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View Full Version : Thunder, 2013 Summer: Who do you resign, Harden or Ibaka (and couple of Free Agents)



LTBaByyy
05-16-2012, 10:38 PM
Both will be restricted free agents, Harden will probably be a Max contract and Ibaka will probably get 10 or 11 a year.

Do you:

1) Match a Max contract for Harden (Who has Dwayne Wade potential) and have no cap space or big man

2) Or sign Ibaka and have more balanced team with flexibility to sign other players

airronijordan
05-16-2012, 10:40 PM
Im probably one of the few that would rather keep Ibaka

MonroeFAN
05-16-2012, 10:42 PM
We already discussed this earlier in the season.

Most said Harden, I think they're absolutely foolish.

Swashcuff
05-16-2012, 10:46 PM
This post season will give us a better idea as to who would be the smarter choice. As of right now I'd probably go with Harden. The PF position is the deepest/second deepest in the league. A SG of Harden's calibre with his ceiling isn't easy to come by. He's also the perfect compliment to Durant and Westbrook.

Gibby
05-16-2012, 10:47 PM
cant they sign both of them, since their retaining them.

LTBaByyy
05-16-2012, 10:49 PM
Harden has Wade potential but not with the Thunder

He needs to get out of OKC. Either be Jason Terry for Thunder or Wade for another team an be a starter/all star

Swashcuff
05-16-2012, 10:52 PM
Harden has Wade potential but not with the Thunder

He needs to get out of OKC. Either be Jason Terry for Thunder or Wade for another team an be a starter/all star

Harden is going to be way more than a Jason Terry type. He's more like a Manu type and if he's able to stay on the court and learns to play D like Manu (who is extremely underrated in that regard) he can potentially be better than Manu was.

29$JerZ
05-16-2012, 10:58 PM
Harden

You'll find more defensive PF's than great Shooting Guards.

Plus he fits perfectly with Westbrook and Durant. I don't think Harden will get a near Max contract however.

LTBaByyy
05-16-2012, 11:01 PM
Harden is going to be way more than a Jason Terry type. He's more like a Manu type and if he's able to stay on the court and learns to play D like Manu (who is extremely underrated in that regard) he can potentially be better than Manu was.

Yeah true, but Manu had the best PF ever Duncan down low

If they match Harden contract, they will have Collison and Perkins down low for a few years, with even worse bench big men

That's not good

LTBaByyy
05-16-2012, 11:04 PM
Ibaka is not just a defensive PF, the dude plays like Anthony Davis

Blocks, mid range jumper, dunks, post moves (this year)

You can say thing about finding a scoring guard, plenty of those

If you sign Ibaka you will have more cap space to sign some bench players

naps
05-16-2012, 11:08 PM
Since both of them are restricted I am sure I would match both even if I was going way over the luxury threshold. This core can win multiple championships. You don't wanna break it up c'mon now.

But for the fun, if I had to pick one between the two it's a no-brainer for me. Harden is my pick. I know I can keep watching a similar version of my favorite player when he retires :)
Ibaka is great but replacing a PF is easier. How many great shooting guards we have in the league? That's right. Not many.

Swashcuff
05-16-2012, 11:12 PM
Ibaka is not just a defensive PF, the dude plays like Anthony Davis

Blocks, mid range jumper, dunks, post moves (this year)

You can say thing about finding a scoring guard, plenty of those

If you sign Ibaka you will have more cap space to sign some bench players

Actually until he can prove that he's a legit threat on both ends of the floor he's a defensive PF. He also doesn't rebound very well (something I'm confident he'll develop) for a player with his ability. At his very best Ibaka will be a Marcus Camby to this team. Harden would be Manu. Personally I'd take Manu over Camby down the road any day of the week.

Yeah there are plenty scoring guards but none of them are ever going to be as good as Harden has been for the Thunder thus far.

Swashcuff
05-16-2012, 11:14 PM
Yeah true, but Manu had the best PF ever Duncan down low

What's the point?


If they match Harden contract, they will have Collison and Perkins down low for a few years, with even worse bench big men

Amnesty?


That's not good

Collison really isn't a bad player. He'd be a quality starter for that team.

DODGERS&LAKERS
05-16-2012, 11:16 PM
I would keep Harden. Better player

Hawkeye15
05-16-2012, 11:17 PM
This post season will give us a better idea as to who would be the smarter choice. As of right now I'd probably go with Harden. The PF position is the deepest/second deepest in the league. A SG of Harden's calibre with his ceiling isn't easy to come by. He's also the perfect compliment to Durant and Westbrook.

correct. Its much easier to land an active PF who can create opportunities, its another to get an elite SG in a league with such pedestrian SG's after the top couple or three.

He is the Ginoboli of the Thunder.

eibbor
05-16-2012, 11:28 PM
Ibaka without question. Harden needs to start somewhere. The guy is legit... Beard and all

BullsFTW
05-16-2012, 11:28 PM
I hope the Bulls make cap room to sign James Harden

meloman1592
05-16-2012, 11:29 PM
they'll keep both...

eibbor
05-16-2012, 11:35 PM
I hope the Bulls make cap room to sign James Harden

Is SG such a priority when Rose, sadly, being out for maybe all of next year?

mdm692
05-16-2012, 11:39 PM
Ibaka for 2 reasons. 1 so they have more flexibility and balance all around. And 2 so harden can sign with the suns(homerism :P)

RonE Coleman
05-16-2012, 11:58 PM
If I was OKC I would keep Harden and draft someone like Festus Ezeli this year

Corey
05-17-2012, 12:17 AM
Amnesty Perk and keep both.

Baller1
05-17-2012, 03:09 AM
Amnesty Perk and keep both.

Bingo.

Which I think Presti will do.

b@llhog24
05-17-2012, 03:59 AM
I hope the Bulls make cap room to sign James Harden
:drool:

lkingratedr
05-17-2012, 04:58 AM
Send the amnesty Perkins way sign both draft trade or sign a good center ...Perkins to me is horrible

Toxeryll
05-17-2012, 05:07 AM
no brainer, keep harden

Toxeryll
05-17-2012, 05:08 AM
Amnesty Perk and keep both.

hmm, didnt think about that, good idea

LTBaByyy
05-17-2012, 05:11 AM
The Thunder can not afford Durant, Westbrook, Harden (Next contract), Ibaka (Next Contract), Collison, plus the other players to fill out team. Yes I am not including Perkins (Amnesty)

They would have to pay a SHITTTTTT load of money each season for being wayyyyy over cap

That's the exact reason there is a new CBA

LTBaByyy
05-17-2012, 05:22 AM
Durant makes 17 mil
Westbrook makes 16 mil
Ibaka will make 11 mil next contract
Harden will make 16 mil next contract

That's 60 already and I didn't even include Perkins (Which y'all say will get the Amnesty)!!!!!! You have to add Collison 3 mil and 10 more players!!

Be logical they have to choose

Kevj77
05-17-2012, 05:27 AM
Bingo.

Which I think Presti will do.Honestly everyone keeps talking about Presti like it is up to him. The Owner will decide if they can keep both it is his money. Some things aren't up to the GM.

Look at the Lakers or the Heat. Teams can afford at most 3 max contract players and the rest of the team are scrubs. It gets harder to replace talent once your team is hopelessly over the cap with only end of the first round picks in the draft. This isn't a bad thing it means your team is among the elite, but it is reality.

The Thunder will keep Harden and lose Ibaka, Perkins and their whole bench eventually. Especially under the new CBA.

The Thunder will still be a damn good team with that core, but that is the reality, no team can't afford 3 max contracts (someone will offer Harden near the max), Ibaka (who will get quality big man money 10-12 mil) and a bench.

It is the hard truth.

LTBaByyy
05-17-2012, 05:33 AM
The smart thing to do is keep Ibaka and sign 4 decent free agents

The thing to do for fans is sign Harden and you will be like Miami, big 3 and scrubs/vet minimum guys

Kevj77
05-17-2012, 05:43 AM
The smart thing to do is keep Ibaka and sign 4 decent free agents

The thing to do for fans is sign Harden and you will be like Miami, big 3 and scrubs/vet minimum guysI agree that the wave of the future will be having a Duo not a Big Three under the new CBA. Get a MJ/Pippen or Shaq/Kobe and use the extra money to actually have a decent supporting cast. Even still Ibaka will demand about 4-5 mil less than Harden on the open market. Ibaka will get quality big man money if he continues to play like he has.

LTBaByyy
05-17-2012, 05:49 AM
Im sorry but no one on the bench should make more than 12 million dollars seriously!

Harden needs to leave Okc and be a starter, he has Wade potential

Manu makes 12 million for crying out loud! You cant pay a guy 16 mil and him not be a starter

Sign Ibaka and 4 or 5 decent free agents to come off bench

Kevj77
05-17-2012, 05:56 AM
The thing people overlook is that KD might only earn 16 mil this year, but he gets yearly raises and so will every other player they sign. Eventually KD will be earning over 20 mil a year.

ackar
05-17-2012, 08:02 AM
As a Bulls fan resign the big man and maybe the Bulls will go into the luxury and get Harden :)...yeah I know I can dream.

tredigs
05-17-2012, 08:17 AM
Short answer? As a fan, who cares. I'll just enjoy the show and leave that up to the hundreds of factors that will factor in over the next couple years between them, Presti, injuries, team dynamic+success, willingness to take a cut, willingness of the organization to go over the cap, etc. etc.

Why is everyone so obsessed with playing armchair quarterback years in advance of something nobody can have a concrete opinion on yet? I'll just enjoy the show myself.

uprightciti
05-17-2012, 08:43 AM
they both have qualifying offers

if they get a championship this year
they will likely repeat next year

puts those two guys at max contract level in the summer of 2014 in there prime

both 25 years old with 2 potential championships!!!

16 million each to the highest bidder!

Carey
05-17-2012, 08:44 AM
The Thunder will get Harden locked up this summer, at the latest before the deadline to extend players of his tenure. Ibaka they'll give a great effort to see if they can work something out, possibly backloading the contract but it'll come down to him taking less then market value. Harden wont get to restricted free agency, but if Ibaka gets to RFA then he's probably gone. This is a special opportunity if you can keep both along with the core of KD, Russ, Thabo, Perk and Collison to be in the mix every year for the foreseeable future option and i think Presti and Co will exhaust every option to try to make that happen.

todu82
05-17-2012, 09:52 AM
Re-sign Ibaka and use the money from not signing Harden to add a couple of guys who can keep the Thunder winning for the rest of the decade.

boolish
05-17-2012, 10:13 AM
Harden over Ibaka. But I figure that OKC will find a way to keep both. If this team wins multiple titles as it looks likely over the next several years, I am sure the owner will consider it a great investment to pay lux tax.

btw Harden "needs to start" is not an argument to trade him. Teams don't do what's best for players. They do what's best for them. And Harden will start eventually when his defense improves. And even if he doesn't he plays over 30m a game and plays at the end of games. So focusing on whether he starts or not is looking at the wrong thing.

Small chance they trade him for a package that includes a very high draft pick or a legit scoring young BIG.

ShockerArt
05-17-2012, 10:23 AM
I would keep Harden. He has the higher ceiling and, like other people in here have already said, I think it's a lot easier to find a reasonable facsimile of Ibaka than to get another talented, fearless SG like Harden.

KnicksorBust
05-17-2012, 10:40 AM
After the Thunder fail to win the title again this year, you trade Westbrook for Kyle Lowry + Expirings/Picks. Maybe try and dump Cook. Then you can re-sign both Harden and Ibaka long-term and you build around that trio of Playmaker-Scorer-Big.

RaffyBoy
05-17-2012, 11:08 AM
Harden Ibaka and Perkins for Dwight and J-Rich? Makes most sense for both teams

Vinylman
05-17-2012, 11:35 AM
Durant makes 17 mil
Westbrook makes 16 mil
Ibaka will make 11 mil next contract
Harden will make 16 mil next contract

That's 60 already and I didn't even include Perkins (Which y'all say will get the Amnesty)!!!!!! You have to add Collison 3 mil and 10 more players!!

Be logical they have to choose

why?

They won't be into the LT until 2013/2014... if they sign both it will still be $1 for $1 for two years on LT. They will then have to decide because Durant and Westbrook will want more in 2016/2017...

lets use your numbers assuming perkins and a pick are traded for basically nothing...

big 4 $63 million ... i increased because of escalators
collison $2.5 million
2 guys at $3 million
7 guys at vet min or rookie deals (ave $1.5 million)

true payroll would $82 million

$1 for $1 tax will be roughly $11 million

now... that is the most it would be... however, you need to remember that the league not only subsidizes vet contracts but also makes them NOT subject to LT... this could drive the cost down further

so again, i don't believe it is cut and dry using your numbers that someone must go unless someone like Ibaka gets offered a max deal

RiLoc
05-17-2012, 01:37 PM
I've seen it reported that OKC intends to try to sign both. Source. (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--james-harden-s-eclectic-style-a-good-fit-for-thunder.html)

If I had to choose between Harden and Ibaka. I would choose Ibaka. Harden may be the better player, but Ibaka's size and skill set are harder to come by and is especially valuable in the playoffs.

Outside of his incredible defense, he can hit mid range shots, which is fantastic, because it helps the Thunder when the opposing defenses are sagging into the middle to cover the Thunder scorers driving to the hoop.

soonabooma
05-17-2012, 05:15 PM
Harden

You'll find more defensive PF's than great Shooting Guards.

Plus he fits perfectly with Westbrook and Durant. I don't think Harden will get a near Max contract however.

Not on Ibakas level. There are very few guys of his caliber. Scorers yes, but defenders no. He's a shot blocking, rebounding beast, he's high energy and a total game changer. You can't let a guy him go, he's too important to our team. As much as I love Harden, and as great as he is, Serge is more valuable. It won't matter anyway, we'll have em both for a very long time. All the people that are hoping we can't keep them both better not get their hopes up. Presti will make it all work, and it if means more money, then our owners will handle their business.

Raph12
05-17-2012, 06:45 PM
Harden, easily Harden... Ibaka is overrated (not saying he isn't a good player, he's just overrated by the media and all the fans).

xnick5757
05-17-2012, 07:10 PM
they can keep both without getting hit too hard by the cap tax, so I don't see any decision needing to be made

LJEATON26
05-17-2012, 10:44 PM
Both will be restricted free agents, Harden will probably be a Max contract and Ibaka will probably get 10 or 11 a year.

Do you:

1) Match a Max contract for Harden (Who has Dwayne Wade potential) and have no cap space or big man

2) Or sign Ibaka and have more balanced team with flexibility to sign other players

Sign them both. Don't resign Cook, Maynor. Don't pick up team option on Hayward or Aldriche. Perkin and Sefolosha are the type of players who will restructure their deals for the best of the team. If not amnesty Perk in the 13-14 season. Frontload Ibakas contract since he"ll make the least of the two and backload Hardens. Presti is a badass and will get it done.