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View Full Version : Chris Paul: 7 Seasons, 2 Series Wins ... Discuss



kblo247
05-21-2012, 01:30 AM
Why do you think that is for a player coined the best pg in the league? Why isn't he called out like LeBron or labeled the Melo to Deron? Why is he excused for being hurt yet winners like Kobe or Wade aren't when they haven't delivered with talent in the playoffs? Does he own the right to be called the best pg in the league truly when he hasn't elevated his teams like Nash or Kidd?

DISCUSS!

greg_ory_2005
05-21-2012, 01:31 AM
This is too many Clipper threads. My head is gonna explode.

kblo247
05-21-2012, 01:33 AM
I seriously want to know why he is held as accountable as other players and doesn't catch the flack (besides for flopping) for not elevating his teams and "making others better" enough to win when guys like Melo, Deron, LeBron, Kobe, and Wade would. You can't be a superstar with his postseason record and his trend of extraordinary and lame playoff game, which averages out to decent.

PleaseBeNice
05-21-2012, 01:33 AM
Flopped out the playoffs again. Inb4 "what about your team"?

mdm692
05-21-2012, 01:33 AM
He played for the hornets. Close thread.

Avenged
05-21-2012, 01:33 AM
Because he hasn't had the talent like they had?

KB-Pau-DH2012
05-21-2012, 01:35 AM
I think Rajon Rondo is the best PG in the league, but that's for another discussion.

All I know is that instead of creating a Dynasty and a lottery team, Stern's VETO FOR BASKETBALL REASONS created two mediocre playoff squads whose ceiling is the 2nd round.

The Lakers would have been better off with Chris Paul, and Chris Paul would have been better off with the Lakers.


**** U STERN! **** U CUBAN! **** U GILBERT! **** U MJ! **** U SMALL MARKET OWNERS WHO CAN OWN ****! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Evolution23
05-21-2012, 01:36 AM
Hornets. Tyson Chandler, Davis West, Peja. Decent lineup but not contending.

blastmasta26
05-21-2012, 01:41 AM
It's based on supporting cast. Chris Paul has taken his teams farther than they should be with the Hornets a couple times, and it's not his fault at all that he hasn't had tremendous post season success.

Cfrey
05-21-2012, 01:41 AM
rajon rondo is not the best pg in the league no

deron williams say hello

kblo247
05-21-2012, 01:42 AM
Because he hasn't had the talent like they had?

But the guy just like LeBron got what he wanted with the Hornets. He asked for Peja and Tyson, to go with himself and West and they paid out their behind even though it wasn't financially sound to give it to him. He had a good year with them and then fell off a cliff. He had the talent he asked for and didn't make any more noise than that Believe Warriors team did. leBron at least made the conference finals and was in the playoffs routinely with the squad he hand picked in Cleveland.

He played well last year in the playoffs some of the series, and other moments just went invisible over trying to take it over in that first round.

This round he got smoked by Parker like a bacon breakfast. People can say well he was hurt, but they didn't excuse Kobe being hurt last year or needing knee surgery in 2010. They aren't making excuses for Wade now despite his knee being bad enough to need to be drained.

Melo gets flack as did Deron, but truth is their squads were never healthy. They never consistently had Martin, Boozer, Okur, Kirkelnko, Nene, and so on available to play with them every day. They still led their team to better records and better playoff runs by reaching the conference finals. Yet those two are though of as inferior and overrated, wile not being true superstars.

He got the label of best pg in the league and has had it for years, but isn't that something that would apply to guys like Kidd and Nash who turned teams around to contenders? Doesn't it apply to a Rondo or Tony who have led their teams to titles and are able to impose their will on a game, consistently, not 1 game or quarter and then go passive a next game and make you say why is he holding back?

It isn't a case of NOT having talent this year as the Clips had that. They had his small guards who he loves to play in the back court with. They had the forwards. They had the shot locker, the rebounder, the low post defender, and they had what guys were calling a top 5 PF.

I'm just saying why does he get glossed over? Is he just more likable sorta like a Shaq when he see him compared to the others?

SpaceJamJordans
05-21-2012, 01:44 AM
Because his team sucks

kblo247
05-21-2012, 01:46 AM
Could this just be a Sam Casell effect as well? One year surprising teams by being good and then the next year not being relevant or making the playoffs like years ago?

Wade>You
05-21-2012, 01:47 AM
This is the best team taht Chris Paul has ever been on, they lost to a great Spurs team.

Hellcrooner
05-21-2012, 01:48 AM
Why do you think that is for a player coined the best pg in the league? Why isn't he called out like LeBron or labeled the Melo to Deron? Why is he excused for being hurt yet winners like Kobe or Wade aren't when they haven't delivered with talent in the playoffs? Does he own the right to be called the best pg in the league truly when he hasn't elevated his teams like Nash or Kidd?

DISCUSS!

has he had the kind of help Nash or kidd or duncan or KObe or wade or shaq have had?

GREATNESS ONE
05-21-2012, 01:48 AM
Lol Kblo was itching to make this thread.

kblo247
05-21-2012, 01:49 AM
He was up 2-0 with hca and the second seed vs a worse variation of the Spurs and Parker roasted him then too on their way to coming back to win the series

Then there was that Nugget series that got Scott fired

Chronz
05-21-2012, 01:50 AM
I think it has to do with the fact that his teams greatly overachieve, if you want to knock him for his durability and inability to play through injuries thats one thing, but when healthy, the guy is the best PG.

popo85
05-21-2012, 01:51 AM
Your right the bashing James gets for not winning a ring yet Paul not getting the same criticism. That 08' Hornets teams was better then most teams James had in Cleveland yet LeBron took his team deep in the playoffs.

Becks2307
05-21-2012, 01:55 AM
it has to do with the fact that people actually like CP3. /thread

kblo247
05-21-2012, 01:55 AM
I think it has to do with the fact that his teams greatly overachieve, if you want to knock him for his durability and inability to play through injuries thats one thing, but when healthy, the guy is the best PG.

But like Barkley has said before "Everyone is going to be hurt come the playoffs"

It isn't an excuse. Isiah on one leg took over, Kobe on one knee led his team through the finals. Bird with a bad back won titles. MJ, Hakeem, Shaq, TM, and others have all been hurt but nutted up and left it all out there and dominated while tired, sick, and injured because that is what a superstar does.

A superstar doesn't become average when they get hurt if they can stand up and play. He became average. It makes no sense and is no excuse when you are supposed to the best at what you do, which is what people have labeled him as being, and a top 5 player

Do you also excuse the Spurs choke job and Nuggets series that he could have taken over if he was aggressive?

ThunderousDemon
05-21-2012, 01:56 AM
Your right the bashing James gets for not winning a ring yet Paul not getting the same criticism. That 08' Hornets teams was better then most teams James had in Cleveland yet LeBron took his team deep in the playoffs.

Have you forgotten about that one hour special Lebron and ESPN had and also,"Not one, not two, not three , not four, not five, not six, not seven".

kblo247
05-21-2012, 01:57 AM
it has to do with the fact that people actually like CP3. /thread

I do think that's actually plausible. He is a little man, literally, so the more common fan gives him a pass than a swing or big not getting it done

Punk
05-21-2012, 01:57 AM
Lol at the excuses in this thread. Fact is he is criticized unfairly compared to the level Melo, Deron gets.

I'm a Paul fan btw. I still don't get how the Hornets roster makes a difference when he had those teams with a Top 5 record and they always fail down the stretch and face a better team. Yet, these things happen with Melo and Deron and they get the "not a winner" tag and a selfish chucker tag.

kblo247
05-21-2012, 01:59 AM
@ Chronz, I know you are a longtime Clippers fan.

So do you think Paul will lead the team to a better season next year, or do you think it will be just like the year Cassell came and they shocked everyone and had a good year but couldn't repeat it the next season when teams got up to play them?

ThunderousDemon
05-21-2012, 02:00 AM
I don't blame Deron for being a chucker, just look at his supporting cast

Chronz
05-21-2012, 02:00 AM
He was up 2-0 with hca and the second seed vs a worse variation of the Spurs and Parker roasted him then too on their way to coming back to win the series

Then there was that Nugget series that got Scott fired
Didnt the Spurs injure David West and then Manu got hurt towards the end as well? Either way those teams were pretty evenly matched so saying a worse variation of the Spurs doesnt change the fact that CP3 got his team to overachieve. I mean by seeding, he nearly won as many games as the Lakers did, and Kobe had far more talent alongside him. You cant blame CP3 for maximizing his teams potential but unable to continue that in the playoffs. Its a different animal and the better teams will win through.



Could this just be a Sam Casell effect as well? One year surprising teams by being good and then the next year not being relevant or making the playoffs like years ago?
Cassell made every team better so I hope so.

Chronz
05-21-2012, 02:02 AM
This is the best team taht Chris Paul has ever been on, they lost to a great Spurs team.

I dont know where I stand on that one, on one hand those teams were better in part because he himself was better, but if you eliminate himself from the equation I think its pretty arguable.

Punk
05-21-2012, 02:05 AM
I don't blame Deron for being a chucker, just look at his supporting cast

Ummm....Carlos Boozer, Ronnie Brewer, Kyle Korver, Memhet Okur, AK47 and Jerry Sloan. Al Jefferson, Paul Milsap, Raja Bell, Hayward, Ak47.

That is a better team than Melo and Paul had combined and he couldn't get them over the top.

People need to quit the crap.

Chronz
05-21-2012, 02:06 AM
@ Chronz, I know you are a longtime Clippers fan.

So do you think Paul will lead the team to a better season next year, or do you think it will be just like the year Cassell came and they shocked everyone and had a good year but couldn't repeat it the next season when teams got up to play them?
No, mostly because CP3 isnt 37 years old. Blake isnt likely to regress ala Brand. DJ hasnt shown the year to year inconsistency that Kaman has, and the depth is better. My only concern is Butler, hes reminding me of Cuttino in that he could be more of a hindrance to our flexibility than his play is a benefit to us.

kblo247
05-21-2012, 02:06 AM
I would argue that the Clipper start pool was better overall, but Paul himself was MUCH better when they were the 2nd seed vs the Spurs.

I'm not really sure if he is better this year compared to last year, as he walked his way thorough last year early and was his normal injured and dinged up self this year but played harder more often

b@llhog24
05-21-2012, 02:07 AM
Why do you think that is for a player coined the best pg in the league? Why isn't he called out like LeBron or labeled the Melo to Deron? Why is he excused for being hurt yet winners like Kobe or Wade aren't when they haven't delivered with talent in the playoffs? Does he own the right to be called the best pg in the league truly when he hasn't elevated his teams like Nash or Kidd?

DISCUSS!

Lol he said he was going to make this thread. :laugh2:

kblo247
05-21-2012, 02:07 AM
No, mostly because CP3 isnt 37 years old. Blake isnt likely to regress ala Brand. DJ hasnt shown the year to year inconsistency that Kaman has, and the depth is better. My only concern is Butler, hes reminding me of Cuttino in that he could be more of a hindrance to our flexibility than his play is a benefit to us.

Are kenyon and Reggie free agents? I know Young is. I'm not sure on Butler either because I know he can play, but he stays hurt a lot and that isn't what you need when Paul has never played a full year if I'm not mistaken

Sadds The Gr8
05-21-2012, 02:09 AM
Lol at the excuses in this thread. Fact is he is criticized unfairly compared to the level Melo, Deron gets.

I'm a Paul fan btw. I still don't get how the Hornets roster makes a difference when he had those teams with a Top 5 record and they always fail down the stretch and face a better team. Yet, these things happen with Melo and Deron and they get the "not a winner" tag and a selfish chucker tag.

CP3 actually improves his game during the playoffs, while Melo's game gets worse in the playoffs.

And I haven't seen anybody criticize Deron's playoff performances...

greg_ory_2005
05-21-2012, 02:10 AM
Ummm....Carlos Boozer, Ronnie Brewer, Kyle Korver, Memhet Okur, AK47 and Jerry Sloan. Al Jefferson, Paul Milsap, Raja Bell, Hayward, Ak47.

That is a better team than Melo and Paul had combined and he couldn't get them over the top.

People need to quit the crap.

I guess he's just talking about the Nets.

Becks2307
05-21-2012, 02:10 AM
Lol at the excuses in this thread. Fact is he is criticized unfairly compared to the level Melo, Deron gets.



Its really simple. People like CP3.

People think Lebron is a unclench douche
Melo is a happy chucker

I don't know what kind of hate Deron gets, i never hear this.


Cp3 (apart from flopping) is looked at as the best PG in the league, never has any issues in the media, and is very unselfish = very likable player, less likely to be heavily criticized.

kblo247
05-21-2012, 02:11 AM
Lol he said he was going to make this thread. :laugh2:

I made the thread because I hear Kobe, Wade, LeBron (before Miami), Melo, Deron (before the nets), Dwight (before this year), Nash, Dirk, and many others including Tim last year get flack for not getting it done. I don't get why he can't have the scrutiny or why he gets a pass because he is hurt when others haven't and instead get a they suck, are old, washed up, a choker, and so on.

But yeah I couldn't wait to ask why

It has to be little man syndrome.

Chronz
05-21-2012, 02:11 AM
But like Barkley has said before "Everyone is going to be hurt come the playoffs"
Doesnt mean all injuries are treated equally. Again if you want to blame him for being unable to play through it, it wouldnt be the first time. But when relatively healthy, hes still the best.


It isn't an excuse. Isiah on one leg took over, Kobe on one knee led his team through the finals. Bird with a bad back won titles. MJ, Hakeem, Shaq, TM, and others have all been hurt but nutted up and left it all out there and dominated while tired, sick, and injured because that is what a superstar does.

Bird was unable to win once the back got severe, have you seen Kobe play through back spasms? The dude becomes a turnover machine. Shaqs injuries prevented him from winning titles. Im not impressed by Kobes injuries in comparison, at least he could get a knee drained to eventually help his game and had better support in place to ease the transition. CP3 was injured, his sidekick was injured (though he came on strong in the end), Butler was injured, they were already down Billups. I mean its not an apples to apples comparison.


A superstar doesn't become average when they get hurt if they can stand up and play. He became average. It makes no sense and is no excuse when you are supposed to the best at what you do, which is what people have labeled him as being, and a top 5 player

Depends on the severity of the injury, I dont live in a world of absolutes and extreme thinking.


Do you also excuse the Spurs choke job and Nuggets series that he could have taken over if he was aggressive?

He was injured vs the Nuggs too if not then yea he did get locked down and the Nuggs were the better team, and what choke vs the Spurs?

Chronz
05-21-2012, 02:17 AM
I would argue that the Clipper start pool was better overall, but Paul himself was MUCH better when they were the 2nd seed vs the Spurs.

I'm not really sure if he is better this year compared to last year, as he walked his way thorough last year early and was his normal injured and dinged up self this year but played harder more often

Players tend to play harder for their first year in a new situation, it may have contributed to his injuries so I would gladly settle for less wins if it means a revamped Paul in the playoffs. I know he doesnt like the knee brace but I think it was smart to saddle him in the regular season with a clunky machine, only to take the weights off in the playoffs.

Still he played better, all he needs to do is stay healthier.

kblo247
05-21-2012, 02:18 AM
The thing for me is Paul is only getting older as well. He can be relatively healthy, but at the end of the day this is still a guy who missed a lot of games with knee and ankle injuries in his career. Enough knee and ankle injuries, or leg injuries to fever stop him from playing a full season of ball. It becomes a question of what ou define as relatively healthy for him, 75%?

I think he could be healthier and find a middle ground .. New brace, Germany, etc.

The thing is do you think all it takes is his health for him to be that much more aggressive like how he closed out the Griz for example in OT with consitency, or is it not in his nature as a pass first player?

Chronz
05-21-2012, 02:19 AM
Lol at the excuses in this thread. Fact is he is criticized unfairly compared to the level Melo, Deron gets.
Melo doesnt get enough criticism IMO, Deron got way too much love during the years CP3 was on lesser teams or hurt altogether so Im glad hes getting crap now.


I'm a Paul fan btw. I still don't get how the Hornets roster makes a difference when he had those teams with a Top 5 record and they always fail down the stretch and face a better team. Yet, these things happen with Melo and Deron and they get the "not a winner" tag and a selfish chucker tag.

The difference lay in the level of play and what they got out of their rosters.

b@llhog24
05-21-2012, 02:22 AM
No you have a right to make a thread is just I remember you saying you were going to and I thought you were joking. But to try to answer the question; Itís a mixture of playing him being injured, not having sufficient roster support, and just basically going up against superior teams.

07-08-He played magnificent you honestly can't blame him for losing that series.

08-09-He just had a bad playoff series.

09-10-Injuries couldn't get his team in the playoffs.

10-11-He himself played well again but he lost to the supieor team.

11-12-Billups got injured and they were forced to start Randy Foye, ****ING RANDY FOYE!!!! His team was also filled with a myriad of injuries.

Cp3 himself raises his game in the playoffs (so long as he is healthy), he gets the most out of team of nobodies aside from maybe Lebron or Dwight Howard. Iíll say give the Clippers another year to see how far he can carry them.

NetsPaint
05-21-2012, 02:23 AM
He's not the same player now. I don't care who his supporting cast is, he's not the same player. If you don't see that then go to YouTube and watch his videos from 2008/2009 and even the Playoffs last year. He still has nice looking stats, but he's not the same.

cutiepie80
05-21-2012, 02:24 AM
It's not his fault, he has never had a superstar to work with and for people saying Griffin is they are nuts.

naps
05-21-2012, 02:25 AM
He NEVER had true contending teams. It's a team game after all. One player can only do so much. This is probably the best team he has ever had and I can't blame him for this loss. I called it like 95% people that it would be a clean sweep. Spurs are unbelievably balanced. I don't see any team beating them. Only OKC and full strength Miami can challenge them.

Chronz
05-21-2012, 02:25 AM
The thing for me is Paul is only getting older as well. He can be relatively healthy, but at the end of the day this is still a guy who missed a lot of games with knee and ankle injuries in his career. Enough knee and ankle injuries, or leg injuries to fever stop him from playing a full season of ball. It becomes a question of what ou define as relatively healthy for him, 75%?

I think he could be healthier and find a middle ground .. New brace, Germany, etc.
Im not a fan of him going full bore for that very reason, we have to start monitoring his minutes and when he plays alot better. He shouldnt have to close games with the insane efficiency he displays in the 4th, frankly its unfair to expect that of any 1 player and can lead to the team becoming overly reliant on him in the 4th.
I would rather lose more of those games than put him through that. I dont know if its absolutely necessary, maybe its an exercise in futility and nothing we do can alter his health, but Id rather be safe. With the development of Bledsoe, it may become a realistic option without sacrificing wins. Also having a coach with some job security would be nice, Vinny relied on CP3 so much in part because he didnt want to get fired.


The thing is do you think all it takes is his health for him to be that much more aggressive like how he closed out the Griz for example in OT with consitency, or is it not in his nature as a pass first player?
Dont care, he reads defenses as well as ANYONE, and when hes right physically he possesses the skill and talent to make defenses pay. His teammates could make it easier on him as well.

Chronz
05-21-2012, 02:27 AM
I think Rajon Rondo is the best PG in the league, but that's for another discussion.

All I know is that instead of creating a Dynasty and a lottery team, Stern's VETO FOR BASKETBALL REASONS created two mediocre playoff squads whose ceiling is the 2nd round.

The Lakers would have been better off with Chris Paul, and Chris Paul would have been better off with the Lakers.


**** U STERN! **** U CUBAN! **** U GILBERT! **** U MJ! **** U SMALL MARKET OWNERS WHO CAN OWN ****! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Rondo? LMFAO. At least your not the kind of fan who only focuses on how PG's play his team. But you do agree, he could NEVER in a million years do to the Lakers what Russy and CP3 have done to them.

Bostondiehard
05-21-2012, 02:31 AM
Paul is def top 3 and will have a great year next year molding and finding that mojo with the Clips. Can't believe he's played 7 seasons already.. People think that he's still a young'n but 28 is creepin up on him as 23 year old Westbrook is comin for that #1 PG spot.

Chronz
05-21-2012, 02:33 AM
Also, this is the worst possible time you could have made this thread, the man already willed his inferior banged up crew past the Grizz, its not like the Clips didnt reach new ground. The man gave us everything he had, even if he played poorly, given his injuries and how they loaded up on him, Im proud he made a serious effort. And the man I saw dribbling the last few weeks wasnt the same dribbler I saw at the start of the year, his handle is a HUGE part of his greatness. Hes suppose to be an incredibly low turnover guy with the burst to get where he wants without overly relying on flashy crossovers, just efficient movements. That wasnt possible with his injuries.

Ive SEEN Melo get locked down by the simplest of schemes and display an inability to keep his head in the moment. Thats a huge difference in how they have gotten locked down throughout their careers.

Melo has come a long way tho, he was surprisingly better vs Miami than I thought he would be.

smith&wesson
05-21-2012, 02:55 AM
Why do you think that is for a player coined the best pg in the league? Why isn't he called out like LeBron or labeled the Melo to Deron? Why is he excused for being hurt yet winners like Kobe or Wade aren't when they haven't delivered with talent in the playoffs? Does he own the right to be called the best pg in the league truly when he hasn't elevated his teams like Nash or Kidd?

DISCUSS!

i stand corrected. he is still the best pg though.

KniCks4LiFe
05-21-2012, 02:58 AM
CP3 has been on one playoff team, this yr. Every other team assembled in NOH has been near bottom of the barrel. It's a miracle he did what he could w/ the Hornets and the Clippers went up to the 2nd rd. in yr.1 Are we serious w/ this thread?

JJ_JKidd
05-21-2012, 03:09 AM
has he had the kind of help Nash or kidd or duncan or KObe or wade or shaq have had?

Kidd had who?

Nets:

Richard Jefferson
Vince Carter
Todd MacCulloch

Dallas:

Dirk

Punk
05-21-2012, 03:22 AM
CP3 has been on one playoff team, this yr. Every other team assembled in NOH has been near bottom of the barrel. It's a miracle he did what he could w/ the Hornets and the Clippers went up to the 2nd rd. in yr.1 Are we serious w/ this thread?

A team of David West, Tyson Chandler, Peja, Paul is bottom of the barrel?

Melo and Paul played under some crappy teams early in their career. But both had a season or two with great pieces.

KingPosey
05-21-2012, 03:28 AM
This was the Clips first season together, CP3 and Blake were hurt in this series. Blake was in his 2nd year, and will improve. They lost Mr. Big Shot who changes everything in a playoff series. Butler was also playing hurt. They have holes to fill as well on that roster. They have time and will improve and it was still a great showing for a first year, lockout filled, injury filled season.

Not too mention they lost to San ANtonio. That is a ****ing good team.

KingPosey
05-21-2012, 03:31 AM
Why do you think that is for a player coined the best pg in the league? Why isn't he called out like LeBron or labeled the Melo to Deron? Why is he excused for being hurt yet winners like Kobe or Wade aren't when they haven't delivered with talent in the playoffs? Does he own the right to be called the best pg in the league truly when he hasn't elevated his teams like Nash or Kidd?
DISCUSS!

That guy has elevated teams for entire seasons, dont give me that, cuz im not buyin it.

sharqstealth
05-21-2012, 04:07 AM
This is the NBA, and that's why winning is team effort and is not done individually. Even if you are arguably the best player in your position doesn't guarantee you winning. Just look at the Spurs, they are the perfect example of a winning team, even less known guys like Danny Green and Kawhi are important in their nucleus. As for the Clippers they're only as good as the Hornets team CP had... I wouldn't be really surprise if CP leaves after next season.

KniCks4LiFe
05-21-2012, 04:57 AM
A team of David West, Tyson Chandler, Peja, Paul is bottom of the barrel?

Melo and Paul played under some crappy teams early in their career. But both had a season or two with great pieces.

Peja who wasn't Sactown's Peja, it was Peja end of the line Peja. David West was what a rookie? 2 yrs?? Tyson Chandler wasn't offense anything w/o CP3. Who did CP3 go up against? What proven playoff player that could still play at the moment did he ball with? Com'on homie.

And please enough w/ Melo, I'd deal Melo for CP3 straight up too. Off to work. Laterz.

thenaj17
05-21-2012, 05:25 AM
But the guy just like LeBron got what he wanted with the Hornets. He asked for Peja and Tyson, to go with himself and West and they paid out their behind even though it wasn't financially sound to give it to him. He had a good year with them and then fell off a cliff. He had the talent he asked for and didn't make any more noise than that Believe Warriors team did. leBron at least made the conference finals and was in the playoffs routinely with the squad he hand picked in Cleveland.


Not exactly Garnett and Allen is it? Peja has no defence and Chandler's offence is zero

He played well last year in the playoffs some of the series, and other moments just went invisible over trying to take it over in that first round.

This round he got smoked by Parker like a bacon breakfast. People can say well he was hurt, but they didn't excuse Kobe being hurt last year or needing knee surgery in 2010. They aren't making excuses for Wade now despite his knee being bad enough to need to be drained.

Melo gets flack as did Deron, but truth is their squads were never healthy. They never consistently had Martin, Boozer, Okur, Kirkelnko, Nene, and so on available to play with them every day. They still led their team to better records and better playoff runs by reaching the conference finals. Yet those two are though of as inferior and overrated, wile not being true superstars.

He got the label of best pg in the league and has had it for years, but isn't that something that would apply to guys like Kidd and Nash who turned teams around to contenders?

How many titles has Nash played for??? He has never been on a contending team even with Joe Johnson, Marion, Stoudamire and Barbosa. Kidd only got 1 ring last year and 1 finals appearance with Carter and Jefferson. By contending team, i mean finals or better. All the years in the league between these 2 and they have 2 finals appearances between them. Your argument is flawed at best, and fraudulent at worst.

Doesn't it apply to a Rondo or Tony who have led their teams to titles and are able to impose their will on a game, consistently, not 1 game or quarter and then go passive a next game and make you say why is he holding back?

Rondo didn't lead anything. Pierce, Garnett and Allen led that team and Rondo played tag along. It doesn't count as him leading when he was the 4th best player on the team at the time. Tony Parker is a very good PG but has had Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobli. That's 3 definite HOF'ers and 2 borderline HOF'ers between them.


It isn't a case of NOT having talent this year as the Clips had that. They had his small guards who he loves to play in the back court with. They had the forwards. They had the shot locker, the rebounder, the low post defender, and they had what guys were calling a top 5 PF.

What low post defender? Blake? Jordan? Pfft, give me a break. K Martin only plays 20 mins a game.

Top 5 PF? Where? Last time i checked Nowitzki, Love, Pau, Bosh, Stoudamire, Z Randolph, L Aldridge played for other teams. Blake can't shoot for shiz so Clippers can't spread the floor very well, isn't a good defender (man or help) and isn't particularly effective in the post.

I think you're giving Paul a very hard time when the best 2 players he has had are David West and Blake Griffin.

I'm just saying why does he get glossed over? Is he just more likable sorta like a Shaq when he see him compared to the others?

If Paul had Chauncey available and Caron Butler at full fitness, then it may have warranted more stick

Alayla
05-21-2012, 06:39 AM
By this logic so many great players are dicounted or thrown under the bus but the fact is 1 player cannot win by themselfs cp3 took a lottery team. To the 2nd round and lost to a team with a championship pedargee you just sound like a bitter lbj fan op the the reason lbj is scurtenized is he was meant to be one of the best players in history and has been known as the best player in the nba for like 4 years and only this season has we played like he is but now he has wade and bosh if u can lose to the mavs with a top 5 player and one of the nbas better allstar pfs... well you get the point haters gonna hate I guess lbj. T mac vc nash iverson (barring 2001) sprewell stockton malone kobe (in 06) wade (barring the ship year) Jordan (before pippin) Barkely (barring his time as a sixer) and just about every other great player the only ones I can think of who without help did somthing like getting to the finals or even out of the 2nd without help are AI (sort of) Wade LBJ and that's really it very few players can rise up alone and weather a storm 1 man teams very rarely work in the nba paul can't contend with crap around him. Some stars can't contend with Good help around them paul is as close as most players get to the former ps don't even get my started on ray allen KG and perice yeah... somehow they get a pass right?

Alayla
05-21-2012, 06:53 AM
Kidd had who?

Nets:

Richard Jefferson
Vince Carter
Todd MacCulloch

Dallas:

Dirk

Yeah because Vince carter wasn't a top 15 player when kidd got him and jefferson was a scrub right?
And dirk isn't a top 40 alltime player
Oh and marion and terry are nobodys too

thekmp211
05-21-2012, 08:00 AM
timmy dunks and the boys.

SAS have bounced CP3's best teams. and teams with pg's as their best rarely go all the way. that's what I see.

justinnum1
05-21-2012, 08:06 AM
I think Rajon Rondo is the best PG in the league, but that's for another discussion.

All I know is that instead of creating a Dynasty and a lottery team, Stern's VETO FOR BASKETBALL REASONS created two mediocre playoff squads whose ceiling is the 2nd round.

The Lakers would have been better off with Chris Paul, and Chris Paul would have been better off with the Lakers.


**** U STERN! **** U CUBAN! **** U GILBERT! **** U MJ! **** U SMALL MARKET OWNERS WHO CAN OWN ****! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
lol

justinnum1
05-21-2012, 08:07 AM
timmy dunks and the boys.

SAS have bounced CP3's best teams. and teams with pg's as their best rarely go all the way. that's what I see.

good point

-Kobe24-TJ19-
05-21-2012, 08:17 AM
he would of won with colby and lakers

Hangtime
05-21-2012, 08:48 AM
SA is just in beast mode right now clicking on all cylinders. Paul's Clips lost to a tremendous team. Give him credit for taking the Clips to the next level. I had them losing to the Grizz in 6. He was the single biggest difference in that series. And he was able to do it with the injury. Parker is twice the point guard Conley is. The Spurs game plan was to stop Paul and force someone else to beat them.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 08:57 AM
Despite having more talent this year than any year outside the one season he had a healthy Hornets roster with Peja, West, Chandler, etc, Paul has had pretty atrocious help around him. Outside of LeBron James, he has done more for his team individually than any other player in the NBA over the past 5 years, outside his injured year.

JordansBulls
05-21-2012, 08:57 AM
He was up 2-0 with hca and the second seed vs a worse variation of the Spurs and Parker roasted him then too on their way to coming back to win the series

Then there was that Nugget series that got Scott fired

The Spurs series yes he should have won especially with HCA in game 7, however the Nuggets series no way, they were a 7 seed.

AIRMAR72
05-21-2012, 10:48 AM
Why do you think that is for a player coined the best pg in the league? Why isn't he called out like LeBron or labeled the Melo to Deron? Why is he excused for being hurt yet winners like Kobe or Wade aren't when they haven't delivered with talent in the playoffs? Does he own the right to be called the best pg in the league truly when he hasn't elevated his teams like Nash or Kidd?

DISCUSS!

rubbish

Hustlenomics
05-21-2012, 11:57 AM
the same criticism other superstars get for failing Chris Paul gets a pass for

Ty Fast
05-21-2012, 12:01 PM
Why do you think that is for a player coined the best pg in the league? Why isn't he called out like LeBron or labeled the Melo to Deron? Why is he excused for being hurt yet winners like Kobe or Wade aren't when they haven't delivered with talent in the playoffs? Does he own the right to be called the best pg in the league truly when he hasn't elevated his teams like Nash or Kidd?

DISCUSS!

hast melo only won 2 playoff rounds as well?

flatbush knicks
05-21-2012, 12:01 PM
well lets hope he gets swept in the first round next year again lol then he'll be crying demanding to play with my boy melo

PurpleJesus
05-21-2012, 12:17 PM
Basketball is a team game.

PurpleJesus
05-21-2012, 12:17 PM
well lets hope he gets swept in the first round next year again lol then he'll be crying demanding to play with my boy melo

yup, cause everyone wants to play in NY...thats why Lebron and Wade went there.

Kashmir13579
05-21-2012, 12:26 PM
yup, cause everyone wants to play in NY...thats why Lebron and Wade went there.

When you have Iman Shumpert, guys like Wade and Lebron become an afterthought.

flatbush knicks
05-21-2012, 12:32 PM
yup, cause everyone wants to play in NY...thats why Lebron and Wade went there.
well buddy his choices are kind of limited right now if he really truly cares about winning a championshp I really don't see any difference between his clippers and hornets teams he's not getting over the hump in la so its pretty much ny or orlando and play with d12 hopefully dwill an d12 get together than what other options will he have an yea lebron an melo would've made a horrible team anyways melo needs a pure pg to be speacial and get to that next level

flatbush knicks
05-21-2012, 12:32 PM
When you have Iman Shumpert, guys like Wade and Lebron become an afterthought.
lol this too

PurpleJesus
05-21-2012, 12:34 PM
well buddy his choices are kind of limited right now if he really truly cares about winning a championshp I really don't see any difference between his clippers and hornets teams he's not getting over the hump in la so its pretty much ny or orlando and play with d12 hopefully dwill an d12 get together than what other options will he have an yea lebron an melo would've made a horrible team anyways melo needs a pure pg to be speacial and get to that next level

How much cap room do the Knicks have? Amare is locked up through 2015, and will be making over $23 million that year...how is it that they are going to get Paul on that roster with Amare and Carmelo both making over 20 million that season?

justinnum1
05-21-2012, 12:35 PM
How much cap room do the Knicks have?

none.

Sly Guy
05-21-2012, 12:35 PM
This is the best team taht Chris Paul has ever been on, they lost to a great Spurs team.

this. His team is simply not good enough to beat the spurs. Watching CP3 this playoffs, you cannot question his heart, hustle, and will to win. Dude was everywhere doing everything.

But outside of a broken handed Caron, who else on that squad was going to create their own shot? Pop is a smart coach, he sees this, plans his strategy accordingly. If your roster is so limited as to the ball has to be in one person's hands all the time to be effective, then nullifying that one player's ability to create a play for teammates makes the game one on five.

flatbush knicks
05-21-2012, 12:39 PM
all we have to do is either trade amare or chandler more likely with lin for cap space but if we traded chandler cp3 would have to take a paycut it just depends on how much he values winning over money

PurpleJesus
05-21-2012, 12:41 PM
all we have to do is either trade amare or chandler more likely with lin for cap space but if we traded chandler cp3 would have to take a paycut it just depends on how much he values winning over money

Knick fans are hillarious.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 12:46 PM
all we have to do is either trade amare or chandler more likely with lin for cap space but if we traded chandler cp3 would have to take a paycut it just depends on how much he values winning over money

Knicks fans need to face reality. You are looking at your team for the next 3 years.

Kashmir13579
05-21-2012, 12:52 PM
Knicks fans need to face reality. You are looking at your team for the next 3 years.

If we can get Lin and Novak's bird-rights we be lookin' good.. :cool:

Otherwise we have limited talent and are in cap hell... again.. :mad:

uprightciti
05-21-2012, 12:54 PM
sign and trade lin for cp3
lol
the clippers

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 12:54 PM
If we can get Lin and Novak's bird-rights we be lookin' good.. :cool:

Otherwise we have limited talent and are in cap hell... again.. :mad:

Even with them, I can't see a challenge to the Bulls, Heat, and the upcoming Pacers for your Knicks. Those 3 make so much money, you basically have limited yourself to perfect minimum decisions outside Lin. And really, Lin needs to show he wasn't the flavor of the month when next season starts.

Amare's deal is SUCH a killer.

Stinkyoutsider
05-21-2012, 01:08 PM
I think Chris Paul doesn't catch the flack because he's a likable guy who does things in the community and is a hard worker. He cares about winning and everyone can like a guy who's all those things.

I can't imagine that it's because of the teams he's had? People were lining up to take it to Lebron, but Lebron in his best Cleveland years had a Shaq who was closing in on retirement and Mo Williams. No better than Paul.

It's tough to win when you don't have any players around you of equal talent. I think Kobe is finding out that the hard way now and Chris Paul is starting to find that out. Griffin is a good player and a great athlete, but he doesn't have the tools to be a star yet. So, Paul goes from the Hornets, where he was the number 1 option and had no teammates of equal skill/ability to the Clippers, which is another team where he has no one of equal talent/ability...

Fnom11
05-21-2012, 01:27 PM
I think Rajon Rondo is the best PG in the league, but that's for another discussion.

All I know is that instead of creating a Dynasty and a lottery team, Stern's VETO FOR BASKETBALL REASONS created two mediocre playoff squads whose ceiling is the 2nd round.

The Lakers would have been better off with Chris Paul, and Chris Paul would have been better off with the Lakers.


**** U STERN! **** U CUBAN! **** U GILBERT! **** U MJ! **** U SMALL MARKET OWNERS WHO CAN OWN ****! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
You realize Stern had little to do with the veto on the CP3 trade right? The owners are 100% at fault.

flatbush knicks
05-21-2012, 01:38 PM
Knicks fans need to face reality. You are looking at your team for the next 3 years.
__________________
your crazy some poor sucker will trade for amare even if we dont get cp3 which unless he signs his extension idk where else he is going to go an amare if not now then in 2 years he is very tradable and dont get me wrong if we sign nash all you haters will be eating your words

Fnom11
05-21-2012, 01:42 PM
your crazy some poor sucker will trade for amare even if we dont get cp3 which unless he signs his extension idk where else he is going to go an amare if not now then in 2 years he is very tradable and dont get me wrong if we sign nash all you haters will be eating your words

So much wrong in one statement.

PurpleJesus
05-21-2012, 01:44 PM
your crazy some poor sucker will trade for amare even if we dont get cp3 which unless he signs his extension idk where else he is going to go an amare if not now then in 2 years he is very tradable and dont get me wrong if we sign nash all you haters will be eating your words

so wait, now its Nash that you guys are getting? I thought you were getting Chris Paul?
And Amare is not very tradeable...at all.

Kashmir13579
05-21-2012, 01:45 PM
Even with them, I can't see a challenge to the Bulls, Heat, and the upcoming Pacers for your Knicks. Those 3 make so much money, you basically have limited yourself to perfect minimum decisions outside Lin. And really, Lin needs to show he wasn't the flavor of the month when next season starts.

Amare's deal is SUCH a killer.

Amare's deal has been a killer since day 1... But theres a reason they play the games... On record, I think Lin will be a top 10 pg. A full training camp and season with a set-roster will be a breathe of fresh air... The revolving door policy of the Knicks has been a killer. Like i said, if we can retain Lin and Novak i will be happy with where we stand... And i DO think we can challenge the teams you listed. Can we stay this good defensively is the biggest question. 'Melo just needs to put his money where his mouth is and we be alright.

Cal827
05-21-2012, 01:47 PM
your crazy some poor sucker will trade for amare even if we dont get cp3 which unless he signs his extension idk where else he is going to go an amare if not now then in 2 years he is very tradable and dont get me wrong if we sign nash all you haters will be eating your words

This is almost, sig quote worthy on how much fail is in this thread... Who the hell is gonna absorb a full 20 million contract without sending crap back :laugh:

flatbush knicks
05-21-2012, 01:49 PM
So much wrong in one statement.

worry about your own team fam and getting out the 2nd round before you start talking **** cuz soon you guys are going to be in the same position as us

flatbush knicks
05-21-2012, 01:54 PM
so wait, now its Nash that you guys are getting? I thought you were getting Chris Paul?
And Amare is not very tradeable...at all.
no genius if we get nash we dont need cp3 right now cuz amare will start beasting on the league again and don't get it twisted cp3 WILL BE BEGGING TO PLAY WITH MELO WHEN HE GETS KNOCKED OUT THE PLAYOFFS NEXT YEAR

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 01:58 PM
Amare's deal has been a killer since day 1... But theres a reason they play the games... On record, I think Lin will be a top 10 pg. A full training camp and season with a set-roster will be a breathe of fresh air... The revolving door policy of the Knicks has been a killer. Like i said, if we can retain Lin and Novak i will be happy with where we stand... And i DO think we can challenge the teams you listed. Can we stay this good defensively is the biggest question. 'Melo just needs to put his money where his mouth is and we be alright.

I need to see more of Lin to buy the top 10 PG thing. Defensively especially. I also like Woodson, but he has a limited offensive playbook with an offensive oriented roster, outside Shumpert (going to miss most if not the majority of next season) and Chandler. Amare's knees will get worse and worse.

Fans have been waiting for Melo to show up consistently for 82+ for 8 seasons now. I just personally think the Knicks kind of hamstringed themselves, and for them to be able to challenge the Heat, Bulls, and Pacers, they need unexpected contributions from guys you don't expect a lot out of.

The Knicks are relevant again, and it could happen. But the Amare deal is a franchise killer when you have a 2nd tier star also locked up for so much dough.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 01:59 PM
your crazy some poor sucker will trade for amare even if we dont get cp3 which unless he signs his extension idk where else he is going to go an amare if not now then in 2 years he is very tradable and dont get me wrong if we sign nash all you haters will be eating your words

Please tell me why anyone would trade for Amare before the trade deadline in the last year of his deal.

PurpleJesus
05-21-2012, 02:04 PM
no genius if we get nash we dont need cp3 right now cuz amare will start beasting on the league again and don't get it twisted cp3 WILL BE BEGGING TO PLAY WITH MELO WHEN HE GETS KNOCKED OUT THE PLAYOFFS NEXT YEAR

why would CP3 beg to play for the Knicks when his team gets knocked out, but Melo won't beg to play for another team when the Knicks get knocked out?

flatbush knicks
05-21-2012, 02:07 PM
Please tell me why anyone would trade for Amare before the trade deadline in the last year of his deal.

do you know anything about the buisness side of things well my friend let me enlighten you ITS CALLED CAPSPACEi'm not saying we will get great value but because of this new cba teams are going to be reluctant to spend alot of money idk even know if the knicks would do it but we could get some good players from a team just looking for a salary dump

Fnom11
05-21-2012, 02:07 PM
worry about your own team fam and getting out the 2nd round before you start talking **** cuz soon you guys are going to be in the same position as us

Lol okay.

Fnom11
05-21-2012, 02:07 PM
do you know anything about the buisness side of things well my friend let me enlighten you ITS CALLED CAPSPACEi'm not saying we will get great value but because of this new cba teams are going to be reluctant to spend alot of money idk even know if the knicks would do it but we could get some good players from a team just looking for a salary dump

He has 4 more years I'm pretty sure.

flatbush knicks
05-21-2012, 02:09 PM
why would CP3 beg to play for the Knicks when his team gets knocked out, but Melo won't beg to play for another team when the Knicks get knocked out?
well the differce is it was melo vs the heat nobody was healthy cp3 had his whole team and lost no excuses ther maybe the coach but come on and i can see cp3 going east and getting out of the crazy west

Kashmir13579
05-21-2012, 02:11 PM
I need to see more of Lin to buy the top 10 PG thing. Defensively especially..
I'm not crowning him top 10 at this point. I am predicting he will be next year. His skillset is special, not something you see on the reg.. His marketability also insures he's gonna get to the line 6-7 times a game. I'm not that naive...


I also like Woodson, but he has a limited offensive playbook with an offensive oriented roster, outside Shumpert (going to miss most if not the majority of next season) and Chandler. Amare's knees will get worse and worse. As long as they buy into team defense, a 5 man unit doesn't need more than a couple of defensive players on the floor at any given time.. Don't forget Jared Jeffries is basically a lock to return.. Josh Harrelson is also an underrated post-defender. I get that Woodson is a horrible offensive coach, thats why having the ball in Jeremy Lin's hands next year is so important. He can make things happen, plain and simple.


Fans have been waiting for Melo to show up consistently for 82+ for 2 seasons now. I just personally think the Knicks kind of hamstringed themselves, and for them to be able to challenge the Heat, Bulls, and Pacers, they need unexpected contributions from guys you don't expect a lot out of For what its worth, 'Melo hasn't played two 82+ seasons with the Knicks, and he played great to close out last season... This year he was putrid... But you could've just said that fans have been waiting for 'Melo to show up consistently his whole career lol. You know i'm not a 'Melo apologist though, hopefully.

The thing is, he has no choice but to perform. The garden faithful will give him the Marbury treatment if he doesn't, they want what they were promised. Next season is absolutely do-or-die time for 'Melo in NY.

flatbush knicks
05-21-2012, 02:11 PM
He has 4 more years I'm pretty sure.

nah its 3 see were not in that bad of a position unless our dum ***** owner overpays for lin

TheNumber37
05-21-2012, 02:13 PM
He has played in the west his whole career. With Average teams, this Clipper team was injured.

Punk
05-21-2012, 02:18 PM
I need to see more of Lin to buy the top 10 PG thing. Defensively especially.

You can checkout every game he played in as a starter. You can see how he can develop into a Top 15 PG over time.

Defensively will be based off his knee. He's already had a Patella injury and now the MCL injury.


I also like Woodson, but he has a limited offensive playbook with an offensive oriented roster, outside Shumpert (going to miss most if not the majority of next season) and Chandler. Amare's knees will get worse and worse.

Woodson's plays were much better when Lin was running the show. Once, he went down it became predictable offense. The team's pace and offense became 80% fastbreak basketball off turnovers and rebounds under Woodson and once Lin went out it became more halfcourt offense because Baron Davis is too slow to create anything for the team. So, It's a little unfair to criticize Woodson.

Amare's knees are perfectly fine. But his IQ certainly is not.


Fans have been waiting for Melo to show up consistently for 82+ for 8 seasons now. I just personally think the Knicks kind of hamstringed themselves, and for them to be able to challenge the Heat, Bulls, and Pacers, they need unexpected contributions from guys you don't expect a lot out of.

Fans? He hasn't been here for 8 years and he has been pretty consistent over his years in Denver. People quickly forget and he was hurt for the beginning of the season, so it's really really unfair to say that.

Logical NY fans understand he played under a joke of a coach for his 1st season this year with D'antoni. Under a defensively oriented coach the team goes 18-6.


The Knicks are relevant again, and it could happen. But the Amare deal is a franchise killer when you have a 2nd tier star also locked up for so much dough.
Sad part is many fans refuse to address Amare's contract or play but throw the blame at everyone else.

Outsiders might think the blame is on Melo or someone else but from a guy who watched this team for 82 games last season and 66 + games this season, Amare is the biggest cancer.

He played to the level of his contract for 1 season to prove doubters wrong and soon as Melo came, he took a vacation and he became lazy all across the board.

flatbush knicks
05-21-2012, 02:18 PM
even at full health they are not beating the thunder or spurs unless they find a gem in the draft or pull off a great trade they dont have any closers

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 02:21 PM
do you know anything about the buisness side of things well my friend let me enlighten you ITS CALLED CAPSPACEi'm not saying we will get great value but because of this new cba teams are going to be reluctant to spend alot of money idk even know if the knicks would do it but we could get some good players from a team just looking for a salary dump

No, I appreciate it, but I have the business side of it under control. So, you are trying to tell me any team in the NBA would take on 3 years, $62 million, for cap relief in the summer of 2015?

Amare isn't a salary dump for 3 years dude. Nobody is taking his deal on, for a rapidly declining big who doesn't guard anyone or rebound making $20+ million a year.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 02:30 PM
I'm not crowning him top 10 at this point. I am predicting he will be next year. His skillset is special, not something you see on the reg.. His marketability also insures he's gonna get to the line 6-7 times a game. I'm not that naive...

I know you are a big fan of his, and I liked what I saw too. But I need to see more on both ends to be convinced, that's all. I am sure you understand. Same with Pekovic for the Wolves.


As long as they buy into team defense, a 5 man unit doesn't need more than a couple of defensive players on the floor at any given time.. Don't forget Jared Jeffries is basically a lock to return.. Josh Harrelson is also an underrated post-defender. I get that Woodson is a horrible offensive coach, thats why having the ball in Jeremy Lin's hands next year is so important. He can make things happen, plain and simple.

Where has Melo or Stat ever shown they will buy into a defensive scheme though? Jeffries gives up any benefit he supplies on defense when he is on offense. Again with the Lin deal haha, I admire your confidence in your evaluation. I hope your right, I like the kid.


For what its worth, 'Melo hasn't played two 82+ seasons with the Knicks, and he played great to close out last season... This year he was putrid... But you could've just said that fans have been waiting for 'Melo to show up consistently his whole career lol. You know i'm not a 'Melo apologist though, hopefully.

Oh I know you're not, after my re-education program I put you through :p. And yes, He is a frustrating player capable of looking like one of the game's best for a 10-15 game period, then taking games off.



The thing is, he has no choice but to perform. The garden faithful will give him the Marbury treatment if he doesn't, they want what they were promised. Next season is absolutely do-or-die time for 'Melo in NY.

Sure he has a choice. It's not like everyone who has played in a Knicks uniform has played their tail off because they are a Knick. I doubt Melo considers this, but yes, its either time for him to make sacrifices to his game for the betterment of his team, or be this generations next wasted talent.

Donuts365
05-21-2012, 02:34 PM
rajon rondo is not the best pg in the league no

deron williams say hello

d will best pg in the league lmaooo

flatbush knicks
05-21-2012, 02:38 PM
No, I appreciate it, but I have the business side of it under control. So, you are trying to tell me any team in the NBA would take on 3 years, $62 million, for cap relief in the summer of 2015?

Amare isn't a salary dump for 3 years dude. Nobody is taking his deal on, for a rapidly declining big who doesn't guard anyone or rebound making $20+ million a year.
nah if im not mistaken you said what team in the final year of amares contract would trade for him which might be the knicks only hope at rebuilding on the fly if amare doesn't get his game back

Kashmir13579
05-21-2012, 02:39 PM
I know you are a big fan of his, and I liked what I saw too. But I need to see more on both ends to be convinced, that's all. I am sure you understand. Same with Pekovic for the Wolves.



Where has Melo or Stat ever shown they will buy into a defensive scheme though? Jeffries gives up any benefit he supplies on defense when he is on offense. Again with the Lin deal haha, I admire your confidence in your evaluation. I hope your right, I like the kid.



Oh I know you're not, after my re-education program I put you through :p. And yes, He is a frustrating player capable of looking like one of the game's best for a 10-15 game period, then taking games off.




Sure he has a choice. It's not like everyone who has played in a Knicks uniform has played their tail off because they are a Knick. I doubt Melo considers this, but yes, its either time for him to make sacrifices to his game for the betterment of his team, or be this generations next wasted talent.

haha i could go all day with you on this... :D You're easily my favorite poster to debate with, Hawk. I fear we're going so far off-topic in this thread so lets save it for the inevitable offseason Knick threads LOL

The bolded part: :love: Thanks!! lol

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 02:52 PM
nah if im not mistaken you said what team in the final year of amares contract would trade for him which might be the knicks only hope at rebuilding on the fly if amare doesn't get his game back


Please tell me why anyone would trade for Amare before the trade deadline in the last year of his deal.

Read correctly, I am asking why anyone would trade for Amare before 2/2015. So the salary dump you are talking about doesn't do squat for the Knicks anytime soon.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 02:55 PM
haha i could go all day with you on this... :D You're easily my favorite poster to debate with, Hawk. I fear we're going so far off-topic in this thread so lets save it for the inevitable offseason Knick threads LOL

The bolded part: :love: Thanks!! lol

you mean when they sign a whatever role player and a thread with 873 responses happens? hahaha kidding, kidding.

A much better time to be a Knicks fan then it has been in 15 years, really all that is important. Anytime you get to the playoffs with the firepower the Knicks potentially have if they can get their **** together, you have a chance.

Kashmir13579
05-21-2012, 02:59 PM
you mean when they sign a whatever role player and a thread with 873 responses happens? hahaha kidding, kidding.
Yes..

A much better time to be a Knicks fan then it has been in 15 years, really all that is important. Anytime you get to the playoffs with the firepower the Knicks potentially have if they can get their **** together, you have a chance.
and yes...

b@llhog24
05-21-2012, 03:29 PM
I think Chris Paul doesn't catch the flack because he's a likable guy who does things in the community and is a hard worker. He cares about winning and everyone can like a guy who's all those things.

I can't imagine that it's because of the teams he's had? People were lining up to take it to Lebron, but Lebron in his best Cleveland years had a Shaq who was closing in on retirement and Mo Williams. No better than Paul.

It's tough to win when you don't have any players around you of equal talent. I think Kobe is finding out that the hard way now and Chris Paul is starting to find that out. Griffin is a good player and a great athlete, but he doesn't have the tools to be a star yet. So, Paul goes from the Hornets, where he was the number 1 option and had no teammates of equal skill/ability to the Clippers, which is another team where he has no one of equal talent/ability...
^Winner.


your crazy some poor sucker will trade for amare even if we dont get cp3 which unless he signs his extension idk where else he is going to go an amare if not now then in 2 years he is very tradable and dont get me wrong if we sign nash all you haters will be eating your words

Lol nobody is trading for Amare, its a longshot.


worry about your own team fam and getting out the 2nd round before you start talking **** cuz soon you guys are going to be in the same position as us

His team is actually in the 2nd round while yours isn't. :rolleyes:


well the differce is it was melo vs the heat nobody was healthy cp3 had his whole team and lost no excuses ther maybe the coach but come on and i can see cp3 going east and getting out of the crazy west

:no:

Losoway
05-21-2012, 04:45 PM
not another clippers thread

CHRIS PAUL IS CONSIDER TOP BECAUSE WHEN HE IS HEALTHY HE IS BY FAR THE BEST PLAYER ON THE FLOOR

JasonJohnHorn
05-21-2012, 05:19 PM
Until this season the best player CP3 has had on his team has likely been David West.

What do you expect a guy to do when David West is all he has to work with... even this season, Girffen, the second best player on his team, is young and inexperienced. He turned a lottery team into a playoff team that won in the first round. That is a huge step forward for the Clippers and it is because of CP3.

If CP3 had players around him like LBJ and Wade and Bosh or Kobe or Gasol or Bynum... THEN it would be fair to call him out... but look what he's had to work with...

CP3 was the MVP this season in my book... he's always helped teams overachieve...
He is the best point guard in the league... well... him and Rose are on equal standing in my book...

Longhornfan1234
05-21-2012, 07:20 PM
Rono is better than CP3. He is in more control of his team... which to me is the number one job of a point guard.

kblo247
05-21-2012, 07:22 PM
Knicks fans need to face reality. You are looking at your team for the next 3 years.

Wouldn't discount Pau for Amare bro. The Knicks could get the flexibility and a passive big to play off Melo. LA could get an assertive scorer, name value, and they have Vitti who is much better than the Knicks training staff.

I can see it happening with how both bigs seemed to have capped off their years

jrm2054
05-21-2012, 07:22 PM
Until this season the best player CP3 has had on his team has likely been David West.

What do you expect a guy to do when David West is all he has to work with... even this season, Girffen, the second best player on his team, is young and inexperienced. He turned a lottery team into a playoff team that won in the first round. That is a huge step forward for the Clippers and it is because of CP3.

If CP3 had players around him like LBJ and Wade and Bosh or Kobe or Gasol or Bynum... THEN it would be fair to call him out... but look what he's had to work with...

CP3 was the MVP this season in my book... he's always helped teams overachieve...
He is the best point guard in the league... well... him and Rose are on equal standing in my book...
This minus the rose part I would add more but I'm on my phone

bagwell368
05-21-2012, 07:25 PM
Why do you think that is for a player coined the best pg in the league? Why isn't he called out like LeBron or labeled the Melo to Deron? Why is he excused for being hurt yet winners like Kobe or Wade aren't when they haven't delivered with talent in the playoffs? Does he own the right to be called the best pg in the league truly when he hasn't elevated his teams like Nash or Kidd?

DISCUSS!

It could be that Paul isn't the same self obsessed clown James is. After all nobody told James to say he'd be happy winning 7 titles.

Melo is selfish player that gets and deserves no pity.

Sounds like the same nonsense that was going on in the TD/KG thread the last week. Blaming a guy for his team. Go look at the teams he's played for, now plug in some guys from better teams.

This is like a tabloid post. Really sad.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 07:29 PM
Wouldn't discount Pau for Amare bro. The Knicks could get the flexibility and a passive big to play off Melo. LA could get an assertive scorer, name value, and they have Vitti who is much better than the Knicks training staff.

I can see it happening with how both bigs seemed to have capped off their years

I don't care how much you think Gasol is wearing out his welcome. He is skilled, with a healthy body. No way they flip him for a PF who relies on athletic ability with a failing knee.

BobbyHillSwag
05-21-2012, 07:32 PM
It could be that Paul isn't the same self obsessed clown James is. After all nobody told James to say he'd be happy winning 7 titles.

Melo is selfish player that gets and deserves no pity.

Sounds like the same nonsense that was going on in the TD/KG thread the last week. Blaming a guy for his team. Go look at the teams he's played for, now plug in some guys from better teams.

This is like a tabloid post. Really sad.

Melo is not a selfish player at all, you're just tripping

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 07:34 PM
Melo is not a selfish player at all, you're just tripping

I love your username, but so far you are losing me. You crap on Wade, yet stick up for chucker mcgee...

kblo247
05-21-2012, 07:38 PM
I don't care how much you think Gasol is wearing out his welcome. He is skilled, with a healthy body. No way they flip him for a PF who relies on athletic ability with a failing knee.

The thing is Vitti is a better trainer. He came up with regimens to get Kobe and Andrew thru the season with their knees and admittedly had one for Paul in place. They were willing to trade Pau for a PG without a meniscus. They would trade him for Amare just so Jimmy can have his first splash without Jerry holding his hand and because they want a team of guys who can realistically get 20, while Pau has refused to be aggressive despite his teammates, coaches, and even Mitch asking him to be.

Amare also is still more mobile and athletic than Pau. All hey would have him do is spread the floor with a j which has left Pau the last two postseasons, and then to score with the second units in the 2nd and 4th while Kobe, Ron, and Andrew sit. That is where LA has gottent thumped vs Denver and OKC as well, so they changed the rotation and wore Bynum and Artest out.

khaleesi
05-21-2012, 07:39 PM
I don't care how much you think Gasol is wearing out his welcome. He is skilled, with a healthy body. No way they flip him for a PF who relies on athletic ability with a failing knee.

Agree bad trade for the Lakers but if Amare is breaking down what do you say about DRose and D12 at this point?

DRose will never be the same and his game will be directly affected by it. D12 same story.

I point this out b/c if Amare is a health risk then what about the others "stars" in the league with injury issue.

Only indestrucble star I see is LeBron. The rest are all suspect.

Punk
05-21-2012, 07:44 PM
I find it comical that likability is why a player gets excused. That's freaking BS and if that is the truth it goes to show how idiotic fans truly are.

kblo247
05-21-2012, 07:45 PM
The health of Melos roster have always been over exaggerated to an extreme level.

He had a healthy Nene and Kenyon for one playoff run and made the WCF. Kenyon was out with multiple knee injuries. Nene was out with knee injuries and cancer. Leonard tore his Achilles. Billups went down. Even in NY, he hasn't had a ready to play Amare vs Boston and Miami.

Melo gets his teams to the dance more than Paul has gotten his squads, does heavier lifting, takes more of a pounding, and yet still gets more blame despite winning more.

It's silly to me as people want to say but Paul lost to the better team so it's okay and he doesn't need to be blamed, yet Melo lost to

- 2 first round losses to NBA Champs (Spurs X 2)
-1 WCF loss to NBA Champ (Lakers)
-1 first round loss to NBA Finalist (Lakers)
-1 first round loss to WC Finalist (Timberwolves)
-1 loss to a better Clipper team on a poorly built team with an injured Martin
-1 first round loss to even opponent (Utah) after Billups went down

It really comes down to hes not a likable and smile for the camera type personality wise IMO because as a player, Melo has always led his teams better IMO when it comes to competing in playoff contention personally

kblo247
05-21-2012, 07:47 PM
I find it comical that likability is why a player gets excused. That's freaking BS and if that is the truth it goes to show how idiotic fans truly are.

I think it's his size as much as anything else. He's so little that your average guy fan can relate to him. If he was the size of a Kidd, he wouldn't get the same pass IMO. It also is a double standard like you said IMO

Punk
05-21-2012, 07:50 PM
The health of Melos roster have always been over exaggerated to an extreme level.

He had a healthy Nene and Kenyon for one playoff run and made the WCF. Kenyon was out with multiple knee injuries. Nene was out with knee injuries and cancer. Leonard tore his Achilles. Billups went down. Even in NY, he hasn't had a ready to play Amare vs Boston and Miami.

Melo gets his teams to the dance more than Paul has gotten his squads, does heavier lifting, takes more of a pounding, and yet still gets more blame despite winning more.

It's silly to me as people want to say but Paul lost to the better team so it's okay and he doesn't need to be blamed, yet Melo lost to

- 2 first round losses to NBA Champs (Spurs X 2)
-1 WCF loss to NBA Champ (Lakers)
-1 first round loss to NBA Finalist (Lakers)
-1 first round loss to WC Finalist (Timberwolves)
-1 loss to a better Clipper team on a poorly built team with an injured Martin
-1 first round loss to even opponent (Utah) after Billups went down
Don't bother posting logic. Makes no difference here.

PhillyFaninLA
05-21-2012, 07:59 PM
Why do you think that is for a player coined the best pg in the league? Why isn't he called out like LeBron or labeled the Melo to Deron? Why is he excused for being hurt yet winners like Kobe or Wade aren't when they haven't delivered with talent in the playoffs? Does he own the right to be called the best pg in the league truly when he hasn't elevated his teams like Nash or Kidd?

DISCUSS!

First you are just bitter he is not a Laker.

Second it takes more then 1 guy to win a playoff series or have you forgotten its 5 on 5 and not 1 on 1.

5ass
05-21-2012, 08:02 PM
Agree bad trade for the Lakers but if Amare is breaking down what do you say about DRose and D12 at this point?

DRose will never be the same and his game will be directly affected by it. D12 same story.

I point this out b/c if Amare is a health risk then what about the others "stars" in the league with injury issue.

Only indestrucble star I see is LeBron. The rest are all suspect.

are u crazy? this is drose and d12s first major injury. Amare has had serious injuries on both knees and his back. Not to mention hes older than them.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 08:04 PM
The thing is Vitti is a better trainer. He came up with regimens to get Kobe and Andrew thru the season with their knees and admittedly had one for Paul in place. They were willing to trade Pau for a PG without a meniscus. They would trade him for Amare just so Jimmy can have his first splash without Jerry holding his hand and because they want a team of guys who can realistically get 20, while Pau has refused to be aggressive despite his teammates, coaches, and even Mitch asking him to be.

Amare also is still more mobile and athletic than Pau. All hey would have him do is spread the floor with a j which has left Pau the last two postseasons, and then to score with the second units in the 2nd and 4th while Kobe, Ron, and Andrew sit. That is where LA has gottent thumped vs Denver and OKC as well, so they changed the rotation and wore Bynum and Artest out.

Amare is more mobile for now. He is also far less skilled, not as big, and his knee had microfracture surgery. He simply won't age as well as Pau, I will be you anything.

Anyways, the Lakers are only moving Pau for cap relief or young players.

Hawkeye15
05-21-2012, 08:06 PM
Agree bad trade for the Lakers but if Amare is breaking down what do you say about DRose and D12 at this point?

DRose will never be the same and his game will be directly affected by it. D12 same story.

I point this out b/c if Amare is a health risk then what about the others "stars" in the league with injury issue.

Only indestrucble star I see is LeBron. The rest are all suspect.

Rose unknown. His game is pure athleticism (sorry Bulls fans, it is). But we are so far advanced with the ACL, I see no reason for a 22 year old kid to not recover 100%. Dwight is the most durable big of the past 8 years. He had minor back surgery. He is of no injury concern going forward.

Do you understand what microfracture surgery to the knee is? Its a LOT different then a routine ACL surgery, or out-patient back operation where the dude leaves on his own when your done.

Did you actually just give LeBron praise for anything? Amazed

kblo247
05-21-2012, 08:29 PM
Amare is more mobile for now. He is also far less skilled, not as big, and his knee had microfracture surgery. He simply won't age as well as Pau, I will be you anything.

Anyways, the Lakers are only moving Pau for cap relief or young players.

Tbh I rather get Noah for Pau or a Josh Smith, but I'm just saying I can see a crazy Amare splash.

LakersIn5
05-21-2012, 08:54 PM
Your right the bashing James gets for not winning a ring yet Paul not getting the same criticism. That 08' Hornets teams was better then most teams James had in Cleveland yet LeBron took his team deep in the playoffs.

the cavs would have lost to the spurs too in 08 like the hornets.

StinkEye
05-21-2012, 10:18 PM
your crazy some poor sucker will trade for amare even if we dont get cp3 which unless he signs his extension idk where else he is going to go an amare if not now then in 2 years he is very tradable and dont get me wrong if we sign nash all you haters will be eating your words

how many times did you have to redo grade 4?

Chronz
05-21-2012, 11:10 PM
The health of Melos roster have always been over exaggerated to an extreme level.
You mean underplayed?


He had a healthy Nene and Kenyon for one playoff run and made the WCF.
Well its not as if he was without a quality bigman to replace him, when he didnt have one of those guys he usually had Camby or Birdman.


Melo gets his teams to the dance more than Paul has gotten his squads, does heavier lifting, takes more of a pounding, and yet still gets more blame despite winning more.
I disagree 100%, he has made more playoff appearances because he has had more support and stayed healthier (+ durability so thats a credit to his game but its also in part because doesnt do as much heavy lifting and only plays 1 end).


It's silly to me as people want to say but Paul lost to the better team so it's okay and he doesn't need to be blamed, yet Melo lost to

- 2 first round losses to NBA Champs (Spurs X 2)
-1 WCF loss to NBA Champ (Lakers)
-1 first round loss to NBA Finalist (Lakers)
-1 first round loss to WC Finalist (Timberwolves)
-1 loss to a better Clipper team on a poorly built team with an injured Martin
-1 first round loss to even opponent (Utah) after Billups went down
Its the way he loses that really damns him. And your lying on some of those.

Utah was NOT an even opponent, they were WRECKED by injuries (Okur/AK47 were really hurt and Boozer played through minor injuries). Denver played without its Coach, which to me indicates how important he was on top of Melo's inability to be a coach on the court unlike CP3.

His loss to the Clippers was a joke of a performance, I was there live when he let Ross and Mobley get in his head. Clippers had the better team but that doesnt exonerate such horrendous play. I mean he played worse than an injured CP3 in a much worse situation than this one.


It really comes down to hes not a likable and smile for the camera type personality wise IMO because as a player, Melo has always led his teams better IMO when it comes to competing in playoff contention personally
Depends on the person but that literally has no barring on my stance of him. We just saw CP3 lead his overmatched+injured team despite his injuries. If it wasnt for his injuries mounting he may have been able to do more against the Spurs but when he was healthier he led the most improbable comeback in NBA history. He just had a year in which the Clippers routinely made comebacks ALL year and his efficiency in 4th quarters was unrivaled.


Thats the difference between them, CP3 does more with less due to his ability to close and be a coach on the court.

flatbush knicks
05-21-2012, 11:19 PM
how many times did you have to redo grade 4?
idk ask ur moms she was ther with me

Sportfan
05-21-2012, 11:20 PM
It's funny because people say its the players around him....Tyson Chandler has become the league's top defensive players and David West has stepped up as the 1b option for the Pacers this year/postseason. Peja was still a good 16+ shooter off the wing, and guys like Bonzi Wells and Peterson were coming off the bench. Deron plays with a ****** team this year and people say he's not a top 3 PG, i love paul he's the best PG regardless imo, but I agree with the OP that Chris Paul is the golden boy of PSD, never gets flask

Cracka2HI!
05-22-2012, 01:04 AM
It just might have something to do with the fact the Clippers won 40 games in 66 this year and 32 in 82 last year and New Orleans turned into a last place team. :shrug:

Hustlenomics
05-22-2012, 11:52 AM
^ and he still got swept

willabeast77
05-22-2012, 02:47 PM
Chris Paul shouldn't be getting much blame for losing to the Spurs. The Spurs were clearly the favorites and his team wasn't at full strength. I still think it was impressive that they were able to beat Memphis in game 7 despite their injuries. Next season, they'll get better and very well could be contenders in the West.