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View Full Version : SAS: 'NBA Needs To Fall Back'



Cfrey
05-29-2012, 12:55 AM
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=320528014

thank god.. this **** needs to end

PleaseBeNice
05-29-2012, 01:01 AM
****ing hate NBA refs. Especially Crawford, Maloy, and that ***** Palmer

rwynyc
05-29-2012, 01:02 AM
these playoff games have turned me off from basketball.

i think i may be done now

C-Style
05-29-2012, 01:39 AM
I missed it, what happened?

pmariner14
05-29-2012, 01:45 AM
Look, its obvious at this point the NBA bureaucratic establishment has overstepped its boundaries. Casual fans of the sport are being lost because of the inability of officials to call a fair and unbiased game. "Preferential star treatment" is something that has been acknowledged for a long time now and is absolutely ridiculous. In what sport besides professional basketball are certain players or teams treated differently than others? If you are a fan of the Miami Heat: congratulations - you have yourself an extremely talented team. But do you not see that LeBron James and Dwyane Wade are treated as if they are agents of the Commissioners office to build the popularity of league and its greatest players? As a fan of basketball, I have absolutely no problem acknowledging that these are two of the leagues greatest players. However, by treating them as such by calling weak fouls against their defenders and failing to call any fouls on similar plays on the other end you are developing an environment where young elite players will enter the league expecting and subsequently receiving this star treatment that takes away from their overall potential. What happened to the days of tough, hardnosed basketball players who develop their reputations based off of superior performances in big games? Instead, we're forced to watch the NBA's best individual talents coast their way through big games because of their reputation. We can use tonight as an example. What did Ray Allen or Doc Rivers do tonight that LeBron James does not do on every (italics) single (italics) call (italics) made against him? Yes, players can disagree with calls of officials. Yes, they can do it an a respectful manner. Yes, believe it or not, this is a very emotional game. Why does LeBron James not recieve a technical foul when he argues every single call (perhaps he doesn't use any curse words, but absolutely "shows up" the referees via his body language)? I believe the NBA would be doing itself a great service if it just leveled the playing field. The great players in this league would become even greater. As a fan of professional basketball, I marvel at the skills these athletes possess. Please David Stern, do not create an environment where LeBron James can jump into a defender standing straight up and somehow find himself at the free throw line. Nobody wants to see that. Let's play tough, disciplined, fundamental basketball and see which team comes out on top. Glad Stephan A. stepped up to the plate on a major network and acknowledged this atrocity. Before you know it, the NBA will be the WWE.

popo85
05-29-2012, 01:50 AM
Just like his hairline did.

Fnom11
05-29-2012, 02:01 AM
Look, its obvious at this point the NBA bureaucratic establishment has overstepped its boundaries. Casual fans of the sport are being lost because of the inability of officials to call a fair and unbiased game. "Preferential star treatment" is something that has been acknowledged for a long time now and is absolutely ridiculous. In what sport besides professional basketball are certain players or teams treated differently than others? If you are a fan of the Miami Heat: congratulations - you have yourself an extremely talented team. But do you not see that LeBron James and Dwyane Wade are treated as if they are agents of the Commissioners office to build the popularity of league and its greatest players? As a fan of basketball, I have absolutely no problem acknowledging that these are two of the leagues greatest players. However, by treating them as such by calling weak fouls against their defenders and failing to call any fouls on similar plays on the other end you are developing an environment where young elite players will enter the league expecting and subsequently receiving this star treatment that takes away from their overall potential. What happened to the days of tough, hardnosed basketball players who develop their reputations based off of superior performances in big games? Instead, we're forced to watch the NBA's best individual talents coast their way through big games because of their reputation. We can use tonight as an example. What did Ray Allen or Doc Rivers do tonight that LeBron James does not do on every (italics) single (italics) call (italics) made against him? Yes, players can disagree with calls of officials. Yes, they can do it an a respectful manner. Yes, believe it or not, this is a very emotional game. Why does LeBron James not recieve a technical foul when he argues every single call (perhaps he doesn't use any curse words, but absolutely "shows up" the referees via his body language)? I believe the NBA would be doing itself a great service if it just leveled the playing field. The great players in this league would become even greater. As a fan of professional basketball, I marvel at the skills these athletes possess. Please David Stern, do not create an environment where LeBron James can jump into a defender standing straight up and somehow find himself at the free throw line. Nobody wants to see that. Let's play tough, disciplined, fundamental basketball and see which team comes out on top. Glad Stephan A. stepped up to the plate on a major network and acknowledged this atrocity. Before you know it, the NBA will be the WWE.


Didn't read any of this but Wade and Lebron didn't get any superstar call this game. The only questionable calls by the refs were the techs which have nothing to do with Wade and Lebron. However, the only legit tech was the Rondo one when he pushed Battier.

pmariner14
05-29-2012, 02:04 AM
What about when James was credited with a block on Rondo when it was clear that his elbow made contact with Rondo's head? Or any of the other plays where there was either a non-call or call against James/the Heat where LeBron complained (no less intensely than Allen or Doc) and was not called for a technical?? In my mind, after calling those techs, there is absolutely no justification for why one wouldn't be called on LeBron.

P.S. I don't think either of those techs can be justified and would prefer neither those or any on James would be called in the first place.

Dade County
05-29-2012, 02:09 AM
what about the jordan era and the lakers with shaq & kobe? why all this hate on the HEAT... smh

wtf is wrong with everyone... when Lbj and Wade didn't play together, they got to the line 9 to 11 times each, now it's a big deal since they play on the same team.

Thats one of the HEAT strength, to get to the foul line and cause the other team major problems; players fouling out .... etc

You people that are mad about the HEAT players going to the line, you better have been screaming from the top of your lungs when the lakers and bulls won their rings.

WadeKobe
05-29-2012, 02:09 AM
Can we stop pretending that this is about LeBron and Wade? They haven't begun to reach th elevel of "superstar calls" that Kobe lived off of.

Cfrey
05-29-2012, 02:14 AM
wtf lol get the **** out of my thread people if you are going to make this about lebron and wade because the problem is way bigger than those 2

pmariner14
05-29-2012, 02:14 AM
Can we stop pretending that this is about LeBron and Wade? They haven't begun to reach th elevel of "superstar calls" that Kobe lived off of.

Agreed! This is the problem. Can we agree that the NBA would be much better if elite players didn't receive preferential treatment? Kobe, Jordan, LeBron, Dwyane, Blake, whoever it is.. Just call a neutral game both ways!! What's wrong with that???

Max.This
05-29-2012, 02:15 AM
The celtics would've lost either way, but SAS does have a point. From flopping to officiating, the NBA has changed from the past whether you're a heat fan or celtic fan. There are going to be missed calls and that's bound to happen but it does look like what Tim donague(?)(no idea how to spell his last name) was saying when he called out a lot of the refs for betting

KobeOwnSU
05-29-2012, 02:20 AM
Money talks.

TopsyTurvy
05-29-2012, 02:23 AM
This wasn't even an example of a game called 'one way,' it was just terrible officiating throughout.

pmariner14
05-29-2012, 02:25 AM
Money talks.

Truth my dude. SMH as a fan but getcho paper homeboy. Christmas Cards to D. Stern all day

KeepMonta#8
05-29-2012, 02:26 AM
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: in any game everyone is gonna say it was the refs fault, "superstar calls" stern trying to make are team the worst or stern is making sure so and so team makes wins it alll, bulllshit! stop whining and if you dont like it dont watch it,

Teeboy1487
05-29-2012, 02:27 AM
Look, its obvious at this point the NBA bureaucratic establishment has overstepped its boundaries. Casual fans of the sport are being lost because of the inability of officials to call a fair and unbiased game. "Preferential star treatment" is something that has been acknowledged for a long time now and is absolutely ridiculous. In what sport besides professional basketball are certain players or teams treated differently than others?

If you are a fan of the Miami Heat: congratulations - you have yourself an extremely talented team. But do you not see that LeBron James and Dwyane Wade are treated as if they are agents of the Commissioners office to build the popularity of league and its greatest players? As a fan of basketball, I have absolutely no problem acknowledging that these are two of the leagues greatest players.

However, by treating them as such by calling weak fouls against their defenders and failing to call any fouls on similar plays on the other end you are developing an environment where young elite players will enter the league expecting and subsequently receiving this star treatment that takes away from their overall potential. What happened to the days of tough, hardnosed basketball players who develop their reputations based off of superior performances in big games? Instead, we're forced to watch the NBA's best individual talents coast their way through big games because of their reputation.

We can use tonight as an example. What did Ray Allen or Doc Rivers do tonight that LeBron James does not do on every (italics) single (italics) call (italics) made against him? Yes, players can disagree with calls of officials. Yes, they can do it an a respectful manner. Yes, believe it or not, this is a very emotional game. Why does LeBron James not recieve a technical foul when he argues every single call (perhaps he doesn't use any curse words, but absolutely "shows up" the referees via his body language)?

I believe the NBA would be doing itself a great service if it just leveled the playing field. The great players in this league would become even greater. As a fan of professional basketball, I marvel at the skills these athletes possess. Please David Stern, do not create an environment where LeBron James can jump into a defender standing straight up and somehow find himself at the free throw line. Nobody wants to see that. Let's play tough, disciplined, fundamental basketball and see which team comes out on top. Glad Stephan A. stepped up to the plat9e on a major network and acknowledged this atrocity. Before you know it, the NBA will be the WWE.

I read every word and this is one of the best posts I've seen on this site. Awesome points especially about casual fans being ran away. The nba makes it hard for casual fans to enjoy watching the game. Like me, as a casual fan right now (No Lakers), I actually turned to WWE because of the ridiculous calls :o.

I'm actually rooting for the Heat because of my deep-seeded hatred of the Celtics. I just can't stand seeing the refs manipulating the game even against my most hated team. All I want to see from the refs is the game called as fairly as possible with no agendas.

The Heat was winning that game tonight with or without the favor of the whistle. I'm so sick of the bias refereeing and the NBA needs to clean it up. It is taking away from the game. Instead of giving players techs for arguing with refs, start by holding the refs accountable for their horrid calls. Maybe it would be less arguing if the refs actually call the game right. JMO.

JJ_JKidd
05-29-2012, 02:36 AM
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=320528014

thank god.. this **** needs to end

I dont get it :confused:

Il Mago50
05-29-2012, 02:50 AM
Look, its obvious at this point the NBA bureaucratic establishment has overstepped its boundaries. Casual fans of the sport are being lost because of the inability of officials to call a fair and unbiased game. "Preferential star treatment" is something that has been acknowledged for a long time now and is absolutely ridiculous. In what sport besides professional basketball are certain players or teams treated differently than others? If you are a fan of the Miami Heat: congratulations - you have yourself an extremely talented team. But do you not see that LeBron James and Dwyane Wade are treated as if they are agents of the Commissioners office to build the popularity of league and its greatest players? As a fan of basketball, I have absolutely no problem acknowledging that these are two of the leagues greatest players. However, by treating them as such by calling weak fouls against their defenders and failing to call any fouls on similar plays on the other end you are developing an environment where young elite players will enter the league expecting and subsequently receiving this star treatment that takes away from their overall potential. What happened to the days of tough, hardnosed basketball players who develop their reputations based off of superior performances in big games? Instead, we're forced to watch the NBA's best individual talents coast their way through big games because of their reputation. We can use tonight as an example. What did Ray Allen or Doc Rivers do tonight that LeBron James does not do on every (italics) single (italics) call (italics) made against him? Yes, players can disagree with calls of officials. Yes, they can do it an a respectful manner. Yes, believe it or not, this is a very emotional game. Why does LeBron James not recieve a technical foul when he argues every single call (perhaps he doesn't use any curse words, but absolutely "shows up" the referees via his body language)? I believe the NBA would be doing itself a great service if it just leveled the playing field. The great players in this league would become even greater. As a fan of professional basketball, I marvel at the skills these athletes possess. Please David Stern, do not create an environment where LeBron James can jump into a defender standing straight up and somehow find himself at the free throw line. Nobody wants to see that. Let's play tough, disciplined, fundamental basketball and see which team comes out on top. Glad Stephan A. stepped up to the plate on a major network and acknowledged this atrocity. Before you know it, the NBA will be the WWE.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

In terms of the techs, watch how much Kobe, Lebron, Wade and CP3 ***** at a ref each and every game without being given a tech. You literally need to threaten a ref's life, tell him that "I f*cked yo b**ch" or throw your carefully placed anti balding headband at them.

Thank you for joining the fight. I've literally watched the Lakers series and nothing else this postseason. There are teams besides my Raptors, such as Chicago and San Antonio, that I can watch because they play hard, defend, are tough and play as a team, not individuals. Besides them, I have been totally turned off from this league and here's why...

There is no parody in this league anymore.

I encourage people to watch a round of the hockey playoffs please. The sport is literally won as a team and lost as a team. No single superstar can win the title nor an entire game on his own, as simple as that. As well, any team that gets into the playoffs has an equal shot to get hot and that can turn into a playoff run that could win them the cup. Look at who has won the cup in the last ten years...Carolina Hurricanes...Tampa Bay Lightning...Anaheim Ducks...one of the Devils or Kings this season...simply put, anything can happen. You need to play every game hard or you could cost yourselves the series.

And then we look at the NBA today. In every season, we have at most 4-5 teams that are true contenders to actually win the championship. Every other team in the league basically doesn't have a prayer of actually winning it and is kidding themselves if they think otherwise. As well, like it was beautifully mentioned in the quote, at times I don't even consider the NBA to be a man's sport anymore. The NBA sold it's soul for money and popularity. What was so wrong about those Knicks-Pacers playoff series' when you would literally get the **** kicked out of you driving to the lane because the other team was protecting it's basket? What was so wrong about the handchecking rule that allowed the defensive player to actually keep some contact on you when defending?

Pau Gasol's helpless screams of agony every time an opponent's breathe touches him perfectly describes what's happened in this league. Instead of being a man playing a contact sport, all you see now is guys like Kobe and Lebron *****ing that a foul wasn't called when a defender touches him on his non-shooting hand after the follow through. In the early 2000's, other then Sacramento and a handful of teams, no one averaged anywhere near 100 PPG. Last season, 20+ teams in the league averaged more then that and some teams in today's NBA get up to 110 PPG...

The unequal treatment of players is killing the league. Either call the same pinky finger foul for Matt Bonner shooting a three and White Mamba pulling up as you would for Kobe and Lebron or give the same true foul calls that you give the lesser players, it's one or the other. All that the referees do is further rift teams with marketable superstars from teams without it. If you really want a league like that, then contract the league to 10-12 teams so that every team has one superstar who gets those flaky calls.

I understand that after the Malace, the league wanted to clean up it's image. Unfortunately, I didn't know that it would mean completely taking the competition out of the league. What is the point of making the playoffs for 12-13 teams such as the Atlanta's, Sixers, Clippers, Nuggets, etc. if they know they have no chance to win the ship? What's the point of watching these games as fans knowing that your team has no chance to win it? That they are a ticking clock waiting to reach zero when an OKC or Miami sweep you? As a fan, you pray that you somehow end up with one of these players in the draft because otherwise, you're not ever going to sniff the Bill Russell Trophy. A single star or two should not be enough to propel a team to the championship, as simple as that. If those two stars are getting hit driving to the bucket, hard nosed defended each and every possession, and made to earn every point by grinding and draining themselves in the process, a lack of a supporting cast should mean that team does not win.

Unfortunately, that's not the case. Imagine for a minute what would happen to Lebron if he drove down the lane every possession against Anthony Mason and Charles Oakley and the Knicks in the 90's. You're hitting the deck. Imagine what Andre Igoudala with the hand checking rule gone could do the Lebron defensively. Kryptonite. Instead, if you now give someone even a half decent shot to discourage going back to the basket, you're thrown out of the game. If you knock them down, you get a flagrant foul. You use your forearm and you're called for a foul. And in turn, those superstars are getting to the line 10-15 times a game without so much as a scratch on them instead of being bruised and beaten.

In today's NBA, a loss for the Heat or other super teams does not matter because they know that sooner or later, the reffing and manner in which this game is played today will allow them to win a series.

What's the point of watching a league like this? I might as well read the synopsis of Coach Carter and then watch it on DVD knowing what's going to happen.

210Don
05-29-2012, 02:54 AM
I dont get it :confused:
lol you gotta watch the videos, theyre ina playlist sas is like the 3rd video

LeMarcus
05-29-2012, 03:09 AM
Asterisk for this years championship.
The worst officiating and a clear example of collusion by the commissioners and big market team owners.

Disgusting.

Wade>You
05-29-2012, 03:19 AM
:clap: :clap: :clap:

In terms of the techs, watch how much Kobe, Lebron, Wade and CP3 ***** at a ref each and every game without being given a tech. You literally need to threaten a ref's life, tell him that "I f*cked yo b**ch" or throw your carefully placed anti balding headband at them.

Thank you for joining the fight. I've literally watched the Lakers series and nothing else this postseason. There are teams besides my Raptors, such as Chicago and San Antonio, that I can watch because they play hard, defend, are tough and play as a team, not individuals. Besides them, I have been totally turned off from this league and here's why...

There is no parody in this league anymore.

I encourage people to watch a round of the hockey playoffs please. The sport is literally won as a team and lost as a team. No single superstar can win the title nor an entire game on his own, as simple as that. As well, any team that gets into the playoffs has an equal shot to get hot and that can turn into a playoff run that could win them the cup. Look at who has won the cup in the last ten years...Carolina Hurricanes...Tampa Bay Lightning...Anaheim Ducks...one of the Devils or Kings this season...simply put, anything can happen. You need to play every game hard or you could cost yourselves the series.

And then we look at the NBA today. In every season, we have at most 4-5 teams that are true contenders to actually win the championship. Every other team in the league basically doesn't have a prayer of actually winning it and is kidding themselves if they think otherwise. As well, like it was beautifully mentioned in the quote, at times I don't even consider the NBA to be a man's sport anymore. The NBA sold it's soul for money and popularity. What was so wrong about those Knicks-Pacers playoff series' when you would literally get the **** kicked out of you driving to the lane because the other team was protecting it's basket? What was so wrong about the handchecking rule that allowed the defensive player to actually keep some contact on you when defending?

Pau Gasol's helpless screams of agony every time an opponent's breathe touches him perfectly describes what's happened in this league. Instead of being a man playing a contact sport, all you see now is guys like Kobe and Lebron *****ing that a foul wasn't called when a defender touches him on his non-shooting hand after the follow through. In the early 2000's, other then Sacramento and a handful of teams, no one averaged anywhere near 100 PPG. Last season, 20+ teams in the league averaged more then that and some teams in today's NBA get up to 110 PPG...

The unequal treatment of players is killing the league. Either call the same pinky finger foul for Matt Bonner shooting a three and White Mamba pulling up as you would for Kobe and Lebron or give the same true foul calls that you give the lesser players, it's one or the other. All that the referees do is further rift teams with marketable superstars from teams without it. If you really want a league like that, then contract the league to 10-12 teams so that every team has one superstar who gets those flaky calls.

I understand that after the Malace, the league wanted to clean up it's image. Unfortunately, I didn't know that it would mean completely taking the competition out of the league. What is the point of making the playoffs for 12-13 teams such as the Atlanta's, Sixers, Clippers, Nuggets, etc. if they know they have no chance to win the ship? What's the point of watching these games as fans knowing that your team has no chance to win it? That they are a ticking clock waiting to reach zero when an OKC or Miami sweep you? As a fan, you pray that you somehow end up with one of these players in the draft because otherwise, you're not ever going to sniff the Bill Russell Trophy. A single star or two should not be enough to propel a team to the championship, as simple as that. If those two stars are getting hit driving to the bucket, hard nosed defended each and every possession, and made to earn every point by grinding and draining themselves in the process, a lack of a supporting cast should mean that team does not win.

Unfortunately, that's not the case. Imagine for a minute what would happen to Lebron if he drove down the lane every possession against Anthony Mason and Charles Oakley and the Knicks in the 90's. You're hitting the deck. Imagine what Andre Igoudala with the hand checking rule gone could do the Lebron defensively. Kryptonite. Instead, if you now give someone even a half decent shot to discourage going back to the basket, you're thrown out of the game. If you knock them down, you get a flagrant foul. You use your forearm and you're called for a foul. And in turn, those superstars are getting to the line 10-15 times a game without so much as a scratch on them instead of being bruised and beaten.

In today's NBA, a loss for the Heat or other super teams does not matter because they know that sooner or later, the reffing and manner in which this game is played today will allow them to win a series.

What's the point of watching a league like this? I might as well read the synopsis of Coach Carter and then watch it on DVD knowing what's going to happen.All this for a team that has only won 1 title vs a team that has won 17. Small market teams everywhere: you don't stand a chance.

LA_Raiders
05-29-2012, 03:23 AM
It is all about the $$$ the show and the drama...

NBA is becoming the WWE of sports...

Stern is a ****ing dictator, I cant believe the Goverment is not all over his ***...

Wade>You
05-29-2012, 03:28 AM
It is all about the $$$ the show and the drama...

NBA is becoming the WWE of sports...

Stern is a ****ing dictator, I cant believe the Goverment is not all over his ***...
Lakers have more titles under Stern than any other team. 16 in total. Lol if people are buying this from LAKER fans of all people.

Shlumpledink
05-29-2012, 03:29 AM
Flopping is a big issue too. Refs get caught up in the emotion of far too many games. I think the only way to fix it is to clean house and get an all new crop of officials. Sure, they're not all bad but they are pretty consistent with how they call games. Certain players get to the line more than others. Certain players are known floppers and the officials continue to buy into it.

Double technicals do nothing and should be eliminated. Officials need to sack up and make a decision, even if its not popular. If someone walks up to you and pushes you, you can't push back or else you both get the same treatment? This has nothing to do with the boston/miami game as i didn't watch it at all.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-29-2012, 03:49 AM
WTF is this thread about????

krazylegz
05-29-2012, 03:58 AM
Didn't read any of this but Wade and Lebron didn't get any superstar call this game. The only questionable calls by the refs were the techs which have nothing to do with Wade and Lebron. However, the only legit tech was the Rondo one when he pushed Battier.

if you didnt read the post,then why respond with the quote??

Fnom11
05-29-2012, 04:04 AM
if you didnt read the post,then why respond with the quote??

Thought the thread should be directed solely at the referees and not the players.

ESaady
05-29-2012, 04:05 AM
Came into the thread thinking it was about the San Antonio Spurs.

It's actually about Stephen A Smith and officiating.

Here's the link for the vid that's the base for this thread:
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:7981986

tcav701
05-29-2012, 04:55 AM
Im not going to attempt to say that the officiating had anything to do with the outcome of the game.

But what I will say is the fact we can talk about NBA officiating after almost every big game is a problem.

It's always been embarrassing to me the the league caters to superstars and groupie NBA fans rather than clean up the game for true fans. Trust me, this is not a knock on the Heat, it is just simply their turn to be force-fed to the world.

Only game I've ever seen where the refs need to be stars too.

amos1er
05-29-2012, 05:25 AM
Look, its obvious at this point the NBA bureaucratic establishment has overstepped its boundaries. Casual fans of the sport are being lost because of the inability of officials to call a fair and unbiased game. "Preferential star treatment" is something that has been acknowledged for a long time now and is absolutely ridiculous. In what sport besides professional basketball are certain players or teams treated differently than others? If you are a fan of the Miami Heat: congratulations - you have yourself an extremely talented team. But do you not see that LeBron James and Dwyane Wade are treated as if they are agents of the Commissioners office to build the popularity of league and its greatest players? As a fan of basketball, I have absolutely no problem acknowledging that these are two of the leagues greatest players. However, by treating them as such by calling weak fouls against their defenders and failing to call any fouls on similar plays on the other end you are developing an environment where young elite players will enter the league expecting and subsequently receiving this star treatment that takes away from their overall potential. What happened to the days of tough, hardnosed basketball players who develop their reputations based off of superior performances in big games? Instead, we're forced to watch the NBA's best individual talents coast their way through big games because of their reputation. We can use tonight as an example. What did Ray Allen or Doc Rivers do tonight that LeBron James does not do on every (italics) single (italics) call (italics) made against him? Yes, players can disagree with calls of officials. Yes, they can do it an a respectful manner. Yes, believe it or not, this is a very emotional game. Why does LeBron James not recieve a technical foul when he argues every single call (perhaps he doesn't use any curse words, but absolutely "shows up" the referees via his body language)? I believe the NBA would be doing itself a great service if it just leveled the playing field. The great players in this league would become even greater. As a fan of professional basketball, I marvel at the skills these athletes possess. Please David Stern, do not create an environment where LeBron James can jump into a defender standing straight up and somehow find himself at the free throw line. Nobody wants to see that. Let's play tough, disciplined, fundamental basketball and see which team comes out on top. Glad Stephan A. stepped up to the plate on a major network and acknowledged this atrocity. Before you know it, the NBA will be the WWE.

OMG...I agree with what you are saying, but please use paragraphs next time. I could only read about 1/4 of what you wrote without losing my place and reading the same line twice. About 1/2 way through I got a headache and just skimmed the rest for buzz words.

shizzle09
05-29-2012, 06:05 AM
Heat win its refs refs refs. Heat lose Lebron is a choke artist and wade is washed up. funny how that works.

tcav701
05-29-2012, 06:23 AM
Heat win its refs refs refs. Heat lose Lebron is a choke artist and wade is washed up. funny how that works.

Are you really that naive?

You wont find many people that think the refs played a role in the outcome. Saying the officiating was poor does not always mean the refs cost a team the game.

So I'll ask you this,

Do you truly not think Wade and LBJ get the benefit of most calls?

Do the refs not bite on almost every one of their flops?

Do Wade and LeBron not complain more than anyone when there are no call after their drives? How many techs are called when they complain?

Why is it the Heat had the longest record without a player fouling out after acquiring the big 3?

LeBron is a very aggressive, intense, great defender. Take a look at playoff minutes played and total fouls. Does that compute?


Again, this did not effect the game last night but anyone with half a brain can see that superstars and their teams play by a different set of rules, especially when money is on the line for the league.

And its not the Heat that started it, it has been that way with many teams before. Point is the proof is in the pudding.

basketfan4life
05-29-2012, 06:38 AM
Can we stop pretending that this is about LeBron and Wade? They haven't begun to reach th elevel of "superstar calls" that Kobe lived off of.

you are so funny.

OutOfTHEBLUE
05-29-2012, 07:44 AM
:clap: :clap: :clap:

In terms of the techs, watch how much Kobe, Lebron, Wade and CP3 ***** at a ref each and every game without being given a tech. You literally need to threaten a ref's life, tell him that "I f*cked yo b**ch" or throw your carefully placed anti balding headband at them.

Actually, Kobe was tied for 9th for most technical fouls called against him this year with a total of 9 T's in 58 games.

Wade (6 T's in 49 games) and LeBron (3 T's in 63 games) combined to tie Kobe. For the real math nerds out there, that means that on average Kobe got a T in 15.5% of games played, whereas a Wade + Lebron combo got a T in 8.0% of games played.

http://mediacentral.nba.com/media/mediacentral/TechStatus.pdf

Make of that what you will...

justinnum1
05-29-2012, 07:48 AM
ed malloy (http://2media.nowpublic.net/images//56/7d/567d4330074c3b1bfe5065581ea096db.jpg)

javsvt
05-29-2012, 08:04 AM
NBA wants the Heat and OKC in the finals so bad, hopefully the Spurs don't let that happen and win it all.:D

tcav701
05-29-2012, 08:07 AM
Just listened to our favorite rouge ref on talk radio and here's some tid bits on what he had to say:

Before every big series the officials are sat down and given some instructions by league executives.

In this case, it is evident that the league instructed the officials to take control early in the series and not to be afraid of giving out quick technicals.

Though never instucted, he also said that many officials in this case call techs on the visiting team so that the crowd does not become irate.

He also stated that not so subtle hints are given to call more fouls on the team the league does not want to advance. How this is done is the officials are shown video of calls they would like to see enforced. For example they might show KG's famous illegal screens that never get called and tell the refs to call them. They do not flat out tell the refs to call the game for one team, but it always seems that the infractions shown are always those of the less marketable team.

He also noted that big name refs are not penalized for their poor calls, so it can be argued that these bad calls are by design and not by mistake.

You can say what you want about Tim, but he has more insight than everyone on PSD combined.

I Rock Shaqs
05-29-2012, 08:26 AM
Amen

thekmp211
05-29-2012, 08:35 AM
i think 80% of that is probably true tcav.

not that a lot of people on here would know this, but it's just standard corporate nepotism.

crowd control and keeping the game clean is a noble cause, even if the officiating has become a mess. keep in mind the metta world elbow that kinda put everyone in the league on watch before the playoffs started.

the other thing is these teams are dead tired. it's been a tough, condensed season everyone is starting to show it. in the east anyway....

tcav701
05-29-2012, 08:41 AM
i think 80% of that is probably true tcav.

not that a lot of people on here would know this, but it's just standard corporate nepotism.

crowd control and keeping the game clean is a noble cause, even if the officiating has become a mess. keep in mind the metta world elbow that kinda put everyone in the league on watch before the playoffs started.

the other thing is these teams are dead tired. it's been a tough, condensed season everyone is starting to show it. in the east anyway....

Well everything in my last post was out of the mouth of a former NBA official.

I understand that all buinesses attempt to manipulate things to create more profit while appearing politicaly correct. The NBA is no different.

thekmp211
05-29-2012, 08:49 AM
^ of course. keep on mind donaghy's motives though as well is all i'll say.

i get it. the difference though between that and what some "fans" seem to think goes on is i guess the difference between lots of things in life. find it funny that fans of a sport get off on complaining about it constantly.

you think they have magnets in the basketball??

justinnum1
05-29-2012, 08:51 AM
Refs refs refs :cry:

MagicHero3
05-29-2012, 08:53 AM
Didn't read any of this but Wade and Lebron didn't get any superstar call this game. The only questionable calls by the refs were the techs which have nothing to do with Wade and Lebron. However, the only legit tech was the Rondo one when he pushed Battier.

did u seriously just respond to that without reading it? typical heat fan- premature. premature answers, premature responses, premature celebrations.

yankeesfan09
05-29-2012, 08:54 AM
Fact is fact. The NBA have become softer. It's not the same league of the 80's. Personally, its a huge turn off and this playoffs in general have to rank high on the worst refs calls that I have seen. Say what you will about Tim Donaghy, but every time I see crap like this going on his Canseco words echo in the back of my mind.

tcav701
05-29-2012, 08:55 AM
^ of course. keep on mind donaghy's motives though as well is all i'll say.

i get it. the difference though between that and what some "fans" seem to think goes on is i guess the difference between lots of things in life. find it funny that fans of a sport get off on complaining about it constantly.

you think they have magnets in the basketball??

Hahaha absolutely not, but youre claiming there is nothing in between.

And as a paying customer, fans have the right to want a clean game.

Of course an OKC/MIA final is best for revenue, but at what cost?

Oh and the Miami fans that are condemning those upset with the officiating, go back and look at your posts during last years final.

thekmp211
05-29-2012, 09:00 AM
nah we are agreeing. that last comment was targeted towards others.

i definitely want better reffing. they'd be better off just not priming the guys anymore. but that happens in all sports.

we just have an opportunity in hoops with instant replay to really help the cause without ruining the game too much, expanding the use of instant replay nad perhaps having something like the NHL (a central replay office that keeps tabs on all games) to make it faster and less clumsy.

i think, ironically, the league would benefit more if OKC and miami had to wait another year.

daleja424
05-29-2012, 09:02 AM
only problem I saw with this game was a couple quick techs on Boston that were iffy... (really mainly the Doc Rivers tech)

But from every other standpoint this was a very evenly officiated game. The refs let a lot of body contact slide both ways...and I am okay with that. And the only team that called for moving screens (ironically)...was Miami.

tcav701
05-29-2012, 09:03 AM
nah we are agreeing. that last comment was targeted towards others.

i definitely want better reffing. they'd be better off just not priming the guys anymore. but that happens in all sports.

we just have an opportunity in hoops with instant replay to really help the cause without ruining the game too much, expanding the use of instant replay nad perhaps having something like the NHL (a central replay office that keeps tabs on all games) to make it faster and less clumsy.

i think, ironically, the league would benefit more if OKC and miami had to wait another year.

Oh, ok.

And I have my own theroy as to why Lebron will be in the finals again this year but not win it till next year. It absolutely makes for a better story that LeBron comes close bit falls just short.

It's been the biggest story in the NBA the last 2-3 years so why not keep it going?

daleja424
05-29-2012, 09:04 AM
anyways... I think that a lot of people are falling victim to conformational bias with reguards to superstar calls. Wade and Lebron were attacking the paint and drawing contact ALL GAME and only combined to shoot 14 FTs off of the attacks. As a team Miami shot only 2 more free throws than Boston (and 5 of Miami's FT weren't even related to personal fouls). I really fail to see all those Superstar calls. In fact, on a couple of plays they got absolutely flattened without a call being made.

tcav701
05-29-2012, 09:09 AM
anyways... I think that a lot of people are falling victim to conformational bias with reguards to superstar calls. Wade and Lebron were attacking the paint and drawing contact ALL GAME and only combined to shoot 14 FTs off of the attacks. As a team Miami shot only 2 more free throws than Boston (and 5 of Miami's FT weren't even related to personal fouls). I really fail to see all those Superstar calls. In fact, on a couple of plays they got absolutely flattened without a call being made.

I havent seen anyone in this thread complain about personal fouls in last nights game.

thekmp211
05-29-2012, 09:09 AM
^^ right on. those guys are special talents because they can attack like that, and take the poundings. not everyone in the league on the perimeter deserves a ton of foul calls. wade made a couple unbelievable And 1 layups. he's one of the best ever at that.

daleja424
05-29-2012, 09:11 AM
I havent seen anyone in this thread complain about personal fouls in last nights game.

No one in this thread... but twitter was lighting up last night with people complaining about home cooking.

I simply didnt see that last night. I think there are A LOT of people out there that NEED the HEAT to fail... and when they dont there has to be some reason...

tcav701
05-29-2012, 09:15 AM
No one in this thread... but twitter was lighting up last night with people complaining about home cooking.

I simply didnt see that last night. I think there are A LOT of people out there that NEED the HEAT to fail... and when they dont there has to be some reason...

Many people's dislike for the heat plays heavily into how they see things. Just like the way some people love the heat cause them to see things in a different light.

There are many haters and many groupies, PSD is the perfect exapmle of that.

But some peoples frustration, including my own, is that different players and by extension, different teams play by different rules than others. This is something I disagree with in my professional and personal life so it's just natural I disgree with it in sports.

It's not the Heat's fault, they don't have whistles. It is simply their turn to get force fed to the world.

daleja424
05-29-2012, 09:18 AM
Many people's dislike for the heat plays heavily into how they see things. Just like the way some people love the heat cause them to see things in a different light.

There are many haters and many groupies, PSD is the perfect exapmle of that.

But some peoples frustration, including my own, is that different players and by extension, different teams play by different rules than others. This is something I disagree with in my professional and personal life so it's just natural I disgree with it in sports.

It's not the Heat's fault, they don't have whistles. It is simply their turn to get force fed to the world.

outside of two iffy technical foul calls that I believe resulted in zero points though...what is your basis for believing that the HEAT and Celts weren't on a level playing field last night?

It was the HEAT that was getting called for off ball fouls, moving screens, traveling, etc (The ticky tack stuff) last night... no?

daleja424
05-29-2012, 09:19 AM
I understand that you would like to see an even game called... and you want a level playing field...

That all sounds great.

But what in last night's game wasn't level (with the exception of the Doc tech)

tcav701
05-29-2012, 09:22 AM
outside of two iffy technical foul calls that I believe resulted in zero points though...what is your basis for believing that the HEAT and Celts weren't on a level playing field last night?

It was the HEAT that was getting called for off ball fouls, moving screens, traveling, etc (The ticky tack stuff) last night... no?

I wasnt soley referencing last nights game.

But in the larger picture, yes the heat have played by a different set of rules since the decision.

As far as last night, the personal fouls were even, fair and they allowed playoff basketball which is a good thing. The techs were obviously premeditated to "control the series early", and was what got fans upset. Which they should be.

The only tech that was legitamite was Rondo's.

king2218
05-29-2012, 09:38 AM
The tech on Ray Allen was not deserving. What he did was turn around and yell which is what Perkins does after 99% of the foul calls. D-Wade stares at the referees, yelling and throws his hand up after a no call. Officiating is very biased. And the flopping makes it worse. Not sure what the NBA can do about it though.

daleja424
05-29-2012, 09:41 AM
so then why are we have this discussion this morning...

if you agree this game was officiated well then why is this even a discussion at this point?

I hate people like SAS that will grab at anything to rile people up and get views...even when he is completely of base (Skip Bayless is another one)

tcav701
05-29-2012, 09:46 AM
You aren't grasping the issue.

Personal Fouls and in game calls were even and officiated about as good as possible for these frauds.

Technical fouls were not. They were clearly premeditated and resrved for the away team. Yes, it only translated to 2 points but that doesnt justify it even though you are hoping it would.

GiantsSwaGG
05-29-2012, 10:25 AM
The refs play for Heat, what do you expect!

daleja424
05-29-2012, 11:41 AM
You aren't grasping the issue.

Personal Fouls and in game calls were even and officiated about as good as possible for these frauds.

Technical fouls were not. They were clearly premeditated and resrved for the away team. Yes, it only translated to 2 points but that doesnt justify it even though you are hoping it would.

actually it translated to one extra point.

People are making a big deal out of five technicals... but only 2 of them were for arguing a call. Two of them were procedural (delay of game and defensive three seconds)...and Rondo's was a no brainer. Two iffy FT attempts... TWO. In the entire game... with Miami at home. Come on....

It must be rigged though... B/c the NBA def didn't want NY, LA, Chicago, etc in the finals... they prefer the Spurs :rolleyes:

Natedogg1974
05-29-2012, 11:51 AM
nobody likes the ****ing heat they complain about everything they r a bunch of floppers and whinny *****

Max.This
05-29-2012, 11:53 AM
Telling heat fans the game is rigged is like telling the 1% to pay more taxes.

Teeboy1487
05-29-2012, 11:54 AM
This is not about the Heat. It's about the refs.

Natedogg1974
05-29-2012, 11:55 AM
yeah refs have been ****** the whole playoffs i agree 100% with that

torocan
05-29-2012, 12:13 PM
Superstar calls go far beyond Wade/Lebron.

Kobe, Jordan, Griffin, Melo, etc all get star calls.

They need to be eliminated. I watch to see good basketball, and it's harder to enjoy it when you KNOW that some players get away with murder, and other players get hammered.

I wasn't a fan of Jordan's superstar calls. It robbed the fans of the experience of seeing how good Jordan *could* have been without the benefit of the Ref's whistle.

And the way they ref 3-seconds, travels, palming and contact is so inconsistent it's atrocious.

I just want the refs to Call the Game consistently and LET THEM PLAY.

I don't want zero contact and I don't want a fist fight on the floor. I would however like to see the same calls hit on every player whether they sell a ton of jerseys or not.

Those T's on Allen and Doc were just another example in the long line of the Refs going hard on some players, and easy on other players.

It gets old fast. :facepalm:

3RDASYSTEM
05-29-2012, 12:23 PM
Some of the worst officiating ever, almost travesty

Appreciate the quotes from the rogue ref more and more daily

Cfrey
05-29-2012, 12:32 PM
First off, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with LeBron and Wade and I'm ashamed at the posters who automatically jumped to to that conclusion. This is about what Stephen A Smith had to say about NBA officiating and was way more closely related to the technicals that the Celtics received. Now I did not get to see the game last night because I had work but after listening to SAS comments about the technicals, specifically the ones Doc and Allen received, I immediately understood where he was coming from. The NBA front office needs to make a stand at officials who blow the whistle too often and for the wrong things.

Example 1: Doc says "come on ed" and gets a tech. One of the most pathetic techs I have ever even heard about. Notice that this has absolutely nothing to do with LeBron James and Dwayne Wade? Funny right.

Example 2: Ray says "no!" and turns away. Another pathetic tech that also has nothing to do with LeBron James and Dwayne Wade.

SO what does that mean? That means that NBA officiating is a problem all AROUND the league.

Why are people continuing to single out LeBron and Wade for something they have no control over?

These guys don't blow the ****ing whistle. The dudes in the stripes blow the whistle and the dudes in the front office have softened the game. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Heat.

In addition, how can people be complaining about preferential treatment for star players? Specifically, how can people be complaining about preferential treatment that LeBron and Wade get? This is getting absolutely absurd. Why don't we just forget about Kobe, AKA the player who transformed the game with his antics on the court when he didn't get a call.. Why don't we talk about Rose and Durant and all the other stars that you could say get "special treatment".

Again, this isn't just LeBron and Wade. So you people need to grow the **** up

Stinkyoutsider
05-29-2012, 12:54 PM
Although I HATE it, I expect the NBA to be this way until we fans make it clear we aren't going to take it anymore. The NBA is a buisness who profits on fans to buy the gear and watch the game. The NBA knows that people want to see the superstars play well but I think most of us are tired of the foul calls not going both ways.

I would like to see star players beat lesser players because their better players, not because the lesser players have to sit on the bench for poor foul calls.

ManRam
05-29-2012, 12:58 PM
The first half of yesterday was bad. Incredibly tight, and some very loose technicals doled out. Luckily it didn't impact the result of the game...especially since two of those T's were missed.

What I don't get is how come every assumes that a few bad calls is always something more than just a few bad calls. Like, why is it that "the league needs to fall back"? Maybe it was just the refs who acted poorly at those split seconds. It's not always something bigger than what it actually is. It could be, but it never seems like anyone just says "you know what, the refs made some bad calls, but they're humans, and that's that". It always seems to jump to "rigged!" and "Stern's fixing games" and "it's the league's fault"...it's never just "the refs made some bad calls". It's always something grander. I don't think it is always, or even usually, anything grander than refs making poor decisions in the heat of the moment without the ability to think it over and use instant replay/see things in slow mo/see things from better angles...

Jumi
05-29-2012, 01:02 PM
Although I HATE it, I expect the NBA to be this way until we fans make it clear we aren't going to take it anymore. The NBA is a buisness who profits on fans to buy the gear and watch the game. The NBA knows that people want to see the superstars play well but I think most of us are tired of the foul calls not going both ways.

I would like to see star players beat lesser players because their better players, not because the lesser players have to sit on the bench for poor foul calls.

this

You can watch a game and see a guy play great defense against a superstar player and get called for a foul because the guy doesn't have the "reputation" as a defensive specialist like Bowen or Artest. He can move his feet well, cutoff the angles and just be a pest to the offensive player, but he's going to the bench with two quick fouls! It's getting lame. In the regular season, I can deal with it, but not in the playoffs! C'mon Man!!

tcav701
05-29-2012, 01:04 PM
You sir, are a moron.

If the league was going to rig the finals why the hell would they cost themselves millions and millions of dollars by eliminating the biggest market teams?

In the east we have the 5th biggest market vs. the 12th biggest market

In the west we have the 24th biggest US market vs. 30th biggest market

Brilliant logic you got there...

The NBA always has been and always will be a STAR driven league.

LeBron and Wade are on the Heat. Durnat and Westbrook are on the Thunder.

It is players, not cities that are going to draw NATIONAL INTEREST.

Your argument would only make sense if games were not nationally televised or if there was an actually correltaion between population and basketball interest.

tcav701
05-29-2012, 01:09 PM
this

You can watch a game and see a guy play great defense against a superstar player and get called for a foul because the guy doesn't have the "reputation" as a defensive specialist like Bowen or Artest. He can move his feet well, cutoff the angles and just be a pest to the offensive player, but he's going to the bench with two quick fouls! It's getting lame. In the regular season, I can deal with it, but not in the playoffs! C'mon Man!!

LeBron has played big minutes aggressively guarding Melo (5 games) Granger (6 games) and Pierce (1 game). We could say they are the 3rd best, 5th best and 4th best SF respectively. I challenge anyone to look at how many fouls have been called on him this postseason.

Another fun fact:

Heat opponents this year: 23 techs
Heat this year : 5 techs

I didnít want to make this about the heat and nobody really did until their groupies came to defend them. But if thatís how this thread is going, I will play that game.

tredigs
05-29-2012, 01:10 PM
The first half of yesterday was bad. Incredibly tight, and some very loose technicals doled out. Luckily it didn't impact the result of the game...especially since two of those T's were missed.

What I don't get is how come every assumes that a few bad calls is always something more than just a few bad calls. Like, why is it that "the league needs to fall back"? Maybe it was just the refs who acted poorly at those split seconds. It's not always something bigger than what it actually is. It could be, but it never seems like anyone just says "you know what, the refs made some bad calls, but they're humans, and that's that". It always seems to jump to "rigged!" and "Stern's fixing games" and "it's the league's fault"...it's never just "the refs made some bad calls". It's always something grander. I don't think it is always, or even usually, anything grander than refs making poor decisions in the heat of the moment without the ability to think it over and use instant replay/see things in slow mo/see things from better angles...

I agree, although the opposite is not out of the realm of possibility. The opposite being that it came down from the league office to take an active role doling out quick T's to anyone who disagreed with any emotion (similar to month 1 of last years season, which most would agree was absolutely insane. You can't just expect people with that much adrenaline pumping to calmly accept anythinig you say, especially if they were indeed blatantly wrong. It's oppressive and not realistic to human emotion. That said, obviously NBA'ers whining was out of control and something should have been done, they just took it too far). And what I gathered from Smith's rant was that he said these refs (who he knew) never would have acted this quickly on those T's without orders from a higher up.

Whether or not he thought they were directed to be this way in general or just towards the Celtics was something he did not touch, so it's tough to gauge his feelings there. But whether or not that's the case DRASTICALLY changes what point he is making, it's too bad he was too scared/vague to come out and say it. And frankly there were no instances from any of the Heat that could have potentially warranted a T so it's a largely moot point in this case (I saw someone mention Lebron saying "yeah, yeah" in front of KG as taunting, but that's just stupid. It was just his way of sort of drowning out KG while KG talked **** into his ear as he always does).

tcav701
05-29-2012, 01:14 PM
I agree, although the opposite is not out of the realm of possibility. The opposite being that it came down from the league office to take an active role doling out quick T's to anyone who disagreed with any emotion (similar to month 1 of last years season, which most would agree was absolutely insane. You can't just expect people with that much adrenaline pumping to calmly accept anythinig you say, especially if they were indeed blatantly wrong. It's oppressive and not realistic to human emotion. That said, obviously NBA'ers whining was out of control and something should have been done, they just took it too far). And what I gathered from Smith's rant was that he said these refs (who he knew) never would have acted this quickly on those T's without orders from a higher up.

Whether or not he thought they were directed to be this way in general or just towards the Celtics was something he did not touch, so it's tough to gauge his feelings there. But whether or not that's the case DRASTICALLY changes what point he is making, it's too bad he was too scared/vague to come out and say it. And frankly there were no instances from any of the Heat that could have potentially warranted a T so it's a largely moot point in this case (I saw someone mention Lebron saying "yeah, yeah" in front of KG as taunting, but that's just stupid. It was just his way of sort of drowning out KG while KG talked **** into his ear as he always does).

Tim Donaghy was on WEEI this morning and gave what I think is pretty honest and level headed insight on the meetingc that occur between higher and refs before a big series.

I think it is at minimum food for thought for everyone interested in this discussion.

ManRam
05-29-2012, 01:17 PM
I agree, although the opposite is not out of the realm of possibility. The opposite being that it came down from the league office to take an active role doling out quick T's to anyone who disagreed with any emotion (similar to month 1 of last years season, which most would agree was absolutely insane. You can't just expect people with that much adrenaline pumping to calmly accept anythinig you say, especially if they were indeed blatantly wrong. It's oppressive and not realistic to human emotion. That said, obviously NBA'ers whining was out of control and something should have been done, they just took it too far). And what I gathered from Smith's rant was that he said these refs (who he knew) never would have acted this quickly on those T's without orders from a higher up.

Whether or not he thought they were directed to be this way in general or just towards the Celtics was something he did not touch, so it's tough to gauge his feelings there. But whether or not that's the case DRASTICALLY changes what point he is making, it's too bad he was too scared/vague to come out and say it. And frankly there were no instances from any of the Heat that could have potentially warranted a T so it's a largely moot point in this case (I saw someone mention Lebron saying "yeah, yeah" in front of KG as taunting, but that's just stupid. It was just his way of sort of drowning out KG while KG talked **** into his ear as he always does).

True. My point is that it's ALWAYS "Stern's fault" or it's always "rigging"...it's never just the refs messing up. I can't prove that there isn't fixing or anything, but I'd like to think most of the time it is just honest mistakes.

There's three of them watching 10 guys, most of whom are freakishly athletic. The speed of the game is crazy. To expect these guys to get every call right, especially calls that we only determine were wrong because we saw replay, better angles and slow motion, is just wrong. And it seems the majority of people here don't get that and that they just jump right into their conspiracy talk and rigging narratives.


The technicals are different to an extent. But still, those can be adrenaline induced. I think they handled at least 2 of those wrong (then again, do we know exactly what was said?), but I'm not going to jump to "the league messed up" or "the league fixed the game" or anything. I just genuinely believe the refs individually made poor decisions. And it happens. They should be held more accountable...and that's the league's biggest problem. It's not that the league is telling refs to do this (I don't believe in that conspiracy), it's that refs don't get reprimanded. They should at the very least be reviewed more intensely. I think post game pressers for refs would be great too (though, I hate to bring more attention to refereeing than there already is). But it's not always "the league's fault". The refs blew it, and I don't think it's anything bigger than that.

"Fall back"? I don't get that...

ManRam
05-29-2012, 01:20 PM
Tim Donaghy was on WEEI this morning and gave what I think is pretty honest and level headed insight on the meetingc that occur between higher and refs before a big series.

I think it is at minimum food for thought for everyone interested in this discussion.

I'll admit that I'm pretty ignorant to Donaghy's stories...and maybe I shouldn't give the league the benefit of the doubt that I do (I tend to do that in nature). So maybe my viewpoint is skewed no less than the people who cry bloody murder every time a bad call is made...

tcav701
05-29-2012, 01:23 PM
I'll admit that I'm pretty ignorant to Donaghy's stories...and maybe I shouldn't give the league the benefit of the doubt that I do (I tend to do that in nature). So maybe my viewpoint is skewed no less than the people who cry bloody murder every time a bad call is made...

But if you heard his interview this morning, its not an animated rant or Tim claiming that Stern flat out tells ref to fix games.

He honeslty and directly answers questions asked by radio hosts without hesitation and without badmouthing anyone.

He even speaks to different officials and their style of officiating. It is a pretty good and short interview on the subject and it sounds like the testimony of an honest man telling it how it is.

I bet you would be happy you heard it.

Heater4life
05-29-2012, 01:29 PM
What about when James was credited with a block on Rondo when it was clear that his elbow made contact with Rondo's head? Or any of the other plays where there was either a non-call or call against James/the Heat where LeBron complained (no less intensely than Allen or Doc) and was not called for a technical?? In my mind, after calling those techs, there is absolutely no justification for why one wouldn't be called on LeBron.

P.S. I don't think either of those techs can be justified and would prefer neither those or any on James would be called in the first place.

What about it? Did you see the replay?

If Lebron James fingers touch the ball prior to his elbow hitting Rondo then it is a block and not a foul. Even in slow motion its difficult to tell which strikes first, its a 50-50 call.

I hardly think this defines preferential treatment.

tredigs
05-29-2012, 01:30 PM
True. My point is that it's ALWAYS "Stern's fault" or it's always "rigging"...it's never just the refs messing up. I can't prove that there isn't fixing or anything, but I'd like to think most of the time it is just honest mistakes.

There's three of them watching 10 guys, most of whom are freakishly athletic. The speed of the game is crazy. To expect these guys to get every call right, especially calls that we only determine were wrong because we saw replay, better angles and slow motion, is just wrong. And it seems the majority of people here don't get that and that they just jump right into their conspiracy talk and rigging narratives.


The technicals are different to an extent. But still, those can be adrenaline induced. I think they handled at least 2 of those wrong (then again, do we know exactly what was said?), but I'm not going to jump to "the league messed up" or "the league fixed the game" or anything. I just genuinely believe the refs individually made poor decisions. And it happens. They should be held more accountable...and that's the league's biggest problem. It's not that the league is telling refs to do this (I don't believe in that conspiracy), it's that refs don't get reprimanded. They should at the very least be reviewed more intensely. I think post game pressers for refs would be great too (though, I hate to bring more attention to refereeing than there already is). But it's not always "the league's fault". The refs blew it, and I don't think it's anything bigger than that.

"Fall back"? I don't get that...

"Fall back" meaning they need to step back and let the players dictate the game rather than the refs (vicariously through the league office), which he thinks is what happened last night.

On an ancillary note, I also think there's an adrenaline induced instant-reaction phenomena that people have in watching a game, ESPECIALLY if they have a vested interest in it (be it simply being a fan of the team, having money on the line, or anything else. It's always possible that's the case here, even with commentators. And I'm sure they'll use their stage to blow up a story if they believe they were wronged). And of course Stephen A. Smith himself is a guy who is paid millions to be a highly reactionary sensationalist, so it's more likely for him to sound off in general.

I personally think the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and I honestly do not believe the NBA would take an active role in rigging a game for one squad at this juncture. The opportunity cost of the BILLIONS they would lose in contrast to the millions they would gain is just not smart business. That said, we see business engage in shadiness and corporate corruption every day, so I never turn a blind eye to the potential for corporate greed and outright stupidity by those at the top.


I'll admit that I'm pretty ignorant to Donaghy's stories...and maybe I shouldn't give the league the benefit of the doubt that I do (I tend to do that in nature). So maybe my viewpoint is skewed no less than the people who cry bloody murder every time a bad call is made...

I battle the same issue simply because it's not how I'd operate and can't relate to the rationale there (and don't WANT it to be the case), but corruption is always possible. It's a very real issue in all walks of business. Not all are honest, though I'd argue most are.

Meaze_Gibson
05-29-2012, 01:34 PM
I agree that the officiating leaguewide is inconsistent. I don't believe though that the refs plan to help out the heat, thunder, etc just for ratings. I don't expect officiating to be perfect, I expect officiating to be fair. No one does their job perfectly so why do they expect refs too. What if Doc was in his ear before the call that got him a tech? What if Ray Alen was frustrated with his game and said something out of character? People are crying real talk. They will ask why Lebron doesn't get enough foul calls without watching tape to see if fouls really occured. The only game this whole playoff I felt couldve been looked at as biased was game 1 of Knicks. The rest have been fair. Not perfect mind you, but fair.

Il Mago50
05-29-2012, 01:34 PM
First off, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with LeBron and Wade and I'm ashamed at the posters who automatically jumped to to that conclusion. This is about what Stephen A Smith had to say about NBA officiating and was way more closely related to the technicals that the Celtics received. Now I did not get to see the game last night because I had work but after listening to SAS comments about the technicals, specifically the ones Doc and Allen received, I immediately understood where he was coming from. The NBA front office needs to make a stand at officials who blow the whistle too often and for the wrong things.

Example 1: Doc says "come on ed" and gets a tech. One of the most pathetic techs I have ever even heard about. Notice that this has absolutely nothing to do with LeBron James and Dwayne Wade? Funny right.

Example 2: Ray says "no!" and turns away. Another pathetic tech that also has nothing to do with LeBron James and Dwayne Wade.

SO what does that mean? That means that NBA officiating is a problem all AROUND the league.

Why are people continuing to single out LeBron and Wade for something they have no control over?

These guys don't blow the ****ing whistle. The dudes in the stripes blow the whistle and the dudes in the front office have softened the game. It has absolutely nothing to do with the Heat.

In addition, how can people be complaining about preferential treatment for star players? Specifically, how can people be complaining about preferential treatment that LeBron and Wade get? This is getting absolutely absurd. Why don't we just forget about Kobe, AKA the player who transformed the game with his antics on the court when he didn't get a call.. Why don't we talk about Rose and Durant and all the other stars that you could say get "special treatment".

Again, this isn't just LeBron and Wade. So you people need to grow the **** up

Personally, I'm not concentrating on those two at all because they're acting on human nature. If your in kindergarden and you push kids around and don't get in trouble with it, you'll continue to do it. Similarly, if a kid pushes you and doesn't get in trouble, you'll expect it to continue happening. On the other hand, if you get pushed and that kid gets punished, you'll expect the same kind of punishable treatment to any kid that does something similar in the future. It's the same reason that we know that if someone hits us on the street, we expect someone to be punished versus grazing shoulders which is ignored.

When players such as Lebron, Kobe, CP3, Griffin, Wade, etc. get these soft calls and they're constantly getting to the free throw line or the players they're being guarded by have to lighten up defensively because of foul trouble, making their job of scoring and winning a game easier, of course they're going to preach to the refs every time contact happens.

The refs established that grazing them and slight contact is a foul and they're taking advantage of that. It's not their fault, it's the refs because they control what is and isn't a foul.

The game has become soft because of these guys because they take away from how great guys like Lebron could be in a league with much more contact where he battles for every basket. A dunk here and there is entertaining but after a while, I would rather see those tough, in your face jumpers or battles to the basket that lead to a tough bucket because to me, that screams "holy ****, that was a tough f**king basket, unreal".

To me, unguarded drives to the bucket have just become boring, it lacks competitiveness because you can't throw hard fouls or defend like one would like to.

As for the techs, you're taking the emotion out of the game, it's ridiculous, as simple as that. Referees should be held accountable by the players that they control the outcomes for and making a bad call should be allowed to be voiced by said players. Imagine that your professor in university was teaching you the wrong information and if you called him/her out to correct, they'd boot you out of the classroom. They control your education yet you wouldn't be able to fix their mistakes.

We are not robots. We get upset, critical, happy, mad, sad, etc. You should be able to voice and show those emotions. You can't even look at a guy after a dunk today without being T'd up.

Get your **** together NBA.

JasonJohnHorn
05-29-2012, 01:50 PM
Look, its obvious at this point the NBA bureaucratic establishment has overstepped its boundaries. Casual fans of the sport are being lost because of the inability of officials to call a fair and unbiased game. "Preferential star treatment" is something that has been acknowledged for a long time now and is absolutely ridiculous. In what sport besides professional basketball are certain players or teams treated differently than others? If you are a fan of the Miami Heat: congratulations - you have yourself an extremely talented team. But do you not see that LeBron James and Dwyane Wade are treated as if they are agents of the Commissioners office to build the popularity of league and its greatest players? As a fan of basketball, I have absolutely no problem acknowledging that these are two of the leagues greatest players. However, by treating them as such by calling weak fouls against their defenders and failing to call any fouls on similar plays on the other end you are developing an environment where young elite players will enter the league expecting and subsequently receiving this star treatment that takes away from their overall potential. What happened to the days of tough, hardnosed basketball players who develop their reputations based off of superior performances in big games? Instead, we're forced to watch the NBA's best individual talents coast their way through big games because of their reputation. We can use tonight as an example. What did Ray Allen or Doc Rivers do tonight that LeBron James does not do on every (italics) single (italics) call (italics) made against him? Yes, players can disagree with calls of officials. Yes, they can do it an a respectful manner. Yes, believe it or not, this is a very emotional game. Why does LeBron James not recieve a technical foul when he argues every single call (perhaps he doesn't use any curse words, but absolutely "shows up" the referees via his body language)? I believe the NBA would be doing itself a great service if it just leveled the playing field. The great players in this league would become even greater. As a fan of professional basketball, I marvel at the skills these athletes possess. Please David Stern, do not create an environment where LeBron James can jump into a defender standing straight up and somehow find himself at the free throw line. Nobody wants to see that. Let's play tough, disciplined, fundamental basketball and see which team comes out on top. Glad Stephan A. stepped up to the plate on a major network and acknowledged this atrocity. Before you know it, the NBA will be the WWE.

This.

And this isn't anything new. In the late 80's through to the late 90's the Chicago Bulls made up 80% of the league's revenue. That means the other 29 teams made up 20% combined. People were not basketball fans during that era, they were Jordan fans, and if Jordan wasn't playing, then the fans weren't watching. All one need to do it look at the ratings in the 94, 95 and 99 finals to see what I mean. Hand checking, for example, was allowed, but it wasn't allowed against Jordan. Pushing off on your defender was a foul, but not if it was Jordan doing it. Raking a players forarms to get a steal was a foul, unless your name was Jordan. I'm a fan of the game and I had to spend practically ten years watching Jordan get the kind of treatment that James and Wade get, and it was BAD FOR THE GAME!!! Sure, it kept the ratings up, but then the league had to spend several seasons redifining itself after Jordan retired, because so many people stopped watching. Jordan would have been lucky to get three titles throughout his career had the officiating been called fair and square. The would have won in 91, and they would have won in 96. But they got BEAT by the Knicks more than once. they got beat by the Pacers, they got beat by the Jazz, but the officials wouldnt let these guys play. Then they started calling the game for Shaq/Kobe and it was just as bad for the game. Since that time though the officiating has been a lot better, save the first Dallas/Miami match-up (the number of free-throws they gave Wade in that series was inhuman, not to mention how badly the officials beat up on Detroit in the conference finals that year).

Now there is a trend going back to calling for the stars. We all know that the Heat would have won that first round series against the Knicks, but seriously, the officials wouldnt even let the Knicks get into the game! And don't even get me started on the Pacers series. This isn't a "Heat Hate" thing, this is coming for somebody who is a fan of the game. This blatantly bias officiating is horrible. I remember in the 96 finals Jordan got called for a foul and he yelled "What?!" at the official and walked right up to him and started jawing. No tech. In the second half Payton yells "What?!" after he gets called for a bogus foul and he gets T'd up for it. There wasn't any consistency then, and we are starting to trend back that, and it is bad for the game. There are 30 teams in this league, and each team is trying to put a champion together, but if they have to play under a different set of rules than teams like Miami, it just isn't fair.

It's bad for the game. And if the officials and league started calling flagarant fouls and techs on people, the Indy would have won the last series because Wade would have been suspended and ejected for that shoulder check he pulled on Collison, but no, Wade is allowed to act like a thug on the floor and literally push Rip Hamilton to the ground adn check Collison to the ground, and he will not even be ejected, while if a player like Metta World-Peace pulled that $#!T he'd be suspended for 5 games.

SMH!

Dade County
05-29-2012, 02:00 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap:

In terms of the techs, watch how much Kobe, Lebron, Wade and CP3 ***** at a ref each and every game without being given a tech. You literally need to threaten a ref's life, tell him that "I f*cked yo b**ch" or throw your carefully placed anti balding headband at them.

Thank you for joining the fight. I've literally watched the Lakers series and nothing else this postseason. There are teams besides my Raptors, such as Chicago and San Antonio, that I can watch because they play hard, defend, are tough and play as a team, not individuals. Besides them, I have been totally turned off from this league and here's why...

There is no parody in this league anymore.

I encourage people to watch a round of the hockey playoffs please. The sport is literally won as a team and lost as a team. No single superstar can win the title nor an entire game on his own, as simple as that. As well, any team that gets into the playoffs has an equal shot to get hot and that can turn into a playoff run that could win them the cup. Look at who has won the cup in the last ten years...Carolina Hurricanes...Tampa Bay Lightning...Anaheim Ducks...one of the Devils or Kings this season...simply put, anything can happen. You need to play every game hard or you could cost yourselves the series.

And then we look at the NBA today. In every season, we have at most 4-5 teams that are true contenders to actually win the championship. Every other team in the league basically doesn't have a prayer of actually winning it and is kidding themselves if they think otherwise. As well, like it was beautifully mentioned in the quote, at times I don't even consider the NBA to be a man's sport anymore. The NBA sold it's soul for money and popularity. What was so wrong about those Knicks-Pacers playoff series' when you would literally get the **** kicked out of you driving to the lane because the other team was protecting it's basket? What was so wrong about the handchecking rule that allowed the defensive player to actually keep some contact on you when defending?

Pau Gasol's helpless screams of agony every time an opponent's breathe touches him perfectly describes what's happened in this league. Instead of being a man playing a contact sport, all you see now is guys like Kobe and Lebron *****ing that a foul wasn't called when a defender touches him on his non-shooting hand after the follow through. In the early 2000's, other then Sacramento and a handful of teams, no one averaged anywhere near 100 PPG. Last season, 20+ teams in the league averaged more then that and some teams in today's NBA get up to 110 PPG...

The unequal treatment of players is killing the league. Either call the same pinky finger foul for Matt Bonner shooting a three and White Mamba pulling up as you would for Kobe and Lebron or give the same true foul calls that you give the lesser players, it's one or the other. All that the referees do is further rift teams with marketable superstars from teams without it. If you really want a league like that, then contract the league to 10-12 teams so that every team has one superstar who gets those flaky calls.

I understand that after the Malace, the league wanted to clean up it's image. Unfortunately, I didn't know that it would mean completely taking the competition out of the league. What is the point of making the playoffs for 12-13 teams such as the Atlanta's, Sixers, Clippers, Nuggets, etc. if they know they have no chance to win the ship? What's the point of watching these games as fans knowing that your team has no chance to win it? That they are a ticking clock waiting to reach zero when an OKC or Miami sweep you? As a fan, you pray that you somehow end up with one of these players in the draft because otherwise, you're not ever going to sniff the Bill Russell Trophy. A single star or two should not be enough to propel a team to the championship, as simple as that. If those two stars are getting hit driving to the bucket, hard nosed defended each and every possession, and made to earn every point by grinding and draining themselves in the process, a lack of a supporting cast should mean that team does not win.

Unfortunately, that's not the case. Imagine for a minute what would happen to Lebron if he drove down the lane every possession against Anthony Mason and Charles Oakley and the Knicks in the 90's. You're hitting the deck. Imagine what Andre Igoudala with the hand checking rule gone could do the Lebron defensively. Kryptonite. Instead, if you now give someone even a half decent shot to discourage going back to the basket, you're thrown out of the game. If you knock them down, you get a flagrant foul. You use your forearm and you're called for a foul. And in turn, those superstars are getting to the line 10-15 times a game without so much as a scratch on them instead of being bruised and beaten.

In today's NBA, a loss for the Heat or other super teams does not matter because they know that sooner or later, the reffing and manner in which this game is played today will allow them to win a series.

What's the point of watching a league like this? I might as well read the synopsis of Coach Carter and then watch it on DVD knowing what's going to happen.

I get what you are saying, but this has been going on since the lake show lakers ( yes it has gotten worst ). Have you forgotten about MJ, and how much times he went to the line?

Did you feel this way when the lakers went to 4 straight championships?

I mean it seems like some of you posters think this all started with the HEAT ( I am not saying that you feel this way Il Mago50 ).

They do need to change how the players can play (D), but if you knock a player to the floor you will get a Flagrant Foul, thats not going to change. But maybe they can bring my hand checking, but whatever.... It's the owners league and this is what they want.

And fans are bias, players A gets hit in the arm, ref calls a foul, player B is like come on man, player B fans are like this league is soft, player B gets the same foul called for him, player B fans don't say a damn word.

ManRam
05-29-2012, 02:19 PM
I battle the same issue simply because it's not how I'd operate and can't relate to the rationale there (and don't WANT it to be the case), but corruption is always possible. It's a very real issue in all walks of business. Not all are honest, though I'd argue most are.

Yeah. I definitely give the benefit of the doubt too much. Oh well. I do firmly believe, and it's not because of my nature, that there isn't a grand and intricate scheme that exists to fix games and determine outcomes. Again, I might be wrong...but even if I am, at least I don't obsess over it and at least I have the ability to just watch the game and not worry about refs.

It seems in GTs that the majority of PSD watches the refereeing more closely than the actual game...and I would hate if that ever became the case for me. I don't worry about the refs...I just worry about basketball. I understand that bad calls happen, and they happen a lot. I also get that 98 times out of 100 they'll even out. And even when they don't, I'm perfectly able to just chalk it off as an anomly and move on. I probably say "they're human" to myself or others a couple times a game...because they are. We all sit here watching games on our 50 inch TVs, in HD, watching multiple replays in slow motion and from different angles and then BLAST the refs when we figure out they blew it. I mean, Anthony's shot last night before the half. No one could have possibly known definitively whether or not he had made it in time...but after some of us so the replay we cried bloody murder. That's just ridiculous to me.

Maybe I'm just living in a naive little world oblivious to reality because I don't think there is any bigger picture to refereeing. I'd like to see refs held more accountable in the public, and I'd like to know that there is a more rigorous referee review and continual improvement programs...but I don't every bad call is the result of a trickle down from Stern on down.




With that said, I'd love to see the refs just let them play. I don't think Stern should be in the business of saying "hey, let them play". I think that needs to be a consistent thing. You can't jump in and dictate refereeing now. It's gotta be a pre-season, season-long approach.

Refs are fickle from game to game. Hopefully they swallow the whistle a bit more the next time...but I'm not gonna get irrate about it.

Dade County
05-29-2012, 02:36 PM
This.

And this isn't anything new. In the late 80's through to the late 90's the Chicago Bulls made up 80% of the league's revenue. That means the other 29 teams made up 20% combined. People were not basketball fans during that era, they were Jordan fans, and if Jordan wasn't playing, then the fans weren't watching. All one need to do it look at the ratings in the 94, 95 and 99 finals to see what I mean. Hand checking, for example, was allowed, but it wasn't allowed against Jordan. Pushing off on your defender was a foul, but not if it was Jordan doing it. Raking a players forarms to get a steal was a foul, unless your name was Jordan. I'm a fan of the game and I had to spend practically ten years watching Jordan get the kind of treatment that James and Wade get, and it was BAD FOR THE GAME!!! Sure, it kept the ratings up, but then the league had to spend several seasons redifining itself after Jordan retired, because so many people stopped watching. Jordan would have been lucky to get three titles throughout his career had the officiating been called fair and square. The would have won in 91, and they would have won in 96. But they got BEAT by the Knicks more than once. they got beat by the Pacers, they got beat by the Jazz, but the officials wouldnt let these guys play. Then they started calling the game for Shaq/Kobe and it was just as bad for the game. Since that time though the officiating has been a lot better, save the first Dallas/Miami match-up (the number of free-throws they gave Wade in that series was inhuman, not to mention how badly the officials beat up on Detroit in the conference finals that year).

Now there is a trend going back to calling for the stars. We all know that the Heat would have won that first round series against the Knicks, but seriously, the officials wouldnt even let the Knicks get into the game! And don't even get me started on the Pacers series. This isn't a "Heat Hate" thing, this is coming for somebody who is a fan of the game. This blatantly bias officiating is horrible. I remember in the 96 finals Jordan got called for a foul and he yelled "What?!" at the official and walked right up to him and started jawing. No tech. In the second half Payton yells "What?!" after he gets called for a bogus foul and he gets T'd up for it. There wasn't any consistency then, and we are starting to trend back that, and it is bad for the game. There are 30 teams in this league, and each team is trying to put a champion together, but if they have to play under a different set of rules than teams like Miami, it just isn't fair.

It's bad for the game. And if the officials and league started calling flagarant fouls and techs on people, the Indy would have won the last series because Wade would have been suspended and ejected for that shoulder check he pulled on Collison, but no, Wade is allowed to act like a thug on the floor and literally push Rip Hamilton to the ground adn check Collison to the ground, and he will not even be ejected, while if a player like Metta World-Peace pulled that $#!T he'd be suspended for 5 games.

SMH!

Very good post... but did you write this same post when Lbj was playing with the cav's? You say this isn't really about the HEAT and some of your post show that, but then you end every major point about the HEAT players.

They should have did something about this when the lakers went to four straight finals, but i guess their are more people online NOW, so everyone targets the HEAT.

I see no one targeting OKC, they are getting calls now, and they will get more calls in the future, because they are the western conference future.

Lbj gets fouled, Wade gets fouled, but you want them to change the rules, because both of them are on the same team is too mush for the refs and un-bias fans to take. To many trips to the line for one team, I agree; but thats one of are strengths.... The league should have never started this super star treatment in the 1st place then; now we the HEAT fans have to deal with this ******** on a daly basses... HEAT this and HEAT that.... We didn't start this ****, we just had a GM that had the foresight to put these players together.

Now all we get is hate all around the country, when actually the league and the refs should get all the hate... We the HEAT fans did not create this system, but we are the constant target of everyone...smh

Blame the refs and the league and Jordan, and bulls fans lol about the bulls fans :D

natelpete
05-29-2012, 02:43 PM
Look, its obvious at this point the NBA bureaucratic establishment has overstepped its boundaries. Casual fans of the sport are being lost because of the inability of officials to call a fair and unbiased game. "Preferential star treatment" is something that has been acknowledged for a long time now and is absolutely ridiculous. In what sport besides professional basketball are certain players or teams treated differently than others? If you are a fan of the Miami Heat: congratulations - you have yourself an extremely talented team. But do you not see that LeBron James and Dwyane Wade are treated as if they are agents of the Commissioners office to build the popularity of league and its greatest players? As a fan of basketball, I have absolutely no problem acknowledging that these are two of the leagues greatest players. However, by treating them as such by calling weak fouls against their defenders and failing to call any fouls on similar plays on the other end you are developing an environment where young elite players will enter the league expecting and subsequently receiving this star treatment that takes away from their overall potential. What happened to the days of tough, hardnosed basketball players who develop their reputations based off of superior performances in big games? Instead, we're forced to watch the NBA's best individual talents coast their way through big games because of their reputation. We can use tonight as an example. What did Ray Allen or Doc Rivers do tonight that LeBron James does not do on every (italics) single (italics) call (italics) made against him? Yes, players can disagree with calls of officials. Yes, they can do it an a respectful manner. Yes, believe it or not, this is a very emotional game. Why does LeBron James not recieve a technical foul when he argues every single call (perhaps he doesn't use any curse words, but absolutely "shows up" the referees via his body language)? I believe the NBA would be doing itself a great service if it just leveled the playing field. The great players in this league would become even greater. As a fan of professional basketball, I marvel at the skills these athletes possess. Please David Stern, do not create an environment where LeBron James can jump into a defender standing straight up and somehow find himself at the free throw line. Nobody wants to see that. Let's play tough, disciplined, fundamental basketball and see which team comes out on top. Glad Stephan A. stepped up to the plate on a major network and acknowledged this atrocity. Before you know it, the NBA will be the WWE.

Yes, there is "preferential star treatment", but you fail to mention that LBJ and DWade are not the only two players in the NBA who receive it. Add about another 25 names to that list and you got it.

Vee-Rex
05-29-2012, 02:57 PM
I don't understand why Heat fans are being so overly defensive. Multiple people in this thread have clearly stated that it isn't the Heat players' faults, yet I keep seeing post after post, "Stop blaming the Heat! It started before! It's not LBJ or Wade's fault! There is no preferential treatment! You ARE saying it's about the Heat! I love Lebron and Wade so much! I've been a Heat fan since July 2010!"

Please, stop.

Arian Foster is right. Each NFL game has roughly 7 referees. The football field is many times bigger than the basketball court, yet why is the NBA officiating so so so so much worse? 22 players on the football field yet their games are officiated 20x better than a game with a much smaller playing area and 12 less players. 3 referees should be more than enough to call an NBA game good. Something is wrong here.

Why are we seeing the same thing in the playoffs? Why does it seem like the playoffs is officiated much worse than the regular season? Why are league officials meeting with referees before every big series? Why the silly technical calls that mirror some of the horrible calls in game 1 of the 2011 semi-finals matchup between the Heat and Celtics?

The NBA officiating is HORRENDOUS (and has been for years). Absolutely horrendous. It's not about a few mistakes here and there. It's not about the Heat. And it's not about missing certain calls. Referees have repeatedly (time and time and time again x1000000) made some incredibly stupid calls in the playoffs for years and it has become sickening to watch sometimes.

Not that the Celtics would've won (they're gonna lose with or w/o the terrible officiating), but seeing referees jump 10 feet forward to point their fingers in the Heat direction when the Celtics get a turnover in an attempt to get a huge roar from the crowd is downright terrible. Stephen A. Smith was right, the NBA needs to fall back and let these players play more.

YoungOne
05-29-2012, 03:00 PM
refs have been horrible all season, I saw many goaltending calls simply wrong that I could see from the tv camera angle, 24 second shotclock violation should be called if the other teams havent gotten posession, sometimes they call it sometimes not.
and I'm not starting with the traveling, thats another dimension of horrible calls.

tredigs
05-29-2012, 03:10 PM
Armchair referees are also kind of funny to me. I would LOVE to see most of you ref-bashers to spend some time learning to ref and trying your craft out on say... 11 year olds. The bashing you'd receive on a daily basis (and confusion over whether or not to blow a whistle) would completely alter your mindstate on the matter. Times that speed/pressure twenty fold and add in millions of angry fanatics with the advantage of slow motion multi-angle instant replay and you'd start to get it.

Not an easy sport to ref. At all. They are by and large insanely good at what they do. They are as much pros as the athletes themselves in a lot of regards. That's not an easy league to crack into.

Texact
05-29-2012, 03:18 PM
This WHOLE season the refs been given Lebron and wade calls that should have gone the other way. Every series in the playoffs with the heat has been the same thing ( Technical on melo for passing the ball to a ref ) NBA must be protecting their investments...but its better den watching baseball

Vee-Rex
05-29-2012, 03:20 PM
Armchair referees are also kind of funny to me. I would LOVE to see most of you ref-bashers to spend some time learning to ref and trying your craft out on say... 11 year olds. The bashing you'd receive on a daily basis (and confusion over whether or not to blow a whistle) would completely alter your mindstate on the matter. Times that speed/pressure twenty fold and add in millions of angry fanatics with the advantage of slow motion multi-angle instant replay and you'd start to get it.

Not an easy sport to ref. At all. They are by and large insanely good at what they do. They are as much pros as the athletes themselves in a lot of regards. That's not an easy league to crack into.

You do realize how much they get paid, right? Do you also realize that the NFL is also a fast sport and that their referees do muuuuuuuuuuch better than the NBA? There's nothing pro about a lot of the calls they make. Sometimes the announcers themselves are completely bewildered by the calls they make.

When does Chris Collinsworth or any of the other NFL announcers are constantly saying, "That was such a terrible terrible call. Are they watching the same game as us?"?

Sure, throw me out there and I'll do worse, but then I haven't been through 'referee school' nor have I been referee'ing for 20 years.

I like how people try to compare you with the people you are complaining about. So what if I can't referee? Do I have to become the president of the USA to know when a president is doing a terrible job? No. Do I have to know how to fix cars to know when a mechanic is doing a terrible job? No. It's a pretty narrow argument, my friend. :)

Anyway, doesn't matter how insanely tough it is nor how Billy the Referee has 80 years of experience, an all-pro hall of fame best referee there ever was, when he repeatedly makes silly calls he sucks.

metsbulls1025
05-29-2012, 03:27 PM
so then why are we have this discussion this morning...

if you agree this game was officiated well then why is this even a discussion at this point?

I hate people like SAS that will grab at anything to rile people up and get views...even when he is completely of base (Skip Bayless is another one)

The entire SAS video is about the technical fouls being called and how they were unnecessary. He never said a word about regular fouls. Then he went a step further and said it effects a team for the rest of the game when the refs get quick trigger fingers with calling technical fouls.

He also pretty much was implying the league was doing some shady things without actually saying it.

YoungOne
05-29-2012, 03:27 PM
Armchair referees are also kind of funny to me. I would LOVE to see most of you ref-bashers to spend some time learning to ref and trying your craft out on say... 11 year olds. The bashing you'd receive on a daily basis (and confusion over whether or not to blow a whistle) would completely alter your mindstate on the matter. Times that speed/pressure twenty fold and add in millions of angry fanatics with the advantage of slow motion multi-angle instant replay and you'd start to get it.

Not an easy sport to ref. At all. They are by and large insanely good at what they do. They are as much pros as the athletes themselves in a lot of regards. That's not an easy league to crack into.

too blind to see the reality?

tredigs
05-29-2012, 03:33 PM
You do realize how much they get paid, right? Do you also realize that the NFL is also a fast sport and that their referees do muuuuuuuuuuch better than the NBA? There's nothing pro about a lot of the calls they make. Sometimes the announcers themselves are completely bewildered by the calls they make.

When does Chris Collinsworth or any of the other NFL announcers are constantly saying, "That was such a terrible terrible call. Are they watching the same game as us?"?

Sure, throw me out there and I'll do worse, but then I haven't been through 'referee school' nor have I been referee'ing for 20 years.

I like how people try to compare you with the people you are complaining about. So what if I can't referee? Do I have to become the president of the USA to know when a president is doing a terrible job? No. Do I have to know how to fix cars to know when a mechanic is doing a terrible job? No. It's a pretty narrow argument, my friend. :)

Anyway, doesn't matter how insanely tough it is nor how Billy the Referee has 80 years of experience, an all-pro hall of fame best referee there ever was, when he repeatedly makes silly calls he sucks.

I knew this would be the response, and the fact of the matter is that you're still not contextualizing how ridiculous subjective so many of the calls in the NBA are and why ten fans can see the exact same play and have 5 different judgements on how it should have been called (see: every comment following every whistle in every game thread in PSD history).

Football PALES in comparison to the NBA from a referee perspective for a number of reasons. #1 it's played in 3-10 second bursts rather than potentially uninterrupted action, #2 there are far more of them and they each have a specific location of the field to monitor as their duty for the play/game. It allows them to focus much easier than would be possible with the dynamic of how basketball's played. The reasons go on, but those two on their own make it much, much easier to official. And still they miss calls on every single NFL play. And yes, people complain.

Are NBA refs perfect. ****ing far from it. But I do know for a fact that they are not given enough credit for how ridiculously impossible it is to ref a perfect game.

metsbulls1025
05-29-2012, 03:36 PM
I knew this would be the response, and the fact of the matter is that you're still not contextualizing how ridiculous subjective so many of the calls in the NBA are and why ten fans can see the exact same play and have 5 different judgements on how it should have been called (see: every comment following every whistle in every game thread in PSD history).

Football PALES in comparison to the NBA from a referee perspective for a number of reasons. #1 it's played in 3-10 second bursts rather than potentially uninterrupted action, #2 there are far more of them and they each have a specific location of the field to monitor as their duty for the play/game. It allows them to focus much easier than would be possible with the dynamic of how basketball's played. The reasons go on, but those two on their own make it much, much easier to official. And still they miss calls on every single NFL play. And yes, people complain.

Are NBA refs perfect. ****ing far from it. But I do know for a fact that they are not given enough credit for how ridiculously impossible it is to ref a perfect game.

If it is so hard to ref this sport maybe half the referees should be a little younger.

NBAFan2012
05-29-2012, 03:37 PM
Ok so this is the problem. All season (this stuff is highlighted in the playoffs because of the importance of every single call) the refs have been horrible. It begins with something as simple as Lane Violations. There is a lane violation committed on 99% of free throws, why do they only call it once in a blue moon? Or what about those stretches where they call like 3 lane violations in a row? (it happens a couple times a season)... the thing is that Refs are horrible and normally tend to favor the home team and it is toooo blatant. People are blaming Lebron and Wade because of the Calls and non calls but every home team gets these calls. EVERY TEAM. How is this the players fault?

As for Wade and Lebron James and the Heat, well...judging by what I have seen it is not the number of calls, the number of free throws, or the lack of calls , IT IS WHEN THESE THINGS HAPPEN. With The Heat it seems that the refs are always Momentum starters for them, or Momentum killers for the other team. This is why I think people that dislike the Heat complain, because of WHEN THESE NON CALLS and Calls are made. These blown calls or non calls directly influence the game because of when they happen. Notice next time you watch a Heat game.

Every team against the Heat has to overcome that one stretch where the refs give them call after call, after call and ignore every call on the other end for the opposing team, this is a crucial stretch in every game and teams hardly over come it. Do you guys remember that stretch against The Knicks where the Heat got layup after layup and and 1s when on the other end the Knicks got 3 consecutive Charging calls on them? When some of them obviously were blocking? These are the stretches teams nead to be afraid of against the Heat. It is like the Refs are influenced and caught in the moment in the game and they just call everything the Heats way and miss everything for the other team. Again, these stretches can be momentum killers for the oppositing team, but usually end up being Momentum starters for The Heat. Momentum started based solely off Refs calling bogus fouls on both ends of the floor in favor of the Heat. This is why this becomes a problem, no one recognizes this and ever brings it up, I think I am the first to do so...but NOTICE next game.

NBAFan2012
05-29-2012, 03:39 PM
The most infuriating thing about all this (and everyone should direct their disdain towards the NBA not the Heat) is that ok its fine that a team has homecourt, but for once I would like for games to be called down the line whether a team be at home or on the road...that way a fan does not have to say to themselves "Wow i cant wait to get home to get those same calls!!" Why not just do it right so we dont have to resort to that?

Vee-Rex
05-29-2012, 03:43 PM
I knew this would be the response, and the fact of the matter is that you're still not contextualizing how ridiculous subjective so many of the calls in the NBA are and why ten fans can see the exact same play and have 5 different judgements on how it should have been called (see: every comment following every whistle in every game thread in PSD history).

Football PALES in comparison to the NBA from a referee perspective for a number of reasons. #1 it's played in 3-10 second bursts rather than potentially uninterrupted action, #2 there are far more of them and they each have a specific location of the field to monitor as their duty for the play/game. It allows them to focus much easier than would be possible with the dynamic of how basketball's played. The reasons go on, but those two on their own make it much, much easier to official. And still they miss calls on every single NFL play. And yes, people complain.

Are NBA refs perfect. ****ing far from it. But I do know for a fact that they are not given enough credit for how ridiculously impossible it is to ref a perfect game.

Fans complain about everything in every sport, don't let that cloud your judgment. We are talking about blatant, inexcusable, indefensible, outrageous calls that are made *consistently* during these big games. NFL referees are not nearly as bad. Yes, they've made mistakes (big ones too, no one is saying they are perfect), but the amount of these huge 'errors' are not as ridiculous as the ones the NBA refs make.

Put the whole picture together. Not only are there terrible calls, but unjustifiable techs made that really make you wonder what's going on. Fans get the sense that games are being slightly directed and that is what the uproar is about. You can defend NBA refs all you want but facts are facts, and when you get players of other sports twittering on how bad NBA refs are, when you have serious accusations that could very well be true from an ex referee, you have to consider the possibility that something is off.

In the very least, why hasn't it been addressed? Why hasn't the league at least attempted to do away with some of these terrible refs?

NBAFan2012 has a valid point: The NBA is a game of momentum. Even if statistically both teams get the same amount of fouls, it's about WHEN it happens. At least in game 1 the Heat went on momentum runs off poor calls that were pretty devastating.

With that said (and for all overly defensive Heat fans), the Celtics are not a better team and will not win regardless of how fair the officiating can get. It just sucks to see the way it goes sometimes.

metsbulls1025
05-29-2012, 03:43 PM
I also don't see how anyone can say they don't get the credit they deserve. The problem isn't so much calling a blocking foul or a charge.

1. The problem is when they blatantly decide what players should or shouldn't get flagrant fouls and how they review said fouls. Like certain players who should get a flagrant 2 and the call reviewed only get a flagrant 1 and get to stay in the game while the play gets no review.

2. Letting certain players complain all game long, but then will get a quick trigger on a guy just jumping, yelling no, and walking away.

3. Allowing certain players to not get touched, scream and throw their arms in the air, and then call a foul

These things mentioned above are all things that are inexcusable to **** up. Situation 1 and 2 can be stopped and situation 3 are on plays that are 1 on 1 match ups while the game is not in motion. Yet we see these referees show favoritism and that is not OK.

Forty6and2
05-29-2012, 03:54 PM
Let me start by saying David Stern is a joke of a commisioner...there I said ...end of story 1.

It seems the special treatment of the star players by officials has gotten grossly worse over the yrs. I believe It started with MJ because Stern new he had the new FACE and everybody wanted to see him. Cant blame him for that, MJ was electric and the league blew up and everyone got PAID for it. League was on fire Bulls win 6 titles in 8 yrs--but they were a GOOD team as well.

Then the league starts to go stale--oops Spurs win the title, just what Stern wants(ha,ha,ha) Shaq then goes to LA and Kobe arrives. Stern starts to salivate because he sees Jordan 2.0 in Kobe. Controversial but electric and IN L.A.---thats the sound of money you hear. So here we go again but it seems it was taken to a different level by the officials. Great three yr run by LA ends with Shaq/Kobe fued...oops Spurs win 3 out of the next 5 titles..just what Stern wants (see above)...Stern needs help now

Remember Tim Donaghey..:) UH OH Stern.

Oh wait here come the BIG 3 in Beantown...Stern likey..."Hey this might by me some time here..storied franchise might win again lets play this out"
Celtics win one and Its with the Lakers..time to reminisce, ahh the good ol days. Who really likes the C's( I do ) league wide anyway? Lets go back to the best player on the planet..Kobe anyone!

DUH DUH DUH...here comes the KING to southbeach..Stern is doing cartwheels. Here is my new face of the NBA...and here we sit today.

I kind of lost my train of thought but Stern is the problem here...wants his league to be the best...again...at whatever cost( officiating). So I believe he has impact on games and officiating and will do what he can to garnish a profit...I hate Stern and I hate the NBA..who cares who wins...Philly/Memphis final, not on Sterns watch..lol....So I will end with...LETS GO SPURS

Fnom11
05-29-2012, 03:56 PM
did u seriously just respond to that without reading it? typical heat fan- premature. premature answers, premature responses, premature celebrations.

Typical troll, trolling, trolling, and trolling.

MagicHero3
05-29-2012, 04:19 PM
Typical troll, trolling, trolling, and trolling.

lol says the guy who ignored the other 4-5 ppl who quoted him and said the same exact thing.

justinnum1
05-29-2012, 07:04 PM
Psd needs to be rename prc

Pro ref complaining

smiddy012
05-29-2012, 07:10 PM
Anybody who compares today's Star treatment to what MJ had should be castrated. MJ had a career FTA/FGA of 0.358, which is miles below what today's stars get let alone what Barkley, Malone, & Robinson got...

JohnnyOutcast
05-29-2012, 07:41 PM
Personal fouls last night:

Celtics- 19
Heat- 21

Your eyes are not fooling you people. There were more fouls called on the Heat last night than the Celtics, but after reading some comments in this thread one would think the refs are bias and are fixing the NBA in order to help the Heat win the title for some reason. The real bias entity in this situation is the viewer who believes that their team is somehow being cheated when the facts clearly don't support this point of view. Their bias also prohibits them from seeing the obvious reason the Celtics lost was because of their poor offensive play (39% shooting, 3 quarters where they fail to score 20 points). Instead they come up with outlandish allegations that are not based in any facts rather than blame their own team for their shortcomings. I feel there is no point in arguing with people like this because it is inevitable that they will blame Stern/Refs whenever their team loses.

metsbulls1025
05-29-2012, 08:30 PM
Does anyone think a big problem is the age of a lot of these refs in the game? I mean as you get older your vision, thinking ability, and the ability to handle all that movement at once gets worse. When you see 50 and 60 year old's running around trying to ref a game it makes you wonder if they are still qualified to do their job.

KnickNyKnick
05-29-2012, 08:40 PM
WTF is this thread about????

lol i asked myself that. i think its about poor officiating but flopping aswell. see heat vs knicks game 1 foul line stats

KnickNyKnick
05-29-2012, 08:41 PM
Does anyone think a big problem is the age of a lot of these refs in the game? I mean as you get older your vision, thinking ability, and the ability to handle all that movement at once gets worse. When you see 50 and 60 year old's running around trying to ref a game it makes you wonder if they are still qualified to do their job.

yeh i wish former nba players became refs instead of bad broadcasters

Cfrey
05-30-2012, 01:05 AM
Personal fouls last night:

Celtics- 19
Heat- 21

Your eyes are not fooling you people. There were more fouls called on the Heat last night than the Celtics, but after reading some comments in this thread one would think the refs are bias and are fixing the NBA in order to help the Heat win the title for some reason. The real bias entity in this situation is the viewer who believes that their team is somehow being cheated when the facts clearly don't support this point of view. Their bias also prohibits them from seeing the obvious reason the Celtics lost was because of their poor offensive play (39% shooting, 3 quarters where they fail to score 20 points). Instead they come up with outlandish allegations that are not based in any facts rather than blame their own team for their shortcomings. I feel there is no point in arguing with people like this because it is inevitable that they will blame Stern/Refs whenever their team loses.

nailed it

latinofire21
05-30-2012, 03:28 AM
Didn't read any of this but Wade and Lebron didn't get any superstar call this game. The only questionable calls by the refs were the techs which have nothing to do with Wade and Lebron. However, the only legit tech was the Rondo one when he pushed Battier.

Put the homer goggles away. Lebron and Wade can be over aggressive on the defensive end because the refs eat the whistle all game with them. The foul calls havent been even the whole playoffs.

Refs think they are being fair but they arent. When Lebron has nothing to worry about with foul trouble hes at his best. It shouldnt be two sets of rules out there.

I for one dont like the touch fouls at all so if your going to officiate the game like that for the Heat you need to do the same for the Celtics. Lebron and Wade need to get bodied to the basket too with no calls if they are going to do that to Rondo and Pierce and whoever else may attempt to drive and get bodied to the hoop.

Its a travesty that that goon Joel Anthony never gets fouled out. For every good block he has he has another 3 that slap arm or body. That man should be fouled out at halftime every game this season. He gets away with murder because hes on the Heat.

latinofire21
05-30-2012, 03:31 AM
Personal fouls last night:

Celtics- 19
Heat- 21

Your eyes are not fooling you people. There were more fouls called on the Heat last night than the Celtics, but after reading some comments in this thread one would think the refs are bias and are fixing the NBA in order to help the Heat win the title for some reason. The real bias entity in this situation is the viewer who believes that their team is somehow being cheated when the facts clearly don't support this point of view. Their bias also prohibits them from seeing the obvious reason the Celtics lost was because of their poor offensive play (39% shooting, 3 quarters where they fail to score 20 points). Instead they come up with outlandish allegations that are not based in any facts rather than blame their own team for their shortcomings. I feel there is no point in arguing with people like this because it is inevitable that they will blame Stern/Refs whenever their team loses.

Please give me a break with that. Miami has been over aggressive on the defensive end all season. They get away with it because the refs let them. Heat had 2 more fouls for the game then the Celtics whoopty freaking doo. Its the fouls that matter that everyone is complaining about. Ghost fouls on Ray Allen but Lebron and Wade dont ever get put in foul trouble. Ironic isnt it? The refs want to keep them on the floor to showcase the talent for tv.

Super.
05-30-2012, 03:34 AM
Can we stop pretending that this is about LeBron and Wade? They haven't begun to reach th elevel of "superstar calls" that Kobe lived off of.

:laugh:

You are in complete denial mode right now, and it's ****ing hilarious

sharqstealth
05-30-2012, 04:05 AM
2 words. GAME FIXING!

CoffeeJanitor
05-30-2012, 09:51 AM
Look, its obvious at this point the NBA bureaucratic establishment has overstepped its boundaries. Casual fans of the sport are being lost because of the inability of officials to call a fair and unbiased game. "Preferential star treatment" is something that has been acknowledged for a long time now and is absolutely ridiculous. In what sport besides professional basketball are certain players or teams treated differently than others? If you are a fan of the Miami Heat: congratulations - you have yourself an extremely talented team. But do you not see that LeBron James and Dwyane Wade are treated as if they are agents of the Commissioners office to build the popularity of league and its greatest players? As a fan of basketball, I have absolutely no problem acknowledging that these are two of the leagues greatest players. However, by treating them as such by calling weak fouls against their defenders and failing to call any fouls on similar plays on the other end you are developing an environment where young elite players will enter the league expecting and subsequently receiving this star treatment that takes away from their overall potential. What happened to the days of tough, hardnosed basketball players who develop their reputations based off of superior performances in big games? Instead, we're forced to watch the NBA's best individual talents coast their way through big games because of their reputation. We can use tonight as an example. What did Ray Allen or Doc Rivers do tonight that LeBron James does not do on every (italics) single (italics) call (italics) made against him? Yes, players can disagree with calls of officials. Yes, they can do it an a respectful manner. Yes, believe it or not, this is a very emotional game. Why does LeBron James not recieve a technical foul when he argues every single call (perhaps he doesn't use any curse words, but absolutely "shows up" the referees via his body language)? I believe the NBA would be doing itself a great service if it just leveled the playing field. The great players in this league would become even greater. As a fan of professional basketball, I marvel at the skills these athletes possess. Please David Stern, do not create an environment where LeBron James can jump into a defender standing straight up and somehow find himself at the free throw line. Nobody wants to see that. Let's play tough, disciplined, fundamental basketball and see which team comes out on top. Glad Stephan A. stepped up to the plate on a major network and acknowledged this atrocity. Before you know it, the NBA will be the WWE.Give this man a medal.