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Vincent33
06-01-2012, 12:31 PM
http://twitter.com/DKnobler/status/208575568931864577


DKnobler
‏@DKnobler

Red Sox are telling teams they definitely intend to trade Youkilis.

Never really heard of Mr. Knobler of CBS Sports, but something I guess most of us were probably aware of this season. Kind of puts some certainty to it though I suppose if Knobler and his sources are credible. I assume they would be.

NE Sportsfan
06-01-2012, 12:36 PM
Hurry up.

Sweet_Caroline
06-01-2012, 12:38 PM
“@JonHeymanCBS: #dodgers are stepping up scouting of youkilis. clear signal is the new LAD will do what it takes to win.”

elements1985
06-01-2012, 12:50 PM
“@JonHeymanCBS: #dodgers are stepping up scouting of youkilis. clear signal is the new LAD will do what it takes to win.”

Maybe the LAD will do what Butch Stearns proposed last weekend: Kevin Youkilis for Andre Ethier? :speechless:

NE Sportsfan
06-01-2012, 12:52 PM
I don't want Ethier. Sweeney has been a pleasant surprise, and Kalish is getting ready.

Soxfan85
06-01-2012, 12:55 PM
His trade value may have increased a tad but not much..

This is from CBS sports: Youkilis is 33 (an old 33, it appears), and he has a big contract (he makes $12 million this year, with a $13 million option or $1 million buyout for 2013). But he has hit .313 with a .903 OPS in nine games since returning from the disabled list, and with very few good bats expected to be available in trade this summer, the Sox should have no problem finding a partner.

Sweet_Caroline
06-01-2012, 12:57 PM
If we don't get Kemp and Kershaw no deal.

Pittz
06-01-2012, 01:36 PM
The Red Sox saying this would only lower their leverage. I mean, I think we all know it's true, but they wouldn't say it.

Vincent33
06-01-2012, 01:38 PM
If we don't get Kemp and Kershaw no deal.

:laugh2: Indeed.

CarniifeX
06-01-2012, 02:05 PM
What would it honestly take for the Angels to get him. He's 33, still productive, somewhat injury-prone and due $12M this year with a $13M option for 2013.

Here's a list of our top prospects: http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/12/22/2655452/los-angeles-angels-top-20-prospects-for-2012

I would propose a deal but I honestly don't know what the Sox are looking for.

sager729
06-01-2012, 02:08 PM
Youk to the ChiSox for Floyd and a mid level prospect.

CHRISDODGERS
06-01-2012, 02:33 PM
Maybe the LAD will do what Butch Stearns proposed last weekend: Kevin Youkilis for Andre Ethier? :speechless:


I don't want Ethier. Sweeney has been a pleasant surprise, and Kalish is getting ready.

lmao

THINKBLUE15
06-01-2012, 02:33 PM
I don't want Ethier. Sweeney has been a pleasant surprise, and Kalish is getting ready.

:laugh::laugh:

Green Storm
06-01-2012, 02:42 PM
I don't want Ethier. Sweeney has been a pleasant surprise, and Kalish is getting ready.

This is BRILLIANT! :laugh::laugh2:

RedSoxtober
06-01-2012, 02:46 PM
More food for thought from Pete Abraham at the Boston Globe...


Ben Cherington said 10 days ago that he didn't see Adrian Gonzalez playing right field as a long-term solution for the Red Sox.

Ten days later, he's pretty much the regular right fielder. With Cody Ross coming back before the end of this month (or at least so it seems) followed by Jacoby Ellsbury and Carl Crawford, the Red Sox are going to have some roster issues very soon.

Demoting Will Middlebrooks, who is hitting .316/.343/.579, wouldn't seem to make much sense.

That brings us to the idea, once again, of trading Kevin Youkilis.

Danny Knobler of CBS Sports reported that the Sox intend to trade Youkilis. Our Nick Cafardo has reported that the Giants, Diamondbacks and Dodgers are keeping an eye on the infielder. You can add the Rangers and maybe the Phillies to that list.

Here's my question: Does it stop with Youkilis?

The Red Sox are carrying three lefthanders in the bullpen and have several qualified arms (Mark Melancon, Clayton Mortensen and Junichi Tazawa) waiting for a chance at Pawtucket. One of those lefties could increase the scope of the trade.

Maybe there's an outfielder who could get thrown into the mix. Or backup catcher Kelly Shoppach.

The point is that the trade on the horizon may not be Youkilis for Prospect A and Prospect B. It could be Youkilis and other pieces for an established No. 3 starter. Or something else.

And while there is little chance it happens this summer, especially because he's hurt, don't the Red Sox have to at least consider trading Ellsbury before he becomes a free agent and dances to the tune played by Scott Boras?

That's a topic for another day, probably after the season. For now, prepare yourself for the Sox to be active on the trade market. At this point, it's not if, it's when.

NE Sportsfan
06-01-2012, 03:04 PM
Oh good LA fans overrating Ethier and not understanding our OF situation.

CHRISDODGERS
06-01-2012, 03:09 PM
Oh good LA fans overrating Ethier and not understanding our OF situation.

Ethier has a better bat than any OF you have right now. LOL at you not wanting him.

NE Sportsfan
06-01-2012, 03:11 PM
Ethier has a better bat than any OF you have right now. LOL at you not wanting him.

Sweeney/Ross/Kalish for RF. Isn't he going to be a FA? Don't need him. Sweeney has been one of our best hitters.

GrkGawdofWalkz
06-01-2012, 03:13 PM
“@JonHeymanCBS: #dodgers are stepping up scouting of youkilis. clear signal is the new LAD will do what it takes to win.”

That's the perfect kind of team to send him to. As I will always be a diehard Youkilis fan, I'd watch more starts to see him in Dodger blue.

Tragedy
06-01-2012, 03:23 PM
LOL @ the Dodger fans coming in acting like Ethier is anything special. Sox do not need this guy at all. Wouldn't make any sense for the Red Sox to do the trade when we've got options like Ross, Ellsbury, and Crawford coming back.

I'm all for trading Youk, but it'd be a shame to see him on a team like the Dodgers. Hard to root for him there.

Norieaga
06-01-2012, 03:52 PM
Last thing we need is another OF. I'd re-sign Ellsbury before I go for Ethier, though Ethier is a great player. I just think Ells suits our needs more.

YazMan
06-01-2012, 03:54 PM
The reality is we have a lot of trade bait, so let the sale begin!
Excess = Youk, Morales, Punto, Shoppach, Byrd, McDonald, Lars and maybe even Albers.
Replacements = Middlebrooks, Melanson, Cirianco, Lavarnway, Ross, Ells or Kalish and Dice K or Tazawa or Mortenson
Needs = A couple of AA or AAA young arms and some payroll/ 40 man roster relief!

Soxfan85
06-01-2012, 04:09 PM
Source: WEEI.com

Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington described reports that the team is looking to trade Kevin Youkilis as "inaccurate."
"That’s inaccurate," Cherington said. "Some teams have checked in on him. We haven’t told any teams we plan to trade him. It’s our job to listen if teams have interest. He’s swinging the bat well since coming off the DL and [is] a big part of our team and lineup." We wouldn't expect Cherington to say anything else, as he's obviously not going to confirm that Youk is on the block. While it's possible they might not necessarily be looking to unload him, it's pretty clear that he can be had.

SirHizz
06-01-2012, 04:31 PM
Youk to the ChiSox for Floyd and a mid level prospect.

Don't know if the WSox are willing to part with any starter. But I'd make a deal like that (centered around Youk). Floyds ERA is quite high, but his peripherals look alright.
That's definitely a deal I can see...

VRP723
06-01-2012, 04:32 PM
LOL @ the Dodger fans coming in acting like Ethier is anything special. Sox do not need this guy at all. Wouldn't make any sense for the Red Sox to do the trade when we've got options like Ross, Ellsbury, and Crawford coming back.

I'm all for trading Youk, but it'd be a shame to see him on a team like the Dodgers. Hard to root for him there.

I've been reading along and biting my tongue, as it's not my forum, but umm, holy crap that was an awful comment.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-01-2012, 04:39 PM
Dodgers fans, I think NE Sportsfan is being sarcastic(at least I hope he is).

Any who, I wonder what we can get prospect wise from him.




Source: WEEI.com

Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington described reports that the team is looking to trade Kevin Youkilis as "inaccurate."
"That’s inaccurate," Cherington said. "Some teams have checked in on him. We haven’t told any teams we plan to trade him. It’s our job to listen if teams have interest. He’s swinging the bat well since coming off the DL and [is] a big part of our team and lineup." We wouldn't expect Cherington to say anything else, as he's obviously not going to confirm that Youk is on the block. While it's possible they might not necessarily be looking to unload him, it's pretty clear that he can be had.

Of course he's going to say that.

SirHizz
06-01-2012, 04:43 PM
Of course he's going to say that.

Yes, but I really doubt he is trying hard to unload Youk. He's not in a rush and if the return isn't at least halfway decent, why would he let him go? Middlebrooks could go to the minors, it wouldn't be the worst thing since he could focus working on his plate-discipline and some other things.

NE Sportsfan
06-01-2012, 05:18 PM
Dodgers fans, I think NE Sportsfan is being sarcastic(at least I hope he is).

Any who, I wonder what we can get prospect wise from him.





Of course he's going to say that.

No, I'm not. We don't need Ethier and I don't want him.

Greenmonster24
06-01-2012, 05:46 PM
I do Either in a second as long as he will sign long term. He better then anyone in our outfield and Ross is only here 1 year and he would put up awesome numbers here and would keep Pedroia here. We can always try trade Crawford and Ellsbury and try get a center fielder like Justin Upton. If we can get a outfield of Upton and Either and Sweeney/Ross and Kalish one of them I be really happy. Either and Hamels needs to be our main targets if I was GM and getting rid of salary to make it happen important. Crawford we going to have to eat 5 million a year to trade but we made a big mistake. Why couldn't we have moved Gonzalas to right field last year and resign Beltra instead. He is on his way to his 3rd straight silver slugger and would been much easier to trade when Middlebrook was ready and toke less years then Crawford and his game doesn't depend on speed which you lose when you get older.

RedSoxtober
06-01-2012, 05:54 PM
I've been reading along and biting my tongue, as it's not my forum, but umm, holy crap that was an awful comment.

I don't think he's really "special" but he's a good OFer having a great season (so far). If the Dodgers would do an Ethier-for-Youkillis deal straight up I'd probably do it. Luxury tax implications (for the Sox) are almost negligible but we get a similar bat in its appropriate position (vs AGon in RF).

avrpatsfan
06-01-2012, 05:59 PM
I'd love to have Ethier on this team. No matter how well Ross and Sweeney have done this year, having an outfield of Ethier/Ellsbury/Crawford is ridiculous.

Greenmonster24
06-01-2012, 06:37 PM
Why would they Dodgers want to trade Either though. Do they have to many outfielders.

THINKBLUE15
06-01-2012, 06:46 PM
Why would they Dodgers want to trade Either though. Do they have to many outfielders.

They don't and won't.

I wasn't laughing so much at the 'I don't want Ethier' as much as someone actually thinking Ethier could be had for Kevin Youk.

VRP723
06-01-2012, 06:46 PM
I don't think he's really "special" but he's a good OFer having a great season (so far). If the Dodgers would do an Ethier-for-Youkillis deal straight up I'd probably do it. Luxury tax implications (for the Sox) are almost negligible but we get a similar bat in its appropriate position (vs AGon in RF).

Never in 10 million years would the Dodgers do Ethier for Youkilis. Youkilis is gonna get a B spect at best, Ethier is a premier bat in his prime.

THINKBLUE15
06-01-2012, 06:48 PM
The Dodgers are looking to ADD a bat. Not replace their second best hitter with an inferior one. Youk would help fill a big hole at the corner infield positions. But Ethier for Youk? Come on.

Station 13
06-01-2012, 06:53 PM
The Dodgers are looking to ADD a bat. Not replace their second best hitter with an inferior one. Youk would help fill a big hole at the corner infield positions. But Ethier for Youk? Come on.

How did this even started?

NE Sportsfan
06-01-2012, 07:17 PM
Never in 10 million years would the Dodgers do Ethier for Youkilis. Youkilis is gonna get a B spect at best, Ethier is a premier bat in his prime.

He's not a premier bat.

elements1985
06-01-2012, 08:12 PM
The Dodgers are looking to ADD a bat. Not replace their second best hitter with an inferior one. Youk would help fill a big hole at the corner infield positions. But Ethier for Youk? Come on.

Exactly. And it's like the Celtics rumors last NBA deadline: contenders look to enhance their roster, not dole out key pieces and mess up a good thing.

Ethier for Youkilis would yield a net loss for LA. With the best record in baseball, the Dodgers will have all the leverage in any deal with the BRS -- unless some LHP bullpen arms are included.

elements1985
06-01-2012, 08:15 PM
He's not a premier bat.

This season he's pretty close. But at 30, I wouldn't touch it.

NE Sportsfan
06-01-2012, 08:16 PM
Look at what Sweeney is hitting at, that along with playing very good defense.

Pass on Ethier.

CHRISDODGERS
06-01-2012, 09:58 PM
LOL @ the Dodger fans coming in acting like Ethier is anything special. Sox do not need this guy at all. Wouldn't make any sense for the Red Sox to do the trade when we've got options like Ross, Ellsbury, and Crawford coming back.

I'm all for trading Youk, but it'd be a shame to see him on a team like the Dodgers. Hard to root for him there.

No no. he's nothing special. He's a career .310/.385/.528 against RHP. But no, Ross is better. Lets keep Ross in there.

A team like the Dodgers? Not enough drama for him in LA I guess lol

JMP83
06-01-2012, 11:34 PM
Ethier is worth more than Youk at this point, obviously, and he's better than Ross/Nava/Sweeney.

That said, I can't imagine the Sox trying to trade for Ethier without also wanting to extend him, and considering he'll be 31 next year and his power had been on a four year decline before this year, and I'm not a big fan of that. For those reasons I wouldn't want to trade for him, which is reasonable. Besides, I'd prefer to get prospects or a pitcher for the rest of the year. I think that's reasonable; Dodger fans, keep your pants on.

bagwell368
06-02-2012, 12:10 AM
Ethier is a below average fielder and would never be able to handle RF in Boston. Ever. That means he is in LF, what do you do with CC (besides execute him)? So there is no use for him in Boston.

Ethier may be a prime hitter by NL West standards, but he's another jamoke in the AL East - without a position on the BRS.

According to Cot's, he's a FA agent next year. So he's a rental. Depends how bad LAD wants a 1B. Loney is brutal this year.

So sorry, not interested in getting Ethier except that he's Pedroia's pal, and he could be gone for '13 just like that...

No.

Celtic AL
06-02-2012, 12:21 AM
i would trade youk to the dodgers for Jerry Sands & Some Prospect Pitchers

gustofer1
06-02-2012, 04:15 AM
Ethier is a below average fielder and would never be able to handle RF in Boston. Ever. That means he is in LF, what do you do with CC (besides execute him)? So there is no use for him in Boston.

Ethier may be a prime hitter by NL West standards, but he's another jamoke in the AL East - without a position on the BRS.

According to Cot's, he's a FA agent next year. So he's a rental. Depends how bad LAD wants a 1B. Loney is brutal this year.

So sorry, not interested in getting Ethier except that he's Pedroia's pal, and he could be gone for '13 just like that...

No.

Made me LoL.

I agree with your point of view that Ethier would have to be in left. I would want him if we didn't have someone like Ellsbury returning (hopefully before CC). Taking into account the fact that he's on his last year of this contract, he would fit in with an all-or-bust push for at the very least a playoff run this year.

That being said, I'd rather trade him for a pitcher. I doubt we could get a Volquez from Cincy or a Billingsly from the LAD (even with us adding pieces), but I bet we could flip him for 2-3 prospects and use them + 3 of our kids in a deal for King Felix. Youk+Beckett for 2 back-end BP arms and 2 B 'spects and go get him!

sager729
06-02-2012, 10:36 AM
I'm trying to figure out Youk's value as a rental player. Jon Heyman was on the Chicago Sports radio station and saying that he thinks the value is something like 2 B prospects, likely both pitchers. Guys who can help very soon. So if that is the case, and I have thought about it more, I wouldn't do Floyd for Youk. Dylan Axelrod and a guy like Simon Castro or Pedro Hernandez is what I am thinking now.

LA Sox Fan
06-02-2012, 11:32 AM
Whether or not a guy like Ethier is a good fit in Boston is pretty much irrelevant since, no, the Dodgers would never trade him for Youk. The realities of the situation are these...
A) Youk does have value but only to a CONTENDING team that needs a bat
B) A contending team that needs a bat isn't going to trade another needed bat (or a pitcher who can help them contend now) for Youk

We can get some nice prospects for him but that's probably it. The biggest advantages to moving Youk as far as the Sox are concerned are that they clear the logjam and stop having to play a gold glove 1B in the outfield, they shed some payroll, and they get some talent that can hopefully help them in the next couple years.

Greenmonster24
06-02-2012, 12:03 PM
If Youkilis plays well he might not be a rental cause the team has a option on him next year

AI
06-02-2012, 12:37 PM
Where did this Ethier for Youk talk start? Dodgers would never do that.

Youkilis has been solid since coming off the DL, he'll probably land us 2 good specs but nothing elite.

YazMan
06-02-2012, 02:40 PM
Hurry up before he hurts himself again or before Gonzo hurts himself in the outfield!

sager729
06-02-2012, 03:35 PM
Where did this Ethier for Youk talk start? Dodgers would never do that.

Youkilis has been solid since coming off the DL, he'll probably land us 2 good specs but nothing elite.

That is what I was thinking about Youk's value. I really think he makes sense for the White Sox. Do you think the Red Sox are looking for pitching?

BGeer091
06-02-2012, 04:19 PM
Youk for Zach Lee?? :-) No... Oh ok fine :-(

How about for Withrow and Aaron Miller?

todu82
06-02-2012, 05:20 PM
Be interesting to see what we get back for Youklis. Ethier seems like a good return for Youklis.

AI
06-02-2012, 05:26 PM
That is what I was thinking about Youk's value. I really think he makes sense for the White Sox. Do you think the Red Sox are looking for pitching?

I think we'd be wise to do so. I like Addison Reed quite a bit but I'm not sure if he's available or not, you never know with Kenny Williams as a GM anything can happen.

1_FrozenNetsFan
06-02-2012, 05:28 PM
Source: WEEI.com

Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington described reports that the team is looking to trade Kevin Youkilis as "inaccurate."
"That’s inaccurate," Cherington said. "Some teams have checked in on him. We haven’t told any teams we plan to trade him. It’s our job to listen if teams have interest. He’s swinging the bat well since coming off the DL and [is] a big part of our team and lineup." We wouldn't expect Cherington to say anything else, as he's obviously not going to confirm that Youk is on the block. While it's possible they might not necessarily be looking to unload him, it's pretty clear that he can be had.

I would say that's a spot on assessment of the situation right now.

bagwell368
06-02-2012, 07:53 PM
If Youkilis plays well he might not be a rental cause the team has a option on him next year

Unless Youk morphs into Mike Schmidt in his prime there is no way in hell the Sox take the $13M option. Youk is also disliked by a number of players, BV, and probabaly folks in the FO.

bagwell368
06-02-2012, 07:57 PM
Be interesting to see what we get back for Youklis. Ethier seems like a good return for Youklis.

Ethier doesn't fit here. Youk is too dicey for the LAD to get on.

I do not believe in the Sox this year, therefore take Youk add two B specs and a good amount of his contract and get back a couple of A-/B+ guys

Greenmonster24
06-02-2012, 10:35 PM
Why don't you believe in the Sox. There only 2 games back on first place and the 3rd best run difference in the AL with the whole outfield on the DL coming back in June and Dice will provide a fresh arm when he comes back and give the rotation depth and Bailey could give the bullpen a solid closer and make it that much stronger. Its to early to give up and winning 10 out of 14 and winning series against Tigers and Bluejays and Phillies all clubs that should finish over .500 and 2 predicted to win the division before the season got to make you feel good.

1_FrozenNetsFan
06-03-2012, 12:48 AM
There are some that feel good easier than others Green. I'm one that feels good.

bagwell368
06-03-2012, 08:22 AM
Why don't you believe in the Sox. There only 2 games back on first place and the 3rd best run difference in the AL with the whole outfield on the DL coming back in June and Dice will provide a fresh arm when he comes back and give the rotation depth and Bailey could give the bullpen a solid closer and make it that much stronger. Its to early to give up and winning 10 out of 14 and winning series against Tigers and Bluejays and Phillies all clubs that should finish over .500 and 2 predicted to win the division before the season got to make you feel good.

I don't disbelieve in them getting into the playoffs, but I do not see them going very far if they do. Since the object is to win, and not just place or show I'd rather start building up for '13-'15.

It's also not at all clear that in the long run this year that Youk is better them WMB. WMB is liable to outplay Youk (based on games played perhaps). Youk is not going to get a key starter or pen or every day player. If it's a 3 way deal it's possible to land a decent pen guy. As for Ethier where would he play? It makes no sense.

GrkGawdofWalkz
06-03-2012, 03:02 PM
I don't disbelieve in them getting into the playoffs, but I do not see them going very far if they do. Since the object is to win, and not just place or show I'd rather start building up for '13-'15.

It's also not at all clear that in the long run this year that Youk is better them WMB. WMB is liable to outplay Youk (based on games played perhaps). Youk is not going to get a key starter or pen or every day player. If it's a 3 way deal it's possible to land a decent pen guy. As for Ethier where would he play? It makes no sense.

All that completely makes sense. I'm more interested in Eovaldi and Webster than I am in Ethier. He's not someone that we particularly need. Ross has been fine.

Celtic AL
06-04-2012, 03:18 AM
out of the 3 teams (Dimondbacks, Phillies & Dodgers) the Dbacks have a better farm system. how ever i doubt they trade any of there 3 top pitching prospects (Trevor Bauer, Tyler Skaggs & Archie Bradley) especially Trevor Bauer who is there untouchable. but the guys to watch for in the dbacks farm system that the sox might want are LHP David Holmberg (w/L: 6-3, Era: 3.20, K's: 75) & CF AJ Pollock ( Avg: 347, RBIs: 13 , SB: 8 ) who is on fire in AAA.

i would do a Youk for Holmberg, Pollock & a PTBNL or some vet who can help this team in a heart beat

RedSoxtober
06-04-2012, 12:52 PM
Never in 10 million years would the Dodgers do Ethier for Youkilis. Youkilis is gonna get a B spect at best, Ethier is a premier bat in his prime.
Youk will net better than a B prospect from a contender needing a bat. Fine if you disagree, but even the industry says the same.

I don't think that Ethier is a premier bat in his prime. Hell, this year is BY FAR the best of his career and he's not even MLB top-10 as an OFer. Add in all positions and he's barely hanging on in the top 20. If/when he falls back to career numbers then he ends up in the mid-30s.

That's a very-good-but-not-great bat.

Ethier is also a FA at season's end. That drops his value down some (though he might end up with Type A compensation).


Exactly. And it's like the Celtics rumors last NBA deadline: contenders look to enhance their roster, not dole out key pieces and mess up a good thing.

Ethier for Youkilis would yield a net loss for LA. With the best record in baseball, the Dodgers will have all the leverage in any deal with the BRS -- unless some LHP bullpen arms are included.
I think this came up because I said that I'd make a swap like that specifically in reference to another poster suggesting that Ethier is nothing special. With the money a wash, the Sox OF a big question mark, we certainly could use someone who is performing pretty well this season so I'd make that deal.

Is the value equal? No, probably not (and I wasn't trying to suggest it was).


No no. he's nothing special. He's a career .310/.385/.528 against RHP. But no, Ross is better. Lets keep Ross in there.

A team like the Dodgers? Not enough drama for him in LA I guess lol

...and .250/.310/.371 which makes him above average but still not special. We happen to play in a division where all but one team features at least two LHP in their rotation so he's neutralized 40% of the time.


I'm trying to figure out Youk's value as a rental player. Jon Heyman was on the Chicago Sports radio station and saying that he thinks the value is something like 2 B prospects, likely both pitchers. Guys who can help very soon. So if that is the case, and I have thought about it more, I wouldn't do Floyd for Youk. Dylan Axelrod and a guy like Simon Castro or Pedro Hernandez is what I am thinking now.
Floyd for Youk makes more sense from our end. Like Ethier, the money is similar and both have a 2013 option. Like Axelrod more than Castro but a pair like that might work.


Unless Youk morphs into Mike Schmidt in his prime there is no way in hell the Sox take the $13M option. Youk is also disliked by a number of players, BV, and probabaly folks in the FO.
Bags, he is not a rental for the team acquiring him. What the Sox would do if (forced) to keep him is irrelevant.


Why don't you believe in the Sox. There only 2 games back on first place and the 3rd best run difference in the AL with the whole outfield on the DL coming back in June and Dice will provide a fresh arm when he comes back and give the rotation depth and Bailey could give the bullpen a solid closer and make it that much stronger. Its to early to give up and winning 10 out of 14 and winning series against Tigers and Bluejays and Phillies all clubs that should finish over .500 and 2 predicted to win the division before the season got to make you feel good.
The AL East has been surprisingly mediocre this year. There's no way a .500 team should be within shouting distance of first place.

That said, I don't trust the OF. Ellsbury was just starting to hit when he went down and once again their are questions about how hard he's working to get back. Crawford's return may be an enigma. I have a hunch we'll be discussing why he didn't have surgery this spring when the offseason rolls around. Seeing those guys on the DL is not quite the source of optimism for me as it is for some.

Crucis
06-04-2012, 01:14 PM
The AL East has been surprisingly mediocre this year. There's no way a .500 team should be within shouting distance of first place.

Soxtober, I think that you need to look at the standings a little more closely and re-assess this statement.

The Rays have a .574 winning %, which is pretty much in line with all other first place teams except the Dodgers, as of today. And because it's only early June, that means that their record simply isn't all that far from those teams that are close to .500. Right now, the Sox are 3 games out of first. They'd be 4 games out even if they were at exactly .500. It's just a matter of the math.

Of course, I suppose that you could say that a .574 WP for an AL East team is "mediocre", but it's still good. But even a .500 team would only be 6 games out of 1st in the NL West where the Dodgers have the best record in baseball.

The number of games is still too small for any .500 team to be out of shouting distance of 1st place (short of the 1st place team having an insanely good record).

Sarge
06-04-2012, 01:25 PM
The AL East has been surprisingly mediocre this year. There's no way a .500 team should be within shouting distance of first place.

I'd have to disagree...I'd say that the AL East as a whole is much better, and the teams have been beating the hell out of each other and that is why no one has run away with it.

RedSoxtober
06-04-2012, 03:27 PM
Soxtober, I think that you need to look at the standings a little more closely and re-assess this statement.

The Rays have a .574 winning %, which is pretty much in line with all other first place teams except the Dodgers, as of today. And because it's only early June, that means that their record simply isn't all that far from those teams that are close to .500. Right now, the Sox are 3 games out of first. They'd be 4 games out even if they were at exactly .500. It's just a matter of the math.

Of course, I suppose that you could say that a .574 WP for an AL East team is "mediocre", but it's still good. But even a .500 team would only be 6 games out of 1st in the NL West where the Dodgers have the best record in baseball.

The number of games is still too small for any .500 team to be out of shouting distance of 1st place (short of the 1st place team having an insanely good record).

Fair enough. It is still early so there's not a lot of time to build a big lead. I mean more of an indictment of the AL East compared to its recent history, where a team has often been .600 or better.

FWIW, I'd say that a team 6 or more games out is not really within shouting distance, especially at this point in the season. Very few leads that large or larger have ever been overcome in the last 2/3 of the season. It could simply be a question of semantics.


I'd have to disagree...I'd say that the AL East as a whole is much better, and the teams have been beating the hell out of each other and that is why no one has run away with it.

Teams from the East have played less than half their games against the rest of the division. Improved competition doesn't explain it that well. It's true, though, that there are no 15-4 splits stacking up this season.

Sarge
06-04-2012, 03:46 PM
Teams from the East have played less than half their games against the rest of the division. Improved competition doesn't explain it that well. It's true, though, that there are no 15-4 splits stacking up this season.

I guess my point is that it is no longer a given that Baltimore and Toronto are push overs.

Crucis
06-04-2012, 04:19 PM
Sarge, I'm not sure that the Jays were every really pushovers over the past, say 8 or so years. They've just seemed decidedly average in a very difficult division.

Crucis
06-04-2012, 04:30 PM
Fair enough. It is still early so there's not a lot of time to build a big lead. I mean more of an indictment of the AL East compared to its recent history, where a team has often been .600 or better.

FWIW, I'd say that a team 6 or more games out is not really within shouting distance, especially at this point in the season. Very few leads that large or larger have ever been overcome in the last 2/3 of the season. It could simply be a question of semantics.

I guess that I would say that 6 games out at this point is still "shouting distance". The Red Sox were 6.5 games out not that long ago, and have closed the gap to only 3 games now.

The issue is that the sample size of number of games played is still relatively small. The Rays would be a .600 (really .611) team with only 2 more wins. And even though AL East teams may not have have played more than about 1/3 of their games against division rivals, if the AL East teams are better across the board, even a team like the Rays may have found it more difficult this year to get 2 more wins at this point in those games to be a .600 team.

Rather than ranking on the AL East for not having a .600 team this season, I'd say that I'm more impressed that every team in the division is above .500. It's impressive that the O's have had the staying power to not start sliding yet. Will that continue? Only time will tell.

It could be a very interesting summer if every team in the division stays in the division race for the long haul.

Sarge
06-05-2012, 08:31 AM
Sarge, I'm not sure that the Jays were every really pushovers over the past, say 8 or so years. They've just seemed decidedly average in a very difficult division.

I can see that. Just seems like they are always a piece or two short.

RedSoxtober
06-05-2012, 10:13 AM
I guess that I would say that 6 games out at this point is still "shouting distance". The Red Sox were 6.5 games out not that long ago, and have closed the gap to only 3 games now.


This is why I qualified my answer saying that we're arguing semantics. Very few times has a team overcome a deficit of 6 games or larger after June 1. Given the history of the game it's not really "shouting distance" even if it does tend to keep the fans involved.

I still think the East is not that great a division this season. It's a combination of the recent bottom teams (BAL, TOR) being stronger AND the recent top teams being weaker -- and not just weaker by comparison.

bagwell368
06-05-2012, 11:04 AM
Wait... Are you saying if youkilis is dealt his option kicks in? I didn't see that. $13M + pro rated this year with his health? This should get an A spec? If a B and a B- get included by us perhaps.

RedSoxtober
06-05-2012, 01:20 PM
Wait... Are you saying if youkilis is dealt his option kicks in? I didn't see that. $13M + pro rated this year with his health? This should get an A spec? If a B and a B- get included by us perhaps.

No. I'm saying only that if Youk is dealt then the other team decides about his option. What the Sox would do with the option becomes completely irrelevant. He's not necessarily a "rental" to a club that has a longer term need at a position he plays and no prospects immediately ready to fill it.

Again, consider the Dodgers. Should they consider upgrading from Loney, then Youk's option might be worthwhile to them with their AAA 1B currently putting up a .213/.315/.447 in Arizona (typically a hitters' paradise). They also don't appear to have a standout 1B at AA. Farm help seems to be a ways away. On the FA side, 4/7 of the potential 1B have options as well leaving Carlos Lee, Loney, and Napoli (not sure why Cot's listed him at 1B with 75% of his starts behind the plate). All that rolls together to suggest that Youk could represent a good value to the Dodgers if they choose to upgrade their production at 1B; Youk not only hits better there but also lasts longer, presents a solution through 2013, and seems a better bet than the few FA targets.

The Cards are 4-9 (after starting 24-18) since Berkman got hurt.

jtchilln
06-05-2012, 10:36 PM
A few years ago the Indians traded Casey Blake to the Dodgers for catching prospect Carlos Santana.....hoping for a deal like that!

BGeer091
06-07-2012, 12:08 PM
I've been studying up on Zach Lee and he seems to be a B/ B+ prospect. Is it really a long shot to say we could trade Youkilis and get him?

I personally don't think so. Especially when the Dodgers have a lot of B pitching prospects. Add that to the fact then in F.A they look to be the favorites for Kershaw.

I think a deal of Youk+ for Lee and Withrow is great for both sides.

Nomar
06-10-2012, 05:30 PM
Would absolutely love a Youk trade for Tyler Skaggs (AZ LHP). We may need to throw in a prospect with youk to land this guy, but id do it in a heartbeat. Looks like a highly projectable lefty who could get called up later this year.

StayOnBoard
06-10-2012, 08:39 PM
Would absolutely love a Youk trade for Tyler Skaggs (AZ LHP). We may need to throw in a prospect with youk to land this guy, but id do it in a heartbeat. Looks like a highly projectable lefty who could get called up later this year.

I'm sorry but so unrealistic.... I'd eat my hat if the DBacks trade Skaggs for anyone (outside maybe a deal for say ... Felix Hernandez), let alone Kevin Youkilis. Absolutely zero chance....

AI
06-10-2012, 08:47 PM
Agree with you, Skaggs is going nowhere. I want Youk gone already so that WMB can play everyday.

Nomar
06-10-2012, 09:32 PM
Daydreaming after a loss haha

jtchilln
06-10-2012, 09:47 PM
What kind of spec you guys think we could get for Morales? Some contender will need a lefty bullpen arm........ B+ spec?

BGeer091
06-10-2012, 09:52 PM
What kind of spec you guys think we could get for Morales? Some contender will need a lefty bullpen arm........ B+ spec?

nah a C at best

Nomar
06-10-2012, 10:13 PM
nah a C at best

I would say lower than C. He flat out sucks.

Station 13
06-10-2012, 10:56 PM
Agree with you, Skaggs is going nowhere. I want Youk gone already so that WMB can play everyday.

This.

AI
06-11-2012, 06:12 AM
How would you guys feel about moving Youkilis to the White Sox for Thornton and a B spec (maybe Nestor Molina)?

gustofer1
06-11-2012, 06:17 AM
How would you guys feel about moving Youkilis to the White Sox for Thornton and a B spec (maybe Nestor Molina)?

I like Thornton, and I believe with a guy like him in the BP we can move Morales and Atchinson, but I think Youk will bring more in a package deal where we can acquire both a BP arm + 2 'spects with the right package. Looking at the big picture, I want to acquire enough names to put us in the running for King Felix or Hamels without offering up 3 of our kids in that deal.

StayOnBoard
06-11-2012, 09:42 AM
How would you guys feel about moving Youkilis to the White Sox for Thornton and a B spec (maybe Nestor Molina)?

I doubt you would get molina only because they just traded for him and gave up santos for him... But I do think thorton and a few prospects would be fair for both sides.

YazMan
06-11-2012, 09:57 AM
The team needs a "shake up" just like when Nomar got traded.
A good wakeup call and trading Youk will do just that.

Gonzo needs to save his body at first and concentrate on hitting.:)
Middlebrooks needs to play every day so he can stay in his groove.:)

Trade Shoppach while he is still batting 278 and before he comes back to reality!;)
We really need a solid right handed bat off the bench that Lavarnway brings.

Also trade Albers and Padilla while he is throwing well to free up spots for Bard, Bailey, Taz or even Prior! :clap:

Bailey, Bard, Acieves, Miller, Atch, Morales, Prior - sounds tight! ;)

Someone besides Papi needs to get hot and STAY hot! :burn:

SoxFan0407
06-11-2012, 10:14 AM
How about Youk, Buccholz, Iglesias, Lars and Ranaudo to the Mariners for Felix Hernandez. Mariners get 2 established MLB players and 3 top prospects, we get our #1 and don't lose much at all.

Lets face it, Lars isn't going to play for the Red Sox because of Gonzo, Iglesias' bat will probably never come around (and he can't seem to stay healthy either) but we have guys that will replace him, Ranaudo would be a hit to our farm but if he's the only real loss for King Felix then so be it and we all seem to want to trade Youk and Buccholz anyway...If you were the Mariners would you entertain the idea? Or is the return not worth the loss of your #1?

StayOnBoard
06-11-2012, 10:23 AM
How about Youk, Buccholz, Iglesias, Lars and Ranaudo to the Mariners for Felix Hernandez. Mariners get 2 established MLB players and 3 top prospects, we get our #1 and don't lose much at all.

Lets face it, Lars isn't going to play for the Red Sox because of Gonzo, Iglesias' bat will probably never come around (and he can't seem to stay healthy either) but we have guys that will replace him, Ranaudo would be a hit to our farm but if he's the only real loss for King Felix then so be it and we all seem to want to trade Youk and Buccholz anyway...If you were the Mariners would you entertain the idea? Or is the return not worth the loss of your #1?

You just explained all the reasons why seattle would not make that deal. :)

gustofer1
06-11-2012, 10:58 AM
How about Youk, Buccholz, Iglesias, Lars and Ranaudo to the Mariners for Felix Hernandez. Mariners get 2 established MLB players and 3 top prospects, we get our #1 and don't lose much at all.

Lets face it, Lars isn't going to play for the Red Sox because of Gonzo, Iglesias' bat will probably never come around (and he can't seem to stay healthy either) but we have guys that will replace him, Ranaudo would be a hit to our farm but if he's the only real loss for King Felix then so be it and we all seem to want to trade Youk and Buccholz anyway...If you were the Mariners would you entertain the idea? Or is the return not worth the loss of your #1?

I might entertain it, but I think the M's wouldn't really want Youkilis unless they could trade him to a contender. That's where I think he will go, and the sooner the better. If we move Youk for 2 prospects, we can use those kids + our kids for Felix.

gustofer1
06-11-2012, 11:02 AM
The team needs a "shake up" just like when Nomar got traded.
A good wakeup call and trading Youk will do just that.

Gonzo needs to save his body at first and concentrate on hitting.:)
Middlebrooks needs to play every day so he can stay in his groove.:)

Trade Shoppach while he is still batting 278 and before he comes back to reality!;)
We really need a solid right handed bat off the bench that Lavarnway brings.

Also trade Albers and Padilla while he is throwing well to free up spots for Bard, Bailey, Taz or even Prior! :clap:

Bailey, Bard, Acieves, Miller, Atch, Morales, Prior - sounds tight! ;)

Someone besides Papi needs to get hot and STAY hot! :burn:

Mark Prior? Like THE Mark Prior? I hope to god he's got any sort of form resembling his old days, if he's somewhat better than Kerry Wood has been the last 1.5+ years I wouldn't mind giving him another shot at the Major Leagues.

I agree we need to move Shoppach, Albers and Padilla. Whenever Bard gets his ***** figured out and realizes he belongs in the BP, that is.

SoxFan0407
06-11-2012, 12:30 PM
I might entertain it, but I think the M's wouldn't really want Youkilis unless they could trade him to a contender. That's where I think he will go, and the sooner the better. If we move Youk for 2 prospects, we can use those kids + our kids for Felix.

Anyone else sniffing a three team swap on the horizon?

gustofer1
06-11-2012, 12:37 PM
Anyone else sniffing a three team swap on the horizon?

That's what I've been thinking all along. If we end up moving Beckett + Youk in a deal to say, Washington, that would make sense if we got some BP help and 2 or 3 prospects. We won't give up Beckett because it would destroy our rotation, unless it's to acquire a guy like Felix or Hamels. At least, I wouldn't, unless there's a definite possibility that the guys we're getting are prospects hand-picked by the M's or Phillies. Reminds me of the Trayvon Robinson deal that almost went down. We were out of our heads trying to make a deal between the Mariners and Dodgers, we can't let that kind of situation happen again.

RedSoxtober
06-11-2012, 02:45 PM
Once the Red Sox trade Kevin Youkilis (and that seems virtually certain according to sources), we'll know what the front office thinks of this team. If they trade for prospects, that means they don't think this bunch can win and given the state of the AL East, maybe they do think that.

The interesting part will be to see if the trade gets expanded. The Sox could certainly part with Youkilis alone. But they have spare outfielders, a spare catcher, and assorted extra relievers, too.Boston Globe

Crucis
06-11-2012, 02:59 PM
Soxtober, I'm not entirely sure that I agree with that Globe comment. It seems to me that unless the Sox make a larger trade, trading Youk alone isn't likely to net the team a MLB player who would be good enough to fill a need for this team. OTOH, if the Sox were to trade him for prospects they could accomplish 2 goals at the same time. Trading Youk to make room for WMB as the everyday 3B-man, and clearing at least one spot on the 40 man roster for someone coming off the 60 day DL at some point.

RedSoxtober
06-11-2012, 03:05 PM
What kind of spec you guys think we could get for Morales? Some contender will need a lefty bullpen arm........ B+ spec?
B+ prospect if dealt to a contender with a legit need, B otherwise.


I would say lower than C. He flat out sucks.
Seriously? You've got a pretty weird barometer. 26 yr old lefty with a mid-90s fastball who strikes out three batters every four innings. On the season he's stranded 11/12 inherited runners and has an ERA a few ticks above 3.00. On the who opponents are hitting .236/.324/.326 off of him. Lefties drop to .211/.311/.237. Valentine wanted to make him into a general purpose SU guy but he's clearly better as a situational lefty.

If you actually think numbers like that suck then I cannot imagine what the rotation and bullpen would be like on the team you GM. They'd never lose.

Just in case you DO think the numbers are not very impressive, then you might want to look just a touch deeper and see that he's negatively affected by Fenway. On the road opponents drop down to .200/.233/.300 with a microscopic 0.82 ERA and 0.818 WHIP with 12K/1BB/11.0IP. Think ANY team in MLB would be worried about him not pitching well at Fenway if they traded for him?


I like Thornton, and I believe with a guy like him in the BP we can move Morales and Atchinson, but I think Youk will bring more in a package deal where we can acquire both a BP arm + 2 'spects with the right package. Looking at the big picture, I want to acquire enough names to put us in the running for King Felix or Hamels without offering up 3 of our kids in that deal.
You've mentioned moving Atchison several times and I do not understand at all why. 0.971 whip, 3.86k/bb, 1.32ERA, .211/.250/.260, ... where do you look to find a single number on him that you don't like? 2010?

Beyond the baseball success (check the trends, he's rounded into quite a nice RP) I love his story of giving up a decent career in the JPL to come back to the US hoping for a job so that he could provide better care for his handicapped daughter (born without a muscle/tendon that makes a lot of manipulative motor skills impossible). He's one of the good guys and I'll root for him for a long, long time.


Anyone else sniffing a three team swap on the horizon?
The King Felix stuff is always ridiculous. Even less sure that I'd trade five guys, including two MLB players and a top pick, for two seasons of him.

gustofer1
06-11-2012, 03:24 PM
If you actually think numbers like that suck then I cannot imagine what the rotation and bullpen would be like on the team you GM. They'd never lose.

You've mentioned moving Atchison several times and I do not understand at all why. 0.971 whip, 3.86k/bb, 1.32ERA, .211/.250/.260, ... where do you look to find a single number on him that you don't like? 2010?

Beyond the baseball success (check the trends, he's rounded into quite a nice RP) I love his story of giving up a decent career in the JPL to come back to the US hoping for a job so that he could provide better care for his handicapped daughter (born without a muscle/tendon that makes a lot of manipulative motor skills impossible). He's one of the good guys and I'll root for him for a long, long time.


The King Felix stuff is always ridiculous. Even less sure that I'd trade five guys, including two MLB players and a top pick, for two seasons of him.

I LoL'd at that.

I wasn't entirely informed on Atch's numbers, nor his background, so I'll give you the points on that. I was simply taking into account how many deals we'll probably end up making and factoring in the amount of turn-over we're going to have moving forward. We're probably going to end up shipping off at least 1 BP piece if we don't start gaining ground in the division.

As for the Felix ordeal, I doubt we'd give up a whole hand's worth of kids to not lock him up. Same we did with A-Gon. If we move Ellsbury or Buch, 2 guys we have to look at extending at the same time, we could possibly make an extension happen with Felix.

RedSoxtober
06-11-2012, 03:56 PM
I LoL'd at that.

I wasn't entirely informed on Atch's numbers, nor his background, so I'll give you the points on that. I was simply taking into account how many deals we'll probably end up making and factoring in the amount of turn-over we're going to have moving forward. We're probably going to end up shipping off at least 1 BP piece if we don't start gaining ground in the division.
Dealing BP makes sense I guess but Atchison's a guy that has not, and probably will not, cost a lot of money ($510K right now).


As for the Felix ordeal, I doubt we'd give up a whole hand's worth of kids to not lock him up. Same we did with A-Gon. If we move Ellsbury or Buch, 2 guys we have to look at extending at the same time, we could possibly make an extension happen with Felix.
The negative side of Hernandez is that he'll have over 2000IP on his arm by the time he hits FA. Signing him for his ages 29+ season could prove costly. I was similarly bearish on Santana when the Twins wanted Lester plus three others (possibly including Masterson) and still feel pretty good about avoiding that deal... and Santana had considerably fewer innings under his belt. Hernandez is showing a similar trend in several of his peripherals as well (though k/9 is still trending up).

gustofer1
06-11-2012, 04:00 PM
The negative side of Hernandez is that he'll have over 2000IP on his arm by the time he hits FA. Signing him for his ages 29+ season could prove costly. I was similarly bearish on Santana when the Twins wanted Lester plus three others (possibly including Masterson) and still feel pretty good about avoiding that deal... and Santana had considerably fewer innings under his belt.

So would you extend him for 4 years with a 5th year option? I think he'd be a better option than Hamels, but apparently Greinke is a name that's available. I wonder what kind of kings ransom the Brewers are going to be asking for him, considering what they gave up to acquire him.

RedSoxtober
06-11-2012, 04:05 PM
So would you extend him for 4 years with a 5th year option? I think he'd be a better option than Hamels, but apparently Greinke is a name that's available. I wonder what kind of kings ransom the Brewers are going to be asking for him, considering what they gave up to acquire him.

No. If anything I'd consider replacing his remaining two years with something like $85M/4yr and convince him that he can still hit FA as a relative kid.

No interest in Greinke. I think he'd fizzle under the lights.

Still prefer someone like Hamels who has relatively little wear and tear.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-11-2012, 04:55 PM
Apparently the Pirates have been inquiring about Youk.

Crucis
06-11-2012, 06:33 PM
No interest in Greinke. I think he'd fizzle under the lights..

I absolutely agree on this. I'd worry that the kid would fold up under the pressure of playing in a big market. I think that he's much better off in a smaller midwest market.

gustofer1
06-11-2012, 06:40 PM
Apparently the Pirates have been inquiring about Youk.

That doesn't surprise me, but who do they have that fits our needs?

Nomar
06-11-2012, 07:12 PM
That doesn't surprise me, but who do they have that fits our needs?

They have great arms in the farm and the Majors.

Some guys i would think could be involved would be Jeff Locke or Kyle McPherson.

Heredia would be nice but i doubt that would happen.

Sarge
06-11-2012, 07:57 PM
That doesn't surprise me, but who do they have that fits our needs?

AJ Burnette.....

Nomar
06-11-2012, 08:15 PM
AJ Burnette.....

no

SirHizz
06-11-2012, 09:55 PM
Anything but prospects doesn't make sense at this point. Only contenders will trade for Youk and there is zero chance anyone parts with a significant arm for a bat. Team want to get better...Youk for an arm is a lateral move at best.

But you have to decide very soon, can't keep WMB on the bench forever, he either goes down (wouldn't be the worst idea, he could keep working on his plate discipline) or you make him the everyday 3B.

I'd be inclined to throw the season away and trade some parts we might get something significant for. Some BP-arms (Morales?) some Outfielders (Sweeney?) and possibly Youkilis, Aviles and Shoppach. There is a good chance we wouldn't be much worse without them and even bolster our farm-system.
If everything goes wrong over the next couple of weeks, even Beckett could be heading somewhere else. If most of the trade-candidates stay put (Greinke/Marcum ; Garza ; Hamels), Beckett would be the best thing available on the market.

Nomar
06-11-2012, 10:18 PM
Anything but prospects doesn't make sense at this point. Only contenders will trade for Youk and there is zero chance anyone parts with a significant arm for a bat. Team want to get better...Youk for an arm is a lateral move at best.

But you have to decide very soon, can't keep WMB on the bench forever, he either goes down (wouldn't be the worst idea, he could keep working on his plate discipline) or you make him the everyday 3B.

I'd be inclined to throw the season away and trade some parts we might get something significant for. Some BP-arms (Morales?) some Outfielders (Sweeney?) and possibly Youkilis, Aviles and Shoppach. There is a good chance we wouldn't be much worse without them and even bolster our farm-system.
If everything goes wrong over the next couple of weeks, even Beckett could be heading somewhere else. If most of the trade-candidates stay put (Greinke/Marcum ; Garza ; Hamels), Beckett would be the best thing available on the market.

Doubt we trade Beckett, but for the most part agreed.

I think its imperative that we play Kalish and WMB as much as possible (maybe sit Kalish vs. some lefties). Youk has to go, and i think we should get rid of sweeney as well to free up time for Kalish.

elements1985
06-11-2012, 10:55 PM
Why, at such a critical juncture in the season, are we wasting so much time on Youkilis? It's obviously a distant second or third to pitching, but all this shuffling is coming at a detriment to winning ballgames. Inane and futile are the only words that come to mind.

And in addition to playing poorly, he won't stop whining at umpires! Get him out of here. This reflects poorly on Cherington, IMO. I don't think this Youkilis situation has been handled competently -- especially for all the disruption this caused with Gonzalez/Middlebrooks, and what little return we'll likely see in a deal (lol at a proven #3 starter, per Pete Abraham).

Nomar
06-11-2012, 11:06 PM
Agreed, were not getting anything special for Youk, just ditch the guy already.

elements1985
06-11-2012, 11:29 PM
Agreed, were not getting anything special for Youk, just ditch the guy already.

With all do respect to Youkilis' achievements in Boston, this was a no-brainer from the start. Who knows what impact RF has had on Gonzalez's offense, plus Middlebrooks has been deprived of AB's. Dumb management, IMO.

gustofer1
06-11-2012, 11:43 PM
Agreed, were not getting anything special for Youk, just ditch the guy already.

Just move him for some BP help, maybe to Pittsburg or the Chi-Sox. WMB needs some AB's so he can be prepared for next year. Whether Youk is hitting or not, his value to this team is on another team. The more he plays for us, the less Middlebrooks gets to play, plain and simple.

RedSoxtober
06-12-2012, 10:01 AM
With all do respect to Youkilis' achievements in Boston, this was a no-brainer from the start. Who knows what impact RF has had on Gonzalez's offense, plus Middlebrooks has been deprived of AB's. Dumb management, IMO.

This team has spent 8 days above .500 and one DAY out of LAST place in the AL East. Youkillis is hardly the only problem to be solved and the Sox FO may have the most sober assessment of the team in all of New England.


Agreed, were not getting anything special for Youk, just ditch the guy already.

There have been a half dozen or so teams scouting him since his return from the DL. Like it or not, you play him until a deal is made.

Sarge
06-12-2012, 12:20 PM
no

You do know I was joking.

papipapsmanny
06-12-2012, 03:49 PM
sometime guys you have to just call it a season and not do anything stupid

Im not saying were out of it, but there is no reason to try and ship youk and specs for another really good player, that we have to sign.

Just trade youk for the best spec you can get. Let these bad contracts just flow out the system and be smart in FA and make a trade or something.

Nomar
06-12-2012, 05:25 PM
Scouts are saying Youk looks awful, and that he has almost no value. At this point i just want him off the field, getting pointless as hes not building value really, or any substantial amount of it.

elements1985
06-12-2012, 09:47 PM
Scouts are saying Youk looks awful, and that he has almost no value. At this point i just want him off the field, getting pointless as hes not building value really, or any substantial amount of it.

And he batted 3rd tonight! This looks awful on Cherinton and Valentines' end, IMO.

elements1985
06-12-2012, 09:54 PM
This team has spent 8 days above .500 and one DAY out of LAST place in the AL East. Youkillis is hardly the only problem to be solved and the Sox FO may have the most sober assessment of the team in all of New England.

Nobody said Youkilis is the team's only problem. But to toy with your best player's positioning and deprive a promising rookie of AB's during a key part of the season -- especially for what looks to be junk in return -- is pathetic management, IMO.

And they still obstinately stick him into important positions in the line-up! Who is this team trying to pull a fast one on -- like scouts and opposing GM's really believe Youkilis is our #3 hitter. Awful....

sager729
06-12-2012, 09:55 PM
I don't see a lot of Red Sox games, but does he really look that bad? I am a ChiSox fan and think that he might help but if he looks that bad then maybe not.

JMP83
06-12-2012, 10:11 PM
Scouts are saying Youk looks awful, and that he has almost no value. At this point i just want him off the field, getting pointless as hes not building value really, or any substantial amount of it.

Saw that, an "anonymous" scout, could be from a team looking to trade from him and wants to drive his price down.

Or he really could look that bad to scouts.

Melo15
06-12-2012, 11:53 PM
I'm honestly sick of watching Youk play. Love the guy and respect everything he's done for us but its time to move on.

RedSoxtober
06-13-2012, 08:04 AM
Nobody said Youkilis is the team's only problem. But to toy with your best player's positioning and deprive a promising rookie of AB's during a key part of the season -- especially for what looks to be junk in return -- is pathetic management, IMO.

And they still obstinately stick him into important positions in the line-up! Who is this team trying to pull a fast one on -- like scouts and opposing GM's really believe Youkilis is our #3 hitter. Awful....

What about their sober assessment of the season? What if they really have already determined that the season is done and they're playing guys primarily to showcase? You can dislike it all you want but this IS the way things are done in MLB. Pull Youk or play him behind Middlebrooks and you get nothing for him at all (literally, not figuratively).

Crucis
06-13-2012, 08:32 AM
What about their sober assessment of the season? What if they really have already determined that the season is done and they're playing guys primarily to showcase? You can dislike it all you want but this IS the way things are done in MLB. Pull Youk or play him behind Middlebrooks and you get nothing for him at all (literally, not figuratively).

Exactly, Soxtober. This is one of the things that I find most annoying about reading baseball posts... people that don't understand or refuse to accept that things are done a certain way in MLB, and MLB isn't little league or fantasy league baseball.

RedSoxtober
06-13-2012, 08:55 AM
I understand what element is saying. The problem is that one team cannot change the trend of the entire league.

Crucis
06-13-2012, 09:15 AM
I understand what element is saying. The problem is that one team cannot change the trend of the entire league.

Entirely true. And more than that, why would they want to do so?

TragicallyHip
06-13-2012, 10:24 AM
To be honest, I don't think the Sox will be able to get much for Youk alone. Considering his age, injury history, firey attitude and cost the Sox are going to have to package him to get anything of value in return.

Should've kept Beltre.

gustofer1
06-13-2012, 10:28 AM
Nobody said Youkilis is the team's only problem. But to toy with your best player's positioning and deprive a promising rookie of AB's during a key part of the season -- especially for what looks to be junk in return -- is pathetic management, IMO.

And they still obstinately stick him into important positions in the line-up! Who is this team trying to pull a fast one on -- like scouts and opposing GM's really believe Youkilis is our #3 hitter. Awful....

Yea he wouldn't hit 3rd on any team in the league. One reason BV would do this is to provide some protection for him, but with the way Gonzo is hitting that isn't doing him a favor.

Not only that, but he can't hit a fastball in fastball counts anyway. Just get rid of him and throw in a few other guys, get us some prospect(s) and move on with Will Middlebrooks hitting between Gonzalez and Papi.

gustofer1
06-13-2012, 10:28 AM
to be honest, i don't think the sox will be able to get much for youk alone. Considering his age, injury history, firey attitude and cost the sox are going to have to package him to get anything of value in return.

should've kept beltre.

+++++++1

RedSoxtober
06-13-2012, 11:32 AM
Yea he wouldn't hit 3rd on any team in the league. One reason BV would do this is to provide some protection for him, but with the way Gonzo is hitting that isn't doing him a favor.

Not only that, but he can't hit a fastball in fastball counts anyway. Just get rid of him and throw in a few other guys, get us some prospect(s) and move on with Will Middlebrooks hitting between Gonzalez and Papi.

The lineup issue is completely exaggerated with a manager who's used something like 56 lineups in 62 games. This is like saying that we were trying to convince teams that A-Gon was done as a player when he got dropped to #6 or that Nava was a future HOF because he was leading off. With Valentine in charge batting order position means little.

Crucis
06-13-2012, 03:11 PM
To be honest, I don't think the Sox will be able to get much for Youk alone. Considering his age, injury history, firey attitude and cost the Sox are going to have to package him to get anything of value in return.

Should've kept Beltre.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

Who'da thunk that Beltre would finally break his string of off-years in non-contract years?

Crucis
06-13-2012, 03:13 PM
Yea he wouldn't hit 3rd on any team in the league. One reason BV would do this is to provide some protection for him, but with the way Gonzo is hitting that isn't doing him a favor.

Not only that, but he can't hit a fastball in fastball counts anyway. Just get rid of him and throw in a few other guys, get us some prospect(s) and move on with Will Middlebrooks hitting between Gonzalez and Papi.

What makes you think that the Sox aren't trying to do exactly that? Just because a deal hasn't been made yet doesn't mean that they aren't trying to make one.

SirHizz
06-13-2012, 07:04 PM
Who'da thunk that Beltre would finally break his string of off-years in non-contract years?

Always a gamble, I guess. I would have kept Beltre as well, I think his contract with the Rangers is fair, for both parties. 1-2 different signings (Beltre and Holliday) could have spared us the likes of Lackey and Crawford. We'd look a whole lot better.

Of course Beltre would have blocked WMB, but Middlebrooks as a trade-chip is a sexy thought as well.

elements1985
06-13-2012, 07:44 PM
What about their sober assessment of the season? What if they really have already determined that the season is done and they're playing guys primarily to showcase? You can dislike it all you want but this IS the way things are done in MLB. Pull Youk or play him behind Middlebrooks and you get nothing for him at all (literally, not figuratively).

You're correct that teams showcase players all the time -- but this is unique, insofar as weaving in Youkilis disrupts two important players (one of which being this team's highest-paid, most important piece); and therefore disadvantages this team during perhaps the most critical point in the season.

And I don't buy the idea that the BRS are playing Youkilis because they've conceded the 2012 season (only way they would 'give up', IMO, is if the key injuries to Ellsbury, Bailey & Crawford look to be season-ending; or if the FO is completely disenchanted with Lester and Beckett). If they wouldn't blow it up it last winter, I can't imagine them throwing in the towel at this point -- that would seem somewhat inconsistent with their modus operandi.

I just call this bad management. It won't kill Gonzalez to play a little RF -- in fact I think can all agree it's refreshing, given this culture -- but to disadvantage your highest-paid, most important player for such a dud -- a near replacement-level performing player -- is beyond absurdity IMO. Who knows if AG's struggles are linked to shuffling from 1st to RF....

And they bat Youkilis 3rd! That's the kicker of it all. Whether it's Valentine or Cherington -- whoever is calling these shots, I'm beginning to question their ability to manage this team/organization.

Like Michael Holley said earlier: there's a chance Youkilis' value could've been higher had the BRS just sat him upon returning from the DL. Every game, the value plummets more and more.

Nomar
06-13-2012, 07:49 PM
For me, yes it wouldve been great to keep Beltre, but the problem isnt whos at third, its the fact that we cant get rid of him (Youk). Hes like a hangnail right now.

RedSoxtober
06-14-2012, 09:48 AM
For me, yes it wouldve been great to keep Beltre, but the problem isnt whos at third, its the fact that we cant get rid of him (Youk). Hes like a hangnail right now.
Equating Beltre with Youk is rewriting history. The decision to let Beltre go was tied to acquiring A-Gon. We could not both acquire him AND afford him if we'd signed Beltre.

If anyone wants to play the alternate outcomes game, what if we HAD kept Beltre? Right now we'd be complaining about an ineffective 1B hitting .220.


You're correct that teams showcase players all the time -- but this is unique, insofar as weaving in Youkilis disrupts two important players (one of which being this team's highest-paid, most important piece); and therefore disadvantages this team during perhaps the most critical point in the season.
Showcasing Youk does NOT require this. That Valentine believes the best configuration includes sending Gonzalez to RF says something about him and something about the injury riddled team he manages. As I think Crucis said earlier, if the OF were healthy we'd never have seen the configurations we've seen. Most likely Middlebrooks would be at AAA. However, we've sorely lacked offensive punch from the OF and A-Gon playing out there helps.


And I don't buy the idea that the BRS are playing Youkilis because they've conceded the 2012 season (only way they would 'give up', IMO, is if the key injuries to Ellsbury, Bailey & Crawford look to be season-ending; or if the FO is completely disenchanted with Lester and Beckett). If they wouldn't blow it up it last winter, I can't imagine them throwing in the towel at this point -- that would seem somewhat inconsistent with their modus operandi.
The FO does not need to have "conceded the 2012 season" to be showcasing Youk. A sober assessment can just as easily say that it's extremely unlikely that they move forward so they'll not pursue extraordinary measures to improve the club.

As for the modus operandi, you're way off on that. The Moneyball enthusiasts have always played the first two months of the season to determine what they have, the next two months of the season to see how they can improve, and the last two months to try to make the playoffs. That has been the modus operandi. They just hit the end of the evaluation phase so weighing decisions based on present or future help would be completely normal for them.

Playing Youk as a showcase would not be throwing in the towel. It would be part of the improvement phase. The primary question is whether you seek help for this season or 2013 and beyond.


I just call this bad management. It won't kill Gonzalez to play a little RF -- in fact I think can all agree it's refreshing, given this culture -- but to disadvantage your highest-paid, most important player for such a dud -- a near replacement-level performing player -- is beyond absurdity IMO. Who knows if AG's struggles are linked to shuffling from 1st to RF....
A-Gon before playing RF: .273/.347/.422
A-Gon since playing RF: .267/.318/.414

Not a dramatic difference. OBP is down but that's not a big surprise if he's pressing trying to get his offense going. Doesn't seem like playing RF is that big a factor.


And they bat Youkilis 3rd! That's the kicker of it all. Whether it's Valentine or Cherington -- whoever is calling these shots, I'm beginning to question their ability to manage this team/organization.
Gimme a break. He batted 3rd ONE DAY. Next day? DNP. Previous day? 6th. You're "kicker of it all" is merely a function Valentine changing his lineup every day. He's a long, long way from Tito who preferred to keep a settled lineup and let guys settle into routines.

Maybe THAT (the unsettled lineup) is what is affecting A-Gon and many others.

RedSoxtober
06-18-2012, 01:15 PM
Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

Who'da thunk that Beltre would finally break his string of off-years in non-contract years?

Just staggering around the interwebs and hit on one other aspect of the decision not to re-sign Beltre: our compensation was a couple of dudes named Blake Swihart and Jackie Bradley Jr.

I'd do that again.

BGeer091
06-18-2012, 02:55 PM
Just staggering around the interwebs and hit on one other aspect of the decision not to re-sign Beltre: our compensation was a couple of dudes named Blake Swihart and Jackie Bradley Jr.

I'd do that again.

Yeah agreed!!!

Crucis
06-18-2012, 03:09 PM
Just staggering around the interwebs and hit on one other aspect of the decision not to re-sign Beltre: our compensation was a couple of dudes named Blake Swihart and Jackie Bradley Jr.

I'd do that again.

Yes, true, Soxtober. I think that it's one of the reason that Theo made signings and trades for players he felt would be Type A free agents, because he knew that he could get those 2 draft picks. In Beltre's case, for something like $10M for 1 year, the Sox basically got Beltre and 2 top draft picks. Sounds like a pretty good scenario to me.

I suppose that one can debate the relative value of the Vmart trade when one compares the value of the prospects traded to Cleveland vs. 1.5 yrs of Vmart and the draft picks the Sox received when he left for free agency.

Regardless, people do seem to forget the value of the draft picks received as FA compensation in these situations.

RedSoxtober
06-18-2012, 04:18 PM
Even the player return makes the V-Mart trade make sense IMO. I mentioned in another thread that Masterson has returned to form (94, 84, 121, and 87 ERA+ since the trade). I don't think Hagadone has been much like what his ceiling projected to be (23K in 21.2IP but also 22H and 11BB translating to a 4.97ERA). Currently the best pitcher in the 3-P deal is Bryan Price (2-1, 2.29ERA, 1.075WHIP, 35.1IP/33K/11BB) but he's in his third run at AA and getting old for the competition.

At any rate, I'm moving in with those who consider playing Youk for trade value is a waste of time. Give deference to Middlebrooks over Youk rather than the other way around. We're not winning either way but at least the games will be more competitive (they're 21-13 in games Middlebrooks starts) and fun to watch.

Nomar
06-18-2012, 06:13 PM
Even the player return makes the V-Mart trade make sense IMO. I mentioned in another thread that Masterson has returned to form (94, 84, 121, and 87 ERA+ since the trade). I don't think Hagadone has been much like what his ceiling projected to be (23K in 21.2IP but also 22H and 11BB translating to a 4.97ERA). Currently the best pitcher in the 3-P deal is Bryan Price (2-1, 2.29ERA, 1.075WHIP, 35.1IP/33K/11BB) but he's in his third run at AA and getting old for the competition.

At any rate, I'm moving in with those who consider playing Youk for trade value is a waste of time. Give deference to Middlebrooks over Youk rather than the other way around. We're not winning either way but at least the games will be more competitive (they're 21-13 in games Middlebrooks starts) and fun to watch.

:clap::cheer:

gustofer1
06-18-2012, 07:01 PM
Just staggering around the interwebs and hit on one other aspect of the decision not to re-sign Beltre: our compensation was a couple of dudes named Blake Swihart and Jackie Bradley Jr.

I'd do that again.

Yeah, no matter how good Beltre looks in Texas, those kids are quite the compensation. Just wonder if we're going to have room for them, I assume we will considering signing Ellsbury is highly improbable. Good find, wherever you saw that at :)

gustofer1
06-18-2012, 07:04 PM
Yes, true, Soxtober. I think that it's one of the reason that Theo made signings and trades for players he felt would be Type A free agents, because he knew that he could get those 2 draft picks. In Beltre's case, for something like $10M for 1 year, the Sox basically got Beltre and 2 top draft picks. Sounds like a pretty good scenario to me.

I suppose that one can debate the relative value of the Vmart trade when one compares the value of the prospects traded to Cleveland vs. 1.5 yrs of Vmart and the draft picks the Sox received when he left for free agency.

Regardless, people do seem to forget the value of the draft picks received as FA compensation in these situations.

I completely agree, and I'm one of them. I'm coming to learn more and more about why the FO does what they do, and I think if Ortiz is a type-A we will not re-sign him. I would love to have him around, but odds are we can call up Lavarnway and, depending on who we get this July/offseason, can push Salty to DH against RHP while we search for a DH vs LHP (Quentin?)

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-18-2012, 09:22 PM
Red Sox intensify effort to trade Youk


The Red Sox have intensified their efforts to trade Kevin Youkilis over the past 24-48 hours, according to Jon Paul Morosi and Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. One high-ranking National League official told the FOX Sports duo that Youkilis is being "shopped everywhere." The Red Sox are willing to include cash to facilitate the acquisition of better players in return.

Rosenthal and Morosi list the Diamondbacks, White Sox, Dodgers, Indians, and Pirates as teams with interest in Youkilis. They also note that the Reds are not interested, despite Youk's Cincinnati roots.

Scouts are expected to be on-hand this weekend to watch Youkilis and the Red Sox take on the Marlins. The 33-year-old corner infielder is in the midst of a 1-for-21 slump and has seen his triple slash line plummet to .215/.301/.345. He'll earn more than $7MM over the remainder of this season, and an acquiring team would have the option of picking up a $13MM option or paying a $1MM buyout.

Recently, it was reported that D-backs GM Kevin Towers was "reluctant" to pursue Youkilis.

MLBTR

Nomar
06-18-2012, 10:11 PM
Red Sox intensify effort to trade Youk



MLBTR

Good news there. This is getting ugly though, they really need to get rid of him fast now since its going to get VERY public in the upcoming days. I would expect him to start tomorrow and the game after and by thursday he'll hopefully have a new clubhouse to move on to. Time to move on.

bagwell368
06-18-2012, 10:18 PM
This mess is killing the team in the clubhouse and in the field. Get what we can get by a week from now. If we can't get anything, then DFA him and keep trying. He got his shot to shine. MWB's time now.

Nomar
06-18-2012, 10:21 PM
Amen

Crucis
06-18-2012, 10:41 PM
I completely agree, and I'm one of them. I'm coming to learn more and more about why the FO does what they do, and I think if Ortiz is a type-A we will not re-sign him. I would love to have him around, but odds are we can call up Lavarnway and, depending on who we get this July/offseason, can push Salty to DH against RHP while we search for a DH vs LHP (Quentin?)

I'm not so sure that the Sox would let Ortiz walk if he continues to have a good season. That'd be 2 really good seasons since his 2 seasons starting with those bad slumps. I'm not so sure that it'd be worth the cost to let him walk. Also remember that the Sox would have to offer him arbitration, like they did this season, and Ortiz would have to decline it. This past off season, he accepted arbitration, and I'm not sure that I see any strong reason why he'd decline it this coming off-season. Accepting it would pretty much guarantee him a salary similar to (or a little higher than) the nearly $14M number for this season. That might be better than he could get in free agency at his age.


Honestly, I don't think that Ortiz is a good example of this situation because as an older DH, he doesn't really have the leverage to get a really good multi-year deal (perhaps 2 years at most), and DH's have rarely gotten great deals. Ortiz seems to be in a position where if the Sox continue to offer arbitration in the hope that he'll walk (so that they can get the draft picks), it might be in his best interest (financially speaking) to keep accepting arbitration to keep getting a strong salary.

EEasyA
06-18-2012, 10:53 PM
Bye Youk.Time to Move on.I would package him and beckett in a trade.time to clean house.

Crucis
06-18-2012, 11:16 PM
Bye Youk.Time to Move on.I would package him and beckett in a trade.time to clean house.

And exactly WHO do you think is going to want those two? Just because you (or the team) may want to be rid of them does not mean that there's a team out there willing to take them.

I think that some teams that might like Youk may wait to see if he gets better or if the Sox just DFA him and try to pick him up for a bag of balls.

gustofer1
06-19-2012, 04:03 AM
And exactly WHO do you think is going to want those two? Just because you (or the team) may want to be rid of them does not mean that there's a team out there willing to take them edit:(Both).

I think that some teams that might like Youk may wait to see if he gets better or if the Sox just DFA him and try to pick him up for a bag of balls.

Agreed. At one time (before Youk came back from the DL) I thought they were worth something more as a package, but clearly Youk has devalued himself so much that I'd rather ship him off and donate $5-6 MM for a prospect of value. Beckett, however, I would keep. I think he has been better than Lester for the majority of the season, and I would hold onto all the pitching that we have, including Lester and Buchholz. I've waffled back and forth on this, but there's no chance we find guys with this much talent for the price we're paying them (Buchholz/Lester) this off-season, also taking into consideration their age and past performances.

goshhhjosh
06-19-2012, 09:00 AM
It'll be best for both parties if Youk gets dealt sooner rather than later. It's recently been known that Youkilis can be a divisive presence in the clubhouse. He's also not helping the team on the field.

The recent games that I've watched it seems as though he's been disinterested. Pretty soon his claim to fame will be his marriage to Tom Brady's sister. Good riddance.

RedSoxtober
06-19-2012, 10:06 AM
Yeah, no matter how good Beltre looks in Texas, those kids are quite the compensation. Just wonder if we're going to have room for them, I assume we will considering signing Ellsbury is highly improbable. Good find, wherever you saw that at :)
SoxProspects.com keeps a complete list of draft picks along with some footnotes about which picks were received as compensation. Just put them together.


I'm not so sure that the Sox would let Ortiz walk if he continues to have a good season. That'd be 2 really good seasons since his 2 seasons starting with those bad slumps. I'm not so sure that it'd be worth the cost to let him walk. Also remember that the Sox would have to offer him arbitration, like they did this season, and Ortiz would have to decline it. This past off season, he accepted arbitration, and I'm not sure that I see any strong reason why he'd decline it this coming off-season. Accepting it would pretty much guarantee him a salary similar to (or a little higher than) the nearly $14M number for this season. That might be better than he could get in free agency at his age.
I think he's going to get a 2yr deal from the Sox and then retire. Bags will blow a gasket but I am almost certain of it happening. The Sox roster will (should?) be in a state of flux and biz side will want the feel-good carryover and the ops side will justify his resurgence as something more than a swan song.

Crucis
06-19-2012, 02:18 PM
I think he's going to get a 2yr deal from the Sox and then retire. Bags will blow a gasket but I am almost certain of it happening. The Sox roster will (should?) be in a state of flux and biz side will want the feel-good carryover and the ops side will justify his resurgence as something more than a swan song.

I was in the "let Ortiz walk" camp this past off-season. But if Papi continues his fine season, I now think that it'd be a mistake to let him walk. The Ortiz that we've seen the last season and a half is a DH that we should absolutely want to keep around.

Also, I don't know if it's my imagination, but Ortiz looks to be in better shape this year than I've seen him in a number of years. He doesn't look quite as chunky as in past year, and he actually looks pretty good running the bases (for a man of his size). This seems to be a good sign that he's paying more attention to his conditioning, which is even more important for a guy of his age. But if Ortiz can stay healthy, there's no reason to think that he couldn't continue to be the best DH in the league for another 2 years.

1_FrozenNetsFan
06-19-2012, 04:04 PM
I was in the "let Ortiz walk" camp this past off-season. But if Papi continues his fine season, I now think that it'd be a mistake to let him walk. The Ortiz that we've seen the last season and a half is a DH that we should absolutely want to keep around.

Also, I don't know if it's my imagination, but Ortiz looks to be in better shape this year than I've seen him in a number of years. He doesn't look quite as chunky as in past year, and he actually looks pretty good running the bases (for a man of his size). This seems to be a good sign that he's paying more attention to his conditioning, which is even more important for a guy of his age. But if Ortiz can stay healthy, there's no reason to think that he couldn't continue to be the best DH in the league for another 2 years.

I'm a unabashed fan of the Big Guy...now if he goes south with his hitting I'll be willing to move on.
It isn't your imagination about how Papi looks. He's lost plenty of middle lbs. and every now and then he beats out plays he wouldn't have in the past. $$$ be damned if he's producing like he is. I ask anyone to tell me who in this organization can take his spot and produce like he is??? Now that we've established that,!...who outside this organization could we get to replace his #s? I'm thinkin NOBODY!

RedSoxtober
06-19-2012, 04:43 PM
Also, I don't know if it's my imagination, but Ortiz looks to be in better shape this year than I've seen him in a number of years. He doesn't look quite as chunky as in past year, and he actually looks pretty good running the bases (for a man of his size). This seems to be a good sign that he's paying more attention to his conditioning, which is even more important for a guy of his age. But if Ortiz can stay healthy, there's no reason to think that he couldn't continue to be the best DH in the league for another 2 years.

It's not a mirage. He had a bad checkout (very high cholesterol) during the off season that caused him to change his workout and completely revamp his diet. Dropped 15-25 pounds.

Crucis
06-19-2012, 06:02 PM
I'm a unabashed fan of the Big Guy...now if he goes south with his hitting I'll be willing to move on.
It isn't your imagination about how Papi looks. He's lost plenty of middle lbs. and every now and then he beats out plays he wouldn't have in the past. $$$ be damned if he's producing like he is. I ask anyone to tell me who in this organization can take his spot and produce like he is??? Now that we've established that,!...who outside this organization could we get to replace his #s? I'm thinkin NOBODY!

If I'm not mistaken, over the past season and a half, Papi's been the best DH in the game, so I don't think that finding a player who could *truly* replace his numbers is really possible without getting a near MVP caliber player.

Internally, I think that if Lavarnway could produce like people think he can, he'd be a reasonable replacement though probably not replacing 100% of Papi's numbers, at least for a little while, if ever.

Anyways, I think that Papi's trimmer figure and his solid season to date are a good sign that he'd probably be a good risk to keep around for another 2 years. I also love how he's hitting lefties very well and going the other way much more often than he used to. Those are both good signs to me that he's adjusted his hitting approach.

RedSoxtober
06-21-2012, 09:00 AM
The sooner the Red Sox can get back to a set lineup - one that doesn’t include juggling Adrian Gonzalez between first base and right field and Kevin Youkilis between first and third - the better.

Other teams are waiting to see the Youkilis of old, and lately there are signs that he is getting to that point. He is hitting the ball harder and working counts better. He went 2 for 3 with a double and a walk in Wednesday night’s 15-5 win over the Marlins.

The Sox will have to assume most of the remaining $12 million on Youkilis’s contract and the $1 million buyout of his option, and then there is the question of what they can get for him.

They could make a straight salary dump and not get anything for him, but he is a homegrown product they developed into an All-Star and a Gold Glove first baseman, so they want something in return.

These are the teams in play for Youkilis at the moment:


Dodgers: They need a productive corner infielder, and Youkilis has always been a favorite of manager Don Mattingly, who admires his plate discipline. The Dodgers have been scouting Youkilis at Fenway this week. A reported deal for James Loney would not be Boston’s cup of tea.
Indians: Like many teams, they could use a righthanded bat at a corner, and are very much involved in talks with the Red Sox.
Pirates: They need to bolster their offense, because they feel their pitching is good enough to win the NL Central. Getting Youkilis would add a very disciplined hitter to that lineup.
Diamondbacks: They have had interest in Youkilis for some time, but they declined when the Red Sox asked for outfielder Gerardo Parra. The talks do not appear to be dead, according to a major league source.
White Sox: They could use a third baseman, but with John Danks going down with an injury, they are more likely to pursue pitching help.
Phillies. The Philadelphia people deny they are looking at Youkilis, but they had two scouts at Fenway. The Phillies are still awaiting the return of Ryan Howard and Chase Utley.
Boston Globe

Nomar
06-21-2012, 01:10 PM
If we cant trade him this week would should DFA him IMO. Wasting way too much time with this.

When we get nothing special in return people will realize how stupid this whole situation has been. Playing a guy whos struggling at the expense of the team in order to get probably a pen arm or C level prospect.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-21-2012, 03:24 PM
Their going to trade him at the deadline when teams are going to start to overpay a little more. I don't get the huge rush.

RedSoxtober
06-21-2012, 04:06 PM
If we cant trade him this week would should DFA him IMO. Wasting way too much time with this.

When we get nothing special in return people will realize how stupid this whole situation has been. Playing a guy whos struggling at the expense of the team in order to get probably a pen arm or C level prospect.

In the minds of some he's starting to turn a corner. He started squaring a few more balls up -- without results but strked well -- over the weekend. 3/7, BB, 2RS in his last two games. Only 2K in the last ten days. It's not much but it does lean in the direction of getting his batting eye back.

Regardless, DFA would be silly. Even if you prefer Middlebrooks starting every day, why would you give him away rather than keep him as a classic corner IF reserve? Certainly he's better off the bench than Punto.

Nomar
06-21-2012, 05:13 PM
In the minds of some he's starting to turn a corner. He started squaring a few more balls up -- without results but strked well -- over the weekend. 3/7, BB, 2RS in his last two games. Only 2K in the last ten days. It's not much but it does lean in the direction of getting his batting eye back.

Regardless, DFA would be silly. Even if you prefer Middlebrooks starting every day, why would you give him away rather than keep him as a classic corner IF reserve? Certainly he's better off the bench than Punto.

Yeah but if he became a bench player he would cry twenty-four seven.

RedSoxtober
06-21-2012, 05:48 PM
Yeah but if he became a bench player he would cry twenty-four seven.

Play him 3/7 games and you still get something for him. If he wants to whine, so be it. He can play 2/7 then until he shuts up.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
06-22-2012, 10:37 PM
boston -- a trade of boston red sox infielder kevin youkilis could happen at any time now, two officials involved in trade talks told espn the magazine's buster olney, and on friday night, the chicago white sox were perceived to be one of the frontrunners.

The red sox have talked with the los angeles dodgers, cleveland indians, atlanta braves and arizona diamondbacks about youkilis, among other teams. One executive involved indicated on friday night that the white sox were thought to be competing with an nl team, and the red sox were going through the process of trying to nudge offers one last time.


Youkilis
arizona is said to be out of the running. The braves have reportedly scouted youkilis repeatedly in the last week.

On friday, red sox manager bobby valentine said he talked with youkilis about decreased playing time, and that youkilis, while not happy about it, understood the decision.

"he doesn't necessarily totally agree with it and doesn't wake up in the morning and hope that's the case, but i think the professional person that kevin is, he understands it," valentine said. "yes, i think he's fine."

for the first time since coming off the disabled list may 22, youkilis is out of the starting lineup for two straight games. The fact that it comes in the wake of a monster performance by fellow third baseman will middlebrooks on thursday night begs the question: Has there been a concrete shift at third base from the veteran youkilis to the rookie middlebrooks?

For friday night's series opener against atlanta, valentine said he's simply going with the guy who is swinging a good bat.

"today, i'm riding the hot hand," valentine said. "tomorrow might not be the case. I always reserve the right to change my mind."

but valentine did say he had a discussion with youkilis about the situation and expects his veteran to adjust to any part-time role that emerges.

More on the red sox

gordon edes and the rest of the espnboston.com team have the red sox covered for you. Blog
middlebrooks hammered a game-tying two-run homer in the bottom of the eighth inning thursday, keying a comeback victory for the sox over miami. He had four rbis in the game and has 31 in just 38 games since being promoted to boston. That represents the most rbis by a red sox player in 38 games since walt dropo in 1949-50.

Meanwhile, youkilis is hitting only .174 (8 for 46) with no home runs and 10 strikeouts in june during which he has been surrounded by trade rumors. For several days, valentine was able to appease the hot-hitting rookie and the struggling vet, but that was because of a shortage of healthy outfielders, which necessitated adrian gonzalez's move to right field and enabled youkilis to play first base. With cody ross back and daniel nava and ryan kalish contributing, gonzalez can slide back to first, where he has won three gold gloves.

Valentine hinted the more stable outfield gives him more reason to keep gonzalez planted at first, which would necessitate a daily decision regarding youkilis and middlebrooks.

"we'll take it day by day, but if i had my druthers, he'd stay at first," valentine said of gonzalez. "the reason he didn't was because of necessity."

that necessity is not there right now, and with carl crawford and jacoby ellsbury taking steps toward an eventual return, the sox may actually have a surplus of outfielders at some point. Right now they have a surplus of third basemen, which will create a daily lineup drama until the situation changes.

espnboston

gustofer1
06-23-2012, 02:06 AM
Good to see BV at least knows what he's doing with Gonzo and WMB now. Hopefully he doesn't "reserve the right to change his mind" and we'll lose another 1 run game tomorrow because Youk is 0-fer and Gonzo misses a play in RF.

j-bay
06-23-2012, 12:17 PM
Pete Abraham‏@PeteAbe

#RedSox officials talked last night about roster moves in wake of impending Youkilis trade. Deal could come any time now.

Here comes today's long distance shoutout
it comes from j-bay44 from PSD
He writes
Dear Matt, Theres a fan favorite who is about to be traded from the Red Sox. Can you please play a song to send him off.

Well j-bay heres your song right here

Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey-ey, goodbye

j-bay
06-23-2012, 12:19 PM
If a deal is worked out with the White Sox, it will resemble one of these:

DEAL: Youkilis AND Anderson AND Swihart FOR Gavin Floyd AND Matt Thornton

DEAL: Youkilis AND Anderson FOR Gavin Floyd AND Matt Thornton

DEAL: Youkilis AND Anderson FOR Gavin Floyd AND [Chicago prospect]


http://bosoxinjection.com/2012/06/23/youk-trade-today-white-sox-or-dodgers/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Its only an opinion, but i could see something like this

j-bay
06-23-2012, 12:24 PM
Pete Abraham‏@PeteAbe

Just speculation: #RedSox will get a B-/C+ prospect or two for Youkilis, not an MLB player. He's a rental at this point


Please let it be an MLB player

thefirerises
06-23-2012, 12:32 PM
I have a feeling it's not just going to be youk that goes. Maybe Anderson. Maybe one of the OF's. I just don't think it's just gunna be youk by himself

ImDaBaron
06-23-2012, 12:34 PM
Please let it be an MLB player


It wont be. Kenny wouldnt make the trade if that were the case.

thefirerises
06-23-2012, 12:45 PM
^ sadly I agree. Which is why I am hoping it's youk and a couple specs. I don't think chisox will trade a starter seeing as they just lost one of their starters already

CeltBruinSoxFan
06-23-2012, 12:56 PM
I don't think any team right now would be willing to give up a MLB ready player for Youk, unless BOS is willing to throw in a spec or two and take a big chunk of Youk's salary. I would prefer to get 1 or 2 low level specs to move Youk and majority of his salary.

But I agree, with Crawford coming along nicely and Ells probably back by All-Star break, I could see Youk packaged with Nava or Sweeney for something okay in return.

Would prefer to just unload Youk, Ells and Beckett by trade deadline or sooner and start getting the young guns ready for MLB action (Bradley, Kalish, maybe even Barnes near season end.)

Cronin
06-23-2012, 12:59 PM
http://bosoxinjection.com/2012/06/23/youk-trade-today-white-sox-or-dodgers/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Its only an opinion, but i could see something like this

I would love any of those. Also, I'd love to get Matt Laporta from the Indians, we drafted him in 2006, and I think he could really find himself here.

ImDaBaron
06-23-2012, 01:11 PM
^ sadly I agree. Which is why I am hoping it's youk and a couple specs. I don't think chisox will trade a starter seeing as they just lost one of their starters already

Yep...there is no way we trade Gavin Floyd right now. Especially since it looks like he is primed to start his streak of good starts.

thefirerises
06-23-2012, 01:30 PM
Yep...there is no way we trade Gavin Floyd right now. Especially since it looks like he is primed to start his streak of good starts.

exactly. i really would like floyd.who wouldnt. williams would want youk, anderson, and maybe 2 more b level prospects for him which i know cherington wouldnt do that. but ben im sure is trying to trade youk and a maybe anderson or another prime prospect for a starter. its almost a sure thing the sox are gunna eat most if not all of youks salary for the remainder of the season.

thefirerises
06-23-2012, 01:32 PM
-Talks are described as "intense" according to Scott Miller of CBSSports.com. He says the Red Sox will pay a significant portion of the $7.5MM or so left on Youkilis' contract in any trade scenario.-MLBTR.com

exactly my point.

j-bay
06-23-2012, 02:14 PM
TradeDeadliner‏@TradeDeadliner

#Pirates emerging as very much in the mix to acquire Youkilis from #RedSox. #WhiteSox and #Pirates seem to be in the lead for him.

TradeDeadliner‏@TradeDeadliner

Kevin Youkilis is expected to be traded by day's end. Talks moving very fast, says @BiertempfelTrib

TradeDeadliner‏@TradeDeadliner

Heard Matt Thornton as a possible name. RT @Cjcovitz who would the white sox give up for Youkilis?

SirHizz
06-23-2012, 02:20 PM
Thornton? Doesn't make any sense at all, not with the emergence of our relievers this year.

My guess is still the Pirates, they need offense and can't take on too much salary (Red Sox pay most of Youk's remaining salary)...and most importantly, they got great pitching/good farm.

-Lavigne43-
06-23-2012, 02:20 PM
I think we will be disappointed in what we get in return. I hate selling so low on Youk. I think whoever gets him will end up being very happy with the trade.

gustofer1
06-23-2012, 02:26 PM
http://bosoxinjection.com/2012/06/23/youk-trade-today-white-sox-or-dodgers/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Its only an opinion, but i could see something like this

Whatever happened to Pittsburgh? I think we could swipe some pretty talented pitching prospects (probably not a starter, however) with the right position player prospects thrown in. Lars is probably out, and we could move Nava if we had one more healthy ML ready outfielder. I'm very interested to see how this all plays out, now that the deflecting and non-answers of Youk rumors are gone.

Not saying "trade Nava", just saying if the right guy is available with him in the package, I could see us moving him.

j-bay
06-23-2012, 02:46 PM
TradeDeadliner‏@TradeDeadliner

#Braves are out of Youkilis sweepstakes. #Dodgers, #WhiteSox, #Pirates still involved.

gustofer1
06-23-2012, 02:53 PM
TradeDeadliner‏@TradeDeadliner

#Braves are out of Youkilis sweepstakes. #Dodgers, #WhiteSox, #Pirates still involved.

Sweet glad to see the Pirates still in it, thx for the updates JBay!

1_FrozenNetsFan
06-23-2012, 03:04 PM
I think we will be disappointed in what we get in return. I hate selling so low on Youk. I think whoever gets him will end up being very happy with the trade.

but I see that it is really in the RS interests to move him sooner than later as far as this season goes.

I don't get what they do if they trade for a starter. I've gotta assume they sit the Dice or something with him. He really seems to be the weak link in the starting rotation...I mean with Beckett back from IR. I guess they can swallow the hit $wise on the Dice contract.

j-bay
06-23-2012, 03:10 PM
TradeDeadliner‏@TradeDeadliner

#RedSox do not have Youkilis in the lineup today vs. Braves. That was expected. But Youk is taking early BP with the Sox at Fenway.

ManRam
06-23-2012, 03:24 PM
As a Pirates and a Sox fan...I'd be upset if the Pirates traded anything but a low level prospect for him, and if they had to take on more than like a third of his contract. The Pirates have a great deal of great pitching prospects, but they won't trade any of those guys for Youk.

I don't know how I'd feel if those two teams did business. That would be...odd...


But the most recent news is that the Pirates aren't interested any more.

mike_noodles
06-23-2012, 03:50 PM
Looks like the deal is done, Youk to the Chisox.

j-bay
06-23-2012, 03:51 PM
Looks like the deal is done, Youk to the Chisox.

not real, fake 98.5 account has only 7 followers and 1 tweet

gustofer1
06-23-2012, 03:53 PM
Looks like the deal is done, Youk to the Chisox.

got a link?

Celtic AL
06-23-2012, 03:54 PM
he just had an interview saying hes still here! as of now theres not trade to report

Celtic AL
06-23-2012, 04:02 PM
i have a feeling that the whitesox might pull out of this

mike_noodles
06-23-2012, 04:09 PM
got a link?

Check the mlb forum apparently they have a real link.

-Lavigne43-
06-23-2012, 04:14 PM
but I see that it is really in the RS interests to move him sooner than later as far as this season goes.

I don't get what they do if they trade for a starter. I've gotta assume they sit the Dice or something with him. He really seems to be the weak link in the starting rotation...I mean with Beckett back from IR. I guess they can swallow the hit $wise on the Dice contract.

We are not going to get a good starter for him. Maybe Floyd since he has a high era, but I doubt it. It will probably be a bleh prospect or two.

ImDaBaron
06-23-2012, 04:35 PM
Dont listen to that radio station twitter account and the one he is re tweeting about the Braves. I called earlier and they said that they have nothing confirmed on that end. Those twitter accounts are bogus.

j-bay
06-23-2012, 05:20 PM
JimBowdenESPNxm JIM BOWDEN
Red Sox hoping Youkilis is traded today to White Sox, Indians or Dodgers
about an hour ago

Celtic AL
06-23-2012, 05:47 PM
Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo

Sources: Indians and White Sox were primary bidders for Youkilis. Dodgers also in. Sox held Youk out to protect from injury

https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/216645995755352064

j-bay
06-23-2012, 06:14 PM
Nick Cafardo ‏@nickcafardo

Sources: Indians and White Sox were primary bidders for Youkilis. Dodgers also in. Sox held Youk out to protect from injury

https://twitter.com/nickcafardo/status/216645995755352064

So he's staying?

j-bay
06-23-2012, 06:21 PM
TradeDeadliner‏@TradeDeadliner

#Indians are the most serious bidder for Youkilis at this time. #WhiteSox, #Dodgers, and maybe #Diamondbacks are in as well.

j-bay
06-23-2012, 06:22 PM
TradeDeadliner‏@TradeDeadliner

#RedSox will activate Aaron Cook from the DL tomorrow to start against ATL. Expect Youkilis trade to be done by then to make room.

Crucis
06-23-2012, 08:07 PM
TradeDeadliner‏@TradeDeadliner

#RedSox will activate Aaron Cook from the DL tomorrow to start against ATL. Expect Youkilis trade to be done by then to make room.

Hadn't considered that, but it's sure one way to clear a roster spot.

ImDaBaron
06-23-2012, 09:39 PM
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
Sources: ‪#Indians‬ “longshot” for Youkilis. ‪#Dodgers‬ minimal contact with ‪#RedSox‬ today. Signs point to ‪#WhiteSox‬, ‪#Pirates‬ or another club.

https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal

ImDaBaron
06-23-2012, 09:47 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/video/MLB

In his report he says the White Sox were getting close but the Red Sox backed off. They want him to go to the NL.

ManRam
06-23-2012, 09:53 PM
Everything around Pittsburgh says the Pirates aren't interested...


We'll see. You really have to assume he'll be gone within the next 12-14 hours

TrueYankee
06-23-2012, 10:08 PM
Ahhh..Youk has made the Yanks-Red Sox rivalry fun. Will be sad to see him go, but anytime you have a young promising prospect like Middlebrooks, it is time to make changes.

gustofer1
06-23-2012, 10:48 PM
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
Sources: ‪#Indians‬ “longshot” for Youkilis. ‪#Dodgers‬ minimal contact with ‪#RedSox‬ today. Signs point to ‪#WhiteSox‬, ‪#Pirates‬ or another club.

https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal

What do you think the possibility is of re-acquiring Masterson for Youk + prospects and/or including a pitcher in the deal? I think he could really bring a "stopper" element to our staff with his sinker.. Just a thought, I really wish we didn't have to give him up in the V-mart deal.

SirHizz
06-23-2012, 11:02 PM
What do you think the possibility is of re-acquiring Masterson for Youk + prospects and/or including a pitcher in the deal? I think he could really bring a "stopper" element to our staff with his sinker.. Just a thought, I really wish we didn't have to give him up in the V-mart deal.

Don't think the Indians are going to give up on Masterson...especially for someone like Youk. But I'd make that deal 10 out of 10 times, even if we had to include another prospect.
But something like that would make sense for the Indians. They are contending and don't rely on Masterson this year.

But yet, I still believe Youk's gonna end up with the Pirates or WSox.

ManRam
06-23-2012, 11:11 PM
Well, Morosi says the Pirates are still interested, just not certain they're confident they can make it happen...

j-bay
06-23-2012, 11:24 PM
up yours scott youkilis

Scott Youkilis‏@chefyouk

Love that #teamyouk may be changing sox real soon. #Chicago is better town anyways!

Celtic AL
06-23-2012, 11:48 PM
up yours scott youkilis

Scott Youkilis‏@chefyouk

Love that #teamyouk may be changing sox real soon. #Chicago is better town anyways!

um what?

j-bay
06-23-2012, 11:54 PM
um what?

He is Kevin's brother
http://sanfrancisco.grubstreet.com/2010/06/scott_youkilis_talks_hogs_rock.html

and right now he is talking trash about Boston
https://twitter.com/#!/chefyouk

j-bay
06-24-2012, 12:33 AM
Ken Rosenthal‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Source: #RedSox talks with #WhiteSox over Youkilis more advanced than with other clubs, could be approaching final stages.

j-bay
06-24-2012, 12:34 AM
Ken Rosenthal‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Deal between #RedSox and #WhiteSox not a certainty. Youkilis' past physical issues will make exchange of medical records critical.

DasBoot
06-24-2012, 02:09 AM
Wait so who would you guys be getting ????

tmic13
06-24-2012, 03:52 AM
lotta talk on twitter saying Braves got Youk... search braves and youll see it and im a wsox fan hoping to get him.

Celtic AL
06-24-2012, 12:09 PM
He is Kevin's brother
http://sanfrancisco.grubstreet.com/2010/06/scott_youkilis_talks_hogs_rock.html

and right now he is talking trash about Boston
https://twitter.com/#!/chefyouk

and why do we care?

SirHizz
06-24-2012, 12:12 PM
I am not so sure that the return will be minimal at best. Looks like alot of teams are interested and some experts have speculated that because of the second WC, not many teams are going to be sellers. That means less talent will become available at the DL.

If we eat most of Youk's salary (what I expect), the return could at least be satisfying. I think something will get done at the end of the day.

BradytoGronkTD
06-24-2012, 01:08 PM
I think we need some sort of pitching in return.

Celtic AL
06-24-2012, 01:23 PM
Youk is starting today and he is playing 3b. how ever Middlebrooks is playing DH. this could mean 2 things. a deal is not close so there just show casing him that hes healthy or the Whitsox, Indians & or Dodgers requested him to start and play third before acquiring him.

SirHizz
06-24-2012, 01:35 PM
It just means that nothing is imminent and the Sox are saying "FU, we don't have to trade Youk ASAP and he's still our property, so we can play him whenever we want to"

My opinion is that some teams (in contention) have a real bad offense and need a player like Youkilis. Pittsburgh is not going to survive with that sorry Offense, same could be said about the Dodgers. White Sox are getting nothing out of the 3B-spot.
So that's the leverage right there for the Sox

Celtic AL
06-24-2012, 01:44 PM
i dont think its a "FU" thing i mean why is middlebrooks is in DH? if there giving ortiz a Dayoff then youk would be at DH & middlebrooks would be starting. i mean its a rare thing for putting a young 23 year old great 3rd baseman insted of a vet like youk whos been soso at 3rd this year. i also think there if they were telling us "FU" then Middlebrooks would also have the day off instead of Ortiz.

Cronin
06-24-2012, 02:22 PM
This just in, Pirates interested in Youkilis because he kind of looks like one.

Celtic AL
06-24-2012, 02:27 PM
This just in, Pirates interested in Youkilis because he kind of looks like one.

He does! :laugh:

grandsalami
06-24-2012, 02:46 PM
EvanDrellich
One baseball source says Red Sox's asking price too high for Kevin Youkilis http://t.co/1KYFkHCK

RedSoxtober
06-24-2012, 03:09 PM
EvanDrellich
One baseball source says Red Sox's asking price too high for Kevin Youkilis http://t.co/1KYFkHCK

The second source might be dated. The D'Backs reportedly dropped out several days ago because they were asking for too much (Parra).

Nomar
06-24-2012, 03:10 PM
The second source might be dated. The D'Backs reportedly dropped out several days ago because they were asking for too much (Parra).

i was about to say the same. Definitely not a relevant update

SirHizz
06-24-2012, 03:51 PM
Why the **** did we ask for Parra in the first place? Our OF is crowded and even without Ells and CC more than adequate.

Maybe someone like Floyd makes sense. A SP that is having a down-year with upside. Floyd is never going to be a great pitcher, though.

Sarge
06-24-2012, 04:01 PM
Why the **** did we ask for Parra in the first place? Our OF is crowded and even without Ells and CC more than adequate.

Maybe someone like Floyd makes sense. A SP that is having a down-year with upside. Floyd is never going to be a great pitcher, though.

Possible they had a taker in another trade? Maybe get him to flip him? Just speculating.

gustofer1
06-24-2012, 04:13 PM
In Youk's last AB today, he was pinch run for and given a standing ovation, including curtain call. He hugged all his teammates and looks to be accepting the fact that his days are done in Boston.

Nomar
06-24-2012, 04:16 PM
In Youk's last AB today, he was pinch run for and given a standing ovation, including curtain call. He hugged all his teammates and looks to be accepting the fact that his days are done in Boston.

almost cried. proud of it too

Reversed86Curse
06-24-2012, 04:32 PM
Still can't believe he's fallen this far

YazMan
06-24-2012, 04:36 PM
Youk will always be a dirt dog. Love his heart even after his skills have slowed down. Thanks for all the 3-2 counts and 110% effort even when he was hurting! You deserve a standing O!:clap:

sager729
06-24-2012, 04:37 PM
Welcome to the White Sox Youk?

-Lavigne43-
06-24-2012, 04:45 PM
Rob Bradford ‏@bradfo
Clubhouse source says Youkilis traded to White Sox. Nameplate is gone

-Lavigne43-
06-24-2012, 04:47 PM
Brian MacPherson ‏@brianmacp
Valentine said Cherington told him before the seventh inning there was a "situation pending."

sager729
06-24-2012, 04:49 PM
Zach Stewart was pulled from his start in Charlotte. Could be headed to Boston?

AI
06-24-2012, 04:50 PM
Cody Ross tells @WEEI that Bobby Valentine told the dugout "This is gonna be it" for Youkilis


Ross said the dugout was choked up when Valentine announced that was it for Youk... #RedSox

Jen Royle

bagwell368
06-24-2012, 04:52 PM
Zach Stewart? Young, decent K rate, awful WHIP.... this is like getting Bowden back.

sager729
06-24-2012, 04:53 PM
Zach Stewart has given up like 12 HR in 30 innings, he has been terrible this season. In AAA currently.

keymax
06-24-2012, 04:54 PM
Zach Stewart? Young, decent K rate, awful WHIP.... this is like getting Bowden back.

He is a sinkerballer with a HR problem. Not suited for a starting role, his ceiling is a swingman out of the bullpen IMO.

Station 13
06-24-2012, 04:55 PM
Zach Stewart to be DFA here in 2 weeks. The ChiSox better pick up 2/3 of the monies for a AAAA guy.

bagwell368
06-24-2012, 04:55 PM
Still can't believe he's fallen this far

Nobody beats age. And 3B just makes it worse. If he was DH'ing the past 2 years I think he'd have fared better.

I found him amazing to watch, all the time. I am sorry it's all come to this, that he couldn't have played here through '14 and won another WS title with Holliday and him sandwiching Gonzalez.... Oh well, it wasn't meant to be...

Beantownsboss
06-24-2012, 04:55 PM
Traded to whitesox per nesn

TrueYankee
06-24-2012, 04:55 PM
He has been traded to the White Sox, it appears.

Rob Bradford of WEEI.com tweets that a clubhouse source says Youkilis has been traded to the White Sox and his nameplate has been removed from his locker.

sager729
06-24-2012, 04:56 PM
I have read about $5 million was to be eaten by Red Sox. You guys wanted a major leaguer, you KIND OF got one.

Celtic AL
06-24-2012, 04:56 PM
scouting report for Zach Stewart?

Station 13
06-24-2012, 04:57 PM
scouting report for Zach Stewart?

his stats are awful. If kenny picks up 2/3 of the monies it's just a salaries dump here.

Nomar
06-24-2012, 04:57 PM
scouting report for Zach Stewart?

Stats show that hes pretty awful.

3rd round pick in 2008

Celtic AL
06-24-2012, 04:58 PM
theres got to be more to this deal. like a PTBNL or 2.

sager729
06-24-2012, 04:58 PM
Also Red Sox get a utility player, Eduardo Escobar or Brent Lillibridge.

Station 13
06-24-2012, 04:58 PM
Stats show that hes pretty awful.

3rd round pick in 2008

Pretty much expect him to get DFA here soon.

sager729
06-24-2012, 04:58 PM
I know they get a utility player, one of those 2 are my guess.

StayOnBoard
06-24-2012, 04:59 PM
scouting report for Zach Stewart?

He was traded to Chicago from the Jays as apart of the Edwin Jackson/Colby Rasmus deal.... but sadly he has had one good game and otherwise pretty much sucks. He might make it as a #5 starter but likely his role will be long relief.

Seems more like a salary dump than anything....

I hear a utility player is also coming back in the trade to Boston so all the details aren't yet known.