stacked as todays contenders.


the problem here is a comparing a center driven game to a guard driven game. mid 80's to mid 90's IMO opinion is just as tough if not tougher than today's game. there is alot of parity in today's game, same teams win, free agents team up, whatever. back then players stayed with their teams and built something. and the competition was fierce. today's game is great, but i wouldnt go so far as saying its inferior to today's game. the nba has evolved into a faster paced game,
Umm same teams won more often in the 90's. The pace of the game has slowed down, but the players have gotten quicker if thats what you mean and I dont see what makes it tougher, you have teams like Atlanta winning 57 games, I mean look at that roster. Would that team even go .500 in todays NBA?


but patrick ewing was no slouch.
The point Im making is that compared to today his supporting cast was weak. Who were his top players? Starks and Oakley? LOL


Dream DID carry a bunch of no names into the championship game, at which point anything can happen. dude danny manning before the knee's blew up was ice water and you know it.
Sure maybe for his time he was considered a good player, but by todays standards, the Manning in Atlanta was basically a poor mans Lamar Odom.


im watching these games and im not noticing an overly talented defensive game. if i had either of the championship HOU teams I wouldnt care who we faced among these 4 teams honestly because the knicks back then played nasty defense, so did the bulls so did most teams actually. no blood no foul. now a days its more like "mean big black man make my boo boo hurt ... call foul" its nauseating at times. then all the crying to the refs, flopping around. that crap was player regulated back in the day. that may be the problem, more real men back then, now you got a bunch of skinny jeans and lens "less" glasses guys who just like to point fingers. i'm more adament now. id defintely take that era to this.
It only seems that way because you havent given enough credit to the superior defense that was played before the league opened up the game. Defenses were getting too dominant, ratings were falling off because nobody liked seeing intense rivalries like the Heat vs Knicks. Pacers vs Pistons. These were the defenses that didnt exist in the mid 90's so its unfair to punish todays era for finding a comparable level of efficiency. Coaches who have served throughout the 80's/90's vs 2000+ have witnessed the difference in defensive schemes and admit its more complex today.

I mean if you go back to the 70's they allowed tons of physical contact from the defender but I wouldnt say their defense is all that harder than todays. They barely double teamed back then.

The game has evolved for sure, its gotten to the point where you can no longer win 57 games with a team as poor as Atlanta had that year.

beliges
06-06-2012, 08:54 PM
who took the blame for last years finals loss? 100% of the blame?


:facepalm:

Thats because Lebron cost his team the games in the 4th quarter. Those performances were some of the all time worst performances in the Finals for a player of Lebron's stature.

You cannot say if the Heat lose its not Lebron's fault. They win with Lebron and lose with Lebron. Most of these games came down the stretch, and were decided with the last few plays. Lebron did not will his team to victories. However, this series is FAR from over and I would be willing to bet the Heat win both game 6 and 7. However, enough with the Lebron apologists. He came to Miami to put himself on a team with 2 other superstars and have a much easier shot at a title. What he is learning is that you cannot just jump your way to a championship like he expected. You gotta actually perform. Its legacy game time for Lebron. Hes gotta put this team on his back and carry them.

beliges
06-06-2012, 08:55 PM
Who cares?? He will never be jordan or even kobe for that matter. He's going to have to deal with being the best basketball player on the planet, and can't win the big show... so far.

I also have a problem with this statement. If Durant wins the title, he is the best player in the league. At least for me.

beliges
06-06-2012, 08:59 PM
Thats a cop out, there isnt much wrapped up into 3 players, Pat just sucks at building a bench. If Morey was the GM of Miami, he would have found serviceable players with late draft picks regularly. Same thing with San Antonio, their big 3 makes more collectively but their management knows how to replenish the ranks.

Are you kidding me? Pat Riley put two of the best players in the league on the same team along with another top 5 big man. The Heat have the most stacked starting 5 in the league, by far, talent-wise. Dont you try to blame the team. When he was in Cleaveland, Lebron lost because his team was crap. In Miami, now if Lebron loses its because his teammates suck again? Sorry, Lebron put the pressure on him when he joined Wade and Bosh as part of one of the most stacked tandems the league has seen. No excuses. Lebron has to put this team on his back and win.

kblo247
06-06-2012, 09:05 PM
Thats a poor excuse tho, the Big3 all took discounts and its not that hard to build a bench. Mike Miller was a TERRIBLE decision. Joels extension was horrid. Shane Batter is overpaid. Look at how much the Celtics Big3 is making, and look at how much more competent their bench is. Riley doesnt know how to target players, he just likes hustle guys.

I said it before

Fisher - 3
Horry - 4
Fox - 5
Shaw - 6
George - 7
Madsen - 8

Is Miller, Battier, Haslem, Turiaf, Chalmers, and Joel really worse than that?

At the end of the day Kobe and Shaq no matter what bs they had going on kicked *** and took names. They were men and held themselves accountable to win. LeBron is supposed to be the best in the world, Wade top 5 as there were people proclaiming him the best SG this year just right after Kobe got eliminated, and if they can't step up and win after saying 8 rings, it's easy, we already won, and stuff then it's on the. No excuses they just ain't that good and let their mouths write checks théir assess couldn't cash

You can't have it oth ways some of you for your pet who you made excuses for in Cleveland about only having role players. Now he has a superstar, all star, and a bench with guys who all have starting experience and it isn't enough? Now Cleveland gave him better support in depth over being top heavy, yet you crucify the likes of Kobe for winning with no depth and top heavy teams lmao

Not at you chronz but just lol at this. **** his stats outside the ring column and getting done by winning with talent over using excuses. No more excuses. The only stat that matters is ringless with talent so far and the fact Miami regressed like Cleevalnd did after he choked in those spurs finals. He's supposed to be the best in the world, then show up late and stop spectating to make the **** you talked come true, and if he can't then look in the camera and say its on me

beliges
06-06-2012, 09:10 PM
One cannot possibly use Lebron's supporting cast as an excuse. That would be the dumbest argument ever. Again, he plays on the most stacked starting 5 in the entire NBA. Theres something that needs to be said about just winning. Individual numbers are nice and all, but it all comes down to winning. You have to be able to win, especially if you play on a team as talented as the Heat. Stop with the excuses. First his team sucked in Cleavland and now his team sucks in Miami? Cmon now.

kblo247
06-06-2012, 09:11 PM
2x post

Chronz
06-06-2012, 09:17 PM
I said it before

Fisher - 3
Horry - 4
Fox - 5
Shaw - 6
George - 7
Madsen - 8

Is Miller, Battier, Haslem, Turiaf, Chalmers, and Joel really worse than that?
Without Bosh yes. Shaq and Kobe didnt have redundent skill sets, they complimented each other much better, on top of that Shaq at his apex was a better player than either Bron or Wade.


At the end of the day Kobe and Shaq no matter what bs they had going on kicked *** and took names. They were men and held themselves accountable to win. LeBron is supposed to be the best in the world, Wade top 5 as there were people proclaiming him the best SG this year just right after Kobe got eliminated, and if they can't step up and win after saying 8 rings, it's easy, we already won, and stuff then it's on the. No excuses they just ain't that good and let their mouths write checks théir assess couldn't cash

LOL, Im not going to blame them for hyping up a crowd, they ALSO spoke of how DIFFICULT it would be to win, Bron said this in an actual interview setting. Why would I put more emphasis on a spur of the moment type of reaction over a real interview setting?


You can't have it oth ways some of you for your pet who you made excuses for in Cleveland about only having role players. Now he has a superstar, all star, and a bench with guys who all have starting experience and it isn't enough? Now Cleveland gave him better support in depth over being top heavy, yet you crucify the likes of Kobe for winning with no depth and top heavy teams lmao

Im not making those argument tho, you can take this somewhere where it applies.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 09:18 PM
One cannot possibly use Lebron's supporting cast as an excuse. That would be the dumbest argument ever. Again, he plays on the most stacked starting 5 in the entire NBA. Theres something that needs to be said about just winning. Individual numbers are nice and all, but it all comes down to winning. You have to be able to win, especially if you play on a team as talented as the Heat. Stop with the excuses. First his team sucked in Cleavland and now his team sucks in Miami? Cmon now.

Where have you been? You do realize he hasnt played with Bosh for awhile now right. And without him that lineup is a joke. They are set 1-3, but the rest of the lineup is meh.

beliges
06-06-2012, 09:22 PM
Where have you been? You do realize he hasnt played with Bosh for awhile now right. And without him that lineup is a joke. They are set 1-3, but the rest of the lineup is meh.

The rest of the lineup is MEH because their 1-3 is one of the most talented of all time. Haslem, Battier, Miller were always solid role players. I understand that Bosh has been out, but hes back. One thing Ive noticed with Lebron fans, theres always an excuse. He plays with Dwyane freaking Wade for goodness sakes. Cmon man, enough with the excuses. Its Lebron's job to make his teammates better. Its not enough to score 30 ppg.

albertc86
06-06-2012, 09:26 PM
When you're dubbed the so-called "best player on the planet", I think it is your fault if you can't carry your team to victory. Especially when you have a player of Wade's caliber on your team.

Yankeefan213
06-06-2012, 09:29 PM
Isnt LeBron like 50 percent from the line this series? And isnt Wade also under 60? Yeah, thats why they are losing.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 09:29 PM
The rest of the lineup is MEH because their 1-3 is one of the most talented of all time. Haslem, Battier, Miller were always solid role players. I understand that Bosh has been out, but hes back. One thing Ive noticed with Lebron fans, theres always an excuse. He plays with Dwyane freaking Wade for goodness sakes. Cmon man, enough with the excuses. Its Lebron's job to make his teammates better. Its not enough to score 30 ppg.

LOL but hes back is your response? Yes all 11 minutes should give them the most stacked lineup and should give them an edge in talent. Forget the fact that he hasnt played in weeks. If thats your rebuttal to those excuses then they will never stop, there is simply no reason to.

And you can only do so much for your teammates, he cant put the ball in the hoop for them. He cant cure Millers back and teach Battier how to attack off the dribble, he cant turn back the clock and make Battier a better defender.

Haslem, I have my suspicion that Bron doesnt play well with him so you got me there but he hasnt been the same either.

KB-Pau-DH2012
06-06-2012, 09:29 PM
Isnt LeBron like 50 percent from the line this series? And isnt Wade also under 60? Yeah, thats why they are losing.

That and their lack of transition defense and lack of interior defense.

Oh, and karma.

quade36
06-06-2012, 09:37 PM
when 80 percent of your points goes through two players how can you not say its their fault???

Chronz
06-06-2012, 09:38 PM
Isnt LeBron like 50 percent from the line this series? And isnt Wade also under 60? Yeah, thats why they are losing.

You dont think the burden they are carrying has anything to do with that?

JJ_JKidd
06-06-2012, 10:00 PM
Its not Lebron's fault the Heat will lose. They have just missed their chances. Mario Chalmers and Shane Battier miss WIDE OPEN 3's all game, James Jones dribbles (he is the worst dribbler), Mike Miller doesnt get to play enough, Haslem does his part, but when only 1 role player is contributing all game its not going to end well. In the series, Wade scores 6 points in the first half so Miami gets down 15 early, and have to spend all that energy getting back into the game, and are even more tired than Boston down the strech cuz they run up big deficits. O yea, and Chris Bosh is hurt. Lebron is averaging 32/10/5 in this series. I mean, this is why he left Cleveland.

Before everybody jumps in and shouts EXCUSE lets me say this. "The dog eating my homework" is an excuse, such as "Miami is too tired cuz they used up too much energy against Indiana". That would be an excuse. Lebron's situation is more like, "I got hit by a car, thats why I wasnt in school" or in this case, the guy that opens the floor for him and Wade and is their only post presence has played 15 minutes in this series, no role players other than Udonis Haslem has consistently contributed, and Wade plays aweful at the start so Miami gets down big early. One guy cant do it alone, or in this case 2.5 (Lebron and Haslem, and Wade in the second half) Thats not an excuse, thats a reason.

When you say not 1 not 2 not 3, and youre the league MVP? Oh come on please! :facepalm:

valade16
06-06-2012, 10:21 PM
You dont think the burden they are carrying has anything to do with that?

It seems to me you are awfully sympathetic towards the Heat for someone who I would've thought would strive for objectivity.

Everytime there is a thread that has any criticism of the Heat, fair or not, you always manage to come to their defense.

That being said, the Heat are getting out-played in this series, that goes for all of them. LeBron has been very good, but there are also periods where he is a non-factor and he has made a couple costly plays that have hurt the Heat.

Is he the biggest reason their down? No. As the 3 time MVP, Supposed Best Player in the league, guy who left his "hometown team" to team up with Wade and Bosh promising 7 titles is he going to get lots of the blame?

Absolutely. As he should.

Wolfman01
06-06-2012, 10:24 PM
Of course it's not going to be LeBron James fault. Basketball is a team sport and when you play as a team you lose as a team. No one should ever be the person to be blamed for this and that on the court.

Chronz
06-06-2012, 10:34 PM
It seems to me you are awfully sympathetic towards the Heat for someone who I would've thought would strive for objectivity.
Its an honest question. Analysts and announcers have referenced something similar.


Everytime there is a thread that has any criticism of the Heat, fair or not, you always manage to come to their defense.

LOL fair or not? I only choose to argue against the unfair arguments.


That being said, the Heat are getting out-played in this series, that goes for all of them. LeBron has been very good, but there are also periods where he is a non-factor and he has made a couple costly plays that have hurt the Heat.

So what your saying is that Bron hasnt been perfect? GASP


Is he the biggest reason their down? No. As the 3 time MVP, Supposed Best Player in the league, guy who left his "hometown team" to team up with Wade and Bosh promising 7 titles is he going to get lots of the blame?

Absolutely. As he should.
What does his hometown have to do with anything? And he left to avoid having to carry such a drastic 2-way load for heavy minutes.

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 11:09 PM
when 80 percent of your points goes through two players how can you not say its their fault???

cuz 2 players shouldnt have to score 80 percent if your team is serious about winning a title........

jrm2054
06-06-2012, 11:13 PM
cuz 2 players shouldnt have to score 80 percent if your team is serious about winning a title........

the solution is to not spend all your money on 3 guys then and build a balanced team

Chronz
06-06-2012, 11:13 PM
Announcers just mentioned fatigue being a factor in Durant missing 3 fts. Are they biased?

Chronz
06-06-2012, 11:14 PM
the solution is to not spend all your money on 3 guys then and build a balanced team

They spend less on their big 3 than Boston and San Antonio. The key is to build depth to support the big3

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 11:16 PM
the solution is to not spend all your money on 3 guys then and build a balanced team

maybe you're right, but thats what management decided to do, and lets not forget that 1 of those 3 has played 14 minutes in this series.

jrm2054
06-06-2012, 11:17 PM
maybe you're right, but thats what management decided to do, and lets not forget that 1 of those 3 has played 14 minutes in this series.

true riley should take more blame for the team he built but Lebron is a polarizing figure and to be fair he doesn't help his cause with his words, attitude and play late in games

TylerSL
06-06-2012, 11:20 PM
true riley should take more blame for the team he built but Lebron is a polarizing figure and to be fair he doesn't help his cause with his words, attitude and play late in games

you're right with his words the "we played well enough to win" didnt go over with me very well either.

jrm2054
06-06-2012, 11:27 PM
you're right with his words the "we played well enough to win" didnt go over with me very well either.

I was a huge Lebron fan when he was in Cleveland but not anymore not for leaving but the whole 7 rings thing and he acts like a baby. That's not meant to be an insult but when you have the arrogance he has and the talent you have to deliver or everything will be your fault fair or not. If he didn't talk as much wade to i think they wouldnt be treated this way by media and fans. But until Lebron wins a ring everything will be his fault to most people.

Losoway
06-07-2012, 12:09 AM
honestly it was lebron fault last year ,...but this year it is CLEARLY WADE and SPO , this dude has been playing terrible this playoffs and spo cant draw up a decent play to save his life

lebrons been averaging close to 30 and 10 rebs a game

NBAFan2012
06-07-2012, 12:33 AM
I am with Skip Bayless here. The expectations for Lebron James are so low that there is no point in really blame him anymore. He gets his empty stats, scores with his dunks and layups and Jumpshots are still his kryptonite...that is why he came to the Heat. Wade was supposed to have the heart and leadership and will to lead his team to a title everything that Lebron lacks but he hasnt been able to...

CoffeeJanitor
06-07-2012, 12:51 AM
Dear Lebron James excuse makers

Lebron is a freak of nature, the most physically gifted player to step on a basketball court. He is a great player, but he is not an all time great yet.
Not until he shows he can close games when it counts the most.
He is not in my top 5 of guys in the league I want with the ball in my hand at the end of a crucial game.

I know he has closed games before, but not consistently, and not when it counted the most.

Keep blaming the coach, or the role players.

An all time great would take in on themselves to will them to victory.Reality check.

Why can't LeBron close games well?

He is a crappy jumpshooter. When the defense tightens near the ends of games it makes it very difficult for him to drive. See: end of Celts/Heat game 4. One possession, he drove and got a charge. On the final possession, he was triple teamed when driving. He is a mediocre FT shooter.

His game is not built for end of game situations. The exact opposite is Durant. He is an elite jumpshooter, so if that's all the defense gives him, he's still good.

Losoway
06-07-2012, 12:59 AM
lebron had sex with some of yall girlfriends or something . im convinced

the hate is at a all time high

BALLER R
06-07-2012, 09:58 AM
What makes the bigger difference is how you play in the games entirety. There is no time to take a play off but these guys arent machines and quite frankly no one carries the 2-way burden Bron does, NOBODY. So if he happens to have a few slip ups so be it, what hes doing for the Heat is impressive. If you want to quibble about the minuscule aspects of his game go right ahead, it only proves how awesome he is. Playing ELITE defense isnt good enough when your Bron.

Do you listen. I'm saying they take plays off not because their tired but because they miss a shot and just complaining to the refs. Wade will hit the floor and lie there looking at the ref instead of getting back down the court. But maybe you just think that's acceptable behavior.

Chronz
06-07-2012, 11:59 AM
Do you listen. I'm saying they take plays off not because their tired but because they miss a shot and just complaining to the refs. Wade will hit the floor and lie there looking at the ref instead of getting back down the court. But maybe you just think that's acceptable behavior.
Do you listen? They take the LEAST amount of plays off defensively. And I dont believe you know how tired they are, with the load Bron has carried the last few weeks, I dont think anyone can not be tired. I have no doubt its effecting their play late in games, both mentally and physically.

valade16
06-07-2012, 03:07 PM
Do you listen? They take the LEAST amount of plays off defensively. And I dont believe you know how tired they are, with the load Bron has carried the last few weeks, I dont think anyone can not be tired. I have no doubt its effecting their play late in games, both mentally and physically.

Is LeBron the first player in NBA history to carry this load or play this many minutes? Absolutely not.

So either you're making an excuse for LeBron or you are saying that he cannot accomplish what most of the all-time greats he is compared to could.

Chronz
06-07-2012, 03:18 PM
Is LeBron the first player in NBA history to carry this load or play this many minutes? Absolutely not.

So either you're making an excuse for LeBron or you are saying that he cannot accomplish what most of the all-time greats he is compared to could.
Ive honestly never seen someone have to carry this big of a 2-way burden against a superior team. Feel free to educate me because it looks like hes losing to a better team to me.

dh144498
06-07-2012, 05:39 PM
I just went grocery shopping and they were out of milk......:mad:

effen5
06-07-2012, 07:31 PM
Isn't it ironic the exact thing he left Cleveland for is the reason bron is losing games? Except he actually had a team that could should the ball in Cleveland.

Verbal Christ
06-07-2012, 10:01 PM
crickets.

is it lebron's fault so far in game 6? i cant remember such a polarizing figure in recent history that wont be able to live up to public perception ... EVER. even when he does win his ring they'll still be those guys who hate him just to hate him.

heyman321
06-07-2012, 10:05 PM
crickets.

is it lebron's fault so far in game 6? i cant remember such a polarizing figure in recent history that wont be able to live up to public perception ... EVER. even when he does win his ring they'll still be those guys who hate him just to hate him.

in the future: "so what if Lebron has 6 rings??? has he built orphanges single handedly and taken over late in the game of stopping human sex trafficking? no? i didn't think so! he's a choker!"

Raps18-19 Champ
06-07-2012, 10:08 PM
It's his fault.

Chronz
06-07-2012, 10:29 PM
Yea, if the Heat lose this game and someone finds a way to fault Bron, Im impregnating my girl just to bring a single rational person to this world. I cant stand the ignorance.

JordansBulls
06-07-2012, 11:29 PM
Sure in the hell wasn't his fault tonight.

TylerSL
06-08-2012, 12:36 AM
yea I look like an *** now, so can this be closed?

Beltrans Mole
06-08-2012, 12:48 AM
LBJ went off tonight...he's playing amazing right now and the rest of his team hasn't picked him up at all. Spoelstra needs to get canned if they lose this Game 7. Wade gets no blame at all, yet continues to be overrated because he won a ring with Shaq years ago.