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North Yorker
05-30-2012, 10:24 AM
If the Jays fall in the standings, they could turn free-agent-to-be Edwin Encarnacion into the biggest available bat – this year’s answer to Carlos Beltran.

And if the Jays stay right where they are — not out, not necessarily all-in — then the most-uttered sentence in baseball circles this July will be as follows:

I’m waiting for Anthopoulos to make up his mind.


Anthopoulos has been allergic to big free-agent investments, which has not done wonders for fan enthusiasm but is useful in times like this. There isn’t a move he has to make, an onerous contract that must be expunged. His team has needs: a No. 2 starter, a left fielder with power, a late-inning reliever or two (or three). But Anthopoulos can find those players on his terms — and imaginatively so, if he chooses.

Through a combination of sound planning and good fortune, his medium-term roster is as utilitarian as a coupled Swiss Army knife: J.P. Arencibia/d’Arnaud at catcher, Yunel Escobar/Hechavarria at shortstop, Colby Rasmus/Gose in center.

Trade one, keep the other.



Beginning this year, in order to collect a draft pick clubs must (a) retain the prospective free agent all season and (b) offer him a one-year tender between $12 million and $13 million.

So, how many of Toronto’s prospective free agents – Encarnacion, Kelly Johnson, Francisco Cordero, Darren Oliver, Jason Frasor, Carlos Villanueva, Jeff Mathis, Omar Vizquel, the soon-to-arrive Vladimir Guerrero — would deserve a salary of more than $12 million next year?

The answer is maybe one: Encarnacion.


Yet Encarnacion and his agent, Paul Kinzer, told me in separate conversations Tuesday that the Blue Jays have not initiated talks about a contract extension.


One could interpret that piece of information in any number of ways. Maybe the Blue Jays need to see more from Encarnacion before determining that he’s a long-term franchise cornerstone like Jose Bautista and Brett Lawrie. Maybe they harbor doubts about whether Encarnacion will be this productive several years from now. Maybe they have no intention of re-signing him.

Or maybe Anthopoulos wants to wait and see just how intense the market for Encarnacion’s services might be in late July. With Guerrero’s arrival, Encarnacion will get the chance to play first base even more frequently than he has this season (14 starts so far). If he shows he can handle the job, any number of teams with poor first-base production could inquire on him — including the Pirates, Indians, Mets and Marlins.

You can read the full article HERE (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/toronto-blue-jays-edwin-encarnacion-al-east-summer-intrigue-052912)

So, what do you guys think we should do with EE?

If we got a Zach Wheeler(ala Beltran) type of offer at the deadline where we are hovering around slightly above .500 do you pull the trigger and give up on this season?

Extend him long term?

Offer him a 1 yr tender between $12-13M, and if he walks gets draft pick compensation?

Or just let him walk entirely?

Poll to come

scottythegreat1
05-30-2012, 10:35 AM
This is a tough question.

I voted sign him up Long term. Since this is the only season he has had where he has contributed well enough, he contract wont be that excessive. He wont get more than 5 years and 55 million.

AA09-?
05-30-2012, 10:35 AM
Just like in any situation you'd have to see what the return is. If we're contending however, it would be highly unlikely E5 would be moved.

pebloemer
05-30-2012, 10:46 AM
Just like in any situation you'd have to see what the return is. If we're contending however, it would be highly unlikely E5 would be moved.

Oh definitely. You also need to have an idea what type of contract he is looking for. You can't make a choice without those details.

I voted for signing him up long term, because I don't see him making huge money and I can see him being a valuable piece at 1B. We don't have too many great infield prospects to look forward to and Edwin would give us a solid bat out of an important position to have one.

But without knwo what type of contract AA is able to negotiate or what type of offers would be on the table, I reserve the right to change my vote :).

Kelly Gruber
05-30-2012, 10:48 AM
See what happens the rest of the year and see what kind of contract he wants. If the Jays are out of it and they can get a return like Beltran got the Mets (Zack Wheeler) then you should probably pull the trigger.

2009mvp
05-30-2012, 10:48 AM
including the Pirates, Indians, Mets and Marlins.

The sad part is how much better the Jays are than any of those teams. Thanks AL East.

Anyways, if they're not gonna spend this offseason (and they won't) I'd like to see them throw qualifying offers to KJ and EE. You either get a draft pick or you get an excellent player on a one year contract, seems like a win win to me.

bartron_44
05-30-2012, 10:50 AM
as much as I like EE...I would probably trade him at the deadline if we got a great offer from another contender. He has cooled off (other than the HR's). He is hitting .223 with an OPS of .771 in May. Sure he has 8 HR's and 20 RBI's, but OBP is under .300 this month.

He is a streaky hitter, so he could very easily go on another tear in June..but do you want to lock up someone for huge dollars at DH/1B who has never hit more then 26 HR's at the age of 29. He has never posted an OPS of .850 over an entire season....would you give him 12M/yr for several seasons?

I don't even see AA offering him the 12-13M offer to get a draft pick out of him if he walks. EE has never even made 6M/yr, and hasn't made 12M in his last 3 seasons combined....

Think he wouldn't jump at the chance at 12-13M next season if AA offered it to him?....Unless he is a Boras client...I highly doubt it.

Bob_at_york
05-30-2012, 10:51 AM
Tough poll. I went with trade him for a great package at the deadline. We can find a new 1st baseman.

2009mvp
05-30-2012, 10:55 AM
as much as I like EE...I would probably trade him at the deadline if we got a great offer from another contender. He has cooled off (other than the HR's). He is hitting .223 with an OPS of .771 in May. Sure he has 8 HR's and 20 RBI's, but OBP is under .300 this month.

He is a streaky hitter, so he could very easily go on another tear in June..but do you want to lock up someone for huge dollars at DH/1B who has never hit more then 26 HR's at the age of 29. He has never posted an OPS of .850 over an entire season....would you give him 12M/yr for several seasons?

I don't even see AA offering him the 12-13M offer to get a draft pick out of him if he walks. EE has never even made 6M/yr, and hasn't made 12M in his last 3 seasons combined....

Think he wouldn't jump at the chance at 12-13M next season if AA offered it to him?....Unless he is a Boras client...I highly doubt it.

There's 4 months of baseball left. If he keeps up an .800-850ish OPS pace the counting stats are gonna be there. Now compare that to the other bats left on the market and there's no reason he wouldn't get a multiyear deal worth 7 figures per on the free market.

AA09-?
05-30-2012, 10:56 AM
I'm not enamoured with the idea of giving E5 a long-term extension. Far too streaky of a hitter and very poor defensively.

LuckyLuke2
05-30-2012, 11:08 AM
Who knows where his production will be in a month or two, but I say trade him and get a good return.

JMac4PM
05-30-2012, 11:38 AM
Jays are still far from competing for a ship... I dont see why you would take the risk with an EE when its highly unlikely he'll make you a contender anyways.

Trade him for some prospects.

Krylian
05-30-2012, 11:41 AM
Tender him the 1 year and if he goes elsewhere, collect the comp picks.

I'm not comfortable going long term on E5.

Any team trading for him will not get any Draft compensation at the end of the year, so that does impact his trade value. That, and I'm not sure what others see Edwin as. Will teams really offer anything of significance? I just don't see it.

So I'd rather tender him. If he accepts...oh well, it's just 1 year. If he declines and goes elsewhere, then I'll take the picks and I trust that our scouting department will do a good job and find us some real nice talent.

ChongInc.
05-30-2012, 12:06 PM
Try to sign him for 2 years 13 mil.

JaysFan87
05-30-2012, 12:13 PM
i have a feeling that they are going to look at extending him. AA kept him around when he was struggling because he thought there was something there. I dont think he would now turn around and trade/not entertain serious extension talks.

ChongInc.
05-30-2012, 12:23 PM
I'm pretty sure you don't get many comp picks anymore. I think the team that signs him forfeits their pick and we only get a supplimental pick.

Bob Loblaw
05-30-2012, 12:27 PM
I doubt they will get a Wheeler type prospect back because he wont bring the team hes traded too draft picks if.when he walks at years end like Beltran did to the Giants.

MrForever
05-30-2012, 12:50 PM
I have no interest in draft picks. If you're going to move him for futures, get either a good AA player or someone who's on the brink of making it.

wagnall
05-30-2012, 01:13 PM
With EE I think because of his on and off past, we have time to see more of him. We have 1 1/2 months to see if he is for real, even though he's dropped off in May he keeps hitting bombs. I would want to see if he can get back to April numbers and still keep his power up.
But if he's not traded and the plan is to keep him, does that mean he is our 1st baseman for the next 3 -4 years, or is AA still going after a big 1st baseman and want to keep EE as the DH/sometime 1st base. If thats the case 13m seems like a lot.

But lets see how he does then decide as the trade deadline is close. I guess we can't forget that we have a guy who found lightening in a bottle at 29.

Krylian
05-30-2012, 01:14 PM
i have a feeling that they are going to look at extending him. AA kept him around when he was struggling because he thought there was something there. I dont think he would now turn around and trade/not entertain serious extension talks.

He also kept him around cause he was cheap. He won't be cheap anymore.

Krylian
05-30-2012, 01:16 PM
I'm pretty sure you don't get many comp picks anymore. I think the team that signs him forfeits their pick and we only get a supplimental pick.

If a player is offered (and I can't remember if this is accurrate but I think it's the average of the Top 100 paid players) and turns it down, then he qualifies for Type A compensation. Which is the other teams 1st rounder (unless it's a Top 10 pick...then it's their 2nd round pick) plus one pick in the comp round.

Krylian
05-30-2012, 01:18 PM
I have no interest in draft picks. If you're going to move him for futures, get either a good AA player or someone who's on the brink of making it.

You're assuming another team will give you a good prospect in return.

Also, saying you have no interest in draft picks means you don't have much faith in the Jays scouting team.

North Yorker
05-30-2012, 01:30 PM
Assuming we dont get a good offer at the TD, I think the safest way to go is to offer him the 1 yr $12M tender. If he takes it, great, it's only a 1 year deal. If he declines, collect the draft pick(s) and go sign an Ortiz or Pena this offseason.

GrumpyOldMan
05-30-2012, 01:42 PM
I believe I heard during a recent broadcast that last season EE didn't hit his first homerun until late May, and still hit 17 on the year. If he merely matches that production of around 17 for the rest of the season he will be in the mid 30's for homers for the season. Sure you can replace his production, but it will cost prospects. I'd rather just keep him for another season with a substantial raise unless an offer comes around that AA just can't refuse.

JaysFan87
05-30-2012, 01:45 PM
He also kept him around cause he was cheap. He won't be cheap anymore.

they have always shown the willingness to extend players they "know", romero, morrow, Lind, Hill, Escobar. I dont see any difference in EE. I put it 80/20 they extend him before teh season is out.

2009mvp
05-30-2012, 01:48 PM
^^How are any of those comparisons valid? Most of those extensions bought out arb years and tacked on options, EE is a free agent. An extension at this point seems like the most unlikely scenario to me. After the season I'm sure they'll talk, but doing it in the middle of a career year is...Oriole-esque.

wagnall
05-30-2012, 01:53 PM
If EE does from now on what he did in April and keeps those power number up why would we not think he would want to test free agency. This could be his chance to cash in on a longterm deal. We may become bidders, and money and term talks and I don't think we'll get a home town gave you your only chance discount.

Bigred91
05-30-2012, 02:18 PM
He also kept him around cause he was cheap. He won't be cheap anymore.

Exactly. I believe his performance thus far is great for the Jays as he is drving his trade value up. I say get the best deal possible for him. The only tool that carries any value is his bat and even that has been inconsistent throughout his career.

bartron_44
05-30-2012, 02:34 PM
You're assuming another team will give you a good prospect in return.

Also, saying you have no interest in draft picks means you don't have much faith in the Jays scouting team.

I think it means that he wants assets that are ready to contribute something to this team in the next year or so, and not young kids who won't contribute for another several years down the road...if at all.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-30-2012, 02:53 PM
I want KJ resigned for a few more years and EE traded at the deadline to gather more assets to make major trades this offseason.
We have to sell high on him because tbh I don't see him keeping this up or being effective for 3-4 years.

Although one can argue maybe somethings changed with him because since the second half of the season last year to now he's been dynamite but I just don't buy it still.

Twitchy
05-30-2012, 03:57 PM
Considering EE's lack of past production over the past few years I don't think he'd get a major deal. I feel it's fairly similar to when Aubrey Huff had the career year with the Giants as a FA. He had a few decent years before that, like Encarnacion, but he didn't get a monster deal either.

Encarnacion will probably have better counting numbers, but given they were both playing 1B/DH at the time I feel it's a pretty valid comp.

Huff got 2/20 with the third year being a 10M deal or a 2M buyout. I think that's pretty fair for both sides, and given the circumstances and obvious comp I think that's probably the best play.

Worth pointing out that EE has a 770~ OPS in May. So I mean if you don't think he's capable of being a 900 OPS bat, selling high now is the right thing to do.

craigerlee
05-30-2012, 04:06 PM
I would definitely hold onto him until the end of the season and offer the 12M and get the picks if he declines and have him as your 1B if he accepts it. Definitely don't wanna extend him unless its a really short deal like a 2 year deal. He's a little too streaky for my liking and he doesn't walk a ton which isn't good if his bat speed starts to slow.

If a Zach Wheeler like trade came around for him then I'd probably pull the trigger unless were playoff bound, but the prospect would have to be pretty established and with close proximity to the majors. Not your lottery ticket with huge upside kinda specs like Syndergaard, Norris or Sanchez who a lot of people seem to drool over and think are untouchable.

Pens_fan_21
05-30-2012, 04:07 PM
I love how one of the options is "Offer 1 yr $12-13M tender" Its almost like people lose sight of reality - glad AA is in charge. Now I would keep him, why not? You got him in a trade for (correct me if I am wrong) Rolen and is finally healthy and doing some things - why is a Toronto fan (some not all) always jumping on the "Lets trade him" kind of bandwagon the second a TO player does well?

JaysFan87
05-30-2012, 04:10 PM
^^How are any of those comparisons valid? Most of those extensions bought out arb years and tacked on options, EE is a free agent. An extension at this point seems like the most unlikely scenario to me. After the season I'm sure they'll talk, but doing it in the middle of a career year is...Oriole-esque.

Yes i get that those cases involved arbitration eligible players but i think EE falls into the same category of player ie Morrow, and Escobar where the team believed in them and rewarded them with extensions. THere is also a difference between being a FA now and last year. With the elimination of the type A and B system and the introduction of a higher qualifying offer that must be offered to get picks, there is less value in letting the player walk. I see an extension of somewhere in the 3 year range in and around an average of 8-10M with option years attached. If i were to guess there si prolly an 80/20 chance an extension gets worked out.

Bob_at_york
05-30-2012, 04:10 PM
I love how one of the options is "Offer 1 yr $12-13M tender" Its almost like people lose sight of reality - glad AA is in charge. Now I would keep him, why not? You got him in a trade for (correct me if I am wrong) Rolen and is finally healthy and doing some things - why is a Toronto fan (some not all) always jumping on the "Lets trade him" kind of bandwagon the second a TO player does well?

I can tell you why I want to trade him, I don't think he is worth the money he is going to demand on the market.

craigerlee
05-30-2012, 04:12 PM
Considering EE's lack of past production over the past few years I don't think he'd get a major deal. I feel it's fairly similar to when Aubrey Huff had the career year with the Giants as a FA. He had a few decent years before that, like Encarnacion, but he didn't get a monster deal either.

Encarnacion will probably have better counting numbers, but given they were both playing 1B/DH at the time I feel it's a pretty valid comp.

Huff got 2/20 with the third year being a 10M deal or a 2M buyout. I think that's pretty fair for both sides, and given the circumstances and obvious comp I think that's probably the best play.

Worth pointing out that EE has a 770~ OPS in May. So I mean if you don't think he's capable of being a 900 OPS bat, selling high now is the right thing to do.

I think EE might get an extra guaranteed year cause he's only 29 compared to Huff who was 32 at the time. I'd think something north of what Willingham got and something south of what Cuddyer got. Maybe 3/26M.

JaysFan87
05-30-2012, 04:14 PM
Considering EE's lack of past production over the past few years I don't think he'd get a major deal. I feel it's fairly similar to when Aubrey Huff had the career year with the Giants as a FA. He had a few decent years before that, like Encarnacion, but he didn't get a monster deal either.

Encarnacion will probably have better counting numbers, but given they were both playing 1B/DH at the time I feel it's a pretty valid comp.

Huff got 2/20 with the third year being a 10M deal or a 2M buyout. I think that's pretty fair for both sides, and given the circumstances and obvious comp I think that's probably the best play.

Worth pointing out that EE has a 770~ OPS in May. So I mean if you don't think he's capable of being a 900 OPS bat, selling high now is the right thing to do.

I think something around their is what he would get offered from the jays my guess with 3 years guaranteed if he signs in season.

craigerlee
05-30-2012, 04:17 PM
Yes i get that those cases involved arbitration eligible players but i think EE falls into the same category of player ie Morrow, and Escobar where the team believed in them and rewarded them with extensions. THere is also a difference between being a FA now and last year. With the elimination of the type A and B system and the introduction of a higher qualifying offer that must be offered to get picks, there is less value in letting the player walk. I see an extension of somewhere in the 3 year range in and around an average of 8-10M with option years attached. If i were to guess there si prolly an 80/20 chance an extension gets worked out.

The value isn't less, its just that you aren't gonna offer every Tom, Dick and Harry arbitration anymore. I don't think there was ever all that much value in letting a guy who's worth 12M per walk, but there certainly was a lot of value in letting someone worth 1.5M walk for a pick.

anotherqtip420
05-30-2012, 04:19 PM
Either trade him now while he is hot or at the TDL. E5 is just like Lind IMPO and that they only perform for either the first half of the season or the second. If we can't trade him let him walk.

bomber0104
05-30-2012, 04:20 PM
tough to know really.. all of these options are really possible

LuckyLuke2
05-30-2012, 04:28 PM
Encarnacion is just streaky. I don't wanna sound like a negative nancy but I don't see his production continuing at this rate. His avg. is only 270 and I don't see that getting majorly better.

JaysFan87
05-30-2012, 04:36 PM
Encarnacion is just streaky. I don't wanna sound like a negative nancy but I don't see his production continuing at this rate. His avg. is only 270 and I don't see that getting majorly better.

What do i care if he hits .270 or even .250 at this point. Im loving that he is actually taking walks and that even with his power numbers he is not striking out a ton. if he can carry a .260/.330/.500 line then im all in with him. YOu want EE for his power numbers and if he is doing that, then he is worth it.

Toxeryll
05-30-2012, 05:44 PM
very tough question. if we cant resign EE to multiyr contract, trade him before the deadline.

Kenny Powders
05-30-2012, 05:46 PM
If we can get a top prospect, you do it in a second. EE has been far to inconsistant in his career to warrant a long term deal. Sell high on him.

wamco
05-31-2012, 06:58 AM
The sad part is how much better the Jays are than any of those teams. Thanks AL East.

Anyways, if they're not gonna spend this offseason (and they won't) I'd like to see them throw qualifying offers to KJ and EE. You either get a draft pick or you get an excellent player on a one year contract, seems like a win win to me.

Ya i don't see us as sellers to the pirates or mets