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the_lazy_man
05-26-2012, 10:00 PM
Well I think we all remember when Good Ol Gibbons challenged Hillenbrand to a fight? LOL. Maybe we need Romero and Farrell to clash. Or we could move Farrell to pitching coach and get a real bench boss who knows how to play the game?

Spiderdan22
05-26-2012, 10:16 PM
Stoopid thread

rapsjaysfan88
05-26-2012, 11:21 PM
Bipolar jays fans, only a 100 games left

mtf
05-26-2012, 11:48 PM
To be perfectly honest, nothing has really changed from the pre-season predictions. Frasor is still garbage, Lind still can't hit, Thames can't catch and his bat isn't good enough to justify being an every day player.

They're still where most people expected them to be; around -2 to +6 games over/under the .500 range. They've currently lost 4 in a row, and not for the first time.

To be reasonable, there are some positives to take away. The starting pitching, (aside from the most recent time through the rotation) has been decent. The hitting is coming around for some players and the team as a whole is still very much in the mix around the wild card positions.

Management, by sitting on it's hands in the off-season, has indicated it's waiting for 2014-2016 because there's no one else of significance coming through the system anytime soon, other than D'Arnaud. Maybe Gose, although apparently he still has much developing to do. So whatever, now we wait for Syndergaard, Nicolino, Norris, and Sanchez and enjoy a few more years in and around "500".

Toxeryll
05-26-2012, 11:51 PM
we dont really have a shot this year unless we make some big trades

aman_13
05-27-2012, 12:50 AM
To be perfectly honest, nothing has really changed from the pre-season predictions. Frasor is still garbage, Lind still can't hit, Thames can't catch and his bat isn't good enough to justify being an every day player.

They're still where most people expected them to be; around -2 to +6 games over/under the .500 range. They've currently lost 4 in a row, and not for the first time.

To be reasonable, there are some positives to take away. The starting pitching, (aside from the most recent time through the rotation) has been decent. The hitting is coming around for some players and the team as a whole is still very much in the mix around the wild card positions.

Management, by sitting on it's hands in the off-season, has indicated it's waiting for 2014-2016 because there's no one else of significance coming through the system anytime soon, other than D'Arnaud. Maybe Gose, although apparently he still has much developing to do. So whatever, now we wait for Syndergaard, Nicolino, Norris, and Sanchez and enjoy a few more years in and around "500".

Now it's 2014? The team will be ready when they are ready. I think we should all stop projecting when the team will be a serious contender. Baseball is the only sport i know where prospects are so highly valued. More valued then any other major sport in my opinion. Some of you guys are literally putting all hope on these prospects when most of them might not even play to their potential.

mtf
05-27-2012, 02:16 AM
Baseball is the only sport i know where prospects are so highly valued. More valued then any other major sport in my opinion.

Well yeah... the NBA and NFL don't have minor league affiliates, and the NHL has all top prospects pretty much on the pro team if there are any good anyways

They Blue Jays won't sign free agents, so all we have to look forward to are prospects which are pretty hit or miss.

scaramantula
05-27-2012, 02:45 AM
Now it's 2014? The team will be ready when they are ready. I think we should all stop projecting when the team will be a serious contender. Baseball is the only sport i know where prospects are so highly valued. More valued then any other major sport in my opinion. Some of you guys are literally putting all hope on these prospects when most of them might not even play to their potential.

yeah lets all stop predicting when the Jays are finally gonna pull it all together, i mean we probs wont compete for 20 more years

ThunderZubb
05-27-2012, 03:04 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/24898/resilient-jays-can-bounce-back

Toronto certainly had some hype coming into the season. With the two-time defending home-run king, Jose Bautista, to build around, things up north were only getting better. Add in a full season of emerging superstar Brett Lawrie, who looked like a legitimate All-Star during his brief time in the majors last year, and there seemed to be no reason why the Blue Jays couldn’t find themselves playing October baseball, especially once Bud Selig announced the addition of a second wild-card team in each league.


Read more......

Everyone needs to relax because we are only 1 and half games out of the wild card so just chill

Toronto sits only 1 1/2 games out of a playoff spot with a 24-23 record.

Sanyo
05-27-2012, 04:34 AM
Agree 1 1/2 games is hardly sinking and we're almost in June now -- this is above expectations of where I thought the Jays would be so I am happy. It hurts when your team loses an extra inning game with a 2 run lead but its apart of the game -- let's see where the Jays are in late June, July and August before we declare this a sinking ship.

mtf
05-27-2012, 04:43 AM
Agree 1 1/2 games is hardly sinking and we're almost in June now -- this is above expectations of where I thought the Jays would be so I am happy. It hurts when your team loses an extra inning game with a 2 run lead but its apart of the game -- let's see where the Jays are in late June, July and August before we declare this a sinking ship.

Although I personally think the club is improving, except the starting pitching as of late, and I would definitely not say "the ship is sinking", the whole "it's still early" argument is no longer a viable excuse or counter-argument. We've passed through the first quarter of the season, and into the second.

Although standings can and will change, teams below the Jays are starting to pick up steam as well including both the Red Sox and the Angels, and the White Sox are now ahead of the Blue Jays as well.

I personally think the most recent mini losing streak has more to do with the schedule than it does the Blue Jays, I'd still like to see them playing better than they are. I want to see a true contender, and I think they're close to becoming that. I want to see significant additions.

Sanyo
05-27-2012, 04:47 AM
Although I personally think the club is improving, except the starting pitching as of late, and I would definitely not say "the ship is sinking", the whole "it's still early" argument is no longer a viable excuse or counter-argument. We've passed through the first quarter of the season, and into the second.

Although standings can and will change, teams below the Jays are starting to pick up steam as well including both the Red Sox and the Angels, and the White Sox are now ahead of the Blue Jays as well.

I personally think the most recent mini losing streak has more to do with the schedule than it does the Blue Jays, I'd still like to see them playing better than they are. I want to see a true contender, and I think they're close to becoming that. I want to see significant additions.

The problem with significant additions is that yes it is too early -- as you just pointed out other teams below are now picking steam and there are not going to be any sellers yet. Late June/Early July is when you start the rumblings. The Jays will have to work with what they got and see where this team goes to July and that's where they can decide to be buyers or sellers.

mtf
05-27-2012, 04:59 AM
The problem with significant additions is that yes it is too early -- as you just pointed out other teams below are now picking steam and there are not going to be any sellers yet. Late June/Early July is when you start the rumblings. The Jays will have to work with what they got and see where this team goes to July and that's where they can decide to be buyers or sellers.

Yeah, I don't expect to see significant mid-season acquisitions. They missed the boat by taking a pass on participating on this most recent off-season.

Valleyfella
05-27-2012, 07:26 AM
The mantra among Jays fans is that they need a big bat or a proven starting pitcher but those haven't been the problem. They're just off the league leaders in run production and until a day or two ago had the best ERA among starting staffs in the American League. The problem is blown saves. Cut the number of those in half and they're up there with Tampa and just behind Baltimore.

wamco
05-27-2012, 09:19 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/24898/resilient-jays-can-bounce-back

Toronto certainly had some hype coming into the season. With the two-time defending home-run king, Jose Bautista, to build around, things up north were only getting better. Add in a full season of emerging superstar Brett Lawrie, who looked like a legitimate All-Star during his brief time in the majors last year, and there seemed to be no reason why the Blue Jays couldn’t find themselves playing October baseball, especially once Bud Selig announced the addition of a second wild-card team in each league.


Read more......

Everyone needs to relax because we are only 1 and half games out of the wild card so just chill

Toronto sits only 1 1/2 games out of a playoff spot with a 24-23 record.

-And a half game out of last place in the division

JaysFan87
05-27-2012, 09:35 AM
[/B]

-And a half game out of last place in the division

that should tell you how close everything is, and why it is too early to be looking at standings.

Krylian
05-27-2012, 10:50 AM
Zzzzzz.....

Wake me up when this thread is gone.

wamco
05-27-2012, 10:52 AM
it's all about how many teams you need to leapfrog to be in the playoffs, not how many games out you are.

craigerlee
05-27-2012, 12:44 PM
it's all about how many teams you need to leapfrog to be in the playoffs, not how many games out you are.

This must be sarcasm right? Cause pretty sure most teams would rather leap frog 3 teams that they're only 2 games back of then, leap frog one team they're 5 back of.

wagnall
05-27-2012, 01:31 PM
After the next homestand against the O's and Red Sox we will have gone over a 1/3 of the way, if changes are coming they could come soon after. AA has always said he does not like to wait for deadlines and that he likes to get in their early.

There will be teams ready to look past 2012 to 2013 ready to deal. We are still close, not like we are 10 games back already.

FLeays
05-27-2012, 02:43 PM
Well I think we all remember when Good Ol Gibbons challenged Hillenbrand to a fight? LOL. Maybe we need Romero and Farrell to clash. Or we could move Farrell to pitching coach and get a real bench boss who knows how to play the game?

I think the Jays are just playing for their paychecks. :)

the_lazy_man
05-27-2012, 03:56 PM
Based on todays game so far, i think thats all they playing for.

purplehaze89
05-27-2012, 03:57 PM
This team is mediocre to the max. Blame cheap *** Rogers for not going all out when the division is weakened. Blame Anthopolous for sitting on his laurels.

Spiderdan22
05-27-2012, 04:39 PM
This team is mediocre to the max. Blame cheap *** Rogers for not going all out when the division is weakened. Blame Anthopolous for sitting on his laurels.

Yes...let's harp on AA who didn't make a move for a big free agent this past off-season. How well is Puljos working out in LA? Did you notice the boatload of prospects given up for Latos and Gonzulez? We should be praising AA for not giving in to the pressure to make a deal or signing just for the sake of it. AA will give up prospects if it makes sense to, which means no deals for rental players and no 200 million dollar contracts for players whose bodies will be giving out sooner than later.

wamco
05-27-2012, 04:59 PM
ya, Gio is a great example....

alistar
05-27-2012, 05:00 PM
Yes...let's harp on AA who didn't make a move for a big free agent this past off-season. How well is Puljos working out in LA? Did you notice the boatload of prospects given up for Latos and Gonzulez? We should be praising AA for not giving in to the pressure to make a deal or signing just for the sake of it. AA will give up prospects if it makes sense to, which means no deals for rental players and no 200 million dollar contracts for players whose bodies will be giving out sooner than later.

And hows Gio Gonzalez doing these days?

Rochesta
05-27-2012, 05:22 PM
What ship, it was a kayak at most

Thames, Lind, Rasmus = three starting hitters who were as likely to be sub-mendoza line as they were to contribute

Rotation with an average age of what, 23? Average MLB experience of like a year?

This team was never going to compete, and the front office had to know this.

Rochesta
05-27-2012, 05:27 PM
Yes...let's harp on AA who didn't make a move for a big free agent this past off-season. How well is Puljos working out in LA? Did you notice the boatload of prospects given up for Latos and Gonzulez? We should be praising AA for not giving in to the pressure to make a deal or signing just for the sake of it. AA will give up prospects if it makes sense to, which means no deals for rental players and no 200 million dollar contracts for players whose bodies will be giving out sooner than later.

Some of the moves were inappropriate, but you have to take risks to profit. My biggest issue was them not going after Prince at all. I would have understood if he didn't want to play for the Jays. But to not even try, when he was a perfect fit in our lineup at a position of need, indicated to me that this franchise is a permanent joke and that they're ok with that. All they talk about is how they can spend, and then when they had a good opportunity to spend in an appropriate way, they didn't try. It's BS.

mtf
05-27-2012, 05:51 PM
Yes...let's harp on AA who didn't make a move for a big free agent this past off-season. How well is Puljos working out in LA? Did you notice the boatload of prospects given up for Latos and Gonzulez?

The players of note who Alex Anthopoulos did not even put in a legitimate offer for were Yu Darvish and Prince Fielder. Must just be a coincidence that you decided to neglect to mention their names as the "busts".


We should be praising AA for not giving in to the pressure to make a deal or signing just for the sake of it.

Why should we be praising Anthopoulos, he has accomplished nothing. I will admit that he's laid the foundation for a competitive team, but he has sat on his hands and failed to act when he could mold that foundation into a legitimate contender. He gets far too much praise around here. He deserves more scrutiny, and please note that I am not being fanatical and saying he should be fired, I'm being practical and saying you should reserve your praise for when he actually brings a playoff game or two to Toronto.


AA will give up prospects if it makes sense to, which means no deals for rental players and no 200 million dollar contracts for players whose bodies will be giving out sooner than later.

Who is asking for him to give up prospects for rental players? Most rational critics are saying the time to act was this past off-season. As for your comment about $200,000,000 players, which player will have done enough in their career to warrant that type of contract and still be young enough (oh let's say around 27 with no history of injuries) to produce for the next 7+ years? Instead of going after him, they let their fears get in the way and just called him a big fatty who wasn't worth the risk.

rapsjaysfan88
05-27-2012, 05:52 PM
Some of the moves were inappropriate, but you have to take risks to profit. My biggest issue was them not going after Prince at all. I would have understood if he didn't want to play for the Jays. But to not even try, when he was a perfect fit in our lineup at a position of need, indicated to me that this franchise is a permanent joke and that they're ok with that. All they talk about is how they can spend, and then when they had a good opportunity to spend in an appropriate way, they didn't try. It's BS.

signing a 300 pounder to a 10 yr contract was such a good idea :clap:

purplehaze89
05-27-2012, 06:17 PM
The players of note who Alex Anthopoulos did not even put in a legitimate offer for were Yu Darvish and Prince Fielder. Must just be a coincidence that you decided to neglect to mention their names as the "busts".



Why should we be praising Anthopoulos, he has accomplished nothing. I will admit that he's laid the foundation for a competitive team, but he has sat on his hands and failed to act when he could mold that foundation into a legitimate contender. He gets far too much praise around here. He deserves more scrutiny, and please note that I am not being fanatical and saying he should be fired, I'm being practical and saying you should reserve your praise for when he actually brings a playoff game or two to Toronto.



Who is asking for him to give up prospects for rental players? Most rational critics are saying the time to act was this past off-season. As for your comment about $200,000,000 players, which player will have done enough in their career to warrant that type of contract and still be young enough (oh let's say around 27 with no history of injuries) to produce for the next 7+ years? Instead of going after him, they let their fears get in the way and just called him a big fatty who wasn't worth the risk.

+1. Thanks for answering for me.

Meanwhile AA will just spend hours of his life negotiating for retreads like Manny Ramirez and Vladimir Guerrero.

Way to go.

JaysFan87
05-27-2012, 07:18 PM
For what its worth ken rosenthal and keith law both said that it was not there time to invest into FA this year and that they shoudl continue to do what they have been doing the last 2 years.

wamco
05-27-2012, 07:36 PM
and your boy JP Riccardi said "keith law is an idiot"

JaysFan87
05-27-2012, 07:38 PM
and your boy JP Riccardi said "keith law is an idiot"

my boy? i see where you're going with this and i want no part. Clearly you have your opinion set. Thats fine.

Krylian
05-27-2012, 07:40 PM
I'm so glad that Jays aren't run by some of you peons.

idrinkpepsi
05-27-2012, 07:42 PM
I'm so glad that Jays aren't run by some of you peons.:clap:

wamco
05-27-2012, 07:59 PM
my boy? i see where you're going with this and i want no part. Clearly you have your opinion set. Thats fine.

Yes your boy. You defended and made excuses for him until final days. has nothing to do with having "my opinion set"

JaysFan87
05-27-2012, 08:10 PM
Yes your boy. You defended and made excuses for him until final days. has nothing to do with having "my opinion set"

I didnt make excuses for him or anyone I was being a realist as he was being unfairly labelled. He did produce good major league players from the draft and produced quality teams between 2006-2008 that were not good enough to beat out the yankees and redsoxs. Obviously he ultimately failed in the ultimate goal but he was no where near as bad as people make him out to be. But again i think you have your mind set which is fine by me, no skin of my back.

Apparently being rational and logical is something that is forbidden around here? But again this is not a conversation about JP or the teams he constructed. THis thread was bound to lead to problems and it didnt take too long.

MVP1
05-27-2012, 08:27 PM
I would love to see some people here run the team. It seems they know more than the people who have been around baseball for years.

wamco
05-27-2012, 08:44 PM
welcome to sports messageboards

wamco
05-27-2012, 08:46 PM
[QUOTE=JaysFan87;22324594]I didnt make excuses for him or anyone I was being a realist


I've heard it all now. Laughable. WillRain sponge and regergitator claiming objectiveness regarding JPR. Oh well.

JaysFan87
05-27-2012, 09:20 PM
[QUOTE=JaysFan87;22324594]I didnt make excuses for him or anyone I was being a realist


I've heard it all now. Laughable. WillRain sponge and regergitator claiming objectiveness regarding JPR. Oh well.

??? Like i said you seem to have your mind made up.

He had failures but i get the sense there is no point in having a conversation.

mtf
05-27-2012, 09:31 PM
I would love to see some people here run the team. It seems they know more than the people who have been around baseball for years.

It's as if you're saying that consumers shouldn't have opinions about the product.

Those who throw blind support at the team, and I must emphasize blind, seem to be of the opinion that the team can do no wrong, and therefore anyone who disagree's is just a trouble maker and they must be called out because they're simply up to no good.

It's perfectly reasonable for people to discuss both the positive and negative aspects of the team that they spend their time and money to support. In fact, it's in the best interest of that team for those fans to do so. Nothing is worse for an organization like this than apathy from their customer base.

killersweet
05-27-2012, 10:51 PM
It's as if you're saying that consumers shouldn't have opinions about the product.

Those who throw blind support at the team, and I must emphasize blind, seem to be of the opinion that the team can do no wrong, and therefore anyone who disagree's is just a trouble maker and they must be called out because they're simply up to no good.

It's perfectly reasonable for people to discuss both the positive and negative aspects of the team that they spend their time and money to support. In fact, it's in the best interest of that team for those fans to do so. Nothing is worse for an organization like this than apathy from their customer base.

U make too much sense. Get out of here:-)
Don't u know that if u r a true fan, u r not suppose to question the management, cuz they are all experts and they know what they are doing:rolleyes:

Eagles4Lyfe
05-27-2012, 11:13 PM
Yes...let's harp on AA who didn't make a move for a big free agent this past off-season. How well is Puljos working out in LA? Did you notice the boatload of prospects given up for Latos and Gonzulez? We should be praising AA for not giving in to the pressure to make a deal or signing just for the sake of it. AA will give up prospects if it makes sense to, which means no deals for rental players and no 200 million dollar contracts for players whose bodies will be giving out sooner than later.

N explain to me how are the 3 prospects or so called young guys backing the rotation from 3-5 are doing right now??
How's our over hyped prospect from last year who everyone thought was god doing?? Hows Thames??

Point im trying to make is if you see an established player who is still fairly young and is available and it takes a couple prospects so be it because were learning first hand not only can we not develop our pitchers properly cause we rush them and because their never a for sure thing.

We have a more than amazing farm and we have a whole lot of depth there and not to mention were going to add more significant depth to that with 2 firsts this year, we are more than able to give up some prospects.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-27-2012, 11:19 PM
For what its worth ken rosenthal and keith law both said that it was not there time to invest into FA this year and that they shoudl continue to do what they have been doing the last 2 years.

Did those same guys predict the Orioles to be leading the division because if i recall I remember a lot of people saying Orioles will need a couple years before competing and there ahead of us.

It's a joke what's going on with this team, if ANYONE thinks right now that if we added one of Fielder or Darvish we would still be in this predicament then someones getting paid some money by rogers under the table cause thats laughable.

The funny part is BEFORE the season started the whole offseason AA was suggesting us needing a LF and possibly trying KJ there so he even freaken knew Thames in LF would be stupid but what can you do right???

Krylian
05-27-2012, 11:24 PM
The team is on pace for 81 wins. Pretty sure most people that know anything predicted this team would be somewhere in the mid-80's for wins. Yet people are ready to jump off bridges cause things are so bad.

MVP1
05-27-2012, 11:27 PM
It's as if you're saying that consumers shouldn't have opinions about the product.

Those who throw blind support at the team, and I must emphasize blind, seem to be of the opinion that the team can do no wrong, and therefore anyone who disagree's is just a trouble maker and they must be called out because they're simply up to no good.

It's perfectly reasonable for people to discuss both the positive and negative aspects of the team that they spend their time and money to support. In fact, it's in the best interest of that team for those fans to do so. Nothing is worse for an organization like this than apathy from their customer base.

I do realize the holes on this team but we still have plenty of time left in the season. Some fans emotions can get the best of them whenever we are a tough stretch.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-27-2012, 11:27 PM
We haven't even hit the hardest part of the schedule yet we've had a fairly easy ride and were only at .500 I wonder how it'll turn out with this same roster when we have the Yankees to play like a dozen more times same with the red sox etc..
So yes it is reasonable as fans to panic right now its not like were panicking after 10 games its been close to 50 games now a third of the season practically gone.

mtf
05-27-2012, 11:44 PM
I do realize the holes on this team but we still have plenty of time left in the season. Some fans emotions can get the best of them whenever we are a tough stretch.

Some of the holes that you acknowledge were called out as far back as September of 2011 (and earlier) when many fans recognized the issues with this team. Hell, even Alex Anthopoulos publicly acknowledged them as well. Those issues, to recap, were a middle of the line-up bat (clean-up hitter), a mid-to-top of the rotation starter to add much needed depth, and the bullpen was in shambles.

To Anthopoulos' credit, he managed to address the bullpen. However, in keeping with fairness, he did not address either of the other two aforementioned issues. Right now, the Blue Jays are relying on Drew Hutchison to be their fifth starter. Although he is improving, he is their last resort. If the team decides to send Kyle Drabek down, who gets the call? Brett Cecil? That's an unsettling idea. The line-up also has under-performed for most of the first quarter of this season and adding a big bat, preferably at first base, could very likely have made this a high caliber offense.

Just as it's fair for you to applaud this team, it is also fair for others to criticize, regardless of all 162 games having not yet expired.

JaysFan87
05-28-2012, 12:02 AM
Did those same guys predict the Orioles to be leading the division because if i recall I remember a lot of people saying Orioles will need a couple years before competing and there ahead of us.


They are still going to finish last. Last year it was the indians who who going strong into late may and then collapsed. The year before it was the blue jays. **** happens and is an even bigger indication of how its useless to be looking at standings in May.


It's a joke what's going on with this team, if ANYONE thinks right now that if we added one of Fielder or Darvish we would still be in this predicament then someones getting paid some money by rogers under the table cause thats laughable.

The funny part is BEFORE the season started the whole offseason AA was suggesting us needing a LF and possibly trying KJ there so he even freaken knew Thames in LF would be stupid but what can you do right???


If you want to talk about rogers talk about rogers in the many many threads made about rogers.

nithanyo
05-28-2012, 01:34 AM
our starting pitching is what needs a lot of work.

Romero is no ace and walks a ton of people. Morrow is a roller coaster. Alvarez has trouble keeping pitches down. Drabek is a head case who can't throw strikes. Hutchison is a soft tossing rookie.

Recipie for disaster? I think so

Rogi10
05-28-2012, 01:54 AM
our starting pitching is what needs a lot of work.

Romero is no ace and walks a ton of people. Morrow is a roller coaster. Alvarez has trouble keeping pitches down. Drabek is a head case who can't throw strikes. Hutchison is a soft tossing rookie.

Recipie for disaster? I think so

chicken little?

GNick
05-28-2012, 04:36 AM
Well I think we all remember when Good Ol Gibbons challenged Hillenbrand to a fight? LOL. Maybe we need Romero and Farrell to clash. Or we could move Farrell to pitching coach and get a real bench boss who knows how to play the game?

Reality starts to sit in when playing good teams....5 straight losses with a couple of blow outs.

The team is not close, need power bat at first, front of rotation starter and another corner outfielder. Henderson should be sent down allowed to mature more in Double A. Bring up an innings eater.

But we all knew back in 2009 when we traded the Halladays and Rolens it was going to be 2014 before we contend for playoff spot. It was said 2012 if everything went well. But odds of that happening was slim. It all hasn't gone well. Lost our closer, wheels fell off Lind, Lawrie took a step backwards, Rasmus isn't hitting like we thought.

Toxeryll
05-28-2012, 04:57 AM
if theyre gonna send down anyone, it should be drabek, not alvarez

Nica
05-28-2012, 07:33 AM
Jays fans- at least many of the ones that post on this board- don't deal with the ups and downs of their team very well. The high points and win streaks are clearly evidence that the Jays are contenders and that AA is a genius while the losing streaks are due to cheap owners or underachieving roster players.
Love the passion and it makes for some fun and interesting reading.

Its hard being a Toronto sports fan. It is a major metro cosmopolitan centre and it constantly trying to shed its cold almost " exile" image for non- Canadian professional athletes. Not sure how to get over that hump. Thought the early 80's WS wins or the Vinsanity years would have broken that stereo type but clearly the Toronto image has regressed.

A new ownership group that are sports fans might help.
The Leafs Achilles Heel is well documented- profit despite not re-investing in the product. The Raps are saddled by a myriad of issues including incredibly poor management/ drafting, the uphill battle to appealing to FA's and the salary cap loopholes exposed by agents and players( why does LeBron quibble about a million in salary while being on a certain franchise enables him to make 80 + million in off-court revenue).
I'm really curious about the relationship between the Jays franchise and their media exposure. In these days of major tv contracts enabling teams like the Rangers/ Angels to profit and spend like drunken sailors what exactly does Rogers pay to the Jays franchise? Are the Jays merely a tax write off or ( more likely) an attempt to remain self sufficient while promoting/ expanding the Rogers brand ?
I wonder if Mr Balsillie has a better relationship with MLB or David Stern ? Apparently he must have kicked Mr Bettmans dog and laughed at Judge Baum's glasses. Hope he gets involved in some sort of Toronto professional franchise before RIM goes bankrupt.....

The only good thing about this latest down swing is that hopefully I can get some pretty choice seats for the Phillies weekend in a couple of weeks. I'll be the one in the D'Arnaud or Johnny Mac jersey ! I'm pretty sure a lot of you folks will be there regardless of the latest bump cause that's what Toronto fans do !

Converged
05-28-2012, 11:45 AM
Jays fans- at least many of the ones that post on this board- don't deal with the ups and downs of their team very well. The high points and win streaks are clearly evidence that the Jays are contenders and that AA is a genius while the losing streaks are due to cheap owners or underachieving roster players.
Love the passion and it makes for some fun and interesting reading.

Its hard being a Toronto sports fan. It is a major metro cosmopolitan centre and it constantly trying to shed its cold almost " exile" image for non- Canadian professional athletes. Not sure how to get over that hump. Thought the early 80's WS wins or the Vinsanity years would have broken that stereo type but clearly the Toronto image has regressed.

A new ownership group that are sports fans might help.
The Leafs Achilles Heel is well documented- profit despite not re-investing in the product. The Raps are saddled by a myriad of issues including incredibly poor management/ drafting, the uphill battle to appealing to FA's and the salary cap loopholes exposed by agents and players( why does LeBron quibble about a million in salary while being on a certain franchise enables him to make 80 + million in off-court revenue).
I'm really curious about the relationship between the Jays franchise and their media exposure. In these days of major tv contracts enabling teams like the Rangers/ Angels to profit and spend like drunken sailors what exactly does Rogers pay to the Jays franchise? Are the Jays merely a tax write off or ( more likely) an attempt to remain self sufficient while promoting/ expanding the Rogers brand ?
I wonder if Mr Balsillie has a better relationship with MLB or David Stern ? Apparently he must have kicked Mr Bettmans dog and laughed at Judge Baum's glasses. Hope he gets involved in some sort of Toronto professional franchise before RIM goes bankrupt.....

The only good thing about this latest down swing is that hopefully I can get some pretty choice seats for the Phillies weekend in a couple of weeks. I'll be the one in the D'Arnaud or Johnny Mac jersey ! I'm pretty sure a lot of you folks will be there regardless of the latest bump cause that's what Toronto fans do !

Pretty much this. It's odd viewing these boards from week to week. It's almost as if it's a forum for bipolars. The Jays have looked mediocre thus far, but at the end of the day, we are a couple wins out of a wild card spot. No one expected us to take the division this year I don't think. Regardless, looking at the standings in May is futile. I challenge you to look at the standings one and two years ago from today and compare them to how the season finished. As was already mentioned, the Indians were dominating baseball at this time last year.

StayOnBoard
05-28-2012, 12:10 PM
And hows Gio Gonzalez doing these days?

Funny you say that, when 90% of the people here wanted no part of Gio Gonzalez and said "he's a walk machine and not even that good - especially in the AL East where he'd get rocked".

Now that he has a 2.04 ERA and a dominating k rate the guy is a pure stud that we "missed out on".

Ugh....

miller74
05-28-2012, 12:15 PM
Funny you say that, when 90% of the people here wanted no part of Gio Gonzalez and said "he's a walk machine and not even that good - especially in the AL East where he'd get rocked".

Now that he has a 2.04 ERA and a dominating k rate the guy is a pure stud that we "missed out on".

Ugh....

So what hes tearing up the NL east in May, i wouldnt give up noah syndergaard ++ to see if he can pitch in the AL East.

StayOnBoard
05-28-2012, 12:19 PM
What hes tearing up the NL east, i wouldnt give up noah syndergaard ++ to see if he can pitch in the AL East.

To be clear, Im not saying we should have traded for Gio. I just LOVE the double standard here

Poster 1: "ARAGH we need a #2 starter!"
Poster 2: "How about Gio? It'll cost a lot but we could put together a package"
Poster 1: "**** that guy, I want Felix but all of Lawrie/Gose/TDA, etc are all off limits".
Poster 2: "Ummm... then that's gonna be difficult"
Poster 1: "Pff you don't know what you're talking about, probably cost X, Y, Z from the scrap heap".

Fast forward a few months ----

Poster 1: "Muther ****er, the Jays season has been lost!!! If only we traded for Gio - he's a stud and a true #2 starter. How can anyone say we shouldn't have gotten this guy?"

/chirp chirp

Welcome to the forums....

Twitchy
05-28-2012, 12:27 PM
Gio's still the same walk happy guy he was last year. 10.3% vs 10.5% BB rate of last year. The only difference is he's got a crazy low BABIP, a crazy low HR rate, and the best K% in the majors. He might be better than last year, but I wouldn't think he's an elite pitcher going forward. I hate to be a buzzkill on that.

I'd take him on the Jays if my choices were him vs Drabek/Hutch. But that's not really saying much lol.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-28-2012, 12:40 PM
lmao^^

To the guy with the double standards comment, the majority of us mainly wanted Darvish, Fielder and Beltran, atleast one or two of those.

Gio was just more of a luxury.

alistar
05-28-2012, 12:59 PM
Funny you say that, when 90% of the people here wanted no part of Gio Gonzalez and said "he's a walk machine and not even that good - especially in the AL East where he'd get rocked".

Now that he has a 2.04 ERA and a dominating k rate the guy is a pure stud that we "missed out on".

Ugh....

My point was not that the Jays should have gone after Gio Gonzalez. Frankly, I don't think he'd been that great of a fit but that wasn't really my point. My point was if your going to talk about a team for giving up a ton of prospects for a veteran player, at least pick a trade that the team wouldn't do again in a heartbeat.

purplehaze89
05-28-2012, 03:38 PM
The Jays schedule to start the season was soft. Well guess what, they're at .500 now, so imagine what their record is going to look like in 2 months.

This team is mediocre to the max. Too much dead weight. Anyone can see it, except the homers and Rogers Alex (Anthopolous).

Eagles4Lyfe
05-28-2012, 03:41 PM
^^ Well said and its always the same excuse within the fan bases.
Were not ready yet were not ready to spend etc.. That's a total fabrecation that we've been hearing for almost a decade now. There is no excuse and at this point I'm hoping fans stop showing up for the games to teach Rogers a lesson that if you want to run this business get talent on the field and fans will show up like NY and Boston.

rapsjaysfan88
05-28-2012, 03:45 PM
^^ Well said and its always the same excuse within the fan bases.
Were not ready yet were not ready to spend etc.. That's a total fabrecation that we've been hearing for almost a decade now. There is no excuse and at this point I'm hoping fans stop showing up for the games to teach Rogers a lesson that if you want to run this business get talent on the field and fans will show up like NY and Boston.

you want less fans, we have trouble drawing 20k, i wouldnt wish for that either because jays will be out of town with the expos

Eagles4Lyfe
05-28-2012, 04:14 PM
I don't mean like 10 people go but like how the Mariners stadium was when we went there and it was practically empty.
I know it won't happen because its great weather and you'll always have people going but their never going to learn there lesson and were throwing away a perfectly good contending team into the gutter

rapsjaysfan88
05-28-2012, 04:22 PM
I don't mean like 10 people go but like how the Mariners stadium was when we went there and it was practically empty.
I know it won't happen because its great weather and you'll always have people going but their never going to learn there lesson and were throwing away a perfectly good contending team into the gutter

please stay consistent, first u say we are awful and mediocure now we are a contender. losing attendance isnt good, less money for the team, crappy to watch on tv, crappy for attending fans and the players. if we draw 5k i doubt anyone will want to play for us. i dont understand that thought process.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-28-2012, 04:32 PM
I am consistant, we have a contending type team but need the few pieces that'll never be attainable until the ownership is willing to shell out the cash. What was contradictory in that??

Eagles4Lyfe
05-28-2012, 04:33 PM
please stay consistent, first u say we are awful and mediocure now we are a contender. losing attendance isnt good, less money for the team, crappy to watch on tv, crappy for attending fans and the players. if we draw 5k i doubt anyone will want to play for us. i dont understand that thought process.

Hows that any different than the last 10 years???
Explain to me your thought process sir

1hardcore
05-28-2012, 04:40 PM
wtf ??? i havent watched the past couple of games ... and now i hear They designated Iragashi just because he didnt do well in 2 games.. They bring up Beck and Chavez who was great and now Laffey and bring back Beck..... Cooper now in the fold. This team looks like the Las Vegas 51's right now .

urban legend
05-28-2012, 04:44 PM
crazy to think we are closing in on 20 yrs withought making the playoffs

rapsjaysfan88
05-28-2012, 06:24 PM
I am consistant, we have a contending type team but need the few pieces that'll never be attainable until the ownership is willing to shell out the cash. What was contradictory in that??

quit with this ownership garbage. if you want to complain, complain about aa. aa is the one who isnt doing his job. he says the moneys at his disposal. then use it. he didnt sign willingham, or pena or a vet sp. he didnt adress our biggest needs lf, 1b, sp. in 3 years hasnt put together a decent bp and has traded for other teams throw aways. why do you think the team is mediocre, its on the gm not ownership.

PatsPropaganda
05-28-2012, 07:50 PM
We still have tons of time to make a shot for playoffs .. I say we get there this year and get better in the following years and eventually win a W.S.

LuckyLuke2
05-28-2012, 08:25 PM
I don't mean to sound rude but this thread is unnecerasy. The Jays are not a power house team nor are they expected to be. They still have work to do to become better. They are one of the youngest teams in the MLB let alone the AL and they just lost a series to two teams who, for the most part TB wise, are better then they are.

Texas IMO is the best team in the Majors. Stacked at pitching and absolutely incredible hitting team. The Jays getting blown out is not good but it's not the end of the world here. The Jays are a good, young team looking to get better year by year.

With a rotation where the oldest guy is 27-28 years old, I don't expect them to sweep Texas. People and fans have to look at it realistically and that is seeing the Jays as a 500. team, and hopeful to win maybe 5 or 8 games over 500. If they remain tight in a playoff spot which I believe they can, then they will be fine.

No one expected them to go 130-32 here. Ship is sinking my left nut.

LuckyLuke2
05-28-2012, 08:28 PM
crazy to think we are closing in on 20 yrs withought making the playoffs

Actualy it's not crazy at all. The Jays are in a division with two of the most historic winning franchises in the history of sports, with payrolls that double and triple what the Jays have.

So no it's not at all. Not to mention TB who drafted the right way and developed players in their system properly.

The Jays are the best spot they have been in in years IMO.

purplehaze89
05-28-2012, 08:57 PM
We still have tons of time to make a shot for playoffs .. I say we get there this year and get better in the following years and eventually win a W.S.

Really reaching for the fences here. "Eventually win a W.S.". :facepalm:

Also, with the way the Jays are playing right now and with this roster I can almost guarantee you they do NOT make the playoffs.

slazzy16
05-28-2012, 10:35 PM
Still 4 months left in the season, anything can happen. Just saying :D

Nica
05-29-2012, 07:43 AM
Funny you say that, when 90% of the people here wanted no part of Gio Gonzalez and said "he's a walk machine and not even that good - especially in the AL East where he'd get rocked".

Now that he has a 2.04 ERA and a dominating k rate the guy is a pure stud that we "missed out on".

Ugh....

I can say I was part of the 10%. The two starts he had last year against the Jays were among the most entertaining games of last year for me. It was cool to see a good pitcher from a small Western market. I watch a lot of baseball but I will admit I don`t watch many Oakland games. But then again neither do Oakland people.....
That being said the price was pretty prohibitive and I fully expect his stats to come back to earth.
He is a nice pitcher- definitely a top 3 - but the whole era of 2 ish is a little misleading. I`m thinking when its all said and done he helps pitch the Nats to the play offs and posts a 17-9 record and around a 3.70 era and a 1.28 whip.
Which would look really good on just about any staff.

I really don`t think we missed out on anything. I`m not convinced that AA was really committed to doing any sort of deal. He does his due diligence on just about every live body but so far it seems he likes to rattle around in the bargain bin.

StayOnBoard
05-29-2012, 08:14 AM
quit with this ownership garbage. if you want to complain, complain about aa. aa is the one who isnt doing his job. he says the moneys at his disposal. then use it. he didnt sign willingham, or pena or a vet sp. he didnt adress our biggest needs lf, 1b, sp. in 3 years hasnt put together a decent bp and has traded for other teams throw aways. why do you think the team is mediocre, its on the gm not ownership.

Agreed - AA is horrible, we should fire him now before he wrecks this team further.

alistar
05-29-2012, 08:38 AM
Agreed - AA is horrible, we should fire him now before he wrecks this team further.

While we're at it, we should also fire the cleanup crew at the Rogers Centre for leaving the damn floors so sticky.

AA09-?
05-29-2012, 09:33 AM
I can say I was part of the 10%. The two starts he had last year against the Jays were among the most entertaining games of last year for me. It was cool to see a good pitcher from a small Western market. I watch a lot of baseball but I will admit I don`t watch many Oakland games. But then again neither do Oakland people.....
That being said the price was pretty prohibitive and I fully expect his stats to come back to earth.
He is a nice pitcher- definitely a top 3 - but the whole era of 2 ish is a little misleading. I`m thinking when its all said and done he helps pitch the Nats to the play offs and posts a 17-9 record and around a 3.70 era and a 1.28 whip.
Which would look really good on just about any staff.

I really don`t think we missed out on anything. I`m not convinced that AA was really committed to doing any sort of deal. He does his due diligence on just about every live body but so far it seems he likes to rattle around in the bargain bin.

Fair enough, but what makes you think that these numbers would translate over to the AL east??

Eagles4Lyfe
05-29-2012, 12:25 PM
quit with this ownership garbage. if you want to complain, complain about aa. aa is the one who isnt doing his job. he says the moneys at his disposal. then use it. he didnt sign willingham, or pena or a vet sp. he didnt adress our biggest needs lf, 1b, sp. in 3 years hasnt put together a decent bp and has traded for other teams throw aways. why do you think the team is mediocre, its on the gm not ownership.

Ya because AA is the owner of this team right??
From all his interviews on sportsnet on the radio its pretty evident the ownership isn't letting him spend the way he wants because he seemed like he really wanted to be in on Yu but other factors played a part into it.
Thats the reason why AA is so heavily praised because the only way he can make the team better is finding controllable players via trade and he's been exceptional at that. So how the **** can you blame AA more than the ownership group??
AA has made his fair share of mistakes, Cordero signing, JF hiring but wth can the guy do if he's strapped and is only allowed to spend a certain amount. You don't think if he owned Rogers and was our GM at the same time he wouldn't have gotten a Papelbon, Darvish, Beltran and Fielder?? You must have some nice managerial postion higher up in Rogers eh;)

alistar
05-29-2012, 12:28 PM
Ya because AA is the owner of this team right??
From all his interviews on sportsnet on the radio its pretty evident the ownership isn't letting him spend the way he wants because he seemed like he really wanted to be in on Yu but other factors played a part into it.
Thats the reason why AA is so heavily praised because the only way he can make the team better is finding controllable players via trade and he's been exceptional at that. So how the **** can you blame AA more than the ownership group??
AA has made his fair share of mistakes, Cordero signing, JF hiring but wth can the guy do if he's strapped and is only allowed to spend a certain amount. You don't think if he owned Rogers and was our GM at the same time he wouldn't have gotten a Papelbon, Darvish, Beltran and Fielder?? You must have some nice managerial postion higher up in Rogers eh;)

Anthopoulos said himself that the ownership was willing to give him the money to sign guys like Lackey and Bay during that offseason and him and his management team decided no. So blaming it all on the ownership isn't exactly accurate.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-29-2012, 12:31 PM
Anthopoulos said himself that the ownership was willing to give him the money to sign guys like Lackey and Bay during that offseason and him and his management team decided no. So blaming it all on the ownership isn't exactly accurate.

The difference between then and now is we didn't have the depth or weren't in the position where one move would've put us in the playoffs.
But now with 2 WC spots and our 3/4 hitters having a good year and solid pieces around them I don't see how a couple moves this year wouldn't have put us over the top?

StayOnBoard
05-29-2012, 12:51 PM
Anthopoulos said himself that the ownership was willing to give him the money to sign guys like Lackey and Bay during that offseason and him and his management team decided no. So blaming it all on the ownership isn't exactly accurate.

Yes, because signing Lackey and Bay would have been AWESOME! Remind me... what are both of these guys doing right now? I say management got this one right.

I can't even imagine the fan backlash if we signed these two guys. We think the forums are full of **** now? ha! It would be 10x worse (if that's even possible).

alistar
05-29-2012, 12:52 PM
Yes, because signing Lackey and Bay would have been AWESOME! Remind me... what are both of these guys doing right now? I say management got this one right.

I can't even imagine the fan backlash if we signed these two guys. We think the forums are full of **** now? ha! It would be 10x worse (if that's even possible).

That's not my point. My point is money was/is available to be spent. I'm not debating whether they should or shouldn't have signed those guys.

StayOnBoard
05-29-2012, 01:05 PM
That's not my point. My point is money was/is available to be spent. I'm not debating whether they should or shouldn't have signed those guys.

I think he has money to spend but not as much as the media (and fans?) seems to think.

I bet if he wanted, he could push his payroll to about 80-90 million. Im COMPLETELY speculating, but that's my guess... only because the Jays have supported that payroll before in the past. The thing is, most people want a move just for the sake of making a move - or want guys like Fielder/Pujols who will NEVER be fit under the Jays so called "budget".

Could we have targetted a guy like Josh Willingham last offseason?? Sure... absolutely.... too bad when I suggested that in the offseason I was tore apart because we shouldn't be going after "not very good players".

They will not be in on Hamilton or Hamels either but I know there will be 4+ months of talk about it and about 20+ different threads all saying how we should go all-in for those players. This just isn't how the Jays are going to build their teams (and hey, I'd love to be wrong... imagine Hamilton on the Jays? Yes please).... but I can almost guarantee that won't be the case.

Eagles4Lyfe
05-29-2012, 01:27 PM
^^ Agreed but yet fans always hold out hopes that were going to sign some first class FA somehow. People should temper their FA expectations after what took place last offseason because I sure as hell have.

Rochesta
06-01-2012, 02:19 PM
IDK if I really blame our ownership group TBH. I think I mostly blame the MLB for not being a fair league. Without a salary cap and spending floor it's pretty pointless to watch.

NFL has it so right at the moment. Not only is there a salary cap, but teams now have to spend something like 97% of the cap, too. It's such a better product. A team's crappiness is all on them, as money is not a factor in performance. Therefore I don't feel cheated as a Bills fan.

If you're a Jays, Pirates, Royals, Athletics, etc. fan, there's no point in following this league. It's like they want to sit you in front of a Yankees fan for a poker game, but they're going to give him an extra card each hand. Sure, you might sneak a win by him once in a while, but he's going to win most of them just by the simple math of it all. The Yankees fan would of course blame our ownership, saying that it could spend as much as the Yankees if it wanted to (which is total bs given the fundamentals of corporate law, but I digress). But from my fan's chair, I really don't give a ****. The fact is that they don't spend nearly as much, and as a result, are only competitive once every 30 years. Some of it is incompetence but most of it is pure math.

If I'm a fan, why am I watching that? Judging by WS ratings, most potential fans are thinking the same thing.

So I'll stick with NFL and NLL, which I seriously suggest you Toronto fans give a try next season. I'm sure that following the Rock would be significantly less painful for you. Heck, last year while you guys were probably on here ranking Jays prospects the Rock were on a successful title run.

Toxeryll
06-01-2012, 02:59 PM
**** the Rock.

wagnall
06-01-2012, 03:36 PM
Is the Rock coming to town, can you sssssmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllllllllllll lwhat the rock is cooking.

wamco
06-01-2012, 06:32 PM
IDK if I really blame our ownership group TBH. I think I mostly blame the MLB for not being a fair league. Without a salary cap and spending floor it's pretty pointless to watch.

NFL has it so right at the moment. Not only is there a salary cap, but teams now have to spend something like 97% of the cap, too. It's such a better product. A team's crappiness is all on them, as money is not a factor in performance. Therefore I don't feel cheated as a Bills fan.

If you're a Jays, Pirates, Royals, Athletics, etc. fan, there's no point in following this league. It's like they want to sit you in front of a Yankees fan for a poker game, but they're going to give him an extra card each hand. Sure, you might sneak a win by him once in a while, but he's going to win most of them just by the simple math of it all. The Yankees fan would of course blame our ownership, saying that it could spend as much as the Yankees if it wanted to (which is total bs given the fundamentals of corporate law, but I digress). But from my fan's chair, I really don't give a ****. The fact is that they don't spend nearly as much, and as a result, are only competitive once every 30 years. Some of it is incompetence but most of it is pure math.

If I'm a fan, why am I watching that? Judging by WS ratings, most potential fans are thinking the same thing.

So I'll stick with NFL and NLL, which I seriously suggest you Toronto fans give a try next season. I'm sure that following the Rock would be significantly less painful for you. Heck, last year while you guys were probably on here ranking Jays prospects the Rock were on a successful title run.

true but the ownership group knew exactly what they were getting into