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View Full Version : Maximizing Bynum cost the Lakers (why get rid of the triangle?)



Chronz
05-22-2012, 07:09 AM
Yeah I said it, the golden child isnt ready to take the reign, so someone tell me WHY the **** did the Lakers brass think hiring Brown (a guy who promised to make Bynum a beast) was a good decision? Consider the following FACTS:

A) Pau is the Lakers best low post player
B) Bynum is the Lakers best offensive rebounder
C) Kobe is at his best when he can attack from the wing and NOT run PnR basketball.

Someone tell me why, knowing the Lakers personnel would they prefer to take Bynum off the boards (by virtue of getting more post up opportunities), put Pau on the perimeter and make Kobe have to create so far away from the rim?

Bynum becoming the main focal point in the post has hurt the Lakers in more ways than 1, taking Kobe off of the triangle has hurt both his game and the Lakers. Which is funny considering how many people cited Bynum/Kobe having great years. The reality is that Kobe had one of his worst years as did Bynum. Bynum was a better player when he focused on D, crashing the offensive glass, and terrorizing defenses who were too worried about Pau/Kobe. The more low post touches Bynum got the less of a factor he was on the glass.

billsftw
05-22-2012, 07:11 AM
i honestly dont know why pau dsnt take more shots

beasted86
05-22-2012, 07:41 AM
Lakers front office was put in a tailspin by the Dallas sweep and made them rethink their whole strategy instead of just tweaking it, and putting Shaw at the head coach. Brown on the other hand was just coaching what he knows and is comfortable with which is the pick and roll.

But you are right on all 3 points.... Bynum has always been at his best when he focuses on being a defensive beast. Pau Gasol is not Chris Bosh or KG as far as a longer mid-range 15-20 shooter, he's far better as a post player and taking 10-15 foot jumpers.

But the end truth is since they traded Odom they had to commit to Brown's system. The triangle doesn't work the same with Bynum and Pau both clogging the post. I also think a sidebar thought was to establish an offense through Kobe and Bynum so Pau could be traded.

Patman
05-22-2012, 07:41 AM
Yeah I said it, the golden child isnt ready to take the reign, so someone tell me WHY the **** did the Lakers brass think hiring Brown (a guy who promised to make Bynum a beast) was a good decision? Consider the following FACTS:

A) Pau is the Lakers best low post player
B) Bynum is the Lakers best offensive rebounder
C) Kobe is at his best when he can attack from the wing and NOT run PnR basketball.

Someone tell me why, knowing the Lakers personnel would they prefer to take Bynum off the boards (by virtue of getting more post up opportunities), put Pau on the perimeter and make Kobe have to create so far away from the rim?

Bynum becoming the main focal point in the post has hurt the Lakers in more ways than 1, taking Kobe off of the triangle has hurt both his game and the Lakers. Which is funny considering how many people cited Bynum/Kobe having great years. The reality is that Kobe had one of his worst years as did Bynum. Bynum was a better player when he focused on D, crashing the offensive glass, and terrorizing defenses who were too worried about Pau/Kobe. The more low post touches Bynum got the less of a factor he was on the glass.


Honestly one of their big problems is Floor Spacing and I don't think that the Triangle would fix this. On the other hand the Triangle or at least a part of it should have been used, just because you don't have tremendous P&R players and 3 good to great Post up players.

They wanted to develop Bynum more and from a Spacing standpoint, I can understand that decision, they don't have much shooting on the Perimeter, so Gasol in the Midrange at least provides a bit of Space. While with Gasol in the Post up and Bynum off the ball the spacing would suffer even more.

I think that was an admission to going forward with Bynum, I think the guy got unhappy with his amount of touches. Even though the Combo of Bynum Controlling the Boards and the Paint on defense and letting Kobe/Gasol doing there stuff would be the better option as a Team.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-22-2012, 01:49 PM
Bynum has horrible attitude, Chronz is right, Bynum is not the future cornerstone of the Lakers. He's garbage and never shows up when you need him most.

PLAYERS FAN
05-22-2012, 01:57 PM
Trade Bynum for depth! He's holding Gasol back! Jim Buss suck!

Sadds The Gr8
05-22-2012, 02:03 PM
great points. I don't think Gasol got enough touches...they treated him like he was Perkins on offense or some **** at times. Bynum was amazing during the middle of the season but when teams figured him out he started to struggle. I think if they're still set on making Bynum the main option in the post then they need to trade Gasol for some depth.

Il Mago50
05-22-2012, 02:11 PM
Man, this team needs to add shooters and it's still the beast that it's always been. The management was ****ing ******** for the Lakers, like think about it...

You have two of the top 5-8 post players in the game, both that command a double team when they're playing well in the post. What do you need in order for them to avoid being doubled and others to cheat off to help against them? Perimeter shooters. Perimeter shooters. Perimeter shooters. Perimeter shooters.

Let's look at the 3p% figures from the past year. The Lakers were 26th in the league at it in the regular season, only above the Bobcats, Sacramento, Utah and Washington.

You were relying on Matt Barnes, Steve Blake, Ramon Sessions, Metta and Kobe (broke wrist before season which should've let you know not to rely on him out there) to space the floor...??? What were they thinking??? You have four guys that can't be relied to hit a totally wide open three let alone shoot consistently night in and night out. None of these guys at any point were known as shooters save for Blake and his corner shots.

You couldn't have picked up Michael Redd to come off the bench for 15 minutes to space the floor? You couldn't have traded for Calderon, Marco Bellineli, Ray Felton, Chase Budinger, Kevin Martin, Kirk Hinrich, etc. etc. etc. When you saw you needed guys to space the floor midseason, you couldn't have gone out and signed Eddie House to provide that off of the bench...?

The season was lost because the management failed to understand how post players operate and what you need for them to be successful. The closest thing they did to a right decision was signing Jason Kapono who isn't even a real basketball player.

In a season where they could've easily won a championship, especially with the Heat potentially being ousted, this is a lost season for the Lakers.

Il Mago50
05-22-2012, 02:13 PM
great points. I don't think Gasol got enough touches...they treated him like he was Perkins on offense or some **** at times. Bynum was amazing during the middle of the season but when teams figured him out he started to struggle. I think if they're still set on making Bynum the main option in the post then they need to trade Gasol for some depth.

I think the best I saw this team play was when Kobe was out hurt in the late stages of the season. The ball moved, the post players dominated the ball and everyone felt involved. Whenever Kobe has taken over a game on his own, the team has always suffered. Had he come back and understood that for him to win, he needed to defer slightly to the bigs and not stagnate the ball, he'd be playing for another month. Instead, in the fourth quarter of every game, he chose to dribble the ball for 22 seconds almost every possession and then take a ******** heat-check shot with the shot clock winding down.

John Walls Era
05-22-2012, 02:14 PM
Triangle offense before the 4th q is great, but its ends with the same thing as we saw in the okc series.

Teeboy1487
05-22-2012, 02:14 PM
I agree, but we really missed the versatility of Odom the most. Bynum is definitely not a player ready to take the reigns. He is far too inconsistent. You know the league sucks at center when he is the 2nd best center in the league. He's not a dominant player at all. I think the lakers should trade him now while they have the chance.

Il Mago50
05-22-2012, 02:17 PM
I agree, but we really missed the versatility of Odom the most. Bynum is definitely not a player ready to take the reigns. He is far too inconsistent. You know the league sucks at center when he is the 2nd best center in the league. He's not a dominant player at all. I think the lakers should trade him now while they have the chance.

I'll give you Bargnani and Calderon for him any day of the week, would help both of us with what we're trying to do. You need shooters/scorers that can play off of Kobe and Gasol and we need another building block.

Ballah0liC1
05-22-2012, 02:20 PM
The triangle offense left with Phil jackson, I agree with what you said though, I think mike browns offense is just like when shaq was there except the personal is way different, the old laker teams had 3 or 4 good outside shooters at once on court, the lakers now have two post players and a bunch of inconsistent outside shooters

Il Mago50
05-22-2012, 02:22 PM
The triangle offense left with Phil jackson, I agree with what you said though, I think mike browns offense is just like when shaq was there except the personal is way different, the old laker teams had 3 or 4 good outside shooters at once on court, the lakers now have two post players and a bunch of inconsistent outside shooters

Exactly.

Il Mago50
05-22-2012, 02:24 PM
And for people saying the the Paul trade would've changed things, it would not have worked. Kobe and Paul are both much too reliant on controlling and pounding the rock on the ground, there would be no movement and you'd have Josh McRoberts starting and no shooting whatsoever on the floor although Paul would obviously help in that department.

Ebbs
05-22-2012, 02:25 PM
I honestly think the problem is since last years post season Pau seems unmotivated. Kobe has played selfish all year, and Bynum believes he is a superstar.

Hellcrooner
05-22-2012, 02:26 PM
I honestly think the problem is since last years post season Pau seems unmotivated. Kobe has played selfish all year, and Bynum believes he is a superstar.


Bynum started getting more touches around april in 2011.

problems started there.

Lakersfan2483
05-22-2012, 02:37 PM
Yeah I said it, the golden child isnt ready to take the reign, so someone tell me WHY the **** did the Lakers brass think hiring Brown (a guy who promised to make Bynum a beast) was a good decision? Consider the following FACTS:

A) Pau is the Lakers best low post player
B) Bynum is the Lakers best offensive rebounder
C) Kobe is at his best when he can attack from the wing and NOT run PnR basketball.

Someone tell me why, knowing the Lakers personnel would they prefer to take Bynum off the boards (by virtue of getting more post up opportunities), put Pau on the perimeter and make Kobe have to create so far away from the rim?

Bynum becoming the main focal point in the post has hurt the Lakers in more ways than 1, taking Kobe off of the triangle has hurt both his game and the Lakers. Which is funny considering how many people cited Bynum/Kobe having great years. The reality is that Kobe had one of his worst years as did Bynum. Bynum was a better player when he focused on D, crashing the offensive glass, and terrorizing defenses who were too worried about Pau/Kobe. The more low post touches Bynum got the less of a factor he was on the glass.

:clap: I have been asking this all year.

Stinkyoutsider
05-22-2012, 03:15 PM
The Lakers need changes because if they keep the same team together next year, they'll lose again in the playoffs.

I've never like Bynum's attitude or work ethic. He could be a core player on a good team but I wouldn't have him be the number 1 option on my team. Gasol was used wrong and there's not much as far as talent on the team.

I think the Lakers have a tough decision. They have 2 of the best 7 footers in the game right now but the team isn't going to work as constructed. Maybe one of them need to go, or maybe Kobe needs to go? As crazy as that sounds, I'm sure Kobe will bring back a nice package of players. Then, the ball can always work from the post out to the perimeter and get open shots for shooters.

amos1er
05-22-2012, 04:49 PM
Yeah I said it, the golden child isnt ready to take the reign, so someone tell me WHY the **** did the Lakers brass think hiring Brown (a guy who promised to make Bynum a beast) was a good decision? Consider the following FACTS:

A) Pau is the Lakers best low post player
B) Bynum is the Lakers best offensive rebounder
C) Kobe is at his best when he can attack from the wing and NOT run PnR basketball.

Someone tell me why, knowing the Lakers personnel would they prefer to take Bynum off the boards (by virtue of getting more post up opportunities), put Pau on the perimeter and make Kobe have to create so far away from the rim?

Bynum becoming the main focal point in the post has hurt the Lakers in more ways than 1, taking Kobe off of the triangle has hurt both his game and the Lakers. Which is funny considering how many people cited Bynum/Kobe having great years. The reality is that Kobe had one of his worst years as did Bynum. Bynum was a better player when he focused on D, crashing the offensive glass, and terrorizing defenses who were too worried about Pau/Kobe. The more low post touches Bynum got the less of a factor he was on the glass.

For once, I agree with everything you have said.

Unfortunately, the Lakers brilliant owner Jimmy (Fredo) Buss does not and will foolishly see the Bynum experiment to the bitter end.

I believe that the smart move is to trade Bynum and fire Brown.

8kobe24
05-22-2012, 05:13 PM
Yeah I said it, the golden child isnt ready to take the reign, so someone tell me WHY the **** did the Lakers brass think hiring Brown (a guy who promised to make Bynum a beast) was a good decision? Consider the following FACTS:

A) Pau is the Lakers best low post player
B) Bynum is the Lakers best offensive rebounder
C) Kobe is at his best when he can attack from the wing and NOT run PnR basketball.

Someone tell me why, knowing the Lakers personnel would they prefer to take Bynum off the boards (by virtue of getting more post up opportunities), put Pau on the perimeter and make Kobe have to create so far away from the rim?

Bynum becoming the main focal point in the post has hurt the Lakers in more ways than 1, taking Kobe off of the triangle has hurt both his game and the Lakers. Which is funny considering how many people cited Bynum/Kobe having great years. The reality is that Kobe had one of his worst years as did Bynum. Bynum was a better player when he focused on D, crashing the offensive glass, and terrorizing defenses who were too worried about Pau/Kobe. The more low post touches Bynum got the less of a factor he was on the glass.

:worthy: Chronz for President :flag::worthy:

Bruno
05-22-2012, 05:46 PM
i agree.

although i wouldn't say they had bad seasons. i'd argue they did great considering this horrible system.

8kobe24
05-22-2012, 05:52 PM
i agree.

although i wouldn't say they had bad seasons. i'd argue they did great considering this horrible system.

Oh how I wish potato head gets fired.:mad:

Kevj77
05-22-2012, 06:04 PM
great points. I don't think Gasol got enough touches...they treated him like he was Perkins on offense or some **** at times. Bynum was amazing during the middle of the season but when teams figured him out he started to struggle. I think if they're still set on making Bynum the main option in the post then they need to trade Gasol for some depth.That was because he was being played one on one for most of the first half of the season. Once teams started to double him it was easy to see it bothered him. He doesn't pass out of the double or go quick enough before it comes.

J4KOP99
05-22-2012, 06:14 PM
Bynum and Pau cannot co-exist. Gasol get's touches in this offense, but they are usually from about 15 feet out... that's not where he needs the ball. Gasol's low-post game is still light years ahead of Bynum's but with Bynum clogging up the lane and not being able to consistently dominate, it keeps Pau out on the perimeter.

One of them has to go. The triangle would help but I still don't think it would work out.