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JasonJohnHorn
06-03-2012, 01:31 PM
Easy enough. Who do you think are the best passers of all time. List your top five. Here's mine:

1. Stockton
2. Magic
3. Nash
4. Thomas
5. The Big O

I have excluded CP3 and Rondo because they both have years of playing ahead of them, but they obviously have a great potential to be among the best in history. And I feel bad leaving Cousey and Kidd off my list. I've read that assists have been awarded to PGs more liberally than they were in the 60's and 70's, so it's hard to rank the older generation. Oh, and an honourable mention to Mark Jackson.

Who you got?

cle12152433
06-03-2012, 01:41 PM
Oscar Robertson should get consideration. Guy led the league in Assists and APG many times.

cle12152433
06-03-2012, 01:43 PM
Oops I See you have him at five. My bad.

StarvingKnick22
06-03-2012, 02:30 PM
where is Jason Kidd?!! you know, that guy that is second in Career Assist? :facepalm: is there something wrong with you?

jericho
06-03-2012, 03:16 PM
where is Jason Kidd?!! you know, that guy that is second in Career Assist? :facepalm: is there something wrong with you?

yes there is something wrong with him

bcc
06-03-2012, 03:18 PM
Not a chance on earth Larry Bird doesn't belong on this list. And he was a wing/corner guy, making it all the more impressive.

javaid64
06-03-2012, 03:33 PM
Not a chance on earth Larry Bird doesn't belong on this list. And he was a wing/corner guy, making it all the more impressive.

larry bird great player and better than every player in OP but hard to put him over the OP top 5 in terms of passing.

JasonJohnHorn
06-03-2012, 06:04 PM
where is Jason Kidd?!! you know, that guy that is second in Career Assist? :facepalm: is there something wrong with you?

Jason Kidd is a great passer, and there is something to be said about longevity, but his career totals are as much about how many seasons he's played as how many assists he got per season. I left Cousey off the list to, which I felt bad about, but the Big O deserves a spot on there, he was the best play maker of his generation, and Magic and Thomas, I'm sorry, but I think they are better passers than Kidd, they just didn't play as many seasons, hence not as many career totals. And Nash, well... I am Canadian, so maybe he is a homer pick, but while he took a few seasons to hit his stride, once he did he proved that he was as good, if not better than Kidd.

Hawkeye15
06-03-2012, 06:14 PM
natural passers? In no order, Stockton, Magic, Kidd, Paul, Nash are obvious. I thought Mark Jackson was a very good passer, I think Rondo is a pretty damn good passer, and I like what I saw out of Rubio in his first year.

All timers, I won't go before Magic, my viewing of those games is limited to some degree. But from what I saw, Oscar was a very good passer, Cousy seemed pretty slick, and a shout out to Andre Miller, Kevin Johnson, and Mark Price.

BALKIS2K12
06-03-2012, 06:17 PM
gary payton was a great passer too.

JasonJohnHorn
06-03-2012, 06:21 PM
Cousy seemed pretty slick, and a shout out to Andre Miller, Kevin Johnson, and Mark Price.

I love the shout out to Kevin Johnson... he's such an underrated player. And Cousy invented the PG position, but they didn't keep track of turnovers for most of his career and I heard he was turnover prone, but I also have read that they were pretty stingy about handing out assists back then, like if you dropped the ball into the guy in the post and he scored, you wouldnt get an assist for that, but I don't know how true that is. Solid list though.

bcc
06-03-2012, 08:39 PM
You tube Tiny Archibald some time.

takeshi
06-03-2012, 10:06 PM
Yes, Gary Payton is a great passer.

b@llhog24
06-04-2012, 12:34 AM
natural passers? In no order, Stockton, Magic, Kidd, Paul, Nash are obvious. I thought Mark Jackson was a very good passer, I think Rondo is a pretty damn good passer, and I like what I saw out of Rubio in his first year.

All timers, I won't go before Magic, my viewing of those games is limited to some degree. But from what I saw, Oscar was a very good passer, Cousy seemed pretty slick, and a shout out to Andre Miller, Kevin Johnson, and Mark Price.

:nod: One of the most underrated passers off all time.


gary payton was a great passer too.

No Barea? :facepalm:

b@llhog24
06-04-2012, 12:35 AM
Jason Kidd is a great passer, and there is something to be said about longevity, but his career totals are as much about how many seasons he's played as how many assists he got per season. I left Cousey off the list to, which I felt bad about, but the Big O deserves a spot on there, he was the best play maker of his generation, and Magic and Thomas, I'm sorry, but I think they are better passers than Kidd, they just didn't play as many seasons, hence not as many career totals. And Nash, well... I am Canadian, so maybe he is a homer pick, but while he took a few seasons to hit his stride, once he did he proved that he was as good, if not better than Kidd.

While assits per game is obviously a good indicator of who is a good passer or not, there is more to passing than that.

69centers
06-04-2012, 12:37 AM
Magic and Pistol Pete come to mind

Chronz
06-04-2012, 01:01 AM
Pistol Pete? Are we simply ignoring turnovers here?

greg_ory_2005
06-04-2012, 01:09 AM
Jason Williams!

Mave1002
06-04-2012, 01:28 AM
Magic
Nash
Kidd
Rondo
White Chocolate

69centers
06-04-2012, 01:29 AM
Pistol Pete? Are we simply ignoring turnovers here?

Considering that when Maravich played his best years turnovers weren't even recorded, I don't know wtf you're talking about. The year they started keeping that stat, he only played 50 games (the year he injured both knees) and never played close to a full season the rest of his career. He has always been brought up as one of the greatest passers and ball handlers of all time, but leave it to you to go against the grain.

Chronz
06-04-2012, 01:32 AM
Considering that when Maravich played his best years turnovers weren't even recorded, I don't know wtf you're talking about. The year they started keeping that stat, he only played 50 games and never played close to a full season the rest of his career. He has always been brought up as one of the greatest passers and ball handlers of all time, but leave it to you to go against the grain.
Yes because Turnovers didnt exist before we started tracking them. LMFAO.. Thats like saying I cant mention Bill Russell as an elite shot blocker because they didnt record the stat.

Im not going against the grain at all, he was always been mentioned as a sloppy/erratic passer, an incessant showboat who took dumb shots. But he was flashy and when his passes hit their mark they would wow the crowd.


Again, are we completely ignoring turnovers here?

69centers
06-04-2012, 01:38 AM
Yes because Turnovers didnt exist before we started tracking them. LMFAO.. Thats like saying I cant mention Bill Russell as an elite shot blocker because they didnt record the stat.

Im not going against the grain at all, he was always been mentioned as a sloppy/erratic passer, an incessant showboat who took dumb shots. But he was flashy and when his passes hit their mark they would wow the crowd.


Again, are we completely ignoring turnovers here?

Unless you can come up with a stat, yes. You without a stat ... :speechless:

Magic and Isaiah Thomas had more turnovers than what was tracked with Pete, and everyone ignores them. It's a stat that is acceptable when it's bad and you're a great player, and it is most often ignored.

Lakersfan2483
06-04-2012, 01:50 AM
Magic
Stockton
Oscar
Kidd
Nash

Honorable mention: Bob Cousy, Pistol Pete, Chris Paul, G. Payton and Mark Jackson

Chronz
06-04-2012, 02:00 AM
Unless you can come up with a stat, yes. You without a stat ... :speechless:
So your on record for saying no one can call Bill Russell a great shot blocker because they have no stat for it? You should remove your avatar immediately if thats the case.

And in this case we KNOW he averaged 5.0 turnovers and 6.7 assists in a year in which he was obviously good enough to average 27PPG for 50 games. We also know he was ridiculed as much as he was praised for his passing.


Magic and Isaiah Thomas had more turnovers than what was tracked with Pete, and everyone ignores them.
Magic and Isiah were FAR more efficient/effective passers and players in general. Poor excuse



It's a stat that is acceptable when it's bad and you're a great player, and it is most often ignored.
No stat is ignored. Every stat plays a role in determining the efficiency of a players game. Magic looked to pass and set his teammates up far more than Pistol did. Pistols turnovers were far more costly in comparison. If your going to have him on there then may as well put Steve Francis on the list too.

Chronz
06-04-2012, 02:01 AM
Magic
Stockton
Oscar
Kidd
Nash

Honorable mention: Bob Cousy, Pistol Pete, Chris Paul, G. Payton and Mark Jackson

Where is Steve Francis and Jason Williams?

Lakersfan2483
06-04-2012, 02:09 AM
Where is Steve Francis and Jason Williams?

Williams was a very good passer as was Francis, they definitely deserve some mention. Also, Penny Hardaway and Rondo.

Chronz
06-04-2012, 02:11 AM
Williams was a very good passer as was Francis, they definitely deserve some mention. Also, Penny Hardaway and Rondo.Well at least your consistent

Lakersfan2483
06-04-2012, 02:19 AM
Well at least your consistent

Not sure if you remember Rod Strickland and Mark Price. Very good passers in their own right.






*I never really considered Francis in my top passers list, although he was good at his peak. Turnover prone.

Chronz
06-04-2012, 02:20 AM
I always got the feeling Rod Strickland was high as ****.

Lakersfan2483
06-04-2012, 02:24 AM
I always got the feeling Rod Strickland was high as ****.

Haha. He was under the radar good.

Lakersfan2483
06-04-2012, 02:28 AM
Lebron James is a great passer also as was Larry Bird.

albertc86
06-04-2012, 04:27 AM
While assits per game is obviously a good indicator of who is a good passer or not, there is more to passing than that.

This. Oh, how I hate stats. They're easy to lean on but too many variables come into play when you talk numbers. Unfortunately, you'll get involved in a lot of arguments on here because they reach for the numbers.

Whomewhome
06-04-2012, 04:55 AM
Magic
Stockton
Oscar
Kidd
Nash

Honorable mention: Bob Cousy, Pistol Pete, Chris Paul, G. Payton and Mark Jackson


Agree with this list.

BALKIS2K12
06-04-2012, 07:33 AM
scottie pippen was a pretty sick point guard for the blazers.

valade16
06-04-2012, 02:21 PM
scottie pippen was a pretty sick point guard for the blazers.

He was the biggest reason we were so good. We had such a dysfunctional cast of characters Scottie's calming influence literally drove the team. His impact on those squads went so far past his numbers it was ridiculous.

Also, just because you mentioned that very painful time for me, **** that ref that tossed Rasheed and **** the Lakers!!! :mad:

the avenger
06-04-2012, 02:35 PM
no order:
Magic
Nash
Thomas
Stockton
Robertson

close:
Kidd
Cousy
KJ