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naps
05-21-2012, 03:15 PM
So the game LeBron had yesterday (40/18/9) was the best statistical game in playoff history since Elgin Baylor in 1961. I am really surprised that Wilt Chamberlain, the greatest player when it comes to monster stats, didn't even have a game like this in his prime? Or other statistical monsters such as Magic or Jordan or Bird or even Shaq? Kinda shocking to me.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 03:17 PM
As for Wilt: Pace and minutes adjusted.

Where did you read this? Meaning, do they bring up any other monster games?

asandhu23
05-21-2012, 03:19 PM
Centers don't assist that much.

naps
05-21-2012, 03:21 PM
As for Wilt: Pace and minutes adjusted.

Where did you read this? Meaning, do they bring up any other monster games?

They mentioned it on ESPN. Elgin Baylor had a similar game in 1961 playoffs. None since then until yesterday.

EDIT: They mentioned it here. Ranking LeBron's game 4 (http://search.espn.go.com/first-take/videos/6).

naps
05-21-2012, 03:23 PM
Centers don't assist that much.

True but didn't Wilt Chamberlain lead the league in assists in a season? That's ridiculous. You would think someone who led the league in assists could easily have a 9/10 assists game in the playoffs. And I have seen Shaq having that many assists many times. So it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 03:25 PM
Hmm. I actually thought his game against Detroit in 09's was better. I wonder what parameters they are using. Because there have been some games statistically very strong.

naps
05-21-2012, 03:29 PM
Hmm. I actually thought his game against Detroit in 09's was better. I wonder what parameters they are using. Because there have been some games statistically very strong.

I think it was '07 against Pistons, no?

But yea, I was surprised because I thought there had to be some games as dominant statistically. I think they are using allround stats, meaning the combination of points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks.

Lo Porto
05-21-2012, 03:33 PM
I just think they are using that exact stat line of 40-18-9. Wilt had better stat lines than that in his day.

AIMelo=KillaDUO
05-21-2012, 03:35 PM
Melo had 42, 17, and 6, and he didn't get this much praise...

BobbyHillSwag
05-21-2012, 03:42 PM
Melo's game was better people just becoming stat whores. I mean look at both games and you couldn't possibly tell me lebron's game was better than melo's against boston.

naps
05-21-2012, 03:43 PM
I just think they are using that exact stat line of 40-18-9. Wilt had better stat lines than that in his day.

C'mon it's not exact stat line. It's 40/18/9 or better.

llemon
05-21-2012, 03:44 PM
In the '67 playoffs, Wilt averaged 21.7 ppg, 29.1 rpg & 9,0 apg. No report on his blocked shots.

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-21-2012, 03:45 PM
True but didn't Wilt Chamberlain lead the league in assists in a season? That's ridiculous. You would think someone who led the league in assists could easily have a 9/10 assists game in the playoffs. And I have seen Shaq having that many assists many times. So it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Yeah, Wilt was a scrub. He couldn't get double digit assists a game. He was too busy scoring 50 pts a game and grabbing 25 boards a game.

naps
05-21-2012, 03:48 PM
Melo had 42, 17, and 6, and he didn't get this much praise...

Well it's not better than 40/18/9 statistically. I am sure there are plenty of other games that are close but not just better. But again it's still surprising to me.

As for the praise part, Melo was praised for that game everywhere as far as I remember even his performance could win the game for them or couldn't save the eventual sweep. Winning plays big in most people's mind.

BobbyHillSwag
05-21-2012, 03:49 PM
lets be honest lebron's game is being overrated vastly. He's wasn't nearly as dominate as his stats suggest. Anyone watching it could see that.

naps
05-21-2012, 03:51 PM
Yeah, Wilt was a scrub. He couldn't get double digit assists a game. He was too busy scoring 50 pts a game and grabbing 25 boards a game.

:confused: I don't know if it's a sarcasm or was meant to be funny. Wilt is probably the best passing big man of all time. I mean the guy led the league in assists for god's sake. No one should be surprised if he had 10 assists a game in the playoffs. C'mon now!

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-21-2012, 03:52 PM
:confused: I don't know if it's a sarcasm or was meant to be funny. Wilt is probably the best passing big man of all time. I mean the guy led the league in assists for god's sake. No one should be surprised if he had 10 assists a game in the playoffs. C'mon now!

Trying to be funny, I failed. :laugh2:

LeMarcus
05-21-2012, 03:55 PM
lets be honest lebron's game is being overrated vastly. He's wasn't nearly as dominate as his stats suggest. Anyone watching it could see that.

You're watching a completely diffetent game if you can say he didn't nearly dominate as his stat suggest.

I'd like to know how and why you concluded that his performance was overrated in a must win game 4.

ThunderousDemon
05-21-2012, 03:56 PM
Lebron is the GOAT. He is better than Jordan,kobe,bird,Magic,Kareem,Wilt,Bill, and shaq combined. Hey Naps, am I doing it right? :p

naps
05-21-2012, 03:56 PM
Trying to be funny, I failed. :laugh2:

Hahaha...do a better job next time dude.

naps
05-21-2012, 03:58 PM
Lebron is the GOAT. He is better than Jordan,kobe,bird,Magic,Kareem,Wilt,Bill, and shaq combined. Hey Naps, am I doing it right? :p

Yeah, you are doing it right for the first time in your PSD career ;)

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 03:58 PM
In the '67 playoffs, Wilt averaged 21.7 ppg, 29.1 rpg & 9,0 apg. No report on his blocked shots.

right, but as stated, if we equalize pace alone, his numbers don't look anywhere as sexy as those per game averages would suggest.

naps
05-21-2012, 04:00 PM
right, but as stated, if we equalize pace alone, his numbers don't look anywhere as sexy as those per game averages would suggest.

And to add to that, I don't think they adjusted pace in this case. They just took raw per game stats which is more shocking.

llemon
05-21-2012, 04:04 PM
right, but as stated, if we equalize pace alone, his numbers don't look anywhere as sexy as those per game averages would suggest.

Not showing enough skin?

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 04:06 PM
Not showing enough skin?

Precisely.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 04:09 PM
And to add to that, I don't think they adjusted pace in this case. They just took raw per game stats which is more shocking.

Back in that era, there were roughly 125-128 possessions per game. Miami runs at roughly 92 possessions a game. We now have a multiplier of 1.367 to multiply any per game number to generate what that would equal in 1967.

LeBron last night with the multiplier: 55 pts, 25 rebs, 12 asts.

naps
05-21-2012, 04:11 PM
Back in that era, there were roughly 125-128 possessions per game. Miami runs at roughly 92 possessions a game. We now have a multiplier of 1.367 to multiply any per game number to generate what that would equal in 1967.

LeBron last night with the multiplier: 55 pts, 25 rebs, 12 asts.

:speechless:

tredigs
05-21-2012, 04:15 PM
It's not ''the best statistical game in playoff history'', it's simply the first time since yesteryear that that particular combination of points/rebounds/assists have been eclipsed. You could choose any number of 3 different statistics to look at in any given playoff year and I'm sure you could find a half dozen or so stat lines that haven't occured in half a century. Ibaka with blocks + whatever comes to mind. Jordan with points/rebounds or assists and steals comes to mind, etc.

Not to take away from the performance, but there is more to dominating statistically (and obviously dominating in general) than just those 3 lines.

What was Eglin's that game anyway. Was that the game he put up like 60/20 in the Finals?

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 04:21 PM
It's not ''the best statistical game in playoff history'', it's simply the first time since yesteryear that that particular combination of points/rebounds/assists have been eclipsed. You could choose any number of 3 different statistics to look at in any given playoff year and I'm sure you could find a half dozen or so stat lines that haven't occured in half a century. Ibaka with blocks + whatever comes to mind. Jordan with points/rebounds or assists and steals comes to mind, etc.

Not to take away from the performance, but there is more to dominating statistically (and obviously dominating in general) than just those 3 lines.

What was Eglin's that game anyway. Was that the game he put up like 60/20 in the Finals?

right. I read the daily dime article after naps said espn, and it looks like they simply say its the best since Baylor. You are also correct in that we could probably find games that were statistically as dominant. LeBron's line just fit a mold for an piece.

JordansBulls
05-21-2012, 04:22 PM
It's not ''the best statistical game in playoff history'', it's simply the first time since yesteryear that that particular combination of points/rebounds/assists have been eclipsed. You could choose any number of 3 different statistics to look at in any given playoff year and I'm sure you could find a half dozen or so stat lines that haven't occured in half a century. Ibaka with blocks + whatever comes to mind. Jordan with points/rebounds or assists and steals comes to mind, etc.

Not to take away from the performance, but there is more to dominating statistically (and obviously dominating in general) than just those 3 lines.

What was Eglin's that game anyway. Was that the game he put up like 60/20 in the Finals?

This. Not to mention it probably wasn't even Lebron James's best playoff game either. His game against Atlanta in 2009, vs Orlando in 2009, vs Chicago in round 1 in 2010 were better and maybe even his game 7 vs Boston in 2008.

Bruno
05-21-2012, 04:45 PM
LBJ game four vs Indiana, 2012:
40 points, 18 rebounds, 9 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, 5 turnovers, TS%- .587

Shaq game one vs Indiana, 2000:
43 points, 19 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks, 2 turnovers, TS% .639

Shaq game two vs. Indiana 2000:
40 points, 24 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks, 2 turnovers, TS% .569

Shaq game one vs. Sacramento, 2001:
44 points, 21 rebounds, 4 assists, 7 blocks, 2 turnovers, TS%- .545

MJ game three, vs NYK, 1989:
40 points, 15 rebounds, 9 assists, 6 steals, 1 blocks, 3 turnovers, TS%- .651

the avenger
05-21-2012, 04:46 PM
So the game LeBron had yesterday (40/18/9) was the best statistical game in playoff history since Elgin Baylor in 1961. I am really surprised that Wilt Chamberlain, the greatest player when it comes to monster stats, didn't even have a game like this in his prime? Or other statistical monsters such as Magic or Jordan or Bird or even Shaq? Kinda shocking to me.

No offense, but the game LeBron had was NOT the best statistical game in playoff history... Not even close! :facepalm:m

A few examples:

#6 : Charles Barkley, June 1, 1993

43 pts, 15 reb, 10 ast, 2 stl and 2 blk - 16/22 fg, 7/7 ft

#5 : Michael Jordan, April 20, 1986

63 pts, 5 reb, 6 ast, 3 stl and 2 blk - 22/41 fg, 19/21 ft

#4 : Hakeem Olajuwon, May 14, 1987

49 pts, 25 reb, 2 ast, 2 stl and 6 blk - 19/33 fg, 11/13 ft

#3 : Sleepy Floyd, May 10, 1987

51 pts, 3reb, 10 ast and 4 stl - 18/26 fg, 13/14 ft

#2 : Michael Jordan, April 29, 1992

56 pts, 5 reb, 5 ast, 4 stl and 2 blk - 20/30 fg, 16/18 ft

#1 : Charles Barkley, May 4, 1994

56 pts, 14 reb, 4 ast, 3 stl and 1 blk - 23/31 fg, 7/9 ft

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 04:48 PM
LBJ game four vs Indiana, 2012:
40 points, 18 rebounds, 9 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, 5 turnovers, TS%- .587

Shaq game one vs Indiana, 2000:
43 points, 19 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks, 2 turnovers, TS% .639

Shaq game two vs. Indiana 2000:
40 points, 24 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks, 2 turnovers, TS% .569

Shaq game one vs. Sacramento, 2001:
44 points, 21 rebounds, 4 assists, 7 blocks, 2 turnovers, TS%- .545

MJ game three, vs NYK, 1989:
40 points, 15 rebounds, 9 assists, 6 steals, 1 blocks, 3 turnovers, TS%- .651

so your telling me Indiana had problems with Shaq in 2000?

JordansBulls
05-21-2012, 04:50 PM
LBJ game four vs Indiana, 2012:
40 points, 18 rebounds, 9 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, 5 turnovers, TS%- .587

Shaq game one vs Indiana, 2000:
43 points, 19 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks, 2 turnovers, TS% .639

Shaq game two vs. Indiana 2000:
40 points, 24 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks, 2 turnovers, TS% .569

Shaq game one vs. Sacramento, 2001:
44 points, 21 rebounds, 4 assists, 7 blocks, 2 turnovers, TS%- .545

MJ game three, vs NYK, 1989:
40 points, 15 rebounds, 9 assists, 6 steals, 1 blocks, 3 turnovers, TS%- .651

You could just check the game score and you see Lebron's game score was 37.2. He himself has had several higher than that in the playoffs.

Swashcuff
05-21-2012, 04:50 PM
Its amazing that these guys who sit on these TV stations come up and says thing like it was the best statistical game in post season his. Statistically LeBron has been better in the post season.

Game 5 of the first round series against Washington where he scored 45, 7 and 6 on 14-23 from the field and 17-18 from the line

Game 5 double OT thriller against Detroit in 07 ECF.

His 49 point game against the Magic in 09, as well as his 45, 12 and 8 game against the Hawks in that very same post season.

Maybe even a few others could be argued as being better statistically. What about this game however was the fact that its unique and that's why its been looked at so greatley. There have been tonnes of Better performances by other players between then and now.

Swashcuff
05-21-2012, 04:51 PM
You could just check the game score and you see Lebron's game score was 37.2. He himself has had several higher than that in the playoffs.

Yup he was an absolute monster statistically against Orlando and Atlanta in 09.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 04:54 PM
yeah, I just looked through the years of playoffs for Bron, this is clearly not his best game statistically. Not sure why espn saw fit to make a huge deal out of this one. Now, I can see showing it as a tandem game with Wade, or for a half, but not for Bron.

JasonJohnHorn
05-21-2012, 05:08 PM
Wilt posted plenty of games more impressive than that in the playoffs... he was averaging over 30/20 a game for several seasons and never averaged less than 20 rebounds per game in the playoffs. This isn't one game out of the playoffs that he was posting these numbers, but EVERY game in the playoffs. Jame sposted 18 rebounds is an anomoly. Chamberlain averaging as many a 30.2 rebounds (averaging, not one game, but an AVERAGE game) is far more impressive than LBJ having one game where he gets about a dozen more rebounds than he usually gets. But he played a lot of minutes at PF that game, so of course he's going to have a higher rebounding output that night.

When James can come in and AVERAGE 21 points, 29 rebounds and 9 assists... THEN I will be willing to hear comparisons to Wilt... until then... he gets a round of aplause for having a big game in a must win situation... but statistically he's playing in Wilt's shadow.

b@llhog24
05-21-2012, 05:16 PM
Back in that era, there were roughly 125-128 possessions per game. Miami runs at roughly 92 possessions a game. We now have a multiplier of 1.367 to multiply any per game number to generate what that would equal in 1967.

LeBron last night with the multiplier: 55 pts, 25 rebs, 12 asts.
:drool:

Its amazing that these guys who sit on these TV stations come up and says thing like it was the best statistical game in post season his. Statistically LeBron has been better in the post season.

Game 5 of the first round series against Washington where he scored 45, 7 and 6 on 14-23 from the field and 17-18 from the line

Game 5 double OT thriller against Detroit in 07 ECF.

His 49 point game against the Magic in 09, as well as his 45, 12 and 8 game against the Hawks in that very same post season.

Maybe even a few others could be argued as being better statistically. What about this game however was the fact that its unique and that's why its been looked at so greatley. There have been tonnes of Better performances by other players between then and now.

Well in fairness they were ranking this morning (can't remember which show) and cited the Detriot game as his best and the Magic game as his 2nd. This one came in third.


yeah, I just looked through the years of playoffs for Bron, this is clearly not his best game statistically. Not sure why espn saw fit to make a huge deal out of this one. Now, I can see showing it as a tandem game with Wade, or for a half, but not for Bron.

They were saying something about how it was a game where he responded well to the pressure of going down 3-1. So that's why they ranked it so highly.

the avenger
05-21-2012, 05:16 PM
Talking about game scores in the playoffs, I just checked the top 100 and noticed:

Jordan made the list 17 (!!!)times
Barkley and James made the list 9 times
Olajuwon and O'Neal 6 times
Nowitzki 5 times
Duncan 4 times
Bryant and Drexler 3 times

The list only goed back to the 1987 playoffs though..too bad! But it's still interesting to see how some players kinda choke in the playoffs: Garnett (once) and Malone (twice) hardly made the list.

Swashcuff
05-21-2012, 05:16 PM
Wilt posted plenty of games more impressive than that in the playoffs... he was averaging over 30/20 a game for several seasons and never averaged less than 20 rebounds per game in the playoffs. This isn't one game out of the playoffs that he was posting these numbers, but EVERY game in the playoffs. Jame sposted 18 rebounds is an anomoly. Chamberlain averaging as many a 30.2 rebounds (averaging, not one game, but an AVERAGE game) is far more impressive than LBJ having one game where he gets about a dozen more rebounds than he usually gets. But he played a lot of minutes at PF that game, so of course he's going to have a higher rebounding output that night.

When James can come in and AVERAGE 21 points, 29 rebounds and 9 assists... THEN I will be willing to hear comparisons to Wilt... until then... he gets a round of aplause for having a big game in a must win situation... but statistically he's playing in Wilt's shadow.

Don't geat ahead of yourself.

There are major differences in the league between now and then. There is virtually zero possiblity of Wade dominating the box score like that for an entire series much less a post season in today's NBA.

Hawkeye15 posted LeBron's raw pace adjusted #s earlier. If he did the same for Wilt his performances would be brought down to earth relative to performances throughout the eras.

Swashcuff
05-21-2012, 05:18 PM
Talking about game scores in the playoffs, I just checked the top 100 and noticed:

Jordan made the list 17 (!!!)times
Barkley and James made the list 9 times
Olajuwon and O'Neal 6 times
Nowitzki 5 times
Duncan 4 times
Bryant and Drexler 3 times

The list only goed back to the 1987 playoffs though..too bad! But it's still interesting to see how some players kinda choke in the playoffs: Garnett (once) and Malone (twice) hardly made the list.

Dude SEND US A LINK!

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 05:18 PM
They were saying something about how it was a game where he responded well to the pressure of going down 3-1. So that's why they ranked it so highly.

Then the game against Detroit or Orlando takes it for me over last night. Regardless, great game.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 05:19 PM
Talking about game scores in the playoffs, I just checked the top 100 and noticed:

Jordan made the list 17 (!!!)times
Barkley and James made the list 9 times
Olajuwon and O'Neal 6 times
Nowitzki 5 times
Duncan 4 times
Bryant and Drexler 3 times

The list only goed back to the 1987 playoffs though..too bad! But it's still interesting to see how some players kinda choke in the playoffs: Garnett (once) and Malone (twice) hardly made the list.

where are you getting this info?

the avenger
05-21-2012, 05:19 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/game_score_game_p.html

Here you go!

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 05:21 PM
bahaha, look at Chuck's offensive rating in that #1 game (163). Holy ****.

naps
05-21-2012, 05:32 PM
In no way, form, or shape it was the most dominant statistical performance ever since 1961. Like others already mentioned LeBron himself had bettet games many times...specially that pistons series 5 years ago. What was strictly striking to me is that no one had a game of that specific combination. You would easily think there should be at least handful number of games with 40+ points, 18+ boards, and 9+ assists.

Bruno
05-21-2012, 06:03 PM
regardless, the fact that we had to go to 'all-time' leader lists and dig through the greatest games of the best players from the ages puts the game into perspective. their back was against the wall, and they played big. historically great performance by lbj.

we haven't seen a duo dominate like this for about ten years.

BobbyHillSwag
05-21-2012, 06:12 PM
lol this just shows how overrated statistics are. Lebron wasnt even that dominate in that game for real. Lol at these boxscore watchers salivating over that. since when does statistics=dominate? Lol at bspn trying to push this ***** on us. Ive seen many better playoff performances from kobe, iverson, and even lebron himself. Who are they trying to fool? I watched the game, he wasnt that dominate. Statistics are overrated and im a huge lebron fan

Jayrich28
05-21-2012, 06:17 PM
jordan in 97 finals had 38pts,13 reb, 9 ast against utah on his way to his 5th ring ..............whateva to lebron and u stat hoars

Jayrich28
05-21-2012, 06:19 PM
do it in the finals lebron like jordan,magic, bird ,shaq ,hakeem and all the real greats

BobbyHillSwag
05-21-2012, 06:21 PM
lol it's not impressive even in the finals, sorry it's only impressive to stat whores. If you watched that game he wasnt even really dominate

popo85
05-21-2012, 06:31 PM
regardless, the fact that we had to go to 'all-time' leader lists and dig through the greatest games of the best players from the ages puts the game into perspective. their back was against the wall, and they played big. historically great performance by lbj.

we haven't seen a duo dominate like this for about ten years.

Agreed regardless finals or not a great game for LeBron.

bagwell368
05-21-2012, 06:48 PM
In the '67 playoffs, Wilt averaged 21.7 ppg, 29.1 rpg & 9,0 apg. No report on his blocked shots.

best to look at reb vs other players back then (no % stats), the totals were obscene due to low shooting %.

NoahH
05-21-2012, 06:50 PM
Melo had 42, 17, and 6, and he didn't get this much praise...

Didn't his team lose?

IversonIsKrazy
05-21-2012, 06:53 PM
Pretty sure during '03 finals, Duncan put up some ridiculous numbers that'll shock stat whores and real NBA fans.

kubernetes
05-21-2012, 06:57 PM
I don't want to diminish LBJ because it was a great performance, but I feel like we're being over-statted to death. It seems like every week there's some "historical" performance where they slice up certain stat lines "No player since ___ has scored x points with y rebounds, z steals and no turnovers!" I've just started to tune it out.

BobbyHillSwag
05-21-2012, 07:01 PM
I don't want to diminish LBJ because it was a great performance, but I feel like we're being over-statted to death. It seems like every week there's some "historical" performance where they slice up certain stat lines "No player since ___ has scored x points with y rebounds, z steals and no turnovers!" I've just started to tune it out.

this is the only point im trying to make, you can find a no name player that puts up some type of historical performance. It's not that impressive.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 07:05 PM
I love the term "stat whores". Given by those who don't have a clear understanding of what they represent nor their importance. But keep on telling me what your eyes see, I care!

northsider
05-21-2012, 07:08 PM
Great stat line but, there have been a ton of better performances including ones by Lebron himself.

And its not shocking honestly. He is needed to do allot for that team and especially even more with Bosh out. Prob. going to wear him out but, he will be up for the task IMO.

Chronz
05-21-2012, 07:15 PM
Wilt had a 20-20-20 game, I forget what his actual stats were but they surpassed the 20 mark for sure.

And if we arent counting playoffs hes also had a 53-32-14


Back in that era, there were roughly 125-128 possessions per game. Miami runs at roughly 92 possessions a game. We now have a multiplier of 1.367 to multiply any per game number to generate what that would equal in 1967.

LeBron last night with the multiplier: 55 pts, 25 rebs, 12 asts.

The assists dont change much when you factor in league rates, but yea, 93 possessions is alot less to work with.

bagwell368
05-21-2012, 07:21 PM
All I know is that I've seen James spit up in key spots in the playoffs. Two years Boston disposed of him, last year the Mavs...

There is nothing bigger then a Game 7. Bill Russell played in 10 of them:

1957 Hawks: 19/32
1959 Syracuse: 18/32
1960 Hawks: 22/35
1962 Philly: 19/?
1962 Lakers: 30/44
1963 Cinci: 20/?
1965 Philly: 15/29
1966 Lakers: 25/32
1968 Philly: 12/26
1969 Lakers: 6/21

10-0. He was an excellent passer so his assist totals after 1963 in particular could have been near or over double digit. His blocks were usually over 5 per game too.

That's a great career never mind game.

Sadds The Gr8
05-21-2012, 07:23 PM
This game is getting overrated. His game vs Detroit years ago was WAY better

BobbyHillSwag
05-21-2012, 07:25 PM
This game is getting overrated. His game vs Detroit years ago was WAY better

agreed, this game wasnt even dominate really.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 07:26 PM
Wilt had a 20-20-20 game, I forget what his actual stats were but they surpassed the 20 mark for sure.

And if we arent counting playoffs hes also had a 53-32-14



The assists dont change much when you factor in league rates, but yea, 93 possessions is alot less to work with.

oh for sure, because you rarely see more than 8-10 assists coming from a non-dominant PG. If we took a ridiculous Rondo game though, and gave it the old school multiplier, it would look crazy.

khaleesi
05-21-2012, 07:29 PM
All hail LeBron's great game. Media back on the GOAT train!!!

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 07:33 PM
I seriously don't mean to take anything away from Wilt or Russell, but you do understand they had roughly 30-35 possessions more a game to get numbers then players today, and Wilt sat about 40 seconds a game over his career. Factor in the league wide putrid FG% over a good portion of those years, and those per game numbers have to be equalized with today's players to compare.

Sadds The Gr8
05-21-2012, 07:38 PM
agreed, this game wasnt even dominate really.

yea no doubt he was amazing yesterday, but I never had the feeling that I was watching some legendary performance

khaleesi
05-21-2012, 07:46 PM
Call me when LeBron averages 50 PPG per season. Or 20 Reb per game.

BobbyHillSwag
05-21-2012, 07:56 PM
Call me when LeBron averages 50 PPG per season. Or 20 Reb per game.

he doesnt have to he's his own player. Stop listening to bspn trying to make him what he's not. It was a great game just getting overrated, it wasnt dominating though which is sad because people think it was by just reading the boxscore. dominance is kobe against the suns in the 10' playoffs or iverson against the hornets in 03 playoffs.

torocan
05-21-2012, 08:11 PM
40/18/9 in a single playoff game is an artifical stat. A remarkable stat, but that combination of stats is artifical.

Wilt Chamberlain - Playoff Seasons

1960/61 - 37.0ppg, 23.0 reb, 2.0 ast (including a 53 point game)
1961/62 - 35.0ppg, 26.6 reb, 3.1 ast
1963/64 - 34.7ppg, 25.3 reb, 3.3 ast

It's hard to rack up great assist numbers when you're AVERAGING 37 ppg.

Just some tidbits...

In game 5 of the 1960 EF playoffs against Boston he scored 50 points.

In game 5 of the 1962 playoffs against Syracuse, he scored 56 points, and 35 rebounds.

In game 3 of the 1967 playoffs against Atlanta, Wilt had a staggering 20 points and 41 rebounds.

In game 5 of the 1972 Finals against NY, Wilt scored 24 points, 27 rebounds, 8 assists and 8 blocks.

Lebron's game was great, but the stat itself was not all that meaningful.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 08:14 PM
40/18/9 in a single playoff game is an artifical stat. A remarkable stat, but that combination of stats is artifical.

Wilt Chamberlain - Playoff Seasons

1960/61 - 37.0ppg, 23.0 reb, 2.0 ast (including a 53 point game)
1961/62 - 35.0ppg, 26.6 reb, 3.1 ast
1963/64 - 34.7ppg, 25.3 reb, 3.3 ast

It's hard to rack up great assist numbers when you're AVERAGING 37 ppg.

Just some tidbits...

In game 5 of the 1960 EF playoffs against Boston he scored 50 points.

In game 5 of the 1962 playoffs against Syracuse, he scored 56 points, and 35 rebounds.

In game 3 of the 1967 playoffs against Atlanta, Wilt had a staggering 20 points and 41 rebounds.

In game 5 of the 1972 Finals against NY, Wilt scored 24 points, 27 rebounds, 8 assists and 8 blocks.

Lebron's game was great, but the stat itself was not all that meaningful.

Did my posts regarding the insane pace and pathetic FG% of the good old days fly straight over your head?

khaleesi
05-21-2012, 08:47 PM
Did my posts regarding the insane pace and pathetic FG% of the good old days fly straight over your head?

Your (bad) assumption is when the pace of the game picks up that the "best" player keeps getting the same amount of shots as a percentage of total shots ... that is false.

If you ever played the game you would realise fast pace games tend to better distribute shots across the entire team.

Also realise fast break points were very much a part of the game in the 1960s and suffice it to say a guy racking up 25 boards per game was not exactly benefiting from that pace.

This is why your stats are 100% meaningless. They lack context or any real understanding.

khaleesi
05-21-2012, 08:50 PM
he doesnt have to he's his own player. Stop listening to bspn trying to make him what he's not. It was a great game just getting overrated, it wasnt dominating though which is sad because people think it was by just reading the boxscore. dominance is kobe against the suns in the 10' playoffs or iverson against the hornets in 03 playoffs.

He played one great game .... OK. He is the KING right?

I would expect two of those every series.

Swashcuff
05-21-2012, 09:31 PM
I think I just hurt my brain reading the utter garbage that clown posted

Blitzbolt
05-21-2012, 09:42 PM
He also got 2 blocks and 2 steals that's the real stat line we all should be looking at.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 10:42 PM
Your (bad) assumption is when the pace of the game picks up that the "best" player keeps getting the same amount of shots as a percentage of total shots ... that is false.

Well, I wasn't really talking to you, but I am not surprised you feel this way after reading your posts. Look up the definition of pace. Its simply the speed of the game, it historically has minimal effect on raw per game numbers.


If you ever played the game you would realise fast pace games tend to better distribute shots across the entire team.

Yep, played for years. Your wrong unless the team is in top physical condition and has distributors, and you also give up defense because you are in transition much of the time. Unless you have designated defenders. In pickup games, it doesn't evolve to that degree.


Also realise fast break points were very much a part of the game in the 1960s and suffice it to say a guy racking up 25 boards per game was not exactly benefiting from that pace.

No defense was the biggest part of the game in the 1960's. Hence the track meet.


This is why your stats are 100% meaningless. They lack context or any real understanding.

It's as if you described yourself right here.

Chronz
05-21-2012, 10:45 PM
Your (bad) assumption is when the pace of the game picks up that the "best" player keeps getting the same amount of shots as a percentage of total shots ... that is false.
This is actually true but your insane to think you dont need to translate stats.


If you ever played the game you would realise fast pace games tend to better distribute shots across the entire team.

Studies have agreed with you, your still underrating the impact of pace.


Also realise fast break points were very much a part of the game in the 1960s and suffice it to say a guy racking up 25 boards per game was not exactly benefiting from that pace.

This is why your stats are 100% meaningless. They lack context or any real understanding.

Can you prove that?

tredigs
05-21-2012, 11:30 PM
.

asandhu23
05-21-2012, 11:38 PM
Hey, Hawkeye. does fatigue matter in your little "old school formula"? Players aren't robots, you know. they aren't going to score, rebound, block shots, etc at the same pace the whole game.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 11:49 PM
Hey, Hawkeye. does fatigue matter in your little "old school formula"? Players aren't robots, you know. they aren't going to score, rebound, block shots, etc at the same pace the whole game.

It matters to a degree (hence a possible explanation for nobody playing defense and league wide poor FG% back then). Take a huge guess when minutes started to decrease era wise? Its when defense was becoming more important. Back in the 50-70's, teams ran a track meet, literally minimal to no defense. There is also something to be said of the poor FG% back in the day when the track meets were happening. Usually, the faster you play the more points you score, even if the efficiency rises only slightly. But you sacrifice other portions of the game.

llemon
05-22-2012, 01:01 AM
Did my posts regarding the insane pace and pathetic FG% of the good old days fly straight over your head?

Over our heads? Nah.

But your posts really mean nothing, as there were so many other aspects of the game tha you failed to mention.

Much, much more physical play (both Wilt and Alcindor said they considered getting out of the pro game in their rookie seasons).

So many more home and home games, with the mode of transportation being a bus.

The game is certainly different, but let's think about all the differences.

torocan
05-22-2012, 01:19 AM
Did my posts regarding the insane pace and pathetic FG% of the good old days fly straight over your head?

You mean like Wilt shooting....

59/60 .461, 46.4mpg
60/61 .509, 47.8mpg
61/62 .506, 48.5mpg (yes, he played MORE than 48 mins average that season)
62/63 .528, 47.6mpg
63/64 .524, 46.1mpg
64/65 .510, 45.2mpg
65/66 .540, 45.9mpg

Yes, clearly awful FG%. And that's IN SPITE of the faster pace, AND playing more minutes.

As for your arguments of "normalizing" his stats, sorry, someone's already done that in another article...

http://chasing23.com/wilt-chamberlain-stats-debate/


Reason #2: Even if we were to normalize Wilt’s stats for 2011, they would still remain impressive.

I would be remiss to overlook the fact that players from the 1960s benefitted from statistical inflation due to style of play in which games were played at a faster pace, leading to more possessions. More possessions meant more shots, and more shots translated to more total points and rebounds. For example, in 1962, at the height of the faster offense/no defense era, teams averaged a NBA record 118.8 points per game and a near-record 71.4 rebounds. No coincidence that this is the same year that Wilt Chamberlain averaged his famous 50-25 is it?

However, even if we were to statistically normalize Wilt’s 1962 numbers according to 2011 pace, points, shooting percentage, possessions, and rebounds, his statistical accomplishments still remain nonetheless impressive. To normalize, I took the league averages from both 1962 and 2011 to help gauge how Wilt may have performed in today’s game:

•In 1962, teams averaged 118.8 ppg. In 2011, teams averaged 99.6 ppg.
•In 1962, teams averaged 71.4 rpg. In 2011, teams averaged 41.4 rpg.
•In 1962, teams averaged 23.9 apg. In 2011, teams averaged 21.5 apg.
•In 1962, players averaged 42.6% FG. In 2011, players averaged 45.9% FG.
•In 1962, players averaged 47.9% TS. In 2011, players averaged 54.3% TS.


1962 Wilt, 2011 Wilt
FG% 50.6%, 54.5%
TS% 53.6%, 57.4%
Pnts 50.4, 42.3
Rebs 25.7, 14.9
Assts 2.4, 2.2

It's really a fascinating article. :D

llemon
05-22-2012, 02:29 AM
All I know is that I've seen James spit up in key spots in the playoffs. Two years Boston disposed of him, last year the Mavs...

There is nothing bigger then a Game 7. Bill Russell played in 10 of them:

1957 Hawks: 19/32
1959 Syracuse: 18/32
1960 Hawks: 22/35
1962 Philly: 19/?
1962 Lakers: 30/44
1963 Cinci: 20/?
1965 Philly: 15/29
1966 Lakers: 25/32
1968 Philly: 12/26
1969 Lakers: 6/21

10-0. He was an excellent passer so his assist totals after 1963 in particular could have been near or over double digit. His blocks were usually over 5 per game too.

That's a great career never mind game.

So you believe game7 Finals performances define who is the best of the best?

Six-8-TheWizard
05-22-2012, 06:22 AM
Dont know if its been said yet but most of Wilts career they didnt keep track of blocks as a statistic. So you have to take that into account when comparing to Lebron's game

Cfrey
05-22-2012, 06:48 AM
lebrons 29 of the last 30 to single handedly carry his team past detroit was his best playoff performance ever hands down

Chronz
05-22-2012, 07:19 AM
Coach Spoelstra was able to limit LeBron’s minutes to a respectable 37.5MPG despite ‘Bron playing 13 games (19.6% of the season) without the team’s second best player in D-Wade. His efficiency reverted to the stratospheric level that NBA fans were accustomed to and as a result was fittingly awarded his 3rd MVP award in 4 years.

The playoffs however – thanks much in part to the lower abdominal injury suffered by Chris Bosh – are proving to be something more of a wormhole back to his days in Cleveland. LeBron James is carrying a load so large, so astronomical, so preposterous right now that there may not be a player in the history of the game who has ever had to do quite this much.


---- from det

ChicagoJ
05-22-2012, 10:51 AM
LeBron seems like a really durable player, but if I'm a heat fan I'm praying he never gets hurt. The guy is so key to their success as he would be for any team he is on.

khaleesi
05-22-2012, 11:18 AM
You mean like Wilt shooting....

59/60 .461, 46.4mpg
60/61 .509, 47.8mpg
61/62 .506, 48.5mpg (yes, he played MORE than 48 mins average that season)
62/63 .528, 47.6mpg
63/64 .524, 46.1mpg
64/65 .510, 45.2mpg
65/66 .540, 45.9mpg

Yes, clearly awful FG%. And that's IN SPITE of the faster pace, AND playing more minutes.

As for your arguments of "normalizing" his stats, sorry, someone's already done that in another article...

http://chasing23.com/wilt-chamberlain-stats-debate/



It's really a fascinating article. :D

Don't bother, he found a stat that says otherwise to him.

Normalizing is what statisticians use to justify bad conclusions.

As has been pointed out:

1) He played more minutes
2) Certain STAT not kept like Assists and Blocks
3) He played a faster pace of game than LeBron
4) He did not benefit from the faster pace. The Guards and Forward of that era did.
5) Only "inflated" stat one can point to is Rebounding. More shots, more rebounds, shorter players .... I would buy that.

But even against great teams and great players, he posted amazing games with no shrinkage.

Hawkeye will ignore all and point to poorly compiled stats to say otherwise.

Like Global Warming nuts who talk about global temperatures 200 years ago when no records even existed.......... so they impute something based on a model, run a regression, ignore the "errors" and then proclaim hysteria.

LeBron and his stats are the global warming hoax of today's basketball.

khaleesi
05-22-2012, 11:24 AM
This is actually true but your insane to think you dont need to translate stats.


Studies have agreed with you, your still underrating the impact of pace.


Can you prove that?

So you want me to prove that I am right even though you agree I am right?

Ahem, Wilt did not benefit from the style of play in the 1960s. Fast paced BB is not something 7 '2 guys are interested in. Guards benefited.

In fact, that is what made Jordan so damn special. In an era with diminishing possessions and hand checking and really physical D, he scored at very high rates with very high FG%.

So the fact, Wilt piled up stats in a fast pace game playing lots of minutes means the dude was a HORSE OF A PLAYER keeping upwhile playing BASELINE TO BASELINE for every game of the season.

LeBron played PF one game and put up stats and folks are tickling their tonsils with his unit. Wilt did that his entire career and played the entire game with no rest.

LOL.

khaleesi
05-22-2012, 11:31 AM
Over our heads? Nah.

But your posts really mean nothing, as there were so many other aspects of the game tha you failed to mention.

Much, much more physical play (both Wilt and Alcindor said they considered getting out of the pro game in their rookie seasons).

So many more home and home games, with the mode of transportation being a bus.

The game is certainly different, but let's think about all the differences.

They don't want to bother. They have these statiticisssitsiiicssss which says LeBron is better.


Even if the data compiled does not match.
Even if the minutes played and pace of game does not match.
Even if the whole playing environment does not match.
Even if the numbers that are comparable don't help you analysis.

Also ignore everything you have seen. Ignore everything you have heard. Disregard every person over 50 with an opinion. You have apples to oranges stats that whisper .....

LeBron. LeBron. LeBron.

natelpete
05-22-2012, 11:36 AM
Melo had 42, 17, and 6, and he didn't get this much praise...

What did he do at the other end of the court?

BobbyHillSwag
05-22-2012, 11:53 AM
What did he do at the other end of the court?

to be fair he's not allowedd to get away with mauling his defender like lebron does.

tredigs
05-22-2012, 01:21 PM
They don't want to bother. They have these statiticisssitsiiicssss which says LeBron is better.


Even if the data compiled does not match.
Even if the minutes played and pace of game does not match.
Even if the whole playing environment does not match.
Even if the numbers that are comparable don't help you analysis.

Also ignore everything you have seen. Ignore everything you have heard. Disregard every person over 50 with an opinion. You have apples to oranges stats that whisper .....

LeBron. LeBron. LeBron.

So out of curiousity, how do you think this version of Lebron fairs circa 1955? Favorably to a guy like Elgin who famously put up 60/20 in the finals, or less so?

I would agree it's apples to oranges in a lot of regards, but the best of the best would be the best of the best in every era.


to be fair he's not allowedd to get away with mauling his defender like lebron does.

Well, I guess we'd never know...

the avenger
05-22-2012, 02:09 PM
You mean like Wilt shooting....

59/60 .461, 46.4mpg
60/61 .509, 47.8mpg
61/62 .506, 48.5mpg (yes, he played MORE than 48 mins average that season)
62/63 .528, 47.6mpg
63/64 .524, 46.1mpg
64/65 .510, 45.2mpg
65/66 .540, 45.9mpg

Yes, clearly awful FG%. And that's IN SPITE of the faster pace, AND playing What do you mean awful FG%??? Compare it to the other players in those days...:speechless: Kobe's shooting must really make you vomit then:rolleyes:

Cfrey
05-22-2012, 02:23 PM
So you want me to prove that I am right even though you agree I am right?

Ahem, Wilt did not benefit from the style of play in the 1960s. Fast paced BB is not something 7 '2 guys are interested in. Guards benefited.

In fact, that is what made Jordan so damn special. In an era with diminishing possessions and hand checking and really physical D, he scored at very high rates with very high FG%.

So the fact, Wilt piled up stats in a fast pace game playing lots of minutes means the dude was a HORSE OF A PLAYER keeping upwhile playing BASELINE TO BASELINE for every game of the season.

LeBron played PF one game and put up stats and folks are tickling their tonsils with his unit. Wilt did that his entire career and played the entire game with no rest.

LOL.

The fact that you're trying to take away from LeBrons performance by comparing two un-comparable eras of basketball is just laughable. The fact that you think Wilt had to exert anywhere near as much energy as LeBron on a nightly basis is just laughable.

torocan
05-22-2012, 02:42 PM
What do you mean awful FG%??? Compare it to the other players in those days...:speechless: Kobe's shooting must really make you vomit then:rolleyes:

Sarcasm is a lost cause sometimes. :facepalm:

Chronz
05-22-2012, 02:56 PM
So you want me to prove that I am right even though you agree I am right?
Well yea, Ive seen the studies that hint at some of your opinions being true (possibly), specifically from the standpoint of usage dispersal, the more halfcourt a team runs the more likely they are to get the ball in its best scorers hand, whereas a higher pace is more likely to give role players more quick hitting opportunities.

That said, I cant help but think your exaggerating its effect and marginalizing the role pace plays on overall counting numbers. Wilt doesnt put up those rebounding #'s with less MPG (which coaches would force upon him) and a lower pace, what he does do is sustain his rebounding effectiveness. The point Im making is that you shouldnt take offense to someone translating his per game rates to any era. Its not a diss, his #'s from a % standpoint are the SAME. If your taking offense to it then it can only mean your dead set on relying on stats that the experts have left behind. Put it this way, if one guy averages 20 rebounds but the other guy averages 15 and both have the same rebound rate, they are EQUALLY good rebounders.


Ahem, Wilt did not benefit from the style of play in the 1960s. Fast paced BB is not something 7 '2 guys are interested in. Guards benefited.

You do know Wilt ran the court like a gazelle right? In fact track was his first love. Thats like saying Amare doesnt like to run (yes Wilt was a better runner than him). The fast pace benefits runners, which if you look at the league at large included everyone, and it does run up rebounding #'s. Its not like Wilt only amassed rebounds in the half court. And its not like teams just took the very first shot available every possession down, the quicker pace was a result of more secondary breaks and early half court offense opportunities.



In fact, that is what made Jordan so damn special. In an era with diminishing possessions and hand checking and really physical D, he scored at very high rates with very high FG%.

Wilt disagrees with you, he famously boasted that the league lacked scorers as the reason nobody was approaching his scoring tallies. Completely ignoring the diminished possessions and the practice of not playing players 48MPG.
And you know what he said about MJ right? Something along the lines of, in my day they had to change the rules to make the game harder for me, nowadays they are changing the rules to help your game.

And I dont really care how physical the D was as its coming from less physically imposing players (imo), more importantly it wasnt as advanced as the 98-2005 era, nowadays its more comparable but lots of coaches (who have coached both eras) have agreed in saying defense is much more intricate now. Spacing has become so much more important because of complex zone schemes that were considered illegal in MJ's day and the overall length and ground covered by todays athletes. Overall, lets not act like the league is vastly different. It has evolved, MJ would still be MJ, no need to hype up his era.


So the fact, Wilt piled up stats in a fast pace game playing lots of minutes means the dude was a HORSE OF A PLAYER keeping upwhile playing BASELINE TO BASELINE for every game of the season.
Wait I thought you were saying Wilt doesnt benefit from that eras style? That it wouldnt help a bigmans game to watch all that frenetic pace but now your saying he runs baseline to baseline every game?
I like me some hyperbole but the truth is, if you transplanted WIlt to todays game he doesnt get to play 48MPG (coaches and GM's have this theory that miles matter), its also more taxing to play that many minutes in this league given the grind that comes from playing halfcourt basketball against bulkier players as opposed to free running.


LeBron played PF one game and put up stats and folks are tickling their tonsils with his unit. Wilt did that his entire career and played the entire game with no rest.

LOL.
Except that Wilt didnt do that his entire career, hes had better games than Bron but to ignore context with regards to his league rates is folly, more possessions does not mean less opportunities for rebounding. And in the case of Wilt, I highly doubt it leads a significant difference in usage considering his history.

llemon
05-22-2012, 04:55 PM
The fact that you're trying to take away from LeBrons performance by comparing two un-comparable eras of basketball is just laughable. The fact that you think Wilt had to exert anywhere near as much energy as LeBron on a nightly basis is just laughable.

Did you Wilt play?

Do you have any idea how much more physical the game was in the 60's, and no player was beat upon more than Wilt?

the avenger
05-23-2012, 03:49 PM
Sarcasm is a lost cause sometimes. :facepalm:My bad:D

Hawkeye15
05-23-2012, 03:51 PM
Over our heads? Nah.

But your posts really mean nothing, as there were so many other aspects of the game tha you failed to mention.

Much, much more physical play (both Wilt and Alcindor said they considered getting out of the pro game in their rookie seasons).

So many more home and home games, with the mode of transportation being a bus.

The game is certainly different, but let's think about all the differences.

And all the players at that time played under the same conditions. So? It doesn't change the fact that by a simple equation, we can equalize possessions.

llemon
05-23-2012, 03:55 PM
And all the players at that time played under the same conditions. So? It doesn't change the fact that by a simple equation, we can equalize possessions.

You can equalize what you like, but you can't equalize the style of the game and the rule changes.

Hawkeye15
05-23-2012, 04:15 PM
You can equalize what you like, but you can't equalize the style of the game and the rule changes.

of course not. Can you imagine what Wilt would average today if he could shoot a free throw? He was hacked every possession. But nobody plays 47.2 mpg at that pace, hence why his per game numbers will never even be sniffed. That is why I bring up pace/minute equalization. It's the best we have to statistically compare, and we can only plug in factors that are mathematical, because style of play, rule changes, travel, schedule, strength of competition, etc, become much harder to factor in.

Hawkeye15
05-23-2012, 04:15 PM
llemon, I really never understand your opinion on these matters. Would you prefer to not compare era's at all?

iseelahk
05-23-2012, 04:32 PM
of course not. Can you imagine what Wilt would average today if he could shoot a free throw? He was hacked every possession. But nobody plays 47.2 mpg at that pace, hence why his per game numbers will never even be sniffed. That is why I bring up pace/minute equalization. It's the best we have to statistically compare, and we can only plug in factors that are mathematical, because style of play, rule changes, travel, schedule, strength of competition, etc, become much harder to factor in.

This is why if you listen to older people and they talk about Wilt they do so in reverential tones. Only guy close to it is Jordan.

You really think from the minute LeBron gets up in the morning till he goes to bed he has to expend as much energy as Wilt did? Let us see,

Wilt had the KKK barking at him.
Wilt had REFs who allowed him to get hacked.
Wilt had horrid travel accomodations.
Wilt played in a league that was not as diluted as today.
Wilt played more minutes
Wilt exceled in a "Guard" friendly era with lots of possessions
Wilt was a 30/20 guy most of his career
Wilt had to climb over the great Celtic Teams with like 5 HOFers
Wilt was paid lots less even inflation adjusted
Wilt had coaches who could push him around

What does LeBron deal with that is harder than Wilt???????? So not only was it tougher for Wilt but he also put up better numbers.

llemon
05-23-2012, 04:37 PM
llemon, I really never understand your opinion on these matters. Would you prefer to not compare era's at all?

Don't mind comparing eras at all. I wasn't the one that brought up 'best playoff game since Baylor'.

But the eras were played in very different manners, as in most sports.

I'm just expressing my opinion, as you are yours.

It's okay for us not to agree.

Hawkeye15
05-23-2012, 04:42 PM
This is why if you listen to older people and they talk about Wilt they do so in reverential tones. Only guy close to it is Jordan.

You really think from the minute LeBron gets up in the morning till he goes to bed he has to expend as much energy as Wilt did? Let us see,

Wilt had the KKK barking at him.
Wilt had REFs who allowed him to get hacked.
Wilt had horrid travel accomodations.
Wilt played in a league that was not as diluted as today.
Wilt played more minutes
Wilt exceled in a "Guard" friendly era with lots of possessions
Wilt was a 30/20 guy most of his career
Wilt had to climb over the great Celtic Teams with like 5 HOFers
Wilt was paid lots less even inflation adjusted
Wilt had coaches who could push him around

What does LeBron deal with that is harder than Wilt???????? So not only was it tougher for Wilt but he also put up better numbers.

No, I don't really think he does deal with it. No athlete does nowadays, they are spoiled babies. There are also much more advanced defenses, comprehensive scouting, zone allowed, etc. Rule changes are inevitable. Which is why I don't attempt to compare era's necessarily, only set the numbers as equal as possible. Besides, my continued point is Wilt's numbers were inflated to a degree. I mean, they are incredible no matter how hard you try and discredit them for any reason. You also have to remember player rankings/evaluations have a LOT more to do with defense now than they did back then.

And dude, I am only 36 and I am starting to speak of Bird, Magic, and Moses in those tones. I can't imagine how bad I will be in 20 years.

Hawkeye15
05-23-2012, 04:43 PM
Don't mind comparing eras at all. I wasn't the one that brought up 'best playoff game since Baylor'.

But the eras were played in very different manners, as in most sports.

I'm just expressing my opinion, as you are yours.

It's okay for us not to agree.

no llemon, we need to agree. Let's talk this out until we run everyone else away.

Raph12
05-23-2012, 04:44 PM
That was not the greatest statistical game of all time, but it may rank among some of the best... I don't know what's being used to measure the statistical production/efficiency compared to other games throughout history, but I doubt it was the best ever.