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View Full Version : Should Santos get his job back when he returns?



bartron_44
05-29-2012, 08:35 AM
I realize it sucks to lose your job to an injury, but I don't think we should just give him back the most important role in the bullpen until he is 100% ready to be a lock down closer. He has good stuff, but until he can control his fastball, I don't like him as our stopper...

Janssen is pitching lights out since becoming our closer. He is 4 for 4 in save opportunities, and has an ERA of 0.00 over the past 30 days (10.1 innings). I think Cordero should go to mop up duty once Santos gets back, and our back setup guys are Oliver,Perez and Santos in close game situations.

Would you take Janssen out of the closers role the way he is pitching?

lexecutioner
05-29-2012, 08:47 AM
I realize it sucks to lose your job to an injury, but I don't think we should just give him back the most important role in the bullpen until he is 100% ready to be a lock down closer. He has good stuff, but until he can control his fastball, I don't like him as our stopper...

Janssen is pitching lights out since becoming our closer. He is 4 for 4 in save opportunities, and has an ERA of 0.00 over the past 30 days (10.1 innings). I think Cordero should go to mop up duty once Santos gets back, and our back setup guys are Oliver,Perez and Santos in close game situations.

Would you take Janssen out of the closers role the way he is pitching?

At first I was like "Of course its his job! he didnt lose it" then I realize yeah Janssen has been great as closer right now might not want to mess with that until he fumbles.. Ill say give Santos some time to work on his stuff pitching not in the 9th. Then if Casey coughs up a game or 2 give Santos his seat.

AA09-?
05-29-2012, 09:34 AM
yes he's given it back.

Steely McBeam
05-29-2012, 09:43 AM
Where is Santos in terms of working his way back?

AA09-?
05-29-2012, 09:43 AM
Janssen should be the setup guy with Oliver.

Big Hurt
05-29-2012, 10:03 AM
Santos closes right away, Casey-thanks dude...great job, Codero-if the numer on the scoreboard is higher for the Jays than the opponents don't bother picking up a ball to warm up.

scottythegreat1
05-29-2012, 10:19 AM
I know Santos is supposed to be our closer, but Jannsen his done the job better than I expected. You cant just demote him to setup when he is doing the job perfectly. As far as Im concerned, the closers role is Jannsen's to lose.

LuckyLuke2
05-29-2012, 10:28 AM
This is actually a good question. The obvious answer would be hey give Santos the job when he comes back but ... I actually wouldn't want that to happen. Right away at least.

Janssen is a hard worker and he's done a very good job with the closing responsibilities. Many may disagree that Santos is our closer and should get it right away when he comes back, but I have always respected Janssen and how he pitches so I think him hanging on to close would be smart.

LuckyLuke2
05-29-2012, 10:30 AM
Where is Santos in terms of working his way back?

Apparently I was reading he's still a few weeks away. He said that he's been throwing about 90-120 feet but he's still feeling not the same.

so it's taken longer then expected, but in a few weeks they say he should be ready to get back. Probably by mid June, end of June.

craigerlee
05-29-2012, 10:44 AM
I'd give it back to him, you have to remember the 8th inning is just as important as 9th and the the 7th inning isn't too far off. So having Santos pitch earlier isn't gonna make that big of a difference than if he pitches the 9th. There maybe some marginal probability we come back and win it if he he blows it in the 7th as compared to the 9th, but I don't think it makes that big of a deal.

Kelly Gruber
05-29-2012, 10:50 AM
Let him work his way back in and see what happens. Not smart to throw a guy coming off of injury right into the closer role. Let him work his way back, but they traded a solid prospect for him to close games, so I'm sure we'll see that again by the end of the year.

bartron_44
05-29-2012, 11:31 AM
I think Janssen should be our closer. Santos should be in the setup role until he is dominating hitters with an ERA under 2.50. We can't afford to just give him the job again and prey he does the job. He has to take it from Casey now imo. It's not like he was our closer for the past 3 seasons and just went down for the first time..the guy was our closer for a week, and didn't exactly look very good out there before he got injured.

Ease him back in to ensure he doesn't cost this team any more W's, as every one of them is going to count at the end of this crazy season.

If we can sweep Baltimore, we will only be 2 or 3 games out of first place in the East before we head into the gauntlet otherwise known as the Blue Jays schedule in June of 2012.

darth helmet
05-29-2012, 11:49 AM
We gave up a pretty damn good prospect to get Santos so he really needs to come back and prove he's worth what he cost. I'm all for giving him his closer role back in hopes that he'll take the bull by the horns and really own it.

Janssen has been great and he's still on the team if Santos doesn't perform. Moving a very effective replacement into a different role isn't really a bad problem to have at all.

wagnall
05-29-2012, 12:08 PM
I doubt the closer that AA personally picked up will not close! Its his to lose, just nice we have a Janssen there to take it if he fails.

Toxeryll
05-29-2012, 03:00 PM
Santos - closer
Janssen - SetUp guy
Oliver - 7th or 8th inning guy against lefties
Frasor - 7th inning guy against righties
Perez - middle relief
Carlos V - long relief
Cordero - only for blowouts

LuckyLuke2
05-29-2012, 03:29 PM
Santos - closer
Janssen - SetUp guy
Oliver - 7th or 8th inning guy against lefties
Frasor - 7th inning guy against righties
Perez - middle relief
Carlos V - long relief
Cordero - only for blowouts

Probably. I could see Perez being the set up man, though. I am fine with either Janssen or Perez.

wagnall
05-29-2012, 03:33 PM
Santos - closer
Janssen - SetUp guy
Oliver - 7th or 8th inning guy against lefties
Frasor - 7th inning guy against righties
Perez - middle relief
Carlos V - long relief
Cordero - only for blowouts


Now with Cordero did you mean blow outs or blow something else..:o

FLeays
05-29-2012, 03:52 PM
I agree with the original poster...Janssen should keep the closer spot until he faulters. He has shown he can close and he even cleaned up Cordero's mess on Monday too for good measure.

They'll probably give it back to Santos though.

bomber0104
05-29-2012, 03:57 PM
they always say you shouldn't lose your job because of an injury..

jakedajewler
05-29-2012, 04:11 PM
I trust Janssen over any pitcher on the team

wagnall
05-29-2012, 04:26 PM
And I don't trust Cordero over anyone on the 25 man roster. LOL

ichitownclowni
05-30-2012, 01:55 AM
Man I love him, I hope he returns healthy and he becomes a great closer

Pride
05-30-2012, 02:20 AM
I'd say he would have to sort of work his way up, but Jansen would be given a very small leash. It was always Santos' job. Once he gets a few appearances in, he should regain the job.

mtf
05-30-2012, 03:56 AM
I doubt very much that they would let Janssen keep the job. Santos was acquired because they expect big things from him.

If it were me, I'd let Janssen keep the job until he loses it. He seems to be the most stable arm in the bullpen.

Raps08-09 Champ
05-30-2012, 05:19 AM
Santos - closer
Janssen - SetUp guy
Oliver - 7th or 8th inning guy against lefties
Frasor - 7th inning guy against righties
Perez - middle relief
Carlos V - long relief
Cordero - only for blowouts

I was thinking something like this.

bartron_44
05-30-2012, 08:00 AM
the Jays admitted that he was still a work in progress when they traded for him, and he is coming off an extended period on the DL. I think it would be kind of moronic on AA's behalf to blindly just give Santos back the closer role the moment he returns. I am not saying he shouldn't get it back eventually, but it has to be at least a gradual process to ensure he is capable of throwing strikes and dominating hitters.

Janssen hasn't blown a save yet (knock on wood :) ..) He was finally touched up a bit last night, but Adam Jones was on fire and is having a career year so I am not that concerned by him hitting his second HR of the night..

Valleyfella
05-30-2012, 08:15 AM
Let him work his way back in and see what happens. Not smart to throw a guy coming off of injury right into the closer role. Let him work his way back, but they traded a solid prospect for him to close games, so I'm sure we'll see that again by the end of the year.

This. I think they'll give Santos some innings earlier in games to start and see how he does. Assuming he does well, he'll get the closer role back. That's what he was brought to Toronto to do and as well as Janssen has pitched, he's more a set up guy than a closer.

North Yorker
05-30-2012, 01:45 PM
Let him work his way back in and see what happens. Not smart to throw a guy coming off of injury right into the closer role. Let him work his way back, but they traded a solid prospect for him to close games, so I'm sure we'll see that again by the end of the year.

Speaking of that solid prospect, a Nestor Molina update:

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=500882

Peripherals still look pretty good, but he sure is getting whacked around.

wagnall
05-30-2012, 02:07 PM
^ ya compared to 2010 and 2011 he is getting rocked this year. Different league?????

nithanyo
05-30-2012, 04:01 PM
Santos - closer
Janssen - SetUp guy
Oliver - 7th or 8th inning guy against lefties
Frasor - 7th inning guy against righties
Perez - middle relief
Carlos V - long relief
Cordero - only for blowouts

This.

except i think Cordero could be a bit more valuable if he gets into a groove. A big if though.

Jays Claw
05-30-2012, 05:03 PM
Santos would have to work his way back first - generally speaking of returning relievers from injuries. Have him pitch as the long man for a few games and then gradually promote him back to the closer's role. As of this date, I believe Janssen has earned the right to be our closer so it's not fair to demote his role just like that.

Dol-Fan
05-30-2012, 05:04 PM
Speaking of that solid prospect, a Nestor Molina update:

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=500882

Peripherals still look pretty good, but he sure is getting whacked around.

Even in the FSL he was giving up almost as many hits as IP. I think his brief dominance in AA was overvalued a bit.

Toxeryll
05-30-2012, 06:06 PM
Even in the FSL he was giving up almost as many hits as IP. I think his brief dominance in AA was overvalued a bit.

yup, good to see we sold high on him. FSL and EL are both pitcher friendly leagues.

wamco
05-31-2012, 06:55 AM
this offseason the jays showed no interest in casey as a closer and I wasn't sure why. It appeared he had more left in the tank than cordero then.

Halladay
05-31-2012, 10:12 AM
this offseason the jays showed no interest in casey as a closer and I wasn't sure why. It appeared he had more left in the tank than cordero then.

Because people automatically throw numbers around in terms of how hard a guy can throw. A lot of fans have this stupid notion that a guy needs to be able to blow hitters away with raw stuff which is simply incorrect. Casey is not a hard thrower at all but the numbers don't indicate that, he's one of the best pen arms in baseball but seems to fly right under the radar because he's not flashy. Santos was AA's prized pig this off-season so I wouldn't be shocked if he was thrown right back into the closers role which is okay by me, he is the teams closer after all. He can lose the job by pitching bad but not because of injury. It only makes the pen stronger when he's in there not these minor league scrubs we've been seeing and the god awful Cordero who's the only weak link we've got.

wamco
05-31-2012, 04:47 PM
that's fine for the fans to think that, but the organization made the moves.

ByShine
05-31-2012, 05:35 PM
janssen shudnt close
this guy just is not

wamco
05-31-2012, 06:29 PM
obviously

ktownguy31
05-31-2012, 06:34 PM
Is byshine drunk?

MrForever
05-31-2012, 08:28 PM
janssen shudnt close
this guy just is not

Very insightful. Thank you for this.

wamco
05-31-2012, 08:57 PM
Is byshine drunk?

obviously

JaysFan87
05-31-2012, 10:40 PM
Because people automatically throw numbers around in terms of how hard a guy can throw. A lot of fans have this stupid notion that a guy needs to be able to blow hitters away with raw stuff which is simply incorrect. Casey is not a hard thrower at all but the numbers don't indicate that, he's one of the best pen arms in baseball but seems to fly right under the radar because he's not flashy. Santos was AA's prized pig this off-season so I wouldn't be shocked if he was thrown right back into the closers role which is okay by me, he is the teams closer after all. He can lose the job by pitching bad but not because of injury. It only makes the pen stronger when he's in there not these minor league scrubs we've been seeing and the god awful Cordero who's the only weak link we've got.

No casey is not a hard thrower but he avg 92.1 with his FB last year in a one inning role can reach for 93/94 which is pretty fast. What you need to be successful is swing and miss stuff and Janssen has that and thats why he is successful. As a reliever he is averaging north of 8 K/9 which is why he has been successful in the pen.

nithanyo
06-01-2012, 02:32 AM
Im worried about Jansen closing cus of his rotator cuff tear a few years ago. Thats a serious issue and closing is an on-call job and you might have to pitch on consecutive nights.

bartron_44
06-01-2012, 08:44 AM
The strange thing about Cordero is that he can still reach back and throw 95mph ...but doesn't use it very often. (averaging 93 so far, but I have seen him hit 95 on many occasions this year)

Not sure why he doesn't trust his fastball more...he throws that change up almost 30% of the time, which is much higher then any other season. If he is going to throw it that much, he needs to throw more 93+ mph fastballs instead of sliders to create a difference in timing. His slider and change up are almost the same speed.

He is a quality reliever though, with a pretty consistent history. He pitched in a hitters haven in Cinci for the last 4 years and posted an ERA under 3.33 every year, he even had 2 seasons with and ERA under 2.50..including just last season.

He had an ERA of 2.03 or lower 4 of the 6 month last year, and one bad month. Take away that one bad inning in Oakland and he would have had an ERA around 2.61 in May.
Since that day in Oakland on May 8th, he is heading in the right direction. The other night against Baltimore is the only time he has been scored on in his last 11 appearances.

If he can give us even a couple months with an ERA under 2.00 like he did Cinci last year, he will be worth every penny we are paying him.

wamco
06-01-2012, 09:03 AM
I'm hoping cordero goes down with a season ending injury or is put in mop up duty. I have less than no faith in him and his super sweaty face.

damadmonk
06-01-2012, 09:35 AM
Sato's shouldn't close when he's healthy.

He hasn't proven this year he is reliable as a closer. Jansen has.

We don't need a Francisco Cordero situation again.

Get some innings under Sato's and re-evaluated when Sato's numbers > Jansen.

damadmonk
06-01-2012, 09:36 AM
I'm hoping cordero goes down with a season ending injury or is put in mop up duty. I have less than no faith in him and his super sweaty face.

I hope he picks it up enough to get an asset come trade deadline.

AA09-?
06-01-2012, 09:36 AM
I'm hoping cordero goes down with a season ending injury or is put in mop up duty. I have less than no faith in him and his super sweaty face.

One should never hope for this.:facepalm:

AA09-?
06-01-2012, 09:39 AM
Sato's shouldn't close when he's healthy.

He hasn't proven this year he is reliable as a closer. Jansen has.

We don't need a Francisco Cordero situation again.

Get some innings under Sato's and re-evaluated when Sato's numbers > Jansen.

5 innings is far too small of a sample size to take the closer's role from him...oh and his name is Santos not Satos.LOL

KaiserSose
06-01-2012, 10:02 AM
Who cares! Well apart from people who own them is fantasy leagues. Just use Santos, Janssen, and Oliver it the highest leverage situations and I'm good.

Toxeryll
06-01-2012, 03:01 PM
I hope he picks it up enough to get an asset come trade deadline.

this.

town123
06-01-2012, 04:36 PM
When Santos is ready... for sure he should be right back in the closer role. Why would you want to insult a competitive guy who thrives on being the man?

Also, considering AA dealt for him, he will be closing the moment he finishes his rehab MILB work.